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since you're an idiot (microsoft user that only understand yearly service packs, i'll explain it).... apple releasing an update is norma and they usually release an update every month or two to add small functionality and fixes.

these updates are free, small and arent anywhere near a 'service pack' that takes 1-2 years for MS to release.

It's pretty clear he was trolling. I bet Microsoft would be happy to have a RTM that was as bug free as 10.5.

Anyway, where's 10.4.11? I won't be moving to 10.5 until complaints, valid or otherwise, are minimal.

Complaints will continue till 10.6.... And so forth.

Being an all-round user (Mac, Windows, Linux), I think Leopard is a natural progression from Tiger.

Make the base system more robust and complete, add some new frameworks for developers to play with, some flashy GUI changes, and - voila - a new OS.

That being said, I think Leopard is a great step forward, laying the foundations for future revisions.

Edited 2007-11-08 02:28

It's interesting to note that of all the talk about Leopard, nobody points out that it comes a lot closer to "bringing teh snappy" than any previous release of OS X. The UI seems a lot faster than Tiger on my MacBook. Spotlight is way faster, and the Spotlight-powered search entries in the Finder are very usably fast, especially considering what they are. The Finder itself feels a lot more responsive than previous versions. And Quicklook is extremely snappy, even with large documents.

That said, Leopard is definitely a .0 release. I haven't encountered any instability or anything in more than a week of heavy use, but I have encountered "weird" behavior more than once. Eg: after 8 days of continuous running (since the upgrade), I had to reboot the machine because an FTP share wouldn't eject.

I bought Panther and Tiger on the day they were released. Actually, thats a lie. I pre-ordered them a few weeks before, in order to get the on the day they were released. Yes, I'm one of those crazy early adopters.

However, Leopard is the first release of OS X where I'm happy to wait out. Not because Leopard is bad or anything. From what I've read, it is much more stable than Tiger was at release. I'm waiting because Tiger is doing all that I need it to do and it's rock solid. Why fix something that ain't broke (yet)?

Will probably get it when 10.5.3 or 10.5.4 hits the shelf.

Seeing as you apparently have nothing to contribute beyond Jr. High-level sarcasm, I'll make it extraordinarily easy for you: offer something resembling a convincing argument that the quoted text I replied to was *anything* other than painfully-obvious affected superiority, and I'll eat a copy of Leopard (with your choice of garnish).



There's an insightful and well thought-out critique. Let me guess - somethingawful is a little bit more your speed?

So, a post calling someone an idiot gets modded up to 5? Very nice...

Oh, And I use BSDs, Linux, Solaris and Windows. Point is, some platform-specific users easily accuse other people of being idiot and using {other_os_here) whenever their OS of choice was criticized.

The fact that this 'idiot' went out of his way to provoke a flame war by saying something that is patently false. Not just an opinion, but a blatantly false statement - notice he hasn't even ATTEMPTED to participate in the discussion? he is yet another fly-through forum spammer hoping to cause a racus and flame feast.

Yes, Leopard has issues, just like Windows Vista, but unlike Windows Vista, we aren't waiting months for updates, those who have complained, a good portion later admit they've tweaked their OS to buggery - thus bringing it upon themselves. The issue isn't that we as Apple uses don't like criticism of our OS of choice, but when people make groundless accusations or worse, be a forum spammer hoping to stir up trouble.

Edited 2007-11-08 17:06

Heh, while that is a popular caricature of Mac users, I fail to see how it applies here in this instance.

Sorry, is that a joke? Is it supposed to be funny? Does it have anything to do with this discussion?

The Mac vs PC ads were lame but come on penny-arcade, try to make a joke that is at least remotely witty and funny. Then again, it's penny-arcade. Sharp (or even dull) wit isn't exactly their strong area.

Funny, I don't see a similar post from you tsk-tsk'ing the poster I replied to. Forgive me if I don't act surprised, however.



So you're the universal arbiter of what is or isn't wit? Or was there some actual *substantial* / qualified criticism you neglected to include? Because if not, I don't see any reason not to simply assume it's just the usual OSNews practice of confusing easily-bruised egos with critical opinions.

Well, I'm a Mac user and I can tell you that I found it funny - go into any Mac shop and you're almost certain to trip over a person like that. Yes, there are also people like that in the Windows world - who claim their 'elite' status on how many short cut keys they know off by heart, or how fast they can move their cursor to accomplish a task - never mind the fact they don't know a damn thing about computers or IT in general.



It was a piss take on the PC vs. Mac rivalry; you sound like the type of people who sit around monitoring late night programming to compile a list of complaints for the FCC. Get over it and stop taking life so seriously.

Edited 2007-11-10 03:35

How long is a particular version supported for? Sorry if this is off topic, but I'm thing of moving to a mac.

Btw, anyone here recommend a friendly mac forum?

In terms of code changes, not that long (not as long as Windows). Monthly bug-fix releases stop shortly after the new release (eg: 10.4.11 will be the last Tiger build likely), and security fixes stop around the release after that (eg: security updates to Jaguar stopped soon before the Tiger release). Software support varies somewhat. Most frequently-released free programs tend to support only the latest couple of releases --- commercial software usually supports further back.

As for forums, macnn.com is a good Mac forum, as is the Machintosh Achaia on ArsTechnica.

Edited 2007-11-08 05:16

This is why I really don't like that Apple had their rant about "All versions $129, haha look at windows license mess". I've had my windows XP fully upgraded for five? years. The big thing in Vista (.net etc) is available, although with a somewhat crippled rendering engine. And I can still run a win32 program from over a decade ago.

If they feel the need to mock windows, there are other areas that actually are motivated to mock.

Thats heaps for that rayiner! Gratefull.

No, but I'm sure you'll find plenty of elitist ones.

Anyone who has followed MacOS X releases expects a .1 release within a 30 - 60 day window after the .0 release.

This doesn't mean Leopard is a flop. It means that Apple released Leopard on time, without showstopping bugs and continued work on the OS past the time they committed it to Gold Master status.

Long gone is the day when a program comes out and remains unchanged/unpatched after it's release.

Don't really know what we're talking about, do we now?

Fixes are good no matter what OS.

Bugs are probably there in all new software, atleast so complex ones as a whole operating system.

Rushed out software just to meet expected shipping dates however even thought it puts the user at risk sucks, both from Apple and Microsoft.

For me too. Leopard runs perfectly stable and the only bug I've encountered is also with spaces; if you open an applicaton that takes a few seconds to load and then "zoom out" to see all desktops the new applications is just put over everything in full size. Not a big deal but still. Though I haven't seen the bug your're mentioning. Are you sure you don't hit the key combo to switch desktop by misstake?

At least we don't have to wait over a year for "SP1".