Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 8th Mar 2007 16:28 UTC, submitted by anonymous
Linux Hewlett-Packard is closing custom deals for thousands of desktop PCs running Linux, which has the company assessing the possibility of offering factory-loaded Linux systems, an HP executive said. "We are involved in a number of massive deals for Linux desktops, and those are the kinds of things that are indicators of critical mass. So we are really looking at it very hard," said Doug Small, worldwide director of open source and Linux marketing at HP. "We are in a massive deal right now for multi-thousands of units of a desktop opportunity for Linux. That's an indicator." He declined to give details about the deals.
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The year of Linux Desktop :-)
by jcornuz on Thu 8th Mar 2007 16:48 UTC
jcornuz
Member since:
2007-03-08

Sorry, someone had to do it. Better be done with it quickly.

Yes, I am already out...

Reply Score: 5

RE: The year of Linux Desktop :-)
by OMRebel on Thu 8th Mar 2007 17:02 UTC in reply to "The year of Linux Desktop :-)"
OMRebel Member since:
2005-11-14

This is interesting though. If HP will actually start preloading Linux on the desktops, then that would be a huge plus for the direction of Linux.

It's going to be interesting to see if HP or Dell will be the first to really launch a campain to bring factory loaded Linux to the masses.

Reply Score: 2

rayiner Member since:
2005-07-06

A little-known fact is that HP already ships over 250,000 Linux desktops per quarter (based on 2004 figures), mostly to the Asian market. So these deals are interesting, but they're not an unprecedented event.

Stats from: http://www.channelinsider.com/article/HP+Certifies+Supports+Novell+...

Reply Score: 4

RE: The year of Linux Desktop :-)
by Sphinx on Fri 9th Mar 2007 14:28 UTC in reply to "The year of Linux Desktop :-)"
Sphinx Member since:
2005-07-09

All hands, brace for impact!!

Reply Score: 2

Dell
by cyberkoa on Thu 8th Mar 2007 17:00 UTC
cyberkoa
Member since:
2006-10-18

If Dell still takes "stop and see" strategy on the Linux Desktop/Laptop business, I will not be surprise Dell will be the 2nd Gateway.

Reply Score: 3

Possible positive sign
by fretinator on Thu 8th Mar 2007 17:18 UTC
fretinator
Member since:
2005-07-06

Individually, some of the stories I have read about OEM Linux are nothing new. HP already had a Linux laptop - the zvSOMETHING. I worked for a company that used Redhat servers from Dell. We have played this pre-loaded Linux game for quite a while with little real results (Wal-mart, etc).

However, it strikes me that we are hearing multiple stories at once from big comapnies - Dell, HP, IBM (for a long time), Sun. Also, many governmental agencies (even in the U.S.) are considering Linux.

I remember reading Bill Gates book "The Road Ahead" where he talked about the snowball effect. Perhaps we are just now starting to see the snowball forming for Linux. It's not rolling yet, just forming, and could easily be stopped. Who knows, though, if it ever starts rolling, we could see the big paradigm shift.

BTW, I don't believe the paradigm shift is about Linux. It is actually the death of big, fat proprietary software packages. A lot of people _may_ have to retool themselves from reselling of "packages" to having actual skills that they market. Most consultants companies use couldn't code there way out of a paper-tape bag. They just know how to recommend and install big, fat packages like Sharepoint Portal Server. They convince the company that it needs this hog (and the Server OS and licenses that go with it). Most of these companies would do just fine with a PHP CMS solution. But the consultants would need to know what they were doing.

Rant over!

Reply Score: 5

Desktop Linux PCs
by Supreme Dragon on Thu 8th Mar 2007 17:26 UTC
Supreme Dragon
Member since:
2007-03-04

I hope they start selling Linux desktop PCs soon. The market desperately needs computers with a quality OS installed.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Desktop Linux PCs
by fretinator on Thu 8th Mar 2007 21:37 UTC in reply to "Desktop Linux PCs"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

OK, I'm tired of this line of thought. I want to see Linux on Dell, HP, etc, because I think it is a very good operating system. However, I don't think Windows is as bad as people make it out. In fact, all the "Windows Sux" talk just makes Linux look worse. Let's compete because we have a good product. It's more secure, more flexible, and definitely more Free (as in Libre). I confess, I sometimes joke about "Windblows", etc., but it's really not that bad of an OS. I would just like consumers to have a choice, and not be told what they are going to run, and when they are going to upgrade.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Desktop Linux PCs
by de_wizze on Thu 8th Mar 2007 23:00 UTC in reply to "RE: Desktop Linux PCs"
de_wizze Member since:
2005-10-31

"I would just like consumers to have a choice, and not be told what they are going to run, and when they are going to upgrade"

In that case you have no problem with Linux being offered unabated by anti-competitive deals right. Thereby allowing the customers to 'choose' from options that are actually provided, and not have to be left with the "take this or go find your own stuff, we won't tell what else you can get"

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Desktop Linux PCs
by twenex on Thu 8th Mar 2007 23:04 UTC in reply to "RE: Desktop Linux PCs"
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

Let's compete because we have a good product.

We DO have a good product. It's the monopolistic nature of Microsoft and Windows that stops others from competing. That may not always have been true in the past, but it sure as hell is true now.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Desktop Linux PCs
by fretinator on Thu 8th Mar 2007 23:12 UTC in reply to "RE: Desktop Linux PCs"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

It's the monopolistic nature of Microsoft and Windows that stops others from competing

That's my point. My main problem with Microsoft is _NOT_ Windows sucks, but that the consumer hasn't been able to choose for a LONG time. So let's focus on that, and knock off the "Windows Sux" stuff, it just seems juvenile.

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: Desktop Linux PCs
by twenex on Thu 8th Mar 2007 23:55 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Desktop Linux PCs"
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

Agree there.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Desktop Linux PCs
by deb2006 on Fri 9th Mar 2007 15:18 UTC in reply to "RE: Desktop Linux PCs"
deb2006 Member since:
2006-06-26

Well, you're right: "Windows is not as bad as people make it out" -- It's actually even much worse than that ...

Reply Score: 2

RE: Desktop Linux PCs
by TaterSalad on Thu 8th Mar 2007 21:38 UTC in reply to "Desktop Linux PCs"
TaterSalad Member since:
2005-07-06

So why would they use linux then?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Desktop Linux PCs
by Supreme Dragon on Thu 8th Mar 2007 21:52 UTC in reply to "RE: Desktop Linux PCs"
Supreme Dragon Member since:
2007-03-04

"So why would they use linux then?"

Maybe they want to use an OS that is secure, reliable, has a reasonable price/EULA, and is not infected with DRM/WGA/activation.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Desktop Linux PCs
by TaterSalad on Thu 8th Mar 2007 21:57 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Desktop Linux PCs"
TaterSalad Member since:
2005-07-06

"Maybe they want to use an OS that is secure, reliable, has a reasonable price/EULA, and is not infected with DRM/WGA/activation."

Again I'll ask, so why would they use linux then?

Reply Score: 0

RE[4]: Desktop Linux PCs
by archiesteel on Thu 8th Mar 2007 22:02 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Desktop Linux PCs"
archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

Again I'll ask, so why would they use linux then?

Because it's secure, reliable, has a reasonable price/EULA and is not infected with DRM/WGA/activation.

I don't know about you, but that was pretty obvious.

Reply Score: 5

RE[5]: Desktop Linux PCs
by TaterSalad on Thu 8th Mar 2007 22:10 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Desktop Linux PCs"
TaterSalad Member since:
2005-07-06

Maybe its not so obvious considering every time I boot up into linux there are always updates a lot of which are security updates. There may be no DRM in it at the moment but Linus sure wasn't against adding it to the kernel. So again, if you wanted secure and reliable why would you choose linux?

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Desktop Linux PCs
by Supreme Dragon on Thu 8th Mar 2007 22:24 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Desktop Linux PCs"
Supreme Dragon Member since:
2007-03-04

"Maybe its not so obvious considering every time I boot up into linux there are always updates a lot of which are security updates. There may be no DRM in it at the moment but Linus sure wasn't against adding it to the kernel. So again, if you wanted secure and reliable why would you choose linux?"

I want people to have a choice, I don't care what OS they use as long they choose to use it. People should not be forced to use Windows because a monopolist makes OEM's install it on all PCs.

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Desktop Linux PCs
by archiesteel on Thu 8th Mar 2007 22:31 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Desktop Linux PCs"
archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

Maybe its not so obvious considering every time I boot up into linux there are always updates a lot of which are security updates.

The fact that there are security updates doesn't mean the system is insecure. First of all, these are updates for *all* apps installed on the Linux PC, not just the OS. Also, in Linux you often get small "piecemeal" updates, while Microsoft usually puts all of its updates together.

In any case, you mustn't boot into Linux often. Over the past week in Ubuntu I think there have been only one or two packages that were updated for security on my install.

Now, let's compare this to Windows history of malware infection, which costs *billions* of dollars every year. It doesn't matter if this is because Windows is more popular or not: the fact is that *right now* Windows is much more at risk than Linux has ever been.

There may be no DRM in it at the moment but Linus sure wasn't against adding it to the kernel.

There's a difference between putting the code in place and making it mandatory.

So again, if you wanted secure and reliable why would you choose linux?

Because it is more secure and reliable. Also, by using it you don't financially contribute to an abusive quasi-monopoly.

Oh, and Beryl blows Aero out of the water.

Reply Score: 5

RE[6]: Desktop Linux PCs
by twenex on Thu 8th Mar 2007 23:07 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Desktop Linux PCs"
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

Maybe its not so obvious considering every time I boot up into linux there are always updates a lot of which are security updates.

So you think an OS would be more secure that DIDN'T include security updates?

There may be no DRM in it at the moment but Linus sure wasn't against adding it to the kernel. So again, if you wanted secure and reliable why would you choose linux?

Linux is a pragmatist. Sometimes pragmatists do things that are not a good idea.

Reply Score: 5

RE[7]: Desktop Linux PCs
by vegai on Fri 9th Mar 2007 08:38 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Desktop Linux PCs"
vegai Member since:
2005-12-25

"Linux is a pragmatist. Sometimes pragmatists do things that are not a good idea."

Much much much less often than idealists do, though.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Desktop Linux PCs
by suryad on Fri 9th Mar 2007 16:19 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Desktop Linux PCs"
suryad Member since:
2005-07-09

God dude just because there are security updates doesnt mean that it is a bad OS...it just means the community or the maintainers or the developers of that OS and its ecosystem are aware that there are vulnerabilities and that they are working hard to fix them. You should only be lucky that you are getting security updates for free....heck you are getting an entire OS for free so stop your yapping. It doesnt matter if you use XP or if you use Linux. Are you getting your work done as quickly and efficiently as you would like? If yes shut up and if no then go find a different OS. Simple as that.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Desktop Linux PCs
by kaiwai on Thu 8th Mar 2007 22:12 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Desktop Linux PCs"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Because it's secure, reliable, has a reasonable price/EULA and is not infected with DRM/WGA/activation.

End users don't know what EULA and DRM/WGA/Activation - what they do know is money - is cheaper than Windows; and what is better - Linux has better applications like Amarok, for example.

No use throwing around unknown TLA's - stick to promoting things they (the end user) know something about.

Edited 2007-03-08 22:17

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Desktop Linux PCs
by twenex on Thu 8th Mar 2007 22:48 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Desktop Linux PCs"
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

"Maybe they want to use an OS that is secure, reliable, has a reasonable price/EULA, and is not infected with DRM/WGA/activation."

Again I'll ask, so why would they use linux then?


Patently you don't realise what a laughing stock that makes you look.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Desktop Linux PCs
by Sphinx on Fri 9th Mar 2007 14:30 UTC in reply to "RE: Desktop Linux PCs"
Sphinx Member since:
2005-07-09

Hard to resist that one.

Reply Score: 2

oh yes
by SK8T on Thu 8th Mar 2007 17:28 UTC
SK8T
Member since:
2006-06-01

I thinkt he's right.

Because the open source development is that fast, and it would be much cheaper for HP/Dell/whaterver to build an oww, user friendly, multimedia linux system for their systems, that works well with the hardware (remebers me of Aple and OS X), instead of buying expensive licenses from microsoft.

Linux gets more and more tools that makes this possible, at the moment Beryl, Amarok, OpenOffice…
In the futere maybe KDE4 and so on?

who knows…

Reply Score: 2

Introductions
by sbergman27 on Thu 8th Mar 2007 17:33 UTC
sbergman27
Member since:
2005-07-24

Chicken, meet egg. Egg, meet Chicken.

Egg is extremely shy; Chicken quite reserved. Neither are the easiest to get to know.

But fiery romance could ignite if only Egg would come out of her shell... if only Chicken reached out.

Could this be that certain party?

Edited 2007-03-08 17:36

Reply Score: 5

Consider the source
by Jody on Thu 8th Mar 2007 17:39 UTC
Jody
Member since:
2005-06-30

This guy is not the CEO or VP, he is a "director of open source and Linux marketing at HP".

Maybe he was afraid Dell was getting too much good press for certifying some of their desktop hardware for use with Linux and this is his attempt to steal Dell's thunder?

I also don't really think it will make much difference.

It does not matter what distro they select, what drivers they use, or what packages they select, people in the Linux community would give HP a hard time if they bundle Linux.

If they sell it for free without support or charge and offer support, people in the Linux community are going to complain about it.

They are milking the publicity without having to adopt the tar baby.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Consider the source
by twenex on Thu 8th Mar 2007 19:07 UTC in reply to "Consider the source"
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

It does not matter what distro they select, what drivers they use, or what packages they select, people in the Linux community would give HP a hard time if they bundle Linux.

Oh really? I can only see "the Linux community giv[ing] HP a hard time" if they bundle Novell.

Any other distro, people who don't want it will just install their own. I, for example, wouldn't object to being described as one of the strongest critics of Microvel and Ubuntu - but, the difference between the two is, I would be happy to buy a laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled, even although I would have to do some work myself to get it up to my required spec. (And if they DID preinstall Ubuntu, then who knows? Many of the issues I have with it, such as inadequate hardware support, might disappear.)

If they sell it for free without support or charge and offer support, people in the Linux community are going to complain about it.

If they are going to preinstall Linux, then they should give it support on the same basis they give Windows support.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Consider the source
by sbergman27 on Thu 8th Mar 2007 19:37 UTC in reply to "RE: Consider the source"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

"""
Oh really? I can only see "the Linux community giv[ing] HP a hard time" if they bundle Novell.
"""

Do you really think so? My perception is that the "Boycott Novell" crowd is already boycotting so many things,likely including email and telephones, that they would have a hard time getting their message across, outside of like minded Internet forums.

My historical grounding is in RH/Fedora. My current favorite distro is Ubuntu. But I think that SLED would be a fine choice.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Consider the source
by twenex on Thu 8th Mar 2007 20:33 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Consider the source"
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

Oh really? I can only see "the Linux community giv[ing] HP a hard time" if they bundle Novell.

Do you really think so?


Yes.

My perception is that the "Boycott Novell" crowd is already boycotting so many things,likely including email and telephones, that they would have a hard time getting their message across, outside of like minded Internet forums.

I call trollshit. If they were boycotting email and phones, why not the Intarweb?

My historical grounding is in RH/Fedora. My current favorite distro is Ubuntu. But I think that SLED would be a fine choice.

Technologically, it's possible. I've heard a lot of good things about SLED from that perspective. It's just a shame the Koh-i-Noor of Linux has been stolen by our 5th Column.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Consider the source
by sbergman27 on Thu 8th Mar 2007 21:14 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Consider the source"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

"""I call trollshit. If they were boycotting email and phones, why not the Intarweb?"""

That was tongue in cheek. But I do think that their shrillness compromises their credibility.

"""Technologically, it's possible. I've heard a lot of good things about SLED from that perspective."""

Indeed. It's more than possible. It would make a lot of sense. SLED is the sort of desktop distro that is designed for distribution by HP, Dell, et. al.

Far more suitable than, say, Ubuntu, where the schedule and focus of the next release seem based upon whim.

I don't mean to trash Ubuntu BTW, as it is my favorite distro these days.

But I'm very one on one with my customers.

It is a very different situation from that in which a faceless corporation sells to faceless, price shopping consumers, who expect credible support from faceless tech support workers, and nastily blog about it (usually with their faces displayed prominently at the top right of the page) if they are not satisfied.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Consider the source
by twenex on Thu 8th Mar 2007 21:29 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Consider the source"
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

That was tongue in cheek. But I do think that their shrillness compromises their credibility.

What you call "shrillness", I call "honesty". I can't call anyone for being honest, but I can see how it could be a problem for someone who just wants to milk people for their money.

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Consider the source
by sbergman27 on Thu 8th Mar 2007 22:29 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Consider the source"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

"""
What you call "shrillness", I call "honesty". I can't call anyone for being honest, but I can see how it could be a problem for someone who just wants to milk people for their money.
"""


I believe that the narrow "my way or the highway" attitude that some enthusiasts take is ultimately detrimental to both Linux and Freedom.

Compromise is essential to success. And monomania is antithetical to Freedom.

The real trick is proper balance.

Buddhism is a better model for FOSS advocacy than is Evangelicalism.

But slinging mud is, admittedly, more fun. ;-)

Edited 2007-03-08 22:30

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Consider the source
by twenex on Thu 8th Mar 2007 22:40 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Consider the source"
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

I believe that the narrow "my way or the highway" attitude that some enthusiasts take is ultimately detrimental to both Linux and Freedom.

You make it sound as if those opposed to Linux are any better. In reality, there is no better way to be detrimental to Linux in particular, and software freedom in general, than to write closed-source software.

Compromise is essential to success. And monomania is antithetical to Freedom.

Again, you make it sound like those who are not Linux advocates are not monomaniacs. As evidence for the prosecution, I give you Exhibit A: Dozens of different proprietary word processing formats.

Buddhism is a better model for FOSS advocacy than is Evangelicalism.

When was the last time you heard of someone who changed the world by sitting back and taking all the shit he was thrown?

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: Consider the source
by Soulbender on Fri 9th Mar 2007 10:54 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Consider the source"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"Compromise is essential to success."

It's not a good idea to always compromise, the trick is to understand WHEN and WHAT to compromise.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Consider the source
by B. Janssen on Fri 9th Mar 2007 13:25 UTC in reply to "RE: Consider the source"
B. Janssen Member since:
2006-10-11

twenenx: If they are going to preinstall Linux, then they should give it support on the same basis they give Windows support.

Which means "none" and would suit me just fine.

EDIT: Oh, my bad. If you mean providing drivers and BIOS updates through GNU/Linux, this would be splendid. I thought of desktop support. Again, sorry for any confusion.

Edited 2007-03-09 13:28

Reply Score: 1

RE: Consider the source
by fretinator on Thu 8th Mar 2007 19:29 UTC in reply to "Consider the source"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

It does not matter what distro they select, what drivers they use, or what packages they select, people in the Linux community would give HP a hard time if they bundle Linux.

I think you have a good point. Picking a distro can be problematic (e.g., if they pick Suse, as one poster mentioned). Should or should they not put "proprietary" bits in (either way 50% of the people will complain)? What, if anything should the bundle? The list goes on.

How should a company navigate this often "grouchy" group?

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Consider the source
by twenex on Thu 8th Mar 2007 20:38 UTC in reply to "RE: Consider the source"
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

How should a company navigate this often "grouchy" group?

Lowest common denominator method, just as they do now (by installing Windows). Install Ubuntu, no proprietary stuff, same kind of software bundle as they do with their Windows machines: IE -> Firefox, WMP -> Amarok, MSOffice/Works -> OpenOffice.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Consider the source
by fretinator on Thu 8th Mar 2007 21:14 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Consider the source"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

Install Ubuntu, no proprietary stuff

I'm not sure that would fly. Not being able to watch DVD's, play MP3's, many websites not working, etc. might be a big turn-off to people. You and I might know how to resolve that (should we choose to), but the average user is just going to think their computer is broken.

This is where the two versions of Freespire might help. The user could choose the Free edition (no non-free software), or the "closed bits" edition. I think the latest version of Ubuntu (7.04) may offer some help in this area also (offering the user some guidance if they try to use certain codecs). SUSE might be a better choice commercially, because more things will work out of the box.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Consider the source
by twenex on Thu 8th Mar 2007 21:27 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Consider the source"
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

I'm not sure that would fly. Not being able to watch DVD's, play MP3's, many websites not working, etc. might be a big turn-off to people. You and I might know how to resolve that (should we choose to), but the average user is just going to think their computer is broken.

Then what we need is an icon on the desktop called "Click here to listen to MP3's, etc." or something.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Consider the source
by kaiwai on Thu 8th Mar 2007 22:01 UTC in reply to "RE: Consider the source"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Create their own distribution based Fedora, brand it according to their company motif - HP Desktop Linux; work with third party software vendors and create the same level support as for their Windows counterpart.

The problem is that every time companies have dumped Linux onto desktops, every hardware company has made a half ass attempt to actually turn it into something that is attractive to the end user - and unfortunately I don't see things improving.

HP is the same Microsoft whore that it always was; cutting their spending on their own UNIX in favour of a closer relationship with Microsoft, lack of investment and discloser to supporting HP printers on Linux, lack of working with third parties to bring software to Linux.

I don't think Dell is going to change a thing; they reveal onthe fact they spend nothing on R&D - they're nothing more than the manufacturing wing of Intel and AMD; so the likelihood they would spend the necessary kind of money to turn Linux into a tempting alternative to Windows is highly unlikely - as for the announcement about the position over Linux? nothing more than a PR stunt to get their name in the paper.

Edited 2007-03-08 22:09

Reply Score: 3

RE: Consider the source
by tpaws on Thu 8th Mar 2007 20:13 UTC in reply to "Consider the source"
tpaws Member since:
2006-06-02

I think I understand your points, but taking a snapshot of the the market place today, is not going to be the same image in the future. The article, as well as many other stories are showing a growing interest in the Linux Desktop, after all sales are growing.

The "complainers" in the Linux community are very much like any family or organizaation. Until someone takes the lead, and moves decisively, the "group" will sound like squabbling hens. Everyone has an opinion, a favorite, or their own unique view of what the future should be. When decisive moves are made most will be pleased and glad to follow. Of course there will always be those who will continue to grumble, but for the most part they will allow for some level of approval.

This article is showing another point in the journey. The big OEMs selling pre-installed Linux in the consumer market place is going to happen. This article is an indicator.

Edited 2007-03-08 20:14

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Consider the source
by fretinator on Thu 8th Mar 2007 21:23 UTC in reply to "RE: Consider the source"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

The big OEMs selling pre-installed Linux in the consumer market place is going to happen. This article is an indicator.

Wow, I hope you are right. I wonder though, how many are ready for success. I guess many of us would have to switch to some other niche OS to get our geek buzz. I wonder if I can run Plan9 on my laptop?

Reply Score: 3

HP
by SlackerJack on Thu 8th Mar 2007 17:53 UTC
SlackerJack
Member since:
2005-11-12

Well HP support Linux very well with printers, I'd like to see them do Linux desktop for sure. At least HP seem to be doing this proper rather than sitting on the fence.

HP donate kickarse server equipment to kernel.org as well so thumbs up for HP.

Reply Score: 5

RE: HP
by FunkyELF on Thu 8th Mar 2007 20:31 UTC in reply to "HP"
FunkyELF Member since:
2006-07-26

Where have you seen HP supporting Linux with printers. I see ...

Microsoft Windows Vista
Microsoft Windows Vista (64-bit)
Microsoft Windows XP
Microsoft Windows XP x64
Microsoft Windows 2000 Pro
Microsoft Windows 2000
Microsoft Windows ME
Microsoft Windows 98
Mac OS X
Mac OS 9

Where are the linux drivers? Show me an all-in one printer where they provide Linux drivers for scanning / copying / printing.

Are their drivers as robust as the Windows versions? When you print something can you select to print a mirror image for an iron on transfer?

I'm not speaking from experience, I'd just like to know.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: HP
by anda_skoa on Thu 8th Mar 2007 20:53 UTC in reply to "RE: HP"
anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

Where are the linux drivers?

At HP's Linux Printing and Imaging site:
http://hplip.sourceforge.net/

Show me an all-in one printer where they provide Linux drivers for scanning / copying / printing.

According to this
http://hplip.sourceforge.net/supported_devices/color_laser_mfp.html
for example the Color LaserJet 2800

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: HP
by SlackerJack on Thu 8th Mar 2007 21:48 UTC in reply to "RE: HP"
SlackerJack Member since:
2005-11-12

"Over 1,000 open source printer drivers

HP is the only major printer manufacturer with fully open source printer drivers. We've contributed over 1,000, now included in our partners' Linux distributions for true plug n' play support, earning us first prize in a Linuxprinting.org survey because of quality, speed, and open source commitment."

http://hplip.sourceforge.net/

http://opensource.hp.com/

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: HP
by xxmf on Fri 9th Mar 2007 10:13 UTC in reply to "RE: HP"
xxmf Member since:
2006-06-15

I'm speaking from experience"

Me: "When will you support x86_64 on printer XYZ on XP"

HP: "We aren't"

Me: "Oh"

Fortuanately it all just worked with fedora without any "help" from HP.

Reply Score: 1

Which OS
by serlex on Thu 8th Mar 2007 17:57 UTC
serlex
Member since:
2007-01-09

which Linux do you think they will use (this might sound stupid)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Which OS
by jakesdad on Thu 8th Mar 2007 18:08 UTC in reply to "Which OS"
jakesdad Member since:
2005-12-28

One of 3. Either Novell's SLED, Ubuntu, or Redhat Enterprise Workstation.

Im willing to bet its Novell, since they already have an agreement in place.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Which OS
by Liquidator on Thu 8th Mar 2007 18:24 UTC in reply to "RE: Which OS"
Liquidator Member since:
2007-03-04

It won't be red hat. Not mature enough for the desktop, not popular outside the server market, and pricy.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Which OS
by Beresford on Thu 8th Mar 2007 18:39 UTC in reply to "RE: Which OS"
Beresford Member since:
2005-07-06

They use Suse for their pre install setup disk (SmartStart) so I'm also thinking Suse.

Edited 2007-03-08 18:39

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Which OS
by akro on Thu 8th Mar 2007 18:50 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Which OS"
akro Member since:
2005-07-06

Actually as former HPer they supported Debian, RHEL and Suse internally on what we called Linux COE (Common Operating Environment) So i wouldn't put it past them to offer debianubuntu. Theyt already offer support for debian on some servers. Although they have strong relationships with both RH and Novell so maybe all three or one preinstall with certification for the others.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Which OS
by Darkelve on Fri 9th Mar 2007 08:03 UTC in reply to "Which OS"
Darkelve Member since:
2006-02-06

2.6.something ;)

Oops, that's a kernel, not an OS...

Yeah, I'm guessing either Opensuse or Ubuntu.

Edited 2007-03-09 08:16

Reply Score: 2

What they should do
by Redeeman on Thu 8th Mar 2007 18:53 UTC
Redeeman
Member since:
2006-03-23

They should instead of perhaps preinstalling linux, and offering many different dists, at the very least simply make sure their hardware works perfectly, lots of the already established linux users will not be using the preinstalled distribution anyway, what matters is that the hardware is good.

and for beginners they can always have an option for preinstalled ubuntu or whatever else, doesent really matter.

ofcourse for larger orders, a choice of stuff like novell, redhat, or basically anything else should be possible too. Ofcourse this simply costs, as anything does.

Reply Score: 2

No divorce for HP
by isaba on Thu 8th Mar 2007 19:12 UTC
isaba
Member since:
2006-12-30

HP is happily married with MS. They have children in common and I cannot see divorce in sight. No reason for HP to have a liason with Linux.
Nobody kills the cow if milk is more expensive than meat.

Anyway some things are starting to change, for example, linux is in more and more mouths year by year. And HP, Dell and others (MS too!) are listening carefully.

Reply Score: 2

Don't Wait for HP or Dell
by Peter Besenbruch on Thu 8th Mar 2007 19:29 UTC
Peter Besenbruch
Member since:
2006-03-13

I have hesitated to buy HP, because of their rather dodgy reputation for customer support. I have always tended to look for smaller outfits for complete systems.

I just ordered my second machine from rCubed. Their Web site presents a lot of the usual options for building machines. The particular system I wanted didn't offer a no-keyboard/mouse and no-speakers option, so I called and asked about it. While I was on the phone, the sales person modified the Web page in question, and told me to refresh my browser. That's service.

I also had a choice of two OSes, Linux and Windows. Of the various flavors of Linux, I could choose between OpenSuse, Fedora, or Ubuntu. I could also subscribe to the enterprise versions of Red Hat or Suse. Those are reasonable choices.

My experience with a Linux based laptop was quite positive. It came loaded with Fedora. The kernel had been customized, and when I turned on the machine, everything worked.

So, it's possible to purchase a Linux computer that "just works." In fact, it's easy. You are dealing with smaller outfits, but the service is better. If Dell and HP move into the Linux field, I wish them well, but I won't consider them until their customer support improves.

Reply Score: 5

Its really going to depend on
by NixerX on Thu 8th Mar 2007 20:09 UTC
NixerX
Member since:
2006-01-04

What Distro's they pick. Obviously NDL is one. RHEL is likely, and problalby Ubuntu. What kind of support will the offer? If they are only going to offer half-@ssed support then the venture will fail. PPl taking a chance on linux will need some help.
-nX

Reply Score: 1

He's a 'massive' marketing guy...
by Harald on Thu 8th Mar 2007 20:53 UTC
Harald
Member since:
2006-03-10

Which is clear judging by his seemingly favourite word: "massive"

And what exactly does 'massive' mean?

"We are in a massive deal right now for multi-thousands of units of a desktop opportunity for Linux."

'opportunity'? The way I read that massive sentence it appears the OS has not been finalized for said massive deal. For all we know, OS/2 could also be in the running.

As usual, instead of listening to the marketing directors I'll wait for results from the finance directors.

Reply Score: 2

HP and Debian
by ubit on Thu 8th Mar 2007 22:45 UTC
ubit
Member since:
2006-09-08

HP made 20 million dollars from Debian support in the last year, I believe, so it's not a huge stretch to say that it's possible to believe they might not go with Red Hat or Novell.

Reply Score: 2

Here's another good article:
by ubit on Thu 8th Mar 2007 22:55 UTC
ubit
Member since:
2006-09-08

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8312248169.html

"
Analysis -- In Samuel Beckett's masterpiece, Waiting for Godot, Godot never arrives, and the play ends with our characters still waiting. I sometimes think Linux users are also stuck in a barren landscape endlessly waiting for Dell, HP, Lenovo, or another major vendor to finally deliver a mass-market Linux desktop.

The major desktop players keep flirting with the Linux community, but then they never go all the way. Take, for instance, Lenovo. Last summer, Lenovo agreed to preload Novell Inc.'s SLED 10 (SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop) on its ThinkPad T60p mobile workstation.
"

Personally, I had completely forgotten about the Lenovo-SLED deal.

Reply Score: 2

SLED needs the push
by Southern.Pride on Thu 8th Mar 2007 23:58 UTC
Southern.Pride
Member since:
2006-09-14

Novell is sitting on a Gold mine right now as we read this article if they marketed SLED and pre-installed it on the drive it would be a hot item. SuSE has a slick desktop that would be welcomed by the end user community not only that no more malware/spyware disasters waiting to happen.

Red Hat pretty much abandoned the desktop so be it Novell needs to take this opportunity and go for broke. They only have customers and money to be made. If they sell it people would pay money for Linux compatitble software if they bought a machine with it pre-loaded. They spend it on Windows and people would not think twice about buying it for a Linux box.

Like the old saying goes, if you write the code they will come!

Reply Score: 2

RE: SLED needs the push
by SlackerJack on Fri 9th Mar 2007 00:37 UTC in reply to "SLED needs the push"
SlackerJack Member since:
2005-11-12

Yes and Redhat made a good move in doing that, server is where Linux was at the time but they still contribute in may ways.

Now it's enterprise/desktop time and Novell history in business choices is not good, I wouldn't follow them because you may end up over a cliff.

Reply Score: 2

what distro?
by Angel Blue01 on Fri 9th Mar 2007 00:35 UTC
Angel Blue01
Member since:
2006-11-01

I'm predicting it'll be the non-free version of SUSE or SLED not Ubuntu. People don't want to have to load stuff on their computers if they don't have to, they want stuff to be readily available. SUSE comes with a lot of non-OSS stuff, which is one reason why its my distro of choice.

Reply Score: 1

people want a choice
by Supreme Dragon on Fri 9th Mar 2007 00:39 UTC
Supreme Dragon
Member since:
2007-03-04

If a person wants to use Microsoft Bob 2..........I mean Vista, that is their choice ,I don' care , spend hundreds of dollars on a pile of crap. As a Linux user, I want a choice. At the very least, they need to offer a no OS option.

Reply Score: 2

Ubuntu...
by apoclypse on Fri 9th Mar 2007 07:05 UTC
apoclypse
Member since:
2007-02-17

I think the original goal of canonical was to create custom linux distros to make money. I think they did that with a country that had asked for a custom distro built. Now that Ubuntu is where its at and its repo is gaining in size. Now would be a good time to offer there services to these oem companies helping them create custom versions of ubuntu to run how they want with all the source making its way over to mainline Ubuntu. The problem with Ubuntu is that newer version come out every six months and that is something an oem company might not want to support. Ubuntu should create a yearly version for the oem's based on every other release. They should make sure updating from a cd is possible and flawless. Being oem companies they can probably flip the bill for any proprietary software needed by having these already configured and installed.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Ubuntu...
by fretinator on Fri 9th Mar 2007 20:03 UTC in reply to "Ubuntu..."
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

The problem with Ubuntu is that newer version come out every six months and that is something an oem company might not want to support. Ubuntu should create a yearly version for the oem's based on every other release

Which is why they released 6.06 LTS (long-term support) last year!

Reply Score: 2

Follow the money
by moleskine on Fri 9th Mar 2007 09:40 UTC
moleskine
Member since:
2005-11-05

There is a hurdle here and imho it is up to the Linux world to suggest a way over it.

For a Dell or any direct-sales outfit, the hurdle is this: Linux is a less attractive financial option. Sell a box with Linux and you will get no income from crapware merchants, no grants from Microsoft and a distinct possibility of higher support costs. You may also get less chance of profitable upselling (the customer orders a better graphics card, e.g.) and this customer may turn out to be the low-end el cheapo type that no business really wants. Then to cap it all, the customer expects to pay less for his Linux machine than if it had Windows on it.

"Multi-thousand" deals where the hardware and the software are rolled up together aren't a problem. If the deal were large enough, outfits like Dell or HP would happily install OS Kit-E-Kat if the customer wanted. The problem lies with the traditional one-off or small order off yer website, the bread and butter of the Dells and OEMs of this world.

I don't know an easy answer to this. Babbling about "choice" is no solution to a company in business to make a profit and where a choice of Linux might lead to lower income. "Choice" in this case implies a knowledgeable customer interested in technology - probably only a few per cent your potential market.

Either way, I suspect it will take a few years for the gross distortions of the Wintel monopoly to work their way out of the marketplace. A bit of legislation might help to prise away Microsoft's loathsome grip, but I guess that's pretty unlikely given the kind of politicians we have these days.

Anyway, yes, I would love for Dell and HP to do more for Linux, but I don't think it is easy as pie.

Reply Score: 3

Year of Linux Desktops
by Sphinx on Fri 9th Mar 2007 14:33 UTC
Sphinx
Member since:
2005-07-09

HP and Novell. Could be a marriage made in heaven.

So... is it ready now?

Reply Score: 2

never happen
by Robocoastie on Fri 9th Mar 2007 15:49 UTC
Robocoastie
Member since:
2005-09-15

outside of deals for corporations it'll never happen. The support alone would be a nightmare for HP and Dell.

The local screwdriver shop is the only retail channel Linux will ever have and the only channel capable of handling the support.

Reply Score: 2

Novell patent deal
by ubit on Sun 11th Mar 2007 00:09 UTC
ubit
Member since:
2006-09-08

"
Novell does seem to be hard at work regarding interoperability. And we have already seen concrete benefits. Or would you prefer to just take their technology while trashing their company? The license that Novell uses, the GPL, does allow for that, after all.
""

The problem with the patent deal is that it only applies to Novell's customers which is not intended in the GPL. Novell distributes GPL'd software. It's as simple as that.

Reply Score: 2