Linked by Eugenia Loli on Wed 27th Jun 2007 17:26 UTC, submitted by liquidat
3D News, GL, DirectX On June 22nd Mesa 7.0 was released, featuring OpenGL 2.0 and 2.1 support among other features.
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nice
by poundsmack on Wed 27th Jun 2007 17:51 UTC
poundsmack
Member since:
2005-07-13

". Also, the free drivers now finally reach the proprietary drivers in terms of OpenGL support since the proprietary Linux drivers from AMD and Nvidia feature OpenGL 2.0 support for quite some time."

awsome news! great job guys keep up the good work.

Reply Score: 5

RE: nice
by predictor on Wed 27th Jun 2007 18:37 UTC in reply to "nice"
predictor Member since:
2006-11-30

I love this project. Keep it coming!

Reply Score: 3

...
by Hiev on Wed 27th Jun 2007 18:52 UTC
Hiev
Member since:
2005-09-27

Can someone explain what exactly MESA is please?

Reply Score: 1

RE: ...
by miscz on Wed 27th Jun 2007 18:55 UTC in reply to "..."
miscz Member since:
2005-07-17
RE: ...
by tonestone57 on Wed 27th Jun 2007 19:46 UTC in reply to "..."
tonestone57 Member since:
2005-12-31

From MESA 3D site:
"Mesa is an open-source implementation of the OpenGL specification - a system for rendering interactive 3D graphics.

A variety of device drivers allows Mesa to be used in many different environments ranging from software emulation to complete hardware acceleration for modern GPUs."


1) Mesa is just another version of OpenGL but open source and multi platform ( its advantages ).
2) ( Authentic ) OpenGL belongs to and developed by Silicon Graphics ( & closed source? ).

I've used Mesa 3D OpenGL in BeOS ( software rendering - slow ). It is supposed to work with hardware acceleration too ( on Windows & Linux ) but I've never tried it.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: ...
by predictor on Wed 27th Jun 2007 21:23 UTC in reply to "RE: ..."
predictor Member since:
2006-11-30

"I've used Mesa 3D OpenGL in BeOS ( software rendering - slow )."

Yeah, they use the same insanely slow approach in Haiku. Basically useless.

I've tried the Linux x port with nvid accelearation, and it is very impressive.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: ...
by jonas.kirilla on Wed 27th Jun 2007 21:53 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: ..."
jonas.kirilla Member since:
2005-07-11

MESA is an API that lets you use the full of OpenGL, with or without actual hardware to accelerate it. If there is hardware that supports a certain OpenGL feature (or whatever the right term is) that feature will hardware-accelerated, else it will be done in software. There's no insanely slow "Haiku approach", as you put it. You simply need to couple MESA with *actual 3D-capable drivers* to have feature-complete, hardware-accelerated 3D. MESA is a good start, but it's only part of the puzzle.

If have you have an actual desire for 3D in Haiku, as opposed to merely complaining about it, support a vendor that is friendly to open-source driver development (i.e. not nvidia) and help the Open Graphics Project.

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: ...
by tonestone57 on Wed 27th Jun 2007 22:25 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: ..."
tonestone57 Member since:
2005-12-31

Jonas is right with his comment.

Haiku is missing 3d drivers so can't use the hardware accelerated features of Mesa for the time being. This is because of the closed specs & missing info from graphic card manufacturers, Nvidia, ATI, etc.,

OpenGL software rendering will be slow no matter what OS is used. Mesa on BeOS/Haiku is only one part and the start of getting 3d onto this OS.

There is a basic *hardware* accelerated OpenGL driver for BeOS but works with older Geforce2 video cards and uses older Mesa. I used it in the past & worked well enough.

3d drivers for Haiku probably won't come around for 2+ years ( my guess ) though anything is possible and though I'd be surprised, it could happen even sooner. Remember, Linux didn't have hardware OpenGL in the beginning either. Takes time.

And back to Mesa. I'm happy to have one more OpenGL out there as it gives users freedom of choice ( SGI OpenGL or Mesa OpenGL ).

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: ...
by Kakihara on Thu 28th Jun 2007 08:57 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: ..."
Kakihara Member since:
2007-06-09

OpenGL software rendering will be slow no matter what OS is used.


Sure, but i remember playing quite advance directX 3D games with no hardware acceleration at all(old good win98 days), while with Mesa software rendering, games like xmoto or chromium(2d openGL) are unplayable on much faster CPU.
Is directX software rendering so MUCH faster than Mesa's, or am I missing something?

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: ...
by No it isnt on Thu 28th Jun 2007 11:33 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: ..."
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

That really depends on so many other factors that it's difficult to make a proper comparison. Let's just say that Mesa supports accelerated rendering on Linux through DRI, and it's more than fast enough to run Quake 3 in 1600x1200 and everything maxed out on a Radeon 9800 Pro. If you use Mesa unaccelerated over a remote X11 connection, it will be horribly slow. The speed really depends on the backend.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: ...
by umccullough on Wed 27th Jun 2007 22:43 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: ..."
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

Yeah, they use the same insanely slow approach in Haiku. Basically useless.

That's a somewhat-uninformed statement.

Mesa in Haiku is used as a baseline renderer - but has a hardware-acceleration plug-in architecture.

It's only waiting for drivers now... please let us know when your favorite hardware vendor is ready to support Haiku and/or someone is willing to port an already-OSS driver.

Reply Score: 5

gilboa
Member since:
2005-07-06

drivers upstream into the kernel, I won't have to build the MACH64 DRI driver (and patch the Mesa package) on my 10 y/o laptop everytime Fedora pushes a new Kernel/Mesa update...

- Gilboa

Reply Score: 2

Name Licensing
by SamuraiCrow on Thu 28th Jun 2007 03:53 UTC
SamuraiCrow
Member since:
2005-11-19

MesaGL is just an open-source version of OpenGL that doesn't pay naming royalties to the owners of the name "OpenGL".

Reply Score: 3

RE: Name Licensing
by lemur2 on Thu 28th Jun 2007 05:31 UTC in reply to "Name Licensing"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

MesaGL is just an open-source version of OpenGL that doesn't pay naming royalties to the owners of the name "OpenGL".


Mesa isn't named "MesaGL", it is named "Mesa".

Since Mesa is anmed "Mesa", and it is not named "OpenGL", then why should it pay naming royalties to something that it is not named after?

Finally, to call something "Open" as part of the name and then to charge royalties for it is, at the very least, being somewhat deceptive in the choice of name in the first place.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Name Licensing
by Lobotomik on Thu 28th Jun 2007 06:27 UTC in reply to "RE: Name Licensing"
Lobotomik Member since:
2006-01-03

And, the owners of the name "OpenGL" blessed the introduction of Mesa as an independent, free implementation of the OpenGL api. SGI's licensing conditions appear to be very generous, to say the least.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Name Licensing
by xxmf on Thu 28th Jun 2007 13:23 UTC in reply to "RE: Name Licensing"
xxmf Member since:
2006-06-15

"Finally, to call something "Open" as part of the name and then to charge royalties for it is, at the very least, being somewhat deceptive in the choice of name in the first place."

Not really. OGL is a pretty complex beast. For a long time there were half baked implementations and SGI quite rightly disallowed a half baked implementation to be called OpenGL.

The Open in this context doesn't mean OpenSource or free, it means an Open (Ie documented and transparent) API. In the context of 1992, this was pretty open - the expression open has subsequently evolved, but still lacks any formal definition....

I don't think licensing was a great revenue stream for SGI, and the have contributed -

http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/

IMHO.

Cheers!

Reply Score: 4