Linked by Robert C. Dowdy on Tue 8th Oct 2002 02:36 UTC
Red Hat I know what you're thinking, but don't worry. This article isn't 'Yet Another Red Hat 8.0 Review'. This article is primarily about using Red Hat 8.0 if you happen to be a newbie, but it's also about using Red Hat 8.0 if you happen to be a KDE user. Why? I happen to be a KDE user, so it makes sense I'd focus more on what I know the most about. Plus, I still remember the frustration of staring with something akin to terror at a blank command line with lots of ideas about what I'd like to do and very little knowledge of how to do it.
Order by: Score:
Font rendering
by Alex on Tue 8th Oct 2002 03:13 UTC

Without question, font rendering in Psyche is the most beautiful I've ever seen in a Linux distribution.

I agree. Red Hat 8 has the most beautiful fonts I've ever seen in a Linux distro. Red Had has done an excellent job. I hope they continue with it.

Good Article
by Quake on Tue 8th Oct 2002 03:16 UTC

Good Article, After reading this, it makes me wonder why I downloaded Mandrake 9.

Excellent article !!!
by Sulvas on Tue 8th Oct 2002 03:41 UTC

Holy crap, you truly have a gift for these walkthroughs. You just made all these tasks look so simple. I will give them all a try within the next few days. Thanks for answering a lot of the questions I had in my mind. Any chance you can include a guide to install 3D drivers on Psyche for an ATI Radeon 8500 64MB video card? That would really be cool and would make a lot of ATI linux users happy.

:-)

Xft Mozilla
by Spark on Tue 8th Oct 2002 03:45 UTC

Font are really awesome... And soon Mozilla will have it to. ;) I tried the Xft enabled build for Red Hat and this is the first time that Mozilla fonts really blew me away.
Look at this:
http://62.26.209.204/download/Screenshot-navigator%3Abrowser.pn...

Isn't it beautiful? And I'm still using the original fonts (Nimbus), no "Arial-cheating" or anything like that.
While the fonts aren't perfectly clean and sharp, they are simply really really nice and fine to work with. ;)

I'm not using this Mozilla though as I prefer the Bluecurve Mozilla with Galeon. Because that's finally a Galeon where the scrollbar doesn't look out of place but integrated. ;) And it works perfectly reliable. Like almost everything on this Red Hat install. There were a few quirks right after installation and a few minor bugs I might report but now I'm getting more and more impressed with every day.

You are wrong about KDE
by antiphon on Tue 8th Oct 2002 03:46 UTC

The principle of what you are saying is a true one, however, Redhat's changes to KDE have effectively broken compatibility at certain basic levels within the kdelibs as well as some kdebase apps. You'll notice this if you ever try to report a bug in your KDE apps. Because of Redhat's presumption, the report will not go to the KDE team, but instead to Redhat, where there is not one full-time developer on staff. (Translation: it won't get fixed anytime soon.)

These changes were not even improvements, either. Nor could one really say they were since they were done by people who were never involved w/KDE and had no knowledge of how things ought to be done. It would have been better to have ditched KDE alltogether (RH could have included KDE apps w/out including a corrupted KDE environment.) instead of giving users a messed up version.

The reason you don't see criticism of Lycoris and ELX, etc. is because these companies thought it better to not distribute a hacked GNOME. They also didn't have the arrogance to modify and screw up critical system libraries like Redhat has done.

You think the KDE advocates are only making these complaints because we don't like RH's aesthetics, wrong.

The aplication start-up is very slow...
by Martin on Tue 8th Oct 2002 03:47 UTC

Red Hat 8.0 is beatifull, but why the aplication are slow to start-up?. When I go click in file explorer or Konkeror this aplication late 3 seconds...in Windows 2000/XP is instantaneous.

RE: ATI drivers
by Rob on Tue 8th Oct 2002 03:48 UTC

Thanks for the encouragement. This is actually the first article I've ever placed (on OSNews or elsewhere) so I was scared to even read the comments! Apparently, I helped you, so even if everyone else thinks it's awful at least it wasn't a total loss.

Anyway, I can't help with the ATI drivers, since I don't have an ATI card to test with. I'm still using my trusty GeForce 2 Ti (it's one of the last batch with the fast clockspeed). It's been a really solid card, even if it did give SuSE 8.0 a few nervous breakdowns. Honestly, I don't do much 3D gamin anymore, so I generally just use the stock XFree86 drivers anyway.

Re: Xft Mozilla
by Spark on Tue 8th Oct 2002 03:53 UTC

Yes, replying to myself is fun...

"now I'm getting more and more impressed with every day."

Here is a good example: When ever I want to log out (to finally get some sleep), I'm so impressed by the smoothness of the shading animation that I click "cancel" and play a bit more with the desktop, sometimes just clicking the logout-button repeatedly lol. It's like a drug.


antiphon: You obviously didn't really read what he wrote and you just repeated what was already said a few hundred times before (and the author most probably already heard as well). We all know that it's not just about the aesthetics but about the core functionality of kdelibs (and some other packages). This doesn't change anything to anyone of Robert's points.
And now please don't be so anti. ;)

Spark (preparing for his last try today to finally confirm the logout question with "OK")

Splendid!
by Jay on Tue 8th Oct 2002 03:56 UTC

Rob, thank you for writing such a thorough, well thought out article! Wow, it's really good with tons of useful info.I appreciate your comments about the whole KDE/Gnome situation very much. Thanks for going to such trouble!

I'm sitting here on RH 8 and just got my first update alert from the RH Network icon at the end of the Panel. It glows red when there is an online update available. It turned out to be an updte of fetchmail. Anyway, what a nice feature! I still don't now if I have this because I actually bought it or if anyone can have this.

RedHatNews.com?
by Brandon Sharitt on Tue 8th Oct 2002 03:57 UTC

It seem like there's been a lot of Red Hat news here lately, but I guess that's not neccesarily bad.

I was going to get Lycoris or some other "beginner" distibution for my grand mother, but I may get RH8, since it looks like they've achieved that same ease of use and singular feel without "dumbing down" the distro.

RE: RedHatNews.com?
by Eugenia on Tue 8th Oct 2002 04:01 UTC

Red Hat 8 was the most anticipated release in the Linux world and it happened only one week ago. It is "normal" to have more submissions about reviews and articles related to Red Hat 8. It is too be expected.
Just 2 weeks ago people were whining that we put too much Windows news. As I said, depends on the day.

Red Hat Network
by Rob on Tue 8th Oct 2002 04:03 UTC

>>"I'm sitting here on RH 8 and just got my first update alert from the RH Network icon at the end of the Panel. It glows red when there is an online update available. It turned out to be an updte of fetchmail. Anyway, what a nice feature! I still don't now if I have this because I actually bought it or if anyone can have this."

If you buy the Personal edition you get full access to Red Hat Network for 30 days. With Professional, I think it's 60 days. Even download users (or people whose time has run out) can use RHN, though. The only condition is that sometimes the network may be flooded with requests, and paying customers are given priority.

>>"I'm so impressed by the smoothness of the shading animation that I click "cancel" and play a bit more with the desktop, sometimes just clicking the logout-button repeatedly lol. It's like a drug."

If you had my laptop you'd go right to sleep. The logout fading on XP and Linux is awful on this machine for some reason. It doesn't look cool at all ... it looks more like a defective LCD (and it's a relatively new model, too).

To the comment about giving RH 8.0 to grandma ... unless you're going to do some heavy configuring beforehand, as great as I think Red Hat is at this point it's certainly not grandma-proof yet (unless you have a particularly savvy granny). :-)

rob
by Gumby on Tue 8th Oct 2002 04:03 UTC

nice review and if you don't do any 3d you might want to look at matrox they have good 2d support and if there pci g450 didn't cost 100 compared to 50 for ati's I would get it. (although I will be getting a shuttle with the agp slot so I can get a 550 ;)

3D
by Rob on Tue 8th Oct 2002 04:18 UTC

Actually I do like to fire up Quake or UT or even TuxRacer every once in a while, so I love my GeForce. I tend to have the drivers installed even if I'm not using them. Since the 3D drivers do tend to be flaky, I usually just have 2 XF86Config files. One is named "XF86Config-2d" the other "XF86Config-3d". Then if I get the urge for mindless digital violence or whatever I just swap the files, hit CTRL-ALT-BKSPC and I'm ready to go. It only takes a few seconds and it pays for itself in time saved unhanging dead X servers.

It's not that the nVidia drivers will bring down a machine that's doing normal stuff, just that I've learned that the prettier an OpenGL screensaver is, the more likely it is to wreak havoc. I've also learned that if I'm using the 3D drivers I'll use the prettiest screensaver I can get my hands on in spite of that (I guess I'm a sucker for eye-candy). So I use the 2d drivers for doing "real" work.

RE: RE: ATI drivers
by Sulvas on Tue 8th Oct 2002 04:18 UTC

Wow, if this is your first article then I think you should really consider posting more articles like these. It is up to the level of many other helpful articles I've read. Keep on improving !!.

Thanks for considering my ATI 8500 64MB issue. I'm really interested on getting mplayer to work on Psyche. What would be the syntax to have it installed using APT with all the main codecs?.

THX

RE: mplayer
by Rob on Tue 8th Oct 2002 04:30 UTC

The quickest way to find out what's available is with the "apt-cache search" command. Just give it a general request and see what pops up.

"apt-cache search mplayer" turns up mplayer and mplayer-skins

If you then do "apt-get install mplayer mplayer-skins" apt will connect and figure out it also needs

"aalib divx4linux lame libdv libdvdcss libdvdread lirc"

Then it'll ask if you want to continue, and you can say yes and watch everything get installed. I don't really use anything but Ogle (just for watching DVDs occasionally) so I don't know if that constitutes "all the main codecs" or not. This would definitely get you started though. There are some codecs built for Mandrake 9.0 at http://plf.zarb.org ... if FreshRPMS hasn't included some codecs (like win32 and openquicktime) you want, you might be able to get the Mandrake source RPMS and use rpmbuild to rebuild them for Red Hat.

FreshRPMS also has some Xine packages, I believe.

RE: RE: mplayer
by Sulvas on Tue 8th Oct 2002 04:33 UTC

Thanks. Got enough material to work on for the next few days. Thanks again and please do consider posting more articles in the future.

Night.

Sulvas

Excellent article
by Richard on Tue 8th Oct 2002 04:39 UTC

Excellent article keep up the good work

Lycoris and SuSE still have a lot of better things.
by Alex on Tue 8th Oct 2002 04:53 UTC

First ofa ll if Redhat wan't tor eally makea good distro, they need something like YAST in SuSE 8.1. They're control center is pathetic and their package manger while friendly can not uninstall things that were not installed from cd and can not install packages from other source.

Lycoris also ahs amazing integration with Windows, I can easily browse my windows network and print, soemthing I could never do froma linux distro before.

Xandros has some great things too. I wish tehre could bea distro with all of these qualities.

driver wallthrough don't work
by stubert on Tue 8th Oct 2002 05:14 UTC

i tried the driver walkthrough and the kernel wouldn't build to a binary. so that pretty mich ends it there

RE: driver walkthrough
by Rob on Tue 8th Oct 2002 05:29 UTC

>>"i tried the driver walkthrough and the kernel wouldn't build to a binary. so that pretty mich ends it there"

Nah, one of the great things about Linux is that pretty much everything is fixable, it's just a matter of not giving up until you figure it out. :-)

Could you give the error that the build terminated with? Most likely you don't have the kernel sources / headers installed, which have to be present when building kernel modules (in this case, NVdriver).

Point to "Start Here -> System Settings -> Packages" and look under the "Development" heading. Make sure "Kernel Development" is checked, then click the "Update" button. After the kernel sources are installed, try the build again. If that doesn't help, feel free to e-mail me (since this comments section isn't for tech support) and I'll try to help.

Question ... comment.
by Darius on Tue 8th Oct 2002 05:35 UTC

First of all to the author ... great article!
Now for a question ;)

Does that fonts trick work for all distros or is that a Redhat only thing?

Because of modifications that Redhat makes to Gnome/KDE (whether for better or worse) and because I want to understand what goes on 'behind the scenes', I have pretty much decided to abandon Redhat and switch to a more 'pure' distribution. I personally don't like the idea of 'packages' and things being installed with dependencies when I don't know what the hell they are.
Plus, I am interested to see what 'pure' KDE & Gnome look like, unmodified ... but would still like to use my Windows fonts.

Re: You are wrong about KDE
by rajan r on Tue 8th Oct 2002 05:37 UTC

Now, this aplies to you and other KDEheads out there: The only change Red Hat made for the worse is renaming .desktop files used in the startup, to names not even similar to GNOME's for God know's what reason.

MOST (almost all, except the one mention on top) is changes for the better. For example, the hack to get rid of QFonts and to use Xft2 is so good...

Excellent article
by the arbiter on Tue 8th Oct 2002 05:47 UTC

This was one of the best articles I have seen posted on OS news. Your timing couldn't be better, as I will be installing RH8 this week and expect the information to prove most helpful. Thank you.

RE: You are wrong about KDE
by Rob on Tue 8th Oct 2002 05:48 UTC

The .desktop files issue was not intentional (or at least the EFFECT was not intentional). Somehow it slipped by not only the Red Hat development team but the Null beta testers as well until not long before the release. As soon as it was brought to light, it was slated to be fixed but there wasn't time before the release. Red Hat is aware of the issue though (from what I've seen on the lists) and intends to remedy it.

Once that is done, I can't think of any legitimate reason for saying Red Hat has crippled KDE ... this is bad, yes, but they intend to fix it. It was a mistake. You'll note that in the article I stressed that Red Hat hasn't *intentionally* shipped broken software, but sometimes things slip through the cracks.

To get a feel for what Red Hat is working toward, visit http://www.freedesktop.org ... I think pretty much all the changes Red Hat made to GNOME and KDE (to integrate them) are listed there somewhere.

How about do Red Hat Gnome review?
by someone on Tue 8th Oct 2002 05:52 UTC

I like your article, is there any chance you would do Red Hat and Gnome?

thank dude

Correction ...
by Rob on Tue 8th Oct 2002 05:52 UTC

>>"To get a feel for what Red Hat is working toward, visit http://www.freedesktop.org ... I think pretty much all the changes Red Hat made to GNOME and KDE (to integrate them) are listed there somewhere."

By "listed there" I didn't mean a literal list of what Red Hat has done, I meant that this site contains a list of proposals for creating unity among the desktops and Red Hat's changes come in large part from those proposals. Sorry I wasn't more clear.

>>"Does that fonts trick work for all distros or is that a Redhat only thing?"

I honestly don't know if other distros support it, since all the other ones I've ever used had a GUI font installer. :-) I wouldn't be surprised if the feature becomes more widespread though, as Red Hat's hacks to XFT and FreeType become more widely used.

Walkthrough
by SmallStepForMan on Tue 8th Oct 2002 05:52 UTC

Nice article, but you cant be serious. I have to do all that to get a usable system? Am I the only non-masochist left in the world? And this is supposed to be much easier to use? Forget it.

Had anyone ever manage to get PPPoE working on *any* distribution without actually understanding it? The reason (the ONLY reason) why I'm on Windows because I still can't figure out PPPoE and DSL in general and how to configure it on Linux. I manage to get it work on Mandrake 9.0 but only *one* application could work with it, gaim. But after a reboot, that app didn't work too *sigh*

Kinda frustrating. Dial-up was so much easier. On Windows XP, BTW, setting up this beast is a three step wizard. Modem: Aztech DSL Turbo 900; NIC: Prolink RealTek PFE 100TX. I'm only usaing Lantech Mini Switch A800E (8 Port 10/100Base-TX Switch, Auto MDIX)

Hopefully instructions of setting it up in Red Hat 8.0

Re: RE: You are wrong about KDE
by rajan r on Tue 8th Oct 2002 06:03 UTC

Me knows the bug wasn't intentional, I was a beta tester of Null, but *all* of my bug reports had to do with GNOME or Red Hat's tools.

Just wish I extensively used KDE though.

You are absolutely right
by Sunny on Tue 8th Oct 2002 06:06 UTC

You are absolutely right about those criticisms. RedHat cannot be Microsoft, don't even compare! Instead of criticism, we all should applaud it for doing such a great job. Perhaps point out the bad stuff and see it improve on the next version. Red Hat has made Linux on the desktop almost a reality. I haven't been using RedHat Linux since version 5.4, but this version has my support.

If you are new to Linux world, try this and learn little bit from it, share your experience with the rest of the geeks - because they are the ones who will improve and make it the way you want it to be.

great article Rob
by Pros-n-Cons on Tue 8th Oct 2002 06:08 UTC

It was nice to read though these threads without one flame on the writer or Eugina.
She's very critical in every review which of course pisses off certain users/developers who cant take critique, but she's doing exactly what she should. Anyway I don't know how you seemed to not piss anyone off, must be beginners luck.

RE: Beginner's luck.
by Rob on Tue 8th Oct 2002 06:28 UTC

Haha ... you have no idea!

I poured over this article for HOURS after it was written, changing a word here and there, tweaking a bit, clarifying and quantifying and ... you get the point. I tried my absolute best to word things in such a way as to not sound "preachy" or arrogant, yet still say what I meant to say. To be honest, I still expected to get flamed. There's a scary thought ... maybe it's still coming ...

Of course, I'm pretty sure if I had submitted the rough draft (which sucked a whole lot, trust me), I'd be a smoldering mess by this point.

Congratulations, Rob
by a on Tue 8th Oct 2002 06:39 UTC

Rob, this article is blessed with wisdom in its purest form ("nice, humble, wise", as they put it ;)
Any idea how to change the default web browser? (I'd rather have Konqueror than Mozilla in KDE...)

Drivers for ATI cards
by Arturas B. on Tue 8th Oct 2002 07:01 UTC


And what about http://gatos.sourceforge.net ? It works for me (I have ATI All-In-Wonder Pro - RAGE PRO chip based) well.

Sox with MP3 support for GnomeToaster?
by G0tt on Tue 8th Oct 2002 07:17 UTC

The installed version of Sox has no MP3 support. So when you try to use it to burn an audio-CD, you just get blank tracks ;-(. Has anyone found a recent sox RPM which fixes this bug?

Cheers

Truly constructive
by zoo on Tue 8th Oct 2002 07:30 UTC

This is one of the best and most informative dicussions on this site! Great job and maybe some others will follow with the same for other Os's or distroes?
This is a lot better than bitching about every little thing!!
Thanks!!!!

Re: RE: Beginner's luck.
by rajan r on Tue 8th Oct 2002 07:50 UTC

Something like when I wrote my first article:

http://www.osopinion.com/perl/story/17659.html

Wow, it's been a long time since I have been to osO....

RE: Konqeror as default
by Rob on Tue 8th Oct 2002 08:00 UTC

First, open up a Konsole and (as regular user in your home directory):

touch .htmlrc
echo "X11BROWSER=/usr/bin/konqueror" >> .htmlrc

This just creates a hidden file (.htmlrc) and adds the text in quotes to it. This overrides the system-wide HTMLView profile, so after restarting the X server GNOME apps such as Gaim will use Konq by default to open URLs.

For OpenOffice.org, start it up and point to "Tools -> Options -> OpenOffice.org -> External Programs"

"Profiles" -> KMail "Program" -> /usr/bin/kmail

This will let you choose "File -> Send -> Document As E-Mail" using KMail. A composer window will pop up with your document attached.

For HTTP: and HTTPS: you should specify:

/usr/bin/konqueror

You might also want to use Konq for FTP and (at the bottom) file manager. For e-mail, I specified:

/usr/bin/kmail

This has 2 annoying errors: when you click on a mailto: link in OO.o, it will pop open a KMail composer window with the ENTIRE link in the TO: field (that is, the "mailto:" part is still there). You have to remove the extra text manually before sending. Secondly, if KMail is already running (mine runs all the time) clicking on a mailto: link does nothing at all. Anyone know a workaround?

Anyway, since all KDE apps should already be using Konq by default, this takes care of everything I use regularly. The one thing (that I know of) that will still stubbornly open links with Mozilla instead of Konq is Evolution (which I don't even use), and I don't know off the top of my head how to change that. Anyone else know?

Editing XF86Config not needed
by kmp on Tue 8th Oct 2002 09:45 UTC

You don't have to edit the /etc/X11/XF86Config file to use the nVidia drivers. After installing them, launch the redhat-config-xfree86 utility (Display under System Settings) and click the Advanced tab. Then, under video card, click configure. In the driver box, simply type in nvidia and click ok. Log out, do a ctrl-alt-backspace and log back in. You should be using the nvidia drivers now.

About #LoadModule "dri"
by a on Tue 8th Oct 2002 09:54 UTC

why are we commenting out the DRI module in XFConfig?
isn't it supposed to be a Good Thing (TM)?
(I'm quite n00b in Linux GUI config, mostly use it for servers)
Thx

Big trouble with NTFS...
by Tomaso on Tue 8th Oct 2002 10:03 UTC

In RedHat 8.0 it' s impossible to read NTFS partitions, right? Someone managed to do it?

Congratulations
by Bob the Monkey on Tue 8th Oct 2002 10:03 UTC

Robert,

This is the best article to have ever appeared on OSNews.
It's well written, helpful and downright fantastic.
It was a joy to read.

Please take over as soon as possible.

On a side note:

If you visit http://mazinger.technisys.com.ar/pruebas-nick/mozilla/ , you will be able to install flash and java with 3 mouse clicks.

XPI is pretty cool.

RE: About #LoadModule "dri"
by montanus on Tue 8th Oct 2002 10:55 UTC

NVidia provides its own direct hardware acceleration layer (that's what the kernel module is for), so loading the XFree module on top of that would be a bad idea.

Amazing article, Rob. I haven't run Linux in a while but thanks to your article, I think I will give it another try pretty soon.

monty

NTFS...
by Will Rather Nottell on Tue 8th Oct 2002 11:01 UTC

... is pretty much impossible to work with under Linux. It has to be compiled into the kernel, and no major Linux distribution has dared doing that yet. Let me quantize a bit over it: Normally, features that don't work quite as well as one could wish are labeled "Experimental", but NTFS support is (as the only thing, iirc) dubbed as "DANGEROUS". Data corruption *will* occur (even if mounted as read-only, last time I checked). It all stems from the fact that MS has never released any specs for NTFS, so the developers are flying blind (sound familiar?).

Review
by Grant Bartlett on Tue 8th Oct 2002 11:17 UTC

This has to be one of the most excellet walkthroughs OSNews has posted to date. Excellent work, especially relating to KDE which is usually the used DE for newbies (and masters alike ;) )

i've installed the kdetoys RPM but all i get for kweather is a blank placeholder in the tray. there's a functioning weather applet in RH8's gnome desktop...

Most important: /usr/share/config/kdeglobals
by Anonymous on Tue 8th Oct 2002 11:47 UTC

Removing the lines

[KDE Action Restrictions]
action/help_about_kde=false
action/help_report_bug=false

readds the according menu entries. And dumping the whole file disables the BlueCurve theme and activates single click defaults for all users.

NTFS support in Redhat 8.0
by Gaurang on Tue 8th Oct 2002 12:38 UTC

There is a comment somewhere above asking how to install NTFS support in Linux. And there is another telling that NTFS support in Linux is DANGEROUS!!!????

NTFS READ SUPPORT in Linux is USABLE, only WRITE SUPPORT is dangerous. So you can without hesitation install NTFS Read Support in Red Hat 8.0.

But theres some problem. Red Hat's modifications to the kernel (adding stabilty, bug fixes, security fixes) have made the NTFS drivers not compilable with the default kernel you get with RedHat 8.0. (redhat does not support ntfs, so they dont mind if the ntfs drivers not compile with their kernel)

To get NTFS Support, there are two ways.
One is to do what is written here-
http://www.getlinuxonline.com/omp/distro/RedHat/ompntfs2.html

That was written for Redhat 7.3. There's a high chance that it will work for you fro 8.0, but it might not (I dont know).

If it doesnt work, then go for method 2, which I will outline here.

Download a vanilla kernel 2.4.19 (vanilla means "pure" with no modifications by any distro company - get a vanilla kernel from http://www.kernel.org).

Then download the RedHat Kernel Source package (or get it from your Redhat CDs using the provided GUI package manager - or maybe you already have it? check /usr/src/2.4.18-14), and you will find many config files in configs directory of the kernel source. Choose the one which is appropriate for your system (most probably kernel-2.4.18.i686.config) and copy to the vanilla kernel source directory as .config.
Run make xconfig and enable NTFS ReadOnly Support.

Compile and Install. (for kernel compiling, see the Kernel HOWTO on http://www.tldp.org)

You are there!





Great work guys
by Anon on Tue 8th Oct 2002 12:42 UTC

I have been a Mandrake user for years and now thanks to all the noise made by the people who are complaining about RH 8 modifications to KDE/GNOME to make them look similar, etc I decided to give it a try to see what was all about. Guess what? I LOVE IT and I am very much impressed by the looks of the desktop and especially font rendering

I think RH has received a lot of 'free' publicity" from the people who all they do is complain. Guys there are other choices. If you don't like RH 8 and prefer Mandrake 9 or SUSE 8.1, Lindows 2.0 etc, by all means just use what you like.

It is taking me some time to adjust and finding the applications I like since they are in different menus but with time I will get used to them. (I don't like their GNOME folder icons on KDE Konqueror. I think Konqueror folder icons are better looking. I am even spending a lot more time in GNOME, something I never even considered doing before.

I am just tired of some people always telling me how things should be. I use what fits me. Do I care what sofware runs the phone companies backends? No I don't, as long as my phone works reliably I really don't give a damn whether it's a supercomputer or a Commodore 64.

What does this mean?
by Chris on Tue 8th Oct 2002 12:59 UTC

"As of this writing, Macromedia is conducting a beta test of Flash 6.0."

Does this mean that Macromedia is making Flash for Linux, or is he talking about a plugin?

By the way, great article. Very well written. It got by excited about installing RedHat 8.0 and blowing away Mandrake 9.0beta4. Anyone else notice this: You get a linux distro installed and configured to your liking, play with it for a little while, then right we you are through with it, you blow it away becase some new distro has come out that you want to try?

Thanks
by Anonymous on Tue 8th Oct 2002 13:23 UTC

I'll echo the sentiments posted by many here -- thanks for the great article!

As a long-time Mandrake and SuSE user, I fell in love with the first 8.0 "Limbo" beta and now I'm running 8.0 full-time. I have a few gripes with it (as I do with all distros) including: no menu-editor (but that's a Gnome fault, not RH), no way to use the awesome new package manager to install from ftp, no samba configuration gui (I hate swat), and no intgration of fonts installed in ~/.fonts and OO.o (as you point out).

Other than those issues, it is most beautiful, most stable, most professional-looking distribution I've tried. I really like Mandrake 9.0 too, but RH 8.0 has won me over. I've got all my plugins working great, including those installed with my crossover plugin, java, etc. My nvidia drivers are working great and I'm loving the UT2003 demo.

It's all good!

Note to RH: keep up the amazing work!!

RE: NTFS ....
by rockwell on Tue 8th Oct 2002 14:12 UTC

//It all stems from the fact that MS has never released any specs for NTFS, so the developers are flying blind (sound familiar?).//

Hmm... maybe that's because NTFS is one of the core security components for NT-based systems, and releasing specs on it would pretty much defeat the purpose?

Duh. Typical Penguinista troll.

NTFS - rockwell
by follerec on Tue 8th Oct 2002 14:32 UTC

right. security through obscurity.

Wish/Whine List
by linux_baby on Tue 8th Oct 2002 14:56 UTC

This is one of the most productive articles we've had around here. An excellent example of what we should be doing.

Eugenia, how about compiling a wish/whine list for Redhat 8? We've had tons of suggestions about the things that suck in Redhat, and how the product could be better. But they are all scattered all over the place. Maybe you could design a simple page where people can input their suggestions??? If we have all the suggestions in one place, its would probably be a lot more useful as feedback material.

Re: Wish/Whine List
by Chris on Tue 8th Oct 2002 15:17 UTC

Yes, but would Redhat listen? That is the $64,000 question...

Rpm rebuilding
by Francisco on Tue 8th Oct 2002 15:49 UTC

Nice article that actually is useful to a newbie. I am getting sick of the reviews.

But... It would be nice to people to know how to PROPERLY rebuild a rpm. rpm --rebuild package.rpm please! Your way is for people that love to find needles in the haystack

Erm, where in hell did you learn how to install a SRPM ?!?!?!
by Lightman on Tue 8th Oct 2002 16:06 UTC

quoting from the article :

rpm -i NVIDIA* (or rpm -ivh NVIDIA* for verbose output and to print hash marks [#] indicating installation progress)

rpmbuild -bb NVIDIA* (“rpmbuild” should be self-explanatory, the bb means “build binary” -- man rpmbuild at the console or #rpmbuild into Konqueror's address bar or a command box for more information)
-----

Now, are you nuts or what ?!?!?

You're *NOT* supposed to install (rpm -i ..) a SRPM. What you're supposed to do is :

rpmbuild --rebuild yoursrpmpackage.src.rpm

then under /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/iX86/ (and this depends on the srpm, could be something other than i386 ...) you will find your nice, newly compiled RPM...

Installing Redhat 8.0
by Mike on Tue 8th Oct 2002 16:06 UTC

Hey all. Good article, I really found it informative. But I have yet to install redhat 8.0 so Im really eager to do so. Heres my question, when I install 8.0 off the cds, will it upgrade my current linux setup so I dont lose all my settings and scripts, etc... ?
( I was hoping I could just download redhat 8.0 rpms like I did for 7.1 to 7.3 upgrade).
Or is it going to be a clean install, and I need to start over again? I figure thats not too big of a deal, I just would need to backup my data in the linux partition, then reformat that partition, then install linux. So any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Re: Installing Redhat 8.0
by Lightman on Tue 8th Oct 2002 16:08 UTC

Mike, anaconda (the redhat installer) lets you choose if you want a fresh install or if you want an upgrade.

So, yes, you could just upgrade from 7.3...
But ... I suggest you to backup all your critical files first. You know, just in case ;)

Controversy is not about look and feel
by Mongre on Tue 8th Oct 2002 16:16 UTC

The article is good except that you are incorrect about one key point. The issue that the KDE group has with RedHat is not that RedHat is making KDE look different, but rather applying incompatible broken patches and not contributing them back to the core KDE team.

The problem stems from RedHat either failing to understand, or ignoring the fact that KDE is amazing customizable without even touching code. They do not need to break the libraries to get their "branding".

The other incorrect assumption that seems to be made is that this is a marketing or management level thing, that is incorrect. This is a developer level thing. What you have is traditional gnome teams making incompatible changes to core KDE libs and trying to hide the controversy they created by blaming marketing for the need to "brand" the desktop.

You made a comment about other major distributors shipping KDE. One thing you did not mention that of them all only RedHat is not submitting their patches to the KDE group.

I am sorry but the fact is your are defending a company who is perhaps for the first time in its history violating the spirit of Open Source. The spirit of cooperation.

Oh and before you go spout off about spirit not being important or ancillary you might well remember why you even have an operating system to review here.

Open source is all about spirit, RedHat would do well to remember that.

Control Center???
by Xenos on Tue 8th Oct 2002 16:19 UTC

The article mentions the Control Center??? Where the hell is it??? I looked all over hell for it on 8.0! It's not on the desktop, not in the menus. For that matter where is the Wine Configuration GUI??? It took me FOREVER just to get my stinking printer working! A PRINTER for crying out loud!!!!!!! And what happened to the Xconfigurator tool???? Their "display" gui tools won't let me set 32-bit colors! Only 16 or 24, and I don't have 24. What, am I stuck with 16? This is an improvement?? I'm not a Linux guru by any means, so someone tell me if I'm just smoking something.

Re: Re: Installing Redhat 8.0
by Mike on Tue 8th Oct 2002 16:21 UTC

That brings up another question ;) . I was thinking, in terms of backing up my data, I could always just mount a windows share onto my linux box and copy all the files there, especially since my windows system has much more space for backing up. I would back up my linux box data on the firewire drive I have, but I dont think there are any drivers out there for my adaptec card. What do you think about the backing up on the windows share idea?

re: kde baselibs & 'microsoft of linux'
by unween on Tue 8th Oct 2002 16:23 UTC

hi!

first off: great article! i'm an avid gnome user for a few simple reasons (i'll list them below, less important), but your info on kde is highly interesting nevertheless.

next: i wouldn't have been able to sum up my views on the redhat/kde issue in a better way. great to know that people with my opinion are able to voice it eloquently!

there are however two small comments i'd like to contribute. if i repeat earlier posts... well, i didn't read all of them, and i don't mind if this post serves as an affirmation of others.

first comment: if indeed the kde baselibs have been modified in a way to impair compatibility with some kde apps that would not be a good thing. while being perfectly allright in terms of licensing issues, reducing functionality is not in the interest of the kde community (developers and users) and may be criticized. then again, in the light of what rob wrote about redhat being primarily a support company, i would assume this reduction of usability should be seen as a bug that needs to be fixed - simply because it will not in the end help redhat reduce support efforts/cost.

second comment: i understand the 'microsoft of linux' kind of argument from a certain perspective. provided you're the kind of user that uses a gnu/linux distribution as a desktop system (only or primarily), and your choice is indeed redhat, the chances that you will not veer away from redhat simply because they've broken kde are rather high. in that light, redhat can easily exert a certain kind of dominance - which can easily be counterd, but only if more active people do so. i suppose the fear is that people will go along with redhat's changes because redhat's big and people are lazy. if that's your fear i'll have to say: it'd be in _your_ (the reader's) hands to do something about that.

that's it. now continue your arguing/discussing/commenting/flaming. ;)

Re: Installing Redhat 8.0
by Lightman on Tue 8th Oct 2002 16:25 UTC

Well, could work. But...
I wouldn't simply copy them.
Instead, a much nicer tar -cvpsf /yourWinpartition/yourbackup.tar would be a much better idea, mainly because this would let you conserve all the files attributes and ownerships... ;)

Re: Installing Redhat 8.0
by Lightman on Tue 8th Oct 2002 16:33 UTC

Erm, sorry, should've read "because this would let you preserve all the ..." ... ;)

Compiling Source RPMs
by Kevin on Tue 8th Oct 2002 16:33 UTC

You don't have to install a Source RPM to compile it. You can just use the rpmbuild command like:

rpmbuild --rebuild <name of>.src.rpm

When it completes, just go to /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386 and there you will find the now compiled rpms.

Great article
by jh on Tue 8th Oct 2002 16:37 UTC

Just wanted to say this is a great article. Very easy to read, and it covers the major issues new users of RH 8 will run into and want to fix. I wish more of these practical linux usage articles would be written for things like networking, server/workstation security, etc.

RE: Control Center
by Andrew on Tue 8th Oct 2002 16:49 UTC

As far as 32bit color vs 24bit color. From your perspective there is really no difference between 24bit and 32bit. The same no. of colors. 32bit just carriers a little more information to describr transparency. Anyway just select 24bit color you'll be fine and get the same no. of colors.

Here's a link to an explanation of the difference http://www.sonic.net/~themime/frameset.html" http://www.sonic.ne...

You can also look at some the web authoring sites for this info.

Sorry I can't help with the other stuff.

NTFS compiled as module in RH8.0
by captalvins on Tue 8th Oct 2002 16:54 UTC

I have successfully compiled the ntfs module and using it to
read NTFS partition on my desktop.
Here is what I did:
0) become root
1) rpm install the kernel sources that comes with the RH8.0
distribution ( if not aleardy done )
2) cd /usr/src/linux-2.4
3) make oldconfig
4) edit .config file and enable NTFS readonly option
CONFIG_NTFS_FS=m
5) rm /usr/src/linux-2.4/include/linux/modules/*
6) make dep
7) make modules
8) make modules_install
9) cp -R /lib/modules/2.4.18-14custom/kernel/fs/ntfs /lib/modules/2.4.18-14/kernel/fs
10)insmod ntfs

PS:
a) fdisk -l [ this will list all partitions including
the NTFS ones.
b) http://linux-ntfs.sourceforge.net/info/index.html
c) my /etc/fstab line for mounting the ntfs partition in
/dev/hda1 to /mnt/win/C

/dev/hda1 /mnt/win/C ntfs defaults 0 0

A couple of points ...
by Rob on Tue 8th Oct 2002 16:54 UTC

As to using "rpm -i" to install the .src RPMS, I wanted people to understand what happens when you work with a source package (as in, where the various bits go and why). Sometimes you need to patch/edit the sources or spec file before rebuilding a package, but if I'd just shown how to rebuild the .src.rpm itself, a lot of people wouldn't even know those things exist.

I've had a report via e-mail that the more traditional methods of installing TrueType fonts from the command line will work on Red Hat 8.0, but in my case doing it the traditional way was flaky, so I posted a way that I *knew* would work and had the added benefit of *not* being able to screw up the user's system. Maybe there are still some issues here RH needs to take care of, or maybe my installation is slightly flawed (if it is, I'm most likely not alone, meaning the traditional method might cause more harm than good for some people). I really think Red Hat should have included a reliable GUI config tool for this.

>>"Does this mean that Macromedia is making Flash for Linux, or is he talking about a plugin?"

At about the same time Adobe releases GoLive, AfterEffects and Acrobat for Linux, I bet. :-) I should have been more clear, I guess: I just meant the plugin.



Re: A couple of points...
by Lightman on Tue 8th Oct 2002 17:01 UTC

Ok, I can see what you mean regarding the srpm issue.
But, being this article mainly for noob, I think it could be a little ... hrm ... intimidating ?

Anyway, yeah, sure, if you install the srpm with rpm -i you can do some nice things to the srpm (like fiddling with Makefiles, for example)... But it ain't the fastest way to install a srpm ;)

Btw, great article, and great points regarding RH decisions on kde... ;)

Pico is not loaded by default...
by Chris on Tue 8th Oct 2002 17:08 UTC

In order to use Pico as described in the NVidia section of this document, you will have to go to the "Text Based Internet" application section of the RedHat package manager and load Pine. Loading Pine will also install the Pico editor.

Regards

Re: Colors
by Rayiner Hashem on Tue 8th Oct 2002 17:20 UTC

Err, sorry to be pendantic, but 32-bit color is absolutely not different from 24-bit color. In theory, 32-bit color in X uses 8 bits per pixel with 8 bits of padding, because memory accesses that are not aligned on 4 byte boundries are really slow. X definately does not support alpha transparency on the primary surface yet. Now, this is a moot point, because in the X configurator, 24-bit color actually means the 32-bit 8-8-8-padded format. So choosing 24-bit color has no drawbacks, neither in visual quality nor performance.

Mongre:
by Aitvo on Tue 8th Oct 2002 17:22 UTC

"I am sorry but the fact is your are defending a company who is perhaps for the first time in its history violating the spirit of Open Source. The spirit of cooperation. "

If you people would shut up and get off their backs, perhaps they would give you code. You bitch and bitch and bitch about them breaking KDE, then piss and moan some more because they don't give you their changes?! GET A LIFE PEOPLE!

Collection of ideas
by Jay on Tue 8th Oct 2002 17:26 UTC

It has become apparent to me that Red Hat 8 has really set off fireworks. To me, RH 8 is a Linux watershed event. Now, please, don't take that as flamebait - I am in favor of all Linux distros and would be horrified if there were not distros of all stripes for all types of Linux users. I just ordered Vector Linux to help support them. But, I think RH has achieved a milestone for Linux on the corporate desktop and perhaps even the personal desktop.

Anyway, my whole point is to second the motion of collecting ideas for improving RH 8 and sending them in. We have three main sources - Eugenia's overall review, my Joe User review and Rob's review that he obviously spent an enormous amount of time on. And, I don't mean just the reviews, but the hundreds of comments that sprang from them. LOL, I'm not exactly sure how this would be done...it would be time consuming for sure...but I think this is a big deal and it would be fun to send a report to Red Hat acknowledging their achievement yet supplying many outstanding suggestions. OSNews with clout!!

Re: ControlPanel
by linux_baby on Tue 8th Oct 2002 17:31 UTC

> It took me FOREVER just to get
> my stinking printer working!
> A PRINTER for crying out loud!!!!!!!

Why was that? What sort of printer? And what were you doing? If you give more details, maybe someone might offer helpful suggestions. There is a printer tool under "System Tools" (if I remember correctly. Using that tool, my printer was up and running in less than a minute.

Re: Chris:
> yes, but would Redhat listen?
> That is the $64,000 questions.

Well, who knows? Redhat wants feedback from users, that's for sure. OSNEWS is pretty big these days. Unless the people at Redhat are dumb, they would be following up on all these reviews.

Here's what Mike Harris of Red Hat had to say on the limbo/null mailing list about the state of NTFS support in Red Hat Linux:

The only problem right now really, is that Microsoft has patents on parts of NTFS technology and it is not clear if the Linux NTFS driver touches on any areas of Microsoft's patents.

This is a legal issue that needs looking into. We really do need to add NTFS support, but only once we're sure it is legal to do so without getting a team of Microsoft lawyers showing up on our doorstep.

Another issue, is NTFS tools. mkntfs aparently works, but we don't have other tools that would be nice to have. That is being worked on as I understand however.

This will solve itself in time I believe.

This is great ...
by Rob on Tue 8th Oct 2002 17:33 UTC

I've been reading back through the comments, and they're great. This is what I was hoping for when I wrote the article, but didn't actually expect to see. I am just one person and while I know my way around a Linux box I'm certainly not a guru, so I knew the article would be less than perfect, that it would have some holes, errors, inconsistencies, and who knows what else.

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who corrected me or added useful info to clarify things I didn't have quite right or didn't explain clearly enough. You could have just as easily flamed me for being an idiot. Instead, the comments end up being even more valuable than the article itself, which is the way I think the comments section should be used in the first place.

you're better off putting them here: http://bugzilla.redhat.com

I'm pretty sure bug reports and RFEs in their bugzilla database get higher priority than posts on OSNews.

Re: Mongre by Aitvo
by Rayiner Hashem on Tue 8th Oct 2002 17:55 UTC

Go f*** yourself, Aitvo. If you want to sit there and take it from someone else, then fine. Don't criticize others for not wanting to do the same. The simple issue here is that KDE is not RedHat's product. In using someone else's work, they have a moral obligation to the people who created KDE beyond the legal requirements of the GPL. If KDE people don't like what RedHat did to KDE, then it is their right to bitch about it. After that, they certainly have a legal requirement to abide by the GPL (though I'm not too worried about that yet). It's bigger than you buddy. It's not just about giving you an easier Linux distro to use. It's about making sure that the major Linux distributor doesn't become the kind of money-grubbing moral-less company that MS is. Let's just make it nice and clear for all the newbies. There are too options:

1) Putting up with crap just to get a "better" product.
----------------------------------------------
This is the BAD option. Don't even think about it. If, at any point, you contemplate it, switch immedietly to Windows.

2) Getting great products under YOUR terms.
----------------------------------------------
This is the GOOD option. No matter how commercialized Linux gets (and I'd be perfectly ecstatic to see lots of people making lots of money off Linux) its gotta be about freedom. The GPL guarentees this to some extent, but, in software, as in life, the biggest danger to freedom is a lazy, self-centered populous.

Re: ControlPanel
by Xenos on Tue 8th Oct 2002 17:57 UTC

Andrew: You miss read my point. I know what the difference between 24-bit & 32-bit color. My video cards does *support* 24-bit color, only 32. So, if 8.0 only gives my a choice of 16 and 24, I'm stuck with 16. Besides, contrary to what you say, there is a noticable difference, and its in speed (at least, that's what I've noticed). Is there something I have to do to get it to allow 32-bit?

Linux_baby: I have one of those printers that works with only cups. With the KDE cups gui that was in 7.3, it was easy. But with 8.0, I had to start and stop the cups server and set the default printer sevice to cups and reboot, all of these SEVERAL times before it work even let me create a printer! Why did they get rid of all the nice and easy KDE tools?

Removing KDE from RedHat 8.0
by Jason on Tue 8th Oct 2002 18:30 UTC

I'm a relatively 'light' user of Linux for some time now, but I do really like the new 8.0. I chose upon setup to intall the Desktop setting. Later I was messing around and used the Add/Remove Packages to add KDE. I've never been a big fan of KDE so I would like to remove it. The Add/Remove Packages shows it's installed, but does not give the ability to remove. How would I go about this?

Noatun
by Rick on Tue 8th Oct 2002 18:40 UTC

Good article!

Has anyone gotten noatun to pla MP3s? It renders a little clearer on my TV screen for an MP3 box attached to my stereo.

TIA
Rick

RE: Konqeror as default
by sjr on Tue 8th Oct 2002 18:53 UTC

I use Evolution, and also couldn't figure out how to change its default browser. So I renamed /usr/bin/mozilla to /usr/bin/mozilla-orig, and linked /usr/bin/mozilla to my browser of choice:

su
cd /usr/bin
mv mozilla mozilla-orig
ln -s netscape mozilla

The disadvantage is that I had to change all references to "mozilla" (e.g., in menus or desktop icons) to now reference "mozilla-orig", but it was a one-time change.

Re: Removing KDE from RedHat 8.0
by linux_baby on Tue 8th Oct 2002 19:07 UTC

>> The Add/Remove Packages shows it's installed, but does not give the ability to remove. How would I go about this?
>>

I have never actually done this, but I would have presumed you would need to:

1. Fire up the package manage
2. UNcheck the KDE packages you want to remove
3. Click on OK.

Don't take my word for it though, I don't remember trying that.

RE: RE: Konqueror as default
by Craig Reece on Tue 8th Oct 2002 19:39 UTC

<em> use Evolution, and also couldn't figure out how to change its default browser. So I renamed /usr/bin/mozilla to /usr/bin/mozilla-orig, and linked /usr/bin/mozilla to my browser of choice:</em>

This was really useful (and bloody obvious if I only applied the right thought process to the problem). Thanks!

apt-get... goodby Debian, welcome RedHat 8 !
by Anonymous on Tue 8th Oct 2002 21:01 UTC

apt-get ? wauw that's the only reason why I am running Debian now. I didn't know that. Read this for the time in this article, great man!!

Edwin
NL

Apt for RH 8.0
by Anonymous on Tue 8th Oct 2002 21:41 UTC
Rayiner Hashem:
by Anonymous on Tue 8th Oct 2002 21:56 UTC

"If you want to sit there and take it from someone else, then fine. Don't criticize others for not wanting to do the same."

You know, RedHat is the only one taking it here. I'm sure if you all shut your damn holes and asked for the code nicely they would be glad to give it to you if they haven't already. Remember the source RPMS? They are all there, go get it your damn selves and leave them the hell alone already. I'm really getting tired of hearing all you l337 wanna be fools bitch about RedHat. Get over it. So they didn't check code into CVS, I don't recall it being a GPL requirement. Don't bitch about RedHat excersizing their freedoms if you expect to retain that very same freedom for yourself. IMHO if you people can't grow up, then just go away. All your complaining is doing is making KDE look bad, way to go peeps.

Rayiner Hashem:
by Aitvo on Tue 8th Oct 2002 21:57 UTC

"If you want to sit there and take it from someone else, then fine. Don't criticize others for not wanting to do the same."

You know, RedHat is the only one taking it here. I'm sure if you all shut your damn holes and asked for the code nicely they would be glad to give it to you if they haven't already. Remember the source RPMS? They are all there, go get it your damn selves and leave them the hell alone already. I'm really getting tired of hearing all you l337 wanna be fools bitch about RedHat. Get over it. So they didn't check code into CVS, I don't recall it being a GPL requirement. Don't bitch about RedHat excersizing their freedoms if you expect to retain that very same freedom for yourself. IMHO if you people can't grow up, then just go away. All your complaining is doing is making KDE look bad, way to go peeps.

Brilliant
by marcus on Wed 9th Oct 2002 02:13 UTC

I'm a complete Linux newbie, and this article saved me hours I'm sure! I went through every step of the tutorials (except the NVidia part as I have an old 3dFX card) and got it all right the first time.

You really do have a gift for explaining things. Now to be able to browse my Windows network from Red Hat ;)

Browsing your Windows network
by Bob the Monkey on Wed 9th Oct 2002 02:38 UTC

Is really easy :-)

Click your 'Start Here' or 'whoever's Home' icons.
In the address bar, type:

smb://

There you go.
And it works well, too.

why not port a clean kde to RH8.0
by raul pitti on Wed 9th Oct 2002 02:40 UTC

Besides the freedom to modify kde ( wich RH CAN DO!!!), anyone can choose not to install any wm by default and install a clean KDE ?
or am i wrong??

...
by rajan r on Wed 9th Oct 2002 07:13 UTC

Chris: Does this mean that Macromedia is making Flash for Linux, or is he talking about a plugin?

Obviously the plugin. The editor is called Flash MX.

Mongre: The issue that the KDE group has with RedHat is not that RedHat is making KDE look different, but rather applying incompatible broken patches and not contributing them back to the core KDE team.

Amazing to note that most KDE developers, if not all, actually bitching about this never once used Red Hat 8.0 nor its betas. Besides, the fact that Red Hat never contribute the patches back to KDE is because many of these patches is vendor/distribution-specific, and wouldn't be accepted by KDE. Other patches that aren't distribution-specific already have its altenatives in the CVS, heading for either 3.1 or 3.2 releases. (And I noticed, nobody bitched about Xandros or Lycoris or Lindows changes not going back to KDE...)

Mongre: The problem stems from RedHat either failing to understand, or ignoring the fact that KDE is amazing customizable without even touching code. They do not need to break the libraries to get their "branding".

Ahhh, the usual. Now, for an example, tell me how do you place XFT2 as the font renderer without any changes to the code?

Mongre: What you have is traditional gnome teams making incompatible changes to core KDE libs and trying to hide the controversy they created by blaming marketing for the need to "brand" the desktop.

What makes you think it is GNOME developers changing KDE? Ahhh, pure FUD. Love this season.

Mongre: One thing you did not mention that of them all only RedHat is not submitting their patches to the KDE group.

Red Hat is a keen supporter of GNOME, yet they didn't contributed back the bulk of the patches into GNOME. Nooooooo.... they didn't. Besides, these distributions have little by little turn their focus away from the desktop, and the smaller ones supporting Linux (including Lindows.com. a KDE League supporter) don't give back their patches to KDE.

Think about that.

Mongre: I am sorry but the fact is your are defending a company who is perhaps for the first time in its history violating the spirit of Open Source. The spirit of cooperation.

Hehe, by you standards, they have violated the so-called spirit of OSS (remember 7.0 with the broken GCC?) many times. I'm sure Red Hat is willing to co-operate with KDE< but KDE developers have been very cold towards Red Hat in general. They expect Red Hat to support KDE as much as they do with GNOME....

Xenos: Their "display" gui tools won't let me set 32-bit colors! Only 16 or 24, and I don't have 24.

In X11, 24bit=32bit. 32bit only adds alpha transperancy, which X11 by default doesn't support.

Xenos: Andrew: You miss read my point. I know what the difference between 24-bit & 32-bit color. My video cards does *support* 24-bit color, only 32.

Firstly, I think you meant doesn't instead of does. Here am I running RH 8.0 under 24-bit colour mode, while the GPU documentation says 16-bit or 32-bit. Try it out first, if it doesn't work, fill in a bug report.

Xenos: Linux_baby: I have one of those printers that works with only cups.

Which is? (brand name and model)

raul pitti: why not port a clean kde to RH8.0

It is entirely possible to run vanilla KDE without any changes on Red Hat, not need to port.

Thank you
by Koutsos on Wed 9th Oct 2002 09:08 UTC

Thank you for a trully great article !! Plz, we need more articles like this one covering other aspects of Redhat than the ones in the "official" books.

Great coverage of Redhat 8.0 and related issues!
by Anonymous on Wed 9th Oct 2002 09:22 UTC

Robert,

Thanks for the excellent article. As a recent Redhat 8.0 convert, as well as a KDE user I found this article very helpful in finding some of the settings I was used to.

You all at OSnews.com are doing such an excellent job of covering Redhat 8.0. I hope you keep this up. The reviews/comments/etc are very well done.

Thanks!

Re: why not port a clean kde to RH8.0
by your mom on Wed 9th Oct 2002 10:05 UTC

are you ok? did you forget to take your drugs again?

E friendly?
by Robert on Wed 9th Oct 2002 12:09 UTC

My preferred windower is Enlightenment, is RH8 E friendly? and is synAPTic E friendly?

FONT UPDATE
by Rob on Wed 9th Oct 2002 13:03 UTC



It seems I was wrong about the lack of the KDE Font Installer in Red Hat 8, and this is certainly one instance where I couldn't be happier to be proved wrong. :-)

Further up in the comments, you'll see rajan and myself discussing the ".desktop" file bug in RH8. I received an e-mail pointing out that the font installer .desktop application IS there, if you know where to look. Because my fonts are fine the way they are, I haven't personally tested this, but if you want to, here's how:

Fire up Konqueror (file manager) and navigate to

/usr/share/applications

Now look for the file called "kde-kcmfontinst.desktop" ... click it and the Font Installer will pop up. Point it to your fonts and off you go (again, I haven't tested it personally, but I have verified that it's actually there).

This will install the fonts for your regular user. If you want to work system-wide, from Kicker point to Extras -> System Tools -> File Manager - Super User Mode to start Konq as root user.

Informative Article
by Rick Gatewood on Wed 9th Oct 2002 13:13 UTC

Thanks for the very informative article. I have been using Linux for nearly two years now and I am always looking for helpful howto articles like this.

I am constantly pulled between Redhat and Mandrake. Mandrake usually wins but I have to admit that I do like the look and feel of RH 8.0.

Fonts for Mozilla?
by Lars on Wed 9th Oct 2002 14:28 UTC

I tried the .fonts trick for getting *.ttf fonts on and it worked for the KDE stuff, but Mozilla still doesn't see them. Any ideas?

Pb to load NVDRIVER
by Kakus on Wed 9th Oct 2002 14:34 UTC

I had recently installed RH8.0 and tried to install 3123 Drivers but after the installation when i try to load the Nvdriver module this error message appeared. Can anyone help
me ?

Error message :

You appear to be compiling the NVdriver kernel module with a compiler different from the one that was used to compile the running kernel...

thanks

Mozilla
by Rob on Wed 9th Oct 2002 14:49 UTC

The Mozilla that comes with Red Hat 8 isn't XFT-enabled, so even if you add good fonts the built-in Moz is going to display them poorly.

Forunately, getting an XFT-enabled Mozilla is very simple.

Go here:

http://fontconfig.org/mozilla/

and click on "Pre-built production versions". Grab the newest build and save it to your machine. What you're downloading is a "ready-to-surf" Mozilla. That is, wherever you extract it, it'll be self-contained and ready to go.

I put it in my home directory, since I'm the only user on my machine and root has full access to my home directory anyway, of course.

Extract the tarball (as regular user, not root) with:

tar xvzf mozilla-02-09-03.tar.gz (replace with whatever build you're using)

This will extract the files to a directory called "mozilla" in your home directory. To run it:

~/mozilla/mozilla

And off you go. Now, by default it will not pick up your built-in Mozilla's plugins, and all your menu/desktop/panel links will start the built-in Moz. Also, anything that starts Moz when you click an URL (such as Evolution) will start the old Mozilla. To fix this (after you make sure the new one is working right, of course):

cd ~/mozilla/plugins
ln -s /usr/lib/mozilla-1.0.1/plugins/* .

This will let the new Mozilla see the built-in version's plugins (this also assumes you have the plugins for the built-in version installed). The "ln" command will give you an error saying it can't overwrite the "null" plugin, which you can safely ignore.

Now, if you want all your menus and apps to start the new version instead of the old, just do (as root user this time):

mv /usr/bin/mozilla /usr/bin/mozilla-old
ln -s ~/mozilla/mozilla /usr/bin/

This moves the old link out of the way (you can start your built-in Moz with the command "mozilla-old" now) and replaces it with a link to your new XFT-enabled version, which will render fonts just as beautifully as Konqeror. In my case, the XFT-enabled version automatically picked up my fonts, too.

Another Correction
by Rob on Wed 9th Oct 2002 15:37 UTC

After doing some reading at http://www.freshrpms.net it came to my attention that there are no "fine folks at FreshRPMS" -- there is one lone guy who apparently works very, very hard to provide this resource for the community (only to have people like me come along and not give him credit!).

My article refers to FreshRPMS in a general sense as if it were a group effort, which detracts from the hard work of the person truly responsible. Find out for yourself at

http://freshrpms.net/about.html

Be sure to drop Matthias a line and let him know how useful the custom packages and apt repository are ... his hard work adds FAR more usability to Red Hat (and not just 8.0) than all the sections of my article put together, and I feel like a jerk for not pointing that out clearly in the body of the article. In my defense, I was focusing on getting the tech stuff right and just *assumed* FreshRPMS was a group or community effort (since the work required to maintain it must be enormous). But we all know exactly what assumptions are good for, don't we?

Again, my apolgies for not giving credit where it was due.

Re: Control Center???
by Gerry tool on Wed 9th Oct 2002 17:00 UTC

Xenos>The article mentions the Control Center??? Where the hell is it??? I looked all over hell for it on 8.0! It's not on the desktop, not in the menus.

On my KDE menu it is the 8th line from the bottom just above Find Files. OR, it's just a command line away - kcontrol.

Great article
by Kevin Donnelly on Wed 9th Oct 2002 18:48 UTC

This was a really interesting article. I don't use Red Hat, but I still found out 4 things I didn't know before. This is the sort of practical article I really like, because it spurs you on to try new things.

Good article Robert
by Harry on Wed 9th Oct 2002 18:55 UTC

Thanks
Keep up the good work

mp3 in nautilus and noatun
by Marcel on Wed 9th Oct 2002 20:39 UTC

OK, xmms works now, but I can't get the 'preview' function in Konqueror to work. Konqueror crashes when I click on an mp3. It's still has file association with mp3 because I upgraded. I just want my full mp3 support back and I'm willing to do anything for that (except switching to winXP :-)

Redhat's advise on using ogg is cheap. ogg can not replace mp3 because it can not play it. A real solution would be very much appreciated.

Fonts are still terrible over here. With anti-aliasing it's OK, but there's some bug with xinerama that displays my desktop icon text at a random place somewhere on my two monitors.
I guess this is a problem of either KDE or my X driver (G550) or again the fonts.

omg
by mahi on Wed 9th Oct 2002 20:58 UTC

i am a new linux user (tried mandrake 8 a year ago, left it)...every time i try to do the driver update, after i edit the xf86config file after i restart the xserver (alt/ctrl,bkspc) i get an error loading x. it takes me to a blue screen i try to edit using emacs but it never comes back...3 reinstalls later here i am again asking is there something i dont get?

did anyone else have this problem, and if i try to do this again and somehow screw it up again, what can i do to get back my gui w/o having to reformat???

Debate
by Phil on Wed 9th Oct 2002 23:13 UTC

"my focusing on it is not an attempt to pour gasoline on the Red Hat & GNOME vs KDE debates."

I think flaming is lame, but I DO have a gripe! I hear more comments like the one above about KDE v GNOME debates then ACTUAL debates. If everyone stopped making references to these (comparitively) barely existant debates and got on with using/improving/promoting their preferred Desktop it would be so much more productive. I don't drive the same model car as my best mate but we don't argue about which one is best either, why? Because it is a waste of time, life's too short, both cars do the job, each has it's strengths and weaknesses and we both like the models we chose. End of story.

Otherwise I enjoyed the article, thank you.

Upgrade takes 3x longer
by Kian on Thu 10th Oct 2002 01:10 UTC

I tried upgrading from RH7.2 and it took over 1.5 hours on Pentium III. Also some icons got mangled and it messes up the bootloader. Next time I'll do a fresh install always.

Also I learned to customise disk partitioning as the default formats my entire 40G disk which wipes out my Mandrake 8.2 (which was a charm). Choosing what size for root and other /dev may not be easy for a newbie.

Has anyone figured how to turn on the sound on login?
It detected my Ensoniq and plays on "test sound" but Im basically soundless on startup. (Ive enabled sound server with the Control Center).

Greatly appreciate any tips.

BTW good article.
Kian

how do i reverse this?
by mahi on Thu 10th Oct 2002 14:01 UTC

how do i reverse this it keeps saying "kernel driver not loded: though they are both present...(when i do the final check stuff)...sorry i cant be more detailed but i am a linux n00b..

your fonts suggestion has worked wonders, i'll try the other stuff later (ive got RH 8 installed as dual boot with XP on my laptop and gaming machine), i really appreciate your well written article i must say i wish i had found it earlier, it is truly excellent and I appreciate your obvious effort in writing it. The clarity and accuracy of your suggestions deserves a very big THANK YOU. marks out of ten > 20.

cheers

anyweb
http://anyweb.kicks-ass.net

Great Article
by Robert K. Vaughan on Fri 11th Oct 2002 18:49 UTC

Fantastic article Rob. I am a longtime Red Hat and KDE user and STILL managed to learn a few things. Having used Debian (gasp!) before I was glad to see someone pointing out APT for the RH crowd.....and Synaptic is a real pleasure to work with. Gotta disagree with you on GDM tho.....some of us prefer the simplistic pleasures of KDM! But CHOICE is what it is all about, right? ;-)

I must admit that at first I was somewhat uneasy with some of the changes made by RH, but to be truely honest (and as you point out so well), these changes are very minor. The font rendering in RH8 ALONE is worth it for me. Now if someone could just port the rendering to the Sharp ZAURUS, I'd be a happy man (with much less eyestrain)!

Nvidia driver install....
by tom on Mon 14th Oct 2002 12:57 UTC

Excellent article.

Sorry if I missed something or am repeating a previous reply (i've read most, if not all....) but if a new or low time linux user has selected say a Personal Desktop type install for Redhat 8, chances are they never selected any of the development tools for installation. They may not be aware that these are required to build from source as is the case with the Nvidia drivers. I wasn't....... ;-)

Here's to more articles of this quality!!!

thanks

tom

not many e-journalists out there like rob
by deepeyes on Mon 14th Oct 2002 16:18 UTC

It's expected a guy like rob to write great reviews, since he is the main man behind slashdot and it's success. ;)

the nvidia driver doesnt work
by anyweb on Mon 14th Oct 2002 21:47 UTC

i downloaded the nvidia driver and as soon i as try to rpm it (ivh) i get a BAD md5 checksum for the GLX src portion

anybody seeing the same ??

of course i downloaded it again on different puters and with the same results...

cheers

anyweb

Thanks Rob for the fantastic article - you have a real gift there dude! Go for it!

I have a couple of questions - the first of which I was reminded about when you mentioned that TuxRacer game. I find that it plays with what looks like an amazingly slow frame rate - like 1fps or even slower which kinda makes it unplayable. Do you have any ideas why that might be? Would loading the nVidia reference drivers fix that?

Also, I - like you - enjoy watching DVD movies. However, I utilise the TV-Out function on my Geforce 2 MX200 to watch them in full-screen on the television. Have you ever tried to get that functionality going under linux? If yes, could you provide some pointers please?

Thanks in advance!

Regards
wmg

Nvidia drivers
by Philip on Thu 17th Oct 2002 05:32 UTC

Hi all i'm new to the world of linux, i just installed rh 8.0 and i downloaded the glx src and kernel src

everything goes fine untill the rpmbuild -bb command

the glx rpm compiles ok but when it comes to the kernel is says this

install: cannot stat `NVdriver': No such file or directory
error: Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.43421 (%install)
so it doesn't make a kernel rpm

can anyone help me?

p.s: does having an amd processor have anything to do with it not compiling it properly