Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 25th May 2007 17:15 UTC, submitted by Dale Smoker
Hardware, Embedded Systems When Dell put up its IdeaStorm community-feedback site, the company was surprised by the strong response in favor of shipping personal computers with Linux. The PC company then announced that it would offer Ubuntu Linux on select systems, and as of yesterday, they are taking orders. Ubuntu Linux is now available on the XPS 410n high-end desktop system at USD 849 (compared with USD 899 for the same machine with Windows installed), the E520n desktop at USD 599, and the E1505n notebook at USD 599. For now, the Ubuntu systems will only be available to customers in the United States. Availability is expected 'in the coming weeks' according to an announcement given on May 1, but Dell.com lists a shipping time of three to five days.
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RE
by Kroc on Fri 25th May 2007 17:27 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

IMO, the profits on many machines are already razor thin as it is for Dell. The Windows machines are guaranteed to sell, no question - the Linux ones? Well, it's new and untested waters for Dell. I think they want to see how it goes really. Also, bear in mind that they would have had to setup official support infrastructure for Linux and that could have cost a hefty amount, factored into the price of the machine.

Give it time, and don't judge Dell now - "celebrate progress, don't wait to reach perfection"

Reply Score: 5

RE
by Moulinneuf on Fri 25th May 2007 19:54 UTC in reply to "RE"
Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

Your surely don't know what your talking about at all.

"Well, it's new and untested waters for Dell."

Mar. 07, 2006

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3822185143.html

" So it is, Dell continued, that "on the desktop we have the nSeries, so that the user can pick the Linux he wants." "

"It's not like Dell didn't try a Linux desktop, Dell added. The Austin, Texas-based company "tried that with Red Hat on the OptiPlex and Dimension lines, but we had too many people not buying and saying we picked the wrong one." By 2001, Dell was no longer offering a Linux desktop to its usual retail customers."

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-271006.html

http://lwn.net/2001/0809/press.php3

GNU/Linux was shipped on Dell in 2000 but Red Hat Dropped support for the *USER* desktop completely and the Office suit where not on par to what they are now.
Microsoft made threat to Dell preferential treatment too at the time , but Red Hat not supporting there own offer was the real killer.

"The Windows machines are guaranteed to sell, no question "

Dell don't make machine first and then try to sell them like other vendors , they actually make the sale first , if Windows was selling no problem at Dell as you wrongly suggest , they would not have lost there #1 position and would not even consider offering GNU/Linux.

"bear in mind that they would have had to setup official support infrastructure for Linux"

They make millions selling GNU/Linux servers and most of there support staff use and have high qualification on GNU/Linux.

" the profits on many machines are already razor thin as it is for Dell. "

Anyone intelligent can build similar machine for 35% less on Hardware cost alone , with sometime better parts , its on service , delivery time , warranty and software offers that Dell will crush anyone else. Witch they leverage by selling hundred of thousand of computers.

Normal people and company and even big one don't have the buying power , negotiation power and same support from hardware vendor that Dell as.

I really doubt that you have billions in your back yard that you haven't yet taken order for or fully paid for :

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/88/dell.html#content

"Give it time, and don't judge Dell now "

Wait until Apple as passed them in sale ? Sorry , Dell as to offer the best now , to compete on the market today. Not wait for there competition to let them catch up ...

Its a nice first offer , but its really low and sub-par to any Windows launch in comparison.

They don't offer it worldwide , they are not showing them on there main selection page :

http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/notebooks?c=us&c...

"Narrow Your Selection" does not have *Ubuntu computers*

etc ...

I like Dell to a point and I really like Ubuntu , but I am really disappointed to see that the community support more Hardware and offers then they do.

3 Ubuntu Offer at Dell VS all of Windows.

Just making sure that Ubuntu work on all shipping hardware and that a free Dell Ubuntu rescue CD is included in the box with Windows offers would also help.

Reply Score: 5

RE
by StephenBeDoper on Fri 25th May 2007 20:07 UTC in reply to "RE"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Just making sure that Ubuntu work on all shipping hardware and that a free Dell Ubuntu rescue CD is included in the box with Windows offers would also help.


And they need to include a pony with every purchase.

Reply Score: 4

RE
by Moulinneuf on Fri 25th May 2007 20:21 UTC in reply to "RE"
Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

OS and Software Strategy 101 :

Thats how DOS got to win the clone market ... Being default OS and available in every clone box.

That's how Symantec got to the size they are now people assume that because the hardware vendor include it on there computer its the best Security solution for there hardware.

"And they need to include a pony with every purchase"

I don't wonder why BEOS was a complete failure with comment like this ...

Reply Score: 1

RE
by StephenBeDoper on Sat 26th May 2007 00:40 UTC in reply to "RE"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Nonsensical verbiage and an infantile, non-sequitur cheapshot. Classy.

I would hope that you also "don't wonder" why your average comment score is 0.15.

Reply Score: 3

RE
by Moulinneuf on Sat 26th May 2007 02:36 UTC in reply to "RE"
Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

Cheap shot is two word BTW ... Its just an observation based on reality and your own comment , BEOS is a complete *commercial* failure , and you want a pony before asking that your failed OS be included in the retail box that get sold with windows , forbidding that they *use it* and like it as there primary OS. Of course *THAT* don't make sense for you.

Do I wonder why my average score is 0.15 , no I don't , and I frankly don't care or value it at all.

Reply Score: 0

RE
by StephenBeDoper on Sat 26th May 2007 04:46 UTC in reply to "RE"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Cheap shot is two word BTW ...


Wow. You can't even produce an error-free sentence when attempting to correct another poster's writing. You are consistent in your laughable-ineptitude, I will give you that.

Its just an observation based on reality and your own comment , BEOS is a complete *commercial* failure , and you want a pony before asking that your failed OS be included in the retail box that get sold with windows , forbidding that they *use it* and like it as there primary OS. Of course *THAT* don't make sense for you.


So your contention is that you *didn't* post an infantile non sequitur? And to prove your point, you've decided to... post more infantile non sequiturs? That's a interesting approach - not particularly effective, but definitely novel.

Do I wonder why my average score is 0.15 , no I don't , and I frankly don't care or value it at all.


A shame, otherwise you might realize that it's a pretty bad sign when even OSNews posters find you insufferably tiresome. This place sets a pretty low standard for debate and written communication, but you've managed to sink far, far below even those already-low standards. Bravo.

Reply Score: 0

v RE
by Moulinneuf on Sat 26th May 2007 06:46 UTC in reply to "RE"
RE
by Moulinneuf on Sat 26th May 2007 06:50 UTC in reply to "RE"
Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

I forgot to write that its going to be my last post in this thread and under this article , not that I mind you and your feeble insults at all , its just my time is more valuable doing something else.

Reply Score: 1

RE
by yak8998 on Sat 26th May 2007 05:13 UTC in reply to "RE"
yak8998 Member since:
2006-07-28

While you two are busy showing off your *excellent* rhetorical skills, try looking up the word "ad-hominem"

debate the issue, not who has the fancier vocabulary. no one cares. It sucks having to muck through garbage like this when trying to find the flaming actually related to the topic at hand

Reply Score: 2

RE
by Spellcheck on Sat 26th May 2007 05:23 UTC in reply to "RE"
Spellcheck Member since:
2007-01-20

"Your" is a posessive pronoun.
"You're" is the contraction for "you are."

Reply Score: 2

RE
by Googol on Sat 26th May 2007 11:44 UTC in reply to "RE"
Googol Member since:
2006-11-24

The Windows machines are guaranteed to sell, no question - the Linux ones?

Well, I'd say no more than 1% is not exactly an overly enthusiastic expection - but they only ship selected models, so lets see.

Reply Score: 1

v Still paying the tax nubs
by ssa2204 on Fri 25th May 2007 17:32 UTC
RE: Still paying the tax nubs
by Kroc on Fri 25th May 2007 17:34 UTC in reply to "Still paying the tax nubs"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

You could have made a point - but instead you wrapped it up in a troll.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Still paying the tax nubs
by cmost on Fri 25th May 2007 17:47 UTC in reply to "Still paying the tax nubs"
cmost Member since:
2006-07-16

Yeah, because I'm sure your grandma and John Q. Public will know exactly how to download an Ubuntu ISO, burn it, partition their new OS-free hard disk and then merrily install and configure their new Ubuntu machine. Are you kidding me? Most people are willing to pay a nominal fee for a computer that's ready to use, regardless of the OS choice. Those that aren't will choose to do what you've outlined.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Still paying the tax nubs
by PJBonoVox on Sat 26th May 2007 12:15 UTC in reply to "RE: Still paying the tax nubs"
PJBonoVox Member since:
2006-08-14

"Most people are willing to pay a nominal fee for a computer that's ready to use, regardless of the OS choice."

You don't know this since it's never been widely done. Don't presume your experiences are the same as everything else. If this Ubuntu thing causes a support issue for Dell they'll scrap the idea and the fanboys dream of Linux on desktops will probably be shelved for another 5 years.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Still paying the tax nubs
by melkor on Sun 27th May 2007 01:44 UTC in reply to "RE: Still paying the tax nubs"
melkor Member since:
2006-12-16

These same people would have the same problems installing Microsoft Windows. The reason why it isn't a problem with Windows based machines is because of the installation images that all of the major vendors use these days. If OEM vendors were to start doing image installation CD/DVDs for Linux, like they do with Windows, you wouldn't see any issues.

Of course, I get your point as well - people won't download and try Linux cos it's "too hard to install". What a load of baloney. Maybe for the average dumbass computer user, who really shouldn't be using a computer, it might be. But for many users, Linux installations are no harder than Microsoft Windows. The big sticker is formatting/partitioning, although that can catch people out when installing OEM versions of Windows.

As to burning an ISO, this is more due to the bad design of certain popular cd/dvd burning software packages, who make life harder than it should be to burn images (almost like they don't want you to). I'll even name the crappy burning software: Nero. It's amazing how it became so popular, since it has such a convoluted and poor UI.

Dave

Reply Score: 4

RE: Still paying the tax nubs
by melkor on Sun 27th May 2007 01:38 UTC in reply to "Still paying the tax nubs"
melkor Member since:
2006-12-16

Not sure why you were modded down, but you probably pissed off a lot of Ubuntu fanbois, a dangerous practice to engage in. I wish osnews.com readers would read the modding guidelines and act accordindly, instead of modding based on their own personal reasons.

In an open and transparent system, it would be easy to see who was modding down, and penalise those that consistently break the modding rules by removing the ability. With the modding hidden, it cannot be policed, and we see the system being abused. For what it's worth, I modded you up as there was nothing wrong with your post.

What I would like Dell to report, is what they pay for Windows, to the dollar. As to supporting Linux, what a load of crock. Dell doesn't support MS Windows - they simply support the hardware that's in their units. Nothing more and nothing less. If you have a MS Windows or Office problem, I guarantee that Dell will tell you to go talk to Microsoft. If that is the case, then they certainly don't need to support Linux either, since this would be above and beyond the 'cause of duty' that they even offer with Windows, which does help sell their units.

I certainly won't help support Dell, for several reasons:

1. They're buying the dirty deal Novell/Microsoft Suse coupons
2. Their hardware and build quality is atrocious (from my experience)
3. They chose Ubuntu which I simply think is overated and I do not like
4. They only sell to the US, stuff anyone else in the world.
5. I do not like to support US companies, for a variety of personal reasons.

Dave

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Still paying the tax nubs
by jwwf on Mon 28th May 2007 23:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Still paying the tax nubs"
jwwf Member since:
2006-01-19


5. I do not like to support US companies, for a variety of personal reasons.


Intel, AMD, Motorola, IBM, Sun...must be tough to find a processor then.

Reply Score: 1

Look also at other prices
by Arslinguistica on Fri 25th May 2007 17:33 UTC
Arslinguistica
Member since:
2007-05-25

If you look at the prices offered by System76, another consumer-oriented Linux system integrator, Dell's prices are not bad comparatively. Add to the the fact that Dell supports their systems and puts time into making sure the hardware is 100% Linux campatible. To me it's a pretty good value. I could certainly go build a system for less. But not that much less with the same hardware.

I love how the above poster thinks he knows how people are going to react. It's easy to be assumptive when you already have the ass part down. The "wise consumer" might run into problems with certain parts not having linux drivers, or possibly having Linux drivers but not knowing how to install them. Who are they gonna call for help? The manufacturer? Nope. The idea behind Dell+Ubuntu is that Dell puts systems together that are 100% linux compatible, and Canonical provides the tech support. I personally would not ever need tech support for Linux, as I tend to know either A) what I'm doing, or B) how to RTFM. But if Linux is ever going to get outside its techy niche and get more usage by general consumers, the two factors of compatabilty and support are key. That's why this is really big news for Linux.

Edited 2007-05-25 17:45

Reply Score: 5

RE: Look also at other prices
by Stock on Fri 25th May 2007 18:05 UTC in reply to "Look also at other prices"
Stock Member since:
2005-08-31

Before you get too excited, we don't know that Dell has made their machines 100% compatible. I would suspect there are a few things in there that will still cause glitches. Usually a few cheap components can totally screw up hibernation and other Linux "problem areas".

So I'll reserve judgement before assuming Dell will offer 100% compatibility. It's a hard thing to do, I know I do the testing for my company's Linux laptops that we sell. Remember it only takes one component without drivers to completely ruin a user experience. As for ensuring they're open source drivers, well Dell isn't exactly going to be leading the way there, are they?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Look also at other prices
by KenJackson on Fri 25th May 2007 18:28 UTC in reply to "RE: Look also at other prices"
KenJackson Member since:
2005-07-18

As for ensuring they're open source drivers, well Dell isn't exactly going to be leading the way there, are they?

Why not? In order to roll this out, Dell must have made a fairly big investment. They wouldn't do that if they didn't think they would sell enough to make it worth their while. And not many people will buy them if it's a bad experience.

I fully expect Dell to have a very positive influence on fixing rough spots in Linux compatibility.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Look also at other prices
by Stock on Fri 25th May 2007 19:23 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Look also at other prices"
Stock Member since:
2005-08-31

Sure I agree Dell will work to make sure things are compatible. My point was that they probably aren't 100% compatible, and in reference to the line of mine you quoted, that was regarding Open Source drivers. It's the Open Source part of the equation I don't see Dell putting a lot of weight behind.

I hope they do of course, but we'll see.

Reply Score: 1

DigitalAxis Member since:
2005-08-28

Well, in the interests of bringing something to the market as soon as possible, I can see why Dell would be concerned first and foremost with the existence of good-quality Linux drivers, and put off discussions of whether or not they're open source for another day.

So, it's concievably too early to say whether or not they care about Linux and/or Open Source, getting on the techie community's good side, or just a lower-cost way to sell boxes... Once they've got stuff shipping, then we should start to see.

Edited 2007-05-25 20:16

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Look also at other prices
by JoeBuck on Fri 25th May 2007 21:34 UTC in reply to "RE: Look also at other prices"
JoeBuck Member since:
2006-01-11

I have a Dell Inspiron 5100 laptop, running Fedora Core 6. Sleep and hibernate work fine, and Dell's advertising a very similar laptop with Ubuntu. I think it's reasonable to expect that the laptop just works.

It would be nice to see a review confirming that, but it is a reasonable expectation: Dell has full control over what they package, so either they picked components that work well with Ubuntu or they messed up.

Reply Score: 2

Flatland_Spider Member since:
2006-09-01

Before you get too excited, we don't know that Dell has made their machines 100% compatible.


I'm going to give Dell the benefit of the doubt on this one, and guess they don't want a bunch of unhappy customers creating bad press or a class action lawsuit.

They are trying to find a niche here, and companies don't takeover niches with half-hearted products. Dell is trying to make a comeback, and I doubt they would be sloppy about this.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Look also at other prices
by Jon Dough on Sat 26th May 2007 14:38 UTC in reply to "RE: Look also at other prices"
Jon Dough Member since:
2005-11-30

Usually a few cheap components can totally screw up hibernation and other Linux "problem areas".

Heck, I bought a Gateway with Vista Home Premium pre-installed, and it, too, has problems with hibernation and sleep.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Look also at other prices
by DigitalAxis on Fri 25th May 2007 20:23 UTC in reply to "Look also at other prices"
DigitalAxis Member since:
2005-08-28

For what it's worth, about a year ago my friend bought a laptop from Eurocom (an utterly mammoth beast of a laptop in both size and power), and if memory serves they actually took it back to replace a piece of hardware that wouldn't work with Ubuntu- I think it was a graphics card. Or maybe it was just broken but still vaguely usable in Windows, I don't remember. They don't sell computers with Linux (but will sell you a laptop without anything) but they seem to be aware of it.

Reply Score: 2

That's not bad, actually
by Fennec_Fox on Fri 25th May 2007 17:40 UTC
Fennec_Fox
Member since:
2006-10-30

I was expecting even less difference then $50, considering the OEM pricing for Windows, and cost to set up a support infrastructure (at least on the basic level) for Linux... That aside - there you go: a choice of OS from a major OEM. And that's a good thing :o)

Reply Score: 5

the whole world isn't the USA
by ozonehole on Fri 25th May 2007 17:44 UTC
ozonehole
Member since:
2006-01-07

Kudos to Dell for offering machines with Ubuntu rather than Windows. Time will tell if this business model holds up. However, why are they restricting it to the USA? If anything, Linux should do even better in Europe. And some markets in Asia are even more price sensitive, so anything that gets the cost down would be welcomed.

Reply Score: 5

RE: the whole world isn't the USA
by Almafeta on Fri 25th May 2007 17:57 UTC in reply to "the whole world isn't the USA"
Almafeta Member since:
2007-02-22

I'd say it's because Dell is an American company, and still does most of their business there.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: the whole world isn't the USA
by Kroc on Fri 25th May 2007 18:18 UTC in reply to "RE: the whole world isn't the USA"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Europe is a larger market, y'know.

The reality is basically that setting up Linux support infrastructure would be more expensive in Europe than America because of the wide gamut of Languages, standards, employment laws and so on.

Reply Score: 5

rainman Member since:
2007-05-22

But if Canonical does the tech support, would this really be an issue for Dell?

Reply Score: 2

RE: the whole world isn't the USA
by Maners on Fri 25th May 2007 18:04 UTC in reply to "the whole world isn't the USA"
Maners Member since:
2005-07-26

maybe it's because they *might* be preparing mp3/dvd etc enabled version for European market since there are no legal issues with distributing those codecs.

Reply Score: 4

Stock Member since:
2005-08-31

If only that were true. Sadly Europe isn't quite the common market many believe. There are some countries in Europe where distributing those codecs will still get you in hot water.

It's still illegal in the UK to rip a music CD you buy at the store and transfer it to an IPOD. The ONLY LEGAL method of getting popular music onto an MP3 player is buying it direct over the Internet, usually with DRM included. Even the transfer process to the MP3 player has been questioned as legal, so really you'd have to download direct to the player.

Anyone who is in Europe though and wants a Laptop guaranteed to work with Linux should check out http://www.linuxlaptops.eu

Reply Score: 2

rjamorim Member since:
2005-12-05

> since there are no legal issues with distributing those codecs

There are. MP3 and DVD patents are not considered software patents. European companies using these technologies have to pay license fees to the patent holders all the same.

Reply Score: 3

smitty Member since:
2005-10-13

Can't you buy all that stuff properly licensed from Fluendo, though? I wouldn't think they would charge a big distributor like Dell very much.

Reply Score: 4

DigitalAxis Member since:
2005-08-28

It might have something to do with Dell expecting Canonical to do all the software support.

Ubuntu doesn't ship with Fluendo codecs, so unless Canonical makes a special deal with Fluendo so they can offer a commerical package to Dell (which might not go over well with Shuttleworth's promise of 'one Ubuntu for all with no Professional or other special versions') we probably won't see it.

If future versions of Ubuntu come with the Linspire Click'n'Run store (whereby users would choose to install these things), we might see it that way.

Alternately, this is just Dell saving money.

Edited 2007-05-25 20:36

Reply Score: 3

That $50 is for crippled Vista (Home Basic).
by Sabon on Fri 25th May 2007 17:51 UTC
Sabon
Member since:
2005-07-06

From arstechnica - "This amount is not too far off from what a large OEM like Dell would pay for a volume discount for Windows Vista Home Basic (the regular OEM price is about $95)."

Keep in mind when you get Linux (or Mac OS X on Macs) there is no crippled version like you get with Windows.

MS said in a press release that "most people" are upgrading to higher versions of Vista. Of course they are. They want to actually be able to do things with their computers. So the MS tax is actually higher than $50.

Reply Score: 5

StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Exactly. Based on some of the more hysterical posts here, I get a definite impression that many of those commenting don't understand the concepts of volume pricing or OEM licenses.

Reply Score: 4

Not entirely correct
by JCooper on Fri 25th May 2007 18:03 UTC
JCooper
Member since:
2005-07-06

On top of the Dell purchase price *with* Windows you'd have to buy:

- an office suite
- a graphics editor
- security suite (antivirus, personal firewall, spam etc)

Having the above included with the Ubuntu version (I'm sure there are more applications I can't list off the top of my head), for a retail price less than the Windows version, shows the ultimate cost to the consumer as considerably more.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Not entirely correct
by Thom_Holwerda on Fri 25th May 2007 18:13 UTC in reply to "Not entirely correct"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

On top of the Dell purchase price *with* Windows you'd have to buy:

- an office suite
- a graphics editor
- security suite (antivirus, personal firewall, spam etc)


You do realise that the included versions of these applications in Ubuntu are available for Windows as well, right? OpenOffice and GIMP run on Windows too.

As for the security apps... Welcome to 2007. They are free (as in, money, and sometimes as in speech, as well).

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Not entirely correct
by Moulinneuf on Fri 25th May 2007 20:12 UTC in reply to "RE: Not entirely correct"
Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

"that the included versions of these applications in Ubuntu are available for Windows as well, right? "

Windows ship with the lattest OpenOffice and GIMP version on Dell hardware as default ? Thats great news !! Oh wait !! you mean that the software are also available on Windows , IF YOU KNOW THEY EXIST AND WHERE TO GET THEM AND HOW TO INSTALL THEM but are not included so that people buy Microsoft Office and other Image softwares ... Never mind that there support and security and funding and release are behind GNU/Linux ones ...

"Welcome to 2007. They are free"

Some are *gratis* , but those are not the one included on Dell as Default OOTB experience are they ? Where as GNU/linux does ...

Let me explain english 101 :

If It come with the machine its similar if you have to waist time searching for them , downloading them , installing them and testing if they don't corrupt or waist ressource it's not the same and is an additionnal cost.

hence :

"On top of the Dell purchase price *with* Windows you'd have to buy:"

Because they don't come included.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Not entirely correct
by google_ninja on Fri 25th May 2007 21:15 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Not entirely correct"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

Vista comes with a working firewall with a GUI frontend, Ubuntu comes with IPTables (of course), but you still need to download something like firestarter. Vista also comes with a malware detector that lets you know when system files are modified by third parties. Granted, linux doesnt need this anywhere NEAR as badly, but you need to buy a commercial product to get this functionality on linux. Last but not least, Vista ships with a modern (MAC based) security archetechture, which you only get in linux if you go with something made by redhat, or you are willing to go through the non-trivial process of getting SELinux up and running.

You are right with windows not coming with anywhere near as much OOTB free software as ubuntu, however when you claim that ubuntu ships with more comprehensive security tools I gotta call BS.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Not entirely correct
by anda_skoa on Fri 25th May 2007 21:28 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Not entirely correct"
anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

. Granted, linux doesnt need this anywhere NEAR as badly, but you need to buy a commercial product to get this functionality on linux


You mean like tripwire? Or Tiger?

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Not entirely correct
by google_ninja on Fri 25th May 2007 22:30 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Not entirely correct"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

Actually I did mean like tripwire (which is commercial). Read a writeup on it awhile back, very cool product. This is the first time I have ever heard of Tiger, and while incredably cool, wasnt really what I was talking about (its an audit tool).

All of these however are really geared towards enterprise use, its remarkably hard to find stuff more desktop/home user oriented. Like I said, there isnt exactly much of a need for it at the moment, so that is probably why (AFAIK), it doesnt exist.

What I am talking about is that any time an app modifies the registry, installs itself as a process, adds itself as a startup program, or does anything else suspicious, windows defender lets me know with a real pretty GUI that tells me what it is, what its trying to do, and asks if it should allow the change or not. The origional posters said that security functionality didnt ship with windows, and you either had to search for free stuff, or buy a commercial product. I was pointing out that vista ships with more user-oriented security stuff then any of the big three OSs.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Not entirely correct
by anda_skoa on Fri 25th May 2007 23:05 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Not entirely correct"
anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

Actually I did mean like tripwire (which is commercial)


It has commercial/proprietary options, but it is also available as Free Software

root@artemis ~ # apt-cache policy tripwire
tripwire:
Installed: (none)
Candidate: 2.3.1.2.0-11
Version table:
2.3.1.2.0-11 0
991 http://ftp.at.debian.org unstable/main Packages

As you can see it is even in Debian's "main" branch.
If the need arises to have an annoying popup interrupting one's workflow to "compete" with Windows defender, Ubuntu could easily add one.
I am pretty sure all of their users hope they don't

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Not entirely correct
by google_ninja on Sat 26th May 2007 04:56 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Not entirely correct"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

It has commercial/proprietary options, but it is also available as Free Software


Well, I stand corrected. In my defense, there is nothing on the site that even mentions the GPL, and the only options they give you is to purchase or evaluate.

As you can see it is even in Debian's "main" branch.
If the need arises to have an annoying popup interrupting one's workflow to "compete" with Windows defender, Ubuntu could easily add one.
I am pretty sure all of their users hope they don't


First off, its not exactly the same kind of product, it is a similar one. Secondly, a small box that pops up in the corner and waits for your attention doesnt interupt your workflow.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Not entirely correct
by SEJeff on Fri 25th May 2007 23:34 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Not entirely correct"
SEJeff Member since:
2005-11-05

Actually, tripwire is a piece of crap from my experience using it. Take a look at samhain, it is a much better tool than tripwire and it is totally open source.

Granted, the last time I used tripwire was several years ago when it was a cronjob that ran ever so often and the company wanted commercial support for it. It was laughable. Samhain is a small little daemon that monitors files in realtime and sends out alerts when thigs change. Mix that with a central yule server or syslog-ng server, and you have a pretty decent setup.

Reply Score: 4

RE[7]: Not entirely correct
by google_ninja on Sat 26th May 2007 05:03 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Not entirely correct"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

Thanks for the info. As I mentioned, I only know about tripwire because of a writeup I read on it awhile back. Does it give any noticable performance hit? I have a friend who is in charge of a small deployment for a local internet cafe. I already sold him on KDE with Kiosk, but this would just be the icing on the cake, as long as it doesnt slow down lower end machines too much.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Not entirely correct
by Moulinneuf on Fri 25th May 2007 22:32 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Not entirely correct"
Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

"Vista comes with a working firewall"

- "Vista firewall easily tricked, says Symantec."

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleB...

- "Webroot Discovers Potential Weaknesses in Vista Malware Protection"

http://www.itsecurity.com/press-releases/press-release-webroot-vist...

"but you need to buy a commercial product to get this functionality on linux."

Nope. Just look up All the security tools available by default.

"Vista ships with a modern (MAC based) security archetechture"

Ubuntu ships with GNU/Linux security architecture , its better.

"which you only get in linux if you go with something made by redhat,"

Someone need to have Free Software and Open Source explained to them , if its in Red Hat chances are that its in all other GNU/Linux distribution.

"when you claim that ubuntu ships with more comprehensive security tools I gotta call BS."

1) I don't make claim.
2) If you think that 2 or 10 software that Microsoft copied/borrowed from GNU/Linux and included in VISTA will make it better then GNU/Linux in security you have been seriously mistaken.
3) Anything Microsoft regarding security is a big JOKE.
4) Yes , Ubuntu ship more comprehensive security tools by default then windows vista. by number , by quality , by default.

Vista is improvement compared to XP , but its no way near as secure or coming with the security tool available by default on all GNU/Linux distribution.

Reply Score: 0

RE[5]: Not entirely correct
by google_ninja on Fri 25th May 2007 22:54 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Not entirely correct"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

- "Vista firewall easily tricked, says Symantec."


...its not like symantec makes money selling a competing product or anything like that.

Webroot Software, Inc. is the creator and publisher of the award-winning Spy Sweeper line of anti-Spyware products for consumers, small businesses and enterprises worldwide.


Again, webroot isnt exactly non-biased in its critiques. If you can discount findings by friggin Gartner and IDC saying linux has a lower TCO then windows, then this stuff can't really hold water.

Nope. Just look up All the security tools available by default.


I use feisty, and all I got by default was IPTables.

Ubuntu ships with GNU/Linux security architecture , its better.


No, its not. Its better then XP, which had no security archechture, but its not as good as Vista, which is MAC based and uses ACLs instead of ugo. SELinux is the equivilent, but adoption has been very slow in desktop distros due to the lack of a need of something that hardcore, and the tradition system being Good Enough. Ubuntu is slowly moving in that direction, but wont be shipping with SELinux for another 2-3 versions.

If you don't believe me that kernel level manditory access control is the way of the future, see what the NSA has to say about it here
http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/info/faq.cfm

Someone need to have Free Software and Open Source explained to them , if its in Red Hat chances are that its in all other GNU/Linux distribution.


I have been using linux since distros consisted of a handful of floppies and a photocopied manual :-P

What I meant by that is redhat is the exception when it comes to SELinux adoption, since they focus on enterprise workstations and go for all the fancy certifications. Fedora, by extension, has it too, as it is the RH testing ground. Fedora uses a "targetted" policy which doesnt interfere with user processes, which is probably the way to go until the rest of the Linux world catches up.

1) I don't make claim.


I apologize, I got the wrong idea from what you wrote.

2) If you think that 2 or 10 software that Microsoft copied/borrowed from GNU/Linux and included in VISTA will make it better then GNU/Linux in security you have been seriously mistaken.
3) Anything Microsoft regarding security is a big JOKE.


I'll take both of these at the same time, since they are real similar. XP was a joke when it comes to security when it shipped, as was every previous version of windows, all of the mac classic line, and beos. One of the big reasons Vista took so long to ship was because of when MS dropped everything to do a massive security audit of their code, which shipped in SP2. This cleared up most of the big stuff, and new testing processes were put in place during the 2003 development, which resulted in a system with a hell of alot less holes then is traditional in MS products. On vista, they really kicked it up a notch with DEP (the SELinux equivilent), PatchGuard to watch for rootkits, and the beefed up security suite that ships with the OS.

If you look at MS pre XP SP2, their security record was attrocious. But they have been really taking it alot more seriously since then, and now with vista they are actually ahead of the competition, which is where they need to be as they are by far the biggest target. When you say anything they do is a joke, you are judging them on something they havnt been doing that bad a job on in the last few years.

4) Yes , Ubuntu ship more comprehensive security tools by default then windows vista. by number , by quality , by default.


Again, which tools are you referring to? I have IPTables, and thats about it. Not only that, it would be virtually invisible to the home user, as it isnt something they will really stumble accross easily by themselves.

Reply Score: 4

RE[6]: Not entirely correct
by ubit on Sat 26th May 2007 04:03 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Not entirely correct"
ubit Member since:
2006-09-08

Ubuntu doesn't ship with any open ports.

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: Not entirely correct
by google_ninja on Sat 26th May 2007 05:05 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Not entirely correct"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

AFAIK, windows hasnt either since XP SP2

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Not entirely correct
by thabrain on Fri 25th May 2007 21:54 UTC in reply to "RE: Not entirely correct"
thabrain Member since:
2005-06-29

It is fair to say that most initial purchases will be made by experienced Linux users, so they will know about options like OpenOffice and GIMP.

However, on a strictly comparison basis, if the average user were buying this system, the Windows system would be significantly more expensive.

Office
Photoshop or comparable product
Security software
Upgraded OS (in the case of Vista)

It makes the Ubuntu machine look more cost effective.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Not entirely correct
by Lu-Tze on Fri 25th May 2007 18:15 UTC in reply to "Not entirely correct"
Lu-Tze Member since:
2006-01-10

But that's not really a fair point. If you are happy with Oo.o, GIMP and any free antivirus (or anti-whatever), you can do that on windows as well. On the other hand if you NEED Photoshop or MS Office, the options in Linux is fairly complicated. Unless, you meant that, with Windows, you would still have to download and install the softwares.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Not entirely correct
by Almafeta on Fri 25th May 2007 18:23 UTC in reply to "Not entirely correct"
Almafeta Member since:
2007-02-22

Not necessarially buy... There's free software for Windows, too. In fact, pretty much every significant piece of Linux software has been ported to Windows, if not actually developed for both systems at once.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Not entirely correct
by Orgen on Sat 26th May 2007 17:48 UTC in reply to "RE: Not entirely correct"
Orgen Member since:
2005-07-11

Really? How about desktop search software like Tracker o Beagle? And Amarok, Exaile, K3B, Geany, etc.?

The fact is there's a lot of great linux software that Windows users doesn't about it.

Reply Score: 3

Hope they can wait
by bolomkxxviii on Fri 25th May 2007 18:11 UTC
bolomkxxviii
Member since:
2006-05-19

I plan on buying a new computer before the end of the year. It has been a really long time since I bought a complete computer, I usually build my own. Dell will be savings me the effort this time. If they are still offering Linux boxes in November I will be buying one. Does anyone know if Dell supplies a Ubuntu restore disc or a driver disc?

Reply Score: 5

RE: Hope they can wait
by aent on Fri 25th May 2007 19:28 UTC in reply to "Hope they can wait"
aent Member since:
2006-01-25

All drivers are included on the Ubuntu disk, although some may be proprietary and may need to be enabled using the restricted drivers managers. I'm not sure if the disk is thrown in the box, but you can get one for free from shipit.ubuntu.com

Reply Score: 2

Where are they?
by Maners on Fri 25th May 2007 18:11 UTC
Maners
Member since:
2005-07-26

It's hard to find these products on their website. If I didn't know that I'm looking for Ubuntu and entered it in the search box I wouldn't even know this option exists :-( In contrast, there are plenty of banners advertising Vista and XP on the front page. Why there are no such banners for Ubuntu?

Reply Score: 5

RE: Where are they?
by Dubbayoo on Fri 25th May 2007 18:16 UTC in reply to "Where are they?"
Dubbayoo Member since:
2006-02-09

I can't find them either, even under Open Source Desktops.

Anyway, I think I'd be more inclined to buy a Windows PC with Dell-certified Linux-compatible hardware than to buy it with Linux already pre-installed. I found when I priced the Optiplex I just bought it was more expensive with no OS/FreeDOS than it was with Windows XP, because of the discounts.

Edited 2007-05-25 18:21

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Where are they?
by Lu-Tze on Fri 25th May 2007 18:28 UTC in reply to "RE: Where are they?"
Lu-Tze Member since:
2006-01-10

It is a little funny. The Open Source Desktops cater to Businesses (especially servers), and they have stuck these Ubuntu machines under "Home and Home Office". Of course, the webpage says "for advanced users and tech enthusiasts"...whatever...
So I guess they are aiming these for advanced users at home and not in the a big company or some such logic.
Anyway, the link is here -
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&cs=19&...
In case you need to find it later google for dell and open and it's the first link.
Also, I guess they are not advertising this on their front page because they don't want a bunch of dissatisfied customers who were just looking for a cheap Windows machine. But I DO hate the fact that all the customization screens have "Dell recommends Vista Home Premium" on the top. I guess they get a discount on Windows for writing that so can't bitch too much about that. :-)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Where are they?
by holywood on Fri 25th May 2007 19:33 UTC in reply to "Where are they?"
holywood Member since:
2006-09-25

Why not a « Looking for Ubuntu Linux ? » like their « Still looking for Windows XP ? ».

People who don't know what is Ubuntu wouldn't click on it and those who want it would click ;)

On that page -
http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/notebooks?c=us&c...

Reply Score: 3

RE: Where are they?
by JBatDell on Thu 31st May 2007 22:53 UTC in reply to "Where are they?"
JBatDell Member since:
2007-05-31

If you go to www.dell.com/ubuntu, www.dell.com/linux or www.dell.com/open. I just pulled up the www.dell.com homepage and there is an Ubuntu banner at the top of the page that is cycling.

Reply Score: 1

Dell, where's the Linux ads?
by The_Ace on Fri 25th May 2007 18:34 UTC
The_Ace
Member since:
2006-02-23

It's all good that Dell has started to ship systems with Ubuntu preloaded. Still, to even see a hint that Dell ships systems that don't contain Windows, you need to enter the Desktop or Notebook menu entries, select Open-Source PCs and click the shop for Ubuntu button.
Not a single ad on the main screen indicates that an option but Windows Vista/XP exists.

Now tell me, exactly how many will buy a linux system when they aren't even informed that such an offer exist?

Is it to much to ask to add Linux as an option next to the XP/Vista when you are configuring your machine?

Reply Score: 5

RE: Dell, where's the Linux ads?
by diskinetic on Fri 25th May 2007 18:52 UTC in reply to "Dell, where's the Linux ads?"
diskinetic Member since:
2005-12-09

Yeah, c'mon, Dell! You offer pre-installed Linux at an attractive price point for interested parties since yesterday...

but what have you done for us lately? ;)

Reply Score: 4

RE: Dell, where's the Linux ads?
by stare on Fri 25th May 2007 18:57 UTC in reply to "Dell, where's the Linux ads?"
stare Member since:
2005-07-06

Not a single ad on the main screen indicates that an option but Windows Vista/XP exists.

More to say, when you shop for Ubuntu notebook there is a big "Dell recommends Windows Vista™ Home Premium" label on top of the page ;-)

Reply Score: 4

The_Ace Member since:
2006-02-23

Actually I made a mistake. If you refresh the Dell intro page long enough, a Ubuntu ad comes up. It's not that common though.

Reply Score: 5

dagw Member since:
2005-07-06

I did a quick experiment. I visited dell.com three times within the last hour. First time it took me 2 refreshes to get the Ubuntu add, second time 4 and third time it came up first. It seem to be one of maybe 5 adds, so it should come up first 20% of the time.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Dell, where's the Linux ads?
by tomcat on Fri 25th May 2007 23:24 UTC in reply to "Dell, where's the Linux ads?"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Now tell me, exactly how many will buy a linux system when they aren't even informed that such an offer exist?

The Linux community asked Dell to make the option available. Maybe they should have asked to make it a mainstream offering. As it stands, I'd hazard a guess that very few people are actually going to buy the thing.

Reply Score: 0

diskinetic Member since:
2005-12-09

I'll hazard the other guess and say that quite a few people will buy the "thing".

Reply Score: 2

butters Member since:
2005-07-08

How many people need to buy these PCs in order to make a lasting impact on the OEM industry? I think that if Dell can move 2,000 units per month over the second half of 2007, just in the U.S., then other hardware and software vendors will take notice. I believe that this is very reasonable, and given the nice $50 discount, this might be a low-ball estimate of how well they'll sell.

It really doesn't matter if people buy them and choose to run some other OS, whether it be Fedora, NetBSD, OpenSolaris, Haiku, or even Windows (Genuine, of course). Buying these machine is a vote for choice as much as it is a vote for Ubuntu, Linux, free software, or alternative operating systems. Being as most OSNews readers identify with at least one of these causes, we should take this rare chance to vote with our wallets. Dell sells reasonable hardware at a good price, and now they let us show our support for freedom and choice by taking them up on their $50 discount. If you're in the market for a new computer in the coming months, why not?

BTW, I refreshed the dell.com frontpage once and saw a nice, big banner that read "By Popular Demand. Ubuntu has Arrived." Click on the banner to get a well-done explanation of what open source is all about, and who may or may not be interested. The three available models each appear to be quite customizable like any other Dell model. It seems like you can order premium software support services from Canonical directly from the Dell site, but it doesn't give a detailed explanation of the 3 offerings. The site design for purchasing the Ubuntu PCs is done as well as I could have expected.

Reply Score: 4

rklrkl Member since:
2005-07-06

Maybe they're showing that "Ubuntu has arrived" banner about once every 100 home page loads, because I sure didn't see it. If you just to go "Home & Home Office" (no mention on that page) and then "Notebooks" (no mention) or "Desktops" (no mention) [or even go into any of the individual model pages - no mention], then you'd have absolutely zero idea that Dell are selling Ubuntu pre-installed.

It seems the only way to find out is to Google for it and discover the "hidden URL" http://www.dell.com/open - this is a recipe for failure, IMHO. How is anyone supposed to find these Ubuntu machines?! Dell are hiding this totally deliberately, IMHO, because they're worried clueless newbies will buy it and whinge they can't play their Windows games on it.

They did exactly the same thing with their last Linux attempt (annoyingly separate "n" models, not visible in the normal sections of the site) - this new effort is going to go the same way of the dodo if they don't start being more "obvious" about it....

Reply Score: 2

tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

It really doesn't matter if people buy them and choose to run some other OS, whether it be Fedora, NetBSD, OpenSolaris, Haiku, or even Windows (Genuine, of course). Buying these machine is a vote for choice as much as it is a vote for Ubuntu, Linux, free software, or alternative operating systems.

Whoa, wake up, chief. This isn't fantasyland. Dell is either going to make a profit from this little venture -- or they're going to can it. It's not about choice. It's about corporate profit.

Reply Score: 1

Configuration differences
by stare on Fri 25th May 2007 18:50 UTC
stare
Member since:
2005-07-06

Not sure about desktop, but "similary" configured Ubuntu E1505 is $649, and it still has integrated Intel GMA950 video while $699 Windows-based E1505 has 256Mb ATI X1400, (which, according to Dell site, cost additional $99). So E1505 with Vista is a better deal.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Configuration differences
by revmb on Fri 25th May 2007 20:05 UTC in reply to "Configuration differences"
revmb Member since:
2006-09-24

This is what always happens. I've looked for 2 years for a laptop that would be cheaper using free software and have the same specs. I haven't found it yet.

Free software somehow doesn't make for a cheaper PC.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Configuration differences
by Stock on Fri 25th May 2007 22:35 UTC in reply to "RE: Configuration differences"
Stock Member since:
2005-08-31

I'll bite.

That's because the software isn't the only cost that goes into getting a laptop to your door.

Do you expect an Apple Mac to be cheaper? No, but you can't put a price point on OSX, so why don't you assume it should be cheaper than Windows?

Dell have done a Good Thing(tm) here, my personal opinion is that it doesn't have the backing from Dell that it needs to be sustainable, but time will tell.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Configuration differences
by ubit on Sat 26th May 2007 04:06 UTC in reply to "Configuration differences"
ubit Member since:
2006-09-08

E1505 has 256Mb ATI X1400, (which, according to Dell site, cost additional $99). So E1505 with Vista is a better deal.


No, you **DO NOT** want ATI cards in Linux. It's a good thing they are using Intel

What you get with an ATI card in Linux:

1) you get kicked to a black screen on bootup, because distributions cannot bundle proprietary drivers. So the end user must type sudo apt-get install xorg-ati-whatever, make depends, etc..

2) crashes

3) crahses when switching from virtual terminal to X

4) suspend/hibernate problems

5) possible security issue

6) underdeveloped driver

7) no AIGLX (bye bye compiz and beryl)

8) no Xvmc

Crappiest drivers ever.

Edited 2007-05-26 04:07

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Configuration differences
by smitty on Sat 26th May 2007 04:23 UTC in reply to "RE: Configuration differences"
smitty Member since:
2005-10-13

It's worth noting that most of those issues are only valid with the newer X1xxx+ cards. If you get an older one like the X300-800 series things work pretty well OOTB with open source drivers. Of course, at that point you may as well just go with the cheaper Intel chip since performance isn't much better...

Reply Score: 2

Flatland_Spider Member since:
2006-09-01

There is a work around. PC-BSD work out of the box with newer ATI drivers. I'm not sure how they do it, but get them to work.

I'm not saying that the performance doesn't make me want to shoot myself in the head to get the pain to stop, but it does work well enough that the OS should boot and end users should be able to download the correct drivers.

But yeah, until AMD releases their open source drivers the best option is to use Intel or Nvidia.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Configuration differences
by archiesteel on Sat 26th May 2007 21:00 UTC in reply to "RE: Configuration differences"
archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

Well, that's not quite accurate. It really depends on the actual chipset. Here I have a Xpress 200M chipset, and here's the experience:

1) you don't get a black screen on bootup, because the ati free driver works well for 2D; installing the proprietary hardware is a bit more of a pain than, say, for a Nvidia card, but there is a good howto here:

http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Ubuntu_Feisty_Installation_Guide

2) The fglrx driver is much more stable than it used to be

3) The fglrx driver no longer crahses when switching from virtual terminal to X (this bug was solved recently)

4) Suspend/hibernate now works reasonably well, though you need to tweak parameters in /etc/default/acpi-support...

5) I'm not aware of possible security issues, nor to the current security status

6) The driver's performance is *acceptable*...there's room for improvement, definitely

7) No AIGLX, but you can still have Compiz/Beryl using Xgl...it's a bit more of a hassle, but the performance is good (that's what I have right now on my Kubuntu laptop)

8) No Xvmc, unfortunately

So, while it is still far from perfect, it's not *quite* as bad as you make it to be. Certainly, for high-performance 3D graphics, going with Nvidia is the preferred choice.

Reply Score: 2

Price
by acobar on Fri 25th May 2007 20:12 UTC
acobar
Member since:
2005-11-15

Actually, if they deliver a working system with good support it is going to be a bargain for people that don't know that much about linux.

Just think about:
- less US$ 50 on the price;
- plus a free office suite;
- plus free database servers;
- plus a free bitmap image editing software (gimp);
- plus free graphics image editing software (inkscape);
- more lots of "pluses".

Some can argue that the office suite is not on par with its concurrents (same can be said about image editing), but for most of the people, for sure, they are.

Now, its all up to their own and the comunity support.

Microsoft, watch out, this pack is a steal you can beat by now!

Forgot to say, a system update engine that works great!

Edited 2007-05-25 20:16

Reply Score: 4

50 dollar?
by aliquis on Fri 25th May 2007 20:48 UTC
aliquis
Member since:
2005-07-23

Nothing says they install and setup the Ubuntu version for free either, so nothing says that the Windows "tax" is 50 dollar, maybe it's 100 but they take 50 for the work of supporting linux aswell.

Reply Score: 2

RE: 50 dollar?
by Flatland_Spider on Sat 26th May 2007 05:26 UTC in reply to "50 dollar?"
Flatland_Spider Member since:
2006-09-01

I was thinking that Canonical is getting a cut of this, but after looking at the prices I'm not quite sure where the money is going.

E520 or E520n
Core 2 Duo Processor 1.8GHz, 800 FSB

XP/FreeDos (in the box) and Vista/Ubuntu:
$869.00/$829.00/$749.00

The Dimension E520 or E520n Core 2 Duo 1.8GHz, 800 FSB under the small business section has different prices too.

FreeDOS (in the box)/Windows XP Home Edition or Vista Home Basic:
$549/$629

It's confusing, and Dell doesn't break down what everything costs.

Reply Score: 1

acceleration of the port of apps?
by drkwolf on Fri 25th May 2007 21:03 UTC
drkwolf
Member since:
2007-05-18

i hope that the major software makers will start porting their app to Linux. how many will switch if say Adobe/Marcomedia port all their apps too ? i think a lot!

Reply Score: 3

Figured I should....
by watchingeyes on Sat 26th May 2007 00:12 UTC
watchingeyes
Member since:
2007-05-04

I figured I should come on here and admit I was wrong. I fully expected this to be like every other time where it would end up costing more. (Read my comments from prior Dell/Ubuntu articles). My bad!

Reply Score: 1

Whining
by smitty on Sat 26th May 2007 02:54 UTC
smitty
Member since:
2005-10-13

Reading the comments, there seems to a lot of complaining about how Dell isn't doing things right, or not going far enough. Well, tough!

What Dell has done is a huge step in the right direction, and they should be applauded for it. No one is going to get everything right immediately. So give them some time and hopefully they'll start making their Linux offerings more mainstream.

In the meantime, butters is right. This is a great opportunity to vote with our wallets and prove that selling Linux computers is actually viable. If everyone just complains, the other OEM's will laugh at how stupid Dell was to think we would buy Linux and another chance like this might not come for another 10 years. If you're going to use an alternative OS, then why not get the computer from Dell? The prices and hardware actually seem pretty reasonable, even if they don't have everything.

Edited 2007-05-26 02:55

Reply Score: 5

CNR will maybe make it even better.
by revmb on Sat 26th May 2007 03:18 UTC
revmb
Member since:
2006-09-24

Linspire has a good thing I think with it's CNR warehouse. It is supposed to be opened up in 2nd QTR 2007. "That would be like now". They have said it will usuable by Ubuntu as well as other linuxes. If memory serves correct Microsoft codecs and others are legally available to CNR gold members as well as some other nice software.

What are your thoughts?

Reply Score: 2

$50 aint alot! buy windows for the license
by cylent on Sat 26th May 2007 10:13 UTC
cylent
Member since:
2007-04-26

$50 aint alot! might as well buy a windows bundled pc if i were to buy anything from Dell. That way i'll have a copy of windows and i can install ubuntu for free.

Reply Score: 1

archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

Yes, but then again you get Vista Home Basic...not exactly a bargain, if you ask me.

Reply Score: 3

h3rman Member since:
2006-08-09

Yes, but then again you get Vista Home Basic...not exactly a bargain, if you ask me.


Given the advanced nature of Vista, can't you just sudo winapt-winget install aero and you'll end up with Premium? ;) ;)

Reply Score: 3

Erm...
by PJBonoVox on Sat 26th May 2007 12:13 UTC
PJBonoVox
Member since:
2006-08-14

Not trying to troll, but does anyone else thing that people will be buying these boxes to put Windows on?

$50 off the cost, pirate copy of Windows...

Edited 2007-05-26 12:16

Reply Score: 1

RE: Erm...
by lord_rob on Sat 26th May 2007 16:24 UTC in reply to "Erm..."
lord_rob Member since:
2005-08-06

Save $50 and run into many problems caused by the anti piracy schemes that are more likely to happen on pirated versions of Windows than on original copies ? I don't think so ...

Maybe people who buy a PC preloaded with Ubuntu will end with a pirated Windows but in this case that was not their initial intention IMHO.

Reply Score: 2

possibly the most important information
by vege on Sat 26th May 2007 16:55 UTC
vege
Member since:
2006-04-07

for the Linux-related development industry (investments, popularity evolution etc) are probably holding their breaths to know the real numbers of the sales after like a month.

It will be a good clue for the where-we-are meetings at Linux company boards, I guess. If only these numbers will be public, of course.

Reply Score: 1

RE:Dell Goes Ubuntu
by TusharG on Sat 26th May 2007 18:17 UTC
TusharG
Member since:
2005-07-06

Unfortunately I have got my new HP notebook few months back. By the time i buy new one if I dont see other brands selling Linux pre installed. I'm definitely going to buy Dell notebook next time. I don't want to pay a penny to Microsoft next time [which i have paid via HP notbook]
Dell I'm glad for your move and I'm your next customer for sure.

Reply Score: 2

is it worth it?
by roger64 on Sun 27th May 2007 09:29 UTC
roger64
Member since:
2006-08-15

Well, i still don't know. We have a figure: when you compare with the same model including a windows OEM, the Ubuntu one is 50 dollars cheaper.

But..wait, which of the six possible windows? If you compare to the basic one, well, 50 dollars, it seems fair. If you compare with others versions of windows, it is not.

This information is missing. It is an important one, at least for me.

Reply Score: 1

It's Peripherals, Stupid!
by rakamaka on Sun 27th May 2007 16:35 UTC
rakamaka
Member since:
2005-08-12

i read all 99 posts. no one from geek community has assured me that my logitech camera, scanner, canon digicam, lexmark printer etc etc will work on this new toy. no one know where to get drivers for these peripherals...at least joe buyer will say, i will pay $50 more but i know whatever peripheral i buy, it will work with cd it comes with.
what is the use of saving $50, if you can't usenew shiny $300 camera with this toy.
what is microsoft ask dell to reduce prices of laptop by $50 to have XP preinstalled (instead of vista) essentially free.......ubuntu will be out of business very next moment.....

Reply Score: 0

RE: It's Peripherals, Stupid!
by Supreme Dragon on Sun 27th May 2007 17:24 UTC in reply to "It's Peripherals, Stupid!"
Supreme Dragon Member since:
2007-03-04

People should buy peripherals that can be used on Linux, peripherals that do not support Linux should be avoided and considered defective. People should not be forced to buy crap like Vista from a software tyranny every time they buy a computer. GIVE PEOPLE A CHOICE!

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: It's Peripherals, Stupid!
by dagw on Tue 29th May 2007 12:41 UTC in reply to "RE: It's Peripherals, Stupid!"
dagw Member since:
2005-07-06

What about people wanting to switch from Windows to Linux? Is it their fault that they didn't check if that scanner they bought 18 month (when they weren't even considering Linux) would work on Linux? Telling people they have to buy a new printer, webcam and scanner when they switch to Linux isn't a great selling point. Being told it's their own fault for buying 'defective' hardware (despite the fact that it works perfectly under windows) is even less of a selling point.

Reply Score: 2

Supreme Dragon Member since:
2007-03-04

Linux has better hardware and peripheral support than Vista. People deserve a choice, if a peripheral does not give people that choice, it should be avoided. This Windows only crap needs to stop, people should not be forced to pay a software tyranny, every time they buy a computer.

Reply Score: 1

Radek
Member since:
2007-05-08

..you get a guarantee everything will work?

You DON'T (read EULA to realize you don't get ANY guarantees).

And your shiny "$300" camera is a toy in the very first place - half year from now it will be worth 150$ perhaps?

It's harsh but with Linux at least I can know which hardware will be always supported as there are available sources for drivers (read - it can be recompiled for new kernels, new hardware, new anything).

Reply Score: 3

sheeples logic
by happycamper on Tue 29th May 2007 08:34 UTC
happycamper
Member since:
2006-01-01

"Ubuntu Linux is now available on the XPS 410n high-end desktop system at $849 (compared with $899 for the same machine with Windows installed)"


Mrs Sheeple: Look honey, dell is selling a desktop with ubuntu on it for $849

Mr. sheeple: what is ubuntu?,

Mrs.sheeple i don't know, oh wait here is one with windows for $899 that is only fifty bucks more,

Mr. sheeple: well lets get that instead, anyway the rest of the world is running windows, but i still wonder what is ubuntu,

Mrs sheeple: oh cares, windows is a well known brand like ford.

Reply Score: 1

RE: sheeples logic
by dagw on Tue 29th May 2007 12:54 UTC in reply to "sheeples logic"
dagw Member since:
2005-07-06

Do you have a point or do you just like using the word sheeple to make yourself feel superior? 'Mr Sheeple' isn't the intended target audience.

What's so wrong about buying the known and trusted brand over the unknown anyway. I know I do it all the time. I recently bought a tent and paid more than twice as much as the cheapest similar tents available to to get a brand I trusted. Those other tents may have been perfectly fine or even better than the tent I bought, but I certainly wasn't willing to take the risk.

Reply Score: 2

sheeples logic
by happycamper on Tue 29th May 2007 08:40 UTC
happycamper
Member since:
2006-01-01

"Ubuntu Linux is now available on the XPS 410n high-end desktop system at $849 (compared with $899 for the same machine with Windows installed)"

shoot,my commit got posted twice, so i will change this one.

i hope people sees the benefit of ubuntu.

Edited 2007-05-29 08:46

Reply Score: 1