Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 15th Aug 2007 20:02 UTC, submitted by Raffaele
Amiga & AROS In a discussion on Amiga forum site The Amigans, the Friedens twin brothers (developers of AmigaOS 4.0 exec kernel) revealed that the complete Amiga OS architecture will move ahead to a new design. The new AmigaOS (let's call it AmigaOS 4+1) will include some sort of virtual environment in which old (AmigaOS 4.0) applications will run as separate tasks, in their own address space. MorphOS, an Amiga-like operating system, employs a similar method to allow for compatibility with older Amiga 3.x applications. AmigaWorld of course also discusses the matter.
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Don't tell me...
by rhyder on Wed 15th Aug 2007 20:46 UTC
rhyder
Member since:
2005-09-28

Don't tell me... it'll be ready in about 18 months?

Reply Score: 4

Amiga is dead
by bthylafh on Wed 15th Aug 2007 21:11 UTC
bthylafh
Member since:
2006-09-21

Just let it go.

Reply Score: 9

RE: Amiga is dead
by helf on Wed 15th Aug 2007 22:19 UTC in reply to "Amiga is dead"
helf Member since:
2005-07-06

Why?

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Amiga is dead
by Soulbender on Thu 16th Aug 2007 04:08 UTC in reply to "RE: Amiga is dead"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Yeah, why?
Come on, this Amiga fiasco is like an 80's soap opera; it just goes on and on and on, getting worse by every new season. Yet, it's somewhat entertaining in all it's cheesy badness and you catch yourself catching up on it now and then.

Reply Score: 5

Amiga OS Forever
by zetsurin on Wed 15th Aug 2007 21:18 UTC
zetsurin
Member since:
2006-06-13

Amiga OS Forever by 3D Realms.

Anytime now...

Reply Score: 7

RE: Amiga OS Forever
by Belial6 on Wed 15th Aug 2007 21:56 UTC in reply to "Amiga OS Forever"
Belial6 Member since:
2007-06-07

Sorry, Amiga Forever is already out.

http://www.amigaforever.com/

Reply Score: 5

RE: Amiga OS Forever
by ebasconp on Wed 15th Aug 2007 22:27 UTC in reply to "Amiga OS Forever"
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

Funny!!!

And the Oscar for the VAPORWARE application goes to Duke Nukem Forever.

And the Oscar for the VAPORWARE device goes to the new Amiga computer!

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Amiga OS Forever
by Raffaele on Wed 15th Aug 2007 23:59 UTC in reply to "RE: Amiga OS Forever"
Raffaele Member since:
2005-11-12

Ebasconp wrote:


And the Oscar for the VAPORWARE application goes to Duke Nukem Forever.

And the Oscar for the VAPORWARE device goes to the new Amiga computer!


And perhaps the Oscar for TOTAL SECURITY OS goes to Windows Vista?

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: Amiga OS Forever
by truckweb on Thu 16th Aug 2007 00:13 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Amiga OS Forever"
truckweb Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, at least Vista is here now and running. It's probably not the best release of Windows, but it works for most users.

More importantly, it's Windows running on alive hardware that you can buy everywhere. It's what 95% of the world is using (or so, don't quote me).

Amiga, for all it's glory and fame, is now a very small niche market of strong FANS that can't forget about it. And all the work being done to keep it alive is .... well, like Duke Nukem, it's the never ending project/OS, on hard to find and costly hardware.

Don't get me wrong, Amiga was ahead of it's time, a very good computer that could do stuff IBM/Apple could only dream about. But we are in 2007 now.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Amiga OS Forever
by paws on Thu 16th Aug 2007 02:01 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Amiga OS Forever"
paws Member since:
2007-05-28

>> But we are in 2007 now.

Yeah, and it sucks.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Amiga OS Forever
by BluenoseJake on Thu 16th Aug 2007 16:13 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Amiga OS Forever"
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

And perhaps the Oscar for TOTAL IRRELEVANT COMMENT goes to Raffaele?

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Amiga OS Forever
by Raffaele on Thu 16th Aug 2007 16:28 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Amiga OS Forever"
Raffaele Member since:
2005-11-12

Bluenose jake wrote:

[quote]


And perhaps the Oscar for TOTAL IRRELEVANT COMMENT goes to Raffaele?

[/quote]

Dear Sir,

I am only tried to defend my preferred OS from trolls...

They made some humor about vapourware?

So I just pointed with some humor the fact that all security system of Vista is nothing than Vapour and deserve an Oscar for this fact...

So now, why don't you wrote your irrilevant comments into the threads regarding other Operating Systems?

I bet that you will taste on your own skin how your comments will be apprecciated by people who are talking constructively about other OSes, into their threads.

-----

Sincerely I don't know why you infamous people hate so much the Amiga that on any news you spot about AmigaOS, you got the dare to enter the threads and offend...

There are people still interested in Amiga, and we barely can bear you trolls.

Seems that you trolls hate the fact Amiga it is still alive...

Edited 2007-08-16 16:31

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Amiga OS Forever
by freaks on Thu 16th Aug 2007 17:54 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Amiga OS Forever"
freaks Member since:
2006-02-17

@raffaelle

looking at what you say about JKFF, it's obvious you don't have a clue what this software is.

i'll explain it to you:

it's a system wide patch, that patch amigaos font rendering system to allow displaying and inputing Japanese on amiga.
it have nothing to do with notepad or ibrowse in particular. it works system wide. so even shell, menu, filenames and folders (incidentaly ibrowse and notepad too) , just everything can display japanese with JKFF installed.

but in no way it helps with lack of utf8 support on Amiga. it's only used to display and input Japanese and Japanese only. and it doesn't work on os4.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Amiga OS Forever
by StephenBeDoper on Thu 16th Aug 2007 20:34 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Amiga OS Forever"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Sincerely I don't know why you infamous people hate so much the Amiga that on any news you spot about AmigaOS, you got the dare to enter the threads and offend...

There are people still interested in Amiga, and we barely can bear you trolls.


Yes, this is an Amiga-related thread, so the trollish "lol, it's dead, lols!!!11" comments are pretty much inevitable (just as in any thread related to OS/2 / ECS, Haiku / BeOS, etc). But countering with equally-trollish comments about visit doesn't accomplish anything except to drag the discussion further down into the muck.

Reply Score: 2

No more promises.
by ebasconp on Wed 15th Aug 2007 22:35 UTC
ebasconp
Member since:
2006-05-09

We the users need a little respect!

Ave AROS! (www.aros.org)

Reply Score: 5

RE: No more promises.
by Almafeta on Thu 16th Aug 2007 04:58 UTC in reply to "No more promises."
Almafeta Member since:
2007-02-22

Advertisements with links should be moderated down, not up.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: No more promises.
by ebasconp on Thu 16th Aug 2007 16:20 UTC in reply to "RE: No more promises."
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

Why?

AROS is not a commercial project sponsored by some giant corporation or something like that!

AROS is the best community project oriented to replace and continue the work left by AmigaOS.

Reply Score: 2

Keep the momentum going.
by LordLeif on Wed 15th Aug 2007 22:41 UTC
LordLeif
Member since:
2007-08-09

The Amiga will contiune to live i my, and probably many others, mind, as a way things should be done OS-wise.
To manage an OS a straight and logically simple way was fun and gave something back to me as a user.

The idea of revive the Amiga once again may seem like beating on a dead horse. But we who were there, and saw the soul in a piece of chpis, plastics and metall, will appreciate the effort.

As good as UNIX and clones have gotten, that special feeling AmigaOS gave just don't showing. Not even in (what I think) the best OS today, OS X.

So, if only for the sake of warming our hearts:
Keep the momentum going.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Keep the momentum going.
by StephenBeDoper on Thu 16th Aug 2007 20:50 UTC in reply to "Keep the momentum going."
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

And if nothing else, interesting developments in fringe OSes have a way eventually making their way into the more mainstream OSes. I would go so far as to suggest that experimentation on the fringes is one of the main driving forces behind progress in mainstream OSes. Really, how many truly-original ideas have come out of Microsoft or Apple in the last decade? Not many that I can count - most of the "new stuff" is basically just implementations of ideas/functionality that have been present in less-mainstream OSes for decades.

The more mainstream an operating system becomes, the less freedom its developers have to experiment. Even projects that don't "take over the world" can still be of great value via the introduction of new ideas. To pick something completely-unrelated to computers, I think Dadaism is a perfect example - other than art geeks, no one really reminisces about the "great masters of Dada" today. Yet without the free-wheeling experimentation of Dadaist movement, styles like impressionism probably never would have been developed.

Reply Score: 3

Sweet!
by DevL on Wed 15th Aug 2007 22:48 UTC
DevL
Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm looking forward to trying out an early alpha release in 2208!

Reply Score: 2

Since when AmigaOS 4.0 was released?
by truckweb on Wed 15th Aug 2007 22:52 UTC
truckweb
Member since:
2005-07-06

In a NON Beta form? 4.0 is not even really out with good hardware support and they are talking about v5 ?

Wow, keep up the good vaporware work guys!

It's Duke Nukem allright....


Somebody should make a x86 Atari SuperMultiTOS to run old and new ATARI ST/MEGA/TT applications. Lets put in a better 3D GUI, almost protected memory, MIDI support using Creative X-FI, ..... Oh, sorry, it's dead...

Reply Score: 2

dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

Actually Amiga OS 4 has been out in final form for quite a while and works fine with most hardware. But - as you point out - there is hardly any A1's to find. And the other Amiga-compatible PC's will probably never be released.

AmigaOS 4+1 is probably vaporware. But AmigaOS4 is not. The software is there - it's the hardware which is missing.

Reply Score: 6

leech Member since:
2006-01-10

Someone kind of already did that with the Atari ST. Aranym. Check it out at http://www.aranym.org

The latest version even supports true type fonts, networking, etc. Granted it's a virtual machine, but if I recall, there was a live distribution for it that would just boot straight into it like an Atari ST/TT/Falcon.

More on topic, the weird thing is, before I even saw this latest news on the Amiga, I had a dream that I went into a store and they had both an Amiga and a 520 ST for sale, that looked brand new, but they were only selling them for $50 bucks. How geeky is that? Well, guess it's as close to a wet dream as I've had in a long time ;)

Reply Score: 2

AmigaRobbo Member since:
2005-11-15

But which one did you buy?

Personally, as a AOS4 user, I'd like to see it move forward, I want things like sandboxing, and more robust memory protection, I don't think that too unresonable is it?

Also although programs can take out the OS, it can reboot faster than Windows will bring up the task manager to shut down the crashed program. I'm not saying that make it alright, just saying that's all...

Reply Score: 1

leech Member since:
2006-01-10

The Amiga 500 of course, I already have a 1040ST, Mega STe and TT030 ;)

Always was jealous of the Amiga's OS. I would get a new Amiga if some hardware was released for it!

Reply Score: 3

The title of the news it is misleading
by Raffaele on Wed 15th Aug 2007 23:56 UTC
Raffaele
Member since:
2005-11-12

The title of the news it is misleading...

It emphasizes that next wannabe OS 4+1, or +2 or whatever else, will run AmigaOS applications in a virtual environment.

While the core of the news it is another:

New AmigaOS Exec Kernel SG (Second Generation) it is ready for virtualization, protected Memory, etc., but due to old Amiga 68xxx and old AmigaPPC apps, which lacks of protected memory capabilities, it can't be used at its best.

So next AmigaOS will include a Sandbox, with its own memory addess space.

In ths sandbox the new OS will run the old Kernel and old Amiga Apps.

Reply Score: 4

About new AmigaOS and Amiga sites
by freaks on Thu 16th Aug 2007 07:16 UTC
freaks
Member since:
2006-02-17

(cross posting from amigans.net)



For the record, since this thread was linked on osnews.com too, and i'm not allowed to speak my mind or any objective criticisms on amigans.net and amigaworld.net (where i was told "there's no such thing as freedom of speech here" while being heavily moderated) let me say this:

My posts on theses sites were edited by moderators, content removed, changed, and some of my posts were even completly deleted, as if they never existed at all.

This isn't right. my posts didn't contained any insults, threats, spam , i didn't swear either or anything that deserved such heavy moderation.

It's like countries under dictatorship. only what please the ppl controlling the media is allowed to be said.
and it look like what i said didn't pleased at all.
what was the content you might ask ?

it was things like this:


- AmigaOS4 don't have any form of protection from it's own tasks (any badly behaving app can kill the whole system, which is what happen frequently..means *a lot*)
- doesn't have utf8 support
- lots of documents cannot be viewed or edited (no support for this or that format).
- there's no up to date and css capable browser
- no large file support
- it use an old (1993) outdated API, thus terribly limitating
- the moderation on amiga sites is way too strong. anything that doesn't please get deleted or edited without your consent.


It's up to you (OS4 devs and Amiga sites moderators) to change theses facts and thus make Amiga world a more interesting place for potential new users.

And in case this post gets edited or deleted, i'm cross posting it to osnews.

i told you outside world is watching.. I didn't linked this thread to OSNews. but there's a good counter part to this .. this outside world being watching means there's still interest. think about what you could to make this OS more appealing and Amiga forums less ghestappo-like and you might at last interest new users.


And by the way, most of this is also valid for Morphos as well.

Reply Score: 2

corto Member since:
2005-08-30

I don't understand why a post in an Amiga forum comes here like an official announcement about a major step of the OS.

@freaks

- lots of crashs ? Not here. Stop using old and/or buggy apps. Many new programs have been created.
- lots of documents are not supported ? Even Word files can be managed thanks to AbiWord.
- the API is outdated and in fact, low-level. There are additionnal libraries but some high-level functions miss
- about moderation ... it is necessary to avoid pollution. Everyone knows how it is easy to start trolling or giving unrealistic arguments in forums.

In fact, the major issue is the lack of a modern browser.

Reply Score: 2

freaks Member since:
2006-02-17

what about memory protection and utf8 support for example?
don't you think they are major issues too?

especialy memory protection. any badly behaving program can trash the whole system. that's what happen.. a lot!
countless crashs and reboot.
saying it's stable on your computer is simply not true.

everybody knows even best programs aren't 100% bug free.
and when the OS cannot manage programs thrashing memory or killing OS resources because of bugs or intentionnal malicious code, what happen is crash, reboot and total insecurity.

for example yesterday night i tryed latest Scalos desktop replacement. agreed it's still beta software, but since there isn't any form of protection in the system, i ended up crashing and rebooting something like 30 times in 4 hours time. this is inacceptable in 2007 for an operating system to let this happen.

if what i said wasn't true, why on earth do you think official OS4 development team are planning implementing memory protection in a future OS update at all ?

of course it's true. you cannot expect any user to select only good behaving applications and hope and pray
everything will go smooth. you cannot expect developpers to make 100% bug-free programs .. this is ridiculous.

i'm eagerly waiting for memory protection to be implemented in Amiga system

Edited 2007-08-16 08:45

Reply Score: 1

Raffaele Member since:
2005-11-12

Mr Freaks wrote:

[quote]


what about memory protection and utf8 support for example?
don't you think they are major issues too?

[/quote]

Maybe you didn't noticed it but AmigaOS 4.0 HAS already memory protection...

BUT

...Old programs of Amiga can't support this feature.


So it is required that the OS design will move ahead.


And here came these news we are talking in this thread!

The new AmigaOS 4.0 Kernel with virtualization and protected memory will run as main OS...

...and old Kernel and old apps, will run into a sandbox with its own address space.


-----


Regarding UTF:

It is supported by single programs of Amiga. Some support it and some others no...

(IBrowse 2.4 browser for example supports UTF...

Programs like JKFF allows old classic Amiga to support and edit texts in UTF, but actual Notepad of OS 4.0 can't be used with JKFF...

http://www.phoenix-c.or.jp/~olfa/jkff/index.html

Support of UTF for entire AmigaOS will come in the future.

The Hyperion team decided to support first all modern features of the OS like Protected Memory, a core feature which absence of, it was really a trouble.

With the incoming of final version of OS 4.0, and its first update last july 2007, now they are free to focus on other minor problems and absence of other features like UTF.

-----


Regarding censorship on Amiga sites:

The Amigans site it is a very private club.

You can't enter there if you don't proof you have an AmigaONE computer.

How did you register on that site if you own no modern AmigaONE machine?????

They hate all discussion except those regarding AmigaOS and AmigaoNE computer.

For example, if you made the mistake to tell a single line about its Amiga competitor (MorphOS), you will be censored, or banned.

They are really zealots.

-----

Regarding Amigaworld.net, in the past there was also this hatred about MorphOS, so even some threads of mine about MorphOS were deleted, and comments edited.

Fortunately now Amigaorld it is more open to other solutions and different platform than OFFICIAL AmigaOS.

But as I read your previous posts, and you demonstrated you ignored completely that AmigaOS has ALREADY Protected memory, and judging from the style of your comments, it seems to me that you entered this discussion like an elephant in a crystal & glasses shop shouting:

«HEY! Where is Protected memory that is a modern feature?»

(Sorry, but this is the impression you gave to me...)

Then... if youm made the same on Amiga sites, showing you knows nothing of Amiga, and entered a discussion shouting, then the less it could happen to you it is to get your post deleted, because you seems acting like a troll.

Next time learn well about the AmigaOS matter, and try to enter in a discussion with a certain degree of style so you will avoid being moderated without a reason...

Reply Score: 1

freaks Member since:
2006-02-17

@Raffaele

first you're wrong about JKFF .
JKFF is a program (system patch) to be able to display and input Japanese on Amiga. i know this well, cause i live in Japan, and helped the Morphos port to happen too, cause i live in Japan and need Japanese support.
Unfortunatly this program doesn't work on OS4 because of API changes Hyperion did. but i'm glad they did.
the OS need to evolve. it won't go anywere sticking to the old 3.x API.. so JKFF can be used from OS1.3 to OS3.9 and morphos too. you can test it, if you understand Japanese.


Then about memory protection on OS4.
OS4 only have partial memory protection so far (not full MP)
it isn't enough to prevent system crashs.
(see my ealier post about when i tested Scalos for example..)


Regarding me posting on Amigans.net:
i own an AmigaOne XE (G4 model) So i think i fit well in the picture ;)
in the past i had a Pegasos with Morphos too, but i sold it.. this is another topic. but suffice to say i didn't liked morphos devs and morphos itself. it's even more sticking to the old Amiga OS3.x API from 1993 than OS4 does. for my point of view morphos stagnate instead of moving foward.

and for the record i owned many Amiga , mainly an A1200 and an A4000 both with PPC accelerator and gfx cards.
i have now an AmigaOne with OS4 and had a pegasos too.
i know quite well what i'm talking about thanks ;)

the problem isn't Scalos crashing. it's beta software.
the problem is when Scalos crash, the whole system freeze , crash or reboot.. it bring down the whole machine ;)

if there was MP, then OS4 would kill the badly behaving app *before* it could endanger the whole OS ..

Any other program can take the whole system down.
IBrowse, does it quite well too , in fact,
the OS itself crash on it's own too.
moving some files around , copying, deleting.. %...%.. and ooops.. reboot

Edited 2007-08-16 10:46

Reply Score: 0

Raffaele Member since:
2005-11-12

@ Freaks,

[quote]


first you're wrong about JKFF .
JKFF is a program (system patch) to be able to display and input Japanese on Amiga. i know this well, cause i live in Japan, and helped the Morphos port to happen too, cause i live in Japan and need Japanese support.
Unfortunatly this program doesn't work on OS4 because of API changes Hyperion did. but i'm glad they did.
the OS need to evolve. it won't go anywere sticking to the old 3.x API..

[quote]

Please, Read again what I said...

I said: The AmigaOS hae no UTF8 support...

BUT

There are SINGLE PROGRAMS which support UTF8

AND

Amongst these programs which support UTF8 there are IBrowse 2.4, JKFF, etc., etc., etc...

If you read CAREFULLY what I said...

IN FACTS I said that unfortunately Notepad of OS4.0 DOES NOT SUPPORT JKFF program (system patch)...

Reply Score: 1

Raffaele Member since:
2005-11-12

Mr. Freaks wrote:

[quote]


for example yesterday night i tryed latest Scalos desktop replacement. agreed it's still beta software, but since there isn't any form of protection in the system, i ended up crashing and rebooting something like 30 times in 4 hours time. this is inacceptable in 2007 for an operating system to let this happen.

[/quote]

What is your system configuration?

What are the programs you have installed, and the libraries revision numbers?

With classic Amigas, you can made easily a new partition, and install a base AmigaOS on it.

Enter the BOOTMENU and exclude all different partition, except the one in which you want to install ScalOS.

Then try to install Scalos on the minimal system you just realized and booted from exclusively.

If the installation crashes again on this minimal system, so it is ScalOS that it is bugged.

If the installation of ScalOS performs successfully, then you must find the programs that entered in conflict with Scalos on your main installation...

And in the end, remember that install new programs on AmigaOS or remove it, then it is far more easier than in other systems!

In facts you can spot immediately by view, what are the new directories added, the new libraries into LIBS:, and the modifications to Startup-Sequence file, and delete it by hand.

So even if ScalOS crashes, you can remove it immediately.

And it is the same if you want to change Startup-sequence and exclude some libraries from loading at boot...

It requires only that you put (copy) new libraries taken from Aminet in a single directory and do typing some ASSIGN command in textual Shell..

Assign Libs: dh0:new_libraries_directory

Assigns the logical path for the OS to find where system libraries are located, and replaces it with the path to the new libraries directory.

It is not a permantent change, and you can made experiments if the problems to ScalOS are the old system libraries.

Again, you can verify if ScalOS enters in conflict with other programs, by editing any single program entry and excluding it from boot (Startup-Sequence file).

In startup-sequence you can UNCHECK a line by typing a semicolon ";" preceding it.


[the program it is loaded]

DH0:Utilities/AmigaDOCk


[the program it is not loaded]

; DH0:Utilities/AmigaDOCk



Try it alternate, on any single program you load at startup...


Good luck!


P.S.: Aminet site

http://www.aminet.net

Edited 2007-08-16 10:13

Reply Score: 1

ARGH!
by sardaukar on Thu 16th Aug 2007 09:00 UTC
sardaukar
Member since:
2006-05-09

Give me the hardware to run this or just go away! I'm sick of AmigaOS 4 posts...

Reply Score: 4

Amiga
by freaks on Thu 16th Aug 2007 11:18 UTC
freaks
Member since:
2006-02-17

That's it, i got banned. all my post on Amigans.net got deleted and this is what's displayed instead:

---------
This user has been permanently suspended, for these reasons:

- Failing to understand the phrase "It's not what you are saying, it's how you say it"

- Lying about why (s)he was moderated.

- Continously ignoring the advice given from moderators.
----------


nice.. someone interested in joining Amiga community?
thinking about getting an Amiga?
first you can't, since no hardware is available.
but if you manage to find second hand AmigaOne, here how you'll get treated when discussing OS features or problems on forums.

Remember, never say it's outdated , or it xyz feature should get implemented, even if this xyz feature is planned for later update ;)
Never discuss moderators behavior.. they're now saying i'm a liar ;)

Anyway i kept a local copy here:

http://amifreak.free.fr/Amigans/

click on viewtopic * .php.html files.

just in case some ppl memory need to be refreshed if accidentaly "forgeting" how it really happened.

Edited 2007-08-16 11:20

Reply Score: 1

RE: Amiga
by Soulbender on Thu 16th Aug 2007 11:51 UTC in reply to "Amiga"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

That's it, i got banned.


Welcome to the Internet, enjoy your stay. Seriously, what is this even doing on OSNews?
Besides, everyone knows the rapid, reality-defying tendencies of the Amiga crowd.

nice.. someone interested in joining Amiga community?"

No.

thinking about getting an Amiga?

No.

Edited 2007-08-16 11:53

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Amiga
by freaks on Thu 16th Aug 2007 12:38 UTC in reply to "RE: Amiga"
freaks Member since:
2006-02-17

" Seriously, what is this even doing on OSNews? "


It's about news and stuffs, concerning OSes right?
so that's why it's here. To let ppl know that Amiga didn't evolve much since 1993, to let them know it have this and that problems.. such as no css capable browser, no utf8 and no MP, and that's it's extremly flaky, crash prone.. things like that, and when you try to discuss it on Amiga public forums you get banned.

It's an insider view of AmigaOS, you get it for free, and you can make up your mind about Amiga, in case you would want to know more about Amiga, or try to buy one.
And it's objective.. not like other "official" reviews that says Amiga rules and you should buy one right now.

I could write a full review with tests, screenshots and details if asked.

that's what "this" is doing on OSNews.
If you're not interested you might want to choose to read other news items and other users comments.

like, i'm not interested in windows news and it's users comments ..but i don't ask why it's here. it's here because it news and stuffs about OSes i guess..

Edited 2007-08-16 12:39

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Amiga
by Soulbender on Thu 16th Aug 2007 13:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Amiga"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"It's about news and stuffs, concerning OSes right? "

Actually, I didnt mean your opinions on Amiga and it's problems, but the "I got banned" part.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Amiga
by freaks on Thu 16th Aug 2007 15:26 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Amiga"
freaks Member since:
2006-02-17

@soulbender

..the "I got banned" part.

yes. that's part of the amiga experience it seems.

Amiga have a problem, about using and outdated API, but you cannot speak about it without getting banned.

I can't see things getting anybetter soon if ppl get banned from forum like this. Amiga has a small community of users. if you use Amiga you will need to get in touch with other amigans, asking for tips and tricks and howtos. and when trying to talk with them about problems you see, you might just get banned.. well not at first, first you get your posts censured and edited .. maybe deleted.. and if you try to explain, argue or protest, you get banned.

that's part of the amiga experience it seems, it's not about only me. lots of users got their post edited or deleted because their posts didn't please or could darken the OS image or i dunno what..

when using alternative OS you have to speak a bit about the "user experience i think. and that include the support and help you get on the forums.

like, if you buy a product, and there's a problem,
when you call for support if the man on the other side of the line tell you he doesn't know what you're speaking about, and the product does not have any problem and he won't answer your call anymore, would you find that normal ?

or in going in supermarket and being told what to buy and how to buy and if you protest being thrown out of the store.

well that's what happened. they thrown an user out, (me) cause i refused to accept the official version like "amiga rules everybody should buy it have not problems"

it have a problem and i really can't see why users should get banned from forum because they want to speak about thoses problems with other users and devs if they feel like answering. no one force them to post in a thread i would create ...

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Amiga
by Raffaele on Thu 16th Aug 2007 16:01 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Amiga"
Raffaele Member since:
2005-11-12

Freaks wrote:

[quote]


@soulbender

>>>..the "I got banned" part.

yes. that's part of the amiga experience it seems.

Amiga have a problem, about using and outdated API, but you cannot speak about it without getting banned.

[/quote]

I have morphOS and I pointed many and many times of the things that AmigaOS and MorphOS lacks of, but I never got banned...

Sometimes I got 2 or 3 of my threads deleted, but none banned me.

Maybe it is the way I pointed the problems of Amiga.

I only twice used offensive language but only on Amiga Italian threads and only because I was offended first by the other person.

I never started a flame...

Also I never NEVER repeat the threads twice or three times...

This to avoid accusation of being OBSESSIVE...


[quote]

KFF is a program (system patch) to be able to display and input Japanese on Amiga. i know this well, cause i live in Japan, and helped the Morphos port to happen too, cause i live in Japan and need Japanese support.

[/quote]

Ah, the amigan from japan!

If I remember well who you are, you pointed always, and alwyays on Amiga threads on the same problem...

UTF8 support...

That's it... to many times you repeated always the same...

Don't you believe that you started being OBSESSIVE?

The Amiga community it is very small and we ALL know about the KNOWN PROBLEMS and LACKS of Amiga...

If we starting whining every day on the same points (that are known by everyone in the community), this fact got people tired of speaking ALWAYS about the same arguments, because these problems are common and widely known...

That is why you got banned, my friend...

Edited 2007-08-16 16:18

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Amiga
by Raffaele on Thu 16th Aug 2007 15:51 UTC in reply to "RE: Amiga"
Raffaele Member since:
2005-11-12

Soulblender wrote:

[quote]


Freaks> That's it, i got banned.

Welcome to the Internet, enjoy your stay. Seriously, what is this even doing on OSNews?
Besides, everyone knows the rapid, reality-defying tendencies of the Amiga crowd.

>nice.. someone interested in joining Amiga community?"
No.

>thinking about getting an Amiga?
No.


You are not interested in joining Amiga community, you are not interested in purchasing an Amiga...

So Why the hell are you trolling, commenting as a stupid on this Amiga related thread, while there are more interesting thread on OSNews aimed at the platforms you love that are waiting for your priceless presence?

Are you not interested in Amiga? So don't partecipate Amiga threads and don't bother us anymore...

Reply Score: 1

v RE: Amiga
by bthylafh on Thu 16th Aug 2007 13:56 UTC in reply to "Amiga"
RE: Amiga
by BluenoseJake on Thu 16th Aug 2007 17:13 UTC in reply to "Amiga"
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

Talk about offtopic, who cares if you got banned on an entirely different forum?

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Amiga
by freaks on Thu 16th Aug 2007 17:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Amiga"
freaks Member since:
2006-02-17

@BluenoseJake

can you read the previous post i made please ? i answered that question already.. why it matters.. if ppl want to get into Amiga they'll encounter that kind of problem too.

not that i care that much, i have this AmigaOne but it's not my primary machine, i use linux 99% of the time.
I bought that AmigaOne for fun, to follow evolution of the OS.. which isn't happening much anyway. So i started inquiering aboout it and it all started.

@ __xoram__
i understand what you say, and it's true.
but inquiring about memory support already gets ppl moderated (in most case) and banned (in my case).
now if we ask for both multiuser and MP in the same time i think they'll go berserk ;)


@rafaelle

yes it's true it's not the first time i inquiered about utf8 support and MP status on Amiga. i ask time to time, and i'm not the only one. same for MP. this is a recurent debate. which is not progressing much.
can't see it happening anytime soon, unfortunately.

and as long as thoses aren't implemented that AmigaOne is almost useless for me.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Amiga
by BluenoseJake on Thu 16th Aug 2007 22:38 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Amiga"
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

"can you read the previous post i made please ? i answered that question already.. why it matters.. if ppl want to get into Amiga they'll encounter that kind of problem too. "

I read your answer to that post, and still don't see the relevance.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Amiga
by StephenBeDoper on Thu 16th Aug 2007 21:01 UTC in reply to "Amiga"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

That's it, i got banned.


You'll probably find OSNews much more to your liking, then. Perhaps you can join forces with the fellow who constantly harps about kernel bugs in Haiku, or the guy who used to make endless posts about ZETA's legality. Combined with Moulineuf's "BSD is teh EVIL" hobby-horse, I'm sure you'll be unstoppable.

Reply Score: 3

memory protection
by losethos on Thu 16th Aug 2007 11:49 UTC
losethos
Member since:
2007-08-15

If it's not a mainframe with multi-users and reboots fast, what does it matter if it crashes?

Reply Score: 0

RE: memory protection
by gdanko on Fri 17th Aug 2007 15:25 UTC in reply to "memory protection"
gdanko Member since:
2005-07-15

If it's not a mainframe with multi-users and reboots fast, what does it matter if it crashes?

It matters if you are typing a term paper for school.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: memory protection
by losethos on Fri 17th Aug 2007 22:39 UTC in reply to "RE: memory protection"
losethos Member since:
2007-08-15

How often does a task crash these days? My word processor never crashes. The risk would be running an untrusted program, while you're supposed to be working on your paper;-) Yeah, you wouldn't have the peace of mind, but reality is most things don't crash.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: memory protection
by Raffaele on Sun 19th Aug 2007 10:49 UTC in reply to "RE: memory protection"
Raffaele Member since:
2005-11-12

Mr. gdanko wrote:

[quote]


>>>If it's not a mainframe with multi-users and reboots fast, what does it matter if it crashes?

It matters if you are typing a term paper for school.

[/quote]

Amiga wordprocessors were old but are already built in recent Amiga ages 1992/1996 when programmers learned to take care not to create memory hits with their applications.

So normal and productivity programs does not hit memory then crash...

Only if you add to AmigaOS boot sequence some strange programs hacks, or wannabe add-ons, with no warranty, then you are doomed for some unwanted and sudden crashes.

And remember that if you are typing term paper for school, then it exists also AUTOSAVE feature of wordprocessor, every n-th minutes...

Yes... even Amiga wordprocessors have autosave...

How advanced... :-P

Reply Score: 1

AmigaOS 4.0 is released
by aliquis on Thu 16th Aug 2007 13:23 UTC
aliquis
Member since:
2005-07-23

And it's way more complete when it was ever supposed to be back in the days.

But there doesn't exist any new hardware for it, but atleast it runs on the old AmigaOnes.

I would have wished that everyone had got Pegasos instead and just killed Amiga.

Reply Score: 1

hm..
by __xodam__ on Thu 16th Aug 2007 14:32 UTC
__xodam__
Member since:
2007-04-06

I dont know why people think full MP will stop malware as malware will penetrate core OS files more happily then in-memory strucures, how would full MP stop that from happening ?
It's the combination of full memory protection _and_ user domain (aka multi-user) based resource management subsytems that will give you stability _and_ protection.

Reply Score: 1

RE: hm..
by freaks on Thu 16th Aug 2007 15:29 UTC in reply to "hm.."
freaks Member since:
2006-02-17

@ __xodam__


maybe yes, but there's not malware on Amiga.
no virus either.. too few users for that.

so the only malware you get is normal applications you use everyday that write in memory where they shouldn't thus crashing the OS. full MP would prevent that. that would be a good first step toward stability.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: hm..
by __xodam__ on Thu 16th Aug 2007 16:49 UTC in reply to "RE: hm.."
__xodam__ Member since:
2007-04-06

Thing is if everyone reasoning like that thinking they could therefore use it and be sure there are no security issues then over time there could be a considerable amount of users. If that happens I'm afraid there will be malware given there is no security implemented because there would (should ?!) not be many users on the platform...

See, you lock your door because of the _possibility_ of a thief robbing your home and not because it _frequently happens_.

Reply Score: 1

Amiga curse!!!
by Fransexy on Thu 16th Aug 2007 18:31 UTC
Fransexy
Member since:
2005-07-29

It seems that the amiga curse also touched this site, every Amiga related thread, no matter where is posted, ends with flame wars and insults


People, if you don´t like AmigaOS, fine, but there are people that like it, there are programmers that want to develop it and spend their time and efforts, what´s wrong with this? tastes and options are the juice of the life

Reply Score: 2

RE: Amiga curse!!!
by freaks on Thu 16th Aug 2007 19:26 UTC in reply to "Amiga curse!!!"
freaks Member since:
2006-02-17

curse indeed.
there's there law suit going on too. hyperion might not be allowed to use the name AmigaOS and continue developmment of OS4,
maybe everyone should go for AROS.
it seems there's not much flames or law suit around it..

but there's no MP nor uft8 support either..

Reply Score: 1

Brainwashed
by losethos on Fri 17th Aug 2007 08:12 UTC
losethos
Member since:
2007-08-15

The sad truth is, people are brainwashed. I home computer is a toy, not a multiuser mainframe where one person's actions affect others. Does virtual machine crap strike you as insane mainframe crap being put into home computers? Wouldn't you rather have twice as many cores instead of virtual memory, memory protections, privilege levels, yada, yada yada. I'll get banned, but you guys are brainwashed and pathetic. I wish Commodore had a modern FAB and could make a kick-ass CPU without all that crap and leave y'all in the dust with your friggin mainframe stuff.

Reply Score: 0

RE: Brainwashed, yes you
by __xodam__ on Fri 17th Aug 2007 10:55 UTC in reply to "Brainwashed"
__xodam__ Member since:
2007-04-06

Right!

You are saying that the fact that someone (even a family member) can, maybe, login but not..

1. touch/view my files
2. intall malware
3. screw up core OS files itself (may render OS misfunctioning/unbootable etc)
4. automatically give any process rights to do any of the above three.

..is a a wish and desire of a user being brainwashed ?
Do the actions of a user that may do any of the three above (fourth being auomatimatic) not affect other users (or the OS itself) ? how is that ?

Reply Score: 1

mutliuser
by losethos on Fri 17th Aug 2007 08:22 UTC
losethos
Member since:
2007-08-15

multiuser!=multitasking. I didn't say no multitasking.

Reply Score: 1

crashes
by losethos on Fri 17th Aug 2007 09:40 UTC
losethos
Member since:
2007-08-15

In Windows, browsing the Internet, how often do you crash a task? If you're not crashing tasks, it shows you're not using memory protection. Think about it. If you don't have misbehaving tasks, you're not using memory protection. Well written programs would be fine without memory protection. For me, it's rare I crash a task, but I don't do much except browse the internet. Suppose you didn't have memory protection. The only difference would be your whole computer would crash on those rare instances when a task crashes.

The right thing to do would be simplify CPU's and make them cheaper instead of the same transistor count. Yields would go up. I know cache takes a lot of real estate on CPUs so I'm not certain how much of a difference it would make.

Reply Score: 0

RE: crashes
by __xodam__ on Fri 17th Aug 2007 11:03 UTC in reply to "crashes"
__xodam__ Member since:
2007-04-06

but I don't do much except browse the internet.


Is that a confession ?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: crashes
by losethos on Fri 17th Aug 2007 12:24 UTC in reply to "RE: crashes"
losethos Member since:
2007-08-15

I'm prudent and know better than to install malware on my computer. I don't view porn... which is probably where 90% malware comes from.

The other guy mentioned family members... are you saying your family members access your computer at the same time, or do you mean different login accounts. If they actually did access at the same time from a different computer in the house and you crashed it, how bad would that be? I guess if you have a large family, it might be a major problem ;-)

Instead of making a titanic which won't crash, why not learn how to reformat and reinstall and back things-up? You have much more peace of mind.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: crashes
by __xodam__ on Fri 17th Aug 2007 13:00 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: crashes"
__xodam__ Member since:
2007-04-06

Good for you, not every person does now security inside and out. even if they did how would they know that my latest app they just installed does not contain a trojan or two, and since their OS is not multi-user.. well poor user I guess. And malware comes from everywhere and not just porn. By the way why did you think I was referring to porn ?!

Who's the other guy ? and why do you ask me about my family instead of the other guy ?

I suppose you "have much more peace of mind" picking up the remnants of a devastated OS guite frequently, too bad you cannot actually see "guru meditation.." when that happens, now that would be complete.

Reply Score: 1

touch/view your files
by losethos on Fri 17th Aug 2007 12:55 UTC
losethos
Member since:
2007-08-15

Password encrypt your finances or whatever from your kids. Lets talk about real families and not odd-ball special cases which do not represent the majority of households. I have no idea, but I wouldn't be surprised if most family computers had one login.

I tend to believe if you get malware you did something to deserve it... being stupid if nothing else.

Hard drives can fail, so everyone should do back-ups. I'm not opposed to on-line off-site backups done by professionals. I like the idea of putting data on a net computer, backed-up by professionals, perhaps with a nifty automatic reinstall feature.

Professionals back things up and real professionals even do off-site backups.

Reply Score: 0

RE: touch/view your files
by __xodam__ on Fri 17th Aug 2007 13:11 UTC in reply to "touch/view your files"
__xodam__ Member since:
2007-04-06

So the home computer is a toy, but one that needs a professonal, should the normal user then hire a professional for his/her latest toy ?

lol

Reply Score: 1

real families
by losethos on Fri 17th Aug 2007 13:22 UTC
losethos
Member since:
2007-08-15

Kids often have their own computers, but not always. If they're cheaper, maybe they could have them.

Reply Score: 0

pathetic
by losethos on Fri 17th Aug 2007 22:49 UTC
losethos
Member since:
2007-08-15

I keep getting voted down. You guys are pathetic. I say again--if your tasks aren't crashing, you don't need memory protection. If your word processor crashes, it doesn't matter if you have memory protection or not.

Reply Score: 1

RE: pathetic
by Raffaele on Sun 19th Aug 2007 11:00 UTC in reply to "pathetic"
Raffaele Member since:
2005-11-12

Mr. losethos wrote:

[quote]


I keep getting voted down. You guys are pathetic. I say again--if your tasks aren't crashing, you don't need memory protection. If your word processor crashes, it doesn't matter if you have memory protection or not.

[quote]

I agree... You are right. If you are working on a program and it crashes, no matter the entire OS will stay safe...

The OS with memory protection it will remain up and safe, but the program you were working on, if it chrashes, then it is down, and its memory and the vectors it allocated, then were forced free for further usage...

The job you were working on, was lost irrimediably, except IF the program you were using owns autosave feature AND perhaps the autosave had to be turned on (maybe autosave must set up on every 10/15 minutes... Or maybe, it is better to had it set always to every 10 mins!) :-D

Edited 2007-08-19 11:04

Reply Score: 1

deserved it
by losethos on Sat 18th Aug 2007 00:08 UTC
losethos
Member since:
2007-08-15

If you computer crashes while you're working on your term paper, you deserved it. It was probably because you stopped and played games ;-) Your word processor is not likely to crash. Your browser, maybe. You were probably plagerizing anyway. Kids these days--porn and plagerizing.

Reply Score: 0

RE: deserved it
by __xodam__ on Sat 18th Aug 2007 10:00 UTC in reply to "deserved it"
__xodam__ Member since:
2007-04-06

Whatever troll!

Reply Score: 1

SamuraiCrow
Member since:
2005-11-19

There are Sam440EP computers available but they can only run Crux Linux for now. Hopefully, when the lawsuit is over, we will be able to run AmigaOS 4.0 on it.

Reply Score: 2