Linked by Eugenia Loli on Sun 1st Apr 2007 01:52 UTC, submitted by TJ
BeOS & Derivatives "With Haiku getting closer and closer to an R1 release I think it is time for little review on the achievements of the development team in the last months. Haiku is being covered on various websites and blogs lately especially after attending SCaLE and the already famous tech talk at Google. But although it might seem that Haiku is only weeks away from the so important first release there is still a lot of work that has to be done, networking being the biggest." More here.
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Flash and java
by zizban on Sun 1st Apr 2007 03:00 UTC
zizban
Member since:
2005-07-06

Whileyou can live without both, a desktop OS needs both. I used nothing but Zeta for a week and while I am no fan of Flash, i found not having flash was a bigger problem than I imagined.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Flash and java
by Polari on Sun 1st Apr 2007 03:35 UTC in reply to "Flash and java"
Polari Member since:
2006-02-24

Gnash is being ported to BeOS by Michael Lotz (who is also working on the USB stack for Haiku). IsComputerOn had a story about it late last year: http://joomla.iscomputeron.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=vi...

Admittedly it isn't the ideal solution, but it's a solid second-best.

Bryan Varner and Andrew Bachmann were working on a Java port a couple of years ago, but I don't believe they ever made a release. Both are still active in the Haiku community though and with Sun open sourcing Java, perhaps we haven't seen the last of it?

Reply Score: 5

RE: Flash and java
by CPUGuy on Sun 1st Apr 2007 03:40 UTC in reply to "Flash and java"
CPUGuy Member since:
2005-07-06

Why do we need java?

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Flash and java
by umccullough on Sun 1st Apr 2007 04:00 UTC in reply to "RE: Flash and java"
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

Why do we need java?

Yahoo games!

http://bryan.varnernet.com/2004/12/24/merry-christmas/

Edit: added URL for clarification ;)

Edited 2007-04-01 04:05

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Flash and java
by meianoite on Sun 1st Apr 2007 06:46 UTC in reply to "RE: Flash and java"
meianoite Member since:
2006-04-05

A note for the impatient: I'm writing these lines last, after realising the text below grew too big for the average attention span the typical comment tends to receive. So, here's the essence of it: If Haiku [or any non-mainstream OS for the matter] is to become something else other than the second, third or fourth operating system listed on an enthusiast's boot loader menu, it must support enterprise-class applications and resources. This is a barrier that neither Apple, nor any Linux distro, nor any other OS has overcome, except for Windows. And that's the single reason it's still the most widespread operating system. People expect everything to be available for Windows, and the reason is that Windows supports everything the mainstream industry demands.

If the last paragraph caugth your attention, please read on. If not, feel free to skip the rest of this post entirely. Your call ;)


And, PLEASE, note: I'm not saying Haiku is doomed or anything like that; I'm just stating the obvious, and the very reason why ANY OS will have extreme difficulty in debunking Windows. I'm using Java as the main example here because that's what was questioned by the parent comment, but any specialty software artifacts will do, from grocery store accounting to textile industry CAD systems.

If for no other reason, people tend to have day jobs. IT people tend to program using whatever languages their bosses ask them to. Be it C# or Java, they are real, they are widely deployed, and sometimes you can't help but bring some work to your home.

If Haiku is to become something else other than the second, third or fourth operating system listed on an enthusiast's boot loader menu, it must support enterprise-class applications and resources. So, yes, an office application is necessary, as are a handful of popular development environments, like C#, Java, Python, Ruby, C, C++, Perl. The latest 5 are somewhat taken care of, but the first two are missing.

You may have any opinion you wish regarding C# and Java, but they *are* the means to feed quite some number of families out there. If you are a career programmer, 9 out of 10 times those are the languages you'll be dealing with.

With regards to consumer deliverables, you may have a point there. Flash has almost completely obliterated the very presence of Java applets, but the world is so ridiculously bigger then what is effectively delivered to consumers. Think about web application backends. JSP, ASP, J2EE, SOAP; these are not the "circles" that adopt RoR or Zope or Drupal or whatever, those are the *norm*.

I'm sure you realise a diamond (a delivered service) is *very* different from cutting equipment (the backend). The mere fact you only stare at the shiny stuff doesn't preclude the existence of noisy machinery or dull gemstones. Yet, it's by selling those backend artifacts that miners and machinery industries earn their money. And these are billion-dollars businesses. Something not to sneeze at.

So, I repeat myself: If Haiku [or any non-mainstream OS for the matter] is to become something else other than the second, third or fourth operating system listed on an enthusiast's boot loader menu, it must support enterprise-class applications and resources.

The only path to world domination is widespread adoption, and the key to widespread adoption is to play safe. In order to play safe, you must support legacy systems very well, you must have a smooth and well-defined roadmap, and you must pace your innovation in tandem with whatever industry constitutes your base.

We often praise colossal failures stating that said product was "ahead of its time". No, that's a misconception. It was expensive. It was difficult to use. It demanded a steep learning curve. It was disruptive with regards to established practises. It was too slow to be viable on consumer hardware. In a nutshell, it violated the simple guidelines stated in the last paragraph.

That's the reason Microsoft built it's empire. It played safe.
That's the reason Apple almost died in the mid-90s. It introduced too many technologies not ready for mass consumption and TRIED to sell them to the general public.
That's the reason Apple made its comeback. They simplified their product lines and STOPPED trying to sell them to the general public.
That's the reason Apple is rising with no ceiling in sight. They fostered a whole industry and can now capitalise on the fact that what was niche has now became commoditised. Ready for mass consumption. Widely accepted. And, no surprises, they're now in a position of dominance. But NOT in the personal computer market.

Really, no surprises.

But "giving up on the personal computer" is only working for Apple because they found another channel to trojan-horse themselves into people's houses: by dominating part of the consumer electronics market. The "iPod halo effect" is all abou this, and, ultimately, this ecosystem can grow big enough to recreate the opportunity to re-establish itself as a leading personal computer vendor.

That is somewhat is backwards from Microsoft's strategy: they trojan-horsed themselves into people's houses by dominating the business applications market, and NOW they're attempting to get into consumer electronics. And much like the personal computer has been a bumpy road to Apple, the consumer electronics market at large is being all but smooth to Microsoft, and the Xbox 360 is only as successful as the amount of money MS shovels into it. It's still not a self-sustaining ecosystem, and, despite claims in contrary, I believe it won't be for quite some time. But I digress.

Both business apps and consumer electronics were but niches once, but both have now scaled into commodity, trillion-dollars-sized markets. How big is Haiku's [or, once more, any non-mainstream OS for the matter] niche, and how large a size can it scale to in order to reach trojan-horse-able critical mass?

But of course, this whole discussion only holds if you have any hopes for Haiku to become anything larger than a niche product. If the goal is to satisfy a niche market, well then, Java is definitely unnecessary. Else, the game must be played by the current rules, and they do dictate that, for it to gain widespread adoption, the operating system must support enterprise-class applications and resources, the latter mostly comprising quality development tools for the top (in terms of deployment) contemporary programming languages.

Not surprisingly (as well), that's the one barrier Apple hasn't overcome yet. Neither has Linux. And until then, Microsoft is, sadly, safe.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Flash and java
by stestagg on Sun 1st Apr 2007 10:41 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Flash and java"
stestagg Member since:
2006-06-03

Spoken like a true manager.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Flash and java
by Savior on Sun 1st Apr 2007 13:45 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Flash and java"
Savior Member since:
2006-09-02

No, he spoke like someone who has a job, and who knows how IT is working.

Anyway, I do hope that with Sun open sourcing Java, it won't be that difficult to port it to Haiku (it's POSIX compliant, isn't it?).

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: Flash and java
by Bully on Sun 1st Apr 2007 11:26 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Flash and java"
Bully Member since:
2006-04-07

It would seem to me that to 'support enterprise-class applications and resources', they just need something like Wine.
And Haiku is supose to be POSIX compatible, so it should be possible.

Edited 2007-04-01 11:30

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Flash and java
by StephenBeDoper on Sun 1st Apr 2007 14:23 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Flash and java"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Your post makes some generally good points, but your argument trips over the assertion its foundation:

So, I repeat myself: If Haiku [or any non-mainstream OS for the matter] is to become something else other than the second, third or fourth operating system listed on an enthusiast's boot loader menu, it must support enterprise-class applications and resources.


That's a bit of a sweeping generalization. While it may be true if you're talking about statistical majority, the problem with basing an argument on a generalization is that it's extraordinarily easy to "disprove" - only a single counter example is required. And when you're talking about the statistical majority of a few hundred million people, that leaves quite a lot of room in the margins.

The only path to world domination is widespread adoption, and the key to widespread adoption is to play safe.


Why assume that world domination is the goal of the Haiku project? Or that it will only be a success it it achieves world domination?

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Flash and java
by gtada on Mon 2nd Apr 2007 04:33 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Flash and java"
gtada Member since:
2005-10-12

In order to play safe, you must support legacy systems very well, you must have a smooth and well-defined roadmap, and you must pace your innovation in tandem with whatever industry constitutes your base.


Reading your post (or skimming it rather), it seems quite evident that you don't understand why BeOS was created. The whole idea for Be was to create an OS without legacy cruft.

Maybe you'd argue that that makes for crappy business. Maybe. Be is gone. But, I don't think the driving force behind Haiku is to make money or take over the OS market (hence the MIT-style license); I think it's to recreate a phenomenal experience. If that's the purpose, I truly hope they DO NOT relegate themselves to playing safe, copying Windows/OSX/Linux, and ultimately trying to catch up for years of inactivity.

MEDIA OS. I for one could give a crap less about OOo or any other pedestrian application. Windows will always do those better. It feels like a waste to do mundane tasks like spreadsheets on Haiku. Seriously, would you ever think of taking an F1 race car to the supermarket? Please.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Flash and java
by raver31 on Sun 1st Apr 2007 08:49 UTC in reply to "RE: Flash and java"
raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

You are not serious are you ?

I work for a company which has Solaris servers, Windows 2000 desktops, Linux and XP in the homes and we all use a VPN to run the cross platform java apps that our company uses.

Where else are we going to get a solution like that ?
Or are you one of these people who think we should bin all our servers and go for 100% Microsoft ?

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Flash and java
by cb_osn on Sun 1st Apr 2007 09:59 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Flash and java"
cb_osn Member since:
2006-02-26

I work for a company which has Solaris servers, Windows 2000 desktops, Linux and XP in the homes and we all use a VPN to run the cross platform java apps that our company uses.

I can appreciate that, but it seems to me that Haiku positions itself as a media-oriented desktop OS. I can't see what Java would have to offer in that role.

Unless, of course, you were assuming that the OP was referring to Java in general rather than Java in the context of Haiku.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Flash and java
by stestagg on Sun 1st Apr 2007 10:43 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Flash and java"
stestagg Member since:
2006-06-03

...well. What's wrong with a pen?
[ducks]

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Flash and java
by petera on Sun 1st Apr 2007 10:41 UTC in reply to "RE: Flash and java"
petera Member since:
2006-04-22

"Why do we need java?"

Although this is the immediate response from 90% of the people out there, if a full Java client was up and running it would only take a short amount of time to port apps such as Open Office and Bit torrent clients like Azureus.

That's just 2 off the top of my head that would make the OS seem more mature and able to work with on a day-to-day period. I'm sure others out there could come up with a few more "killer" apps.

Edited 2007-04-01 10:51

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Flash and java
by smitty on Sun 1st Apr 2007 10:57 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Flash and java"
smitty Member since:
2005-10-13

if a full Java client was up and running it would only take a short amount of time to port apps such as Open Office and ...

OOo is mostly C++ code, and can run without java at all by losing a couple features. It's not easy to port - Zeta attempted to do so and mapped out around a hundred dependencies they needed to port before even starting on OOo itself.

Getting java working would immediately allow a lot of new apps to run, but I don't think it is that essential to have working right away for the market it is going after. Once the core system is working well, though, I would really like to see java working.

Edited 2007-04-01 11:02

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Flash and java
by anevilyak on Sun 1st Apr 2007 17:56 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Flash and java"
anevilyak Member since:
2005-09-14

OOo is mostly C++ code, and can run without java at all by losing a couple features. It's not easy to port - Zeta attempted to do so and mapped out around a hundred dependencies they needed to port before even starting on OOo itself.


The problem isn't Java for OOo at runtime, it's the fact that OOo's build system makes use of it. Thus without Java you either have to rewrite their build system (certainly not a trivial task), or you cannot effectively even get started on porting, any other dependencies notwithstanding.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Flash and java
by CPUGuy on Mon 2nd Apr 2007 02:54 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Flash and java"
CPUGuy Member since:
2005-07-06

Why do we need Azureus?

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Flash and java
by dylansmrjones on Mon 2nd Apr 2007 08:59 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Flash and java"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

Don't know - it beats me. Try transmission instead.

Edited 2007-04-02 08:59

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Flash and java
by Soulbender on Mon 2nd Apr 2007 09:53 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Flash and java"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"if a full Java client was up and running it would only take a short amount of time to port apps such as Open Office "

Java does not reduce the porting time of Open Office. OO.o does not require Java in any way, shape or form.

Edit: Forgot that it is needed to build OO.o. Duh.

"and Bit torrent clients like Azureus."

BeOS/Haiku already have at least Transmission so it don't really see this is an urgent need.

Edited 2007-04-02 09:56

Reply Score: 2

RE: Flash and java
by antenna on Sun 1st Apr 2007 05:56 UTC in reply to "Flash and java"
antenna Member since:
2006-10-22

Interesting, being on 64 bit (Linux) for over a year now, I've found that I really don't miss Flash at all. I suppose I have always had a mild dislike for it though.

(Have no use for Java either).

Edited 2007-04-01 05:57

Reply Score: 4

Very nice..
by hhcv on Sun 1st Apr 2007 05:51 UTC
hhcv
Member since:
2005-11-12

While Haiku does not offer a "desktop" experience as comprehensive as GNOME or KDE, it will be my first pick before SkyOS, ReactOS, Syllable, etc.

I'm not trying to start a flame war here, and I am certainly not making any statements about the merit of each. It's just that Haiku looks clean, clear and in control.. Which appeals to me.

Reply Score: 2

My Mediacenter
by Haicube on Sun 1st Apr 2007 07:08 UTC
Haicube
Member since:
2005-08-06

Everybody probably has their ambitions and their wishes for a system. Mine, at the moment, is quite simple. I'm forced to use Windows on some occassions due to apps not available on other platforms.

However, my mediacenter is waiting for Haiku. A lightweight operating system able to show movies etc etc with a whole lot of graze. I got the DLP Projector, I got the Phat sound built up, only thing missing is a competent Mediacenter. Summer is up, so not gonna be using it a lot, but a lovely present would be Haiku R1 for autumn and having the coolest solution for home cinema of quite a few people =)

Checking TRAC almost daily, it's definitely so that a lot of bugs are still in there. That's how life is, but also checking TRAC and MLs, you notice that suddenly Haiku community is not shrinking, it's gaining new people which is a sign that they've overcome the big obstacle of loosing people until getting something running. That means future holds promise.

Good job everyone!

Reply Score: 5

v re
by Oliver on Sun 1st Apr 2007 10:05 UTC
RE: re
by BlackJack75 on Sun 1st Apr 2007 12:54 UTC in reply to "re"
BlackJack75 Member since:
2005-08-29

One word: blasphemy :-)

Seriously, where were you before 1999? BeOS was all the rage at some point. Never been mainstream but at some point it was the OS I used the most.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Flash and java
by 10wattmindtrip on Sun 1st Apr 2007 11:36 UTC
10wattmindtrip
Member since:
2007-04-01

meianoite wrote:

"The only path to world domination is widespread adoption, and the key to widespread adoption is to play safe."

Who said anything about Haiku wanting world domination? I don't recall ever seeing those guys predicting anything of the sort.
Sure they might *want* java or flash support. Sure, they may want a proper Office app or enterprise things... But all that *stuff* comes within time.. We're not talking about gods here... We're talking about people who wanted to continue the BeOS environment in an open source way. For the community. For the *people*.
If someone wants to port, say, OpenOffice.org, then let them. If someone wants to port java, then let it be so. Same goes with C# (Mono).
Haiku has to EVOLVE into a complete Operating System. It just doesn't happen over the span of a few years with the amount of devs working on it. Let the system evolve like Linux did and does. I for one see more and more of the "big guns" taking a rather kind liking to Linux now. Flash on 64bit Linux works like a charm even running a 64bit browser (I'm speaking from a Gentoo standpoint). OpenOffice does everything I want it to do and I'm no wimp when it comes to productivity.
Haiku can and probably will achieve many, if not all of the things necessary to become a real player in the OS world.
Who cares about world domination, really? That's the beauty of open source; you don't have to even worry about it.. It'll just evolve into something great.

Reply Score: 5

good
by gelosilente on Sun 1st Apr 2007 13:08 UTC
gelosilente
Member since:
2006-08-13

haiku/beos seems a very good os, i hope in a powerpc port too.

Reply Score: 2

hobbiest OS, Haiku?
by macisaac on Sun 1st Apr 2007 13:34 UTC
macisaac
Member since:
2005-08-28

That's actually what I'd be interested in at this point, something divorced from "enterprise readiness", wide ranging commercial aspirations, delusions (or realities) of world domination, exclusive cliquishness, high price tags, or some deeply entrenched liberation ideology and all the other things that circle the big name OSes of today.

It's not that I don't like the big name OSes, but they've all lost that charm of an OS which exists purely for the fun of it. Linux is my day job, and when that happens, it ceases to be as "fun" as before for a number of folk, not to mention my current insistence on (largely) divorcing my work life from my home and otherwise life. Windows makes a decent home machine for writing papers on and playing games, but how many people really think of Windows as being "fun" in and of itself? Macs, yeah, still a niche of sorts, but I have issues there too.

What I'd like to play with is an OS which is through and through hobbiest. Something that fun to mess around with, but with no real hopes of ever being something you'd see in a corporate office. No politics, just good enjoyment. It'd help if it works on my hardware of course, and there has to be somewhat of a selection of apps (preferably ones that exclusive to said platform), but technical perfection is far from necessary. Could Haiku eventually fit the bill?

(for some reason I'm reminded of the Coleco ADAM, a system I didn't own but admired at the time (had a friend who was really into it.) the machine never got really popular, but even to this day there are still folks trying to keep the things chugging, again, just for the fun of an underdog platform they enjoy messing around with and playing on)

Reply Score: 4

Haiku
by rx182 on Sun 1st Apr 2007 14:43 UTC
rx182
Member since:
2005-07-08

I strongly believe in Haiku. It's like the best of both world: you get all the command line power of Linux with a capable GUI like Windows (capable = fast, clean, consistent, etc.)

It's like a free OSX but with a desktop metaphor like Windows. And it got one awesome API to write applications (seriously, this was the strongest point of BeOS).

Now, I wish they would call it GNU/Haiku so FOSS people would work on it more. I still don't understand why it doesn't reach more people. I can't explain it.

The GUI is awesome. I think the people are too tied to the Linux kernel. Maybe Haiku should have been based on Linux from the start. There's nothing that can stop someone from implementing the GUI on top of kernel instead of user space. Maybe they wanted to much the binary compatibility with R5. Maybe they don't like the Linux kernel. Maybe I'm wrong? ;)

Anyway, Haiku has high potential!

Reply Score: 4

RE: Haiku
by unavowed on Sun 1st Apr 2007 22:26 UTC in reply to "Haiku"
unavowed Member since:
2006-03-23

The reason may be that they didn't want to use the GPL for their system, and went for a MIT-like license instead (though they could have used the BSDs, of course)

Reply Score: 1

Focus
by Vibe on Sun 1st Apr 2007 15:42 UTC
Vibe
Member since:
2007-03-12

I'm happy if Haiku can deliver a solid R1 out of the box experience before getting into issues like Java, movie CODEC's, and applications. It's likely that plenty of time will be soaked up with post-release issues, and developer and end-user interaction. I'd rather this went well than promising too much and delivering nothing or a mess. It's not as if there's a rush.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Flash and java
by Tuishimi on Sun 1st Apr 2007 15:43 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

What? We DITCHED MS Windows because we needed a robust J2EE solution. All of our systems run on HP machines running RedHat Linux and Oracle Application Server (and Oracle 10g+).

Granted I can't stand OAS, but... still... Even when our web applications DID run on Windows, our database was still on a unix machine.

The latest talk is to migrate our users to RedHat. The only thing stopping us is that our whole inter-communication structure is built on Microsoft Exchange/Office. ;)

Reply Score: 2

Networking first.
by Tuishimi on Sun 1st Apr 2007 15:48 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

I think if they got the networking up, then more people who enjoy hobby OS's would start using it, and more of the standard BeOS users would start using AND developing for it. I would bet some people would start poking at bugs or missing pieces even. The biggest missing piece and the biggest think stopping people from starting to adopt Haiku is the networking.

I don't mean to sound harsh, I have been waiting and waiting for Haiku and am still waiting! When that good Alpha or first Beta version comes out that is more or less functionally complete, I am on it! I'll go out and buy new equipment for it!

Reply Score: 2

RE: Networking first.
by umccullough on Sun 1st Apr 2007 16:06 UTC in reply to "Networking first."
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

What problem are you exactly referring to with the networking?

There are plenty of examples of Haiku running network/web-based apps already! Various protocols have been tested and work reasonably well already.

ping (ICMP)
Vision (IRC)
Net+/Firefox (HTTP)
ftp/FtpPositive (FTP)
wget

Granted, there are still bugs hidden in the netstack...

My experience is that drivers and an official bootable/installable disc image are the largest roadblocks. It would also help greatly if Haiku was self-hosting - but that requires more kernel work.

So, your last point is the valid one - waiting for official alpha/beta release is what is probably stopping you.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Networking first.
by Tuishimi on Sun 1st Apr 2007 16:13 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

Maybe it's just me then? None of the builds I am grabbing seem to have networking (no prefpane or anything)? So it could just be "user error."

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Networking first.
by umccullough on Sun 1st Apr 2007 16:42 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Networking first."
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

Preferences are not complete - but net_server does start, and should at least get you an IP address from the DHCP server.

You may have to subsequently run ifconfig/route from the commandline, and probably create a /etc/resolv.conf file for your nameserver.

There are various threads in the forums and/or mailing list you can probably dig up - otherwise running ifconfig or route from the commandline should give you some usage text to help.

Patience on the prefs panel ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Networking first.
by ple_mono on Sun 1st Apr 2007 18:25 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Networking first."
ple_mono Member since:
2005-07-26

Maybe it's just me then? None of the builds I am grabbing seem to have networking (no prefpane or anything)? So it could just be "user error."

I had internet access without lifting a finger when i ran r20395. I used wget to download firefox 2 ;)

Edited 2007-04-01 18:26

Reply Score: 3

Flash, Java, and VMWare player for OS X
by Sabon on Sun 1st Apr 2007 16:40 UTC
Sabon
Member since:
2005-07-06

Yes we need Flash and Java for Haiku. OpenGL is needed too.

Is there a VMWare player for Mac OS X? I went to the download site listed in the article and it only shows for windows and Linux.

Reply Score: 1

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

OpenGL is needed too.

Done! ;)

(Disclaimer: you didn't specify hardware acceleration)

Edit:

BTW, the VMWare for OS X is called VMWare Fusion - it's beta and you'll see it on the vmware website if you look a bit more.

http://www.vmware.com/products/beta/fusion/

Edited 2007-04-01 17:18

Reply Score: 3

schmedly Member since:
2006-08-08

What has happened to Rudolf's hardware accelerated driver? Is it still usable? I've got some things I'd like to port to Haiku.

Reply Score: 1

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

I'm not sure Rudolf's 3d driver is even in the Haiku repo honestly - but I'm sure someone has the source laying around waiting for an opportunity to adapt it to Haiku's OpenGL Mesa port (current 6.5.2 it appears)

If I recall, Rudolf's 3d driver was integrated with an older port of Mesa (3.6.1?) and would require some re-work to make it work with newer Mesa versions. Haiku's new model is designed to provide a full Mesa software renderer, with optional hardware accelerated "add-on" drivers - so that probably adds a level of porting effort to Rudolf's driver as well.

So, you can port OpenGL apps to Haiku in anticipation of hardware acceleration, but you will probably be stuck waiting for someone to adapt Rudolf's nVidia work to Haiku's OGL implementation. My *guess* is that Haiku R1 may not have much (if any) 3d hardware acceleration ;) - It's just not much of a priority I suspect.

Furthermore, porting software to BeOS R5 running Rudolf's driver would probably be 95% of the way there anyhow!

Reply Score: 4

Sabon Member since:
2005-07-06

"OpenGL is needed too.

Done! ;)

(Disclaimer: you didn't specify hardware acceleration)

Edit:

BTW, the VMWare for OS X is called VMWare Fusion - it's beta and you'll see it on the vmware website if you look a bit more.

http://www.vmware.com/products/beta/fusion/ "

Thanks umccullough

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Networking first.
by Tuishimi on Sun 1st Apr 2007 16:45 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

I'll give it another shot! I am running in VMWare...

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Networking first.
by umccullough on Sun 1st Apr 2007 16:48 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Networking first."
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

You can always visit #haiku on irc.freenode.net - someone there can usually help as well.

Good luck!

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Networking first.
by Tuishimi on Sun 1st Apr 2007 18:47 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

Dagnabbit. I am having all sorts of issues, won't allow me to use my keyboard in terminal (VMWare) and won't boot in Parallels even after resizing the .hdd.

I guess I'll hit irc and get some help there.

Reply Score: 2

Nice one
by flywheel on Sun 1st Apr 2007 21:18 UTC
flywheel
Member since:
2005-12-28

I'm really looking forward to the first release - way to go :o)

Reply Score: 1

A waist of time
by flywheel on Mon 2nd Apr 2007 06:32 UTC
flywheel
Member since:
2005-12-28

Hmm - it seems like a lot of people here doesn't want stuff like flash, Java and OO.O ported to Haiku.

Well I for one would hate to be forced to reboot every time I'll need to perform even the tiniest productivity task or every time I'll got the need to saddle up NetBeans.
It could be that you guys live for the rebooting experience, but to me it is just a waste of time, racecar or no racecar.

Edited 2007-04-02 06:34

Reply Score: 5

RE: A waste of time
by Vibe on Mon 2nd Apr 2007 10:18 UTC in reply to "A waist of time"
Vibe Member since:
2007-03-12

Hmm - it seems like a lot of people here doesn't want stuff like flash, Java and OO.O ported to Haiku.

There's people who want everything, and people who want nothing. It's all talk, just talk. I'm content with seeing R1 get done right. After that, I'd like to see anything developed for Haiku observe the GUI experience and not drag in the usual open source issues. Anything else is a distraction.

My issue with Azurus and Open Office et al is the feature chasing and sloppy user experience. Too many programmers chase the rainbow and ignore the customer, and it leads to bloated and unusuable product. As with getting R1 out the gate, I see no need to rush.

Edited 2007-04-02 10:22

Reply Score: 2

v RE: A waist of time
by Steven on Mon 2nd Apr 2007 14:42 UTC in reply to "A waist of time"
RE[2]: A waist of time
by Alchemy on Mon 2nd Apr 2007 15:40 UTC in reply to "RE: A waist of time"
Alchemy Member since:
2007-03-24

Steven,

"I'm not sure how flash fits into your need to be productive either, unless you happen to be a web developer? "

My personal need for FLASH is because I cannot get into certain sites without it. Go to http://www.buell.com and you won't get anywhere without flash. It seems to me there may be a way to get FireFox to spoof having FLASH available so that I could get into the site running Zeta but I have not found it. If anyone can find a solution (other than booting into Windows) to this I would be grateful.

I don't like animation on sites or video for that matter and this FLASH requirement drives me nuts.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: A waist of time
by Haicube on Mon 2nd Apr 2007 18:01 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: A waist of time"
Haicube Member since:
2005-08-06

I can surely see your point here, obviously there are a lot of broken websites using features disliked by it's users. If you're forced to use them, I can only say I'm sorry, but if you do have a choice, let their statistics show how lost they are by simply not visiting.

I do believe however there is room for flash, it can make a lovely experience on some occassions, but most of the time it's just annoying!

Reply Score: 2

RE: A waist of time
by gtada on Mon 2nd Apr 2007 19:47 UTC in reply to "A waist of time"
gtada Member since:
2005-10-12

Hmm - it seems like a lot of people here doesn't want stuff like flash, Java and OO.O ported to Haiku.

Well I for one would hate to be forced to reboot every time I'll need to perform even the tiniest productivity task or every time I'll got the need to saddle up NetBeans.
It could be that you guys live for the rebooting experience, but to me it is just a waste of time, racecar or no racecar.


To be honest, from what you've written I don't think you're the type of user Be was targeting nor are you the type who'll enjoy a hobby OS much if you can't stand rebooting. --shrugs-- That's kinda the nature of hobby OSes, no?

BeOS was meant to be a "pure" experience with as little to slow it down as possible.

In a big way, Java is the anti-thesis of BeOS. Cross-platform compatibility == cruft. Performance should be the main focus for Haiku (if they want to stay true to the Be vision). BeOS is a race car, like it or not. Porting Java to Be/Haiku is akin to installing and using air conditioning on an F1 race car (adds weight and robs power).

Here's what I think a lot of people are missing: Be wasn't meant to do ordinary tasks. It's a MEDIA OS. It's not a server OS, nor is it meant for office work. Maybe I'm the one who's getting it wrong, but I don't get why people aren't clamoring for media applications (audio, video, etc.) instead of Java or OOo, cuz I think Windows, OSX, and Linux have that other stuff covered pretty damned well.

Reply Score: 1

v Is... it... possible?
by Luposian on Mon 2nd Apr 2007 07:58 UTC
RE: Is... it... possible?
by Bully on Mon 2nd Apr 2007 11:57 UTC in reply to "Is... it... possible?"
Bully Member since:
2006-04-07

You sound like someone who just had a ufo land in his back yard and met an allien. lol

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Is... it... possible?
by umccullough on Mon 2nd Apr 2007 18:03 UTC in reply to "RE: Is... it... possible?"
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

Actually, he sounds like someone who has worked up such a mental/psychological block about this particular bug that he can't possibly believe that it *might* eventually get fixed if the developers keep working on the kernel.

It's almost uncanny how in-development software seems to improve with every check-in, isn't it?

Yes, I'm being an ass...

Reply Score: 4

GRAMMAR FTW
by clydemaxwell on Mon 2nd Apr 2007 13:28 UTC
clydemaxwell
Member since:
2007-04-02

Way to end the subject line in a preposition, dude.

Reply Score: 2

RE: GRAMMAR FTW
by Steven on Mon 2nd Apr 2007 13:57 UTC in reply to "GRAMMAR FTW"
Steven Member since:
2005-07-20

Indeed, what is with the new trend of being completely retarded in an attempt to be "hip" with news releases and advertising?

Oh wait, the whole article is that way.
"After the first boot into Haiku the first thing I noticed were the shiny new icons, good looking!"

...

I don't care if English is a first, second, third, fourth, or ninetieth language, an abortion of an article like this is disgusting.

And the worst part is that the gut instinct is to associate this article with the actual development team, which makes someone think they are all stupid jerk-offs (which obviously isn't the case).

Yeah, yeah, I'm whining about something unimportant, blah blah. Folks, if you can't be bothered to write with a proficiency above that of a 4th grader, why do you expect people to read it? If someone does an article like this, and it's a person's first exposure to the project... well, I can pretty much guarantee they won't be making any donations.

Reply Score: 2