OSNews

The only problem I have with the way they're doing it is that they're only providing one distribution. Yes, this makes sense under one light, but under another why not give people what Linux is truly about and that is choice.

It is likely to give the unknowing an expectation that Linux is Ubuntu, which is certainly not the case.

For instance, many would argue that SUSE is definitely a better if not equal choice for this sort of offering.

or why not choose the best way and sell laptops without an OS, but known to not contain shitty hardware for which no specifications have been published, or code released?

They've been doing that for a long time.

How about an even better way. They pick laptops that contain compatible hardware, and then sell them with the one of the most popular desktop distros. Then, those who don't want that one can reformat it and put something else on there anyway, same as they would do with a blank laptop.

Or just pick the most popular one. Whether or not Ubuntu is your choice distribution or not is meaningless. The differences between SUSE and Ubuntu are negligible to end users and by standardizing dell makes it easier for customers and their own support staff.

Is it really that hard to install suse if you really want it? Give me a break...

Same here. I would have bought one from the US, but I really want my french canadian keyboard. It's not as if I *need* a new laptop just yet (nor an EeePC...then again..), but as soon as they're available in Canada I'm ordering one.

I wish Dell would apply the deep coupon-code discounts they have in cataloges and sales papers to the Ubuntu systems too, specifically the laptops (since I usually just build my own desktops). The coupon-code discounts plus $50 off for the Windows "tax" would make for some very tantalizingly low prices.

I saw a US$649 Core Duo(!) Dell laptop in the Sunday paper. It had a gig of RAM (upgradable to 2) and a 100 gig HD. Don't know which exact model, but it was an Inspiron. Grabbing that for $599, one can only dream.

The $150 more price is not a fluke.

Dell is able to sell the windows version cheaper because they are paid to load it up with every bit of crap sofware under the sun. Seriously. I got a Inspiron 1405 last year so that I would have a home computer capable of syncing to my eBook and it took me about 45 minutes to decruft it.

With Linux, there is no crappy spyware to put on it to subsidize the price. Hence that difference comes out of your pocket.

"""
Given the fact that Linux isn't big in Holland,
"""

Yeah, I've heard that before. It surprises me because I would have expected you guys to be at the forefront of Linux use.

Edited 2007-07-09 23:34

Yeah, I've heard that before. It surprises me because I would have expected you guys to be at the forefront of Linux use.

Or maybe the unpopularity of Linux in the US (relative to ROW) can be explained by a secret black market of Dutch dope to people like tomcat ;-)

Its almost a certaintity they will do something like that.

We have people boinging around on pogo sticks all hyped over Linux on Dell, when quite frankly, I definately wouldn't be seeing Dell as the 'trojan horse' for Linux on the desktop as a good thing, given their lack of direction at the moment.

For me, Dell is lashing around trying to find somethign to repair their terrible image problem. The low qualty of components, their price cutting at all costs, their lack of localised support in favour of a call centre people who barely understand English.

Now, this isn't some sort of 'bring the call centre home' but if you are going to outsource your call centre (I can understand the logic behind it) make sure that firstly the call centre staff have a high level understanding of English, secondly that they can make decisions themselves rather than sifting it through 100s of levels worth of beaucracy, and thirdly, allow them to speak with their native accent - goodness gracious me, I would sooner have a strong bangalore accent than someone trying to put on a fake 'western' accent (primarily American, which is irrating to listen to for long periods of time).

Now, this isn't some sort of 'bring the call centre home' but if you are going to outsource your call centre (I can understand the logic behind it) make sure that firstly the call centre staff have a high level understanding of English, secondly that they can make decisions themselves rather than sifting it through 100s of levels worth of beaucracy.

Then running the call centers overseas would cost just as much as running them domestically. ;p

I'm lucky the last time I needed to call support was four or five years ago, but it was enough to make up for support calls for a long time to come.

I had some off-brand laptop I bought from Tiger Direct. Big mistake. I had an external 56k modem then, and the laptop's serial port decided to just randomly die. It was nothing to do with drivers--it was physically dead, so I was forced to call support.

I actually got a lady on the other end after listening to repetitive music with bullshit "We care about you" interludes. Two hours later. No lie. And it was in the middle of the day, not peak hours or anything. I was kind of hoping since I got a female, she'd be easier to understand than some raspy-voiced gent. I was wrong: she was very hard-to-understand. As if needing a translator to understand her wasn't enough, her monotone voice (obviously reading from a screen or cue cards) was so annoying.

She repeatedly instructed me to use the driver CD, and I could not get her to understand that it was a physical hardware problem. When the driver CD didn't work after a few tries (complete with reboots), she started telling me how to reboot Windows 2000 into Safe Mode. I figured, hey, after this she'll realize it's the hardware or something. First of all, the CD drive didn't even work in safe mode, and we wasted 15+ minutes arguing about what the problem really was and her trying in vain to get the CD-ROM to work in safe mode.

Then, out of the blue, she started calling the serial port the "Joystick" port (inconsistent instructing materials, I suppose). It confused me, and I figured she thought I was needing to install joystick drivers or something, so I told her I did not have a joystick. She said I did and kind of half-giggled. Telling her I was a flaming homosexual would be out of the question, poor woman wouldn't know what it meant.

In the end, I got nothing out of her. I wound up calling Tiger Direct directly (like I should have done in the first place), explaining the problem, and getting a replacement.

Blah, that was offtopic. I don't think Dell's support is that bad. Hopefully.

Edited 2007-07-10 02:30

Maybe it took so long because they were trying to get everyone whose screens had failed to just load Windows XP in safe mode, already.

My experience with Dell's tech support hasn't been that bad. I've had to do silly things like verify the machine would not turn on, load a driver disk to verify the hard drive was dead, go into setup screen and WATCH the battery drop at 1% a second... but I think that's probably to make sure on THEIR end I really WAS right and the hardware was damaged; and that I hadn't just unplugged the computer or something.

Of course, it might be my patience, but the time it takes to get past the pleasantries is getting longer and longer.

Hi there
great comment about ubuntu on Dell. Next time there is an article about running windows on Mac you can go on about Islamic jihad.

You wouldn't be modded down.

What they do is install a default Ubuntu install without any tweaks at all, so if Ubuntu recognizes the monitor it works, and if it doesn't then it won't. I'm pretty sure my laptop came 16:10 resolution by default, but I honestly don't remember - the 4/3 bug might be something that only affects Intel cards instead of NVidia.

Still, this is absolutely unnaceptable from any perspective.

You're damn sure that dell widescreen pc's have a 16:9 resolution by default when windows is in the picture.

Dell, we warned you not to screw this up. Mess up, and you're dead. Once the geeks turn on you, you don't have much time left. Most of us are already telling entire families and groups of friends never to even go near Dell.

Ah well...

Does anyone have a link to a reputable source confirming this aspect ratio issue? In the absence of hard evidence, I'm a bit skeptical.

If they are just doing a vanilla install and leaving it at that, the next question is "why"?

Wasn't there a question about how much customization we wanted done to the machines in that survey they did? How did we answer that question? Is this a case of "be careful what you ask for because you might get it"?

The why is that they have a bucket of hard drives with a generic image that they just plug in and go.

They build to order which translates into they don't have any shelf stock, so they run the assembly line at full throttle. Little things like consistent builds between PCs in a bulk order and OS tweaks that aren't making them money go out the window.

It's not making them money and it's easy enough to change the resolution, so no problem in their eyes.

They may fix that in a new image, but at the moment it's a quirk.

Also, please note I'm not authoritative on the subject.

That's partly right, but it isn't as hard as suggested.

First, Dell supports a very small number of distinct laptops, and the display dimensions are fixed, not an option. Having one bulk disk per display dimension/disk size would not add significant complexity.

Second, if the screen dimensions available can be determined at runtime (e.g., via a BIOS check), a one-time shell script could be automatically executed on first power-up (which might even be in the factory) which detects and sets the default screen display.

Third, even if that is not an option, the first customer startup might include a "grandmother friendly" script or program that includes a "tell me what your screen looks like" question (with pictures and radio buttons) that then triggers the correct setting.

Any of these would be nearly free (small fixed cost and no incremental cost) for Dell, and improve their image to their customers.

As far as I know, this does not affect the laptop's main screen, but only if you connect an external widescreen LCD monitor.

Well, while that is still not optimal, it certainly throws a different light on the *severity* of the issue.

So basically, one person throws a half truth into the water and a Dell feeding frenzy ensues.

I actually feel sorry for Dell if the customers they are trying to satisfy all have such a vindictive attitude.

And while I'm posting, I'll mention that anyone who thinks that the Linux preinstalls are intended to improve Dell's image have been spending *way* too much time hanging out with the choir. (Or are just using this as an excuse to bash both Linux and/or Dell.)

I'm as big a Linux fan as there is, but I have enough of a grip on reality to realize that the majority of people either don't know about it, or don't care about OSes. Preinstalled Linux is hardly the sort of PR life preserver that some people around here are making it out to be. Give Dell some credit for actually listening to their customers this time. They've been doing Linux servers for a long time because they listened, and you can bet that this preinstalled consumer Linux thing is straining their relations with... a certain major OS provider.

I dislike corps as much as anyone. But sheesh! Give them some credit when they *do* decide to do the right thing.

This post is not directed at you, Archiesteel. Just general frustration with the fickleness of the community, sometimes.

We whine and complain because they ignore us, and then when they try to rectify the situation we spit in their faces. That attitude is *not* going to help Linux or FOSS. Not one damned bit.

Edit: That all probably comes off more harshly than is best, but that's my state of mind today.

Edited 2007-07-10 20:32

One of my customers just got 2 laptops with Ubuntu from System76 with intel graphics. I might have an opportunity to test one of those on a 10:8 external monitor to see how a more home grown vendor compares.

you misunderstand me, im not saying its hard, im saying its unacceptable on a _PREINSTALLED_ system.

Honestly, I'd rather not have Ubuntu preinstalled on a big-name PC if all of the hardware doesn't work out correctly of the box. I, for one, would rather not have the Ubuntu Dells ship outside of the United States (or even in the US, really) until they fix everything so it's on-par their Windows systems.

The display problem ridiculously easy to fix if you know how to do it, just like the poster above you pointed out. That makes it much worse in my eyes. It doesn't just make Dell look bad, it makes Ubuntu and Linux in general look bad. If Dell was feeling lazy, they should have just gone with (open)SuSE because SaX2 has much better display autoconfiguration and SuSE comes with proprietary codecs.

Almost anybody who wants a Dell Ubuntu system can get a free CD and install it themselves. And that's the beauty of it and Dell's chance to shine: Dell could preconfigure all of the hardware and preinstall the needed proprietary media codecs and browser plugins. Then Dellbuntus would be an extremely attractive proposition to those who can (and have) installed Ubuntu but can't get it to work quite right.

All of this isn't hard to do; even I could do it with little effort. Just set Ubuntu up on one Dell system and burn an image of the hard drive and deploy it on the others. It's not laborious or expensive to make configured hard drive images for each model.

All of this tells me Dell is only in this Linux thing to improve their image. And it makes me wonder if Dell chose the distro it did because "Ubuntu" has more buzz-wordiness than SuSE, Mandriva, or PCLinuxOS.

All of this tells me Dell is only in this Linux thing to improve their image. And it makes me wonder if Dell chose the distro it did because "Ubuntu" has more buzz-wordiness than SuSE, Mandriva, or PCLinuxOS.

Well, I always took that much as a given. I don't hold it against them, though, we should look at their actions not just their intentions. I do think they're expanding their Linux offerings now because they've actually been pleasantly surprised by their sales, but originally it was all about PR. That's one of the reasons I can forgive them for not making things perfect right away on their first try. If things haven't improved by Christmas, then I'll be disappointed. Of course, if Dell stops selling Linux altogether, as some people seem to wish, I'd be even more disappointed.

"sudo apt-get install 915-resolution"

How hard can that be??

Yuck. This is sooo yesterdaaayyyy... ;-) Intel drivers support modesetting:
http://xorg.freedesktop.org/wiki/ModeSetting
http://xorg.freedesktop.org/wiki/IntelGraphicsDriver

I have a hp pavillion 6101ea laptop, installed with ubuntu 7.04.
That was still the way for me, to install widescreen resolution.

I have a hp pavillion 6101ea laptop, installed with ubuntu 7.04.

That's because you use old X.Org X11 packages. I did not have a problem with Fedora 7 and hp nx7300 (correct widescreen resolution was picked up automatically).

Sit your granny down in front of that computer, or any competent Windows user for that matter, and repeat what you just typed. After you get the dear-in-headlights look for five minutes, then maybe you'll understand why this stuff should be setup already on a pre-installed machine. It's unacceptable for newbies or anyone purchasing a pre-installed environment to resort to the command line or even Synaptic to fetch additional device drivers.

Here in the US, Dell runs ads in newspapers, magazines, and other print. These ads have a "coupon code" you can use at Dell.com to buy a certain computer with a reasonably good discount.

It's a discount.
It's usually money off or something cheap for free, like a 64MB flash drive or a t-shirt.

So yeah I guess it is kind of like food stamps except the corporations subsidizes them rather then the government.

You know you can reply directly to a message by hitting the "Reply" link underneath it, right? It makes it easier to follow discussions...

"Manuals are for the fireplace, and nothing more."

That seems a bit short sighted, manuals are handy things to have. Everybody has a friendly neighborhood geek, but it's never wise to just toss manuals

They are handy, and save people lots of time especially when the manual has the serial code on it. >__>

I haven't seen a manual for a Dell in a long time. They have the warranty, the setup instructions, you know the giant poster that says plug blue A into blue B before doing C, and various packing materials. They don't have anything I would call a manual.

He would have a very small fire unless he gets lots of Dells.

Well..
None that I know about, have ever read any manuals.
That include manuals for microwave-ovens, and vcr's too.

That's what i have said early... Just buy that laptop, with windows, and get you'r money back... It's the way to go..
Else u have to find any local dealer, wich sells computers without any os. There are plenty of dealers, out there.

Edited 2007-07-10 21:38