Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 31st Oct 2007 19:37 UTC, submitted by Kelly Rush
SkyOS SkyOS has received a few updates. First, the new theme engine makes it possible to completely theme SkyOS, without having to write even a single line of code. Furthermore, with only minor changes, WindowBlinds and MS Visual Style (WindowsXP or Vista) themes can be converted to the SkyOS theme format. Additionally, the Viewer (file browsing application) has a new feature called 'NavigationView', which makes it possible to possible to navigate to your devices and manage files easier and faster.
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Will it ever be released?
by jdrake on Wed 31st Oct 2007 19:52 UTC
jdrake
Member since:
2005-07-07

Will there ever be a real release of skyos? It seems to follow the general development model of e17, that being continuous modification without a final product.

Reply Score: 6

RE: Will it ever be released?
by stestagg on Wed 31st Oct 2007 19:59 UTC in reply to "Will it ever be released?"
stestagg Member since:
2006-06-03

Is that such a bad thing?

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: Will it ever be released?
by Isolationist on Wed 31st Oct 2007 20:18 UTC in reply to "RE: Will it ever be released?"
Isolationist Member since:
2006-05-28

Yes it is bad thing, just look at E-17 ... oh wait a minute, we are not talking about the pop band right? ;)

Edited 2007-10-31 20:19

Reply Score: 3

RE: Will it ever be released?
by zizban on Wed 31st Oct 2007 22:16 UTC in reply to "Will it ever be released?"
zizban Member since:
2005-07-06

Yup, SkyOS is set to move out of beta phase by year's end but not to a public release. Most of the new features are there and stable now there are some apps Robert wants to port/code and some love for the default UI.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Will it ever be released?
by phate on Thu 1st Nov 2007 05:37 UTC in reply to "Will it ever be released?"
phate Member since:
2005-07-09

Please review your comment and replace SkyOS with your OS or application of choice and reread.

When is anything ever finished? If Microsoft was finished with windows, they wouldn't have invested millions into windows update, if apple was finished with the iPhone why did they just release the 1.1.1 Firmware? Hell they just put out Leopard and its in the same state as it was in beta. When is a product final? When they ship it? when the stop supporting it? Does it really matter? Each piece of software has its own development style.

I hereby deem your comment irrelevent.

Reply Score: 2

gavin.mccord Member since:
2005-09-07

When is anything ever finished?


Isn't TeX finished ?

Reply Score: 2

Lakedaemon Member since:
2005-08-07

TeX is "frozen" which means that development stopped
and only bug fixes occur now (has been decades since a bug was found in TeX).

Yet...new varaint of TeX are being developed :
XeTeX supporting unicode
(it is at version 0.997...don't know if there will ever be a version 1.0 : it has been between version 0.95 and version 0.997 for a few years)

and LuaTeX (the future of TeX) supporting :
_unicode
_with integrated Lua
_ with revamped internals (that can be overloaded) and callbacks

Actually in Beta version

AS for myself, I don't use TeX anymore as I need Etex features or unicode.
For now, I stick with XeTeX but I'll switch with Luatex some time in the future...

My conclusion is...finished products like TeX are "dead" (cause we want more, limits are frustrating) however great they are...

Reply Score: 1

RE: Will it ever be released?
by ssa2204 on Thu 1st Nov 2007 10:47 UTC in reply to "Will it ever be released?"
ssa2204 Member since:
2006-04-22

I quite agree, this does seem somewhat like that ever elusive e17 (at least I see their website is running). Personally I think the SkyOS development should have either gone open source, or sought funding to hire a larger R&D staff to actually put out what they wish to put out; a commercial product. Sadly I fear that this may just end up going the BeOS route.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Will it ever be released?
by Robert on Thu 1st Nov 2007 11:41 UTC in reply to "RE: Will it ever be released?"
Robert Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, this depends how you define a release. SkyOS Builds are released every few months and development (alpha) builds are released every few weeks. There will be nothing like a SkyOS v1.0, just a steady flow of builds, with roadmaps defining the coverage of each build.

There will also be a change in the release naming scheme and roadmap definition, which will be announced soon.

>>>>When is anything ever finished?
>>Isn't TeX finished ?
Well, an OS will definitely never be finished. If it is finished, this just can mean that development has stalled and the project is dead.

Edited 2007-11-01 11:47

Reply Score: 4

bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

Well, this depends how you define a release. SkyOS Builds are released every few months and development (alpha) builds are released every few weeks. There will be nothing like a SkyOS v1.0, just a steady flow of builds, with roadmaps defining the coverage of each build.

This being the case, can we stop calling it "news" every time SkyOS releases another monthly?

--bornagainpenguin

Reply Score: 0

Lakedaemon Member since:
2005-08-07

The posts about SkyOS are news.

Each release/beta build brings (many) features and a few people (including me) want to read about it.

And if you don't care, nobody forces you to click on the "read more" link of SkyOS related news.

Reply Score: 3

bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

The posts about SkyOS are news.

Well this depends on what you define as news... ^_~

--bornagainpenguin

PS: Go ahead and mod me down! I know all you closed-source zealots and Szeleney Suckups are going to anyway...

Reply Score: 0

RE[6]: Will it ever be released?
by Robert on Thu 1st Nov 2007 17:38 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Will it ever be released?"
Robert Member since:
2005-07-06

Looks like someone is a bit angry here. I wonder, why do you even contribute to SkyOS news discussion here on osnews? If you are so pissed off, why don't you just mind posting here?

Reply Score: 5

ari-free Member since:
2007-01-22

because they are jealous. everyone else has to cobble together parts to make an OS, nobody has control over the design. That's what makes skyos so different and interesting.

Edited 2007-11-01 20:01

Reply Score: 0

don't mind them robert...
by vchira on Fri 2nd Nov 2007 14:20 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Will it ever be released?"
vchira Member since:
2007-11-02

They have no idea how much a house in Purkersdorf/Gablitz really costs ;) . i love your work man..maybe we could organize some sky os fans meeting in vienna some day.

Reply Score: 0

...
by poundsmack on Wed 31st Oct 2007 20:25 UTC
poundsmack
Member since:
2005-07-13

with a project as complex as a complete, user friendly operating i would rather they take their time and make it right than rush it and make it wrong. OSX 10.5 (while good still a little unpolished and felt rushed) and Vista are prefect examples. I develop software in my free time and i don't release it "until its done" setting a dead line is pointless when the goal of your project is to produce a real solid piece of software. hitting your date is good, releasing a system you can be proud of and taking your time with it is better.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Deadlines
by jdrake on Wed 31st Oct 2007 20:46 UTC in reply to "..."
jdrake Member since:
2005-07-07

Nah, setting deadlines is an act of realistic thinking. I don't think E-17 is ever intentioned on being *released*.
But if you can imagine a set of features you want and a date by which you would like those done, you can then start to balance what you want with the date.

Consider however that a new project is not the same as an established product. GNOME would be hard pressed to have a two year gap between releases, even if the features wanted are great. KDE is making this choice right now, the gamble being the payoff will be worth it.

Reply Score: 2

Redefinition of code
by Beta on Wed 31st Oct 2007 21:19 UTC
Beta
Member since:
2005-07-06

…“without having to write even a single line of code”

Excerpt from a theme file:
FrameWindow.Border.Left.Brush.Type STRING Image
FrameWindow.Border.Left.Brush.SolidColor COLOR #00525252
FrameWindow.Border.Left.Brush.Image STRING FrameBorderLeft.ico
FrameWindow.Border.Left.Brush.Image(inactive) STRING FrameBorderLeft(inactive).ico
FrameWindow.Border.Left.Brush.SizingMargins RECT 0,0,0,0

How accurate the summary is.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Redefinition of code
by Robert on Wed 31st Oct 2007 22:22 UTC in reply to "Redefinition of code"
Robert Member since:
2005-07-06

>>How accurate the summary is.
Yes, it is.
The lines you posted are from DataCollections Editor export function just to teach the user how a theme configuration file is handled internally. (this is not a text file you can edit).

Just modify the images and use the DataCollection Editor to adjust a few keys to get a complete new theme. I think you don't want to compare editing images or modifying a few keys (using an dedicated application) with writing source code which hooks into a theming API, do you?

Edited 2007-10-31 22:29

Reply Score: 8

Cheers !
by Lakedaemon on Wed 31st Oct 2007 23:57 UTC
Lakedaemon
Member since:
2005-08-07

I don't like waiting as long as SkyOS is getting better and better.

Watching SkyOS develop is refreshing and helps me (i.e. encourages me) to do as well in my many personal projects that involve work and efforts...
(like learning japanese, learning to play the drums, recording songs, improving my maths courses..., writing a japanese dictionary).

Congrats Robert. Keep up the good work !

On a side note, porting apps to the C++ Api looks like a neat thing as it seems to help fixing long standing bugs, producing simpler code easier to maintain and allowing implementation of more powerfull features...

Reply Score: 5

oups...my mistake
by Lakedaemon on Thu 1st Nov 2007 09:32 UTC
Lakedaemon
Member since:
2005-08-07

Damn...what I wanted to say is : "I don't mind waiting"...


Sorry, I'm french...

Reply Score: 2

RE: oups...my mistake
by stestagg on Thu 1st Nov 2007 20:51 UTC in reply to "oups...my mistake"
stestagg Member since:
2006-06-03

That must be a universal excuse, an international get-out-of-jail-free card:

...sorry I'm French.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: oups...my mistake
by Lakedaemon on Thu 1st Nov 2007 22:04 UTC in reply to "RE: oups...my mistake"
Lakedaemon Member since:
2005-08-07

You are right,
instead of correcting my mistake
and making excuses by saying
"Sorry, I'm French..."
(which implies that English is not my native language)

I should have made excuses by saying
"Sorry, I typed too fast and submitted without making sure my post was correct"
or
"Sorry, my mind slipped and I wrote the wrong word"...

Damn...People are getting picky to the point that being French isn't even an excuse anymore ! ^_^

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: oups...my mistake
by stestagg on Fri 2nd Nov 2007 10:04 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: oups...my mistake"
stestagg Member since:
2006-06-03

Actually, the mistake was mine, I forgot to add the, now obligatory, [/joke] tag to the end of my post. I just thought 'Sorry I'm French' a rather amusing excuse to use in a wide variety of situations.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: oups...my mistake
by helf on Fri 2nd Nov 2007 12:55 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: oups...my mistake"
helf Member since:
2005-07-06

DIRTY FRENCHMAN! ;)

Reply Score: 2

Looking good
by protomank on Thu 1st Nov 2007 11:24 UTC
protomank
Member since:
2006-08-03

I always wanted a UI that supported windows blinds, and looking the direction gnome and kde have taken, skyOS seems promissing, exept for the reason it's not open source. To bad :-(

Reply Score: 1

RE: Looking good
by Kelly Rush on Thu 1st Nov 2007 15:33 UTC in reply to "Looking good"
Kelly Rush Member since:
2005-06-30

Well, there's lots of different projects, with lots of different licenses. We chose closed-source, simply because it worked best for how we want the direction of SkyOS to head. We certainly appreciate and respect every project's license though, and the right of the respective parties to choose what works for them. I personally use Ubuntu Linux at home myself almost exclusively, so I very much respect the ability of open-source to deliver a strong, polished product!

Reply Score: 1

Know what's gonna happen?
by zizban on Thu 1st Nov 2007 18:46 UTC
zizban
Member since:
2005-07-06

When its released the following things are going to be said about it. I'll bet anyone a subscription to OSNews we'll see comments on the day it's released that say:

"Why should I have to pay for this when Linux is free?"
"Looks nice, but doesn't have any apps."
"How do they intended to compete against MS/Apple/Ubuntu?"

Get off it people. It'll be released when its ready.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Know what's gonna happen?
by ssa2204 on Thu 1st Nov 2007 21:58 UTC in reply to "Know what's gonna happen?"
ssa2204 Member since:
2006-04-22

Are you saying these are NOT legitimate questions?

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Know what's gonna happen?
by zizban on Thu 1st Nov 2007 22:05 UTC in reply to "RE: Know what's gonna happen?"
zizban Member since:
2005-07-06

No, I'm saying for all the hue cry people are putting up about the long beta cycle that once it is released, this is what they'll complain about next. People seem to want to find something to complain about with SkyOS no matter what happens.

Reply Score: 3

Looking good!
by akeru on Fri 2nd Nov 2007 00:46 UTC
akeru
Member since:
2007-06-24

I've always thought this looked like a fun OS. I wish you could try out the beta without having to pay for it. I'm not sure it will even run on this old laptop I have as it is! Either way, I'm amazed at how much progress seems to be made. Keep up the good work!

Reply Score: 1

bah....
by Lakedaemon on Fri 2nd Nov 2007 08:36 UTC
Lakedaemon
Member since:
2005-08-07

Well, bornagainenguin...

Most of the people trolling about/hating SkyOS are people who think that SkyOS looks/is shapping up like a neat thing, with lots of nice goodies in it.

They want to have it (my preciousssss), to play with it but they can't because :

1) they are cheap and can't/won't pay.
(30€ is 5 tickets to the movies in france or 30 smokes...it is half the price of a pc game. SkyOS bring more value than that).

Basically, they are so cheap/spoiled and they have so much disrespect for the work of others, that they want it free (like in beer).

The most shameful of those steal it, by downloading it illegally for free.
The people that put those SkyOS builds on p2p networks are even more despicable and low, in the first place.

2) they hate the fact that SkyOS isn't open source (because they are open source zealots or they want to play with the code or they want a more open development process or whatever...)

Basically, they deny Robert's right to choose the licence for his work (and are being plain annoying).
And they still want his work for free...

3) they want to play with SkyOS but whine that their hardware isn't supported...
(some of them whine don't provide Robert with the necessary feedback (debug log) to fix their hardware support...though Robert TRIES to help)


Of course, those people behave in a childish manner (probably because they are still brats, or worse adults with a spoiled teen behavior)


Now, there is another kind of people that don't like SkyOS.

Those are people who have good reasons not to want to buy SkyOS
(for example, they might fear that SkyOS go the BeOS way, or they want to fix bug themselves, etc....and they don't support non open source oses for these reasons)
and who behave sanely, like adults :

If they don't like the product,
They don't buy it.
They don't whine about it
they don't post zillions of negative posts on SkyOS related forum/news.
They leave it be.
They don't care but don't annoy to no end the people who care.
They aren't silly and don't try to pick fights for wrong reasons (you steal from open source and don't give back, you breach the GPL, etc...).

bornagainenguin and sirhomer, I'm afraid that you are definetely not of the second kind.

You don't like SkyOS and don't want to have anything to do with it. Fine. We understand your message.
You have stated your opinion very clearly.
Now, could you do us a favor and stop posting zillions of times the same hate/negative/unbiased/silly posts please ? It gets annoying and we would appreciate if you could stop. Thanks.

By the way calling the people who bought SkyOS "Szeleney Suckups", is like saying that the linux people suck Linus'[censored], that the people who use windows get Gates' [censored] deep in the [censored], and that mac's users swallow Job's [censored]...

Not liking is one thing, defiling SkyOS user base is quite another. In my opinion, you suck big time too.

Edited 2007-11-02 08:50

Reply Score: 5

RE: bah....
by PJBonoVox on Fri 2nd Nov 2007 12:24 UTC in reply to "bah...."
PJBonoVox Member since:
2006-08-14

"The people that put those SkyOS builds on p2p networks are even more despicable and low, in the first place."

Since the serial number is tied to your account (I know this since I paid for the beta), could you explain this further? I'm struggling to see how this behaviour is happening if the serial is tied to a user.

Edited 2007-11-02 12:25

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: bah....
by Lakedaemon on Fri 2nd Nov 2007 13:06 UTC in reply to "RE: bah...."
Lakedaemon Member since:
2005-08-07

[quote]
"The people that put those SkyOS builds on p2p networks are even more despicable and low, in the first place."

Since the serial number is tied to your account (I know this since I paid for the beta), could you explain this further? I'm struggling to see how this behaviour is happening if the serial is tied to a user.
[/quote]

Well, I hear you but I was just stating
observed facts (however silly they may be) :
-a few builds of SkyOS have been leaked on p2p networks
-a few people with an illegal copy of SkyOS even asked for help on the SkyOS website.

If I'm not mistaken, there have even been occurrences of people with an illegal copy of SkyOS implementing 3rd party apps for SkyOS (please correct me if I'm wrong)...I believe that a piece of the Wmware support for SkyOS emlerged from such an occurence... (thanks for that) ^_^

On a side note....
among the many people who applied for a free copy of SkyOS in return for developing SkyOS apps (the now forsaken Beta developer programm),
only a few (we love you guys) stayed true to their words and actually developed apps for SkyOS.

(stupid) Humans...

Reply Score: 1

RE: bah....
by akeru on Fri 2nd Nov 2007 12:30 UTC in reply to "bah...."
akeru Member since:
2007-06-24

I don't think you have the right to make the broad assumption that everyone who doesn't buy SkyOS is cheap, spoiled and childish. While I don't approve of bornagainenguin making comments about suck-ups, you are definitely not taking the high road here.

I personally think SkyOS looks like a fun project, and I'd love to try it out. I can't see paying for it for a few reasons. One is that I have an old laptop that I install different operating systems on for fun, and doesn't seem to work well with anything but Windows. I also have a hard time with purchasing a beta of something I've never tried before. I don't know how it works, I've only seen screenshots and changelogs. If SkyOS were further along, I might consider spending the $40 US to use it. Right now, I just can't see it.

I like the free open source business model. I think it's great when people willingly donate money to developers of a project because they love using it, not because they're obligated to do so. Of course, Robert has the freedom to choose any business model he wants for SkyOS. Some may agree with it and some may disagree, but I don't think there's any reason to fight about it.

I'll leave this comment with a link to the Linux Mint forums, where people have been donating to the project that is free to use. This is the type of business model that I prefer, and I hope that Robert is making as much to support his efforts as this free project is.

http://linuxmint.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26&sid=3f33bf66ea0dfe0d2...

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: bah....
by Lakedaemon on Fri 2nd Nov 2007 12:55 UTC in reply to "RE: bah...."
Lakedaemon Member since:
2005-08-07

[quote]I don't think you have the right to make the broad assumption that everyone who doesn't buy SkyOS is cheap, spoiled and childish.[/quote]

That's not what I said/meant. Reread my post.

First, I spoke about childish people trolling about SkyOs and afterwards I spoke about more mature people "disliking" SkyOS/having sensible reasons not to buy it (and who don't troll).

You appear to belong to the second category.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: bah....
by bornagainenguin on Fri 2nd Nov 2007 13:54 UTC in reply to "RE: bah...."
bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

I don't approve of bornagainenguin making comments about suck-ups[...]

Please see my response to that post. I chose my words poorly, not realizing they could be so misinterpreted. Did you know "suck up" has over ten definitions!! What I meant (as should be clear from the context of my comment) was to call the people who were moderating me down because they didn't like anyone being critical of SkyOS "brown-nosers" is that more clear?

--bornagainpenguin

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: bah....
by Thom_Holwerda on Fri 2nd Nov 2007 15:11 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: bah...."
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Please see my response to that post. I chose my words poorly, not realizing they could be so misinterpreted.


It's a personal attack in whatever way you put it, and that's actually against our rules. I'm too lazy to moderate this thread right now, but a bit more of this nonsense and this thread will receive some massive moderation.

I'm getting pretty much sick and tired of the comments' sections on SkyOS stories. And yes, you are all responsible for that, on both sides of the fence. It is quite likely that I will have to resort to much fiercer methods of keeping SkyOS threads clean.

I've had it up to right about HERE with people pro and anti SkyOS. Get out more.

Reply Score: 1

RE: bah....
by bornagainenguin on Fri 2nd Nov 2007 13:49 UTC in reply to "bah...."
bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

Nice try at character assassination! Only you couldn't be more inaccurate if you tried...

Go ahead and look back through my posting record and see what I say are my concerns about SkyOS; you'll find I often compare SkyOS to the BeOS. There is a reason for that. I was among the last people to purchase BeOS in the store, three months later they were out of business.

I'd been using the BeOS PE and finding it very usable, I could have just installed from that, like so many others did but I wanted to be legal and I wanted to be able to play my collection of RM videos. I also wanted to support the company I'd read about in Neal Stephenson's essay...I wanted to see BeOS continue to grow and prosper.

Why would I want to go through that again?

The past has shown quite clearly what happens when an OS is closed and there is no money to continue development. Or its lead developer loses interest and quits. It is only thanks to the fact AtheOS was released under the GPL that Syllable was able to rise from its ashes. What will happen if/when Robert decides to quit SkyOS in favor of something else? Will there still be a SkyOS?

Why would I want to take that chance?

By the way calling the people who bought SkyOS "Szeleney Suckups", is like saying [...]

I think you're missing my point altogether there. Perhaps I should have called them Szeleney Brown-Nosers instead? Does that make my meaning more clear? I did not mean anything sexual in my remarks, I was referring to fanatic who moderate downward any post which does not praise SkyOS or adulate its creator. As you can see I was correct in thinking this would happen....

Not liking is one thing, defiling SkyOS user base is quite another.

Not liking my posts is one thing, moderating them down as if I were in violation of the board's posting policies is quite another. Also, as said above I was using "suckup" in ... look see dictionary.com, particularly definitions 10 and 20.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=suck+up&x=33&y=25

I did not "defile" SkyOS' user base. If you or any one else who bought the SkyOS betas were not moderating me down against OSNews.com policy, then you were not included in my statement. Do you have a guilty conscious?

--bornagainpenguin

Reply Score: 6

RE: bah....
by sirhomer on Fri 2nd Nov 2007 19:32 UTC in reply to "bah...."
sirhomer Member since:
2007-01-03

Truth.

Edited 2007-11-02 19:49

Reply Score: 1

Who is more stupid
by liamdawe on Fri 2nd Nov 2007 13:37 UTC
liamdawe
Member since:
2006-07-04

Seriously who is more stupid, the people constantly making stupid comments about SkyOS. Or the good people who reply to them everytime fueling them to keep arguing.

Just ignore the bad remarks, SkyOS is good. Robert chose the license he wants, it will be "released" when ready. End of.

Reply Score: 1

Oh well
by Robert on Fri 2nd Nov 2007 15:17 UTC
Robert
Member since:
2005-07-06

Yeah, its always a pity to see how much time I spent argumenting to people who can't get their head out of the sand, over and over. What a wasted time.

@vchira:
;), at least its a very nice region there.
A meeting in vienna would be really nice someday, Pavel, the Pixel developer is also in vienna from time to time and showed interest in a meeting there too.
Maybe we could organize something for next year, who knows.

Reply Score: 1