Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 30th Aug 2007 22:13 UTC
Hardware, Embedded Systems Ending months of rumors, Hewlett-Packard appears to have released its first mass-market PC with pre-installed Linux. Specifically, the company will soon be selling RHEL (Red Hat Enterprise Linux) Desktop 5 on its HP dx2250 PC to Australian customers. HP, long a staunch Linux supporter both on the desktop and the server, had never offered a pre-loaded desktop Linux. There have, however, been many rumors in recent months that HP was on the verge of announcing a business Linux desktop with SLED (SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop) 10 SP 1, Ubuntu 7.04, or RHEL Desktop 5, or its delayed desktop Linux brother, Red Hat Global Desktop.
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Rockin'
by Bit_Rapist (4.4) on Thu 30th Aug 2007 23:16 UTC
Bit_Rapist
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2005-11-13
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I'm looking forward to large OEMs offering linux on machines pre-installed. This is what will help drive Linux into the enterprise desktop and beyond.

It has begun.

RE: Rockin'
by Karitku (1.16) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 06:04 UTC in reply to "Rockin'"
Karitku Member since:
2006-01-12
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It happened long time ago. Fact is that most big and medium size companies don't use pre-installed OS, they already have service style OS contracts. In this field Linux has been alternative long time.

What this more tells is that HP and other manufacturers are willing to spend some money to create Linux support service for public. It's important because ones they have base of support ready it's easier to expand and we will see more products with Linux option.

Wow.
by Michael (4.08) on Thu 30th Aug 2007 23:21 UTC
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Now the two biggest PC suppliers offer desktop Linux*. This really _is_ the year of Linux the desktop!? Strange times.

*On a handful of systems in only limited regions.

RE: Wow.
by korpenkraxar (4.32) on Thu 30th Aug 2007 23:59 UTC in reply to "Wow."
korpenkraxar Member since:
2005-09-10
Fans: 1

Nooooo! You can't state that it is! That releases the Great Postponing Curse that has plagued Geekdom since 1997!

:-D

RE: Wow.
by Joe User (0.88) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 00:28 UTC in reply to "Wow."
Joe User Member since:
2005-06-29
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Yes, for those who have said all these years "This is the year of Linux", I think this year is 2007. Moreover, Linux is mature at last.

This is not a first for HP
by porcel (4.6) on Thu 30th Aug 2007 23:47 UTC
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HP has offered laptops with Suse before and PCs with Mandriva as well.

RE: This is not a first for HP
by thebluesgnr (3.4) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 02:40 UTC in reply to "This is not a first for HP"
thebluesgnr Member since:
2005-11-14
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HP has offered laptops with Suse before and PCs with Mandriva as well.


Indeed they have. I know because I bought one (a *consumer* laptop loaded with Mandriva 2007 - Compaq V6000z specifically).

RE: This is not a first for HP
by ssa2204 (2.56) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 03:34 UTC in reply to "This is not a first for HP"
ssa2204 Member since:
2006-04-22
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You are absolutely correct on this, which is why I have had to roll my eyes for quite some time when I see people jumping up and down about Linux not being offered by major PC manufacturers.

I think in the end here, the marketing for this will be to business who are already using Linux, specifically RHEL. More importantly, they seem to have narrowed down a Linux distribution that has support directly from the distro (Red Hat) which will cut down on HP having to support Linux. It will be interesting to see how much service they will allow on these, even more will these desktops be in the Smart Buy program, and what if any support contract will be included from Red Hat.

.......
by islander (3.76) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 00:22 UTC
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I am pleased.Its all happening so sudden (feels pulse)Wow Tux, you're making it.

Actually, no.
by raynevandunem (2.36) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 01:00 UTC
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Just because two big vendors are offering it doesn't mean that its the much-hyped YOLD all of a sudden.

Rather, I'm only seeing two generic enterprise desktop distros being offered by two long-competing generic multi-factor computer manufacturers, and nothing else.

Maybe I'm not giving this the amount of time that this move needs to settle in, but the offering of Ubuntu and RHEL for enterprise-exclusive desktops is only further enforcing a stereotype that Linux only belongs (and works best) in the airtight cloisters of the corporate world, namely, the server room and the cubicle.

This doesn't bring it that much further into contact with the home desktop, which Linspire tried to target (and ultimately failed). Now, instead of being forced to use Windows at work and Mac at home, the new explanation will be "forced to use Linux at work, can't wait to use Mac and XP (gaming) at home."

But does this stroke a few egos? Yes, and rightfully so.

RE: Actually, no.
by aent (3.72) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 01:24 UTC in reply to "Actually, no."
aent Member since:
2006-01-25
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Outside of servers of course, Dell's Ubuntu offerings are in their home store, so Dell is pretty clearly targeting home users who want Linux (they aren't doing anything to create demand for it though). Dell Business needs to have a minimum number of computers ordered to get Linux preinstalled, otherwise the only option is no OS (FreeDOS). You're probably thinking of Levano offering Linux preinstalled on enterprise laptops, and now HP is doing it for enterprise desktops. It IS happening on all fronts, although there is no promotion of this quite yet, so while its a good start, I personally wouldn't quite declare this to be year of the Linux desktop, I'm still predicting that will be in 2010, we're getting close now though ;)

RE: Actually, no.
by Joe User (0.88) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 01:27 UTC in reply to "Actually, no."
Joe User Member since:
2005-06-29
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There's nothing wrong about being forced to use Linux at work, especially the distros that are being offered (SuSE, Ubuntu, RHEL). They are less pr0n to viruses, they have all the software you need (Office suite, Evolution, Web browser). They have no game, no instant messaging (you can lock it easier than on Windows because coworkers don't know how to install that stuff without having the admin password). Overall, Linux = More productivity for companies, less bucks and less headaches.

RE[2]: Actually, no.
by Ventajou (3.16) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 05:30 UTC in reply to "RE: Actually, no."
Ventajou Member since:
2006-10-31
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Why this got -1 I'm not sure... I work in an IT dept and it all makes sense to me.

Although I'd disagree with the "all the software you need" comment, I do believe it has all the software the majority needs. But some folks will still be stuck with windows only apps.

RE[3]: Actually, no.
by Arno (1.88) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 07:01 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Actually, no."
Arno Member since:
2006-01-10
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"Although I'd disagree with the "all the software you need" comment, I do believe it has all the software the majority needs. But some folks will still be stuck with windows only apps."

People often forget that there is no real autocat alternative, no Adobe Creative Suit alternative and no good bookkeeping program.
This ain't possible without support of a commerical company, it's too big or too boring to do at home.

RE[4]: Actually, no.
by porcel (4.6) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 12:16 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Actually, no."
porcel Member since:
2006-01-28
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Not everyone is an accountant, a graphic artist or an architect.

And there are some very real engineering CAD programs that run on Linux.

If you are not a graphic artist, and many who think they are, are nothing but kiddies with a pirated photoshop, krita and gimp do plenty for you.

RE[3]: Actually, no.
by sappyvcv (2.36) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 13:23 UTC in reply to "RE: Actually, no."
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06
Fans: 11

They have no game, no instant messaging (you can lock it easier than on Windows because coworkers don't know how to install that stuff without having the admin password).

Never heard of group policy have you?

Overall, Linux = More productivity for companies, less bucks and less headaches.

That's your opinion and may not hold true in all cases.

RE: Actually, yes...
by twocents (1.54) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 01:49 UTC in reply to "Actually, no."
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2006-07-30
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Well DOS essentially started this way at a time when there were more choices. I know that times are different but alot of people want to (and in some cases need to) use the same systems they use at work.

Also, HP had alot of choices when it came to what distro they wanted to support. They selected a company that did not sign a deal with Microsoft. I don't believe this is by chance. Dell, likewise, did the same. There is a message here...

The important thing is that Linux has gained a momentum it did not previously have - support (however minor) from big-time vendors.

RE[2]: Actually, yes...
by dbodner (2.32) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 02:26 UTC in reply to "RE: Actually, yes..."
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2007-07-01
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They selected a company that did not sign a deal with Microsoft. I don't believe this is by chance. Dell, likewise, did the same. There is a message here...


Didn't Dell choose Ubuntu before they had stated their denial of the Microsoft deal?

RE[2]: Actually, yes...
by elsewhere (4.68) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 04:07 UTC in reply to "RE: Actually, yes..."
elsewhere Member since:
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Also, HP had alot of choices when it came to what distro they wanted to support. They selected a company that did not sign a deal with Microsoft. I don't believe this is by chance.


Wow, you're really grasping at straws with that. HP, one of Microsoft's largest partners in the entire fricking world, has had cross-licensing agreements with MS for a while, holds a number of patents themselves, and was the only major organization to openly question the aggressiveness of the patent provisions for GPL v3 during the drafting process. They don't care about distros signing licensing agreements because HP already offers indemnity and has more clout and legal pull to protect their customers than either Novell or Red Hat does.

Seriously, let's keep things in perspective.

The important thing is that Linux has gained a momentum it did not previously have - support (however minor) from big-time vendors.


But the problem is it's not gaining support, at least in terms of joint engineering/marketing/service. Until it does, it's nothing more than saving the customer the hassle of inserting the CD into the drive and spending three minutes clicking through menus to install themselves.

I'm not going to knock HP because they certainly are a premier supporter of linux development and have contributed a tremendous amount, but HP preinstalling RHEL on a system will do no more to shift the market than Dell pre-installing Ubuntu on their systems. The only people buying them will be people already using those systems, this is doing nothing to attract new users or address the existing shortcomings. It's simply marketing.

Still, it's an endorsement and I'm ok with that, but it's not a paradigm shift or pivotal change or anything nearly as dramatic as that.

RE[3]: Actually, yes...
by twocents (1.54) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 16:06 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Actually, yes..."
twocents Member since:
2006-07-30
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I wasn't clear about the "They selected a company that did not sign a deal with Microsoft. I don't believe this is by chance.". Apologies for the confusion.

It was a train of thought I had that I probably shouldn't have typed. When I read the article, I thought back to the BeOS and Hitachi case. Microsoft has a long history of stuffing their licenses in vendor faces and basically threatening them if they include alternative choices.

For years, stories would surface regarding Microsoft's role in the distribution chain and how difficult it was to to include competing operating systems such as OS/2, alternate DOSes [sic], BeOS (even when BeOS made it available for free), etc...

Seeing the doors open for any alternative (whether it's Linux or any other) is refreshing. It shows just how much things have changed. The selection of Red Hat by HP was made despite and with little regard to Microsoft's unsubstantiated Patent threats - another tool to limit competition. This is a good sign for Linux in general and speaks to a specific level of support - a Free Linux (Dell, HP).

I should not have implied that HP made a conscious decision to assert itself given Microsoft's history of 'b1tch-slapping' their vendors. What they did do is select a viable Linux from a list of great distros.

But the problem is it's not gaining support, at least in terms of joint engineering/marketing/service.

I clearly wasn't referring to this type of support since I noted it was minor. Higher levels of support come with time - this is a limited release in Australia. For novice users, even having the system pre-loaded by a major name brand is a huge step. This includes a telephone number provided by a huge computer vendor. These little things make a difference and eventually - as more users begin to use these systems - additional support follows.

Consumers don't see a system as parts such as motherboards, cpus, sata, etc... When they speak of computers they say Dell, HP, Apple and so forth.

Linux's entrance into the market via big name vendors is a trickle effect. I'm not sure where I even suggested that there would be any kind of market-shift or pivotal change. I think you went off on a tangent:-)

But I do agree with you 100% - it is marketing. I can now say that Dell and HP support Linux and that isn't a stretch by any means.

We are beginning to see the first signs that competition in the PC area is taking form via Apple (which has done a tremendous job of coming back) and to a lesser extent now... Linux.

RE[2]: Actually, yes...
by sgibofh (1.64) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 05:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Actually, yes..."
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2007-03-31
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there is no message here. Dell was before the whole siging deal and what's actually wrong in tring to get interoperability work?

Maybe it's time to realize that the MS signing deal actually only hurts MS itself. That's not too bad.
If you look at SLED10, you do see that it perfectly blends into big(ger) corporate environments, without much work, which is a very good thing. RH should have done that too.

The patents protection deal: null and void if your legislation people use their brains.

I cannot be sued for the fact that my carmaker has breached some patent.

RE: Actually, no.
by WorknMan (3.64) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 03:47 UTC in reply to "Actually, no."
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13
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Just because two big vendors are offering it doesn't mean that its the much-hyped YOLD all of a sudden.

I will know that the 'YOLD' has arrived when I start hearing my computer-illiterate friends talking about this 'Linux thing'. So far, that ain't happening. I give it at least another 5 years, and that's a conservative estimate.

RE: Actually, no.
by spikeb (2.52) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 04:28 UTC in reply to "Actually, no."
spikeb Member since:
2006-01-18
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Ubuntu is a generic enterprise desktop?

The Real Story is...
by steverez1 (1.24) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 04:19 UTC
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2006-12-06
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HP finally started to develop their "crapware" printer and photo applications for Linux. (and that was one of the reasons I liked Linux no "crapware")

v Finally
by shapeshifter (2.32) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 04:52 UTC
RE: Finally
by J-Ho (1.75) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 07:27 UTC in reply to "Finally"
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What's next? Dell will offer Linux computers in Antarctica?


Makes sense... Tux for penguins.

In other news
by shapeshifter (2.32) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 04:58 UTC
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Microsoft lowered HP's purchase price of Windows Vista by 30%. ;)

Times seem bleak for KDE
by villagerman (-0.22) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 05:00 UTC
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Though KDE is in my opinion superior to GNOME, it is very saddening to see that all the [major] computer vendors are gunning for GNOME distros. We've yet to see an OEM who has expressed interest in any KDE centric distro. Why this is the case, I have no clue!

RE: Times seem bleak for KDE
by Laurence (4.36) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 09:32 UTC in reply to "Times seem bleak for KDE"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26
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"Though KDE is in my opinion superior to GNOME, it is very saddening to see that all the [major] computer vendors are gunning for GNOME distros. We've yet to see an OEM who has expressed interest in any KDE centric distro. Why this is the case, I have no clue!"


Maybe because Gnome is less intimidating to new users and experienced people wouldn't be too worried about installing KDE (or even their perferred distro knowing that the laptop/PC is Linux compatable).

Either way - I wouldn't say times were bleak for KDE. Not by a long shot and certainly not with the much anticipated release of 4.0

Edited 2007-08-31 09:34

RE:HP Releases Its First Mass-Market Linux PC
by TusharG (1.92) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 05:21 UTC
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Not a surprising news....
The moment Dell realized after the polls that Linux desktop is must and is as popular as Windows they launched its product line for the same.
Mean while like I said earlier slow but surely one by one each manufacturer will join the Linux stream soon not because they have realized the importance of popular Linux demand but because DELL is pulling some market share from them by selling Linux machines pre-installed. So I still have doubt how many companies are really selling Linux preinstalled by really understanding the value of it and how many are selling just to compete with others.

Mod me down for this but...
by Ventajou (3.16) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 05:26 UTC
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HP really picked their ugliest PC to put Linux on... And it's not like they can't do more attractive designs, check
http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/29/hp-virtus-revealed/

At least the Dells don't look like a brick...

RE: Mod me down for this but...
by kaiwai (2.44) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 10:27 UTC in reply to "Mod me down for this but..."
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06
Fans: 19

Whats wrong with it? the fact that there aren't 100s of speakers 1000s of lights blinking on and off? you might like gaudy bling-bling but for the rest of us, the design is clean, compact and minimalist, something ALL vendors should be embracing.

I don't care about 'changable face plates', I don't want my speakers wedged to the side of my monitor, and I sure as heck don't want the case to be big, bulky and multi-coloured like some sort of bad designed Elvis Vegas suite.

For design, personally, I like the old Thinkpad design - it would be nice if they got rid of all that pointless crap they include - those stupid programmable short cut keys. Give me a keyboard, and nothing more.

RE[2]: Mod me down for this but...
by Laurence (4.36) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 11:33 UTC in reply to "RE: Mod me down for this but..."
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26
Fans: 3

"Whats wrong with it? the fact that there aren't 100s of speakers 1000s of lights blinking on and off? you might like gaudy bling-bling but for the rest of us, the design is clean, compact and minimalist, something ALL vendors should be embracing.

I don't care about 'changable face plates', I don't want my speakers wedged to the side of my monitor, and I sure as heck don't want the case to be big, bulky and multi-coloured like some sort of bad designed Elvis Vegas suite.

For design, personally, I like the old Thinkpad design - it would be nice if they got rid of all that pointless crap they include - those stupid programmable short cut keys. Give me a keyboard, and nothing more."


I couldn't agree with you more. So much so that i'd +1 you twice if I could. ;)

Edited 2007-08-31 11:34

RE[3]: Mod me down for this but...
by REM2000 (3.52) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 11:41 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Mod me down for this but..."
REM2000 Member since:
2006-07-25
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i also agree, look at apple's designs. Less is more.

Year of the linux desktop - wheeee!
by jadeshade (1.64) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 07:27 UTC
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2007-07-10
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"dude I hate those ads on AIM"
"the ones that make sounds?"
"yeah, they're a bitch"
"I don't have to deal with them, I use a linux client"
"well no shit, that's just retarded white text on a black screen"

hooray! (apologies to the centericq peeps, but then again you don't take no shit anyway)

please tell me when you stop having the discussion mentioned above - maybe then it will be the YOLD. (btw, that's pretty much verbatim from real life)

B. Janssen Member since:
2006-10-11
Fans: 2

jadeshade: please tell me when you stop having the discussion mentioned above - maybe then it will be the YOLD. (btw, that's pretty much verbatim from real life)


Tell them:
"Yes, great, isn't it? And if you need splendiferous colors and smilies just use one of the many X-based IM/IRC clients out there, e. g. http://www.pidgin.im/ "

Some people...

RE: Year of the linux desktop - wheeee!
by sappyvcv (2.36) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 13:28 UTC in reply to "Year of the linux desktop - wheeee!"
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06
Fans: 11

You mean there are no windows clients without ads? Well damn.

apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17
Fans: 1

Yeah, Trillian has no ads. I'm a linux user but I'm just saying.

sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06
Fans: 11

Saying what?

v yawn
by Robocoastie (1) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 14:29 UTC
RE: yawn
by Laurence (4.36) on Fri 31st Aug 2007 15:37 UTC in reply to "yawn"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26
Fans: 3

"Companies and gov'ts left Unix systems in favor of using one their employees knew better because they used it at home - MSFT Windows. They aren't going to go backwards again unless that system becomes consumer mainstream."


/Backwards?!/

I'm not going to argue that Linux is better than Windows (that kind of flame war happens enough on here) but I wouldn't have said that switching from Windows to Linux was a step backwards.