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As I understand it, Windows Starter is mostly aimed at contries in which the piracy situation is not under control. People who can't afford XP now won't be buying Vista, but they may buy a 'starter' version of Windows XP. Not offering something like this is like leaving money on the table.

Considering that three programs is enough to open a music player, an internet explorer, and an instant messenger, that's good enough for 90% of the people out in Internetland.

you can believe this, piracy is not under control here in rio. street venders have been hawking vista since beta 1. walk into any lanhouse here, and you will never, never find xp starter edition.

That I don't understand. A computer with the guts to handle Vista (at least with aero, one of the key things differentiating it in the public's eye from XP) would cost more than Vista itself. I can't picture people pirating computers, so why Vista (other than that they can). Either they have a bit of money to spend on their machine, or they don't, in which case they won't have a good Vista machine anyway ?

Maybe they are in it for the security updates. Or DX10.. dunno

Anyway, not everything is black and white of course. A computer is cheaper than a computer + vista afterall[/shades of grey]

Edited 2007-03-08 23:38

well, i don't want to wear out my welcome on this article, but i feel certain that most street venders have no idea what it is they are trying to sell, they can only identify with the name microsoft windows. probably most of them don't even have a pc to begin with. so, in perspective that you can not understand why they are trying to sell this....don't feel bad, i've been living here since sept. 2005 and i understand almost nothing at all about brazil.

Edited 2007-03-08 23:53

Agreed. Microsoft's futile efforts to stop piracy merely slow down the pirates. Only legitimate, paying customers are inconvenienced by WGA's draconian tactics or ensnared in WGA's false "positives". Since security in only an illusion, hackers will always find a way to circumvent such measure and enjoy the choicest software free of charge. Those more ethically minded among us will simply switch to free, open source software and never look back. Either way, Microsoft loses revenue, but not enough to scratch the surface of their vast empire.

Agreed. Microsoft's futile efforts to stop piracy merely slow down the pirates. Only legitimate, paying customers are inconvenienced by WGA's draconian tactics or ensnared in WGA's false "positives". Since security in only an illusion, hackers will always find a way to circumvent such measure and enjoy the choicest software free of charge. Those more ethically minded among us will simply switch to free, open source software and never look back.

So well said it's worth repeating all of it! I for one hope Microsoft take their anti-piracy measures to the Max!

Either way, Microsoft loses revenue, but not enough to scratch the surface of their vast empire.

Oh, I wouldn't bet on it. Sooner or later they will become an also-ran, a forgotten force. It's the fate of all businesses - and "The higher a statue is raised, the harder and more dangerous the impact when it falls." (Josemaria Escriva de Balaguer)

I wonder with how quickly the activation has been cracked, and made it very easy to do so, if all the time and money and resources Microsoft employed to prevent piracy, if they would have removed the proctection and avtication and sold Vista Ultimate (as the only Vista retail version) for $49.95 each.

I wonder with how quickly the activation has been cracked, and made it very easy to do so, if all the time and money and resources Microsoft employed to prevent piracy, if they would have removed the proctection and avtication and sold Vista Ultimate (as the only Vista retail version) for $49.95 each.

First, without protection, Vista would have been almost immediately incorporated into Linux. Debian Vista, Gentoo Vista, Red Hat Vista, and Vistbuntu would have come out before the beta finished.

Second, that sort of price is silly for an operating system using a legitimate development model. Unlike companies whose business model involves convincing their end users that their giving up their own time and skill to develop for a corporate product is their idea, Microsoft pays its developers six figures, with benefits that leave the rest of the industry (and truth be told, most other industries) behind, and they have never 'downsized' their workers to save a little money.

Edited 2007-03-09 02:47

Microsoft pays its developers six figures, with benefits that leave the rest of the industry (and truth be told, most other industries) behind, and they have never 'downsized' their workers to save a little money.

Linux programmers get paid too. There might be some occational people that contributes code for free, but that could be seen as a cost for marketing for their consulting skills. Nobody is forcing them to contribute.

Most of the Linux developers work in large companies who benefit financially from the success of Linux, and thus are prepared to pay salaries to Linux developers. IBM would be a good example of such a company. They support Linux to sell more servers and consulting services.

Another thing, there are more programmers working in non software related industry doing in house development, than there are in software houses like Microsoft. They get paid because their work facilitates the sales of some non software or even non computer related related product in the same way that IBM manages to sells more servers due to Linux. You may in fact be paying a Linux developer more often than you think. It could be when you fill up your car with gas, or when you buy groceries.

First, without protection, Vista would have been almost immediately incorporated into Linux. Debian Vista, Gentoo Vista, Red Hat Vista, and Vistbuntu would have come out before the beta finished.

You obviously have no idea what you are on about. Vista and Linux code are completely incompatible at the source code level.

Second, that sort of price is silly for an operating system using a legitimate development model.

You're a bit late to get on the "open source is communism" bandwagon. They don't make that kind of petrol no more.

The fact that drivel like the post I'm replying to gets modded up is physically nauseating.

You're a bit late to get on the "open source is communism" bandwagon.

The fact that drivel like the post I'm replying to gets modded up is physically nauseating.

Here in America, we think that people who spend years of their life learning arcane code and mastering organizational techniques in a field that straddles science and art, and then spend years of their life developing complex products when there is strong competition no matter what they work on, should get paid for their work. We also think companies that trick people into doing their work without pay and then go off to make a profit off of it are commiting fraud. These should not be foreign ideas to you.

And as to 'open source is communism' -- have you read the GPL yet? The text of the license is readily available, and it's worth a readthrough before you accidentally use any software released under it.

"You obviously have no idea what you are on about. Vista and Linux code are completely incompatible at the source code level. "

Not to speak of licensing incompatibilities. It is totally irrelevant whether WGA and other authentication schemes are actually implemented.

I call this "junk FUD" ;D

Even at $49.95, folk would still pirate it. I know a fell who is dealing with a crack to the activation on his program, that he sells for $40; who the hell would steal something so cheap? Answer: everybody

Second point is that like most people here, you have completely missed the point of having different versions of Vista. Not everyone has, or needs the kind of machine that Ultimate needs to run, so having only one version at retail wouldn't work.

Having said that though; the seven or eight different versions is way too many.

Not everyone has, or needs the kind of machine that Ultimate needs to run, so having only one version at retail wouldn't work.

Not everyone has the kind of machine needed to run doom3 at full res with all the effects, yet you didn't see ID releasing 5 versions of the game.

What if ID has decided to sell a version that only did up to 1024x768 16bit for half the price. Would you buy that instead if that's all your system could handle?

. Only legitimate, paying customers are inconvenienced by WGA's draconian tactics or ensnared in WGA's false "positives". Since security in only an illusion, hackers will always find a way to circumvent such measure and enjoy the choicest software free of charge.

I wouldn't go that far. When Jane Average, who has an XP CD and gives it to her brother Joe to install on his computer tries to load the OS and it barks at him, Joe's probably not going to know enough to go hunting for an XP crack for WGA that actually works.

I've investigated how to bypass WGA on XP (out of curiosity, as my two copies are legit) and most of the cracks I found would still not let you download updates .. they only disabled the notifications in the system tray. I had to try several before I found one that cracked it completely, and I'm told that using such cracks is like a cat and mouse game, sort of like hacking the firmware on a Sony PSP.

Point being, though it wouldn't do much to stop people with real technical skills who wanted to pirate a copy, I don't think the average person is gonna be able to bypass it, unless they know somebody with said technical skills To be honest, the way I got the crack was to PM a friend of mine who I knew had a hacked copy of XP. If I would've had to scour the bowels of underground to find it myself, I probably wouldn't have bothered.

As for XP Starter, I remember reading an article where it said how many copies they had sold, and though I can't remember the exact number, it was quite a lot. God only knows why, but apparently some people find value in it. I just don't see how you can sell copies in 3rd world country where you can get a full-blown Windows CD for $2 from some crook on the street corner.

Edited 2007-03-09 01:30

twenex: I for one hope Microsoft take their anti-piracy measures to the Max!

Me too. Preventing people's computers from working correctly is supposedly what Microsoft is best at, but they don't seem to be living up to their reputation. If people actually had to pay for Windows, it wouldn't be so damn ubiquitous.

I've investigated how to bypass WGA on XP (out of curiosity, as my two copies are legit) and most of the cracks I found would still not let you download updates

Also great. If people don't upgrade to "more secure" Vista because they don't want to pay, and if people can't get updates for their cracked installs, they will remain incredibly vulnerable to malware.

Things really do have to get worse before they get better. I was hoping that Microsoft's disastrous Vista development cycle would result in a horrifically bad OS, but they churned out something marginally decent instead. Microsoft clearly must continue to release crappy software with frustrating limitations, and they must be more blatant about not caring about their paying customers. Come on guys, quit the gentle prodding, put on the brass knuckles, and give us everything you've got!

First step: get rid of volume licensing for OEMs. Everybody wants the awesome Windows Vista experience, and making it easy for OEMs to provide it is obviously making it harder to keep Vista from working on just anyone's computer. Let OEMs give their customers blank computers and a $20 mail-in rebate coupon for Vista (Ultimate only). Everybody wants Vista, so even if you don't put it on everyone's computer by default, people will still buy it.

When WGA Notifications indicates that someone in the U.S. isn't entitled to the Genuine Advantage (probably because they weren't told how awesome this Advantage is), they are obviously breaking the DMCA. Issue a summons and encourage them to settle for $3,000 within two weeks in order to prevent a lawsuit. It's your responsibility to your customers to make sure they receive their Advantage and that they do so in the most Genuine way.

Finally, it's a proven fact that Microsoft knows best how their customers should be using their Vista computers. People don't exercise proper judgment when using their PCs. They even install software and click on links that Microsoft's top executives have never even heard of!! Stop the madness, and just tell your customers that there's thousands of applications and millions of links that work with Vista, so many that there's no reason to want anything else. If they insist, just trigger a hard reboot and a mandatory file system check. That'll teach them.

Nothing will change until the sh*t hits the fan. No ridiculously limited and patronizing Windows version for developing nations is going to be enough for the feces to make it all the way to wherever they put the fan (if anyone can even find it). We just need to wait for Microsoft to realize once again that being an enormous proprietary software monopolist is boring unless you really piss your customers off... and do so in a remarkably Genuine manner.

I'm having a lot of difficulty trying to figure out what you're saying here. Are you saying that you want Microsoft to suck so that alternatives can have a chance or are you saying that Microsoft isn't interesting enough because it doesn't fit the archetype of the evil monopolistic corporation to the Tee?

~Confused~

I'm saying that Microsoft sucks, but they don't suck hard enough for most consumers to care. Alternatives that suck much less are being held back by the fact that people put up with Microsoft's suckiness. It Microsoft sucked just a bit more, the market would move to solutions that don't suck as much, and mostly likely those platforms will begin to suck much less because of the greater marketshare. Ultimately we might end up with one or more platforms that don't suck.

Microsoft could decide to suck less, but that would make the situation suck more in the long run, because Microsoft probably won't ever release a platform that doesn't suck. If they did, it would probably blow.

I hope that clears things up.

Agreed. Microsoft's futile efforts to stop piracy merely slow down the pirates.
---------

This may be true, but the effort probably makes the investors feel better.

As I understand it, Windows Starter is mostly aimed at contries in which the piracy situation is not under control.

Which countries do have piracy under control?

The ones where you can't buy pirated software/movies at most street corners.

Not fully under control, but at least mostly controlled off the internet.

with all the current fuss being devoted to the release of vista, isn't this something like an afterthought ?

This isn't a new product. XPSE has been available since 2003. There is also a Vista version of SE:

Fact Sheet:
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/newsroom/windows/factsheets/WinV...

Overview:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=0752507e-a...

Product Page:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/editions/sta...

Edited 2007-03-09 02:43

I will never purchase Windows Vista it is the slowest mess with UAC prompt boxes popping up all over the place like popcorn.

Yeah, cuz God knows Fedora Core doesn't put up any login prompts when you attempt to exceed your current user privileges ... /sarcasm

Yeah, cuz God knows Fedora Core doesn't put up any login prompts when you attempt to exceed your current user privileges ... /sarcasm

I totally agree even trying to change the background or anything else it dims to black and has a prompt box. This is out of control all because they built an operating system that had to be ran in Administrator in order to run certain programs. In a Linux distro you can run programs under your regular user account. If you need configure system files or updates yes you need root otherwise you do not need to tinker with it.

MS has dug a hole and had to go backwards implementing security after having full access not trying to get down to none. It cannot be done with causing nothing but problems and this is evident by UAC. Too little to later in my opinion and they have created a monolith of disaster!

The best thing they could do is to build a kernel and start with implementing security in it and building modules to operate outside this area. But then again we already a secure, efficient multi-threading operating system built choose your favorite Linux distro!
:)

You know you can turn of the UAC prompts?

type msconfig.exe in run, in wondow that appears go to tools tab and down the list find "disable UAC..." and run it. Then reboot.

Voila.

You know you can turn of the UAC prompts?

Yeah, but if you do what happens to the security "improvements"?

One more reason to stick with XP or (better) switch to something else.

This isn't even about Vista.

This isn't even about Vista.

Oh, good. In that case it stands a chance of having some relevance!

No right-clicking? Maybe they should add a wav of Nelson going "Ha-ha" every time you click the right mouse button.

And if they dont do it i want a crack that allows me to .. lol .. brilliant !

"I find the minimum reasonable hardware for XP (any version) is Pentium III 400+ with 192M RAM and EIDE drive."

I think you'll find that is also the minimum for any mainstream Linux-based OS running KDE or Gnome. If people want the features, they will pay for it in bloat. I wouldn't run (K)Ubuntu, Fedora, or Suse in anything less than that either.

You can get modern distros that run well on lesser hardware, but they all use alternative window managers, such as XFCE or something like blackbox, these are very good WM's, but are not full DE's like KDE or Gnome.

That is odd, expect them to start charging for wordpad.

Do you really think that someone who buys Windows Starter will have money to buy a legit copy of Microsoft Office?