Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 7th Nov 2007 22:35 UTC, submitted by SK8T
Mac OS X Apple has seeded the first build of Leopard 10.5.1. "Apple details a number of issues addressed in the seed. Specifically, there have been fixes to Mail Sync, Spotlight Index, Disk Management, DesktopServices and moving files across partitions, Text Drawing, iCal and CalDAV syncing, Keychain login, Read-Only Issue with SMB, AirPort 802.1X, Application Firewall, To-Do Notes, and Smart Mailboxes. This list of issues, however, is never exhaustive, so other bugs may have also been addressed in this seed."
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Darn Apple Seeds
by mind!dagger on Wed 7th Nov 2007 22:51 UTC
mind!dagger
Member since:
2007-06-26

Darn Apple seeds all over the place.

Sorry. Could not resist.

Edited 2007-11-07 22:51

Reply Score: 2

So, 10.5 was a flop?
by truckweb on Wed 7th Nov 2007 22:54 UTC
truckweb
Member since:
2005-07-06

If you call 10.5.1 a Service Pack, does that mean that 10.5 was a flop? With all the bugs already found, the bad firewall, moving files that delete your data, ....

Almost as good as Vista...

Reply Score: 0

RE: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by mckill on Wed 7th Nov 2007 23:07 UTC in reply to "So, 10.5 was a flop?"
mckill Member since:
2007-06-12

since you're an idiot (microsoft user that only understand yearly service packs, i'll explain it).... apple releasing an update is norma and they usually release an update every month or two to add small functionality and fixes.

these updates are free, small and arent anywhere near a 'service pack' that takes 1-2 years for MS to release.

Reply Score: 11

RE[2]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by mbot on Wed 7th Nov 2007 23:11 UTC in reply to "RE: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
mbot Member since:
2007-09-18

It's pretty clear he was trolling. I bet Microsoft would be happy to have a RTM that was as bug free as 10.5.

Anyway, where's 10.4.11? I won't be moving to 10.5 until complaints, valid or otherwise, are minimal.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by cm49 on Thu 8th Nov 2007 02:18 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
cm49 Member since:
2007-03-23

Complaints will continue till 10.6.... And so forth.

Being an all-round user (Mac, Windows, Linux), I think Leopard is a natural progression from Tiger.

Make the base system more robust and complete, add some new frameworks for developers to play with, some flashy GUI changes, and - voila - a new OS.

That being said, I think Leopard is a great step forward, laying the foundations for future revisions.

Edited 2007-11-08 02:28

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by rayiner on Thu 8th Nov 2007 03:59 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
rayiner Member since:
2005-07-06

It's interesting to note that of all the talk about Leopard, nobody points out that it comes a lot closer to "bringing teh snappy" than any previous release of OS X. The UI seems a lot faster than Tiger on my MacBook. Spotlight is way faster, and the Spotlight-powered search entries in the Finder are very usably fast, especially considering what they are. The Finder itself feels a lot more responsive than previous versions. And Quicklook is extremely snappy, even with large documents.

That said, Leopard is definitely a .0 release. I haven't encountered any instability or anything in more than a week of heavy use, but I have encountered "weird" behavior more than once. Eg: after 8 days of continuous running (since the upgrade), I had to reboot the machine because an FTP share wouldn't eject.

Reply Score: 5

RE[5]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by C_Forq on Thu 8th Nov 2007 04:19 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
C_Forq Member since:
2007-06-15

I was actually thinking this the other day. I think Leopard is the best OS I've used since BeOS. It feels to me like an amazing fusion of BeOS and BSD, and I love it.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by evangs on Thu 8th Nov 2007 07:54 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
evangs Member since:
2005-07-07

I bought Panther and Tiger on the day they were released. Actually, thats a lie. I pre-ordered them a few weeks before, in order to get the on the day they were released. Yes, I'm one of those crazy early adopters.

However, Leopard is the first release of OS X where I'm happy to wait out. Not because Leopard is bad or anything. From what I've read, it is much more stable than Tiger was at release. I'm waiting because Tiger is doing all that I need it to do and it's rock solid. Why fix something that ain't broke (yet)?

Will probably get it when 10.5.3 or 10.5.4 hits the shelf.

Reply Score: 3

v RE[2]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by StephenBeDoper on Wed 7th Nov 2007 23:14 UTC in reply to "RE: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
v RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by senornoodle on Thu 8th Nov 2007 01:26 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
RE[4]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by StephenBeDoper on Thu 8th Nov 2007 21:24 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

why yes that's completely applicable and not just 'oh those elitist mac users' without any real connection to what was said


Seeing as you apparently have nothing to contribute beyond Jr. High-level sarcasm, I'll make it extraordinarily easy for you: offer something resembling a convincing argument that the quoted text I replied to was *anything* other than painfully-obvious affected superiority, and I'll eat a copy of Leopard (with your choice of garnish).

ps penny arcade isn't funny


There's an insightful and well thought-out critique. Let me guess - somethingawful is a little bit more your speed?

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by qroon on Thu 8th Nov 2007 04:10 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
qroon Member since:
2005-10-21

So, a post calling someone an idiot gets modded up to 5? Very nice... ;)

Oh, And I use BSDs, Linux, Solaris and Windows. Point is, some platform-specific users easily accuse other people of being idiot and using {other_os_here) whenever their OS of choice was criticized.

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by kaiwai on Thu 8th Nov 2007 17:05 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

The fact that this 'idiot' went out of his way to provoke a flame war by saying something that is patently false. Not just an opinion, but a blatantly false statement - notice he hasn't even ATTEMPTED to participate in the discussion? he is yet another fly-through forum spammer hoping to cause a racus and flame feast.

Yes, Leopard has issues, just like Windows Vista, but unlike Windows Vista, we aren't waiting months for updates, those who have complained, a good portion later admit they've tweaked their OS to buggery - thus bringing it upon themselves. The issue isn't that we as Apple uses don't like criticism of our OS of choice, but when people make groundless accusations or worse, be a forum spammer hoping to stir up trouble.

Edited 2007-11-08 17:06

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by evangs on Thu 8th Nov 2007 07:56 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
evangs Member since:
2005-07-07

Heh, while that is a popular caricature of Mac users, I fail to see how it applies here in this instance.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by Soulbender on Fri 9th Nov 2007 04:32 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Sorry, is that a joke? Is it supposed to be funny? Does it have anything to do with this discussion?

The Mac vs PC ads were lame but come on penny-arcade, try to make a joke that is at least remotely witty and funny. Then again, it's penny-arcade. Sharp (or even dull) wit isn't exactly their strong area.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by StephenBeDoper on Fri 9th Nov 2007 15:07 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Sorry, is that a joke? Is it supposed to be funny? Does it have anything to do with this discussion?


Funny, I don't see a similar post from you tsk-tsk'ing the poster I replied to. Forgive me if I don't act surprised, however.

Then again, it's penny-arcade. Sharp (or even dull) wit isn't exactly their strong area.


So you're the universal arbiter of what is or isn't wit? Or was there some actual *substantial* / qualified criticism you neglected to include? Because if not, I don't see any reason not to simply assume it's just the usual OSNews practice of confusing easily-bruised egos with critical opinions.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by kaiwai on Sat 10th Nov 2007 03:33 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Sorry, is that a joke? Is it supposed to be funny? Does it have anything to do with this discussion?


Well, I'm a Mac user and I can tell you that I found it funny - go into any Mac shop and you're almost certain to trip over a person like that. Yes, there are also people like that in the Windows world - who claim their 'elite' status on how many short cut keys they know off by heart, or how fast they can move their cursor to accomplish a task - never mind the fact they don't know a damn thing about computers or IT in general.

The Mac vs PC ads were lame but come on penny-arcade, try to make a joke that is at least remotely witty and funny. Then again, it's penny-arcade. Sharp (or even dull) wit isn't exactly their strong area.


It was a piss take on the PC vs. Mac rivalry; you sound like the type of people who sit around monitoring late night programming to compile a list of complaints for the FCC. Get over it and stop taking life so seriously.

Edited 2007-11-10 03:35

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by camo on Thu 8th Nov 2007 04:36 UTC in reply to "RE: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
camo Member since:
2007-10-08

How long is a particular version supported for? Sorry if this is off topic, but I'm thing of moving to a mac.

Btw, anyone here recommend a friendly mac forum?

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by rayiner on Thu 8th Nov 2007 05:15 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
rayiner Member since:
2005-07-06

In terms of code changes, not that long (not as long as Windows). Monthly bug-fix releases stop shortly after the new release (eg: 10.4.11 will be the last Tiger build likely), and security fixes stop around the release after that (eg: security updates to Jaguar stopped soon before the Tiger release). Software support varies somewhat. Most frequently-released free programs tend to support only the latest couple of releases --- commercial software usually supports further back.

As for forums, macnn.com is a good Mac forum, as is the Machintosh Achaia on ArsTechnica.

Edited 2007-11-08 05:16

Reply Score: 6

RE[4]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by wanker90210 on Thu 8th Nov 2007 15:38 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
wanker90210 Member since:
2007-10-26

This is why I really don't like that Apple had their rant about "All versions $129, haha look at windows license mess". I've had my windows XP fully upgraded for five? years. The big thing in Vista (.net etc) is available, although with a somewhat crippled rendering engine. And I can still run a win32 program from over a decade ago.

If they feel the need to mock windows, there are other areas that actually are motivated to mock.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by Chicken Blood on Thu 8th Nov 2007 17:31 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
Chicken Blood Member since:
2005-12-21

This is why I really don't like that Apple had their rant about "All versions $129, haha look at windows license mess"

'Rant'? it was a light-hearted jibe at most and a valid one at that.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by rayiner on Thu 8th Nov 2007 18:11 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
rayiner Member since:
2005-07-06

The "rant" makes more sense if you consider what Jobs cares about: complexity, not cost. Keeping OS X up-to-date may very well have a higher cost in terms of $/feature than Windows, over the period of the last 5 years. But there is no denying that the licensing scheme is simple. On October 28, I went into the Apple Store, grabbed the box with the big "X" on it, and one of the clerks checked me out right on the spot. Buying Vista isn't so simple. Indeed, without actually looking it up on the internets, I wouldn't even know which version to buy.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by camo on Sat 10th Nov 2007 02:24 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
camo Member since:
2007-10-08

Thats heaps for that rayiner! Gratefull.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by PJBonoVox on Thu 8th Nov 2007 09:57 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: So, 10.5 was a flop?"
PJBonoVox Member since:
2006-08-14

No, but I'm sure you'll find plenty of elitist ones.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by Mage66 on Wed 7th Nov 2007 23:11 UTC in reply to "So, 10.5 was a flop?"
Mage66 Member since:
2005-07-11

Anyone who has followed MacOS X releases expects a .1 release within a 30 - 60 day window after the .0 release.

This doesn't mean Leopard is a flop. It means that Apple released Leopard on time, without showstopping bugs and continued work on the OS past the time they committed it to Gold Master status.

Long gone is the day when a program comes out and remains unchanged/unpatched after it's release.

Reply Score: 15

RE: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by senornoodle on Thu 8th Nov 2007 01:24 UTC in reply to "So, 10.5 was a flop?"
senornoodle Member since:
2005-07-12

Don't really know what we're talking about, do we now?

Reply Score: 2

RE: So, 10.5 was a flop?
by aliquis on Thu 8th Nov 2007 04:32 UTC in reply to "So, 10.5 was a flop?"
aliquis Member since:
2005-07-23

Fixes are good no matter what OS.

Bugs are probably there in all new software, atleast so complex ones as a whole operating system.

Rushed out software just to meet expected shipping dates however even thought it puts the user at risk sucks, both from Apple and Microsoft.

Reply Score: 1

Leopard
by REM2000 on Thu 8th Nov 2007 09:04 UTC
REM2000
Member since:
2006-07-25

I got Leopard the day it was released, it fast and stable and the only bug i have yet encounter is the spaces one where is moves you to another screen for no reason.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Leopard
by NxStY on Thu 8th Nov 2007 17:04 UTC in reply to "Leopard"
NxStY Member since:
2005-11-12

For me too. Leopard runs perfectly stable and the only bug I've encountered is also with spaces; if you open an applicaton that takes a few seconds to load and then "zoom out" to see all desktops the new applications is just put over everything in full size. Not a big deal but still. Though I haven't seen the bug your're mentioning. Are you sure you don't hit the key combo to switch desktop by misstake?

At least we don't have to wait over a year for "SP1". ;)

Reply Score: 2

Best to wait...
by AlienBenefactor on Sat 10th Nov 2007 22:27 UTC
AlienBenefactor
Member since:
2006-04-19

I've found it best to wait for about two months (or so) prior to updating. This gives Apple plenty of time to squish bugs.

Reply Score: 1

New Mac user
by Larz on Sat 10th Nov 2007 22:46 UTC
Larz
Member since:
2006-01-04

I have been a Windows user since Windows 3.1. I have worked in a corporate IT department for seven years, administrating and supporting Windows. I have often defended Microsoft (as well as cursed them). I personally just never became friends with Vista (no bashing, just my personal opinion).

So I got my first Mac three days ago (MacBook). Leopard is by no means bug free. And there are certainly also things in Mac OS X that I find counterintuitive and cumbersome. But in general I find it a very stable and productive system. I would say that it is a lot more stable and polished than any x.0 version of a Microsoft OS I have ever encountered. I can only imagine what it will be like in a few months when the worst bugs have been ironed out.

From a functionality point of view, there is not too much difference between Mac OS X and Vista, (that being said, I am crazy about spaces). But when I look at the intangibles, such as ease of use and productivity I am amazed so far - I am really impressed.

So I certainly haven't regretted my purchase so far.

(as a final note I should mention, that I think I owe it to the open standards and open source crowds to make the switch so easy)

Reply Score: 1

Time Machine update?
by Dark_Knight on Sun 11th Nov 2007 18:31 UTC
Dark_Knight
Member since:
2005-07-10

Does this release resolve the issue with Leopard's Time Machine not working with networked external hard drives over WIFI? Time Machine was supposed to work with networked hard drives when released but unfortunately does not even when used with Apple's Airport Extreme Base Station (AEBS).

Reply Score: 2