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GNOME is really weird about that. On my Thinkpad, all I see are Blank Screen and Shutdown. I have to wander into GConf->gnome-power-manager to enable suspend and hibernate and get them to show up for some reason. Also, the suspend bar doesn't let me choose anything less than 11 minutes on battery power, but anyways...

I need a new laptop and this review was very appropos to me; I had heard some issues with Ubuntu on their laptops, but reading this shows that there really aren't any bad issues. The competition between Dell and System76 should be very interesting to watch, since S76 has a great head start.

Edited 2007-05-24 00:54

>On my Thinkpad, all I see are Blank Screen and Shutdown.

Then it's your distro's ACPI script support not complete, and so Gnome can't pick it up from that point. If you run Ubuntu the options should be there.

It's a configuration option as you just saw in gconf-editor. Doesn't seem a problem with Power Management!
The suspend bar can be adjusted lower than 11 minutes, if you adjust screensaver to less than 10 minutes. This is a behavior of gnome-screensaver if I'm not wrong.

"""
I agree. System76 should have modified this behavior before selling their machine.
"""

Ask them on the System76 forum of the Ubuntu Forums. They (System76 employees) are very open and available there.

The idea of enabling suspend is obvious enough that I'm sure thought went into the default setting for System 76 machines, and that it was not just inattention to detail.

Yes, that's why it's called feisty fawn

Edited 2007-05-25 12:05

Please read more carefully. Adam is speaking of the network settings, not NetworkManager. NetworkManager which sits in the panel does search for networks, as long as the driver allows it to do so.

I know what he was referring to. Now exactly why would a network "settings" app search for an ssid? It's not for on-the-fly network switching. It's for configuring the network. Had he looked in the proper place, as in right-in-front-of-his-face he would have seen that it does search out ssids for that purpose.

Edited 2007-05-24 01:38

Sorry pal, but if wireless is part of a network setting app, it should offer the whole deal of features. Why? Because it is the obvious place to look at. Many people don't click the small obscure icons in the panel and instead are trying to configure/fix things under "Administration". Simply, because it's the obvious place to look at first.

I have to disagree with you here Eugenia. Network Manager is the new default app for searching and connecting to Wireless networks, it's on by default and it's in an obvious place (if only because people who migrate from Windows are used to having their wireless networks accessible through the "tray").

I understand Adam might have been used to a different way of doing things, but personally (even though I'm not a Gnome user) I think the way Ubuntu does it is really the way to go.

Don't get me wrong - I'm the same way...I don't like it when they change the UI around (I could never stand the new control panel layout in XP, and always switched to classic view - don't get me started about Vista). However, this is one instance where, once past the initial annoyance, it all smooth sailing.

What the hell are you talking about, dude?

All I said was that I get grumpy when they change the UI around - NOT that the ones they did in Linux are good while those in Vista are bad!

I your ever-predictable rush to pick a fight and defend your precious OS, you made some assumptions that are, well, wrong. And now you look like a fool. Again. (And you're off-topic, too.)

As far as using NetworkManager, I'm not sure that's a Gnome decision, but rather a Ubuntu decision.

God have mercy on our souls...

Remember it was ubuntu edgy, an old version

I can confirm. This seems to be a new bug. The URLs are changing from news_id=XXXX to the new naming standard Adam added on osnews, but on the way the $page variable is not carried through... This is a newly created bug, I will poke Adam about it. Thanks for the report.

I just fixed it. It should be ok now.

I have yet to run it down completely, but I have gotten over 4 hours.

Four hours? That's pretty damn good.

My Toshiba bit the dust after about a whopping year due to being poorly engineered (heat and cheap components) and I was thinking about getting another x86 laptop as I figure that mine will crap out again, even if sent for repairs.

So I was thinking about System76, but wanted to read some reviews first. And along comes this one, which sounds pretty good. (Minor software annoyances don't bother me. Hell, even some hardware goofiness isn't unacceptable: I have a Tadpole Sparcle, an UltraSparc laptop.)

So thanks for the review. There any other System76 reviews around?

The disclaimer, of course, is that it depends what you're doing. If you compile a new kernel and run Folding@Home or BOINC, that will yield a different result than if you spend 4 hours in gedit and Firefox.

I'm thinking that 4 terms open with ssh wouldn't be too draining.

I do wish that they had a Unix style keyboard. My Sparcle has one and I've got so used to it so quickly that normal PC keyboards get on my nerves.

"Is it blasphemous to ask the developers to add an 'auto-skip' button for such things? "

I dunno, did you ask them?

Surely, you can't blame System76 for a perceived problem with an application?

Exactly, there are other applications out there... Picasa seems to work well.

If you're planning on putting Linux on it, I wouldn't recommend going with Toshiba. They have a tendency to make their hardware very tied to Windows.

Dell said they will be bundling linux drivers for their connexant modems. :-)

Since System76 only sells Linux hardware, I'm guessing that if it has a modem, it works.

We recently started to sell similar OEM laptops in the U.K. The first huge difference between buying from a Linux OEM and any other is that you're pretty much guaranteed to have all your hardware working. A retail laptop might work with 90% of the hardware included but when a new user finds that the modem doesn't work it is more that just a minor hassle.

The other big difference buying from ourselves is that there is no Window's tax, I assume System76 have avoided it too. You wont see much of a reduction in the price because the cost of a licence on these laptops is a pittance and the extra costs involved to certify hardware more than close that gap.

I completely understand the worry about fiddling with bluetooth and hibernate. That's why we didn't choose to include bluetooth in our current line up and wont be adding it until we can guarantee it works. The hibernate issue is harder to avoid but we went with the set of hardware we found works best.

So if your main concern is cost and you're happy to fight with a Broadcom Wifi chip and maybe accept the odd crash due an ATI video card then buy retail. If you want reliability and a nice enjoyable user experience then checkout System76 or a XePhi Computer if you're in Europe:
http://www.linuxlaptops.eu/
(Warning: site may be missing pages due to redevelopment but core functionality is back now.)

I see the point of selling a laptop designed with Linux in mind and bundling it with a Linux distribution pre-installed. What irks me is the "System76 driver." What is this, and why is it distributed separately from the rest of the Ubuntu distribution? If they've done kernel work, why is it not being submitted for inclusion in the mainline?

Because it *gurantees* you that all hardware is supported in linux unlike those other brands you mention.

Well, from the point of view I asked, that doesn't really matter.

It really does matter. How do you know the hardware will work?

If it doesn't you've got no recourse because it wasn't sold with Linux and if you discover a hardware fault after a month chances are you voided your warranty by installing Linux.

Just because you see a review doesn't mean the vendor wont change a component and still sell it under the same model number. This happens an awful lot with WiFi cards because it's a really easy way to drive down costs.

When we specify the hardware for our laptops we always get asked if we want a cheaper WiFi card in there "because it's what people do" to save money. And we're not talking about a difference of $5 here it's a big difference but we pay the extra for a card that works 100% with Linux and just doesn't give any hassle.

I see your point, but remember, I wasn't asking from a newbie or a corporate deployment point of view.

I really don't have any offensive intentions here. I just happen to wonder whether such laptops are worth considering for us others (or for me, if I'm alone with this ) I don't think this is a big deal, maybe I shouldn't have even asked.

If I order a laptop with certain specs and I get one with different specs, then I return it. About knowing what will work, well, I'm not a guru and I'm not a linux hacker, but I've been using Linux for many years and I know what is a safe bet. Meaning I know what to look for when buying a laptop if I intend to use Linux on it. Yes, I'm a niche, but even two posts above this has been the point of view I've tried to represent.



Yes, I've heard and read stories on the issue (related to hp) recently. That's why is always a safe bet to not wipe the windows partition, just shrink it to minimal thus unless the hard drive fails you can regrow the partition and restore the mbr before giving it to servicing.

Edited 2007-05-24 13:53

Interesting idea. Unfortunately, choosing Apple as the hardware vendor will likely limit the attractiveness of your offerings to new Linux users.

Interesting idea. Unfortunately, choosing Apple as the hardware vendor will likely limit the attractiveness of your offerings to new Linux users.

No, that doesn't make any sense. Apple hardware is standardized. If you get a Macbook, you know exactly what's gonna be in there. That makes it much easier to come up with a distro that works with everything out of the box.

You could even argue that if someone is willing to buy a Mac, they're willing to take the plunge away from Windows. Create an attractive, easy to manage/use distro that works hassle free on the Macs, and you've got a shot at switching users.

This doesn't help you if you know exactly that it won't work.

E.g. if some parts do not work with Linux because the hardware vendor does not support drivers in any way (e.g. broadcom).

Apple might have some special deal to get their drivers, Linux distributions might not.

Additionally it will be pretty difficult to get Apple hardware without Mac OS X

Exactly. I had been checking the same thing before reading your post.

Macbook:

Specifications

* 2.16GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
* 1GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x512
* 120GB Serial ATA @ 5400 rpm
* SuperDrive 8x (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
* AirPort Extreme Card & Bluetooth

$1,299.00

Darter Ultra with similar specs:

$1,588.00

For those comparing the price with Macbook. This is nearly a pound lighter (5.1 vs 4.3lb). Now many of us might not care about that difference but this kind of weight difference also comes with a price difference. On the other hand, if you customize the Gazelle range (bigger screen - 5.5lb), you get a similar price to the Macbook.

Edited 2007-05-24 12:55

That is a good point too, although personally I still prefer the Macbook (it runs OS X as well)

The Darter comes with an integrated modem, an integrated memory card reader, more and better located USB ports, and a nice case. Just to make things a little more even.

OK, I acknowledge that

And a smaller trackpad, no camera.... and the big kicker: DVI out. I can hook my computer up to my plasma a display photos, or movies, or.... whatever.

I think the better deal is still the Macbook. I don't want to pay 300 bones for a a card reader and a "better located USB".

After using my macbook for a month now I have never thought to myself, "Hey... I wish this laptop had a better located USB port"

I used my Macbook Pro for 9 months before I finally said "this is nuts" and sold it. Now I think it everytime I have to switch the ports on my iMac. USB location *is* important for some people.

Linux support for notebooks has improved a lot in the last few years, so you have a very good chance that if you buy a notebook. Linux will run fine on it. I'd avoid ATI cards, but the GMA950 is fine.

They do! There are a few "gotchas" - most are Ubuntu bugs, not System76 bugs, some are fixed with Feisty, and the some are not bugs but settings which you can change easily yourself.

It's not much different than complaining that when you bought your Dell there was a Windows exploit, and then blaming Dell for it!

Edited 2007-05-24 14:26 UTC

I tried Ubunto, it's not as gast as my gentoo distribution!

Freudian slip and typo in one sentence? Did you mean "ghastly" when you wrote gast?

I've upgraded Ubuntu 5.10 (or 09 or 11, whatever it was) to the latest with no problems either. Prior to that, it was a Debian Sid box that has been upgraded for 2 - 3 years before I gave Ubuntu a go.

You do not need to compile things from the source to have such ease of maintainability. Debian has been doing that long before Gentoo became popular. There's nothing about Gentoo that will inherently make it better for power users. If anything, you're confusing power users with ricers

Edited 2007-05-25 11:38

Bah. Compiling on a desktop machine gives you a speed bump that, for most tasks, is negligible at best. For most people, it isn't worth the extra time and energy required just for installation!

But that doesn't stop Gentoo geeks from coming to every forums possible and posting off topic comments to pimp their distro of choice.