Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 29th Aug 2007 00:16 UTC, submitted by irbis
Multimedia, AV "With the release of Windows Vista, using your PC to watch and record TV has become a whole lot easier. Now, for the first time, Windows Media Center comes bundled with Home Premium and Ultimate versions of the standard Desktop operating system. However, Vista is pricey, and its form and function are of course dictated by Microsoft. If you want full control over your Home Theater PC, and don't want to have to pay Microsoft for it, then Linux is a more than capable alternative base for building a system of your own."
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Call me when everything is legit on Linux
by stephanem on Wed 29th Aug 2007 00:44 UTC
stephanem
Member since:
2006-01-11

In the mean time, you want people to obey GPL, then you better start obeying MP3, DVDCSS, AACS and AC3 licenses.

I don't see anybody ponying up money to purchase "Real" licenses and provide them to the Linux Media Center users.

Reply Score: 2

tristan Member since:
2006-02-01

In the mean time, you want people to obey GPL, then you better start obeying MP3, DVDCSS, AACS and AC3 licenses.

I don't see anybody ponying up money to purchase "Real" licenses and provide them to the Linux Media Center users


1) Software patents (and thus the requirement to purchase licences for those patents) aren't recognised in large parts of the world

2) For those unfortunate places where they are, a combination of http://shop.fluendo.com and any GStreamer-based media player (e.g. Elisa) should keep you happy.

Reply Score: 10

google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

1) Software patents (and thus the requirement to purchase licences for those patents) aren't recognised in large parts of the world


if you use the package w32codecs on your system, you are violating a liscence agreement, I don't care where you live. It is a redistribution of dlls copied from commercial programs, violating several liscence restrictions. There are other options which are legal however, such as ffmpeg, or vlc.

DeCSS is legal in a few places (like sweden), but it illegal in most countries, not because of how it cracks encryption, but because of the implicit agreement you agree to when you buy a commercial DVD.

If you live in america, or a country with strong trade relations with america, there is only one option for DVD playback on linux, and that is LDVD.

Last point, to the best of my knowledge there is no option, legal or otherwise to play HD content on linux, and due to insane DRM requirements that the movie industry is putting on all HD playback, I doubt we will ever see anything legal in that department.

Just because you live in the EU, doesn't make you exempt from the DVD stuff, it just makes you exempt from the mp3 stuff.

Reply Score: 2

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

if you use the package w32codecs on your system, you are violating a liscence agreement, I don't care where you live. It is a redistribution of dlls copied from commercial programs, violating several liscence restrictions. There are other options which are legal however, such as ffmpeg, or vlc.

I am in no way a lawyer or such, but here in Finland there was a case a few years back that the judge stated that any such license agreement where you have to click on Yes/No button are not valid in Finland. He stated clearly that such agreements are valid only if made face-to-face by the client and a representative of the corporation selling the software. So, I might be wrong, but I assume using w32codecs in Finland is legal.

Reply Score: 1

4front Member since:
2005-09-19

> any such license agreement where you have to click on Yes/No button are not valid in Finland.


Looks to me that GPL is automatically null and void because there's nothing to sign and all you are doing is clicking yes to accept GPL when isntalling any Linux distro.

Reply Score: 1

archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

You are confusing EULA (end-user license agreements) with copyright licenses.

The first is a license to *use* the software, which may not be enforceable in *most* countries - in fact, Microsoft and others have gone out of their way *not* to bring any case involving EULAs to court, on fears that EULAs might be declared null and void altogether.

The second concerns *redistribution* of the software. You do not in fact have to read or agree with the GPL to use the software. You must, however, agree with the GPL (and abide by it) if you redistribute the software, or you will be in violation of copyright law.

Considering that the GPL is an *extension* of rights usually granted by copyright law, making it null and void would only restrict you further, and not give you any additional rights.

Reply Score: 4

Almafeta Member since:
2007-02-22

1) Software patents (and thus the requirement to purchase licences for those patents) aren't recognised in large parts of the world


By 'large parts of the world,' I think you mean 'bloggers.'

Reply Score: 2

archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

No, he means "large parts of the world." Software patents are indeed invalid in many countries.

Reply Score: 4

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

stephanem,

The real problem is that the whole patent system is screwed. How can we have a decent conversation on patent licensing when things are so frecked up?

But as things stand, and speaking as a Linux advocate, you have a good point.

It's a mess. Distros do need to make sure that licensing is in order. Grass roots projects need to either avoid shipping patented codecs or pass the liability on to the end user, as MollyC (Molly Cieslinski?) has pointed out, regarding VLC, on a number of occasions.

Messy, messy, messy.

But this industry is always in a bit of a mess, isn't it? Greed prevails over the general welfare... again. ;-)

Edited 2007-08-29 01:19

Reply Score: 5

BSDfan Member since:
2007-03-14

Again, software patents are some crazy ass American concept.

Countries, such as my own.. are free from such nonsense.

Thus, I consider your post null and void. ;-)

Reply Score: 6

wakeupneo Member since:
2005-07-06

"I don't see anybody ponying up money to purchase "Real" licenses and provide them to the Linux Media Center users."

Yeah...like the "95%" market share of Windows users are 100% legitimate...gimme a break. Time to get off that high horse of yours and face reality.

And for what it's worth, thank god I live in a country that doesn't buy into this software patent nonsense...

Reply Score: 5

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

99% of all the good software and hardware originates from America


Not so.

(1) American companies have to import software expertise from overseas:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070705193651.5xen0dee&show_...
US software behemoth Microsoft Corp. said Thursday it would soon open an office in Canada, lamenting tough immigration rules in the United States that make it difficult to hire foreign staff.
"It is about recruiting the best and brightest, and right now, the majority are coming from overseas," Marc Seaman, a spokesman for the world's biggest software company


(2) America is way down the list when it comes to FOSS software:
http://www.infonomics.nl/FLOSS/report/Final4.htm#_Toc13908249
2.7 Nationality, Residence, and Mobility Patterns of OS/FS Developers
71% of the OS/FS developers in the sample stem from EU-countries, while 13% come from North America (USA and Canada), and another 17% from other countries in Europe and all over the world.

Reply Score: 10

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"2.7 Nationality, Residence, and Mobility Patterns of OS/FS Developers
71% of the OS/FS developers in the sample stem from EU-countries, while 13% come from North America (USA and Canada), and another 17% from other countries in Europe and all over the world."

Oh come on, we all know FOSS isn't good software. The OP was obviously referring to quality software like BonziBuddy and Gator.

Reply Score: 6

wakeupneo Member since:
2005-07-06

"Who's talking about piracy?"

I'd have thought that was pretty obvious from the title of your post! "Call me when everything is legit on Linux"

If it ain't legit, then it must be pirated, no?

And 99% of "good" software and hardware originates from America does it? You're delusional. Please try to open your mind to the fact that there is a big wide world beyond US borders.

As for what MY country has added to computing and technical science, a few examples should suffice for the sake of argument. Ever heard of a little piece of software called Samba - initially developed by Andrew Tridgell at the Australian National University in 1992

Xerox Photocopying - the technology behind xerography was developed at The University of Sydney.

Electronic Pacemaker - the heart pacemaker was developed at Sydney's Crown Street Women's Hospital in 1926

Black Box Flight Recorder - this famous device was invented in 1958 by Dr David Warren at the Aeronautical Research Laboratories in Melbourne.

The Bionic Ear- the cochlear implant was invented by a team led by Professor Graeme Clark at The University of Melbourne

Moldflow software - Between 1970 and 1978 Colin Austin developed software that allowed computer simulation of the injection moulding process.

Not to mention Scramjet engines, refrigeration..etc. etc...

Get a clue.

Reply Score: 5

RawMustard Member since:
2005-10-10

Americans! Next they'll try and tell us they invented vegemite and wrote waltzing matilda ;)

Reply Score: 6

diskinetic Member since:
2005-12-09

Actually, it's Peanut Butter and "Baby please don't go".
:)

Reply Score: 2

chemical_scum Member since:
2005-11-02

Americans! Next they'll try and tell us they invented vegemite and wrote waltzing matilda ;)

Their propaganda about Americans inventing everything seems to heve spread over the border to here in Canada. I had great difficulty in persuading a fellow Canadian that it was the Germans who invented the automobile (Otto Benz 1891) not the Americans.

Edited 2007-08-29 13:47

Reply Score: 2

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"99% of all the good software and hardware originates from America"

There's only one reply possible: bullshit.
No doubt a lot of software (some good, much crap) originates from America but it's nowhere near 99%.
Welcome to the world, it is a lot bigger than Shitsville, USA.
On second thought, this post isn't even worthy of a reply.

Reply Score: 2

re_re Member since:
2005-07-06

I am American and I swear, one idiot from America makes a dumb comment and the rest of the world thinks we are all like that.

I don't think all Hispanics are stupid when I hear one say something stupid, or Germans, or French or whomever.

I am really getting fed up with the anti American vibe on this site.

When I hear "Shitville, USA", to me that shows an incredible disdain for a country that you most likely have never been to or experienced.

Yes, some of our laws suck, but it seems that by many we are looked upon at a level lower then china or north korea where where the governments allow their own people to be exploited by massive coorporations to an extreme that almost borders on slavery.


Sorry, I know much of this was off topic, but this is really getting old. I love this site, but when people show intense anger towards Americans (ie "shitville America") just simply for the fact that our laws are different and somebody from here (America) happens to post about those laws.

Do you not post from where you are at?....... I am an American, and we will post about the laws that apply to me just as you post according to the laws that apply to you.

Edited 2007-08-29 08:49

Reply Score: 3

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

When I hear "Shitville, USA", to me that shows an incredible disdain for a country that you most likely have never been to or experienced.


Seriosuly, take a chill pill. The kind of moron i was responding to obviously lives in "Shitsville" and does not think the world extends beyond his/her limited horizon. This does in no way mean all Americans are like this.

I am really getting fed up with the anti American vibe on this site.


The world is fed up with the "U.S.A, U.S.A, U.S.A" attitude of some Americans,

Sorry, I know much of this was off topic, but this is really getting old.


Sure, it feels as old as the Americans who constantly seem to think their country is the center of the universe and that their laws apply globally.

where the governments allow their own people to be exploited by massive coorporation


Isn't it a wonderful irony that many of those corporations are American?

Reply Score: 4

diskinetic Member since:
2005-12-09

I may get burned hard for this, but I feel compelled to point out a few things here that are both Linux, computing in general, and America:
IBM, MicroSoft, Apple, Cisco, AT&T, MIT, DARPA, ARPANET, and, um, UNIX. Also, for argument's sake, the telephone and microwave signal communications could be added.
Americans are probably too patrotic for our own good, but it's not like we just showed up at the party and started bolting down the punch.

Reply Score: 1

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"the telephone"

I guess Johann Philipp Reis and Antonio Meucci doesn't count, eh?
I also feel compelled to mention Ericsson, GSM and Fraunhofer.

"Americans are probably too patrotic for our own good, but it's not like we just showed up at the party and started bolting down the punch."

True, you're more like the guy who threw a good party way back and now continue to remind everyone about that endlessly even though he hasn't done anything since ;)

Reply Score: 3

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Sorry, I know much of this was off topic, but this is really getting old. I love this site, but when people show intense anger towards Americans (ie "shitville America") just simply for the fact that our laws are different and somebody from here (America) happens to post about those laws.


Americans seriously need to realise that America is not the be all and end all. American laws do not apply globally, despite the fact that many Americans apperntly think they do, and American government and big business would like to apply their law even where it doesn't apply.

Apparently, and ironically, American big business seems to think that American laws only apply globally in order to profit American big business, and American big business seems to believe that no technology could possibly originate in any place other than America.

American big business seems to believe that America's own laws do not apply to American big business interests if it happens that some profit may go overseas:

http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/business/soa/Australian-government-def...
http://www.smh.com.au/news/Breaking/CSIRO-hit-with-wifi-patent-suit...

... this is the sort of thing that really, really riles people from other countries about the apparent utterly self-centred and profit-at-all-costs behaviour of Americans. Apparently, everyone on the planet has to pay Americans for artificial scarcity, but America is not liable for the same cost going in another direction ...

... America seems to believe that it can patent all software ideas and algorithms, for example, and then just expects the rest of the world to endlessly hand over money to America, like a big, one-way siphon ...

... or so it seems to be the attitude. How is anyone supposed to think otherwise in the face of examples such as these?

Edited 2007-08-29 10:34

Reply Score: 6

license_2_blather Member since:
2006-02-05

The comment that started this was certainly narrow-minded and inaccurate, if not an intentional troll (it worked if it was). But money talks everywhere; greedy corporations don't only exist in America. I work for a German company, and American companies have nothing on them in the greed department. Further, they only think that Germans know anything -- we Americans (and other nationalities, I imagine) can't possibly be experts.

The software patent nonsense, DMCA, etc. are not some of America's better contributions to humanity, and I hope they don't find their way to the rest of the world. But if there's money to be made, don't bet on it.

Returning to topic...I set up Myth, and as someone else here commented, it was fairly easy to install. But there is such a dizzying array of configuration options I finally gave up and figured I'd only change them if I had to. But I got it to play live video pretty quickly.

Windows Media Center came on my laptop, but I was unimpressed (I'll have to go check out that Media Portal however). The LinuxMCE looks interesting, for the home automation features, as does Sage, for the "place-shifting" (TV in hotels sometimes sucks, and internet access is usually free now).

Lots of options...

Reply Score: 1

MYOB Member since:
2005-06-29

99% of all the good software and hardware originates from America so I really don't see what YOUR country has contributed to computing science?

99% of my hardware is made in Ireland or Taiwan, I suspect its exactly the same for you; it definately will be for anyone else in Europe.

Reply Score: 2

Obscurus Member since:
2006-04-20

I see a lot of "Made in Malaysia" and "Made in China" on mine.

And some of the best programmers these days are found in India - Microsoft has outsourced a huge amount of its R&D to India.

Reply Score: 2

google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

SOME of the best programmers are in India. Generally how it works is one guy who knows what he is doing to one hundred who don't. That one guy is the guy who comes and meets with you, assures you that they are not a bunch of incompetents. A few months later, and they deliever pure garbage. This has been my experience with outsourcing to india.

There are some things you can outsource that don't really require skill, just a lot of man hours. There are other things that actually require talent.

Reply Score: 2

Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

"99% of all the good software and hardware originates from America so I really don't see what YOUR country has contributed to computing science?"


Oh dear. I'd love to see you explain your point to Linus.

I can only assume that you believe every piece of software with an English readme was coded by an American.

Reply Score: 5

archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

99% of all the good software and hardware originates from America


Come on, you can't possibly be serious...

Reply Score: 2

MollyC Member since:
2006-07-04

"In the mean time, you want people to obey GPL, then you better start obeying MP3, DVDCSS, AACS and AC3 licenses.

I don't see anybody ponying up money to purchase "Real" licenses and provide them to the Linux Media Center users."


Well, the OSS model seems to be to force the burden of obtaining "real" licenses onto the user.
For example, VideoLAN says the following regarding their VLC media player:
http://wiki.videolan.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions#What_about_pers...
"Some of the codecs distributed with VLC are patented and require you to pay royalties to their licensors. These are mostly the MPEG style codecs.

With many products the producer pays the license body (in this case MPEG LA) so the user (commercial or personal) does not have to take care of this. VLC (and ffmpeg and libmpeg2 which it uses in most of these cases) cannot do this because they are Free and Open Source implementations of these codecs. The software is not sold and therefore the end-user becomes responsible for complying to the licensing and royalty requirements. You will need to contact the licensor on how to comply to these licenses.

This goes for playing a DVD with VLC for your personal joy ($2.50 one time payment to MPEG LA) as well as for using VLC for streaming a live event in MPEG-4 over the Internet. "


Of course, we all know that almost no user of VLC takes time to obtain the licenses, so the above statement might be accompanied by a wink-wink of the eye.

Reply Score: 5

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Call me when U.S law applies to other countries.

Reply Score: 4

DirtyHarry Member since:
2006-01-31

Well.... in my worst nightmares that call must be made in the near future ;-)

Reply Score: 2

abraxas Member since:
2005-07-07

In the mean time, you want people to obey GPL, then you better start obeying MP3, DVDCSS, AACS and AC3 licenses.

Oh give me a break. What about all those people who download VLC or codec packs based on free software to run on their Windows machines? The whole codec situation is a mess and most people don't have legit licenses to all of their own codecs. As for decss it was a necessity at the time because software companies refused to make DVD playing software for Linux. Personally I would love if all codecs in general use were open but that's not the case so I am going to do what I have to to get my media to work. I didn't choose to use crappy codecs like mp3. That choice was made for me. When I encode my own media I use free codecs. They are usually higher quality anyway.

I don't see anybody ponying up money to purchase "Real" licenses and provide them to the Linux Media Center users.

http://www.fluendo.com/

Reply Score: 2

zippercow
Member since:
2006-09-25

The only computer in my house currently running Windows is my media center (running XP with Media Portal). I've tried MythTV, Freevo, and GeexBox, and found all 3 to be lacking in features and usability in comparison to Windows Media Center or Media Portal. Myth is the closest to being on par with Windows solutions, but in my experimenting I ended up using GeexBox for longer because it took almost no effort to get going.

Reply Score: 1

cyclops Member since:
2006-03-12

"The only computer in my house currently running Windows is my media center (running XP with Media Portal). I've tried MythTV, Freevo, and GeexBox, and found all 3 to be lacking in features and usability in comparison to Windows Media Center or Media Portal. Myth is the closest to being on par with Windows solutions, but in my experimenting I ended up using GeexBox for longer because it took almost no effort to get going."


Thats simply a lie. MythTV is simply has more features than Windows Media Center by a *long* way...and has better features. Its also more customizable. I would argue at the extent of ease of set-up. Now if you had said ease of installation, or ease of use you *may* have had a subjective point...but *features* thats simply a outrageous lie.

Reply Score: 4

zippercow Member since:
2006-09-25

I didn't say I use Media Center. In fact, I specifically said I use Media Portal, which is open source and has far more skins and plugins than I've ever found for Myth. I totally agree that Media Center lacks some of the features and customization that many open source applications offer. Please read a little more carefully before you flame next time.

Reply Score: 2

cyclops Member since:
2006-03-12

"I didn't say I use Media Center. In fact, I specifically said I use Media Portal, which is open source and has far more skins and plugins than I've ever found for Myth. I totally agree that Media Center lacks some of the features and customization that many open source applications offer. Please read a little more carefully before you flame next time."


I'm flattered...from your article "I've tried MythTV, Freevo, and GeexBox, and found all 3 to be lacking in features and usability in comparison to Windows Media Center", and I called you a liar.

Reply Score: 4

zippercow Member since:
2006-09-25

I apologize; I've been a bit scatter-brained lately. Windows Media Center is (in my opinion) a better choice than the Linux solutions for many end users for exactly the same reasons they will never use Linux; it's already there and it does what they need it to do. I stand by Media Portal as a superior media center software though. My dream is to someday be able to use it in Linux, but sadly it's so deeply integrated with DirectX, WMP and .net that it will probably never happen.

Reply Score: 1

charm Member since:
2007-08-29

Zippercow, did you get MythTV actually set up? You mentioned that you found all 3 to be lacking in features and usability, but if you didn't actually set them up it's tough to make that comparison on anything other than marketing and heresay.

I'm far from being a Linux expert and managed to set up MythTV. I even added (without too much difficulty) an ATI Wonder remote control I bought because I didn't like the Hauppage one.

Having not set up Media Portal I can't comment on it's level of difficulty.

For me the main MythTV hurdle was really understanding all the elements involved in a Personal Video Recorder.

I'm extremely happy with my MythTV box. I share an apartment with a coworker who's strictly a Windows user (he bugs me about Linux and wouldn't touch it -- though he doesn't mind using MySQL and PHP) and he uses our MythTV box without problems. Set up correctly, MythTV is pretty slick! (I used MythDora BTW)

Reply Score: 1

zippercow Member since:
2006-09-25

I used Myth for a couple months. I never hesitate to spout off the wonders of Linux, and would love nothing more than to be able to use Linux on my media center, but Media Portal is easier to work with and (more importantly) usable by my wife without any complaints.

Reply Score: 1

v One problem.
by Anon on Wed 29th Aug 2007 01:38 UTC
RE: One problem.
by lemur2 on Wed 29th Aug 2007 01:45 UTC in reply to "One problem."
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

It's illegal to do so on Linux.


Not so. AFAIK there is no law in any country that even mentions Linux.

If you mean there is no legally licensed (under the America jurisdiction) media codecs for Linux, then even then you are sorely mistaken.

https://shop.fluendo.com/

Reply Score: 7

patents and linux
by pixel8r on Wed 29th Aug 2007 03:10 UTC
pixel8r
Member since:
2007-08-11

Whilst we'd all prefer there was no such thing as software patents, many of us unfortunately have to live with them.

And again, whilst I'd love to see all media codecs free and open, I realise that it isn't going to happen in the near future and yet I'd still like to watch DVD's and play MP3's before then. (Actually I rip all of my cds as OGG but MP3's are still the popular choice).

So this fluendo codec licensing thing sounds great for people like me that would happily pay a tiny one-off fee for the ability to legally play all kinds of media on my PC. To me, its not bowing to the pressure or giving MS what it wants. Its standing up for Linux and telling the world that we can play too. If linux wants to remove patents, my view is that it needs to first support them and then when the market share grows, show the world our free alternatives and work towards open standards.

Until then, I'll happily do what it takes to legally play DVD's on linux, and if that requires paying $10 then so be it. After all, part of the cost of any other OS includes some of those royalties, so we shouldn't get it free if no one else does. ;)

Reply Score: 1

problems with linux media center
by buff on Wed 29th Aug 2007 04:06 UTC
buff
Member since:
2005-11-12

I was able to add software from Linux that was similar to Windows media center. The problems I ran into were hooking up to proprietary windows services. For example, I wanted to watch the HD streams on abc.com but it required a plugin for IE. I considered running IE on Linux but then I realized there are incompatibilities with DRM which blocked me from running other HD streams. It was just easier to keep my XP box setup as a media center and use linux for work. I am sure this will get better on linux in time.

Reply Score: 2

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

The problems I ran into were hooking up to proprietary windows services.


This is not a problem of Linux, this is rather a problem of lack of interoperability of proprietary windows services.

If people want to run internet services to offer media, then the principles that should be followed are here:
http://www.w3.org/TR/di-princ/

Microsoft services do not comply, so you should not use Microsoft software if you are hosting media.

Reply Score: 2

Thanks For The Links
by Linsys on Wed 29th Aug 2007 04:27 UTC
Linsys
Member since:
2007-08-29

Hey everyone thanks for discussing my article, I'm the owner of pointsboard.net and wrote the article. I'm really glad someone liked enough to post it here.

Remember you can always stop by and post ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Thanks For The Links
by sloth on Wed 29th Aug 2007 09:33 UTC in reply to "Thanks For The Links"
sloth Member since:
2007-08-29

Have you tried to Linux port of Xbox Media Center? I don't know the current status of that but once it is complete (and someone adds live-TV support) it will IMO be the only sane choice for an HTPC.

I've used an Xbox with XBMC for the last couple of years and it's just so great! I actually bought an HTPC this winter and tried it with Media Portal, MythTV and Freevo but had to go back to the old Xbox because, IMO, none of those can measure up to XBMC. Of course it doesn't do live-TV but that's not very high up on my priority list anyway.

I tried the Linux port some months ago. Here's my (very short) impression: http://www.therning.org/niklas/xbox-media-center-linux-port-in-the-...

Reply Score: 1

RE: Thanks For The Links
by m_yates on Wed 29th Aug 2007 11:51 UTC in reply to "Thanks For The Links"
m_yates Member since:
2006-04-05

I'm the owner of pointsboard.net and wrote the article.


Strange, I saw the exact same article printed word for word at ITweek UK:

http://www.itweek.co.uk/personal-computer-world/features/2197364/ho...

Reply Score: 3

RE: Thanks For The Links
by KLU9 on Wed 29th Aug 2007 21:26 UTC in reply to "Thanks For The Links"
KLU9 Member since:
2006-12-06

thx m-yates for the link

linsys, are you Paul Monckton, the writer of the IT Week/Personal Computer World article? Is there some legitimate reason why the article you claim you wrote on Points Board(dated 28 August) is identical to the article in IT Week/PCW (dated 24 August)?

http://www.pcw.co.uk/personal-computer-world/features/2197364/home-...

Reply Score: 1

At least they didn't lie
by Bit_Rapist on Wed 29th Aug 2007 07:21 UTC
Bit_Rapist
Member since:
2005-11-13

spend a considerable length of time configuring your system, a Linux HTPC is probably not for you.

At least they are upfront and honest here.

I tried building a MythTV box and seriously after awhile I realized that it was cheaper for me in time and money to just work a couple hours of OT and buy Media Center.

MythTV has some sweet features but its so far from 'user friendly' on the installation front that its no wonder more people run media center.

Reply Score: 2

RE: At least they didn't lie
by Ookaze on Wed 29th Aug 2007 09:17 UTC in reply to "At least they didn't lie"
Ookaze Member since:
2005-11-14

MythTV has some sweet features but its so far from 'user friendly' on the installation front that its no wonder more people run media center

That's a lie anyway. MythTV is very easy to install. The only thing that is "hard" is configuration, and it's hard only for people that can't follow instructions.
To be honest, it's also hard because configuration requires understanding the command line, and concepts such as "server" and "client", which are advanced topics for most users.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: At least they didn't lie
by cerbie on Thu 30th Aug 2007 02:57 UTC in reply to "RE: At least they didn't lie"
cerbie Member since:
2006-01-02

Since when has initial configuration been distinct from installation? It's not installed until I can hit a button on the remote and everything just works. That's not even easy following instructions, for MythTV, as almost all invariably skip steps. So farI've only managed to find one that didn't.

Understanding things like "client" and "server" are no problems, and go to show that your main interest is in trolling. That, or you've never had any problems trying to get MythTV working, which is hard to believe.

Luckily for Myth, the Windows options really aren't that great, either, and are just as much trouble with hardware selection (oh, yeah, getting the tuner driver working is also part of installation). MythTV really does do everything well.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: At least they didn't lie
by Ookaze on Thu 30th Aug 2007 17:30 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: At least they didn't lie"
Ookaze Member since:
2005-11-14

Try not contradicting yourself, please.
You're also just showing that you don't understand one bit the concepts of client/server, and so, you're one of those people lost in the MythTV realm.
To take sth you can understand, it's like a web server. You can install it on your PC, and it works, which doesn't mean it'll do anything useful, as long as you don't "configure" it.
MythTV is the same. I can install it on a machine, and it will work, but won't do anything useful. That's why installation and configuration are two very different things. Especially since configuration involves a high volume of customization, in the case of MythTV.

And no, I NEVER had any problem to make MythTV working. NEVER!
And I doubt a lot of people had too. MythTV installation is the easiest part of the process.
And I say that while my MythBox is entirely compiled from source (automated now). On a distro, it's just a package to install.

What caused me problems are things which have nothing to do with MythTV installation, like activating TVOut with a reasonable quality. That was my biggest problem actually.

Like on my web server example, what can be hard is the configuration part. And I doubt even that is the harder part.

Actually, the hardest part in making a Linux media center (be it MythTV or any other one) is the hardware configuration, like your remote example, which actually is the trollish comment.
Because using a remote is only an option of MythTV, you can perfectly well use MythTV without a remote at all. For example, when I use MythTV through mythweb, I sure enough don't need any remote.

I can nearly sum them up :
- TVOut
- remote buttons mapping
- wakeup
- external device control

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: At least they didn't lie
by cerbie on Thu 30th Aug 2007 23:48 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: At least they didn't lie"
cerbie Member since:
2006-01-02

Generally, when I install software, it has a working configuration supplied, or the package has a nice way to configure it.

How is the remote part trollish? That's the one part that always worked (that ATI and Hauppauge have the habit of basically using X10 remotes certainly helps, I'm sure). It's making what the remote is allowed to control do what it is supposed to that can be a PITA.

MySQL? Not always working, usually for unknown reasons, as that's not usually dealt with in instructions. The yum or apt-get line is supposed to magically make it work, though it asks questions, which are difficult to Google answers to. This is another case of having the software equivalent of a bricked device: technically, it's there...

TV Tuner? Worked fine, but not necessarily with MythTV, for whatever reason. This one turned out to be Googleable, but fixable without too much fuss, it was just counter-intuitive (surprisingly, I found the answer on Ubuntu's forums, when most answers ended up coming from Gentoo's), and involved selecting a different channel configuration than what is actually used. TVTime Just Works™, so it can't be that hard to do.

Sometimes the channel guide works, sometimes not--why?

Sometimes it would take seconds to change channels, other times be almost instant--why?

Why does MythTV not have options like the Windows apps do, to autodetect the available hardware and channels on the tuner (see previous)? Setting up the devices in terms of I/O makes sense, but much of the settings are things that, like most of Xorg.conf, should be only an option to the user, not a requirement.

Now, TVout I've actually not gotten working yet, but only tried to do it on a Radeon 7000VE, and that's not really a priority feature on the server box.

Reply Score: 1

linuxmce
by hobgoblin on Wed 29th Aug 2007 07:50 UTC
hobgoblin
Member since:
2005-07-06

i do not see see linuxmce on their list.
http://www.linuxmce.org

Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux armv5tejl; no-NO; rv:1.9a6pre) Gecko/20070810 Firefox/3.0a1 Maemo browser 0.4.34 N770/SU-18

Reply Score: 2

RE: linuxmce
by superstoned on Wed 29th Aug 2007 09:13 UTC in reply to "linuxmce"
superstoned Member since:
2005-07-07

No, indeed, I did miss that as well... While it seems one of the best, most complete and easiest to use options out there! even coming with easy install etc...

edit: and, it seems to have a bright future: http://dot.kde.org/1187201437/

Edited 2007-08-29 09:14

Reply Score: 2

RE: linuxmce
by neutron on Wed 29th Aug 2007 09:15 UTC in reply to "linuxmce"
neutron Member since:
2005-07-08

Did you even bother to read the article? If yes, read it again and you'll see there's a paragraph at the end of the article about linuxmce.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: linuxmce
by hobgoblin on Wed 29th Aug 2007 10:08 UTC in reply to "RE: linuxmce"
hobgoblin Member since:
2005-07-06

yep i see it now, sorry about that.

Reply Score: 2

HTPC would be nice..
by WereCatf on Wed 29th Aug 2007 10:31 UTC
WereCatf
Member since:
2006-02-15

...but I just can't make it happen. I haven't been able to get a single remote control work under Linux, I haven't been able to get teletext viewing working under Linux, and so on.. :/ Besides, I would hate having a noisy computer running in my living room 24/7, not to mention it'd look ugly. Can't afford any of those sleek HTPC cases ;)

Reply Score: 1

forgetting about Joe couch potato
by buff on Wed 29th Aug 2007 16:17 UTC
buff
Member since:
2005-11-12

All these arguments are great that a media center can be setup on Linux that works just as well as on Windows. All the arguments about what is legal and what is not are moot points for the average Joe couch potato. Some writers mentioned that it is Microsoft's problem that media formats are not compatible forcing users to download proprietary codecs. If you look at it from an average Joe couch potato perspective, the average user just wants to double-click the media center button and watch video, listen to music, download videos transparently. As distributions get easier to use more Windows users are gravitating towards linux desktops. Realistically, ignoring all technical issues, the average linux desktop will not work with many of the proprietary web services for video. Yes, this is not Linux's fault, but does the average Joe couch potato care about this? No. They just want to be able to click on a button and watch video without any setup. This is where the linux desktop will disappoint recent converts.

Reply Score: 2

Back on topic
by blitze on Wed 29th Aug 2007 23:36 UTC
blitze
Member since:
2006-09-15

I can't use Vista x64 as a media centre as there is no way I can push video out to my TV in colour. The drivers are not there where I can tell the hardware that I'm using Component Out not Svideo.

Linux on the otherhand allows me to utilise my hardware as I like and seems very capable for my media playback needs. If I wasn't involved in the Print Industry relying on Adobe software, I would move away from Windows fully.

Reply Score: 1

Bashing Americans
by Desrtfox on Thu 30th Aug 2007 05:20 UTC
Desrtfox
Member since:
2007-08-30

I will freely admit that many Americans don't respect what other nations have contributed to the world, but it's certainly true of citizens everywhere.

Certainly 99% is a ridiculous troll, but those of you using it to jump on the America sucks bandwagon are sadly misinformed.

AS for inventions in general, and software in particular, how about American inventions such as:

The Mouse (pointing device, heh), email , The Internet (already mentioned), the transistor, the personal computer.

And no, it isn't like someone who threw a party long ago, how about:

The Cellphone, p2p, GPS, Communications Satellites, the rocket, private space travel, the spreadsheet, the word processor, C, C++, FORTRAN, JAVA, the World Wide Web, The Web Browser, the LCD.

There are a great many misconceptions out there too of course, for instance the automobile was indeed invented by Diamler Benz, but Henry Ford invented the assembly line which vastly increased the rate at which automobiles could be produced, and thus popularized automobiles. The telephone also fits in this category, as does the computer. Even the rocket (which I mentioned earlier) is a little bit gray here.

As for open source in the USA, we have, to name a few, all the BSD's, Mozilla, Firefox, Apache, Eclipse, Gnome. Many more of course.

Nearly every modern OS was invented in the US as well. No, not Linux, but then again Linux is a kernel ;) Anyway check out :

http://www.levenez.com/unix/history.html#01

for OS history, and

http://www.oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly/news/languageposter_0504.html

for Programming language history.

Now, I know it's fashionable right now to bash the US, and I also know that many Americans know didly squat about anything - Americans are not unique in this fact, so please, stay respectful.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Bashing Americans
by MxNova on Thu 30th Aug 2007 07:37 UTC in reply to "Bashing Americans"
MxNova Member since:
2007-08-30

>the rocket,

rocket was invented several hundreds years before USA was born.


>private space travel

What is this? The first man in space was Gagarin, USSR

Reply Score: 1

Bashing Americans
by Desrtfox on Thu 30th Aug 2007 15:19 UTC
Desrtfox
Member since:
2007-08-30

I mean the rocket as in the modern rocket. Now indeed, this is a gray area too, so I'll concede this one.

Ancient Rocketry, aka fireworks, have indeed been invented in China I believe, but definetely predates the USA. Even in modern rockets there is confusion between Werner Von Braun (A German) and Robert Goddard (An American).

As for private spaceflight, I mean non-government sponsered spaceflight, as in commercial spaceflight, see scaled composites or Burt Rutan for more details.

Reply Score: 1