Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 22nd May 2007 21:48 UTC
Window Managers Dwm 4.1 has been released. "dwm is a dynamic window manager for X. It manages windows in tiled and floating layouts. Either layout can be applied dynamically, optimizing the environment for the application in use and the task performed. It is the little brother of wmii."
Order by: Score:
Hmm...
by hobgoblin on Tue 22nd May 2007 22:30 UTC
hobgoblin
Member since:
2005-07-06

Im thinking that something like either dwm or wmii with the right kind of "apps" to handle the file work could work equally well as a desktop or a portable gui. Just make sure that its designed for fingers first...

Browser: Opera/8.01 (J2ME/MIDP; Opera Mini/3.1.7139/1682; nb; U; ssr)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Hmm...
by broken_symlink on Tue 22nd May 2007 22:36 UTC in reply to "Hmm..."
broken_symlink Member since:
2005-07-06

i'm using wmii on netbsd/hpcmips with a clio 1050. the system has a touchscreen that works in netbsd and is calibrated. after about a week of compiling apps it has turned out to be a very useful system. i installed irssi, naim, elinks with x11 stuff, gv, and aterm for some nice transparency. i've also installed ruby and am working on emacs21 and clisp, so i can use the system for development. wmii is not bad. very lightweight. when i start building a couple of packages at the same time though it will lag, but hey it beats carrying around a full laptop.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Hmm...
by jessta on Wed 23rd May 2007 06:45 UTC in reply to "Hmm..."
jessta Member since:
2005-08-17

I've been using dwm for the past 3 months.
I really like it.
What to you mean by "right kind of "apps" to handle the file work"?
I use xterm to do file managing.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Hmm...
by marafaka on Wed 23rd May 2007 09:33 UTC in reply to "RE: Hmm..."
marafaka Member since:
2006-01-03

I still use WMI on all my computers (except servers), as I can remove all the menus and borders and it works fine with Thunderbird, of which I'm not exactly sure when I'll toss it (I mean toss one app and have to install couple others on couple other computers?! I'll rather forget about email!).

Though the DWM screenshot with Gimp looks fine and I'll give it another ride sooner or later.

PS: Nice piece Thom, I bet your music taste is getting better too ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Hmm...
by hobgoblin on Wed 23rd May 2007 10:42 UTC in reply to "RE: Hmm..."
hobgoblin Member since:
2005-07-06

you can say i have a interesting in going a bit kparts. so as to go away from individual programs, and focus on the tasks the user wants to do.

want to create a new file? more often then not people first fire up the app, make the file and then save it, resulting in some dialog.

instead i would like to have them find where they want to save it, select "new file (type)", the window morph into the editor and your on your way.

yes, i know there are areas of use where something like this falls flat. but right now its just a rough idea...

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Hmm...
by marafaka on Wed 23rd May 2007 10:57 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Hmm..."
marafaka Member since:
2006-01-03

So you basically use computer to create files? Well, I use it to communicate with people, organize, archive media, create art etc. But if you like files then you will like WMII too - you have one window for one file there.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Hmm...
by hobgoblin on Wed 23rd May 2007 20:25 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Hmm..."
hobgoblin Member since:
2005-07-06

create art? sounds like creating a file to me, as said art will most likely be represented by a file when stored.

communicate with people is one of those things that at present may not properly fit under my thinking.

note however that this is not something out of the blue. look at plan 9, where everything is a object/file...

my thinking is that instead of having distinct programs to do distinct tasks, the interface would morph depending on what your working on. the buttons and menus available to you would depend on what kind of object/file that are at any moment active...

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Hmm...
by marafaka on Wed 23rd May 2007 23:14 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Hmm..."
marafaka Member since:
2006-01-03

You're right, but I want to escape from thinking as a developer. Coz file, button and menu are developer tools, not something the end user would want to ... store on a disk, or see visualized on a screen, or have a natural urge to double kick it.

Maybe it's not obvious to people adapted to computers, but if you tell an unspoiled soul he can use a computer to create music, he surely doesn't have file backups and menu chasing on his mind.

I remember seeing a first windowing GUI on C= 64. I didn't get it. It did not occur to me that people would like to shuffle windows to see what they hid behind them couple of seconds ago and such. And it is still obviously wrong.

Anyway, big fat _thank you_ to Anselm.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Hmm...
by hobgoblin on Thu 24th May 2007 00:41 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Hmm..."
hobgoblin Member since:
2005-07-06

how about this then, make the desktop area your home folder. as in, all new files are created on your desktop, and that desktop area would basically be your /home/"username" (to use unix as a basis).

and when working on a file, or even part of a file, the menus and icons made available to you are those that have any function of what your working on.

so that if you mark a bit of text, the only menus presented are those that have with formating and other manipulation of said text.

also, remember that i talked about the screen morphing.

the way i envision it is a bit like a full screen firefox session.

up top you have a general message area. as messages pile up, they will scroll as a ticker tape. this is so that no message from some other task running in the background can pop up and grab focus on what your working on at any moment. if the area is clicked (and held), one can move the mouse (or the stylus or finger) left and right to have it scroll that way (as on, the closer it is to one of the edges, the faster it will scroll). as new messages pass under the mouse (or whatever) they will highlight. when released, the currently highlighted message will be triggered. bringing whatever sent said message to front. this will not remove the message if its related to some kind of query (if all it wants is to bring something to the attention of the user, say a new message in a im session, it will go away. a older message of that kind will be overwritten by a new one from the same source btw).

there is also a menu (hidden under a clock in the corner, or something similar) that give you the "new file" menu, and a list of tools (calculator and so on, could also be games. but mostly i would stuff under some kind of entertainment center tool that would turn the screen into something like the windows media center) that have no files that they work on directly (these will most likely work a bit like osx dashboard in that the tool would float over the rest, but go away the moment you "click outside it". the "background" would be kinda grayed out to show it not being active).

right below this message area is the menu area. this will present the user with menus related to the current active file/opbject/whatever (or maybe one should go osx fully, and make the menu top, and move the message ticker to the bottom?).

below that again, a general url entry area (or for that matter a search/sort entry area).

now, when a file is opened, new menu entries will be shown, and the file will grab the screen. (this isnt a window going over the "desktop", its the desktop window changing into showing the file).

the interesting thing here is to grab the idea from dwm/wmii and similar, and allow the user to split the screen so that he can show more then one file at the same time if needed.

remember, if you want to alter a file but keep the original intact, you first copy the file then alter the copy. not open the file, alter it, then try to save it under a new name. optionally, one could do alterations. split the screen, make a copy, then save. but never should the user be presented with a watered down version of the main file browser window (as in the save/open dialog window).

when a window is split, each half would have its own menu and url area.

now if a action results in a dialog, it should be presented like how ie7 (and firefox lately) does it. basically a strip at the top or bottom of the window, not a dialog box.

i hope that gives a rough idea of what i envision. some parts are probably more workable then others, and i keep adding new stuff all the time.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Hmm...
by marafaka on Thu 24th May 2007 04:45 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Hmm..."
marafaka Member since:
2006-01-03

Sorry, I'm late for the office and cannot give your post as much attention as I'd like. Anybody has any idea where we could continue conversation on semantic interfaces?

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Hmm...
by jessta on Wed 23rd May 2007 12:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Hmm..."
jessta Member since:
2005-08-17

Files are pointless abstractions.
What you want is data.

Pipes is where it's at. Plumbing with pipes.

Reply Score: 2

Its very nice but it is just better...
by eol_of_urnst on Wed 23rd May 2007 12:26 UTC
eol_of_urnst
Member since:
2006-08-08

... to use Plan 9 :-D
(Let the flames roll)

Reply Score: 2

gavin.mccord Member since:
2005-09-07

Prefer Turing machines myself..

Reply Score: 1

marafaka Member since:
2006-01-03

Yeah, have one installed here but hate the GUI - too stylish and mousy. Is there DWM for Plan9 ?:)

Reply Score: 1

elitist?
by parentaladvisory on Wed 23rd May 2007 14:49 UTC
parentaladvisory
Member since:
2006-12-18

From their website


Because dwm is customized through editing its source code, it's pointless to make binary packages of it. This keeps its userbase small and elitist. No novices asking stupid questions.


Well, what on earth makes people think that the Linux community is hostile to newcomers, with RTFM and whatnot ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE: elitist?
by marafaka on Wed 23rd May 2007 16:26 UTC in reply to "elitist?"
marafaka Member since:
2006-01-03

It helps the developers, as it says, plus it helps hacker-wannabes from disappointments. After 10 years of life behind the screen they're not that much disappointed when they finally put their shiny WIMP where it belongs ;)

Oh, and what does it have to do with the Linux kernel? Maybe you mean GNU/Linux? Nothing again.

Edited 2007-05-23 16:39

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: elitist?
by parentaladvisory on Wed 23rd May 2007 18:33 UTC in reply to "RE: elitist?"
parentaladvisory Member since:
2006-12-18

Oh, and what does it have to do with the Linux kernel? Maybe you mean GNU/Linux? Nothing again.


Yeah I meant GNU/Linux as everyone else who writes "linux".

Reply Score: 2

RE: elitist?
by Soulbender on Thu 24th May 2007 03:34 UTC in reply to "elitist?"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"Well, what on earth makes people think that the Linux community is hostile to newcomers, with RTFM and whatnot ;) "

Ah yes, because nothing is more accurate then judging an entire worldwide community based on the opinions of one developer of one small project.
I guess what we can learn from this is that all Windows users are prejudicial morons.

Reply Score: 2

I don't get it
by walterbyrd on Thu 24th May 2007 01:50 UTC
walterbyrd
Member since:
2005-12-31

What is different about it? What is special about it? Where are the screenshots? Why does it suck less? Why are most posters here not ever discussing it?

Reply Score: 2