Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 9th Jan 2008 13:53 UTC
Hardware, Embedded Systems Geeks.com was so kind as to send me the Vizio VX32L for review, a 32" widescreen LCD TV capable of doing 1080i. At USD 469.99, this 32" LCD television is quite affordable, so read on to find out if it is worth your money.
Order by: Score:
1080i?
by zdzichu on Wed 9th Jan 2008 14:33 UTC
zdzichu
Member since:
2006-11-07

Native resolution 1366 x 768

How this is supposed to display picture with 1080 lines?

Reply Score: 2

RE: 1080i?
by PipoDeClown on Wed 9th Jan 2008 17:00 UTC in reply to "1080i?"
PipoDeClown Member since:
2005-07-19

thats easy... vertical!

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: 1080i?
by Schmeggma on Wed 9th Jan 2008 18:36 UTC in reply to "RE: 1080i?"
Schmeggma Member since:
2006-01-14

1080i is interlaced, so TVs with 768 lines just have a combined deinterlacer that scales the image at the same time.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: 1080i?
by bryanv on Wed 9th Jan 2008 18:58 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: 1080i?"
bryanv Member since:
2005-08-26

Which is a load of shit, as you're losing data and not actually getting the full 1080 picture.

IMO this should be considered false advertising.

It supports the format, but it sure won't display it -as-intended- by the format.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: 1080i?
by anevilyak on Wed 9th Jan 2008 20:15 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: 1080i?"
anevilyak Member since:
2005-09-14

Which is a load of shit, as you're losing data and not actually getting the full 1080 picture.

IMO this should be considered false advertising.

It supports the format, but it sure won't display it -as-intended- by the format.


Well, on the other hand, they do have to be able to support that signal format, because, at least here in AL, USA some of the high-def OTA channels I get are broadcast in 1080i only. So either the TV supports and downscales it, or no broadcast for you. I'm on the fence if this is entirely misleading or not, though it should probably at least have a footnote indicating that 1080i gets downscaled to 720.

Reply Score: 4

RE: 1080i?
by Eugenia on Wed 9th Jan 2008 20:31 UTC in reply to "1080i?"
Eugenia Member since:
2005-06-28

ALL LCD 1080i TVs have that 1366x768 resolution. All of them. So if you have a problem with it, go knock the door of the HDTV standard and tell them to not allow manufacturers to call it HDTV 1080i. I have even blogged about it months ago:
http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/07/27/explain-this-to-me-please/
but there's nothing you can do about it. It's the way it is with LCDs.

Edited 2008-01-09 20:46 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: 1080i?
by PunchCardGuy on Wed 9th Jan 2008 21:02 UTC in reply to "RE: 1080i?"
PunchCardGuy Member since:
2006-04-14

Say Again???

At the big consumer electronics stores in Germany like Media Markt, etc. there are always a large number of LCD TVs on display. Those that support a resolution of 1366x768 are labelled "HD Ready" and are fairly cheap in price. Then, there are those that provide a resolution of 1920x1080 and are labelled "Full HD - i.e. full 1080i support" (and are a lot more expensive). Usually, the stores are running an HD recording through those TVs. The difference between the images on the "HD Ready" and "Full HD" TVs are like day and night.

How does that figure?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: 1080i?
by Eugenia on Wed 9th Jan 2008 21:11 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: 1080i?"
Eugenia Member since:
2005-06-28

We are talking about 1080i TVs here, not 1080p. 1080p TVs are 1920x1080 but they are expensive. The BULK of LCD sales today are 1080i. And for these TVs, it IS 1366x768, and they ARE called HDTVs. I don't know how you call them in Germany, but over here they are called HDTVs.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: 1080i?
by Schmeggma on Wed 9th Jan 2008 21:43 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: 1080i?"
Schmeggma Member since:
2006-01-14

UK shops seem to be similar to Germany, with HD Ready and Full HD labels to differentiate the two types of HDTV

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: 1080i?
by PunchCardGuy on Wed 9th Jan 2008 21:43 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: 1080i?"
PunchCardGuy Member since:
2006-04-14

Oh - I just rechecked my info - my bad. I was thinking about 1080p, which are what are called "Full HD" HDTVs over here. "HD Ready" HDTVs here are 1080i and downscale HD to 1080i on 1366x768. I am still holding out for 1080p, though - the image on these is so much better.

Edited 2008-01-09 21:44 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: 1080i?
by bousozoku on Thu 10th Jan 2008 02:45 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: 1080i?"
bousozoku Member since:
2006-01-23

Say Again???

At the big consumer electronics stores in Germany like Media Markt, etc. there are always a large number of LCD TVs on display. Those that support a resolution of 1366x768 are labelled "HD Ready" and are fairly cheap in price. Then, there are those that provide a resolution of 1920x1080 and are labelled "Full HD - i.e. full 1080i support" (and are a lot more expensive). Usually, the stores are running an HD recording through those TVs. The difference between the images on the "HD Ready" and "Full HD" TVs are like day and night.

How does that figure?


HD Ready in the U.S.A. was given to televisions that didn't have the HD (ATSC in the U.S.A.) tuner but were capable of accepting 1080i input. Many of those were also noted as HD Monitors.

The nomenclature has changed because those 1366x768 t.v. sets now are required to have the ATSC tuners and are labeled HDTV.

Reply Score: 1

Not bad
by bsharitt on Wed 9th Jan 2008 15:06 UTC
bsharitt
Member since:
2005-07-07

I've had one of these for a few months. Comparing the various TVs in the stores(especially the ones right next to it at circuit city), the Vizio came out ahead of the the other cheap brands. Of couse the Samsungs and Sonys looks great, but were asking a lot more. I was actually surprised at the quality of the upscalar, which is where I've found that most cheap TV skimp, since nearly every LCD TV in the store made a great HD monitor with a good HD source(except for one really cheap generic set). Since I don't have HD cable(HD comes from the media center PC or an upscaling DVD player, or game consoles), a lot of our conetent would be upscaled SD, so one thing I looked at was all those nice HD TVs with regular SD content. Again, the Samsungs, LGs, and Sony's look spectacular, but most of the cheap TVs choked. Aside from the Vizio and one other that I can't remember the brand, they all sharpened the defects to the point that they looked worse than on the similarly sized CRT SD TVs. The last thing that won over the Vizio for me over the other TV with similar price and picture quality was the number of inputs.

Reply Score: 1

Milo_Hoffman
Member since:
2005-07-06

When I did my research, these Visio GV line of TV's have the best signal processing of any TV outside of a 400% more Sony Bravia.

I tested normal DVD, vs using a name brand DVD-upscaling player and this TV's own processing was just as good as the upscaling player.

The one thing that kept ME away from LCD/Plasma for so long was the fact that SD content looked like ass on most of them.

But, this Visio handles SD content VERY VERY well and is at least as good as my old tube tv.

Reply Score: 2

v Confused
by pacmania1982 on Wed 9th Jan 2008 16:55 UTC
RE: Confused
by joshv on Wed 9th Jan 2008 17:11 UTC in reply to "Confused"
joshv Member since:
2006-03-18

Yeah, how about reviewing this as a computer monitor? I am very seriously thinking about using a TV as my next monitor, and Vizio is high on my list. With an antenna it will double as TV in the den as well.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Confused
by desNotes on Wed 9th Jan 2008 18:13 UTC in reply to "RE: Confused"
desNotes Member since:
2006-05-26

I agree that it would be worthwhile to find out how this particular HDTV (and others) perform as a monitor. I have various PCs (Linux, Windows & a new MacBook Pro) and a large monitor would be great.

PS Otherwise great review Thom

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Confused
by Schmeggma on Wed 9th Jan 2008 21:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Confused"
Schmeggma Member since:
2006-01-14

I'm also considering this, but it just seems to me that for sizes over 24", anything less than 1920x1080 is going to start looking very chunky

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Confused
by joshv on Thu 10th Jan 2008 13:59 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Confused"
joshv Member since:
2006-03-18

Yeah, I think you are right, you'd need at least 1920x1080 for that large of a monitor. Perhaps I will have to wait a few years. There's always Apple's Cinema display.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Confused
by Punktyras on Wed 9th Jan 2008 17:26 UTC in reply to "Confused"
Punktyras Member since:
2006-01-07

OSNEWS - NOT JUST operating systems news.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by imstillatwork
by imstillatwork on Wed 9th Jan 2008 19:51 UTC
imstillatwork
Member since:
2007-03-22

Yes it is lame, but standard. TVs are often sold by their accepted INPUT SIGNALs rather than SCREEN RESOLUTION.

The screen is only good for 720p. ANYTHING that does not come in as 720p is scaled (up or down)

A 720p signal on a 720p tv will look crisper and sharper then a 720p signal on a 1080p (general statement, not counting overscan, pixel mapping, etc...)

Hey OSNews is now like Gizmodo, but with more computer stuff. cool ;)

BTW: I grabbed a Sony 40V2500 1080p set yesterday. Very nice on the ps3 and PC ;)

Reply Score: 3

Feng Sui?
by tyrione on Thu 10th Jan 2008 02:30 UTC
tyrione
Member since:
2005-11-21

Nice to see they buy an HDTV and throw it in the corner of their living space. Clearly optimal for all to view!

Reply Score: 2

SCART
by gfx1 on Thu 10th Jan 2008 10:22 UTC
gfx1
Member since:
2006-01-20

SCART plugs can carry three types of signal (from bad to good) composite, s-video or RGB (four if you include the stereo audio) Most CRT TV with SCART connectors accept RGB on the first input, this gives a very nice quality picture (you can read a computer desktop) and a lot of DVD players, digital sat receivers can be set in the menu to output RGB instead of s-video.

Problem remains that some tv's include only one SCART RGB input and that most computer graphic cards need some tweaking (powerstrip) and a homebrew vga to scart cable to output proper RGB signals.

Some tv's or devices have component video inputs/outputs a red/green/blue connector which is not the same signal as scart with RGB which uses four wires Red, Green Blue and a composite sync instead of Y Pb and Pr

Edited 2008-01-10 10:35 UTC

Reply Score: 1

AdamW
Member since:
2005-07-06

"HD Ready" and "Full HD" do not (or should not) differentiate between 1366x768 and 1920x1080 panels. They're not even, exactly, alternatives.

"HD Ready" is intended to notify the potential customer that the TV does not contain an HD tuner: i.e., to get an HD picture out of it, you're going to require some other piece of equipment (an HDTV cable box, satellite box, OTA receiver, whatever). You can only sell it as simply an "HDTV" if it can actually receive and display an HDTV (i.e. 720p, 1080i, or higher) signal with no external assistance.

"Full HD" differentiates 1080p from the lower HDTV standards (720p and 1080i). IIRC it was originally one manufacturer's bright idea, but now they all do it. The problem was that simply selling a TV as "1080p" doesn't sound very exciting. Calling it "Full HD" sounds far better, and makes you feel like you're getting something you don't get with a 'lower end' model.

If a TV is 1080p but doesn't have an internal HD tuner, they can call it "Full HD", but I believe it still has to be described as "HD ready" somewhere by the store / manufacturer, otherwise you could probably complain about the inaccurate advertising.

A 1080p panel in a 32" TV is usually a waste. People saying that anything lower than 1080p would be blocky are not taking viewing distances into consideration. That's true of a PC monitor, which you sit about a foot away from. It's not usually true of a TV, which you usually sit much further away from. You can find tons of references if you Google "viewing distances" "HDTV" "1080p" or something like that, but what it boils down to is that if you sit around 6 feet or more away from a 32" TV, 1080p capability is basically pointless. Your eyes are not capable of discerning a difference between 720p and 1080p at that distance.

I have a 42" TV and a viewing distance of around 5.5 feet, so I'm getting some (but not full) benefit from the 1080p resolution of my TV. But if I had bought a 32" TV, I'd've got a 720p panel.

Reply Score: 3

imstillatwork Member since:
2007-03-22

Your eyes are not capable of discerning a difference between 720p and 1080p at that distance.


Plug in a PC and think again. BIG difference, even at 6-8 feet. Now factor in 1:1 pixel mapping on a 1080p set and there is an enormous difference. Crystal clear. (excep maybe on a vizio or olevia, etc... ;) )

There is nothing magical at all about LCD tv's...Just like a laptop, you can set many source resolutions, but the OUTPUT resolution is always the same, and a source that is the same resolution as the display (native resolution) will ALWAYS look the best.

Reply Score: 1

AdamW Member since:
2005-07-06

I already do. I have both 1080p and 1080i sources for my TV. I can see a difference, but not a big one.

Ditto for 720p; I have a couple of TV series for which I have both 1280x720 and 1920x1080 videos available. I can see a difference, but not a large one, from my regular viewing distance.

Reply Score: 2

720p is fine when it comes to HD
by Best on Sat 12th Jan 2008 01:37 UTC
Best
Member since:
2005-07-09

For 720p (1280x720) a 1366x768 screen is just fine. Since most broadcast HDTV here in the US is either 1080i or 720p. Hardly anyone broadcasts 1080p since they can fit two 1080i or 720p stations into the same bandwidth. So for actually watching TV a 1366x768 set is fine, and most game consoles do better at 720p than 1080p anyway. I've been pretty happy with my 32" vizio for gaming, my Wii (480p only admitedly) looks great on it, and the 360 of course looks awesome.

However, for a computer monitor 1366x768 is kind of small, and 32" is kind of large. If you want to go the HDTV as computer monitor route, its probably better to save up and get a 1080p set. I did use mine comfortably as a computer monitor for a few months though, so it is possible if you're feeling poor. Also, the resolution is odd so it can take a little fiddling to get working. I had to browse the nvidia driver documentation to get it working in linux.

If your primary purpose in buying a TV is to watch hd movies, I suppose 1080p is a better option since both formats support it and thats what the movies are encoded for. However, if you're going to be doing that, you're probably going to want larger than 32", and you're also probably going to be spending significantly more than $500 for a TV anyway.

Reply Score: 1

names
by justin.68 on Sun 13th Jan 2008 11:23 UTC
justin.68
Member since:
2006-09-16

Well, I don't know whether it will ever be sold in Italy or Switzerland, but some people really ought to be careful choosing names for products. Some Italian speakers may think there's something pornographic about it (vizio=vice, perversion) or that there's something broken in it (vizio=defect, fault, flaw). Well, I had to say it, because it had me in stitches.

Reply Score: 1