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But the distros do patch the kernel, and compile with different options. They also run background programs like yum-updatesd.

Indeed, these benchmarks at least where a bit more usefull compared to the earlier ones which really where stupid... If they continue to improve, their second next benchmarks might even be very interesting...

>They should compare time to boot, time to load each desktop, memory used on a default install, time to open applications,...<

for me personally i couldn't care less about most of that. I almost never reboot my computers and when i do i really don't care about the boot time..... if it takes 2 minutes....... so what.... it's not like i have to reboot every time i install something like you have to do in windows so often.

and ...... well....... the memory........... linux uses all your memory all the time.............. what does your memory do if you aren't using it?

i am a hell of a lot more concerned with with how fast an app r uns after the system has booted then i am with boot time. I would rather have a slow boot time and a secure fast user environment myself.

notice that almost every test had a different winner?

Browser open on click, gedit, a great editor, open on click, evince open on click and rhythembox need one second. OOo Writer or Calc also open on click.

compress, encod etc. are betetr benchmarks.

Here, on Athlon 3500+ with 1GB of ram, it's way longer to open Firefox or Gedit. Subjective feel of speed is more based on responsiveness, I don't really care if encoding an album will take 10 or 12 minutes because I'm going to switch to another task anyway.

My applications typically run for months (using software suspend). Why should I care about the startup time?

I wonder how many years it will take until the majority of users is freed from starting up their working environment again and again and again...

yeah, many windows users aren't really used to multi-tasking, as it doesn't work very well under windows. I experience that every day at work, having freezes and crashes - other ppl don't. They tell me 'you want too much too fast'. Well, if I want to search through several pdf's, I'm used to opening them at the same time - preferably in tabs in konqueror (select 10 files, richtmouseclick -> open in tab). Don't even think about it in windows.

And if it wasn't for the performance issues, the window management sucks as well. If you have a word file open (working on it, you know...) and are looking for another - you open an explorer window with some files. Open the first word doc. No, not the right one. close. What do I have on top? The first word window, instead of the explorer window which was supposed to be there! WTF???

And what about shortcuts? Often, alt-tab doesn't work - I can't get out of a word window to the next window. Why? Aaaah - a floating toolbar!!! Brings me right back to the window I was working on! WTF?!?!?

Sorry, but until Microsoft gets the basics working, I can't comfortably work in it, so I prefer to work at home - in a decent Desktop Environment (and no - in this regard, even though I prefer KDE - Gnome kicks windows ass as well - anytime...)

Agreed, after having had to use Windows(tm) all day, when I get home, I fire up this Linux box and chill out using KDE.

It is the same feeling you get coming home from work, slouching on the sofa wearing your favourite slippers.


Comfy !

Clearly you know what I mean. Windows users here most likely don't even understand what I'm talking about, used as they are to working around all the quirks in windows. Many don't try to properly use the scrollwheel anymore (like, for scrolling - in windows, it only works in the active application. Not over tabs, not over the taskbar, not over the volume icon, not in non-focused apps, and often not even in the focused app - esp in dialogs, you often have to click the scrollbar first. WTF does microsoft think the scrollwheel is made for???)

Don't even think about it in windows.

What's problem in doing that in Windows? I usually have upto 30-50 windows opened, switching is instant.

If you have a word file open (working on it, you know...) and are looking for another - you open an explorer window with some files. Open the first word doc. No, not the right one. close. What do I have on top? The first word window, instead of the explorer window which was supposed to be there! WTF???

I wasn't able to reproduce that. After closing the document, explorer window is on top.

And what about shortcuts?

They work.

Often, alt-tab doesn't work - I can't get out of a word window to the next window. Why? Aaaah - a floating toolbar!!! Brings me right back to the window I was working on! WTF?!?!?

I wasn't able to reproduce that. Floating toolbar doesn't prevent switching from Word window in my case.

well, all of it is pretty reproducable here at work. Office 2003, MS Windows XP Media Center edition.

and having 30 windows open is of course horrible on a single desktop, but yes, that can be done. What IS horrible is that it takes word several minutes to become usable after you selected and opened 5 files at the same time... let alone 10 or more. Same with Adobe acrobat.

And the lack of Focus stealing prevention is horrible as well. If you open 5 word files, and word is 'working' on that in the background, it's pretty annoying to read a website - every time it has finished loading a word file, word pops up on the foreground, even when you're typing in firefox or whatever. At least KDE has proper window management - as long as you're actually WORKING in a window, another window doesn't pop up in front. But when you start an app, it DOES. Hard to describe to a windows user, I guess, let me just say it DOESN'T ANNOY THE HELL OUT OF ME. Like windows does.

and having 30 windows open is of course horrible on a single desktop, but yes, that can be done.

Why use single desktop?

What IS horrible is that it takes word several minutes to become usable after you selected and opened 5 files at the same time...

Still cannot understand what's problem with Word? Never heard any complaints from Word power users (myself I'm not) who work with multiple documents.

And the lack of Focus stealing prevention is horrible as well. If you open 5 word files, and word is 'working' on that in the background, it's pretty annoying to read a website - every time it has finished loading a word file, word pops up on the foreground, even when you're typing in firefox or whatever. At least KDE has proper window management - as long as you're actually WORKING in a window, another window doesn't pop up in front. But when you start an app, it DOES. Hard to describe to a windows user, I guess, let me just say it DOESN'T ANNOY THE HELL OUT OF ME. Like windows does.

Tweak UI -> General -> Prevent applications from stealing focus

Many don't try to properly use the scrollwheel anymore (like, for scrolling - in windows, it only works in the active application

My mouse driver has this option, and scrolling in inactive windows does work.

Not over tabs, not over the taskbar, not over the volume icon, not in non-focused apps, and often not even in the focused app - esp in dialogs, you often have to click the scrollbar first. WTF does microsoft think the scrollwheel is made for???)

Well, this features are available with freeware tools, but overall I agree with you that scrolling could be implemented better in explorer.

I really believe you can work around the many annoyances windows has. By installing freeware (and hoping it doesn't contain spyware), or more-or-less official tools from microsoft, or specific driver options etcetera.

But actually, this is another thing I don't like about Windows - EVERY piece of hardware has it's own options and settings. Some can easilly do things, others have horrible dialogs. Some printers can print 2 to 8 pages on 1, others can't. Apparently, some mouses can scroll inactive windows, others can't.

Well, that won't help me. First because I don't want to spend hours looking for obscure software to fix BASIC functionallity in my OS, second because I don't want to spend hours keeping all these tools up-to-date, look for security fixes etcetera, and last - because I CAN'T do any of it anyway, as I only use windows at work (eg I don't have any rights, I can barely use it...)

Microsoft should fix their operating system, instead of having their users spend their time hunting for tools fixing deficiencies in Windows.

At least software management WORKS on linux, I do remember the Windows 98 time with all these custom tools and all the time spend on managing them and the instability and performance problems they cause... Thank the FOSS community for Package Managers (and some decent operating systems).

You, stare, seem to be a power user (most users just live with these problems, instead of spending time to fix them). Give linux a try, apart from the ocassional annoyances (mostly because microsoft spends a lot of time making interoperability a mess) you'll see it is a lot more mature compared to MS... Just different (it took me a long time to switch, but now I can't even imagine how I could stand the limitation to your computer that is called Windows).

By installing freeware (and hoping it doesn't contain spyware), or more-or-less official tools from microsoft, or specific driver options etcetera.

At least there are tools which implement funtionality I wasn't able to achieve in Linux at all. Like mouseImp, for example -- scrolling pages by moving mouse with the right mouse button pressed.

But actually, this is another thing I don't like about Windows - EVERY piece of hardware has it's own options and settings. Some can easilly do things, others have horrible dialogs. Some printers can print 2 to 8 pages on 1, others can't.

What you are saying seems like a KDE description for me :-) Really, I don't have any problem with hardware in Windows (man, at least there is decent GUI device manager, contrary to mess in Gnome/KDE)

Well, that won't help me. First because I don't want to spend hours looking for obscure software to fix BASIC functionallity in my OS

I don't spend hours looking for obscure software, why should you?

At least software management WORKS on linux

Personally I couldnt care less about software management on desktop. I already have established set of tools I work with.

I do remember the Windows 98 time with all these custom tools and all the time spend on managing them and the instability and performance problems they cause...

Windows 9x is a mess by itself, you shouldn't have used it in a first place.

Give linux a try

Well, my first Linux experience on the desktop was RH6 and since that I had been trying almost every major release. Not to say I use Linux and FreeBSD on my servers at work. So I'm not exactly a Linux newbie

apart from the ocassional annoyances (mostly because microsoft spends a lot of time making interoperability a mess) you'll see it is a lot more mature compared to MS...

My experience is opposite. Until last 1-2 years Linux on desktop was horrid. Too slow, too many visual glitches, too many interface inconsistencies, after all just unstable. It gets significatly better, but even in current state it's barely usable -- still feels slower, still looks amateuristic. In addition there is lack of professional apps like non-linear video editors, image editing software, some other specific tools. And did I mention games?

Edited 2007-03-08 15:04

They aren't.
Fedora and Ubuntu use different kernel versions, and they have tweaked the stock kernel to fit their needs.
And, a lot of the software in the repos have distro-specific patches, which would change things some.
However, I still doubt there would be MAJOR differences. The one major difference I can think of in Ubuntu is Upstart, instead of sysVinit. They didnt test boot times, so that wouln't show up.

Fedora and Ubuntu use different kernel versions, and they have tweaked the stock kernel to fit their needs.

So it proves that 'tweaking' the kernel doesn't change anything and is more a geek stuff than real world optimizations.

people who use linux as something other than a server.