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It happened long time ago. Fact is that most big and medium size companies don't use pre-installed OS, they already have service style OS contracts. In this field Linux has been alternative long time.

What this more tells is that HP and other manufacturers are willing to spend some money to create Linux support service for public. It's important because ones they have base of support ready it's easier to expand and we will see more products with Linux option.

Nooooo! You can't state that it is! That releases the Great Postponing Curse that has plagued Geekdom since 1997!

:-D

Yes, for those who have said all these years "This is the year of Linux", I think this year is 2007. Moreover, Linux is mature at last.

Indeed they have. I know because I bought one (a *consumer* laptop loaded with Mandriva 2007 - Compaq V6000z specifically).

You are absolutely correct on this, which is why I have had to roll my eyes for quite some time when I see people jumping up and down about Linux not being offered by major PC manufacturers.

I think in the end here, the marketing for this will be to business who are already using Linux, specifically RHEL. More importantly, they seem to have narrowed down a Linux distribution that has support directly from the distro (Red Hat) which will cut down on HP having to support Linux. It will be interesting to see how much service they will allow on these, even more will these desktops be in the Smart Buy program, and what if any support contract will be included from Red Hat.

Outside of servers of course, Dell's Ubuntu offerings are in their home store, so Dell is pretty clearly targeting home users who want Linux (they aren't doing anything to create demand for it though). Dell Business needs to have a minimum number of computers ordered to get Linux preinstalled, otherwise the only option is no OS (FreeDOS). You're probably thinking of Levano offering Linux preinstalled on enterprise laptops, and now HP is doing it for enterprise desktops. It IS happening on all fronts, although there is no promotion of this quite yet, so while its a good start, I personally wouldn't quite declare this to be year of the Linux desktop, I'm still predicting that will be in 2010, we're getting close now though

There's nothing wrong about being forced to use Linux at work, especially the distros that are being offered (SuSE, Ubuntu, RHEL). They are less pr0n to viruses, they have all the software you need (Office suite, Evolution, Web browser). They have no game, no instant messaging (you can lock it easier than on Windows because coworkers don't know how to install that stuff without having the admin password). Overall, Linux = More productivity for companies, less bucks and less headaches.

Why this got -1 I'm not sure... I work in an IT dept and it all makes sense to me.

Although I'd disagree with the "all the software you need" comment, I do believe it has all the software the majority needs. But some folks will still be stuck with windows only apps.

"Although I'd disagree with the "all the software you need" comment, I do believe it has all the software the majority needs. But some folks will still be stuck with windows only apps."

People often forget that there is no real autocat alternative, no Adobe Creative Suit alternative and no good bookkeeping program.
This ain't possible without support of a commerical company, it's too big or too boring to do at home.

Not everyone is an accountant, a graphic artist or an architect.

And there are some very real engineering CAD programs that run on Linux.

If you are not a graphic artist, and many who think they are, are nothing but kiddies with a pirated photoshop, krita and gimp do plenty for you.

Actually, the lack of FOSS business accounting software is a big, ugly hole in our stack. Not everyone is an accountant. But most people have a job. Working for a company. And that company need to do payroll, accounts receivable, accounts payable, and general ledger... at minimum.

And we have nothing to offer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_software

Does any of this do what you need?

"""
Does any of this do what you need?
"""

No. Unfortunately not. That comparison does not even include the big players. It's one of those wikipedia pages, on a subject I know something about, that makes me wonder about the other pages where I trust it on topics with which I am less familiar.

Believe me. If we had FOSS accounting and/or POS software that was not pathetic, I would not be working for a company that distributes proprietary accounting, pos, and manufacturing accounting software. Or at the very least, I'd be in a position to shame my current employer a hell of a lot more.

Someone modded my post down one. That's OK. So please do not take *this* as a reaction to *that*.

But... speaking as an employee of a company that sells and supports business accounting software... please either cough up a business-class solution or pull your head out of the sand. The Ostrich strategy does not do this community any good.

I'd love to spend my time supporting something I believe in, with people who share my enthusiasm about what it is we are doing... rather than spending my time supporting something I believe in (I slip FOSS in where I can), working with people who just go where the money is. And in business accounting, the money is in closed source software. I can't even propose a capable FOSS alternative to lure the younger, more rebellious folks into my camp.

Help!!! ;-)

I disagree for basic stuff Gnucash and Kmymoney more than do the job. For intermediate stuff, Quasar, Moneydance, SQL-Ledger are pretty good.

For more advanced record-keeping with some ERP mixed in, you have lots of stuff: Compiere, OpenBravo, Abanq,

http://abanq.org/
http://www.openbravo.com/

And if you go to the high end, Oracle, Peoplesoft, SAP are all happy to take your money.

A wider collection of links to accounting software:

http://www.aaxnet.com/design/linuxacct.html

They have no game, no instant messaging (you can lock it easier than on Windows because coworkers don't know how to install that stuff without having the admin password).

Never heard of group policy have you?

Overall, Linux = More productivity for companies, less bucks and less headaches.

That's your opinion and may not hold true in all cases.

Well DOS essentially started this way at a time when there were more choices. I know that times are different but alot of people want to (and in some cases need to) use the same systems they use at work.

Also, HP had alot of choices when it came to what distro they wanted to support. They selected a company that did not sign a deal with Microsoft. I don't believe this is by chance. Dell, likewise, did the same. There is a message here...

The important thing is that Linux has gained a momentum it did not previously have - support (however minor) from big-time vendors.

Didn't Dell choose Ubuntu before they had stated their denial of the Microsoft deal?

Wow, you're really grasping at straws with that. HP, one of Microsoft's largest partners in the entire fricking world, has had cross-licensing agreements with MS for a while, holds a number of patents themselves, and was the only major organization to openly question the aggressiveness of the patent provisions for GPL v3 during the drafting process. They don't care about distros signing licensing agreements because HP already offers indemnity and has more clout and legal pull to protect their customers than either Novell or Red Hat does.

Seriously, let's keep things in perspective.



But the problem is it's not gaining support, at least in terms of joint engineering/marketing/service. Until it does, it's nothing more than saving the customer the hassle of inserting the CD into the drive and spending three minutes clicking through menus to install themselves.

I'm not going to knock HP because they certainly are a premier supporter of linux development and have contributed a tremendous amount, but HP preinstalling RHEL on a system will do no more to shift the market than Dell pre-installing Ubuntu on their systems. The only people buying them will be people already using those systems, this is doing nothing to attract new users or address the existing shortcomings. It's simply marketing.

Still, it's an endorsement and I'm ok with that, but it's not a paradigm shift or pivotal change or anything nearly as dramatic as that.

I wasn't clear about the "They selected a company that did not sign a deal with Microsoft. I don't believe this is by chance.". Apologies for the confusion.

It was a train of thought I had that I probably shouldn't have typed. When I read the article, I thought back to the BeOS and Hitachi case. Microsoft has a long history of stuffing their licenses in vendor faces and basically threatening them if they include alternative choices.

For years, stories would surface regarding Microsoft's role in the distribution chain and how difficult it was to to include competing operating systems such as OS/2, alternate DOSes [sic], BeOS (even when BeOS made it available for free), etc...

Seeing the doors open for any alternative (whether it's Linux or any other) is refreshing. It shows just how much things have changed. The selection of Red Hat by HP was made despite and with little regard to Microsoft's unsubstantiated Patent threats - another tool to limit competition. This is a good sign for Linux in general and speaks to a specific level of support - a Free Linux (Dell, HP).

I should not have implied that HP made a conscious decision to assert itself given Microsoft's history of 'b1tch-slapping' their vendors. What they did do is select a viable Linux from a list of great distros.

But the problem is it's not gaining support, at least in terms of joint engineering/marketing/service.

I clearly wasn't referring to this type of support since I noted it was minor. Higher levels of support come with time - this is a limited release in Australia. For novice users, even having the system pre-loaded by a major name brand is a huge step. This includes a telephone number provided by a huge computer vendor. These little things make a difference and eventually - as more users begin to use these systems - additional support follows.

Consumers don't see a system as parts such as motherboards, cpus, sata, etc... When they speak of computers they say Dell, HP, Apple and so forth.

Linux's entrance into the market via big name vendors is a trickle effect. I'm not sure where I even suggested that there would be any kind of market-shift or pivotal change. I think you went off on a tangent:-)

But I do agree with you 100% - it is marketing. I can now say that Dell and HP support Linux and that isn't a stretch by any means.

We are beginning to see the first signs that competition in the PC area is taking form via Apple (which has done a tremendous job of coming back) and to a lesser extent now... Linux.

there is no message here. Dell was before the whole siging deal and what's actually wrong in tring to get interoperability work?

Maybe it's time to realize that the MS signing deal actually only hurts MS itself. That's not too bad.
If you look at SLED10, you do see that it perfectly blends into big(ger) corporate environments, without much work, which is a very good thing. RH should have done that too.

The patents protection deal: null and void if your legislation people use their brains.

I cannot be sued for the fact that my carmaker has breached some patent.

Just because two big vendors are offering it doesn't mean that its the much-hyped YOLD all of a sudden.

I will know that the 'YOLD' has arrived when I start hearing my computer-illiterate friends talking about this 'Linux thing'. So far, that ain't happening. I give it at least another 5 years, and that's a conservative estimate.

Ubuntu is a generic enterprise desktop?

Makes sense... Tux for penguins.

Maybe because Gnome is less intimidating to new users and experienced people wouldn't be too worried about installing KDE (or even their perferred distro knowing that the laptop/PC is Linux compatable).

Either way - I wouldn't say times were bleak for KDE. Not by a long shot and certainly not with the much anticipated release of 4.0

Edited 2007-08-31 09:34

Whats wrong with it? the fact that there aren't 100s of speakers 1000s of lights blinking on and off? you might like gaudy bling-bling but for the rest of us, the design is clean, compact and minimalist, something ALL vendors should be embracing.

I don't care about 'changable face plates', I don't want my speakers wedged to the side of my monitor, and I sure as heck don't want the case to be big, bulky and multi-coloured like some sort of bad designed Elvis Vegas suite.

For design, personally, I like the old Thinkpad design - it would be nice if they got rid of all that pointless crap they include - those stupid programmable short cut keys. Give me a keyboard, and nothing more.

I couldn't agree with you more. So much so that i'd +1 you twice if I could.

Edited 2007-08-31 11:34

i also agree, look at apple's designs. Less is more.

Tell them:
"Yes, great, isn't it? And if you need splendiferous colors and smilies just use one of the many X-based IM/IRC clients out there, e. g. http://www.pidgin.im/ "

Some people...

You mean there are no windows clients without ads? Well damn.

Yeah, Trillian has no ads. I'm a linux user but I'm just saying.

Saying what?

/Backwards?!/

I'm not going to argue that Linux is better than Windows (that kind of flame war happens enough on here) but I wouldn't have said that switching from Windows to Linux was a step backwards.