Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 6th Aug 2007 18:15 UTC
Window Managers Openbox 3.4.4 has been released. "Openbox is a minimalistic, highly configurable, next generation window manager with extensive standards support. Openbox lets you bring the latest applications outside of a full desktop environment. Most modern applications have been written with GNOME and KDE in mind. With support for the latest freedesktop.org standards, as well as careful adherence to previous standards, Openbox provides an environment where applications work the way they were designed to."
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Yay!
by 1c3d0g on Mon 6th Aug 2007 19:24 UTC
1c3d0g
Member since:
2005-07-06

Glad to see another update for this amazing window manager.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Yay!
by deb2006 on Mon 6th Aug 2007 19:52 UTC in reply to "Yay!"
deb2006 Member since:
2006-06-26

What is so "amazing" about it? I mean it's nice. But I don't see anything that makes it more special than e.g. fvwm or blackbox.

Reply Score: 0

next generatiom?
by ubik on Mon 6th Aug 2007 19:37 UTC
ubik
Member since:
2007-08-06

I wonder what "next generation window manager" really means.

Would somebody care to explain?

Reply Score: 2

RE: next generatiom?
by deb2006 on Mon 6th Aug 2007 19:51 UTC in reply to "next generatiom?"
deb2006 Member since:
2006-06-26

My windowmanager is better than your windowmanager - why? It's a next generation windowmanager. So it's gotta be great ...

Reply Score: 0

RE: next generatiom?
by fretinator on Mon 6th Aug 2007 20:24 UTC in reply to "next generatiom?"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

I wonder what "next generation window manager" really means.


Nietzsche's "Overman" runs it!

Reply Score: 3

RE: next generatiom?
by helf on Mon 6th Aug 2007 23:36 UTC in reply to "next generatiom?"
helf Member since:
2005-07-06

what the heck is up with ubiks comment rating? -299.40!?!?

Reply Score: 3

RE: next generatiom?
by Soulbender on Tue 7th Aug 2007 05:08 UTC in reply to "next generatiom?"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"I wonder what "next generation window manager" really means. "

It means exactly the same as everything else that is "Next Generation": nothing.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: next generatiom?
by lemur2 on Tue 7th Aug 2007 06:33 UTC in reply to "RE: next generatiom?"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

It means exactly the same as everything else that is "Next Generation": nothing.


Not quite.

"Next Generation" means "more recent than previous generation".

Nothing more than that, though.

Reply Score: 3

Two queastions:
by deb2006 on Mon 6th Aug 2007 19:49 UTC
deb2006
Member since:
2006-06-26

1. Why do we need to know every single release of Openbox? Is it that important?

2. I have tried it with Gnome, and I don't see any benefit over Gnome's native windowmanager. If anyone cares to explain ... (On the contrary, Gnome became unstable: I suddenly wasn't able to kill windows anymore; some windows appeared without a frame etc. [latest & greatest Debian Etch with native deb packages])

Reply Score: 1

RE: Two queastions:
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 6th Aug 2007 20:05 UTC in reply to "Two queastions:"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Why do we need to know every single release of Openbox? Is it that important?

Yes.

Long answer: Linux has taken up much of the alternative operating system space. Since news regarding really alternative operating systems is much sparser today than it was when OSNews started, we need to adapt to fill that void. Reporting on lesser known window managers and desktop environments for X takes that role.

Reply Score: 1

v RE[2]: Two queastions:
by ubik on Mon 6th Aug 2007 20:18 UTC in reply to "RE: Two queastions:"
v RE[2]: Two queastions:
by ideasman42 on Mon 6th Aug 2007 21:14 UTC in reply to "RE: Two queastions:"
RE[3]: Two queastions:
by Soulbender on Tue 7th Aug 2007 05:12 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Two queastions:"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Is a score of -500 the new punishment for disagreeing with the editors? I doubt 500 people mod'ed this down.

Reply Score: 5

v RE[2]: Two queastions:
by dtiziani on Mon 6th Aug 2007 21:28 UTC in reply to "RE: Two queastions:"
RE[2]: Two queastions:
by Soulbender on Tue 7th Aug 2007 05:11 UTC in reply to "RE: Two queastions:"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Seriously, it's a minor bugfix release. It's not really all that importat or interesting.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Two queastions:
by Zoidberg on Mon 6th Aug 2007 20:17 UTC in reply to "Two queastions:"
Zoidberg Member since:
2006-02-11

1. Why do we need to know every single release of Openbox? Is it that important?

This is OSNews, why shouldn't it be reported. Just skip over it and go to the next post if you're not interested.

Reply Score: 8

RE: Two queastions:
by fretinator on Mon 6th Aug 2007 20:32 UTC in reply to "Two queastions:"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

Why do we need to know every single release of Openbox? Is it that important?


OpenBox, as with the *Box's in general (black, flux), offers a nice WM for older or memory-short machines. I run it on my PI/PII laptops. It really is not a competitor to the native WM's that come with the Gnome or Kde Desktops. I think it is better as a lightweight WM by itself. I also like to use one of the *Box's with VNCServer - I don't want Gnome or Kde firing up remotely! One of the lightweight WM's is better suited for this purpose.

As for the NEVER ENDING comment we hear about "Why do you report on XYZ at OSNews?", please let it go everybody. If you don't want to read a particular article, most keyboards have PageUp and PageDown buttons on them. Some of these fancy new mice even have scroll wheels! Use them.

[EDIT] [OT] - I hope the poor guy who got a -500 for his first post doesn't give up! Hang in there!

Edited 2007-08-06 20:38

Reply Score: 6

v RE[2]: Two queastions:
by dtiziani on Tue 7th Aug 2007 02:54 UTC in reply to "RE: Two queastions:"
RE[2]: Two queastions:
by theine on Tue 7th Aug 2007 10:26 UTC in reply to "RE: Two queastions:"
theine Member since:
2005-09-29

It really is not a competitor to the native WM's that come with the Gnome (or Kde) Desktops

Excuse me? Metacity has got to be one of the most featureless window managers in existence. Exactly how can Openbox not compete?

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Two queastions:
by lemur2 on Tue 7th Aug 2007 10:54 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Two queastions:"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Excuse me? Metacity has got to be one of the most featureless window managers in existence. Exactly how can Openbox not compete?


It doesn't compete with metacity because replacing the metacity WM with Openbox, but still using the rest of Gnome, will bring no benefit at all.

What you need to do to make a fast lightweight desktop is get rid of Gnome and all of its dependencies.

Try Openbox + fbpanel + gtk + pcmanfm (or rox filer) instead of Gnome.

Try metacity + fbpanel + gtk + pcmanfm (or rox filer) instead of Gnome.

Try JWM + fbpanel + gtk + pcmanfm (or rox filer) instead of Gnome.

Try LXDE instead of Gnome.

Try XFCE instead of Gnome.

Any of those will fly, compared with Gnome on the same system. All of them are not as powerful as Gnome. It is a classic speed vs functionality trade-off.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Two queastions:
by lemur2 on Tue 7th Aug 2007 01:55 UTC in reply to "Two queastions:"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

I have tried it with Gnome, and I don't see any benefit over Gnome's native windowmanager. If anyone cares to explain


It is meant as a replacement for GNOME or KDE on older machines which don't have the resources. Typically it is meant for a machine that originally came with Windows 95 or Windows 98 installed.

There are a few lightweight desktops built around lightweight window managers:
http://lxde.sourceforge.net/
http://www.icewm.org/

Openbox is typically used for "ligtweight spin-off" types of distributions:
http://tinyme.mypclinuxos.com/
http://www.mypclinuxos.com/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;i...
http://www.mypclinuxos.com/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;i...

(I am waiting for test 5 of Tinyme myself to put on an old IBM T20 laptop I have).

I hope this helps.

Another one: http://grafpup.org/

Edited 2007-08-07 02:15

Reply Score: 3

RE: Two queastions:
by marafaka on Tue 7th Aug 2007 09:05 UTC in reply to "Two queastions:"
marafaka Member since:
2006-01-03

deb2006 said: "2. I have tried it with Gnome, and I don't see any benefit..."

Exactly my experience with all the *boxes: no benefit, didn't feel any lightness etc. If you wanna fly use WMI or DWM.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Two queastions:
by lemur2 on Tue 7th Aug 2007 10:44 UTC in reply to "RE: Two queastions:"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

deb2006 said: "2. I have tried it with Gnome, and I don't see any benefit..."

Exactly my experience with all the *boxes: no benefit, didn't feel any lightness etc. If you wanna fly use WMI or DWM.


It is not the Openbox WM (or even GNOME's WM metacity) that is the problem, it is the GNOME desktop itself.

If you want to fly (even on old hardware), then [ (Openbox or metacity or sawfish or xfwm4) + (fbpanel or lxpanel) + (rox filer or pcmanfm) ] is a perfectly acceptable approach to a lightweight desktop.

Once again, it was not Openbox that caused the lack of benefit that deb2006 reported, it was the "tried it with Gnome" bit that caused the lack of benefit. deb2006 did not replace the resource-hog software (Gnome desktop) that was causing the sluggishness.

Replacing Gnome's metacity WM with Openbox WM, or even for that matter with WMI or DWM indeed won't have any benefit.

Edited 2007-08-07 10:54

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Two queastions:
by marafaka on Tue 7th Aug 2007 11:10 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Two queastions:"
marafaka Member since:
2006-01-03

So I'll shuffle it down your throat ;)

2. replace *box with WMI
3. notice how frustrating this gnome + WMI setup is
4. get rid of gnome and take off

This is not for everybody but that lightweightness and nextgenerationnes arguments are as irritating as denis enlargement ads ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Two queastions:
by lemur2 on Tue 7th Aug 2007 11:42 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Two queastions:"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

So I'll shuffle it down your throat ;)

2. replace *box with WMI
3. notice how frustrating this gnome + WMI setup is
4. get rid of gnome and take off


Or, alternatively, just do this:

2. notice how frustrating this gnome + metacity setup is
3. replace metacity with openbox + fbpanel
4. get rid of gnome and take off

This is not for everybody but that lightweightness and nextgenerationnes arguments are as irritating as denis enlargement ads ;)


Well, OK. As you say, it isn't for everybody.

But if some people are indeed looking for a lightweight desktop to bring some new life back to older hardware, that is still capable of running current gtk applications at useable speed, then those people do need to understand how to go about it.

Replace Gnome. Or replace KDE. replace the "heavy" bit that is holding the system down. That is the trick.

As you point out, there are several viable way to do that replacement. It isn't really an argument ... pick something that suits your purpose and fits the bill ... or don't. You could just go & buy new kit if you have the money and you don't feel inclined to experiment here. The point is ... there are some people who do want to do something functional and lightweight with old hardware. If you don't want to do that then fine, don't, and don't waste your time reading a thread like this and getting yourself all irritated about it.

Reply Score: 4

v yeah, right...
by ubik on Mon 6th Aug 2007 21:46 UTC
v oscrap
by ubik on Mon 6th Aug 2007 22:02 UTC
openbox user
by ideasman42 on Mon 6th Aug 2007 22:15 UTC
ideasman42
Member since:
2007-07-20

I use openbox on my main workstation, its an excellent windowmanager and whenever I read on osnews that theres an update, I compile and install. But I still dont think its an appropriate osnews topic.

Reply Score: 1

May give it a try.
by SpYkEs on Mon 6th Aug 2007 22:15 UTC
SpYkEs
Member since:
2007-08-06

I use flux as my default WM and love it. i might give this a spin to see how it fairs. I dont think there will be a massive different however. it does seem openbox gets updated for often... hmmm.

on the acceptable topic debate i think its fine to be on osnews. If you dont care about it there is no point clicking on the article and leaving a comment just pass it by.

Edited 2007-08-06 22:16

Reply Score: 1

need a taskbar
by adkk on Tue 7th Aug 2007 01:53 UTC
adkk
Member since:
2007-07-11

I'd really like to try OpenBox (currently using XFCE) but as far as I can see, it does not come with a taskbar, or whatever you like to call it. Is anyone aware of a standalone taskbar without Gnome or KDE dependencies?

Reply Score: 1

RE: need a taskbar
by lemur2 on Tue 7th Aug 2007 02:03 UTC in reply to "need a taskbar"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

I'd really like to try OpenBox (currently using XFCE) but as far as I can see, it does not come with a taskbar, or whatever you like to call it. Is anyone aware of a standalone taskbar without Gnome or KDE dependencies?


lxpanel: http://sourceforge.net/projects/lxpanel/

fbpanel: http://fbpanel.sourceforge.net/

Personally, I am looking at the combination of Openbox and fbpanel.

This should be much "lighter" than XFCE, and it should run GTK2 applications just fine even on older, resource-limited hardware.

Reply Score: 4

RE: need a taskbar
by bogomipz on Tue 7th Aug 2007 12:16 UTC in reply to "need a taskbar"
bogomipz Member since:
2005-07-11

pypanel seems to be mighty popular, but make sure you also check out:

Tint: http://code.google.com/p/ttm/
AWN: http://code.google.com/p/avant-window-navigator/

Also, I highly recommend installing gmrun and bind it to some keyboard shortcut (like "W-e") in OpenBox. It's a simple gtk window which lets you start programs with tab-completion.

Reply Score: 1

v Yeah Yeah
by dtiziani on Tue 7th Aug 2007 02:49 UTC
Configurations
by Andre4s on Tue 7th Aug 2007 05:59 UTC
Andre4s
Member since:
2006-02-10

Is there some kind of configuration tool for openbox? the default ubuntu look was not that fun.

Is this a spin off from blackbox?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Configurations
by lemur2 on Tue 7th Aug 2007 06:31 UTC in reply to "Configurations"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Is there some kind of configuration tool for openbox?


Obconf.

http://icculus.org/openbox/index.php/ObConf:About

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openbox#Configuration

This may also help:
http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Openbox#Configuring_Openbox

Is this a spin off from blackbox?


Originally, yes. Currently, no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openbox
"Openbox is a free window manager for the X Window System, licensed under the GNU General Public License. Openbox was originally derived from Blackbox 0.65.0, but has been totally rewritten in the C programming language and, since version 3.0, is not based upon any code from Blackbox."

Edited 2007-08-07 06:38

Reply Score: 4

RE: Configurations
by dino on Tue 7th Aug 2007 14:08 UTC in reply to "Configurations"
dino Member since:
2007-08-07

Ubuntu still distributes Openbox 3.3. There's a world of difference from 3.3 to 3.4.

Reply Score: 1

I still like fluxbox better
by pllb on Tue 7th Aug 2007 13:27 UTC
pllb
Member since:
2007-04-30

I've tried openbox a few times but always find myself going back to flux.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Configurations
by pllb on Tue 7th Aug 2007 14:58 UTC
pllb
Member since:
2007-04-30

Of course it still distributes it, it's based on debian unstable from back before April or whenever Ubuntu's last release was. Debian Unstable oth has the 3.4 =)

Reply Score: 1