Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 17th Jul 2007 13:23 UTC, submitted by Eugenia
Fedora Core "Fedora 8 is currently under development and is scheduled for release in November of this year (2007). This is a quick overview of the proposed features. As these are proposed features and it is still about 4 months from release some of these will change."
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Lotsa nice new stuff
by fsckit on Tue 17th Jul 2007 13:44 UTC
fsckit
Member since:
2006-09-24

The delta RPMs will be an awesome addition, considering the rate that Fedora receives updates. Although I'm no KDE fan, that KDE4 screenshot looks pretty slick as well. The only mentioned that concerns me a bit is the bootup changes. They mentioned a prettier bootup splash, like Ubuntu, but I sure hope I still have the option to hit F2 or Enter to see bootup messages, unlike Ubuntu. Ubuntu's bootup is either all graphical and tells you absolutely nothing, or if you turn it off in grub, the text boot is a mess and effectively tells you nothing.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Lotsa nice new stuff
by spikeb on Tue 17th Jul 2007 13:45 UTC in reply to "Lotsa nice new stuff"
spikeb Member since:
2006-01-18

you can see messages using ubuntu's splash as well. alt f2 or some such.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Lotsa nice new stuff
by zdzichu on Wed 18th Jul 2007 09:26 UTC in reply to "Lotsa nice new stuff"
zdzichu Member since:
2006-11-07

Remove "quiet" or change it into "verbose" in /boot/grub/menu.lst.

Reply Score: 1

Err
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 17th Jul 2007 13:51 UTC
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

Err, that KDE4 shot... Is that a mockup? You know, it looks like a carbon copy of Mezzo [1], the desktop environment used by SymphonyOS.

And what really worries me is the following headline: "Bigboard Replacement for GNOME panel that uses online services via mugshot". They're not replacing the GNOME panel with that online mugshotmyspace nonsense, are they? That would be the stupidest move in desktop Linux's history.

I'm assuming that mughshotmyspace nonsense sidebar is not a replacement, but a possible addition. Let's hope so.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezzo_(desktop_environment)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Err
by AdamW on Tue 17th Jul 2007 15:09 UTC in reply to "Err"
AdamW Member since:
2005-07-06

The text says "Bigboard is basically a sidebar for linux that partially replaces some of the top and bottom panel's functionality". Note 'partial'. So, yeah, doesn't sound like they're dropping the regular panel.

As far as actual panel replacements go, I love gimmie.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Err
by chillmatic100 on Tue 17th Jul 2007 17:58 UTC in reply to "Err"
chillmatic100 Member since:
2006-03-09

Err, that KDE4 shot... Is that a mockup? You know, it looks like a carbon copy of Mezzo [1], the desktop environment used by SymphonyOS.


I'm Clarence Pearson and that is my screenshot of my Kuartet Desktop Project ( http://kuartetdesktop.sourceforge.net ) running under KDE 3.5. You are correct in that it was heavily influenced by Mezzo. However I stopped working on it last year due to limitations in superkaramba ( lots of CPU usage), lack of time, and Plasma development ( I'm not a plasma developer but am eagerly awaiting the API documentation to continue implementing some of my desktop ideas ).

I don't know how somebody confused my project which has been in a long period of inactivity with the recent KDE4 development, but hey I'm not knocking the free publicity :-) I should probably contact the Fedora team and let them know about the mistake.

Reply Score: 5

Policykit
by netpython on Tue 17th Jul 2007 13:54 UTC
netpython
Member since:
2005-07-06

How exactly does Policykit prevent xorg from being run as root when the description of the kit is:"PolicyKit provides a flexible framework for granting users access to privileged operations."?

Still about time xorg being run with the currently logged in user credentials and no more.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Policykit
by fsckit on Tue 17th Jul 2007 14:06 UTC in reply to "Policykit"
fsckit Member since:
2006-09-24

The article? doesn't say anything about running xorg as a non-privileged user. It says it allows running xorg applications that require root permissions without running them as root. To go off topic for a bit, it's been possible to run xorg as a regular user for a long time but it requires some sacrifices and a little work that apparently none of the Linux distros are interested in. OpenBSD runs and has run xorg as the _X11 user for quite some time.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Policykit
by Finalzone on Tue 17th Jul 2007 16:58 UTC in reply to "RE: Policykit"
Finalzone Member since:
2005-07-06

With little research, here is more details about PolicyKit is under the link provided by the article

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePolicyKit

and

http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/hal/2007-June/008815.html

The answer is under TODO list of PolicyKit package. Note it depends of dbus notification which is currently developed :
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dbus/2007-June/007874.html

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Policykit
by netpython on Tue 17th Jul 2007 17:30 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Policykit"
netpython Member since:
2005-07-06

Thanks for the info.

Looks promising, i hope more distros will implement policykit although it seems more effective together with SELinux or grsec.

Reply Score: 2

Laptops
by Excel Hearts Choi on Tue 17th Jul 2007 14:04 UTC
Excel Hearts Choi
Member since:
2006-07-08

I recently saw an article here that talked about the tickless kernel. The author used the 2.6.21 kernel from F7, and then used the vanilla kernel 2.6.22. There were better results with regards to power consumption. The funny thing is, F7 still uses the 2.6.21 kernel, but rawhide, according to Distro Watch, has the 2.6.23 kernel. Did Fedora skip 2.6.22? If not, why has 2.6.22 not been migrated to F7? It seems that Fedora can improve laptop performance *right now*.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Laptops
by Lovechild on Tue 17th Jul 2007 14:24 UTC in reply to "Laptops"
Lovechild Member since:
2005-06-29

a 2.6.22 update is currently in updates-testing for F7, feel free to test it.

Reply Score: 5

Pulseaudio
by OStourist on Tue 17th Jul 2007 14:05 UTC
OStourist
Member since:
2007-06-19

Well that pulseaudio may be all find and dandy for people with multiple(Fedora) computers in their house...
but I would rather see them getting all the sound mixing
for single on-board(AC'97 and cousins) sound done right first.
ALSA is so buggy because many applications(ALL Java ones) use oss and cannot mix sound with alsa apps without a lot of work( for java applets maybe there is no solution).

Why not consider the new opensound OSS system(documented at www.opensound.com)? They are now opensound and I have replaced ALSA with it.
It solves some problems but doesn't integrate well
into Gnome or VMware system sounds. Ultimately there should be a kernel compiled to use it..but those are future plans.
I think this really should be watched as sound in linux is probably the worst I've seen in any unix system.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Pulseaudio
by miscz on Tue 17th Jul 2007 14:31 UTC in reply to "Pulseaudio"
miscz Member since:
2005-07-17

ALSA is so buggy because many applications(ALL Java ones) use oss and cannot mix sound with alsa apps without a lot of work( for java applets maybe there is no solution).

Installing ALSA-OSS compatibility (one package) and adding "aoss" as a command line prefix is not that much work ;)

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Pulseaudio
by OStourist on Tue 17th Jul 2007 16:38 UTC in reply to "RE: Pulseaudio"
OStourist Member since:
2007-06-19

actually that depends on your audience..if you are
trying to reach the linux beginner - and stuff like
codecbuddy seem to suggest that Fedora is trying for this goal - then saying "well start your application manually using aoss" is something that WILL send beginners back to
windoze.
But that aside, please tell me how to use aoss on Java
applets run from inside your favorite browser..
Here's another show-stopper..please tell me how
to run vmware with guest OS XP and linux host and get full sound mixing.Aoss won't help at all.
It's quite embarrassing to me but maybe i am the only person who likes to seriously multitask when using Fedora as a Desktop.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Pulseaudio
by AdamW on Tue 17th Jul 2007 15:08 UTC in reply to "Pulseaudio"
AdamW Member since:
2005-07-06

Actually, Pulse helps out a lot with that as well. It's the best option I've found yet for single-system mixing.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Pulseaudio
by gilboa on Wed 18th Jul 2007 06:31 UTC in reply to "Pulseaudio"
gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

"
ALSA is so buggy because many applications(ALL Java ones) use oss and cannot mix sound with alsa apps without a lot of work( for java applets maybe there is no solution).
"

Link? Google doesn't seem to return anything useful.
AFAIK, some products (Older skype, vmware) continue to use OSS simply because it's legacy code that semi-woks.
If Alsa has bugs, someone should report them (or better yet, help fix them) instead of using the almost-deprecated OSS.

"
Why not consider the new opensound OSS system
"

At least to me, ALSA is far less buggier then OSS, and unlike OSS supports mixing and multiple speaker setups.

- Gilboa

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Pulseaudio
by OStourist on Wed 18th Jul 2007 12:07 UTC in reply to "RE: Pulseaudio"
OStourist Member since:
2007-06-19

http://www.jmonkeyengine.com/jmeforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=e67723be5...

That's one thread..the fact that there is no direct bug link seems to me to point to ALSA being simply dead on this issue. But it's not dead in the how-to forums.

You are right that someone SHOULD fix the problems of buggy apps but noone seems to be doing that.
In an integrated OS like FreeBSD or Mac OS X such issues are critical!

Maybe you should read www.opensound.com..
It is NOT the old OSS and does FULL sound mixing and multiple speakers. I use it now and it works better
in Fedora than ALSA for most things(but needs kernel integration for perfect setup)

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Pulseaudio
by gilboa on Wed 18th Jul 2007 17:56 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Pulseaudio"
gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

... AFAICS the problem is java related and -not- ALSA related.

And as for OSS being better, well, too little, too late.
OSS should have been GPL'ed long, long ago.
Too much effort was spent in getting ALSA's support matrix look like it does now. I doubt that anyone will be willing to switch back to OSS.

- Gilboa

Reply Score: 3

Fedora and Mandriva Side by Side
by Excel Hearts Choi on Tue 17th Jul 2007 14:16 UTC
Excel Hearts Choi
Member since:
2006-07-08

Using the link above and this link [1], you can see a side by side comparison of the proposed changes for next release of Fedora and Mandriva.

[1] http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Releases/Mandriva/2008.0/What's_New

Reply Score: 1

Boot
by chocobanana on Tue 17th Jul 2007 15:44 UTC
chocobanana
Member since:
2006-01-04

Instead on thinking more on how to embellish the boot sequence, I would like to suggest that the devs concentrate more on the boot speed and significantly increase it, it's so important for many users (especially knowing that firewire gets broken after a suspend or hibernate resume....).

Also, I really like the actual boot graphics, the problem is that it has to load X twice (one for boot another for dektop).

Reply Score: 2

RE: Boot
by Finalzone on Tue 17th Jul 2007 16:48 UTC in reply to "Boot"
Finalzone Member since:
2005-07-06

Already addressed under FCNewInit:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FCNewInit

Possible steps to enhance boot startup:
- Clean up all initscripts
- Clean up /etc/init.d/functions
- Replace /etc/rc
- Make gdm/prefdm an initscript with early login
- D-Bus support

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Boot
by viton on Tue 17th Jul 2007 17:58 UTC in reply to "RE: Boot"
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

Possible steps to enhance boot startup:
The only way to make it fast is to execute actions in parallel.
Right now boot is serial and wastes 99% of cpu speed.
Linux boot time is insanely slow.

Edited 2007-07-17 17:59

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Boot
by Finalzone on Tue 17th Jul 2007 18:25 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Boot"
Finalzone Member since:
2005-07-06

Parallelization is mentioned on the link I posted but is not a magic bullet. Quoted from the link:

The other aspect of bootup speed is parallelization. Initially, this seems like a big win. However, testing of simple naive implementations show that, at least initially, parallelization isn't a huge benefit. Generally, this is because disk seek time and other I/O limitations can dominate. Moreover, a not insignificant portion of boot time is the parts handled by /etc/rc.sysinit; this is almost entirely linear in nature (need to load modules first, then check filesystems, then clean out /tmp, etc.)


Without proper handling of dependencies from services at boot startup, parallelization is useless.

Reply Score: 2

Another disappointing version
by simo on Tue 17th Jul 2007 17:14 UTC
simo
Member since:
2006-01-09

Don't fancy CodecBuddy if it's only going to link to the GStreamer commercial codecs instead of the free (of charge) codecs from Livna etc.

I really don't fancy NetworkManager as the default network configurator, having never actually got it to work properly (yeah cos I really want to switch from GigE to wifi just because you can pick up a signal!) It seems to me that its only useful for people who use DHCP, unencrypted wireless (assuming your wireless device is even supported) and only one network device.

If that BigBoard is going to be like XP/Vista's default menu, then I don't fancy that either. I prefer the list of applications in full rather than the "here are the programs you used recently or we think are useful" style.

I like the way they keep referring to Rhythmbox, jees does anyone outside of the Fedora-Dev team actually use that rubbish instead of XMMS or Amarok?

Presto/DeltaRPM will be great, my ISP will prefer it to me downloading 15Gb of RPM's like I just did for my local Fedora7 mirror.

The other features I couldn't care less about really, especially the virtualisation stuff - having looked at the useless GUI for Xen/QEMU under F7/RHEL5, I think I'll stick to VMWare Server.

I'm getting a bit fed-up with Fedora - FC5 had to be the last groundbreaking version, FC6 was dead iffy and F7 is just OK, nothing special.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Another disappointing version
by spikeb on Tue 17th Jul 2007 17:36 UTC in reply to "Another disappointing version"
spikeb Member since:
2006-01-18

yes, i would venture that a majority of gnome users use rhythmbox instead of either of the above mentioned eyesores.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Another disappointing version
by simo on Tue 17th Jul 2007 20:14 UTC in reply to "RE: Another disappointing version"
simo Member since:
2006-01-09

yeah right, as most users really give a damn what audio players look like.

and hey i use gnome, i am a fedora user after all, and most ubuntu fanboys use amarok or audacious/xmms too.

next argument.

Reply Score: 0

PJBonoVox Member since:
2006-08-14

Wow, you are a really boring person. Try backing your argument up with some facts instead of just trolling.

You don't know what 'most users' want. You just presume it's the same as you.

Edited 2007-07-18 12:35

Reply Score: 1

SEJeff Member since:
2005-11-05

Recently, I've been playing with Exaile, and it is excellent.

Amarok has 500,000,000 features, but is somewhat cluttered and not the best for new users. Exaile is similar to Amarok in style and layout, but seems to be a bit cleaner.

Obligitory screenshot:
http://www.vivaolinux.com.br/imagens/artigos/comunidade/exaile.jpg

Reply Score: 1

RE: Another disappointing version
by gilboa on Wed 18th Jul 2007 06:58 UTC in reply to "Another disappointing version"
gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

"
Don't fancy CodecBuddy if it's only going to link to the GStreamer commercial codecs instead of the free (of charge) codecs from Livna etc.
"

Gee. Maybe this [1], this [2] and this [3] has something to do with it.
You know what, contact Fraunhofer [4] and get him to exempt Fedora (and Feodra-based distribution) from the need to pay licensing fees and Fedora will auto-install MP3-codecs by default, OK?

[1] http://www.mp3licensing.com/patents/
[2] http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070222-8910.html
[3] http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/02/26/HNmp3lawsuits_1.html
[4] http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/fhg/iis/EN/bf/amm/index.jsp

Reply Score: 4

Features in all of the big 4 new distros
by SEJeff on Tue 17th Jul 2007 22:55 UTC
SEJeff
Member since:
2005-11-05

For those who would like to compare them side by side, here is a decent set of links to read through.
http://linuxupdate.blogspot.com/2007/07/proposed-fedora-8-features.... Fedora
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/ Ubuntu
http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Releases/Mandriva/2008.0/What's_New Mandriva
http://lwn.net/Articles/233614/ OpenSuse new features

Edit:
Changed opensuse as to not point to a pdf.

Edited 2007-07-17 23:01

Reply Score: 5

spikeb Member since:
2006-01-18

excellent post! thanks for the info ;)

Reply Score: 2

Bigboard in FC8
by Sabz on Thu 19th Jul 2007 03:42 UTC
Sabz
Member since:
2005-07-07

cant say i like that idea think i will be making the switch if Fedora devs go with that idea,,

Reply Score: 1

RE: Bigboard in FC8
by justinc on Thu 19th Jul 2007 15:03 UTC in reply to "Bigboard in FC8"
justinc Member since:
2006-07-24

I assume it is something you can turn off/on.

Reply Score: 1