Linked by Eugenia Loli on Thu 19th Apr 2007 18:13 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu The Ubuntu team is proud to announce version 7.04 of the Ubuntu family of distributions (more info here and here). Ubuntu 7.04 is also the basis for new 7.04 releases of Kubuntu (screenshots) and Edubuntu. Ubuntu 7.04 will be supported for 18 months on both desktops and servers. Here is a review of Feisty Fawn, and it also seems that Michael Dell has it installed too. Get it while it's hot.
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just the best
by bullethead on Thu 19th Apr 2007 18:22 UTC
bullethead
Member since:
2005-07-10

congrats to everyone on the successful release.

Reply Score: 4

Great!
by maxx_730 on Thu 19th Apr 2007 18:27 UTC
maxx_730
Member since:
2005-12-14

This is a great release. Especially the easy codec and graphics driver installment will make this release extra user friendly and will keep Ubuntu on top of the distro market, IMO.

Reply Score: 4

congrats devs and community
by netpython on Thu 19th Apr 2007 18:28 UTC
netpython
Member since:
2005-07-06

I hereby congratulate the devs and the Ubuntu community at large with the release of Feisty Fawn.And i hope its users will enjoy this release as much as i did and still do.

Reply Score: 5

Cool
by Xaero_Vincent on Thu 19th Apr 2007 18:31 UTC
Xaero_Vincent
Member since:
2006-08-18

So what security features does Fiesty have?

SELinux, ExecShield, ELFDH, RKMA, Smash Stack, etc. ?

If it has all the security features Fedora has out of the box and all 20,000 packages are compiled with support in mind, I'll definitely try it.

If it has some, I give Ubuntu devs one thumb up and hope to see more in 7.10.

Edited 2007-04-19 18:35

Reply Score: 5

RE: Cool
by miscz on Thu 19th Apr 2007 18:40 UTC in reply to "Cool"
miscz Member since:
2005-07-17

Yeah! I hate those hackers compromising my Ubuntu box all the time.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Cool
by netpython on Thu 19th Apr 2007 19:18 UTC in reply to "RE: Cool"
netpython Member since:
2005-07-06

Hmm never have any trouble with that.More iritating are those dependancy errors and unnecesary update latency.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Cool
by FooBarWidget on Fri 20th Apr 2007 15:41 UTC in reply to "RE: Cool"
FooBarWidget Member since:
2005-11-11

It's still better to have some extra, transparent, non-obtrusive defense mechanisms just in case something goes wrong. It's not a silver bullet but it helps in case someone manages to compromise your box. I still don't understand why you people all resist SELinux/ExecShield/etc so much.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Cool
by MightyPenguin on Fri 20th Apr 2007 20:26 UTC in reply to "RE: Cool"
MightyPenguin Member since:
2005-11-18

I've had at least one Linux machine that had a backdoor on it. Still don't know how it got there, but it probably was my downloading non-distro packages from everywhere.

In college some *cough* people I know pranked the webmaster by renaming bash "li0n" and running it on the college's webserver. *They* then told him about it and let him hyperventilate for 10mins ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Cool
by Eugenia on Thu 19th Apr 2007 18:43 UTC in reply to "Cool"
Eugenia Member since:
2005-06-28

Yes, it has SELinux, and all packages (including the "universe" ones) are supported and potentially fixed when you make a bug report.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Cool
by Xaero_Vincent on Thu 19th Apr 2007 20:04 UTC in reply to "RE: Cool"
Xaero_Vincent Member since:
2006-08-18

Great. That would mean they are compiled with SELinux libs.

Is there any easy tools for configuring policy settings and help troubleshooting problems due to strict policies?

Now Ubuntu and it's packages just needs all the other security features I've mentioned now and in the past.

Show these to your devs:

http://www.awe.com/mark/blog/200701041544.html
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Security/Features

I'll be waiting for 7.10.

Cheers

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Cool
by Lunitik on Fri 20th Apr 2007 09:00 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Cool"
Lunitik Member since:
2005-08-07

SELinux support is compiled in, however is not used.

No default policies, nothing... just support for...

Edited 2007-04-20 09:02

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Cool
by Lunitik on Fri 20th Apr 2007 09:04 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Cool"
Lunitik Member since:
2005-08-07

Fedora is really the test ground for such technology, Ubuntu really offers very little security. I believe this is your point however, and you were simply being sarcastic.

Most Fedora users still believe that the fix for SELinux or speed issues is to turn off SELinux though.

Also, Ubuntu includes many drivers for web cams and other hardware that desktop users want, so it really is probably a better option for them.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Cool
by MightyPenguin on Fri 20th Apr 2007 20:31 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Cool"
MightyPenguin Member since:
2005-11-18

The only real issue I can remember with SELINUX on Fedora 6 was reiser, which wouldn't even let you log on until you set SELINUX to unenforcing.

Other than that I can't remember any problems. PID randomization is kind of a pain though when a wine app crashes and you want to "kill" everything.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Cool
by pandronic on Fri 20th Apr 2007 11:06 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Cool"
pandronic Member since:
2006-05-18

I'm shaking with fear that someone might hack my Ubuntu Box ... NOT ... maybe if I lived in Paranoia Land.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Cool
by Lunitik on Fri 20th Apr 2007 08:59 UTC in reply to "RE: Cool"
Lunitik Member since:
2005-08-07

Umm, the whole point of Universe is that they are NOT supported...

Only main and restricted are supported.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Cool
by archiesteel on Thu 19th Apr 2007 18:44 UTC in reply to "Cool"
archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

Here's a HowTo for setting up SELinux on Ubuntu:

http://www.cse.psu.edu/~lstclair/Howtos/selinux_on_ubuntu.html

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Cool
by da_Chicken on Thu 19th Apr 2007 19:16 UTC in reply to "RE: Cool"
da_Chicken Member since:
2006-01-01

Here's a HowTo for setting up SELinux on Ubuntu:

http://www.cse.psu.edu/~lstclair/Howtos/selinux_on_ubuntu.html


Hmm... That HowTo starts by boasting that Ubuntu is "much more cutting-edge than Debian" but Ubuntu's SELinux packages seem to be just imitations of Debian's SELinux packages. See this blog note for more info:
http://blog.drinsama.de/erich/en/linux/selinux/2007040302-ubuntu-ge...

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Cool
by archiesteel on Thu 19th Apr 2007 19:23 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Cool"
archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

Good to know, thanks for the link...I personally don't see the need to run SELinux (yet), but the link you gave does raise a few good points.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Cool
by Lunitik on Fri 20th Apr 2007 09:06 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Cool"
Lunitik Member since:
2005-08-07

Ubuntu is mostly just Debian Sid frozen about 2 months prior to release.

Only X, Gnome and Linux itself (and currently KDE) are more up to date.

The stuff that actually brings attention to the project...

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Cool
by FooBarWidget on Fri 20th Apr 2007 15:42 UTC in reply to "RE: Cool"
FooBarWidget Member since:
2005-11-11

That should work out of the box. A guide *shouldn't* be necessary.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Cool
by SlackerJack on Thu 19th Apr 2007 18:54 UTC in reply to "Cool"
SlackerJack Member since:
2005-11-12

I 've submitted a bug report about this only yesterday about poor default security.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/107616

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Cool
by fsckit on Thu 19th Apr 2007 19:45 UTC in reply to "RE: Cool"
fsckit Member since:
2006-09-24

Not to be a jerk, but that isn't a bug report. It's a misplaced rant.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Cool
by SlackerJack on Thu 19th Apr 2007 21:39 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Cool"
SlackerJack Member since:
2005-11-12

How else are you supposed to say it?, I was told to post it as a bug report.

Nice to see that Ubuntu takes security seriously, NOT. If they cannot even do something as simple as that then there in trouble. Remember XP when it came out, it was not much better, atleast XP SP2 has this by default now after the moaning about how poor XP security was.

Do Ubuntu users take security seriously are they mostly Windows users now that are used to crappy security by default!

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Cool
by fsckit on Thu 19th Apr 2007 21:57 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Cool"
fsckit Member since:
2006-09-24

1. I'm not a Ubuntu user so don;t go making sweeping generalizations.

2. Turning off ping response has little to do with security. It's mostly nonsense with a bit of security by obscurity mixed in.

3. You seriously added "lack of firestarter" as a bug. Not having a graphical front end for a firewall that is unnecessary in the default install (nothing is listening to begin with) is not a bug.

Reply Score: 5

RE[5]: Cool
by SlackerJack on Thu 19th Apr 2007 22:06 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Cool"
SlackerJack Member since:
2005-11-12

Thats not a answer now is it, so Fedora and SUSE are paranoid with their default security settings?

Lets just take SELinux out of the kernel because most distros dont take it seriously. Does anyone really care until they get more market share when it comes to security?

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Cool
by Xaero_Vincent on Thu 19th Apr 2007 22:46 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Cool"
Xaero_Vincent Member since:
2006-08-18

Ubuntu of all distros should be the most concerned with security. It has the most marketshare of all distros and the most likely candidate for pre-install on Dell systems. Michael Dell uses Ubuntu himself!

If Dell's desktop Linux offerings have any success at all, marketshare will rise and so will the threat of malicious software.

We all know how Linux users like to bash Windows for lackluster security but hear this: even Vista has more security features than Ubuntu and all other unhardened distros. It has UAC (MAC), ASR, NX, restricted kernel memory access, IE 7 PM, so on.

Windows having a better security infrustructure than 80-90% of all Linux distros is an embrassement all in itself.

Reply Score: 4

RE[7]: Cool
by SlackerJack on Fri 20th Apr 2007 00:03 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Cool"
SlackerJack Member since:
2005-11-12

ok, so why did you get modded up for agreeing with me?, my whole point revolves around Ubuntu having poor default security. If ubuntu users refuse to have simple ICMP filtering on then they really just dont give a crap.

Go for it Ubuntu users, see if you pass simple security tests. https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Cool
by fsckit on Fri 20th Apr 2007 04:38 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Cool"
fsckit Member since:
2006-09-24

Fedora and SUSE are desinging their systems as they see fit. I don't have an issue with that. Tell ya what. OpenBSD doesn't filter ICMP in the default install and doesn't turn on their firewall either. Would you like to go tell them they don't know shit about security?

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: Cool
by Kokopelli on Thu 19th Apr 2007 22:50 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Cool"
Kokopelli Member since:
2005-07-06

What ports are open on a default Ubuntu desktop? What services are running that are available on anything other than localhost. Honestly I do not know the answer. I have multiple Ubuntu installs but they are hardly stock. On most of my non server boxes the only two things listening on * are ssh (added after the fact) and bootpc. (x)inetd in not installed by default either.

Further... Firestarter? I understand the need to be newbie friendly but Firestarter is not something I want installed period, much less as part of default. Firestarter can not gracefully handle even moderately complex firewall scenarios. Prompt them on post install or something but please not default, Network Manager is bad enough. I use Shorewall but I would not recommend that as a default either for the opposite reasons.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Cool
by SEJeff on Fri 20th Apr 2007 03:40 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Cool"
SEJeff Member since:
2005-11-05

Firestarter certainly can handle complex firewall rules. They don't expose them through the gui for a reason though.

Try this:
cd /etc/firestarter

:)

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Cool
by draethus on Fri 20th Apr 2007 05:55 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Cool"
draethus Member since:
2006-08-02

What ports are open on a default Ubuntu desktop?

Not enough.

On Feisty AFAIK the only open port should be Avahi's mDNS transponder.

But many useful ports are closed: cups doesn't listen for printers on the LAN, for example.

Security isn't worth it when you lose functionality.

Reply Score: 4

RE[6]: Cool
by kaiwai on Fri 20th Apr 2007 07:23 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Cool"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Security isn't worth it when you lose functionality.


Security isn't worth it when the distribution fails to include an easy to use front end to the firewall. It should be just a matter of when you enable 'share printer' over the network using CUPS, a dialogue box should ask whether your would like your firewall policies adjusted so that others can access the said resource.

The problem what I see, and I see it in many operating systems that claim to be 'Windows replacement' is the lack of concern over the small things; the fobbing off of responsibility for bugs. Take one of the bug reports, "I pushed it up stream" - clue to that individual, why didn't you fix it yourself? if you don't fix a bug that will affect YOUR users, then you shouldn't bundle it with it in the first place!

Its almost a damn certainty I'll be marked down for *daring* to say anything remotely against Linux or Ubuntu.

Reply Score: 5

RE[7]: Cool
by chris_dk on Fri 20th Apr 2007 10:20 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Cool"
chris_dk Member since:
2005-07-12

I agree about the firewall thing. It is very irresponsible to ship such a popular product without any decent security.

Regarding pushing bugs upstream: that is a very difficult issue. If Ubuntu had to fix all upstream's bugs, they would never finish.

Windows may be crap but they have a lot of functionality that "Windows replacements" should try and imitate.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Cool
by segedunum on Fri 20th Apr 2007 10:56 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Cool"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

Security isn't worth it when the distribution fails to include an easy to use front end to the firewall. It should be just a matter of when you enable 'share printer' over the network using CUPS, a dialogue box should ask whether your would like your firewall policies adjusted...

Very, very, true, especially when any Linux system has top-notch firewalling capabilities built-in and all the underlying infrastructure required. It's not the only example though, especially when people talk in the realms of a 'Windows replacement'.

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: Cool
by Kokopelli on Fri 20th Apr 2007 11:42 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Cool"
Kokopelli Member since:
2005-07-06

Its almost a damn certainty I'll be marked down for *daring* to say anything remotely against Linux or Ubuntu.


I wish everyone would just stop with that line. OSNews comments (since NotParkers departure) rarely get modded down significantly for any reason unless they are outright flame bait. This is just pandering to the crowd in the hopes of getting modded up. This is not /. or digg, drop the "now watch me get modded down" spiel please and focus on what you are trying to say.


As to the part of your comment that has value... I agree with your assessment, though I see nothing that does this acceptably right now, again I dislike firestarter. As far as "pushing upstream" perhaps it was because the maintainer upstream has the expertise in that particular problem? This is not always the case and there are things that should be handled at the Ubuntu level. However many "bugs" are a matter of opinion, or are not bugs so
if you don't fix a bug that will affect YOUR users, then you shouldn't bundle it with it in the first place!
is a somewhat bold statement. And a release will not wait for everything to be done, the goal is to make it incrementally better.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Cool
by kaiwai on Fri 20th Apr 2007 03:17 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Cool"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

And you're assuming with that by the tone of of your post that suddenly the little elves over in Ubuntu land are going to rush around franticly to meet your demands? Mate, get a clue.

So you want SELinux, then use Fedora; enjoy the fact that the policies are so broken that one can't properly synchronise a MTP device via the USB port because some idiot stuffed up the permissions, have the NVIDIA and ATI drivers cock up because of incompatibility.

I'd sooner Ubuntu wait and merge SELinux once all the various parts are actually compatible with it, rather than ramming it into the distro and saying, 'tough luck' to all those end users who suffer because of that decision.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Cool
by Luminair on Thu 19th Apr 2007 19:54 UTC in reply to "RE: Cool"
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

I appreciate your paranoia because security is always a good thing.

But further security improvements are not super high on the priority list because Ubuntu is very secure already.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Cool
by Xaero_Vincent on Thu 19th Apr 2007 20:10 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Cool"
Xaero_Vincent Member since:
2006-08-18

---
I appreciate your paranoia because security is always a good thing.

But further security improvements are not super high on the priority list because Ubuntu is very secure already.
---

Absolutely. It's only when Linux gains marketshare and more hackers start attacking weak spots will Ubuntu and most other non-hardened distros fall apart.

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: Cool
by Luminair on Thu 19th Apr 2007 21:29 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Cool"
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

Exactly. "Linux gains marketshare and more hackers start attacking weak spots" isn't going to happen tomorrow, and it probably won't even happen this year or the next. That is why extra security is on the 7.04 priority list behind, say, importing Windows settings.

You have to pick your battles carefully if you want to build a successful product. Ubuntu has been very good at that, as you can see from the number of people using it.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Cool
by pcdoctor on Fri 20th Apr 2007 14:29 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Cool"
pcdoctor Member since:
2007-03-05

Exactly. "Linux gains marketshare and more hackers start attacking weak spots"

not gonna happen anytime soon, is it.
Apple/MAC will sooner rule the world first, and THAT ain't gonna happen anytime soon, coz Steve Jobs isn't going to release any version of his software that I can simply install and run on my PeeCee, like how I can stick in Ubu's live CD and install from that.

Oh sure I can get a virtual machine go-between thingy but that's just not the same.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Cool
by Murrell on Thu 19th Apr 2007 19:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Cool"
Murrell Member since:
2006-01-04

How on earth does responding to pings constitute a security problem?

It is however, a royal PITA for those of us who need to see if a machine is running if it doesn't respond to pings!

So to reply to your comment on the bug page;

OK, but can't you atleast have a iptables update with ICMP filtering enabled?

No.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Cool
by billnvd on Thu 19th Apr 2007 23:32 UTC in reply to "RE: Cool"
billnvd Member since:
2006-02-04

Steve Gibsonism.

The whole stealth issue is over hyped nonsense.

Stop reading at GRC, the guy is a nut!

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Cool
by Soulbender on Fri 20th Apr 2007 12:44 UTC in reply to "RE: Cool"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Allrighty.
First, blocking ICMP is the single most retarded thing you could possibly do. Anyone who says it's good for security has, to be quite frank, not a single goddamn clue about security or networking whatsoever. It increases your security exactly by 0.
Secondly, blocking ICMP breaks a lot of things, among those PMTUD (Path MTU discovery) wich leads to a lot of really funny problems (example: browsing works, downloads doesn't) that are hard to diagnose.
Now, of course not all ICMP messages are useful (and some should be ignore by workstations) but if your OS has a stack that is so weak that it can't handle a protocol that is essential for successful networking maybe you should just give up designing OS's.
It's not 1995 anymore, only totally clueless people advocate ICMP carpet blocking.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Cool
by r3m0t on Fri 20th Apr 2007 16:08 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Cool"
r3m0t Member since:
2005-07-25

"only totally clueless people advocate ICMP carpet blocking"

And Norton Firewall/Norton Internet Security.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Cool
by pcdoctor on Fri 20th Apr 2007 16:22 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Cool"
pcdoctor Member since:
2007-03-05

"only totally clueless people advocate ICMP carpet blocking
- and Norton Firewall/Norton Internet Security."


You forgot McAfee.
See? -now you've gone and hurt their feelings!

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Cool
by Soulbender on Mon 23rd Apr 2007 03:12 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Cool"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"And Norton Firewall/Norton Internet Security."

That's what I said.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Cool
by happycamper on Fri 20th Apr 2007 17:23 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Cool"
happycamper Member since:
2006-01-01

/* blocking ICMP breaks a lot of things, among those PMTUD (Path MTU discovery)*/


not if type 3 code 4 packets are allowed.


/*Now, of course not all ICMP messages are useful*/

I agree, i think echo packets should be blocked.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Cool
by roastpork on Thu 19th Apr 2007 20:39 UTC in reply to "Cool"
roastpork Member since:
2006-07-17

Is there an equivalent to the Fedora Security page (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Security/Features) on ubuntu.com? I didn't see one off-hand. I'd sincerely like to know from a corporate security perspective.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Cool
by SEJeff on Fri 20th Apr 2007 00:41 UTC in reply to "RE: Cool"
SEJeff Member since:
2005-11-05

Debian, and hence Ubuntu are years away from Fedora on a security front. It is a sad realization that you have to accept. There are people who work at redhat fulltime on nothing but security and ways to improve it.

The closest thing Debian has is some of the SELinux guys like Russel Coker. Even still, the "democratic nature" often makes his contributions get rejected or debated meaninglessly because a package maintainer refuses to accept a small patch.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Cool
by 1c3d0g on Fri 20th Apr 2007 19:08 UTC in reply to "Cool"
1c3d0g Member since:
2005-07-06

If you need military-grade security, then I suggest you consider OpenBSD, as it's clearly the best option available today.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Cool
by netpython on Fri 20th Apr 2007 19:24 UTC in reply to "RE: Cool"
netpython Member since:
2005-07-06

If you need military-grade security, then I suggest you consider OpenBSD, as it's clearly the best option available today.

Don't forget Adamantix (trusted debian) and hardened gentoo (pax,grsecurity,propolice,etc):-)

Reply Score: 2

One of the things Ubuntu is doing right
by fretinator on Thu 19th Apr 2007 18:33 UTC
fretinator
Member since:
2005-07-06

They are hitting the balance between new features and stability. Some distros so favor stability that they quickly become stale and leave many users waiting endlessly for new features. Others live so close to the cutting edge that they break easily. A friend and I used to joke about a certain unnamed distro that they probably did a CVS checkout of gcc immediately prior to release.

I am still running Dapper Drake, which still feels quite fresh to me. Soon I will upgrade to Feisty (I suppose via Eft first), and I believe it will still be a stable distro.

Reply Score: 3

Oliver Member since:
2006-07-15

Some people call this the Windows way of doing things ...

Reply Score: 2

anduril Member since:
2005-11-11

Sticking to the stable, LTS release is a windows way of doing things? Actually, the windows way of doing things is you get whatever the OEMs sell. So, day one of a new release you have no choice. You're running the newest windows.

Linux, atleast you generally have a choice.

Btw, typing this from a Vista box

Reply Score: 2

Kudos to Ubuntu devs!
by archiesteel on Thu 19th Apr 2007 18:46 UTC
archiesteel
Member since:
2005-07-02

I've been running Feisty for about two weeks now, and despite a couple of pre-release snags it has worked wonderfully, with my Broadcom wireless card finally being supported (though it used to work well with Linuxant's driverloader).

This is a very polished distro, and I for one congratulate the Ubuntu devs and volunteers for their great work!

Reply Score: 3

upgrade
by Pratiz on Thu 19th Apr 2007 18:51 UTC
Pratiz
Member since:
2005-07-12

Is there anyway to directly update from ubuntu 6.10 to this without re-installing everything?

Reply Score: 2

RE: upgrade
by aaronb on Thu 19th Apr 2007 18:53 UTC in reply to "upgrade"
aaronb Member since:
2005-07-06

Indeed, Click on system > Administration > Update manager

Follow on screen instructions.

I have just upgraded.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: upgrade
by Pratiz on Thu 19th Apr 2007 18:58 UTC in reply to "RE: upgrade"
Pratiz Member since:
2005-07-12

Thanks,
My sound card doesn't seem to work with 6.10, so had installed Fedora also ;-). I hope this has the fixes for the sound card problems.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: upgrade
by fretinator on Thu 19th Apr 2007 19:00 UTC in reply to "RE: upgrade"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

Indeed, Click on system > Administration > Update manager Follow on screen instructions. I have just upgraded.


So should I do this twice to go from Dapper to Feisty?

Dapper->Edgy
Edgy->Feisty

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: upgrade
by aaronb on Thu 19th Apr 2007 19:04 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: upgrade"
aaronb Member since:
2005-07-06

If Dapper is 6.06 then yes.

The update manager would update to 6.10
Reboot
Run it again to go to 7.04

Edited 2007-04-19 19:11

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: upgrade
by sbergman27 on Thu 19th Apr 2007 21:35 UTC in reply to "RE: upgrade"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

"""
Indeed, Click on system > Administration > Update manager

Follow on screen instructions.
"""

... and do expect it to break your X. Ubuntu has a thing about breaking your X for you. It happened with that set of updates a while back in Dapper. And then again with the Edgy upgrade. (I believe that a popular pole on the Ubuntu forums indicated about 40% of upgrades were affected.)

I like Ubuntu and run it on my laptop and desktop both. But it seems that X is to Ubuntu as "branes" are to zombies.

Interestingly, it is also what Michael Dell runs on his laptop:

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS5149877302.html

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: upgrade
by pcdoctor on Fri 20th Apr 2007 14:36 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: upgrade"
pcdoctor Member since:
2007-03-05

I'm thinking of buying a whole new HD to install Ubu/Feisty 7.04 on, all by itself,
and leaving my current,working install of Ubu 6.10 alone,intact!

I am NOT going to try any kinda miracle upgrade!

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: upgrade
by sbergman27 on Fri 20th Apr 2007 19:19 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: upgrade"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

I believe that in that case it asks you during the install if you want it to break X in your other partition. Say "no" and you should be OK.

I'm only joking, of course.

But it wouldn't really *surprise* me if it went and wrote a few random bytes to the xorg.conf on your old partition.

Like I say, if "Fedora Eats Your Brane", "Ubuntu Eats Your X!" ;-)

People like to make fun of Ubuntu users, but I'll bet we know more about the ins and outs of xorg.conf than any other community simply out of sheer necessity.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: upgrade
by Kokopelli on Fri 20th Apr 2007 19:45 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: upgrade"
Kokopelli Member since:
2005-07-06

People like to make fun of Ubuntu users, but I'll bet we know more about the ins and outs of xorg.conf than any other community simply out of sheer necessity.


Bah, Ubuntu users are spoiled. Everything I learned about X configuration I learned in Slackware. Ubuntu is a picnic comparatively. (Slack still has a special place in my heart, but I don't like spending so much time in upkeep anymore.)

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: upgrade
by pcdoctor on Sat 21st Apr 2007 20:10 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: upgrade"
pcdoctor Member since:
2007-03-05

Bah, Ubuntu users are spoiled. Ubuntu is a picnic comparatively."

Yes!! that's the whole idea! - to make it Windoze-Easy
so vast BILLIONS (finally!) get attracted to at least one flavour of Linux they can stand for longer than a week!
Look at me, dabbling with Linux for six long years, wanting to get in and stick it,
and only now(Ubuntu) am I here to stay!

Took me SIX Years...no...it took Linux six years to get me here..
to be ready for me, yer average komputer klutz!

Hope you're ready for the big flood in Linux' direction,
when the dam really bursts in favour of Linux popularity,
and it'll be us spoilt kid Ubuntu picnickers that'll have done it!

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: upgrade
by Kokopelli on Sat 21st Apr 2007 20:25 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: upgrade"
Kokopelli Member since:
2005-07-06

Hope you're ready for the big flood in Linux' direction, when the dam really bursts in favour of Linux popularity, and it'll be us spoilt kid Ubuntu picnickers that'll have done it!


And the influx of users are welcome, one and all. A user, spoiled or not, is another potential contributor to the community. Whether it be through patches, ideas, tutorials, bug reports, or even just a voice in the crowd. The best way to strengthen the community, and by association the platform, is to embrace those willing to try.

Cheers.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: upgrade
by apoclypse on Fri 20th Apr 2007 20:55 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: upgrade"
apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

You're damn right about that. I've never had to edit xorg as much I have in Ubuntu. Not that I'm complaining or anything.

Reply Score: 1

I'd love to see
by vondur on Thu 19th Apr 2007 18:55 UTC
vondur
Member since:
2005-07-07

A graphical X config tool that comes with Ubuntu by default. Ubuntu sometimes messes up on the auto X-config area pretty badly.

Reply Score: 5

RE: I'd love to see
by Temcat on Thu 19th Apr 2007 20:12 UTC in reply to "I'd love to see"
Temcat Member since:
2005-10-18

AFAIK it won't be needed starting from X.org V.7.3.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: I'd love to see
by Xaero_Vincent on Thu 19th Apr 2007 20:19 UTC in reply to "RE: I'd love to see"
Xaero_Vincent Member since:
2006-08-18

I bet Xorg.conf will still be needed for proprietary drivers.

My guess is you might not need Xorg.conf if using FOSS drivers and basic settings supported by Xorg out-of-the box.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: I'd love to see
by sb56637 on Fri 20th Apr 2007 04:43 UTC in reply to "RE: I'd love to see"
sb56637 Member since:
2006-05-11

>>AFAIK it won't be needed starting from X.org V.7.3.

I've heard that in several places. How can that be though? Are they just assuming its going to have perfect autodetection? Or will X.org ship a GUI? Or what?

I don't know if this is correct, I read you can run
sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg --frontend=gnome
(according to http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=410190)

Reply Score: 1

RE: I'd love to see
by Johann Chua on Fri 20th Apr 2007 05:22 UTC in reply to "I'd love to see"
Johann Chua Member since:
2005-07-22

If X isn't configured properly, how would a GUI config tool work?

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: I'd love to see
by senornoodle on Fri 20th Apr 2007 12:36 UTC in reply to "RE: I'd love to see"
senornoodle Member since:
2005-07-12

VESA driver at 640x480, 60Hz, 16-bit colour? Or is there another kind of X error capable of making it unusable that doesn't involve drivers/resolutions?

Reply Score: 1

RE: I'd love to see
by haugland on Sat 21st Apr 2007 01:55 UTC in reply to "I'd love to see"
haugland Member since:
2005-07-07

Yes, and it should be coupled with bullet-proof-x https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/bullet-proof-x. Unfortunately, the spec is still in the drafting stage.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Some torrents here:
by DougInKY on Thu 19th Apr 2007 20:05 UTC in reply to "Some torrents here:"
DougInKY Member since:
2006-08-02

Thank you for the Torrents. I have been trying for several hours to get onto the Ubuntu site to get a Torrent but the servers are so overloaded that they just aren't responding. Have my Torrent download going right now thanks to you.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Some torrents here:
by Priest on Thu 19th Apr 2007 21:01 UTC in reply to "Some torrents here:"
Priest Member since:
2006-05-12

Wow, even the .torrent is getting crushed.

That is actually kind of impressive.

Reply Score: 2

Too bad I'm working tonight....
by werfu on Thu 19th Apr 2007 19:02 UTC
werfu
Member since:
2005-09-15

else than I would try a clean install. I'll maybe convert my lappy during the week-end. Congradulation to all developpers!

Reply Score: 1

RE: PowerPC and PS3
by spikeb on Fri 20th Apr 2007 11:26 UTC in reply to "PowerPC and PS3"
spikeb Member since:
2006-01-18

anyone tried the ppc port yet? how is it?

Reply Score: 1

RE
by Kroc on Thu 19th Apr 2007 19:13 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

Every year I download a new Ubunutu release to try it out and see how it's progressing. The new 7.04 release looks very polished and I look forward to trying it out. Switching to Linux has never appealed to me, it's hard to compete with what OS X offers, but if Apple should ever turn sour, Ubunut would be the first place I would go. For me, it's finding the right applications. Is there any text editor on Linux comparable with the mighty TextMate? (it's my most important app)

Reply Score: 2

RE
by archiesteel on Thu 19th Apr 2007 19:24 UTC in reply to "RE"
archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

Is there any text editor on Linux comparable with the mighty TextMate? (it's my most important app)


Have you tride Kate? It's quite impressive as far as features go...

Reply Score: 5

RE
by raver31 on Thu 19th Apr 2007 21:15 UTC in reply to "RE"
raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

Kate ? Nah, thats just bloat......

try Joe.

Well impressive

Reply Score: 3

RE
by RandomGuy on Thu 19th Apr 2007 22:59 UTC in reply to "RE"
RandomGuy Member since:
2006-07-30

How the f* is Kate bloated?
It doesn't even have a word count feature - which is not all that bad btw. because you can use "wc filename" on the integrated commandline.
I've always considered Kate to be one of the best things since sliced bread and Amarok.

Hell, it's like using a racing car to drive to the next supermarket and then complaining about it being over engineered.

Bloat this, bloat that, I f'ing hate this word!
Ok, I'm done ranting, feeling _much_ better now ;)

Reply Score: 5

RE
by raver31 on Fri 20th Apr 2007 11:08 UTC in reply to "RE"
raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

It is called "sarcasm", you missed it.

Anyway, compared with Joe, almost all text editors are bloated, in the case of Kate, it will not work without KDE-libs.

Reply Score: 2

RE
by theine on Fri 20th Apr 2007 01:33 UTC in reply to "RE"
theine Member since:
2005-09-29

vim is fantastic and I heard emacs is pretty good as well

Reply Score: 1

RE
by Kroc on Fri 20th Apr 2007 10:59 UTC in reply to "RE"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Both vim and emacs are available (built in) on OS X, and I'm certainly not interested in them as it is. If I wanted to code in a terminal window, I'd use my Commodore 64.

Reply Score: 3

RE
by theine on Fri 20th Apr 2007 15:28 UTC in reply to "RE"
theine Member since:
2005-09-29

If I wanted to code in a terminal window, I'd use my Commodore 64.

What's wrong with coding in a terminal?

Reply Score: 1

RE
by Kroc on Fri 20th Apr 2007 20:59 UTC in reply to "RE"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Now vim/emacs may have some of these features already, but these are the ones I enjoy in a GUI

* tabbed interface for multiple documents
* directory browser with grouping and regexp filtering
* right click
* html preview, live edit, lookup documentation for keywords, script scoping
* SVN integration
* integrated with cocoa, providing dictionary lookup and spelling anywhere
* and much more.

Editing in a terminal is fine for those who have learnt how to do that, but starting out new on the Mac platform, TextMate is a much more practical thing to start with.

Reply Score: 2

RE
by DrCurl on Fri 20th Apr 2007 12:32 UTC in reply to "RE"
DrCurl Member since:
2006-01-17

You can try Scribes (http://scribes.sourceforge.net/)

It does snippets like textmate, has word completion, stays out of the way, has a very clean interface.

Reply Score: 1

TextMate
by alexandru_lz on Thu 19th Apr 2007 19:17 UTC
alexandru_lz
Member since:
2007-02-11

As far as I'm concerned, that emacs but you may find that a bit annoying. vim has a nice GUI (probably more usable than that provided by emacs) and it's also scriptable. And there's also Tea, but I can't say too much about this one. I'm a bit one-sided, really, I've used emacs for so long that nothing else really appeals to me.

Reply Score: 1

RE: TextMate
by kragil on Thu 19th Apr 2007 19:24 UTC in reply to "TextMate"
kragil Member since:
2006-01-04

Hmm, Scribes has similar ideas. But it is too early to tell whether it will be the Textmate for Linux. It is developing quickly tho.

http://scribes.sourceforge.net/

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: TextMate
by archiesteel on Thu 19th Apr 2007 19:31 UTC in reply to "RE: TextMate"
archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

Okay, I have to admit that Scribes looks *very* nice. The Flash demo is quite impressive.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: TextMate
by Samhain on Thu 19th Apr 2007 21:35 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: TextMate"
Samhain Member since:
2005-07-06

Personally, I started the Flash demo and when it just started to repeat exactly what had been said on the webpage but slower and in a fashion resembling a powerpoint presentation I just said screw this and closed it.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: TextMate
by fsckit on Thu 19th Apr 2007 21:53 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: TextMate"
fsckit Member since:
2006-09-24

Well you shoulda stuck with it. I personally detest anything graphical, especially when speaking of text editors, but I was damn impressed.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: TextMate
by sbergman27 on Thu 19th Apr 2007 22:35 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: TextMate"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

I've noticed that where Textmate *really* excels is in the creation of all those screencasts that the various web framework proprietors are so hot on these days. All of the web framework screencasts use TextMate. I honestly don't think I've seen one that didn't.

TextMate allows you to program much of the demo into little macros that you can expand on cue, dazzling the viewer, and ensuring that he can't actually keep up, let alone analyze critically, just what you are actually doing.

And with proper planning and the proper choice of target application (Wikis are good) you can take the most immature and incapable web framework (like TurboGears 0.8) and make it look like a panacea to solve all web programming ills.

TextMate may be good for programmers. But it is a showman's dream.

Edited 2007-04-19 22:39

Reply Score: 2

Feisty is a great release but..
by siimo on Thu 19th Apr 2007 19:36 UTC
siimo
Member since:
2006-06-22

Gutsy Gibbon here we come!

;-)

Reply Score: 5

Darkelve Member since:
2006-02-06

Don't want to imagine what the codename'll be when they get to the letter H :p

Seriously though, congratulations for this release from an openSUSE 10.2 user. I hope people using Feisty will be happy with it ;)

Reply Score: 5

archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

My guess is that they'll skip "H" altogether, since there already was a "Hoary Hedgehog" release a few years ago, and go straight to "I". My personal suggestion: "intrepid imp". Yeah, I know an imp is not a real animal, and I don't care. :-)

Reply Score: 3

Gunderwo Member since:
2006-01-03

Horny Hare

Reply Score: 2

siimo Member since:
2006-06-22

I like Hungry Hippo better. Hungry to be the best OS that he can be!

Edited 2007-04-19 20:40

Reply Score: 1

archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

There might be IP issues with that name...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungry_Hungry_Hippos

Reply Score: 2

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Hungry Hippo makes the best hamburgers in Manila. Well, maybe not best but damn tasty anyway.

Reply Score: 3

fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

Don't want to imagine what the codename'll be when they get to the letter H :p Seriously though, congratulations for this release from an openSUSE 10.2 user. I hope people using Feisty will be happy with it ;)


My votes -

H: Helpful Hyena
I: Irky Iguana

Reply Score: 2

pcdoctor Member since:
2007-03-05

Gutsy Gibbon. What a 'beautiful' name!
the Ubuntu team should really try to get away from these idiotic alphabetical 'names' of theirs.
It does nothing for the project. Just stick with numbers like the rest of the world does, okay?
Like the guy said, I can hardly wait to see what H will bring us...Harry Hardon?

Reply Score: 0

apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

The whole uproar is about the name is kind of silly. Apple has been doing this for quite some time for their dev releases and no one seems to complain about it. Just because Ubuntu decided to go with decidedly more silly nomenclature all of a sudden its the stupidest thing in the world. The names are development release names not the final release names, just like 'Tiger' and 'Leopard' are the dev names for 10.whatever. Its just a name, its catchy andit helps create a buzz for each release. I'd wager and say that its one of the reasons that Ubuntu has so much mindshare, the easy to remember names.

Reply Score: 1

bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

Or to say it another way, how many of us like Ubuntu because of the admittedly silly names?

--bornagainpenguin

Reply Score: 2

blitze Member since:
2006-09-15

Me, me, me.

As for the gits comparing Ubuntu to Microsoft - GET A LIFE.

Canonical and Ubuntu have nothing in common with Microsoft in code or business practices.

Wankers.

Reply Score: 1

Ubuntu Server in General
by jackson on Thu 19th Apr 2007 19:50 UTC
jackson
Member since:
2005-06-29

I know this is not exactly Feisty-related, but I hope you'll forgive me. :-)

I have used Debian on the server for a long time, but I am considering trying Ubuntu 6.06 LTS. Five years of long term support seems really nice. What I'd like to know is how Ubuntu stacks up on the server as compared to Debian. Any comparisons out there? Any former Debian server users who switched to Ubuntu server care to tell their experiences?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Ubuntu Server in General
by Murrell on Thu 19th Apr 2007 20:00 UTC in reply to "Ubuntu Server in General"
Murrell Member since:
2006-01-04

If you need anything that's new *coughPHP5cough* then Ubuntu is generally better.

I would say that the quality is slightly better on Debian, and it doesn't seem to require quite so many upgrades as Ubuntu.

With both Debian and Ubuntu LTS, I've ended up backporting packages. The difference is that I have to backport more packages for Debian due to it's insanely long release cycles.

Given that I suspect that Ubuntu Edgy/Fiesty packages get more testing than Debian unstable packages, I'm happier about backporting those.

I really wish someone would release new kernel packages for LTS though.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Ubuntu Server in General
by da_Chicken on Thu 19th Apr 2007 20:34 UTC in reply to "RE: Ubuntu Server in General"
da_Chicken Member since:
2006-01-01

If you need anything that's new *coughPHP5cough* then Ubuntu is generally better.

Nasty cough you have there. Debian Etch has PHP5, no problem.
http://packages.debian.org/stable/web/php5

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Ubuntu Server in General
by porcel on Thu 19th Apr 2007 22:59 UTC in reply to "Ubuntu Server in General"
porcel Member since:
2006-01-28

I have one customer running Ubuntu LTS precisely for the reason that you mention: five years of support sounded really nice.

However, the stability of my debian servers has not been matched by Ubuntu. While it's not bad, I have had kernel lockups with the plugging and unplugging of external usb hard drives. This had never happened to me on any other distribution.

I have also had zero problems upgrading live servers from Debian Sarge to Etch, which I consider quite a feat.

On the server, I would stick to the latest Debian unless you have very solid reasons for going the Ubuntu route. Obviously, this is just my experience, but I do maintain a very large number of servers.

Reply Score: 3

Running it...
by Temcat on Thu 19th Apr 2007 20:07 UTC
Temcat
Member since:
2005-10-18

...since the middle of the development cycle. An overall nice release - the review covers all the good things about 7.04 well. However, problems do exist, too:

* Totem cannot play mp3 files properly:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/93623

The importance of this confirmed Ubuntu bug is set to "Low", but at the same time Totem-gstreamer is chosen as the default multimedia player. And it still doesn't play DVD properly! I just don't get it...

* Desktop effects cause troubles on my onboard Intel video card (i915).

* Sound Juicer hangs on editing profiles.

There may be other problems, those are the ones that affect me personally.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Running it...
by archiesteel on Thu 19th Apr 2007 20:27 UTC in reply to "Running it..."
archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

The Totem bug has been moved upstream, i.e. it seems to be a Gnome bug.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Running it...
by Temcat on Thu 19th Apr 2007 20:46 UTC in reply to "RE: Running it..."
Temcat Member since:
2005-10-18

Yeah, it was pushed upstream, but then somebody explicitly set the status in Gnome Bugzilla from Unknown to Unconfirmed. I guess this means that they cannot replicate it upstream, and the bug is Ubuntu-specific.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Running it...
by archiesteel on Thu 19th Apr 2007 20:57 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Running it..."
archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

Maybe...though I believe unconfirmed simply means that no one has tried to replicate it yet. I could be wrong, though.

Fortunately it only affects Totem. Still, this being the default player, that's not a nice bug. Of course, Kubuntu users (like me) are not affected.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Running it...
by apoclypse on Thu 19th Apr 2007 23:29 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Running it..."
apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

It might be unconfirmed because it doesn't affect everyone. I'm able to listen to MP3's with no issues using totem. Do you have all the proper packages installed? It can be an issue with the package installer not installing the correct dependencies. I'm old school so I installed all the packages the old way using synaptic and apt-get

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Running it...
by Temcat on Fri 20th Apr 2007 00:03 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Running it..."
Temcat Member since:
2005-10-18

Yep, I have all codecs installed. The most interesting part is that Rhythmbox, Exaille et al play the files OK. They all have gstreamer as a backend, therefore I conclude that this is a bug in Totem.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Running it...
by archiesteel on Fri 20th Apr 2007 02:35 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Running it..."
archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

Was it a clean install? Perhaps you have some old config files lying around your /home...

Reply Score: 2

RE: Running it...
by kaiwai on Fri 20th Apr 2007 03:08 UTC in reply to "Running it..."
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Sound Juicer doesn't hang; I know what you mean, it doesn't hang, the problem is that the 'editing' part comes to the front whilst the programme itself still has the focus on the list of CODECS but has been put to the back. The best way around this is by bringing that list of settings to the front, click on close, and then you'll find that the editing part will work.

I have a feeling it is probably a bug between Sound Juicer and GTK.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Running it...
by pcdoctor on Fri 20th Apr 2007 14:23 UTC in reply to "Running it..."
pcdoctor Member since:
2007-03-05

Totem sucks. it's a problem.
- get VLC and Be Happy.

Reply Score: 1

Er ...
by moleskine on Thu 19th Apr 2007 20:07 UTC
moleskine
Member since:
2005-11-05

What comparisons do folks have in mind when they call Feisty "a great release" or, er, even "a great release but"?

Reply Score: 4

great!
by SK8T on Thu 19th Apr 2007 20:56 UTC
SK8T
Member since:
2006-06-01

It's a really great release!

I worked on this release, too. I was in the Artwork-Team, and I helped with the translation into german. I also reported a dozend of bugs.

You can get the ShipIt CD's for free again.

And I think, this is far the best ubuntu release ever.

Very good work, congrats!!!

Reply Score: 3

uh
by deanlinkous on Thu 19th Apr 2007 21:41 UTC
deanlinkous
Member since:
2006-06-19

anyone notice that for every five ubuntu related articles that are submitted - five get published yet for every five Debian articles that get submitted only two get published.....

Reply Score: 0

Ubuntu and Kubuntu
by Luminair on Thu 19th Apr 2007 22:29 UTC
Luminair
Member since:
2007-03-30

I tried both Ubuntu and Kubuntu 7.04 in a virtual machine, and the most notable thing for me is that they both have redeeming features that the other does not necessarily have.

For example, the first thing I noticed is that Kubuntu has a clipboard manager running at startup (good), but it insists on forcing K-apps onto you, such as Konqueror over Firefox (bad).

Reply Score: 2

RE: Ubuntu and Kubuntu
by teprrr on Thu 19th Apr 2007 23:42 UTC in reply to "Ubuntu and Kubuntu"
teprrr Member since:
2005-07-06

For example, the first thing I noticed is that Kubuntu has a clipboard manager running at startup (good), but it insists on forcing K-apps onto you, such as Konqueror over Firefox (bad).

Umh, and how is bad when it defaults to K-apps? K-apps are generally more integrated to the K Desktop Environment than other applications are which makes the desktop stay consistent.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Ubuntu and Kubuntu
by apoclypse on Thu 19th Apr 2007 23:43 UTC in reply to "RE: Ubuntu and Kubuntu"
apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

First of all, the names. Why must the K taunt me so?

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: Ubuntu and Kubuntu
by lemur2 on Fri 20th Apr 2007 00:01 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Ubuntu and Kubuntu"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

{First of all, the names. Why must the K taunt me so?}

It is almost as bad as the "Win" prefix on every name in another OS, or the "i" prefix in yet another!

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Ubuntu and Kubuntu
by t4inted on Fri 20th Apr 2007 08:13 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Ubuntu and Kubuntu"
t4inted Member since:
2006-11-24

I agree on the "i"-prefix
But on Windows? I can't remember WinWord, nor WinExcel. Neither are there WinVisual Studio and WinInternet Explorer. And certainly not WinEditor or WinMine Sweeper.

Office is called "Microsoft Office 2003 Whatever Edition". This is perfectly normal, they just include the name of the company who developed it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Ubuntu and Kubuntu
by lemur2 on Fri 20th Apr 2007 10:05 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Ubuntu and Kubuntu"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

{But on Windows? I can't remember WinWord, nor WinExcel. Neither are there WinVisual Studio and WinInternet Explorer. And certainly not WinEditor or WinMine Sweeper. }

http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/help/93929171-8e24-1...
http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/QueryWS/GetOpenContent.aspx?assetI...

Windows Media Centre
Windows Ultimate Extras
Windows Media Player
Windows Live Messenger Download
Windows Photo Gallery
Windows DVD Maker
Windows Meeting Space

Edited 2007-04-20 10:08

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Ubuntu and Kubuntu
by t4inted on Fri 20th Apr 2007 10:09 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Ubuntu and Kubuntu"
t4inted Member since:
2006-11-24

ouch that hurts ;)

But I still think it's a difference in adding your companies name to a product to inventing stupid names just so there's a 'k' in it. Especially considering that 'k' is a rare letter in the English language.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Ubuntu and Kubuntu
by ThawkTH on Fri 20th Apr 2007 12:39 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Ubuntu and Kubuntu"
ThawkTH Member since:
2005-07-06

Actually, I can clearly remember a WinWord.exe ....was it back in my win95 days? Or maybe 3.1?

You know, for being 20 I feel pretty damn old right now...

But you are right - MS doesn't use Win in front of ALL of their software titles, but...

Media Player, Movie Maker, etc etc etc

It's all branding. Apple seems to have gotten it the most right with it's 'i' stuff, gnome is obviously moving away from having G- everything...

So who knows? Maybe KDE will come up with something new. I'm personally a fan of KDE apps with a K in the name but not in the front. amaroK for instance!

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Ubuntu and Kubuntu
by Luminair on Fri 20th Apr 2007 03:12 UTC in reply to "RE: Ubuntu and Kubuntu"
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

It's not globally bad to default to K-apps. It is bad when there are better alternatives. I think you would find that most agree that Firefox is the superior browser. That's all I mean.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Ubuntu and Kubuntu
by lemur2 on Fri 20th Apr 2007 03:17 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Ubuntu and Kubuntu"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

{It's not globally bad to default to K-apps. It is bad when there are better alternatives. I think you would find that most agree that Firefox is the superior browser. That's all I mean.}

In a KDE environment, it is certain that konqueror is installed, but firefox may or may not be.

Konqueror has most of the features of firefox (including tabs and ad blocking), it is better-integrated into the KDE desktop and is more standards-compliant than firefox, but it lacks XUL and all of the extensions that brings.

It is not at all unreasonable for a KDE install to make Konqueror the initial default browser. You can readily change it to firefox if you want to and you have firefox installed.

Edited 2007-04-20 03:18

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Ubuntu and Kubuntu
by teprrr on Fri 20th Apr 2007 11:33 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Ubuntu and Kubuntu"
teprrr Member since:
2005-07-06

It's not globally bad to default to K-apps. It is bad when there are better alternatives. I think you would find that most agree that Firefox is the superior browser. That's all I mean.

Do you have any statistics about that? URLs? You can always change the default browser to your Firefox if you want to.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Ubuntu and Kubuntu
by Luminair on Fri 20th Apr 2007 16:47 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Ubuntu and Kubuntu"
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

Most of the internet uses Firefox or IE. The 30%+ who use Firefox probably explicitly chose it, which implies they prefer it. Since Konqueror is usually included in the "Other" column that has 3% market share, it is a very safe bet that more prefer Firefox over Konqueror.

This means Firefox is at least an order of magnitude more popular than Konqueror. The greater community support and development efforts that go along with that means it is a better browser for more people. Konqueror certainly has its small niche, but I doubt the mission goal of Kubuntu is to fill a small niche.

That said, the devil's advocate says that most of those Firefox users are on Windows. He says that Konqueror could actually be as good or better than Firefox, and that switching to Linux gives people a fresh start where they could come to like a new browser. That is possible too. But I somehow think that K-apps are included en masse in KDE for more... religious reasons.

Reply Score: 1

bornagainenguin
Member since:
2005-08-07

..still not supported.

Back to XP I go. I'm getting a bit frustrated with this situation though, because there are indications this card worked fine under 2.4 and the they started to change things and try moving it along with many other PCMCIA cards into the kernel and now its just a mess... One of the people on the Ubuntu forums seems to know how to make it work, but his method seems to require a hex editor and a ethernet connection to make work, and even then once that's done it isn't fully working (no detection in the network applet or a way to select from various wifi sources.)

I guess I'll just put off my migration until I can pick up a new wifi card--whenever that ends up being.

--bornagainpenguin (frustrated especially after hearing all the good things about the improved wifi in this release)

Reply Score: 2

Kokopelli Member since:
2005-07-06

Surely dissapointing but why not just spend a couple bucks and buy one that is well supported? Ubuntu does not seem to be alone with problems with this card.

Running XP because an easily replaced, relatively inexpensive, component does not work in linux sounds to me like someone looking for an excuse not to install linux. I could understand if you said your laptop, or the built in video, but a PCMCIA wireless card that you can replace for around $50?

Edited 2007-04-19 23:20

Reply Score: 4

bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

It is for the laptop!

And while fifty dollars might seem like no big deal to you I'd personally prefer to "waste" that couple of bucks on making sure I have food and a place to live. I do most of my internet at public WiFi spots and download my entertainment while talking with friends and hanging out in forums. The last "major" purchase I made was the USB enclosure for one of my spare hard drives I had from more well-funded times. These days I'm not hurting so long as I keep careful track of my spending.

Suffering through XP (and keeping it up to date with nLite and etc) is a pain when I'd prefer to be able to complete my transition but better than having no internet.

Forgive me if my post seemed like a rant, but I've been trying to switch completely to Linux on a full time basis for nearly three or four years now. I converted all my files to open formats and let me tell you as someone who had over a gigabyte of text and HTML archives in self-extracting RAR executables that was no fun... but I did it a little bit at a time.

Just like I've been careful to check my hardware for compatibility before buying it and as a result this PCMCIA card and my Logitech wireless keyboardmouse are the only bits of hardware that remain without complete support--and the Logitech can probably be made 100% with enough time learning how to map those "special" buttons.

This is not a matter of my commitment; it's a matter of being disappointed on the release of the latest Ubuntu, that's all.

--bornagainpenguin

Reply Score: 3

Kokopelli Member since:
2005-07-06


This is not a matter of my commitment; it's a matter of being disappointed on the release of the latest Ubuntu, that's all.


Or... install another distro that the card works with?

Again this is not a complaint against Ubuntu as near as I can tell, but a common problem. I found complaints about this card on Suse FC4 and Mandriva on the first page of a google search. However use another distro if Ubuntu does not work for you.

As a final option, send me your snail mail address and I will send you a wireless card that is supported provided in return you send me your DWL-650 and an email with a screenshot of your converted laptop. (techno<remove this>jester<at>gmail.com) I would consider it a small sacrifice to convert you to linux (any flavor).

I still think it is an excuse more than a reason though. If you can not budget $50 in a year for a wireless card you have financial issues. It is a matter of deciding what is important to you. By not being able to budget $50 over an extended period I would say converting to Linux is not a priority.

EDIT:
It is for the laptop!

What I meant was the mainboard or some other component that is not easily replaced.

Edited 2007-04-19 23:50

Reply Score: 5

apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

Buy this man a Beer!

Reply Score: 2

mabhatter Member since:
2005-07-17

seriously, if you're using a PC card wireless anyway, get a compatible card and stop whining about it. It's not that hard to do an hour of legwork online to find a compatible card at a "big box" store to fix your troubles... that's why your computer let's you take the card out of the slot!! I found mine in half an hour browsing wifi sipping pop accross the street from the BigBox store and on sale too! best $50 spent in a long time.

Sorry to be mean, but whining about "linux isn't compatible" with X is getting old.. especially for add-in cards known to be serious problems that are completely outside "linux's" control. If your hardware is glued together (built into your notebook), fine, ask for help, but if you can change to a working card do it! or stop complaining!

Reply Score: 1

well
by deanlinkous on Thu 19th Apr 2007 23:13 UTC
deanlinkous
Member since:
2006-06-19

anyone notice that for every five ubuntu related articles that are submitted - five get published yet for every five Debian articles that get submitted only two get published.....

Is it just MY submissions that get sent to the trash or anyone else notice this?

Reply Score: 0

RE: well
by sbergman27 on Thu 19th Apr 2007 23:22 UTC in reply to "well"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

"""
Is it just MY submissions that get sent to the trash or anyone else notice this?
"""

One would imagine that about the same percentage of submissions for each get published, and that there are simply more Ubuntu submissions.

If you want Debian to have better visibility, Debian advocates need to get a ticket on the marketing clue train.

You can't just do a good, boring job and expect to magically get noticed.

Edited 2007-04-19 23:23

Reply Score: 3

Out of ideas
by mat69 on Thu 19th Apr 2007 23:37 UTC
mat69
Member since:
2006-03-29

Ati Sapphire X1600 AGP 512 MB.
I hoped that this release will finally solve the problems with my video card, it did not.

I tried so many How Tos to install the fglrx drivers in previous Ubuntu-versions but the result was allways the same: Dissapearing windows if I move them, dissapearing buttons ...

I would be really thankfull if anyone of you could help me - different Ubuntu-Forums could not so far.
Thanks for reading.

mat

Reply Score: 1

RE: Out of ideas
by pcdoctor on Fri 20th Apr 2007 14:54 UTC in reply to "Out of ideas"
pcdoctor Member since:
2007-03-05

linuxforums.org

wish you luck with ATI drivers for Linux, coz ATI have a bad rep for lousy Linux drivers.
You'll find many threads on linuxforums Ubu section, regarding substandard Linux drivers,
including one I started soliciting opinion on just which make of card I should consider for a dedicated Linux box.
Almost everyone responded with a single word - nVidia
i.e. NOT ATI !

Reply Score: 1

Oh boy...
by Sodapop on Fri 20th Apr 2007 01:21 UTC
Sodapop
Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, I'm a Linux newbie and I seem to have a problem. In 6.10 everything worked, in 7.04 Ubuntu starts up in 640x480 and will not let me change resolutions.

I have an Nvidia 6800XT. Is there anything I can do that doesn't require going to hell and back to fix it?. Seems like if it worked in 6.10 it should work in 7.04.

But I'm sure It'll be a great OS just like the others.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Oh boy...
by Kokopelli on Fri 20th Apr 2007 01:32 UTC in reply to "Oh boy..."
Kokopelli Member since:
2005-07-06

It sounds like either your nvidia card or monitor were not recognized. Try launching the restricted driver manager and see if the nvidia drivers are being loaded. Beyond that I would suggest posting on the Ubuntu forums, where the populace is more geared toward answering install problems than article discussion.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Oh boy...
by lemur2 on Fri 20th Apr 2007 03:37 UTC in reply to "Oh boy..."
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

I don't think Ubuntu would fail to recognise your Nvidia video card, as there has to be a great many of those installed on other machines. The problem is almost certain to be detection of your monitor.

If it worked in 6.10 then if you still have the livecd from 6.10 then boot your machine with that livecd, and then plug in a USB memory stick. Copy the file /etc/X11/xorg.conf to the memory stick, and rename the copy as xorg.6.10.conf.

Now reboot your machine in 7.04 Feisty (take the livecd out during reeboot), and open gedit, and load the file xorg.6.10.conf from the USB memory stick. Now open a terminal, and enter the command "sudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf".

Find the section of the "xorg.6.10.conf" file labelled "Monitor". Copy that section to the clipboard. Find the same section in the file "xorg.conf" in the other editor window, delete that section, and paste the text in from the clipboard. This will replace the faulty monitor definition with the definition that worked correctly in 6.10.

It will help to do this same copy & replace exercise for the section labelled "screen".

Save the xorg.conf file and logout. Re-start the X-server from the login screen, and log back in again. Your video should be working now. You should now be able to set the screen resolution that you want, if it is not already fixed.

If you don't fancy replacing just the sections for the Monitor and Screen, then just replace the whole xorg.conf file. It is probably best to take a backup copy first, but if it is only 640x480 that hardly seems worth the trouble.

Edited 2007-04-20 03:43

Reply Score: 1

RE: Oh boy...
by miles on Fri 20th Apr 2007 09:39 UTC in reply to "Oh boy..."
miles Member since:
2006-06-15

If you don't mind a graphical tool in console mode (no mouse, just navigate with arrows, you can also CTRL-ALT-F1, login then :
sudo killall gdm
sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg

Then at the end you can choose Medium for monitor configuration, then select the resolution/refresh rate.

Remember with sudo to type your own password, and also that you don't need to type everything, just the beginning of each command then press Tab and it completes what you're typing.

When everything is ok, type:
sudo gdm

Reply Score: 1

Ubuntu
by gdanko on Fri 20th Apr 2007 03:21 UTC
gdanko
Member since:
2005-07-15

I have a 256m Radeon X800 and 7.04 will only let me go to 1024x768. I've tweaked the xorg.conf with no luck!

Reply Score: 1

No Luck With Compaq Laptop
by jello on Fri 20th Apr 2007 04:44 UTC
jello
Member since:
2006-08-08

Already tried Linux Mint a few weeks ago with the same problem:
Ubuntu Linux does recognize the hardware, but doesn't load the needed driver.

This is the error message:
Loading hardware drivers
firmware_helper[a number]: main: Error loading /lib/firmware/bcm43xx_microcode5.fw for device /class/firmware/000:03:00.0 with driver (unknown)
bcm43xx: Error: Microcode "bcm43xx.microcode5.fw" not available or load failed

After a few more lines of messages Linux tries to initialize the network and stops working.

Have to do a hard reboot.

I tried the 64bit version of Ubuntu (Linux Mint was 32bit) because I have a AMD Turion 64x2 CPU with 2GB of ram, but it looks like to get a 64bit OS and start programming in 64bit I have to install Windows Vista 32bit (free upgrade version) over WinXP-MCE, get the real product key (instead of the oem product key on the label) and order a 64bit DVD and install it.

How sad is that...

Edited 2007-04-20 04:51

Reply Score: 1

RE: No Luck With Compaq Laptop
by alvinchey on Fri 20th Apr 2007 15:49 UTC in reply to "No Luck With Compaq Laptop"
alvinchey Member since:
2007-04-20

Based on the error message, you probably have a Broadcom wireless card. The firmware is also needed besides the driver.

For my Slackware 11.0, I extracted the firmware with bcm43xx-fwcutter. This program will extract the firmware from the wifi card driver files. You will need to copy the extracted firmware files into /lib/firmware.

Reply Score: 1

RE: No Luck With Compaq Laptop
by Devilotx on Fri 20th Apr 2007 17:16 UTC in reply to "No Luck With Compaq Laptop"
Devilotx Member since:
2005-07-06

I hear you, I have the same issues with my HP Pavillion DV6110US,

My advice, boot in VGA mode with noacpi passed at boot, install it that way, then get the Nvidia drivers (latest) installed, that fixes it.

I had hoped fiesty would be a smoother install then edgy was, but I was wrong. I blew out my vista install, tonight I get to rebuild it again ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: No Luck With Compaq Laptop
by pcdoctor on Sat 21st Apr 2007 19:54 UTC in reply to "RE: No Luck With Compaq Laptop"
pcdoctor Member since:
2007-03-05

"I had hoped Fiesty would be a smoother install then Edgy was, but I was wrong.
I blew out my Vista install, tonight I get to rebuild it again ;) "


Was that Ubuntu that screwed-up, or GRUB ??

I visit the Ubuntu section at linuxforums dot org
and am constantly astonished at the repetitious volume of dual-booting complaints re.GRUB, on and on they go.

I just use separate hard drives for separate Operating Systems,
and avoid any of this recurring GRUB-malfunction nonsense.

Reply Score: 1

Devilotx Member since:
2005-07-06

No, it's was my mistake, I formated the Vista install when I was partitioning because I got a phone call while I was installing and I got distracted.

Reply Score: 1

Worth downloading or wait for 7.10?
by Sabz on Fri 20th Apr 2007 05:42 UTC
Sabz
Member since:
2005-07-07

Wait for Ubuntu 7.10?

Reply Score: 1

huge disappointment
by arctic on Fri 20th Apr 2007 09:20 UTC
arctic
Member since:
2006-04-19

All this talk about "feisty - amazing" "wait for it, it is marvelous" "Everything jut works" etc in the past few weeks was raising expectations. Now I have tested Feisty and it is slow and buggy.

The live-CD needs e.g. a whopping five minutes for booting, gparted clutters my desktop with dozens of nautilus windows for partitions that were not mounted before I clicked on the gparted icon, the software-install-app is still far from ideal, there are no usable runtime-level based config-tools for services by default and and and.

I am really disappointed. IMO, Mandrivas Spring release, which is not as popular as Ubuntus Feisty as it seems, is a hell of a lot better. Ubuntu has still a long way to go until their system-administration tools and its security are on a par with distros like Fedora or Mandriva.

Sorry, guys, but from my experience, Ubuntu is definitely not "the best" distro out there. Neither in feature richness (pure debian), nor in administrative-tools (Mandriva/Fedora/RHEL), ease of use (Mandriva),system security (Fedora/RHEL) or stability (Slackware, RHEL, debian). Feisty is basically a mediocre distro imho - but it gets really good marketing.

Now.. let's see how fast I will get modded down by the Ubuntu-fanboys. ;)

Reply Score: 5

RE: huge disappointment
by miles on Fri 20th Apr 2007 09:54 UTC in reply to "huge disappointment"
miles Member since:
2006-06-15

Why would we have to mod you down? Are you that childish?

Don't care what you think. I've been with Mandriva/Red Hat, and for me they were just junk. I don't spend time writing my opinion on each Mandriva/RH news, though...

And when I'm talking junk, I especially think about their ###### system-administration tools ;)

Feisty just work with the 3 computers I've installed it on, and just flies on the athlon 800 mhz I'm using atm. No tweaks, everything recognised by default.

That's why so many ppl use it - not because of the hype (I considered Mandriva junk even when it was "the thing" back when they were called Mandrake) - but because it works for them. Guess you think that since because it doesn't work on your hardware, it's not possible it works perfectly for the majority of ppl using it. Usually, people tends to understand that the world doesn't revolves around them in their 3rd or 4rth year. I bet you're quite the gifted baby ;)

I'm quite happy Mandriva/Red Hat work better for others, and I don't think just because they don't work for me they should be junk for everybody else.

Reply Score: 4

RE: huge disappointment
by lemur2 on Fri 20th Apr 2007 10:20 UTC in reply to "huge disappointment"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

{The live-CD needs e.g. a whopping five minutes for booting,}

A liveCD has to discover all your hardware, make configuration files to suit, then boot the OS.

How long does it take a Windows liveCD to discover your hardware ... ... ... ... oh, wait.

{I am really disappointed. IMO, Mandrivas Spring release, which is not as popular as Ubuntus Feisty as it seems, is a hell of a lot better.}

Meh. Try Kubuntu. IMO its better.

{Sorry, guys, but from my experience, Ubuntu is definitely not "the best" distro out there. Neither in feature richness (pure debian), nor in administrative-tools (Mandriva/Fedora/RHEL), ease of use (Mandriva),system security (Fedora/RHEL) or stability (Slackware, RHEL, debian).}

So don't use it then.

Personally, I rate PCLinuxOS above them all, but Kubuntu wins for me because it is more popular, and hence there is a large choice of software available for it and a much larger community means it has better support.

I'm not convinced that you aren't just out to try to find something negative to type about Ubuntu. That wouldn't suprise me one little bit. It would seem that there are a large number of people being "monetarily incentivated" to do something like that this week.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: huge disappointment
by JimF on Fri 20th Apr 2007 13:05 UTC in reply to "RE: huge disappointment"
JimF Member since:
2006-10-17

How long does it take a Windows liveCD to discover your hardware ... ... ... ... oh, wait.


You haven't heard of Bart PE? Do a google search for them, it's a handy tech tool even if it's only to soothe people's insecurities when they "don't want you breaking their system with that damned Knoppix thingy" and you don't have the hour to explain it to them like they're 6 so they'll get it.

That said, last I used it it was about as fast as Knoppix, which is actually faster than the Ubuntu LiveCD.

I'm not convinced that you aren't just out to try to find something negative to type about Ubuntu. That wouldn't suprise me one little bit. It would seem that there are a large number of people being "monetarily incentivated" to do something like that this week.


In more mainstream media, possibly. It would take quite a bit of tin-foil hat mentality for me to believe that there would be shills planting seeds of dissent on places like this. As great a site as this is, it doesn't have the exposure that things like PC Magazine have, so the MoG's of the world will target those.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: huge disappointment
by lemur2 on Fri 20th Apr 2007 13:30 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: huge disappointment"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

{You haven't heard of Bart PE?}

http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/

Not a Microsoft product.

My point stands. It remains highly ironic (and quite suspect) for anyone to criticise Ubuntu for the liveCD being a bit slow when that same liveCD is many, many times faster and easier than any Microsoft method of installing Windows.

{That said, last I used it it was about as fast as Knoppix, which is actually faster than the Ubuntu LiveCD. }

The Ubuntu liveCD is "targeted" at being a test then doing an install to HD. The Knoppix liveCD isn't.

I suspect the Ubuntu liveCD hardware discovery process does a lot more preparation for an eventual install to hard disk than the Knoppix hardware discovery process does.

Certainly you can install from a Knoppix liveCD to hard disk, but the process for doing that is far more unwieldy for Knoppix than it is for Ubuntu.

Edited 2007-04-20 13:40

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: huge disappointment
by JimF on Fri 20th Apr 2007 13:55 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: huge disappointment"
JimF Member since:
2006-10-17


Not a Microsoft product.

My point stands. It remains highly ironic (and quite suspect) for anyone to criticise Ubuntu for the liveCD being a bit slow when that same liveCD is many, many times faster and easier than any Microsoft method of installing Windows.


Bart PE is no more a Windows product than Knoppix is a Debian product. I don't see how your point stands on this. Granted, there are a lot of methods of installation faster than Windows or Mac OS.

As long as you brought up the point, the question of criticism of the Ubuntu "live CD" install isn't one of comparing it to Windows, but more of one questioning why there are many other LiveCD's out there, with a Debian base like Ubuntu, that can boot faster and if this slower boot is due to a bug, a lack of optimization, or something extra-good that it's doing in the background that projects like Knoppix aren't doing.

I suspect the Ubuntu liveCD hardware discovery process does a lot more preparation for an eventual install to hard disk than the Knoppix hardware discovery process does.

Certainly you can install from a Knoppix liveCD to hard disk, but the process for doing that is far more unwieldy for Knoppix than it is for Ubuntu.


The language you're using here suggests that you don't know, for certain, exactly why Ubuntu Live boots more slowly than Knoppix. That's OK. Neither do I. The point of all this is that there is, somewhere, some reason for this being, and that pointing this out does not mean it should be taken any more suspect than someone saying "this GNU/Linux or BSD does something right, how can we incorporate this advancement in FOSS software." Perhaps it might be in the interest of both Open Source projects to do a little collaboration on this point. Ubuntu LiveCD Installs would start faster, and Knoppix would gain a better HD install tool.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: huge disappointment
by TusharG on Fri 20th Apr 2007 15:21 UTC in reply to "huge disappointment"
TusharG Member since:
2005-07-06

Its ok your disappointed! Carry on with Redhat and Mandriva...

For me and for my company we have installed Ubuntu on 48 machines with different hardware and its working the same way on all machines and all users are happy. I'm also happy to support them!
I've also seen people complaining about Ubuntu hype... but for me I've not seen Ubuntu creating that hype... its the end users who are cherishing it. If it was not worth people would have thrown it... but Ubuntu is worth of that hype... it may not be as polish as everyone expectations but the path on which its walking its worth noticing.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: huge disappointment
by netpython on Fri 20th Apr 2007 19:00 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: huge disappointment"
netpython Member since:
2005-07-06

it may not be as polish as everyone expectations but the path on which its walking its worth noticing.

Exactly,Ubuntu exists and contributes significantly to a positive linux experience.

Reply Score: 2

Security question
by garymax on Fri 20th Apr 2007 17:25 UTC
garymax
Member since:
2006-01-23

I installed Feisty last night and am using Firestarter as a firewall. I went to secure the host.allow and host.deny files and they are nowhere to be found in the /etc directory.

What gives? A new security mechanism at work here?

Reply Score: 1

ewww
by computrius on Fri 20th Apr 2007 17:30 UTC
computrius
Member since:
2006-03-26

Will they ever drop that horrible puke/brown color?

Reply Score: 1

v RE: ewww
by Southern.Pride on Fri 20th Apr 2007 18:09 UTC in reply to "ewww"
Dumb question:
by BSDrama on Fri 20th Apr 2007 17:35 UTC
BSDrama
Member since:
2006-11-27

Anyone know how to upgrade from Kubuntu Feisty Fawn beta to final?

Thanks in advance.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Dumb question:
by archiesteel on Fri 20th Apr 2007 18:10 UTC in reply to "Dumb question:"
archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

Open up a terminal and type "sudo apt-get update" then "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade".

Reply Score: 2

Mickael Dell
by Duffman on Fri 20th Apr 2007 21:00 UTC
Duffman
Member since:
2005-11-23

"it also seems that Michael Dell has it installed too."

Yes, and with 4 Windows Vista ultimate edition.
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp/biographies/en/...

So what does it mean ?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Mickael Dell
by miles on Sat 21st Apr 2007 11:41 UTC in reply to "Mickael Dell"
miles Member since:
2006-06-15

Maybe he needs 4 Vistas to do the job 1 Linux computer can do ;)

Reply Score: 1

Ubuntu = Windows?
by Southern.Pride on Fri 20th Apr 2007 22:44 UTC
Southern.Pride
Member since:
2006-09-14

The only Linux distro known to man all others should give up now and be assimilated by the UBUN-BORG machines.

I cease to find the shock and awe of Ubuntu right off the bat you are greeted by jungle drums and when you change a setting Africa is listed above all others countries (what’s that mean?)….


Oh well I guess I should end using Red Hat since 1999 because they have some X-windows click style installer for stuff I would never use. Meanwhile the hype continues to build; now I guess Fedora, OpenSUSE, and the other hundreds should just quit.

Reply Score: 0

RE: Ubuntu = Windows?
by netpython on Sat 21st Apr 2007 04:58 UTC in reply to "Ubuntu = Windows?"
netpython Member since:
2005-07-06

Oh well I guess I should end using Red Hat since 1999 because they have some X-windows click style installer for stuff I would never use. Meanwhile the hype continues to build; now I guess Fedora, OpenSUSE, and the other hundreds should just quit.

On the contrary, you should use what works for you.Whatever OS that might be.Ubuntu or linux in general isn't a silver bullet for all your OS needs although many people have positive experiences working with Ubuntu.Your mileage may vary.

Reply Score: 1

Flawless upgrade!
by Dubbayoo on Sat 21st Apr 2007 06:35 UTC
Dubbayoo
Member since:
2006-02-09

from Ubuntu 6.10 to 7.04

OTOH, I have been here for years and I still have no idea WTF being modded up or down means.

Edited 2007-04-21 06:47

Reply Score: 1

Downloaded, but even can't take a look
by Coder2 on Sat 21st Apr 2007 11:52 UTC
Coder2
Member since:
2007-04-21

Ubuntu has failed to recognize HDDs on my system. I've dig through theirs forums: there are tons of claims about support of the Intel ICH8 controller and the JMicron add-on. Nobody has managed to install it smoothly on i965 motherboards, and I'm not sure that someone even got it worked at all.

That behavior isn't acceptable for a desktop OS. I'm so disappointed and angry with this.

Reply Score: 1

chris_dk Member since:
2005-07-12

Well, direct your disappointment at Intel and JMicron, not Linux.

Reply Score: 1

pistooli Member since:
2005-07-09

"Nobody has managed to install it smoothly on i965 motherboards"

I am using it (on i965 mobo)since beta2 and satisfied with it...

Reply Score: 1

Coder2 Member since:
2007-04-21

So, how did you do it? On my system it prints a couple error messages about SATA commands and dies.

Reply Score: 1