Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 20th Sep 2007 17:09 UTC
Apple Columnist Bill Thompson at the BBC asks whether the time has come for Apple to be put under the EU microscope in the same way as Microsoft has. "If Apple was serious about building a music industry around downloads and digital devices then it would open up its devices and interfaces to allow greater innovation and greater competition."
Order by: Score:
'Time for Apple to Face the Music?'
by raver31 on Thu 20th Sep 2007 17:25 UTC
raver31
Member since:
2005-07-06

Emmmm, No.

Reply Score: 5

flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

Emmmm, Yes.

Reply Score: 11

raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

Alright, your input has changed my mind.

Reply Score: 4

flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

Sorry, had to be as thorough and as well thought out as your initial comment. :p

Reply Score: 7

Play it again, Steve...
by Harald on Thu 20th Sep 2007 17:29 UTC
Harald
Member since:
2006-03-10

This is a ticking time bomb for Apple.

I've had Apple computers beginning with a ][ plus and have followed the company closely.

Apple is very cyclical...and it's usually just a matter of time before Jobs' ego gets the best of him and his company...to the demise of shareholders.

If something doesn't happen soon with Apple's lock on iTunes...looks like that cycle will continue.

Reply Score: 2

open up its devices and interfaces
by l3v1 on Thu 20th Sep 2007 17:43 UTC
l3v1
Member since:
2005-07-06

"open up its devices and interfaces"

I'd say right now I care more about availability than openness, I mean, half - maybe more - of Europe doesn't even have access to iTunes, let alone care about open devices and interfaces.

Reply Score: 5

Chicken Blood Member since:
2005-12-21

I'm wondering what do you mean by they "don't have access to iTunes"?

Do you mean there is no dedicated www.apple/<country of europe> website where you can download a localized version of iTunes or do you mean that there is no iTunes store available?

AFAIK the English, French, Spanish, Portugese, German, Dutch, Finnish, Danish, Italian, Polish, Russian, Swedish and Norwegian version of iTunes are available for anyone to download.

Edited 2007-09-20 18:01 UTC

Reply Score: 1

andrewg Member since:
2005-07-06

You can use the iTunes software but when you try to access the store via iTunes software you can't because it checks you credit card number and will only serve customers in countries where Apple has a deal. In South Africa nothing is available via the iTunes store.

Its nice to still be able to use the software though.

Reply Score: 5

Chicken Blood Member since:
2005-12-21

That is a shame. As a resident of a country that is not underserved by the iTunes store, I hope Apple work harder on partnering with the record companies in yours.

Presumably there are other music stores you can use to download content? It's not as convenient, but iTunes allows you to import any musical content (in supported codecs).

So this is not really a case of proprietary lock-in (as some may suggest), but a failure of Apple to provide a music stores in some countries at this time.

The iPod database encryption may be another story though.

Reply Score: 1

tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

Contact South Africa and their Commerce department as to what it takes for Apple to be able to trade and have currency exchange solutions between Cupertino and South Africa.

Contact Cupertino and inquire as to whether they are working on a relationship with South Africa. If not, suggest it.

Apple can't supersede Governments trading policies.

Reply Score: 2

merde Member since:
2007-04-05

Chicken Blood wrote:

AFAIK the English, French, Spanish, Portugese, German, Dutch, Finnish, Danish, Italian, Polish, Russian, Swedish and Norwegian version of iTunes are available for anyone to download.


No, iTunes Store isn't available in Poland. Here you are:
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2082/itmsim7.jpg

Edited 2007-09-21 07:21

Reply Score: 1

Chicken Blood Member since:
2005-12-21

No, iTunes Store isn't available in Poland. Here you are:
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2082/itmsim7.jpg


Where did I say that it was?

Reply Score: 1

Bob Slob Member since:
2007-01-11

Well, that is about half of europe, so there you are.

Your list leaves out: Belarus, Bulgaria, Czech, Hungary, Moldova, Romania, Slovakia, Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Albania, Andorra, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Greece, Macedonia, Malta, Montenegro, Serbia, Slovenia, and Turky.

I think that Belarussians speak pretty good Russian, as does half of the Ukraine, but considering that Norway has its own version (4.5 mill. inhabitants) would justify an ukranian version (48.4 Mill), not? But then again, they have more oil...

Reply Score: 3

Chicken Blood Member since:
2005-12-21

Well, that is about half of europe, so there you are.

Yep. Here I am.

Your list leaves out: Belarus, Bulgaria, Czech, Hungary, Moldova, Romania, Slovakia, Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Albania, Andorra, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Greece, Macedonia, Malta, Montenegro, Serbia, Slovenia, and Turky.

My list leaves them out quite delibereately, I was listing the languages for which localized versions of iTunes exist.

I think that Belarussians speak pretty good Russian, as does half of the Ukraine, but considering that Norway has its own version (4.5 mill. inhabitants) would justify an ukranian version (48.4 Mill), not? But then again, they have more oil...

Oil? I guess that was some kind of joke.
I guess anyone looking for a English-Ukranian translaters job should check Apple's wanted ads!
Seriously though, this is just a question of time and effort in rolling out different localizations of the software (as with any software).

** Disclaimer: Spoken as a linguistically lazy Englishman

Nearly every European I have met (mostly from western and central European countries) has had a decent grasp of either French Spanish or English as a either a first or second language, so for them iTunes is available. It's a minor consolation of course that they don't have the software in their native language and of course it would be great to see all European languages available.

Reply Score: 1

Bob Slob Member since:
2007-01-11

Im sorry I actually spent time writing a reply to you

Reply Score: 2

Chicken Blood Member since:
2005-12-21

Why did I write something that offended you?

Edited 2007-09-21 21:10 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Bob Slob Member since:
2007-01-11

no, you just missed my point, by a mile.

Reply Score: 1

Chicken Blood Member since:
2005-12-21

You named the other half of Europe that doesn't have a localized version of iTunes, then made the case for the Ukraine having one given it's large population in comparison to countries like Norway.

Was there some other point that you had? I don't see it in your post.

Reply Score: 1

Article not entirely accurate....
by polaris20 on Thu 20th Sep 2007 17:55 UTC
polaris20
Member since:
2005-07-06

Or perhaps not timely:

http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Linux-coders-crack-Apple-...

The Touch (as well as new Nano and Classic, I believe) already been cracked to work on open source software.

Edited 2007-09-20 17:55

Reply Score: 1

Pseudo Cyborg Member since:
2005-07-09

But that's the community's effort, not Apple's. There's a big difference there.

Reply Score: 7

polaris20 Member since:
2005-07-06

But that's the community's effort, not Apple's. There's a big difference there.

Ah, true. Good point.

Reply Score: 2

Thoughts
by Buck on Thu 20th Sep 2007 17:57 UTC
Buck
Member since:
2005-06-29

If my understanding is correct, the noise in EU is all about having one single iTunes store to serve all the songs. And I also second that comment about iTunes being unavailable in many parts of Europe or the world... Either way, it sucks to know that US store has all those songs you want to buy, but you go to your local store and find like 20% content of the US store. It's a shame really. I don't think Apple is to blame here though, the labels probably impose those limitations.
So here's to one unified worldwide iTunes store and they can have leave prices as they are now.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Thoughts
by mini-me on Thu 20th Sep 2007 18:06 UTC in reply to "Thoughts"
mini-me Member since:
2005-07-06

the problem with this is that recording companies have been running their businesses somewhat independently in each and every country, making one unified store somewhat of a problem because different countries get releases in different time periods (THE reason behind region coding mind you).

In reality Apple (and any other company for that matter - amazon, microsoft, walmart, whoever) should be able to sell what's on their digital store to anyone in the world. Movies, shows, music and audiobooks available worldwide at the same time - that's the power of the internet.

Saddly I think that apple has been help back by the mentality of the brick-and-mortar store

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Thoughts
by cyrilleberger on Thu 20th Sep 2007 19:01 UTC in reply to "RE: Thoughts"
cyrilleberger Member since:
2006-02-01

The problem is that preventing someone from the EU to buy a song or whatever else in a different country of the EU is illegal, it's breaking the rules of the common market. Living in France, I should be allowed to buy my songs in England or Germany. Beside the fact that the European Commission is allready investigating that issue due to multiple complaints, this is not the point of the BBC journalist.

What he says in his article is that Apple is using a dominant position to force consumers to buy other products from Apple, and that the recent ruling against Microsoft is setting a case law that should be used against Apple.

Reply Score: 9

RE[3]: Thoughts
by protagonist on Thu 20th Sep 2007 21:46 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Thoughts"
protagonist Member since:
2005-07-06

But that makes no sense at all. You don't have to own any other Apple HW to use an iPod, or a Mac, or just about any other Apple HW I can think of. And you don't have to use an iPod with music purchased from Apple. I really can't see how anyone is being locked in. Almost all the music I have I could put on just about any other player out there.

I see no reason why Apple should have to share proprietary information unless you are willing to make all proprietary information illegal. It seems to me to be a case of "Apple should be forced to tell me all their secrets so I can compete against them with an inferior product"... If you want to compete, build a better product.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Thoughts
by zsitvaij on Fri 21st Sep 2007 14:51 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Thoughts"
zsitvaij Member since:
2006-06-14

I see no reason why Microsoft should have to share proprietary information unless you are willing to make all proprietary information illegal. It seems to be a case of "Microsoft should be forced to tell me all their secrets so I can compete against them with an inferior product"... If you want to compete, build a better product.


Fix'd. See the problem now?

Reply Score: 2

Missing The Point...
by macUser on Thu 20th Sep 2007 18:02 UTC
macUser
Member since:
2006-12-15

They want Apple to open up its architecture? Apple can't open up access to songs they have no right to open access to. Sure Apple is a high profile target, but the real culprit are the labels.

Do they want to force Apple to license fairplay?

Why not kill the snake at the head rather than cut off the tail?

Edited 2007-09-20 18:03

Reply Score: 7

RE: Missing The Point...
by mini-me on Thu 20th Sep 2007 18:08 UTC in reply to "Missing The Point..."
mini-me Member since:
2005-07-06

Amen! Down with DRM!

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Missing The Point...
by Quoth_the_Raven on Thu 20th Sep 2007 23:02 UTC in reply to "RE: Missing The Point..."
Quoth_the_Raven Member since:
2005-11-15

Um...

Isn't that what Steve Jobs called for earlier in the year?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Missing The Point...
by Pseudo Cyborg on Thu 20th Sep 2007 18:09 UTC in reply to "Missing The Point..."
Pseudo Cyborg Member since:
2005-07-09

Very well said.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Missing The Point...
by Timmmm on Thu 20th Sep 2007 19:42 UTC in reply to "Missing The Point..."
Timmmm Member since:
2006-07-25

Except that they have blocked third party applications (e.g. Rhythmbox or Amarok) from even uploading songs onto the iPod. As far as I understand anyway. I don't think this has anything to do with DRM.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Missing The Point...
by LobalSurgery on Thu 20th Sep 2007 20:09 UTC in reply to "RE: Missing The Point..."
LobalSurgery Member since:
2006-09-07

The interoperability of downloaded music files and MP3 players has everything to do with DRM. If every legal download service offered songs in MP3 format, without DRM, wouldn't they play on every single player? Here, the blame lies firmly with the labels.

Apple is already selling a limited amount of songs without DRM (from only one label willing to try it so far). They cost more, track by track, but are the same price if you buy an entire album. It's a big step in the right direction, but if other labels don't follow then it'll have been nothing more than a cool experiment.

However, tying an iPod exclusively to iTunes is a valid complaint. They make much more money on the iPod you've already bought than the songs you might buy on the iTunes store: ~3.5 billion songs spread over 100 million iPods is only 35 songs per iPod (and of the $1 they get for each song, maybe $0.10 is profit). This shouldn't be as a big a deal to Apple as it appears to be.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Missing The Point...
by tyrione on Thu 20th Sep 2007 21:13 UTC in reply to "RE: Missing The Point..."
tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

Can you use a Zune to access iTunes?

Can use use an iPod to access WMA 10 media files from Microsoft?

Edited 2007-09-20 21:14

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Missing The Point...
by JrezIN on Fri 21st Sep 2007 01:08 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Missing The Point..."
JrezIN Member since:
2005-06-29

"Can use use an iPod to access WMA 10 media files from Microsoft?"

The very interesting thing about that question is:
If they wanted, Apple could just license WMx DRM into iPod (and by just supporting MTP, it could be used with WMP too like most of Digital Audio Players), but right now MS, and also any other manufacturer, could not support Apple's DRM.

Of course MS' DRM is bad as Apple's, but the point is really something to think about...
...reminds me the new Discovery's show: Most Evil.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Missing The Point...
by dagw on Fri 21st Sep 2007 09:58 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Missing The Point..."
dagw Member since:
2005-07-06

Can use use an iPod to access WMA 10 media files from Microsoft?

The interesting question is why can't you access WMA 10 files with your iPod. Is it because Microsoft refuses to license the technology or is it because Apple refuses to pay MS for access. Without evidence I strongly suspect it's the former and thus making the whole situation very different.

If Jobs called MS tomorrow and said "I want WMA 10 working on the iPod" I'm sure MS would be accomodating. Apple on the other hand are refusing to let others play their itms files.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Missing The Point...
by polaris20 on Thu 20th Sep 2007 20:15 UTC in reply to "Missing The Point..."
polaris20 Member since:
2005-07-06

Exactly. I think a lot of people mistakenly think it's all Apple, while actually a good portion of it are constraints applied by the (arguably more evil than MS) record labels.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Missing The Point...
by vikramsharma on Fri 21st Sep 2007 04:07 UTC in reply to "Missing The Point..."
vikramsharma Member since:
2005-07-06

It's easy to cut the tail than to strike at the head. It's these music labels (goons) who force companies like Apple to force DRM, the music labels always go scot free.

Reply Score: 1

EU's misguided
by ssa2204 on Thu 20th Sep 2007 18:18 UTC
ssa2204
Member since:
2006-04-22

Doesn't it seem the obvious solution is to just avoid purchasing some overhyped music player in favor of a unit that is lower cost with larger storage anyways? My point is while Apple is the most controling and vender lock-in of any company out there, they do have that right. It is not as if we HAVE to purchase from Apple. On the same token Apple are free to write their software for any platform they want. Complaints that Linux users are out of luck is meaningless really, consider if Apple chose to only support Apple computers and OS. While I find it personally unappealing, hence why I can never see myself owning an Apple product, I do understand at least to a point. What is next, are they going to force Apple to release OSX for the PC (i.e. non Apple computers)?

I just think the EU needs to stay out of this, like many other areas as well. Personal feelings just do not warrant legal action. As I said, while I personally find everything written in this article to be annoying factors of Apple, I do not see at all how this is the EU's business.

Reply Score: 9

RE: EU's misguided
by anda_skoa on Thu 20th Sep 2007 19:51 UTC in reply to "EU's misguided"
anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

...I do not see at all how this is the EU's business.


It becomes the EU's business when the result is a EU treaty which guarantees that a customer's nationality, as long as they are citizens of an EU country, does not put any restricitons on trading.

Obviously this isn't purely Apple's fault which is why the respective hearing also has participants from the media industry.

Reply Score: 4

RE: EU's misguided
by deb2006 on Thu 20th Sep 2007 20:51 UTC in reply to "EU's misguided"
deb2006 Member since:
2006-06-26

Nope. The EU wants competition. If a player doesn't follow that rule and tries to sneak out on this, the EU forces him to play by their rules. In the case of Microsoft this is more than justified. In the case of Apple's music business, I think it is something that could very well happen. Not right now, but in the near future, I guess.

Reply Score: 1

RE: EU's misguided
by protagonist on Thu 20th Sep 2007 21:56 UTC in reply to "EU's misguided"
protagonist Member since:
2005-07-06

I can never understand how anyone can say Apple is so controlling. I have an iPod and I can play almost all of my music on just about any player out there. Owning an iPod locks you into nothing. Owning a mac locks you into nothing. I can run Linux on my PPC based Mac and I also get a lot of software for OS X from SourceForge. If I decide to buy a PC the HW I have attached to my Mac can be moved over to the PC.

If you want to feel locked in run Windows. Anyone who lets Apple lock them into their HW probably is to naive to own a computer anyway.

Reply Score: 8

RE[2]: EU's misguided
by kernelpanicked on Fri 21st Sep 2007 00:39 UTC in reply to "RE: EU's misguided"
kernelpanicked Member since:
2006-02-01

"I have an iPod"..."I can run Linux on my PPC based Mac"

That says it all right there. Since you have a Mac, of course you have no interoperability problems with the ipod. I'm willing to bet if you had a PC (with any OS, take your pick) you might feel slightly different.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: EU's misguided
by protagonist on Sat 22nd Sep 2007 17:36 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: EU's misguided"
protagonist Member since:
2005-07-06

Wrong again. I have a PC running PC-BSD and I don't feel any differently about it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: EU's misguided
by Finalzone on Fri 21st Sep 2007 02:21 UTC in reply to "RE: EU's misguided"
Finalzone Member since:
2005-07-06

Owning a mac locks you into nothing.


It does when one of Apple hardware component broke without warning or is defective and you have to deal with Apple poor customer service charging you fee just for the estimation. I am sure there are pissed Apple owner who feel the company tried to steal money from them after spending so much amount on MacBook who did not last six months.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: EU's misguided
by evangs on Fri 21st Sep 2007 06:17 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: EU's misguided"
evangs Member since:
2005-07-07

So if your Dell/IBM/HP/$PC_MANUFACTURER laptop broke you'd be able to get someone else to repair it for you? You're clutching at straws.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: EU's misguided
by Finalzone on Fri 21st Sep 2007 07:30 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: EU's misguided"
Finalzone Member since:
2005-07-06

Please read carefully. This is Apple hardware we are dealing, not Dell/IBM/whatever PC laptop. AFAIK, you cannot use a PC component onto Apple hardware when you have one year warranty from the manufacturer. The computer store Future Shop that sold me the MacBook (only four months) cannot even open the box to fear voiding the warranty so I went to Apple approved repair store in the cities. Instead, I got bullied just to get the diagnostic for the issue I have already knew (a defective hard drive). I attempted to call Apple about the issue for two hours and ended up pissed off when one of representative told me to send that defective MacBook for a fee.

I never thought it would be hard to get a decent service from Apple. I have a reason to be angry especially when you shelled nearly USD2500 including warranty and service. At the end, I sent it to a local store even though the warranty will be void.

I apologize to be sightly off-topic. When it comes to music, Apple should take a good example by supporting open format like OGG Vorbis instead of proprietary format. With the recent incident above as a customer and an intentional attempt to prevent third parties softwares to use Ipod, I am afraid Apple is nothing more than a sneaky monopoly in that issue. Until they are completely changed their attitudes, I will no longer buy any Apple products.

This is the end of my rant.

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: EU's misguided
by MrSidecar on Fri 21st Sep 2007 08:31 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: EU's misguided"
MrSidecar Member since:
2007-02-13

Excuse me, could you clarify? If you own a MacBook, and if you have a defective Harddrive, it should be replaceable without opening the MacBook. Check this:

http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/MacBook_13inch_HardDrive_DIY.pdf

I might very well miss something here or misunderstand you, but also the price seems quite high for a MacBook. Are you talking about a MacBook Pro, maybe (would explain the hard drive exchange thing)?

Edited 2007-09-21 08:32

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: EU's misguided
by Finalzone on Fri 21st Sep 2007 08:47 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: EU's misguided"
Finalzone Member since:
2005-07-06

Definitively MacBook. The price includes taxes and warranty from manufacturer and retailer (in Canada). I would expect the service to tell me about replacing hard drive but none of them did. I have already sent to repair anyway.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: EU's misguided
by protagonist on Sat 22nd Sep 2007 03:20 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: EU's misguided"
protagonist Member since:
2005-07-06

I have had to deal with Apple's support on several occasions. I found it to be fast, and quite good. And the total cost to me was nothing, nil, gratis, free. And both times the equipment was under warranty and was shipped overnight. Perhaps you do not read Consumer Reports, but for the last few years Apple has been at the top in the support catagory.

One of the instances was the caps Lock lite on my keyboard went out. I told then it was not urgent, but the item was shipped the next morning and I received it the following day.

And I still say buying the Apple equipment I have has locked me into nothing. And I do know people with PC's and iPods and they are quite happy with them.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: EU's misguided
by Lobotomik on Fri 21st Sep 2007 06:58 UTC in reply to "RE: EU's misguided"
Lobotomik Member since:
2006-01-03

Using iTunes Music Store locks you into using Apple hardware and software. If I spent 1000 in iTMS and then my ipod fell out of my shirt pocket and into the toilet, I'd absolutely have to buy another iPod, even if I found another brand cheaper and/or better.

Music downloaded from iTMS won't play in my car's player (or in any car stereo of anybody I know). If I want to listen to it in my car, I have to burn an audio CD (and then possibly rerip to MP3).

And I can legally sell or lend my CDs, but Apple does not let me do the same with the music I spend my money on in iTMS.

Sure, Apple lets me do whatever I want, as long as I sheepishly do what they allow me to do.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: EU's misguided
by vikramsharma on Fri 21st Sep 2007 07:44 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: EU's misguided"
vikramsharma Member since:
2005-07-06

You can download DRM free music, which is encoded at a higher bit rate from apple, I don't think that DRM free songs would only play on iPods or iTunes for that matter. I think you can convert the m4a songs from apple to mp3 directly without burning the CDs. DRM free music is being sold on iTunes music store.

Being confined to iPod does suck, but then again there are not many/any mp3 player that can be compared to the iPod in terms of quality vs cost.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: EU's misguided
by Lobotomik on Fri 21st Sep 2007 09:00 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: EU's misguided"
Lobotomik Member since:
2006-01-03

You can buy *some* DRM free music, only from certain music companies.

As for quality vs cost, the iPod is OK, but it is VERY arguable whether that it is the best.

The shuffle simply sucks compared with devices from Creative Labs or Sandisk (to name two) of similar size and lower price, which feature a small screen and a radio tuner, and which don't play Apple's dirty lock-in tricks. They lack Steve Jobs' reality distorsion field, however, so you don't feel as cool paying more to get so much less. Oh, and they are really not as pretty.

Nanos are extremely cool but, again, there are comparable devices on the market that include FM radios and recorders, and play other audio and video formats than Apple's own.

And the price of iPod accesories is o-u-t-r-a-g-e-o-u-s! Thankfully you can often use those designed for generic audio equipment which may offer far better quality at a fraction of the cost.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: EU's misguided
by protagonist on Sat 22nd Sep 2007 03:30 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: EU's misguided"
protagonist Member since:
2005-07-06

Last time I checked, most of the music I have on my iPod will play on almost any player on the market. And all without burning it to a CD first. I fail to see how that is a monopoly by any definition. All my music is backed up to online storage and I can play about 75% of it on any computer with an high speed internet connection. Some monopoly.

One would have to be pretty naive to let Apple lock one into there hardware just because you bought an iPod. I can simply export songs to a flash drive, plug it into another computer and play my music. Please explain to me how I am locked into the iPod.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: EU's misguided
by phoenix on Fri 21st Sep 2007 22:43 UTC in reply to "RE: EU's misguided"
phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

I can never understand how anyone can say Apple is so controlling. I have an iPod and I can play almost all of my music on just about any player out there. Owning an iPod locks you into nothing.


Can you put music on your iPod without using iTunes?

Can you purchase music in iTunes and put it onto a non-iPod player?

Apple music hardware is very much locked into using Apple hardware and/or software. Other MP3 players don't lock you in like this (some try to trick you into believing you can only use their software to manage files on the device, but even most of those support the various USB audio/storage standards).

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: EU's misguided
by protagonist on Sat 22nd Sep 2007 03:37 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: EU's misguided"
protagonist Member since:
2005-07-06

Can you purchase music in Microsofts proprietary format and put it on an iPod? I never said if you buy your music from iTunes you could play it on another player. I said having an iPod does not lock me into Apple. I purchase most of my music from non DRM sources. As such I can do what I want with it.

I repeat, you are only locked into Apple if you let it happen. If the EU really wants to help the consumer they should go after the RIAA and the MPAA and outlaw DRM instead of worrying about Apple and MS. If there were no DRM this whole subject would be moot.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: EU's misguided
by Lobotomik on Sat 22nd Sep 2007 07:33 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: EU's misguided"
Lobotomik Member since:
2006-01-03

>> I can never understand how anyone can say Apple is so controlling.

> Can you put music on your iPod without using iTunes?

You have not answered to that one. Does not Apple force me into using iTunes, and hinder my efforts to use Linux to put the songs I bought into the iPod I bought? Do you understand how can I say they ARE controlling?

> I repeat, you are only locked into Apple if you let it happen.

Yeah, so heroin is not addictive because if you don't do it you don't get addicted. Of course, Apple is not the big brother (yet) and you can freely not buy any of their products. But they should not be allowed a monopoly in the online music distribution.

I agree about the DRM. Without DRM there would be none of these problems. And the most irritating part of DRM is that it only serves to hinder your usage of media YOU SPENT MONEY ON, while achieving NOTHING to impede piracy.

BTW, does not letting me use Rhythmbox to load up my iPod count as DRM?

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: EU's misguided
by protagonist on Sat 22nd Sep 2007 17:45 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: EU's misguided"
protagonist Member since:
2005-07-06

All I can tell you is that if I buy another player I can take almost all my music with me. So no one has yet explained to me how I am locked in. Apple is not forcing you to buy your music from them. You might as well complain about the subscription services locking you in. Now there is true lock in. Drop your subscription and you lose your music.

I really don't think I can answer your questions because you are as convinced you are right as I am so nothing I say will change your mind. Maybe you are locked in, but I am not. It is as simple as that. And the true villain here is not Apple or MS but DRM. You are tilting at the wrong windmill. :-)

Reply Score: 2

a bit premature
by Laurence on Thu 20th Sep 2007 18:29 UTC
Laurence
Member since:
2007-03-26

It's a bit early to screem abuse, however they way they treat their device users is down right evil.

The problem is Microsoft have got away abusing it's monopoly for so long (and even using said tactics to gain a dominant market shair in the first place) that I can't entirely blame Apple for trying to build a market for themselves where-ever they can.

However deliberately breaking connectivity is simply unacceptable in my opinion.

Reply Score: 2

Please...
by MollyC on Thu 20th Sep 2007 18:39 UTC
MollyC
Member since:
2006-07-04

I don't see how a government can force a company to offer its services to countries where it doesn't wish to (for whatever the reason is). Let Apple do what they want. Let someone outcompete them if possible. If not, too bad. I'm tired of government coming in to tell business what to do or try to help competitors that were too incompetent to compete on their own.

Reply Score: 2

Except that ..
by daddio on Thu 20th Sep 2007 19:16 UTC in reply to "Please..."
daddio Member since:
2007-07-14

by offering its services on the internet, it isn't just "not extending" its business, it is actively blocking potential customers. This assuming that the blocked customers have a method of payment that can handle the currencies apple has in place.

I'm sure apple isn't behind these kind of obscene restrictions, but bent over backwards to get the music distribution industry on board.

/rant
I find myself tapping my toes waiting for "Recording Studios" to go back to being recording studios as they lose their power to be the evil overlords of the music they neither write nor perform.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Except that ..
by SReilly on Thu 20th Sep 2007 21:39 UTC in reply to "Except that .."
SReilly Member since:
2006-12-28

I find myself tapping my toes waiting for "Recording Studios" to go back to being recording studios as they lose their power to be the evil overlords of the music they neither write nor perform.

Amen, brother!

I write and play music in a rock band and have to say, the amount of horror stories I have heard from pears is phenomenal.

As for Apple, I think that as long as they are trading in the EU, they need to abide by EU law. They may not be solely responsible but they have signed deals that obviously lead to questionable practices concerning Europe.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Please...
by anda_skoa on Thu 20th Sep 2007 20:04 UTC in reply to "Please..."
anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

I don't see how a government can force a company to offer its services to countries where it doesn't wish to (for whatever the reason is).


It can't and, with the exception of the USA, they don't.

A governmental body, however, maybe entitled by the laws for the governed area, to control business within this area.

I am not sure what respective laws for example there are in the USA, e.g. if a company would be allowed not to sell to people of certain ethnic roots, but likely this is forbidden by the "all people are equal" section of the constitution.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Please...
by Spellcheck on Fri 21st Sep 2007 04:05 UTC in reply to "RE: Please..."
Spellcheck Member since:
2007-01-20

>>if a company would be allowed not to sell to people of certain ethnic roots

Why on earth would this be an appropriate analogy?

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Please...
by anda_skoa on Fri 21st Sep 2007 12:03 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Please..."
anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

Why on earth would this be an appropriate analogy?


Because it would also be singling out certain groups of your customers and also likely be illegal.

European customers might actually be part of the same ethnic group but live in countries with difficult shared past.
However, similar to laws enforcing equality independent of race, religion or gender, EU market laws enforce equality of customers independent of nationality.

So in case people do not have enough background information to understand the trade agreement between EU member nations, they could, through the analogy, understand that violating a law which ensures equality will not be tolerated.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Please...
by Spellcheck on Sat 22nd Sep 2007 05:15 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Please..."
Spellcheck Member since:
2007-01-20

I don't understand the original analogy's appeal to emotion, and I don't understand your reply. Neither seem relevant.

Are you saying that not offering a service throughout euroland is illegal discrimination?

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Please...
by anda_skoa on Sat 22nd Sep 2007 11:54 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Please..."
anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

I don't understand the original analogy's appeal to emotion, and I don't understand your reply. Neither seem relevant.


Some people seem to have problems understanding the principles of equality of EU citizens, so I tried to find an example they might find easier to understand.

Are you saying that not offering a service throughout euroland is illegal discrimination?


Almost. It doesn't matter if the customer is a citizen of an "Euroland" (assuming you mean a country which's currency is the Euro) as long he or she is a citizen of an EU member country.

When a country joins the EU, it basically agrees to treat other EU citziens like their own, at least in trade, travel and job related laws.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Please...
by Spellcheck on Sun 23rd Sep 2007 01:17 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Please..."
Spellcheck Member since:
2007-01-20

Ok... so? We have a foreign company offering a service here, not a member government.

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: Please...
by anda_skoa on Sun 23rd Sep 2007 12:26 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Please..."
anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

Ok... so? We have a foreign company offering a service here, not a member government.


Well, if they only had shops outside the EU, this wouldn't be a problem. However, apparently, they have at least one shop inside and thus fall under the same legislation as anyone else, just like in any other country.

The EU members agreed to unify their markets, so similar to how previously their law applied to all companies doing business withing their borders, they shared law now applies to all companies doing business within the the whole union's territory.

I don't understand why it is so hard to comprehend that for certain areas of interest, i.e. trade, travel, employment, residence, it is against the law to discriminate between citizens of different EU members.

The EC has to deal with violators all the time, the only difference is that this time the violator is somebody who triggers international press.

Reply Score: 2

apple
by happycamper on Thu 20th Sep 2007 19:06 UTC
happycamper
Member since:
2006-01-01

they should, i don't like companies that limits competition and the freedom of choice to the consumer. this is what apple is doing, they are locking in their customers with their products at that point,apple can do whatever they want they have total control of the customer.

Reply Score: 2

RE: apple
by protagonist on Thu 20th Sep 2007 22:01 UTC in reply to "apple "
protagonist Member since:
2005-07-06

I will repeat. Owning an iPod locks you into nothing. You need to do a bit more reading before making such statements. I own an iPod and most of my music can be transferred to almost any player out there. There are other sources of music that can be purchased without DRM. So please explain to me just how I am locked into iTunes...

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: apple
by phoenix on Fri 21st Sep 2007 22:45 UTC in reply to "RE: apple "
phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

Can you put music on your iPod without using iTunes?

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: apple
by Chicken Blood on Sat 22nd Sep 2007 00:00 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: apple "
Chicken Blood Member since:
2005-12-21

Can you put music on your iPod without using iTunes?

Yes. I used EphPod on my 1st gen iPod before iTunes was even available for Windows.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: apple
by protagonist on Sat 22nd Sep 2007 03:40 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: apple "
protagonist Member since:
2005-07-06

Not that I care to, but probably, yes. I have no need to do so as I am perfectly happy with iTunes to manage my music.

Reply Score: 2

RE: apple
by tyrione on Fri 21st Sep 2007 08:16 UTC in reply to "apple "
tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

Don't buy their products.

Reply Score: 3

RE
by Kroc on Thu 20th Sep 2007 19:08 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

DRM has not bothered me so far. There are many places to shop elsewhere, and iTunes DRM is very fair, and easily removed in a worse case scenario.

What really, really, really gets me, is when Apple takes away the abilities for me to manage my non iTunes purchased music. The ringtone racket for example.

If I have a creative commons song that I created, I own the rights to that song. Me, not the RIAA, not any music group, not Apple - Me. Why then, can I not use it as a ringtone when I own the very rights to the song? It's a behaviour that is going to bite Apple back eventually.

Reply Score: 4

Odd
by tweakedenigma on Thu 20th Sep 2007 19:09 UTC
tweakedenigma
Member since:
2006-12-27

I find it odd that Apple would try to prevent people on Linux from using their player on OS's they don't support. I mean all this will do is keep me from buying an Ipod as I wont be able to use it with my computer, someone else will get my money and it will be Apples loss. Also with the Ipod and Itunes you don't have to use the Music store to get your music you can use other companies or rip your Cd's and place it on the Ipod so you are not really locked in there.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Odd
by Kroc on Thu 20th Sep 2007 19:49 UTC in reply to "Odd"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

People are misunderstanding "preventing", and "not testing on". Apple are making changes to their software and products with no regard to testing on Linux. Apple do not test to see if they are breaking Linux support or not. The library hash may have been to detect library corruption, or for security.

It would be like blaming Microsoft for doing an update to a program that used one API that wasn't working in WINE. It's not Microsoft's responsibility, end of! The same applies of Apple, until they official support the platform.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Odd
by JrezIN on Thu 20th Sep 2007 20:37 UTC in reply to "RE: Odd"
JrezIN Member since:
2005-06-29

"People are misunderstanding "preventing", and "not testing on"."

The way they blocked the video out via video cable in new iPods doesn't look like it was just an update... clearly it was done to stop third parties (and even official ones, as the cable isn't used anymore just because it "just work" and Apple want to force authenticated chips/docks/etc)...

Simply, everything they've done until now can't be overlooked, and all these things points to anti-costumer and anti-competition practices.
It's not about defending your favorite hardware/software maker, it's about costumer interest, standards and pro-competiton practices.

Reply Score: 8

RE[2]: Odd
by Nelson on Thu 20th Sep 2007 22:06 UTC in reply to "RE: Odd"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

I agree, people are blowing the Linux thing out of proportion.

It is stated quite clearly it's not a supported platform, therefore changes made to the iPod may not be in the best interest of the Linux camp.

How did the iTunes Linux alternative come to exist? Third party development, how did the work around to the checksum come to exist? Third party development.

You see the part where Apple takes no role in the development?

Reply Score: 0

Apple do wrost than Microsoft
by xsun on Thu 20th Sep 2007 19:10 UTC
xsun
Member since:
2006-12-11

Maybe I'll be a bit off-topic here but I need to share that ideas out with people who think at the same manner than me. Companys like Microsoft and Apple don't only apply a unjust barrier to legal market competition as the article said, but they contribute for customers imprision to their devices. The customer or the _user_ has the right to decide where and how they will buy and play the music.

Apple do worst than Microsoft because disscuss against systems DRMization[1], but in pratice force the user to use only Apple applications to share, buy and play the music. Microsoft its clearly in favor of DRM and we could expect a lot of DRM stuff in their products, but what we could expect on Apple products? How we could trust in a company who it make a speeches from one form and don't work in agreement with their own speech?

IMO, we can't trust in any company who threat our freedoms. Microsoft play dirty with users freedom but Apple is more treacherous. Apple is an enemy which want look like an friend.

[1] - http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/

[Edit: Title correction - I tryed to correct the title but isn't working]

Edited 2007-09-20 19:15 UTC

Reply Score: 4

skingers6894 Member since:
2005-08-10

"Apple do worst than Microsoft because disscuss against systems DRMization[1], but in pratice force the user to use only Apple applications to share, buy and play the music"

No they don't. Start Firefox -> go to eMusic.com -> right click download -> drag file to iTunes -> sync to iPod - done. Could not be much easier.

Reply Score: 1

I hope they do...
by JrezIN on Thu 20th Sep 2007 19:23 UTC
JrezIN
Member since:
2005-06-29

This should have done a long time ago.

But in a time were 3rd party accessories are locked down, music database has another hash "encryption" to disable 3rd party (and open source) programs to access and update the device's database...

...let alone it not supporting not having a simple USB interface directly in the device compatible with standard cables and the necessity to use a program at all, as many devices are smart enough to work in UMS mode and update its database on-fly.

It doesn't really matter if you like Apple or not (this isn't about football team's flags), it's all about standards and costumer choice/freedom. When Apple have such market share, it should not be a choice to Apple support standards or not, they should HAVE too.
We don't need yet another Microsoft.

Reply Score: 5

They're partway there
by MechR on Thu 20th Sep 2007 20:19 UTC
MechR
Member since:
2006-01-11

Interestingly, I got into a related discussion the other day where someone criticized Apple for "banning" non-iTunes sellers from the iPod, and resisting France's anti-DRM law.

I figured that problem came from Apple not licensing out its FairPlay DRM. But it's now a moot point because they sell non-DRM'ed tracks themselves. Only those still clinging to DRM are "banned" now, which is a good thing. So at least in that sense, Apple is now open.

Re: Ringtones, the issues there are largely due to music-label/telco greed. At 99c, Apple is actually underselling other parties by half, last I checked.

I can understand the complaints against iTunes software lock-in though.

Reply Score: 1

EU is just going after an easy target.
by mkone on Thu 20th Sep 2007 20:24 UTC
mkone
Member since:
2006-03-14

Never mind that Jobs has already come out into the open and said he would rather there was no DRM on downloaded music.

And to put his money where his mouth is, actually managed to pull of a deal to have DRM free tracks on iTunes.

Apple has long said they want to control their DRM because it is the only way for it to be effective, while being as flexible as it is already. That is the only way they can guarantee the labels that it cannot be broken, and if it is, that it will be fixed. But the DRM issue is a red herring anyway. The real issue is that music downloads would be better served by not having DRM at all, and there is nothing besides lobbying the labels that Apple can do about it.

Besides, most stores do not sell AAC tracks, but rather WMA tracks, and the lock in from iTunes is next to non existent since most music on those iPods is not from the store. Apple is as much a monopoly as BMW is because they are the only ones to make BMW cars.

Reply Score: 2

Yeah
by Xaero_Vincent on Thu 20th Sep 2007 20:48 UTC
Xaero_Vincent
Member since:
2006-08-18

I think its time for Apple to face the music.

Apple has adopted similar business practices as Microsoft and have gotten a free ride far too long.

When a monopoly becomes so powerful that it marginalizes competition, governments need to step in and intervene.

Reply Score: 6

Americans have trouble with this
by alcibiades on Thu 20th Sep 2007 20:51 UTC
alcibiades
Member since:
2005-10-12

Americans have trouble with this, because they do not grasp that the European Commission is a bit like the FTC.

Just as there are rules for Interstate Commerce in the US, so there are rules for Interstate Commerce in the EU. One of the rules is, you shall be able to buy from any state in the EU, regardless of where you live. It is not legal to restrict imports in any way. As the car industry has found to its cost.

So, if Apple prevents you from buying from the German store because you live in France, its breaking the law. Of the EU. Which, in this respect, is like the Federal Government of the US. The fact that the EU consists of different countries is immaterial. That's the law in the EU.

Whether you do this with the collusion of the record companies is immaterial. In the same way, you cannot refuse to ship CDs to another country. Doesn't matter what the record companies want. Its just illegal.

Hope this helps.

By the way, this is why its called a Single Market.

Edited 2007-09-20 20:53

Reply Score: 15

Spellcheck Member since:
2007-01-20

* Offer void in Tennessee.

Reply Score: 1

tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

Bitch the the German Commerce Department. They set it up that way.

Economically, it's much simpler for Apple to deal with the Euro alone and let the country deal with their own VAT taxes.

VAT taxes vary.

Dealing specifically with each country and their taxing system is a reason why there is also multiple Apple Web Store Fronts.

Reply Score: 2

anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

Dealing specifically with each country and their taxing system is a reason why there is also multiple Apple Web Store Fronts.


Not very likely. Austria and Germany have different taxes, but I, being an Austrian, can still buy in Amanzon's Germany online shop.

Reply Score: 2

irbis
Member since:
2005-07-08

It is good that Apple iTunes supports other media formats than only the poor old MP3 too. But in general online music business may still be too tied to the relatively low quality MP3 file format. At least to me MP3 means "Mediocare & Poor 3rd class quality", the C-cassette of the digital age. If you want small file size, MP3 may be rather ok, but that's about its only benefit.

Well, I'm sure that to lots of people - to whom good music may mostly mean good looking chicks or dudes shaking their booties in front of camera, or maybe extremely loud (and simple) riffs if the actually listen too - MP3 file format may be ok and they couldn't care much less if it is MP3 or something else..? But people who do care for actual music the file format quality matters a lot too.

So my hint to online music stores, offer something better than just MP3, and you could see more increase in your sales. In my opinion every good online music store should offer lossless audio formats. If they don't, people will rather just buy CDs (or many will download better quality lossless audio from Bittorrents - free). File size is not so big an issue anymore either as fast broadcast Internet connections and huge storage capacities are becoming mainstream.

Reply Score: 4

protagonist Member since:
2005-07-06

While you won't find the latest "manufactured" artists on the site, try www.magnatune.com and check them out. You can only purchase albums, but the price is reasonable and you can download the music as full quality wav files. And the also use loss-less compression formats that are about half the size of wav files. And the songs play just fine on the Apple player that so may people claim locks you into Apple. :-)

Reply Score: 3

MollyC Member since:
2006-07-04

http://MusicGiants.com/ offers lossless audio, and *only* lossless audio. They also offer 5.1 recordings, such as Pink Floyd's "Dark Side Of The Moon".

Reply Score: 1

DigitalAxis Member since:
2005-08-28

I just clicked on that link and before too long I got "We're sorry, only Microsoft Internet Explorer is supported."

So close, and yet so far.

Oh, and it did work with Opera pretending to be IE, so there.

Edited 2007-09-21 04:32

Reply Score: 2

Snifflez Member since:
2005-11-15

Buy PF's "Dark Side of the Moon" for $14 to $20???

I'm sorry, what's the effing point of this online store? I can get a CD for less than that, case, booklet, lyrics, etc., all included.

What a rip-off.

Not to mention, the piece of s--t site only works with IE.

Like I said, what a rip-off.

Reply Score: 3

Why do people even pose this question?
by Clinton on Thu 20th Sep 2007 22:04 UTC
Clinton
Member since:
2005-07-05

I am sick of hearing "how come Microsoft's in trouble and Apple isn't".

What Microsoft has done is used their Windows monopoly to force IE, WMP, etc. down the throats of consumers by not only bundling these programs with the OS, but actually making it so the OS won't work without them (or so they say). They have used the dominance of their OS to kill competition either by tying their own versions of competing programs to their OS, or changing their OS so things like Samba don't work as well as they could otherwise.

All Apple has done is made an MP3 player like everybody else, but they've added value by creating the iTunes store to go along with it. Even if Apple says, you can't use iTunes without and iPod and vice versa, you still have the option to buy any number of other players and use any number of other music services (or P2P).

The only way you could compare Microsoft and Apple would be if Apple owned the mechanism of creating MP3s and they altered the technology so other MP3 players could no longer play the MP3 standard, or could only play songs in mono instead of stereo. Once Apple has that kind of control over the market and doesn't something that kills all other MP3 player manufacturers, then this article's author might have a point.

Reply Score: 2

PlatformAgnostic Member since:
2006-01-02

You can also buy other OSes than Windows and not be dominated by the big, bad, evil Microsoft. But Windows dominates the market so there isn't much benefit to going with the competitors. iPod is the same way. There are alternatives, but they are less desireable due to the "labels barrier to entry." It's hard to get music on your iPod from an online store without iTunes. They are artifically making it so that the iPod cannot function without iTunes. They are using their dominance in the MP3 player market to gain dominance in the flegling online music distribution market.

<sarcasm> And Neelie Kroes should not rest on her laurels until something is done about this travesty of monopolization. There should be a 100 million Euro fine just for a warmup! </sarcasm>

I personally think all of this is baloney and neither Microsoft nor Apple should be fined for past actions. Especially not on the basis of, and the judgement of, their complaining competitors. The most sensible course of action is to set out a bunch of rules for a market and make an agreement between the dominant firm and the government to allow market conditions which would allow competition without predisposing the outcome. Fines do not help this and vague rulings do not either.

Reply Score: 2

anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

I personally think all of this is baloney and neither Microsoft nor Apple should be fined for past actions.


In case you are implying that they are fined for actions before the rules against abusive behavior have been enacted, be assured they aren't.

They are fined for violating the rules after they became active.

The most sensible course of action is to set out a bunch of rules for a market...


This is what has happened, unfortunately some companies think they don't apply to them.

Also unfortunately the way the regulations are written, the government has to use fines first and only if they prove ineffective they can switch to real measures.
Interestingly so far any abuse of EU market law so far as been solved at the fine stage, even those involving powerful car manufacturers

Reply Score: 3

Clinton Member since:
2005-07-05

The difference is this: The competition that Microsoft is trying to squash is relying on Microsoft's OS to make their money. What does a Linux user or a Mac user care if IE is bundled into Windows? They don't. It is the companies that are trying to create programs for Windows that are crying foul. These companies cannot survive without Windows and without a level playing field on Windows.

That situtation simply doesn't exist with regards to iPods and iTunes by any stretch of the imagination.

Reply Score: 1

and
by Mellin on Thu 20th Sep 2007 22:43 UTC
Mellin
Member since:
2005-07-06

like pay microsoft for a licens to use playsforsure on the iPods ?

Reply Score: 1

Funny
by Wintermute on Fri 21st Sep 2007 02:56 UTC
Wintermute
Member since:
2005-07-30

It's funny to see how whenever we have an article critical of Apple, we get a flood of apologist posts.

Suddenly, osnews has became a haven for neoliberal economics. Drop the bullshit fanboys! The "government should not interfere with Apple!" BS is not convincing. This has nothing to do with "open access" to Apple's products, it has everything to do with EU being a common market. If you guys were real supporters of neoliberal economics you would realize that Apple's behavior isn't just a matter of inflexible labels and regional variation in copyright law. You think Apple isn't happy to differentiate the European market? How stupid (and naive) do you have to be to think that Apple's price differentials through Europe is just a matter of poor Apple dealing with labels and red tape?

Stop giving excuses for Apple's behavior. While Jobs might have condemned DRM, are you guys seriously stupid enough to believe that Apple doesn't love the fact that fairplay essentially gives the iTunes music store a virtual monopoly.

I also really enjoyed the excuses on why iPods shouldn't be able to interface with third party players. The comment about Linux not being a priority for Apple is particularly funny considering that blocking 3rd party applications has nothing to do with linux. It's all about iTunes tie in.

The jobs worshiping on this site is really approaching monumental proportions.

"And to put his money where his mouth is, actually managed to pull of a deal to have DRM free tracks on iTunes. "

WOW, what a revolution!!! Please, EMI was interested in selling non-DRM tracks for a while. I am not even going to comment on having to pay extra for non-DRM tracks. This is just doing business.

To all you fanboys, you need to learn to use the right tool for the job and not take shit from anyone. This includes Apple, Microsoft and various movements with the OSS world. Learn to be skeptical towards Apple. They are just another company.

Reply Score: 9

RE: Funny
by Spellcheck on Sat 22nd Sep 2007 05:20 UTC in reply to "Funny"
Spellcheck Member since:
2007-01-20

Apple's customers, if they knew what it meant, would want the hardware open. Music labels want control over music sales. It's a tug of war with Apple making decisions to appease both sides and stay in the business. If they can't manage it, somebody else can try to do it better.

Now, why would you want to force them to do anything?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Funny
by Wintermute on Sat 22nd Sep 2007 05:51 UTC in reply to "RE: Funny"
Wintermute Member since:
2005-07-30

I never questioned the idea that a "tug of war" is involved. I am only saying that you need to look at Apple's actions more critically. Don't pretend that Jobs is trying to help out the consumer by advocating removal of DRM, he is simply doing what needs to be done to make money.

Apple is out there to make money, and they are willing to go pretty far maintain profitability.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Funny
by Spellcheck on Sun 23rd Sep 2007 01:16 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Funny"
Spellcheck Member since:
2007-01-20

Indeed, that's my point. I think many people are taking advanced assumptions regarding unlikely motives, which lead us to bizarre threads of people talking past each other with regulation this and cabal that.

+1 for you, sir.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Funny
by Spellcheck on Sat 22nd Sep 2007 05:22 UTC in reply to "Funny"
Spellcheck Member since:
2007-01-20

price differentials


It's called arbitrage. Look into it.

Reply Score: 0

eMusic
by skingers6894 on Fri 21st Sep 2007 04:04 UTC
skingers6894
Member since:
2005-08-10

I use eMusic all the time. The other day I downloaded the new "spoon" album. Dragged the files to iTunes and they worked on my iPod and guess what? They would work on Creative or even Zune too. I could even play them on a Linux based computer(gasp).

How is this magic possible?

No DRM.

The result everyone really needs is for Apple NOT to be forced to license fairplay and for the industry to be forced to abandon DRM. If DRM free tracks were available everywhere then fairplay would become an irrelevancy.

On the other hand if Apple is forced to license fairplay then it will only serve to prolong this disastrous DRM idea.

What people seem to be missing here with the so called Apple "lock in" is that iPods work with DRM-free tracks. The lock in is only there because the labels insist on DRM. Simple as that. If Apple were really about the lock-in then protected-AAC would be the only thing it would support. In fact most of the formats supported on the iPod are DRM-Free and totally portable.

Kill DRM, then it's a "free for all" for competition, and then may the best service win.

Reply Score: 2

Is it time for the BBC to face an EU enquiry?
by alban on Fri 21st Sep 2007 06:36 UTC
alban
Member since:
2005-11-15

Columnist Bill Thompson at the BBC asks whether the time has come for Apple to be put under the EU microscope..

The BBC with its large UK taxpayer subsidised online presence unfairly competes with commercial news agencies.. Is it time that the EU investigated the BBC?

Reply Score: 0

Read this before you judge!
by affect on Fri 21st Sep 2007 10:20 UTC
affect
Member since:
2006-09-27
Encrypted?
by Darkelve on Sun 23rd Sep 2007 13:56 UTC
Darkelve
Member since:
2006-02-06

An encrypted music database? That's certainly not music to my ears... why does the consumer need this again and in what way does s/he benefit?

Edited 2007-09-23 13:56

Reply Score: 2