Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 9th Aug 2007 17:21 UTC, submitted by ssam
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu Gutsy Gibbon Tribe 4 is the fourth alpha release of Ubuntu 7.10, and this alpha release brings a list of new features, including Tracker, Openoffice 2.3 Beta, AppArmor, and more. For PowerPC and PS3 see this page in the wiki.
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It's about time
by SlackerJack on Thu 9th Aug 2007 17:50 UTC
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Ubuntu had better security features, Why AppAmour over SELinux I dont know. Theres been a lot of debate about Tracker being integrated so quick.

Reply Score: 4

RE: It's about time
by butters on Thu 9th Aug 2007 19:37 UTC in reply to "It's about time"
butters Member since:

Decent overview:

Basically, AppArmor has a limited scope compared to SELinux. It doesn't do RBAC, so an application runs under the same policy regardless of the user. It will prevent code injection, but it will not always prevent malicious code from running if it is somehow injected (while protection is disabled, for example).

On the other hand, AppArmor is vastly easier to understand and use. Application policies practically write themselves with a little bit of guided clue-batting. It doesn't care about filesystem types or complex data flow scenarios. Policies can easily be enabled or disabled on a per-application basis.

AppArmor isn't designed for the most demanding environments such as banking and government. SELinux isn't designed to be touched by mere mortals. There's no such thing as perfect security, and the law of diminishing returns kicks in at a certain point depending on your needs.

For the vast majority of users, AppArmor provides greatly enhanced security in an understandable and manageable package. For the few that can afford high-priced security consultants, SELinux goes the extra mile. Red Hat would be glad to sell you such services.

But for Ubuntu's target market, the KISS approach seems more appropriate. When there's more complexity in the policy than in the framework, I consider that to be a design flaw.

Reply Score: 13

RE[2]: It's about time
by aent on Thu 9th Aug 2007 22:06 UTC in reply to "RE: It's about time"
aent Member since:

In SELinux, you can easily enable and disable them now as well, and the setroubleshooter makes policies basically write themselves as well. You can't override security by renaming a file with SELinux as the policies are stored with the files. Plus, gnome is providing integration into SELinux permissions in the next version I believe. I think SELinux makes more sense for Ubuntu, but AppArmor is better then nothing.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: It's about time
by notig on Fri 10th Aug 2007 03:06 UTC in reply to "RE: It's about time"
notig Member since:

they should make you a moderator butters!

Reply Score: 3

RE: It's about time
by jadeshade on Fri 10th Aug 2007 00:30 UTC in reply to "It's about time"
jadeshade Member since:

as an addendum to what butters said: SElinux was coded by the department of defense, so it's not only for immortals, but by immortals as well.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: It's about time
by tsedlmeyer on Fri 10th Aug 2007 02:39 UTC in reply to "RE: It's about time"
tsedlmeyer Member since:

Actually development of SElinux was funded by the NSA not the DoD.

Reply Score: 1

Member since:

Don't get me wrong, I love Ubuntu as much as the next guy, but as a typical desktop user I'm not really seeing much that interests me. I've been on a bit of an aesthetics kick lately, so if the font situation -- the DEFAULT font situation -- gets better, and turn off anti-aliasing for smaller font sizes (ala Windows), I'd be a bit happier. Add in some better panel configurations for Gnome (seriously, why is there a panel on the top AND the bottom? it seems like the worst of both worlds). Stronger integrated menu management without having to run a third party app would be nice too. The desktop in many ways doesn't feel very cohesive to me. Every time I do a clean install it's like I have to spend hours pulling packages out of god-knows-what repository to get some fonts that don't suck (because the system may or may not be patent encumbered), and then tweak the panels and as many other settings as I can.

But, all in all, I love having a free desktop, and it does get more polished all the time. But I think this will be the first Ubuntu release that I don't rush out and download right away.

Reply Score: 3

pinky Member since:

>I love Ubuntu as much as the next guy, but as a typical desktop user I'm not really seeing much that interests me.

I agree. For a long time i also rushed from one release to the next to get always the latest and greatest.
Now i become lazy to install and configure my system every few months. I have set up Debian Etch and even if it is just GNOME 2.14 it does what i want and i'm happy that i have a system that just works and i don't have to work on it every few months.

After many years of installing at day one the latest and greatest Free Software i become calmer and just enjoy my system.

Edited 2007-08-09 18:48

Reply Score: 4

Flatline Member since:

I usually just keep a partition or ten around on my test machine for checking out different distros; I usually keep my "workhorse" installation around for quite a while, but I like taking a look at what is new as well.

Reply Score: 3

cmost Member since:

If you want cutting edge, love the flexibility and power of Debian but don't want to have to "wait" for the next 'buntu release (or Debian stable,) then I recommend Sidux Linux. Sidux is Debian Sid done right. It's polished and has lots of unique tools for easy desktop configuration. Plus, it has access to the vast amount of Debian packages (no waiting around for Ubuntu developers to create a 'buntu package.) It's fast, stable and best of all, cutting edge. The next big release is only an apt-get dist-upgrade away. People will say that Debian Sid breaks easily due to its rapid development. Fortunately, Sidux posts upgrade warnings on its forums so if you check there before you do an upgrade, you'll likely avoid such situations. I highly recommend Sidux Linux for those power users who find Ubuntu a bit too sedate.

Reply Score: 2

leech Member since:

I would use Sidux, except that it only uses KDE. Granted you could install Gnome on it, but then you may as well just run Debian Sid.

Right now I've gotten rid of Ubuntu on both my Laptop and my Desktop. I'm running Sid on both of them. I was running Gutsy for a while on my laptop, but it was eating it's battery away the same way Vista does.

After I installed Debian Sid, the battery would last twice as long.

Debian Sid also tends to have newer packages for a lot of the emulators which I love to run.

I've noticed that the real differences between Ubuntu and Debian;

+ for Ubuntu:
Newest Gnome
Automatic set up of proper polish (usplash, etc)
Add / Remove programs (Debian finally has this)
Restricted Manager
6 Month release schedule
Packages are included faster, because it takes more time for someone to become an authorized Debian Developer (this is a plus and minus, see below.) Great resource for new software outside of the repositories.

- for Ubuntu
Not tested long enough (stability problems)
Some package dependency issues (nvidia-glx and nvidia-settings even though the settings program is in the nvidia-glx package, or epiphany depending on firefox instead of xulrunner, so you can't run Ubuntu desktop without firefox (although I like firefox, the option should be there)

These really are the differences between Debian Sid. It does look like when Lenny is released, it'll have all the things Gutsy has right now. Xorg 7.3, Gnome 2.20 (or maybe even 2.22).

I haven't really had any breakages in Debian Sid that were major. Kino was uninstallable for a while, but it wouldn't have mattered since the firewire stack in 2.6.22 is now different than it has been before.

Well those are just some thoughts. Ubuntu is shaping up rather nicely, and I always recommend it as an alternative to Windows XP and especially Vista.

Reply Score: 2

I Like 7.10
by cylent on Thu 9th Aug 2007 18:42 UTC
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I've never been a fan of Ubuntu to be honest. it always felt like a naked windows for me. theres always missing programs that i always need. do you remember the last time you reinstalled windows? you'd usually spend 2 or more hours getting everything setup with your hardware, installing required apps, and so on. thats how 7.04 feels for me. The default theme sux. the basic apps i don't use. i have to download a million things.
people always praised it as the CD which had all the required apps and thats great.
well until now.

1) works with my laptops 1280x800 resolution just right. in the past i had to use 915resolution however now i see no hint of it. apparently the intel driver used in xorg works correct.

2) compiz-fusion is very nice!

3) the overall feel and snappiness of 7.10 is just right.

again. i never thought i'd say this but keep up the great work! and i am downloading tribe4 as we speak now.

by the way when will it enter beta?

Edited 2007-08-09 18:44

Reply Score: 2

by smitty on Thu 9th Aug 2007 18:54 UTC
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I think a bunch of the startup scripts are supposed to be ported to upstart, so it will be interesting to see if that makes a noticeable difference.

Also, it will have 7.3 which should be a nice improvement for desktop linux users.

Edited 2007-08-09 18:56

Reply Score: 2

RE: Upstart
by meebee on Thu 9th Aug 2007 21:54 UTC in reply to "Upstart"
meebee Member since:

Unfortunately, there will be no native upstart jobs for gutsy.

Read the comment from keybuk (upstream developer) at 01:11.

Edited 2007-08-09 21:55

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Upstart
by smitty on Thu 9th Aug 2007 22:31 UTC in reply to "RE: Upstart"
smitty Member since:

Good catch. They were supposed to get into Feisty but were delayed with the promise of being in Gutsy, but I guess that didn't work out either.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Upstart
by meebee on Thu 9th Aug 2007 22:51 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Upstart"
meebee Member since:

Well, the whole new event based paradigm turned out to be more, I don't want to say complex, but new.
I think it's rational to delay the release of a fully event based boot than to rush it. After all, it's a complete break of existing paradigdms and that takes time to get right. Being conservative with things like /sbin/init is ok imho.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Upstart
by smitty on Thu 9th Aug 2007 23:44 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Upstart"
smitty Member since:

I was looking forward to it and I'm disappointed that they haven't put in the required man-hours to get it up to speed. However, the init system is clearly one of the more critical parts of the OS and they can't afford to have bugs there. So I can understand being conservative because if it isn't ready then pushing it out anyway would be a disaster.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Upstart
by notig on Fri 10th Aug 2007 03:10 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Upstart"
notig Member since:

Anyone know the projected decrease in boot time in the future of upstart? will it be noticeable?

Reply Score: 2

by lqsh on Thu 9th Aug 2007 20:30 UTC
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by jcinacio on Thu 9th Aug 2007 21:50 UTC
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I like it, and use it along with a winXP vm(ware) at work because for me it "just works".

Ubuntu is a bit like gnome: it just keeps getting better every day (or 6 months), even if you don't notice it immediately...

.. though i still hate those colors and background!

Reply Score: 2

Apport for Gutsy...
by gothic on Sun 12th Aug 2007 11:03 UTC
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This one is a great new on Gutsy.. with automated crash rectracer / duplicate checker using Canonical datacenters.

Reply Score: 1