Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 17th Feb 2007 18:39 UTC, submitted by anonymous
FreeBSD In this interview, Sam Leffler of the FreeBSD Project and FreeBSD Foundation and 'old school' hacker from the UC Berkeley Computer Systems Research Group (where the original Berkeley Software Distribution was developed) explains what the Foundation actually does, and the kind of work it has fostered. He also talks briefly about the current status of FreeBSD, and the degree to which Apple contributes to the project.
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Oh please.
by Finchwizard on Sat 17th Feb 2007 21:56 UTC
Finchwizard
Member since:
2006-02-01

I found the large number of Apple systems appalling. It seems that those who are not technically competent enough to install and configure desktop GNU/Linux distributions, or Google-savvy enough to read up on solutions to their problems, or friendly enough to ask an expert for help now prefer the proprietary lock-in of Apple instead of Microsoft.

I'm very tech savvy and use all OS's, but while I'm at work I definitely prefer my OS X machine, and it's certainly not because I'm technically incompetent

I love Linux and Opensource, don't get me wrong, but these guys complain about the arrogance and fanboyism of other OS's like Windows and OS X people, get real, it's as bad on every OS.

Some Distros are very hard to talk to in IRC and forums, and will tell you to get completely stuffed and go search google because they are sick of answering the same question.

Some people just want things to work a little easier, not because they can't do it, it's because they don't care, they want something that works.

Edited 2007-02-17 21:57

Reply Score: 5

RE: Oh please.
by Dirge on Sat 17th Feb 2007 23:14 UTC in reply to "Oh please."
Dirge Member since:
2005-07-14

I am tech savvy but not when it comes to Linux. I would definately choose Mac OS X over Linux for ease of use. Though I would like to learn more about the OS operating system we all know and love.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Oh please.
by ValiantSoul on Sun 18th Feb 2007 00:02 UTC in reply to "RE: Oh please."
ValiantSoul Member since:
2005-07-20

I have many years of experience with linux, FreeBSD, Macs, and Windows. My server is a FreeBSD machine, my laptops dual boot linux and OS X, and my primary machine runs OS X. I love using FreeBSD and linux, however when I want to be productive, I choose OS X. Like everyone else here, I'm obviously "tech savvy," but when I want to get something done I prefer something that just works.

Though I definatelly use FreeBSD for my server and would dual boot FreeBSD with OS X (as opposed to linux and OS X) on my laptops if they weren't PPC machines (or if FreeBSD were more stable on them and supported the hardware fully).

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Oh please.
by Finchwizard on Sun 18th Feb 2007 03:23 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Oh please."
Finchwizard Member since:
2006-02-01

I'm in the exact same position.

At work, I run Windows Servers, OS X server, and multiple FreeBSD servers.

For clients, I run OS X on a Macbook Pro for all my serious work, any multimedia work, networking work where it's easy to open a terminal and do what I need to do, works great with my iPod etc.

At home, I run Windows XP and Dual Boot with Vista, Windows is the only OS out there that is great for gaming, sure you can spend some time with Cedega etc, but when it comes down to it, it's going to run a lot better, and have far more options on Windows.

Every OS has it's place, each does a job better than the other, and I wouldn't change that, but some people just shoot down another OS because they don't like their practices or way of doing things.

Would I ever use Linux or FreeBSD as a Desktop machine? Probably not, because it's not suited to what I do, does that mean it's bad? No, not at all, it just doesn't have it's place on a desktop machine for me personally.

And honestly I get pretty disgusted with the shots taken at each OS's and packages.
There are times, that proprietary is better than Opensource, and there are times where OpenSource is just better than the Proprietary alternatives.

And after that outburst from Linus over Gnome, of which I think is disgusting after what he stands for and Opensource and being able to choose. Sure, he's a great pioneer and has and still does a lot of great things, but his reaction over something because he doesn't like it is enough to put myself off Opensource with an attitude like that.

Hopefully one day, people will get enough brains to figure out there's a place for everything.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Oh please.
by Doc Pain on Sun 18th Feb 2007 04:09 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Oh please."
Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

"At work, I run Windows Servers, OS X server, and multiple FreeBSD servers."

Nearly the same case here: FreeBSD and OpenBSD servers, along with Solaris.

"For clients, I run OS X on a Macbook Pro for all my serious work, any multimedia work, networking work where it's easy to open a terminal and do what I need to do, works great with my iPod etc."

I'd like to do the same, but cannot afford it at the moment. So I'll stay with several FreeBSD and Linux clients.

"At home, I run Windows XP and Dual Boot with Vista, Windows is the only OS out there that is great for gaming, sure you can spend some time with Cedega etc, but when it comes down to it, it's going to run a lot better, and have far more options on Windows."

That's okay, but for gaming I'd choose a PS3. :-)

"Every OS has it's place, each does a job better than the other, and I wouldn't change that, but some people just shoot down another OS because they don't like their practices or way of doing things."

You're completely right. The selection of the OS should be done in regards of the goal to achieve with it - and not be lead by marketing (or propaganda), social infrastructure or whatever.

"Would I ever use Linux or FreeBSD as a Desktop machine? Probably not, because it's not suited to what I do, does that mean it's bad? No, not at all, it just doesn't have it's place on a desktop machine for me personally."

Which does not imply that it could be (and, in fact, is) different for other ones.

"There are times, that proprietary is better than Opensource, and there are times where OpenSource is just better than the Proprietary alternatives."

Personally, I prefer open source solutions, but I agree, for some things (especially for commercial purposes) proprietary solutions are okay.

"Sure, [Linus is] a great pioneer and has and still does a lot of great things, but his reaction over something because he doesn't like it is enough to put myself off Opensource with an attitude like that."

Wasn't Linus the one who refused to use something like CVS? Or CVS in fact? Which means that CVS is bad, for stupid geeks only? Like GNOME? :-)

"Hopefully one day, people will get enough brains to figure out there's a place for everything."

Except for criminality, for dishonest intentions, for immoral behaviour or judging, and, of course, for intolerance.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Oh please.
by butters on Sun 18th Feb 2007 04:09 UTC in reply to "Oh please."
butters Member since:
2005-07-08

I found the large number of Apple systems appalling. It seems that those who are not technically competent enough to install and configure desktop GNU/Linux distributions, or Google-savvy enough to read up on solutions to their problems, or friendly enough to ask an expert for help now prefer the proprietary lock-in of Apple instead of Microsoft.

I'd like to clarify that these are Jem Matzan's words, not anyone with connections to FreeBSD or any flavor of Linux. I was taken aback when I read this, since Jem is usually pretty good with his choice of words. He could have expressed the same idea without using "appalling" or "competent."

There were a lot of PowerBooks at SCALE. I would say that this is more disappointing or unexpected than appalling, and that these attendees are more affluent than technically incompetent or even lazy. Simply put, if you've got money to burn on specialized hardware, periodic OS updates, and third-party applications, then there is no compelling reason for an end-user to use a Linux laptop instead of a PowerBook.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Oh please.
by Valour on Sun 18th Feb 2007 06:10 UTC in reply to "RE: Oh please."
Valour Member since:
2005-07-08

Appalling perhaps was not the right word.... maybe "disappointing." I think I'll change it. Anyway, this quote is not even taken from the linked article. I really think OSNews needs better moderation; it seems like every discussion gets derailed permanently because someone in the first few posts says something off-topic and antagonistic, and then everyone responds to it. What's the point of having these discussion areas if they are no longer here to discuss the article, but just to attack and riposte?

The interview was great -- this guy is one of the original BSD hackers, responsible for the 4.2-BSD release. Many of us are probably aware of the FreeBSD Foundation, but how many know what it does? This article tells you.

Reply Score: 4

BSD License
by vermaden on Sat 17th Feb 2007 23:31 UTC
vermaden
Member since:
2006-11-18

You said Linux has corporate sponsors. Has Apple ever contributed anything to FreeBSD in terms of either money or support, or code?

SL: Yeah, Apple's given stuff back. Audit support and a lot of other security-oriented work has gone on in collaboration, both in terms of Apple funding developers and also in sharing work. (...)


A little quote for all those nitpickers about BSD license.

Reply Score: 5

FreeBSD
by SK8T on Sun 18th Feb 2007 19:38 UTC
SK8T
Member since:
2006-06-01

I just like FreeBSD!
(I just contributed a bit money to them).

I'm using a Mac and so I see every day what it can do! (My mac has only 350 Mhz G4, but therefor it's impressiv fast).

And I lke FreeBSD itself. It's running on my PC.

Reply Score: 3

Thank you FreeBSD commiters!
by Arabian on Mon 19th Feb 2007 10:18 UTC
Arabian
Member since:
2007-01-23

FreeBSD is the way to go, I use as primary OS in my laptop ;)

Thank you FreeBSD commiters!

Reply Score: 2