Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 11th Jan 2008 12:00 UTC
KDE KDE 4.0.0 has been released onto the world. "The KDE Community is thrilled to announce the immediate availability of KDE 4.0. This significant release marks both the end of the long and intensive development cycle leading up to KDE 4.0 and the beginning of the KDE 4 era." KDE 4.0 is the first release of "KDE 4", but take note that the developers have clearly stated that KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4, but more of a base release with all the underlying systems ready to go, but with still a lot of work to be done on the user-visible side. Download it from the KDE 4.0 info page. Update: Screenshots.
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Oh, oh!
by shiny on Fri 11th Jan 2008 12:09 UTC
shiny
Member since:
2005-08-09

Man, this is exciting! I don't have any more words to say...

Reply Score: 6

One word
by korpenkraxar on Fri 11th Jan 2008 12:13 UTC
korpenkraxar
Member since:
2005-09-10

WohooatlastthatsfreakingreatthanxalldudesandgalsintheKDE4team!!!

Reply Score: 10

Comment by Shade
by Shade on Fri 11th Jan 2008 12:18 UTC
Shade
Member since:
2005-07-07

I'd like to send a big thanks to the whole KDE team! I'm typing this from Konqueror on KDE 4. Good show! And for those who are really faint of heart the big 3rd party apps that haven't been ported yet (Kaffeine, K3b, and Amarok) and KDE 3's kdePIM (Kmail) are working fine alongside KDE 4. So, let's all start nagging about 'all the bugs they missed' :p

Cheers! Enjoy the release party!

_Shade (A happy KDE user since the pre-KDE 1ish days.)

Reply Score: 10

Unfortunate
by JMcCarthy on Fri 11th Jan 2008 12:24 UTC
JMcCarthy
Member since:
2005-08-12

No matter what the developers intended this to be, there will be detractors who are only concerned with what they wanted it to be, that their vision (and there are thousands) wasn't met. Here's hoping the developers aren't easily discouraged and go on to turn it into a great series, I think you already have to be a pretty thick hide to develop free-software.

Reply Score: 6

RE: Unfortunate
by Shade on Fri 11th Jan 2008 12:42 UTC in reply to "Unfortunate "
Shade Member since:
2005-07-07

No matter what the developers intended this to be, there will be detractors who are only concerned with what they wanted it to be, that their vision (and there are thousands) wasn't met. Here's hoping the developers aren't easily discouraged and go on to turn it into a great series, I think you already have to be a pretty thick hide to develop free-software.

Meh. There's always detractors. I remember KDE 2.0.0, and GNOME 2.0.0... Any big release with lot's of zeros is the same. The apps that shipped are quite good-- and the foundations for a bright future are there. The 3rd party apps are on their way, kdePIM is on the way, Plasma is 'hyper active', and 4.1 is on the way. Given the feeling in the pit of my stomach with RC 1, KDE 4.0.0 is great. I think the the potential of KDE 4 will begin to manifest in in far more dramatic ways throughout the whole KDE ecosystem by the time KDE 4.1 ships.

They could have sat on it for another 6 months without the situation in the broader KDE ecosystem being much better... And a release bring new eyes, voices, and hands...

Reply Score: 9

v RE: Unfortunate
by sbergman27 on Fri 11th Jan 2008 19:53 UTC in reply to "Unfortunate "
RE[2]: Unfortunate
by nutshell42 on Sat 12th Jan 2008 00:08 UTC in reply to "RE: Unfortunate "
nutshell42 Member since:
2006-01-12

I doubt you'll find many posts that heralded KDE *4.0* as the second coming. Instead people were almost certainly talking about KDE4 if only for the fact that it's shorter to type.

Nevertheless this is not splitting hairs. Anyone who went through the KDE 1->2 rewrite or Gnome 1->2 or OSX, or most incarnations of Windows should know that there's a big difference between the first release and the possibilities the new architecture opens up in the future.

In fact as the vast majority of KDE4 articles up to about 3 months ago talked about the architecture instead of the apps even you could have realized that noone promised world peace and cookies for the 4.0 launch party. =P

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Unfortunate
by sbergman27 on Sat 12th Jan 2008 07:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Unfortunate "
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

I doubt you'll find many posts that heralded KDE *4.0* as the second coming. Instead people were almost certainly talking about KDE4


One need not look any further than the comments under this story about KDE 4.0.0. Just scanning the first 8 comments I can't help but notice these:

http://www.osnews.com/permalink?295321

http://www.osnews.com/permalink?295331

It's amusing, however, to see others now backpedaling on the claims. KDE4 is just another major restructuring of a popular DE. No more and no less. The claims are now migrating from 4.0, which people are beginning to realize is not really a walk-on-water release... to 4.1. I expect to be equally unimpressed then.

I'll take compatibility with popular real world file formats, codecs, and web sites (many of the sites my customers need in in their business are still IE only) over desktop pizazz any day. The "miracles" which the KDE devs have performed have little to no relevance to my users.

Reply Score: 0

RE[4]: Unfortunate
by segedunum on Sat 12th Jan 2008 08:50 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Unfortunate "
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

One need not look any further than the comments under this story about KDE 4.0.0. Just scanning the first 8 comments I can't help but notice these

Comments on OSNews != developers, but people still feel that something significant is happening regardless. Go figure.

The claims are now migrating from 4.0, which people are beginning to realize is not really a walk-on-water release... to 4.1. I expect to be equally unimpressed then.

You can smell the palpable fear in the air..... ;-) The opposite of love is indifference. Go read up on how open source projects are developed as well, because this has been explained umpteen times. What are you going say when .5 or .6 is released, because this isn't really going to be all that far away?

I'll take compatibility with popular real world file formats, codecs, and web sites (many of the sites my customers need in in their business are still IE only) over desktop pizazz any day.

You might want to ask how those 'real world' file formats, codecs and IE-only web sites got there in the first place. If that's all that's propping up the software that you're using then, well, I would be worried.

The "miracles" which the KDE devs have performed have little to no relevance to my users.

It's not worth getting heated about then, is it? Reverse psychology ;-).

Go away then, because certainly between five and ten years from now, and quite probably less, if you're not using KDE on your Linux/Unix systems then you're going to be way behind.

Edited 2008-01-12 08:50 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE[5]: Unfortunate
by lemur2 on Sat 12th Jan 2008 11:18 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Unfortunate "
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

You can smell the palpable fear in the air..... ;-) The opposite of love is indifference. Go read up on how open source projects are developed as well, because this has been explained umpteen times. What are you going say when .5 or .6 is released, because this isn't really going to be all that far away?


Well, KDE 4.0.0 isn't going to "scare" anybody. It isn't really usable as a desktop yet. However, you do point out the development cycle of open source projects, so I presume you are aware that KDE 4.0.0 is not recommended for use in a "production environment". It is more like a "prototype model" new car ... you can drive it but don't think of using it on a public roadway just yet. Lets get the kinks out, first.

You might want to ask how those 'real world' file formats, codecs and IE-only web sites got there in the first place. If that's all that's propping up the software that you're using then, well, I would be worried.


This is interesting, too. The BBC is getting into trouble over its iPlayer foray into offering up to the public formats that are usable on only one platform:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7047381.stm

The latest on this front is that
"Yesterday, BBC Director General Mark Thompson and other BBC representatives appeared in front of the House of Commons Public Accounts Committee. During the meeting, Dr John Pugh MP tackled him about the iPlayer."


"“The more fundamental issue is [iPlayer’s] failure to apply open standards and be sufficiently interoperable to work fully (stream and download) on more than one platform. The BBC is funded by licence players not all of whom have or chose to use a computer running Windows XP or Vista. By guaranteeing full functionality to the products of one software vendor it is as a public body handing a commercial advantage to that company - effectively illegal state aid!”


Read about it here:
http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2008/01/10/bbc-director-general-gril...

... and more along the same lines here:
http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2007/10/11/uk-government-accused-of-...

Directors being accused of providing "illegal state aid" when they implement something that is "Windows only" and not "cross-platform".

Interesting. If only this type of thing were to happen in America.

Anyway, there is some promise in pursuing such a theme ... certainly insofar as government departments are concerned. It may be possible (at least within sane countries, probably not in America) to force such an issue to the point where no government department can even consider using anything "Windows only" any more.

Reply Score: 3

v RE[5]: Unfortunate
by Hiev on Sat 12th Jan 2008 19:01 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Unfortunate "
Congrats!
by qroon on Fri 11th Jan 2008 12:26 UTC
qroon
Member since:
2005-10-21

I'm a GNOME user myself but I will definitely try this KDE release ;)

Reply Score: 9

RE: Congrats!
by CaptainPinko on Fri 11th Jan 2008 18:44 UTC in reply to "Congrats!"
CaptainPinko Member since:
2005-07-21

Please remember to try 4.1 since this is the solid foundation of KDE4 not the whole house yet. ;)

Reply Score: 6

Damn !!! Whoa !
by lord_rob on Fri 11th Jan 2008 12:28 UTC
lord_rob
Member since:
2005-08-06

Yeah I'm at work, waiting for my colleague to continue my work. During this short pause, a quick jump on OSNews reveals this.

Boy ! Amazing ! Congratulations KDE team :-)

Reply Score: 4

Congrats
by JPisini on Fri 11th Jan 2008 12:42 UTC
JPisini
Member since:
2006-01-24

This is great. I look forward to seeing distros incorporate it into their releases.

Reply Score: 1

I for one...
by n0xx on Fri 11th Jan 2008 12:44 UTC
n0xx
Member since:
2005-07-12

Welcome our new desktop overlord. This is the day vista died.

Reply Score: 7

RE: I for one...
by Coxy on Fri 11th Jan 2008 13:16 UTC in reply to "I for one..."
Coxy Member since:
2006-07-01

Yeah, in your 'Year of Linux' dreams.

Edited 2008-01-11 13:16 UTC

Reply Score: 19

v still ugly
by Duffman on Fri 11th Jan 2008 12:45 UTC
RE: still ugly
by merkoth on Fri 11th Jan 2008 13:25 UTC in reply to "still ugly"
merkoth Member since:
2006-09-22

I know I shouldn't feed the troll, but "uglyness" aside (something absolutely subjetive): please point me to the smiliarities between KDE 4.0 and WinXP. I'm currently at work looking at my XP desktop trying to figure out what the hell went so wrong with your eyes. Please, enlighten me.

Anyway, kongrats to all KDE developers, I'm going to give it a spin ASAP, I'm really excited about KDE4 ;)

Edit: typo

Edited 2008-01-11 13:29 UTC

Reply Score: 12

RE[2]: still ugly
by sbergman27 on Fri 11th Jan 2008 23:42 UTC in reply to "RE: still ugly"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Although I don't really care for the looks, "ugly" is not the word that I would use.

More screenshots here:

http://tinyurl.com/2qd6tn

Note the music player, home folder display, and new stylized Konqi center screen.

Edited 2008-01-11 23:50 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: still ugly
by segedunum on Sat 12th Jan 2008 08:52 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: still ugly"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

Although I don't really care for the looks, "ugly" is not the word that I would use.

More screenshots here:

http://tinyurl.com/2qd6tn


:-). There's an awful lot of scared people around for some reason.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: still ugly
by sbergman27 on Sat 12th Jan 2008 09:22 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: still ugly"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

There's an awful lot of scared people around for some reason.


Actually, I think you are taking my comments too negatively. There seem to be a lot of defensive KDE fans around for some reason. ;-)

Responding to your last 2 posts, of course KDE devs and KDE fans are two different things. And of course only some of the fans make claims out of proportion to reality, like "This is the day Vista died", above. The fact is that some of them *do* have a bit of cajoling coming to them and I intend to do my part to see that they get it... in a good natured way, of course.

As to who is ahead and who is behind... it depends on one's perspective. *If* KDE4 turns out to be less of a usability nightmare than KDE3, then I would say that KDE4 is taking steps to catch up with Gnome in that area, which happens to be important to me since I support 60-70 mostly nontechnical users.

As far as technical infrastructure goes, a lot of people feel that KDE4 is ahead and I don't disagree.

As far as being scared... why would I be? I'm not married to Gnome. I just think it's a better desktop for my users today. "Worst" case would be that another DE became a better choice for them and I ended up gradually migrating them to it. It wouldn't be the first time. And I get paid by the hour. ;-) Some of these users have been with me long enough that they would remember using their KDE 1 and 2 desktops... before Gnome pulled ahead of them in the things that matter in that environment. And I certainly remember being quite pleased with my own pre-1.0 KDE desktop. Then agains, coming from AnotherLevel (remember that?) how could I *not* have been pleased?

BTW, as I write this you have posted 7 times (and counting) in this thread "defending" KDE from the slightest criticisms. Not exactly a sign of confidence. ;-)

Edited 2008-01-12 09:30 UTC

Reply Score: 6

RE[5]: still ugly
by RandomGuy on Sat 12th Jan 2008 16:31 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: still ugly"
RandomGuy Member since:
2006-07-30

*If* KDE4 turns out to be less of a usability nightmare than KDE3

If been hearing that sentiment a lot lately and quite frankly I don't get what's wrong with KDE3. Talking about more or less computer illiterate people, sure they might go all Rainman when they experience the in-your-face-ness and multiple options of KDE.

But do _you_ use Gnome just to know it better in order to help your customers or do you really like it better? If so, what are the reasons?

I mean, in _my_ experience KDE has been reasonably fast, stable and very customizable. Mind you, this is not about "I'm so freakin' awesome and can handle billions of options at a time" machismo, it's more about "I want a right click option to watch, copy or rip DVDs" style laziness.

Ok, I think it's arguable which looks better. Gnome looks as dull as rock which some might argue is an advantage. A lot depends on specific setting/themes, especially for KDE. I get depressed when I use Gnome for too long but hey, that's just me ;)

I think the importance of DEs is often exaggerated.
I mean, most of the time is spent inside the apps anyway. What makes or breaks a DE are its frameworks for developing apps because after all, apps and their functionality are what users, as opposed to reviewers or GUI designers, care about.

Anyway, it was nice to read a balanced post as opposed to the usual "Teh ugly!!!11" 'criticism' ;)

Reply Score: 4

RE[6]: still ugly
by sbergman27 on Sat 12th Jan 2008 17:49 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: still ugly"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

But do _you_ use Gnome just to know it better in order to help your customers or do you really like it better?


That is a very good question. And one that is hard to answer accurately and honestly. I do use Gnome, to a great extent, because it is what I have chosen for my users and I owe it to them to use it myself. (And I'm pretty confident that I made the right choice on that.) *And* I, personally, like it better than KDE. Then again, I've used Gnome for years, and we tend to like what we are used to. And I suppose that is especially true for us 40-somethings and up. ;-)

However, I do try out KDE from time to time, usually during periods of especially intense KDE hype, and it never lasts long on my desktop. I just end up disliking it.

That said, and going back to the "we like what we are used to" theme, I'll describe my DE history. Back in the stone age I used fvwm95 and Anotherlevel. KDE's pre-1.0 releases just blew me away. I still think that KDE 1.0 was a *very* sharp looking and acting desktop for its time. (That DEC charcoal and deep turquoise theme was kick-ass, and excessive gaudiness and menu option proliferation had not yet become a problem; They had not had enough development time for featuritis or second system syndrome to set in.

I continued to use KDE through 2.x. I even switched from RedHat to Mandrake because of better KDE support and the fact that they cared about the desktop more than RedHat did at the time. Back then, I honestly felt that Keramik was absolutely the best looking desktop theme I had *ever* seen. (Ha! Ha!)

When RH8.0 came out and it became apparent that RH was ready to take the desktop more seiously, I switched back to RH and the default Gnome with Bluecurve. But it seemed awfully plain to me at first, and I remember posting somewhere that "the designers of Bluecurve were almost certainly legally blind"!

How things change! I got to like it. In fact, I still have a lot of desktops on CentOS 4.5 which use Bluecurve and I still like it. It's so solid, usable, and business-like. (I prefer clearlooks, but not by all *that* much.)

In the mean time, KDE seemed to get more and more cartoonish looking and cluttered. (I posted a little joke of a post with "screenshots of KDE" that really pointed to some photos at playskool.com earlier under this story, and you have to admit there is a resemblance! ;-)

Anyways, while I can answer your question honestly... accuracy is really the problem, because these things are so subjective, and vary not only from person to person, but also with respect to the *same* person at different points in time. Which is why I find it amusing that another OS News reader has implied that I am "afraid" of KDE4 being successful. :-)

Edited 2008-01-12 18:00 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE[7]: still ugly
by RandomGuy on Sat 12th Jan 2008 21:11 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: still ugly"
RandomGuy Member since:
2006-07-30

Back then, I honestly felt that Keramik was absolutely the best looking desktop theme I had *ever* seen. (Ha! Ha!)

Bullseye! Will everyone PLEASE stop dissing my widget style? ;-)

I posted a little joke of a post with "screenshots of KDE" that really pointed to some photos at playskool.com earlier under this story, and you have to admit there is a resemblance!

Nah, KDE (3.5) uses more blue and less ..., well, let's just say it uses lots of blueish colors. But I got the drift... ;-)

Which is why I find it amusing that another OS News reader has implied that I am "afraid" of KDE4 being successful.

Yeah, it's sort of funny, isn't it?
An awful lot of us are still trapped in thinking that there has to be a winner and a bunch of losers. I know this sounds like talking to a child who lost some competition at a birthday party, saying "No, you're not a loser, you're the second winner".

Well it sounds like this because it is the same basic situation:
Some friends are competing - for a piece of candy or something.
They don't try to hurt each other and everybody knows there are gonna be tons of candy later on, even if you lost.

friends: FOSS projects, candy: market share (Well, duh!)

There, I did it! A tech analogy not involving cars!
I ought to get some sort of Nobel Prize!

Seriously though, even if Gnome/KDE won this 'battle', capturing some 90% of desktop Linux' marketshare, the worst that could happen are some people complaining:
"Hey, where's my Fisherprice?!?" or
"Hey, where's my corporate desktop that makes little children cry?!?"
With the right theme any of the two options could be turned into a fisherpricey sort of corporate desktop that would at least make the youngest of infants weep a little bit...

We could still use the apps, we could still use some of the frameworks.
We'd probably miss the flamewars though ;-)

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: still ugly
by segedunum on Sat 12th Jan 2008 20:14 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: still ugly"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

Actually, I think you are taking my comments too negatively. There seem to be a lot of defensive KDE fans around for some reason. ;-)

Not really. There's an awful lot of people who want to bash home the message that KDE 4 is not ready, it never will be, it's ugly etc. If it doesn't affect you then it's not going to worry you.

And of course only some of the fans make claims out of proportion to reality, like "This is the day Vista died", above.

Wide of the mark, but in terms of desktops the Vista and Leopard level of functionality is what we have to aim for in the open source world.

As to who is ahead and who is behind...

I didn't mention that, did I? The only desktops that matter are Vista, XP and Leopard. If you are trying to compare Gnome and KDE here then I feel sorry for you.

*If* KDE4 turns out to be less of a usability nightmare than KDE3, then I would say that KDE4 is taking steps to catch up with Gnome in that area, which happens to be important to me since I support 60-70 mostly nontechnical users.

I can't say I'm really interested in Gnome, and haven't brought it up, because we're aiming really at the sorts of desktop effects and features that Vista and Leopard can achieve because they're ahead. Oh well.......

This argument gets trawled up time and again though. Your non-technical users are a myth and a corner case I'm afraid, since Gnome doesn't have half of the features of Vista or Leopard (or KDE for that matter). Those features are there for a reason and are used by people, and unless you can win those users you're nowhere. I also assume that you've made the choice for them to 'go Gnome'? ;-)

As far as being scared... why would I be? I'm not married to Gnome. I just think it's a better desktop for my users today.

Not really interested in Gnome. I'm interested in the desktops that are used by more people ;-).

before Gnome pulled ahead of them in the things that matter in that environment.

Alas, it's not an environment that most of the world lives in. Unless you can do what Vista and Leopard are doing, shouting 'simplicity' at people counts for zilch I'm afraid. The people behind Unix desktops painted themselves into various niches and pretended that's what the rest of the world wanted. Needless to say, the rest of the world went somewhere else.

BTW, as I write this you have posted 7 times (and counting) in this thread "defending" KDE from the slightest criticisms. Not exactly a sign of confidence. ;-)

I didn't feel the need to bring up Gnome sweetheart, because in terms of where everyone wants to get to in the freedesktop world (and where things need to get to if a critical mass is to be achieved), Gnome is pretty irrelevant. Sadly, lot of people still want to pretend that cutting features in the name of simplicity and shouting usability from the rooftops (whatever usability happens to mean to them - no, it doesn't mean having a HIG) is going to turn the tide. It isn't.

Reply Score: 6

RE: still ugly - thankfully one can customize it
by jabbotts on Fri 11th Jan 2008 14:03 UTC in reply to "still ugly"
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

Unlike XP's apearance, one can easily customize KDE to there indavidual preferences without glueing in a bunch of third party flakeware.

Go KDE Go.. (Mandriva, any chance of seeing this in 2008.1 or maybe a 2008.2?)

Reply Score: 3

Joe User Member since:
2005-06-29

There are actually plenty of themes for Windows XP. You can change it to silver, green, black, you can put gradients, etc... You find everything on the Internet. There are even guys who created a Vista skin for XP ;)

I personally like this Black Luna theme: http://www.istartedsomething.com/20061029/royale-noir/

Reply Score: 1

segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

There are actually plenty of themes for Windows XP. You can change it to silver, green, black, you can put gradients, etc... You find everything on the Internet.

Not unless you patch that uxtheme DLL, which is beyond the means of the vast majority of users.

Reply Score: 4

segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

I didn't have to. I just copied a file and a directory into C:\Windows\Resources\
That's all there is to do.

No there isn't. If you have signed Microsoft themes then that's fine. If you want to download various cool themes you've found on the internet, unless you have a customised uxtheme install, you're out of luck.

Reply Score: 3

KugelKurt Member since:
2005-07-06

I didn't have to. I just copied a file and a directory into C:\Windows\Resources\
That's all there is to do.

So you are using a cracked version of Windows with an already patched theme DLL?

Reply Score: 2

dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

Well in that case the XP you use is an illegal version - you got the install.cd via P2P right? ;)

EDIT: Of course, the 2 extra skins (Zune and Royal Noir) can be installed without extra work. But only because they are signed digitally by the Dark Lord.

Edited 2008-01-13 01:03 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: still ugly
by ronaldst on Fri 11th Jan 2008 17:22 UTC in reply to "still ugly"
ronaldst Member since:
2005-06-29

It doesn't look alive like XP. This one has pretty horrible colours and UI overall. Shows that there is still has a lot of work to be done on the surface. Probably more in common with OS/2 Warp 4 UI than XP.

The successor to Plastik might not have been fully implemented yet.

Reply Score: 0

RE: still ugly
by cypress on Fri 11th Jan 2008 20:09 UTC in reply to "still ugly"
cypress Member since:
2005-07-11

Totally agree

Reply Score: 3

New icons
by stodge on Fri 11th Jan 2008 12:55 UTC
stodge
Member since:
2005-09-08

I'm really glad 4.0 is out as the 3 series was long in the tooth and badly in need of a replacement. I just wish they'd use a new icon set. The set they have looks so plain and boring. Compare them to the ones in OSX.

Reply Score: 2

Congrats!
by GeneralZod on Fri 11th Jan 2008 13:00 UTC
GeneralZod
Member since:
2007-08-03

I've been following the development of KDE4.0.0 in microscopic detail for about a year now, and have seen from the mailing lists and the huge amount of SVN activity just how many tough technical choices and pure hard slog the devs have gone through, so even though finally kicking out the first of the KDE4 series must be its own reward, I'd like to say "Thanks and congrats!" to the KDE team!

As someone who was building from SVN every day since last January (when KDE4 running in a Xephyr window looked a little like this:

http://etotheipiplusone.com/kde4-svn-03-01-07.png

), I was worried that KDE4.0.0 would fall *massively* short of the expectations that people had, and set out on a quest to try and gently deflate these expectations so that they were more in line with what I was expecting (hell, I was claiming that KDE4.0.0 would Eat Your Children before it became fashionable! ;) ). While it's definitely still a quirky and incomplete release which I can't in good conscience recommend to absolutely everybody, I have to say that 4.0.0 has wildly exceeded my expectations and is nothing like the crashy, resource guzzling mess that I was expecting ;)

Incidentally, I still have an old build from my work on KDE4Daily, so I put a side-by-side comparison to show how much has changed. The screenshots are from ~8th November and 1am this morning, respectively:

http://etotheipiplusone.com/kde4daily/docs/734472-initial.png
http://etotheipiplusone.com/kde4daily/docs/758759-initial.png

Edited 2008-01-11 13:08 UTC

Reply Score: 13

RE: Congrats!
by Weeman on Fri 11th Jan 2008 14:21 UTC in reply to "Congrats!"
Weeman Member since:
2006-03-20


I sure hope their theming capabilities are quite extensive, because that looks hilariously bad in regards to graphical design.

Edited 2008-01-11 14:24 UTC

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: Congrats!
by fepede on Fri 11th Jan 2008 14:28 UTC in reply to "RE: Congrats!"
fepede Member since:
2005-11-14

I sure hope their theming capabilities are quite extensive, because that looks hilariously bad in regards to graphical design.


Well, I fully agree.

The worst thing in KDE has always been (and, given the screenshots, IS) how fonts are used.

Man, it's horrible!

Reply Score: 9

RE[3]: Congrats!
by Weeman on Fri 11th Jan 2008 15:40 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Congrats!"
Weeman Member since:
2006-03-20

The worst thing in KDE has always been (and, given the screenshots, IS) how fonts are used.

A propos fonts... I like the taskbar clock, the way it screams LOOK AT MEEEEYYY! in your face.

--edit: And if KDE insists on such mongohuge text runs, they better make sure that they use some better proportioned fonts with rounded edges. A la Calibri from Microsoft.

Edited 2008-01-11 15:42 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Congrats!
by superstoned on Sun 13th Jan 2008 10:21 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Congrats!"
superstoned Member since:
2005-07-07

First, the whole font thing really depends a lot on what you are used to. Mac users find Win fonts ugly, Win users find Mac fonts fuzzy.

Second, fonts are mostly a X.org thing, not a KDE thing.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Congrats!
by BigDaddy on Fri 11th Jan 2008 18:32 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Congrats!"
BigDaddy Member since:
2006-08-10

Do you mean how fonts are rendered or do you mean the default font choices?

I prefer KDE font rendering to GNOME or even Windows. Granted I am just a home user and not a professional, so maybe that has something to do with it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Congrats!
by segedunum on Sat 12th Jan 2008 08:58 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Congrats!"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

The worst thing in KDE has always been (and, given the screenshots, IS) how fonts are used.

You do realise, of course, that fontconfig is responsible for fonts and this is used by both KDE and Gnome?

Reply Score: 7

RE[2]: Congrats!
by WereCatf on Fri 11th Jan 2008 14:43 UTC in reply to "RE: Congrats!"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

I very much dislike the theme in those pictures (lots of sleek and clean surfaces, and then suddenly huge difference in contrast in totally illogical places) but I don't know if that's the default theme. Though, it's not that much of a problem as the theme can be changed, and distros will most likely also choose something other than the default theme.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Congrats!
by NxStY on Fri 11th Jan 2008 15:59 UTC in reply to "Congrats!"
NxStY Member since:
2005-11-12

http://etotheipiplusone.com/kde4daily/docs/758759-initial.png

That screenshot would probably look better if you turned on composite.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Congrats!
by BigDaddy on Fri 11th Jan 2008 18:29 UTC in reply to "Congrats!"
BigDaddy Member since:
2006-08-10

In your first screenshot: http://etotheipiplusone.com/kde4-svn-03-01-07.png

What are you using to display the system statistics? That is one thing I could not figure out how to do in the 3.5 series. (I'm pretty new). Is that something that is KDE4 specific? Can it also show a histograph of network activity?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Congrats!
by superstoned on Sat 12th Jan 2008 00:00 UTC in reply to "RE: Congrats!"
superstoned Member since:
2005-07-07

It's a much improved version of ksysguard, and yes, it can show pretty much any statistic about your system you want.

Reply Score: 3

Packages available in Debian Experimental
by lord_rob on Fri 11th Jan 2008 13:06 UTC
lord_rob
Member since:
2005-08-06

KDE 4.0.0 is already packaged for Debian Experimental.

http://packages.debian.org/experimental/kde/

Warning : keep in mind that these are only experimental packages, so be cautious before trying them !

Reply Score: 3

tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

Note: i386 for the 4.0 release so far. I'm sure amd64 will soon follow.

Reply Score: 2

m_abs Member since:
2005-07-06

Do you know how to do a parallel installation of kde 4.0 and kde 3.5 on debian, like it is possible under kubuntu?

When I try to install kde4.0, aptitude wants to remove k3b and most of kde3.5, which isn't what I want.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Malakim
by Malakim on Fri 11th Jan 2008 13:17 UTC
Malakim
Member since:
2007-04-03

Excellent! Can't wait to get home and install it. Congrats to the DEV team.

Reply Score: 2

Thanks!
by ebasconp on Fri 11th Jan 2008 13:26 UTC
ebasconp
Member since:
2006-05-09

Thanks KDE team for showing us that an open source project can be huge, with good design, nice, with great quality and exciting! ALL IN ONE!

Your work is really admirable guys!

Edited 2008-01-11 13:43 UTC

Reply Score: 5

Going to try
by WereCatf on Fri 11th Jan 2008 13:45 UTC
WereCatf
Member since:
2006-02-15

I have never liked KDE, all it's clutter et al.. But well, since everyone has been touting KDE 4.0 as being almost as huge thing as if Jesus was reborn again I will give it a try as soon as it lands on Gentoo repos. I expect it to not really impress me that much but who knows? Atleast then I know what everyone else talks about and I'll have some hands-on experience. We'll see in a week or two if I like it or not.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Going to try
by Colonel Panic on Fri 11th Jan 2008 16:18 UTC in reply to "Going to try"
Colonel Panic Member since:
2005-07-28

The Gentoo devs are not going to put it in the Portage tree until it hits 4.1. This has been discussed on the forums. Anyway if you want to try it, install layman and use the svn repository. I've been using on a Dell Latitude 820 and it's working great. There are some bumps, but nothing crashing. It's more like some apps are missing that a heavy KDE user looks for.

By the way Aaron already said that 4.0 was just the framework for 4.1, although I think it is quite usable.
Thanks to the whole KDE team!

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Going to try
by WereCatf on Fri 11th Jan 2008 17:17 UTC in reply to "RE: Going to try"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

The Gentoo devs are not going to put it in the Portage tree until it hits 4.1.

Not even the unstable tree? I use the unstable tree anyways.. But if it requires me to install layman and all that I think I'll just download some binary distro and try it in a VM. Or wait until it arrives in the portage tree.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Going to try
by spikeb on Sat 12th Jan 2008 06:08 UTC in reply to "Going to try"
spikeb Member since:
2006-01-18

I have never liked KDE, all it's clutter et al.. But well, since everyone has been touting KDE 4.0 as being almost as huge thing as if Jesus was reborn again I will give it a try as soon as it lands on Gentoo repos. I expect it to not really impress me that much but who knows? Atleast then I know what everyone else talks about and I'll have some hands-on experience. We'll see in a week or two if I like it or not.

part of the point of 4.x is to get rid of the clutter

Reply Score: 2

Moving from Gnome ... Maybe
by dindin on Fri 11th Jan 2008 13:58 UTC
dindin
Member since:
2006-03-29

After 8 years of using Gnome, maybe Its time to switch. I used to translate Gnoem and its applications and of late being doing that for OS X applications and man .. the GUI based translations for Apple is so much easier than those stupid .pot file translation for Gnome. I am reading that KDE 4.0 is going to be the same way as OS X for this. There was talk of doing this in Gnome 3.0 but who the hell knows when that will come.

-D

Reply Score: 5

on Windows
by backdoc on Fri 11th Jan 2008 13:58 UTC
backdoc
Member since:
2006-01-14

I think it will be really cool when I can go to the KDE home page and download a Windows Installer. I'd love to be able to use the same environment at home and work with all (almost all) of the same apps.

Some will say that this will cause people to have no impetus to move to a free OS if they can get all of their apps on Windows. They have a point, but I think they are wrong. I think it will simply remove another barrier for people moving from Windows to a free OS.

Really... if you stop and think about it... why shouldn't the OS be just another abstraction like your sound card, your video card, motherboard or your monitor? If you make the OS a commodity, you really prop up free OS's. Think about it. Why would you pay for a sound card if you could obtain it for free? Similarly, why would you pay for an OS when you can get it for free (once it becomes just a commodity -- basically like vmware).

Reply Score: 3

RE: on Windows
by TaterSalad on Fri 11th Jan 2008 15:15 UTC in reply to "on Windows"
TaterSalad Member since:
2005-07-06

I want KDE on Windows as well but you misunderstand the KDE project. Its not there to promote free OS's, its to provide a free windowing system. I'm stopped and thought about it but your post doesn't make much sense. Using free software does not lead to using a free OS. Look at firefox and open office. Free applications that don't lead people to use a free OS. Why would you pay for a sound card? Better functionality verses the free one. I can get an 8-bit 16 voice fm card for cheap, but there are now cards that are 32 bit 7.1 digital sound.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: on Windows
by backdoc on Fri 11th Jan 2008 16:07 UTC in reply to "RE: on Windows"
backdoc Member since:
2006-01-14

I want KDE on Windows as well but you misunderstand the KDE project. Its not there to promote free OS's,...

I didn't say that ... nor did I imply that.

Using free software does not lead to using a free OS. Look at firefox and open office. Free applications that don't lead people to use a free OS.

I'm comfortable saying they do, as a side effect -- not a primary goal, promote alternative OS's. I doubt there's any hard data out there to support either your point of view or mine. It's probably just subjective at this point.


Why would you pay for a sound card? Better functionality verses the free one. I can get an 8-bit 16 voice fm card for cheap, but there are now cards that are 32 bit 7.1 digital sound.

If there is a difference, then I agree with you. But, that's pretty much the opposite of the point that I was trying to make. Right now, the apps you run are completely tied to your OS. If at some point in the future, everything is cross platform, then the OS you choose will be based on criteria like security and speed as opposed to apps like Quicken. I realize we are a long way off. But, the possibilities are cool.

Since KDE is what you "see" when you use a computer (assuming you're a KDE user), it's a bigger step toward being OS agnostic than a single app. You know... it's like people who think AOL is the Internet... to them, it is. Less technical users may one day think their Windowing interface *IS* their OS.

Wouldn't it be cool if you could write your app for KDE and just let KDE take care of all of the underlying differences between OS's?

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: on Windows
by Wemgadge on Fri 11th Jan 2008 21:23 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: on Windows"
Wemgadge Member since:
2005-07-02

You mean like here?

http://windows.kde.org/

cheers.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: on Windows
by backdoc on Fri 11th Jan 2008 22:51 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: on Windows"
backdoc Member since:
2006-01-14

Well, yeah ... more or less. I'm aware of that site. It seems kinda like a bastard child, though. I was envisioning something like a link for the Windows installer right on the Download menu or here http://www.kde.org/download/. If you go to the downloads link, I don't think there is any mention of a Windows version.

I'm not complaining. I'm excited about the possibilities and am simply gazing into the future. Once the Windows version matures, I suppose it will get better placement.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: on Windows
by borker on Fri 11th Jan 2008 22:14 UTC in reply to "RE: on Windows"
borker Member since:
2006-04-04

Using free software does not lead to using a free OS. Look at firefox and open office. Free applications that don't lead people to use a free OS


I think you're wrong about this on two fronts... the first being that after using FF and OO.o for a few months on windows I was able to switch my GF to linux because the two apps she spent 90% of her time in were there and functioned exactly the same.

Secondly, direct conversion of users is rarely the top reason I've seen given for windows ports of FOSS projects. Mostly what I've seen people state is that they want to do it to attract more developers to their project. I'd certainly say the at least FF has benefited in this way more than if it were an FOSS OS only project

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: on Windows
by segedunum on Sat 12th Jan 2008 09:10 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: on Windows"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

the first being that after using FF and OO.o for a few months on windows I was able to switch my GF to linux because the two apps she spent 90% of her time in were there and functioned exactly the same.

Would she have taken notice of a free desktop and switched by herself without you needing to do anything? No. Point made.

You switching your girlfriend is a laughable example.

Reply Score: 3

RE: on Windows
by butters on Fri 11th Jan 2008 22:06 UTC in reply to "on Windows"
butters Member since:
2005-07-08

I think it will be really cool when I can go to the KDE home page and download a Windows Installer. I'd love to be able to use the same environment at home and work with all (almost all) of the same apps.


I believe that the goal of the Windows (and Mac) port is NOT to provide a complete KDE4 desktop, but rather to port the development and runtime environments to Windows. So you'll still be using your Windows desktop (start menu, aero, etc). No KWin or Plasma, as these are X11-specific components. You'll be able to run any application written for KDE4, these apps will integrate tightly with each other as they do on *nix, and you'll be able to develop applications based on the KDE4 platform.

The overarching goal is to make KDE4 the premier cross-platform development framework, providing extremely high-level abstractions (e.g. KParts) not found in any other environment. They really don't have any interest in bringing the KDE4 desktop shell to Windows or Mac. If these users like the apps but want the desktop, then they'll have to switch to Linux, BSD, or Solaris. So there's still some incentive to "switch".

Reply Score: 6

RE: on Windows
by yahya on Sat 12th Jan 2008 09:52 UTC in reply to "on Windows"
yahya Member since:
2007-03-29

I think it will be really cool when I can go to the KDE home page and download a Windows Installer. I'd love to be able to use the same environment at home and work with all (almost all) of the same apps.



You can download an installer at http://windows.kde.org

However, I cannot see why anyone would want to run one desktop environment on top of another one.

Reply Score: 1

Quick!
by TaterSalad on Fri 11th Jan 2008 15:03 UTC
TaterSalad
Member since:
2005-07-06

Someone make packages for Ubuntu stat!

Reply Score: 2

RE: Quick!
by merkoth on Fri 11th Jan 2008 15:33 UTC in reply to "Quick!"
merkoth Member since:
2006-09-22

Follow the directions here:
http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-4.0.php

You don't need Kubuntu, Ubuntu will do fine ;)

Reply Score: 7

RE[2]: Quick!
by TaterSalad on Fri 11th Jan 2008 15:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Quick!"
TaterSalad Member since:
2005-07-06

Much appreciated ;) +1

Reply Score: 2

RE: Quick!
by miscz on Fri 11th Jan 2008 15:36 UTC in reply to "Quick!"
miscz Member since:
2005-07-17
RE[2]: Quick!
by TaterSalad on Fri 11th Jan 2008 16:22 UTC in reply to "RE: Quick!"
TaterSalad Member since:
2005-07-06

Appreciated +1 ;)

Reply Score: 2

A little better but...
by Joe User on Fri 11th Jan 2008 15:08 UTC
Joe User
Member since:
2005-06-29

...I still find the grey background of applications dull/dreary: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2130/2182997451_150e946f34_b.jpg

And the 3 round buttons in the upper-right corner of the title bar are not very æsthetic either.

Reply Score: 1

RE: A little better but...
by MamiyaOtaru on Fri 11th Jan 2008 17:30 UTC in reply to "A little better but..."
MamiyaOtaru Member since:
2005-11-11

...I still find the grey background of applications dull/dreary

I rather agree, though it's better than the white background they had before. if I get around to using KDE 4, I'll probably be using a different theme, like Polyester ( http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Polyester?content=27968 ) and a different color theme.

Third preview shot at that link is KDE4. Still not liking the colors, but I quite like how he's unified the borders. A scrollbar or header bar inside a scrollpane doesn't mean extra borders like it did in KDE3, which is quite nice. I'll probably be using something more like this: http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=colorkm3.png

That may not be to your taste either, but it's different ;) One could use something different yet again. Of course I do wish the default was a little different somehow, as that's where the first impressions come from. Perhaps some distros will use different defaults.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: A little better but...
by Joe User on Fri 11th Jan 2008 18:47 UTC in reply to "RE: A little better but..."
Joe User Member since:
2005-06-29

I like Polyester better than the default KDE4 theme as well ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: A little better but...
by gilboa on Sun 13th Jan 2008 18:26 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: A little better but..."
gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

... So use it! [1]
(instead of constantly repeating the same "KDE is ugly" mantra. **)


- Gilboa
[1] http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=27968
** Yeah, I know that you're not the only one... but 60% of the posts here revolve around how ugly KDE looks... And given the fact that KDE is -fully- configurable, this is nothing more then mindless rant.

Edited 2008-01-13 18:26 UTC

Reply Score: 2

That Taskbar...
by Meanwhile on Fri 11th Jan 2008 16:48 UTC
Meanwhile
Member since:
2005-09-03

The most irritating is the 50% too fat (=high) Taskbar, IMO.

Reply Score: 4

RE: That Taskbar...
by Joe User on Fri 11th Jan 2008 18:49 UTC in reply to "That Taskbar..."
Joe User Member since:
2005-06-29

"The most irritating is the 50% too fat (=high) Taskbar, IMO".

I agree. I have complained about it many times.

Reply Score: 2

RE: That Taskbar...
by Boldie on Fri 11th Jan 2008 19:28 UTC in reply to "That Taskbar..."
Boldie Member since:
2007-03-26

I usually don't reply to stuff but this is just a stupid thing to complain about.

It is fixed in a heartbeat. Right-click on the panel, choose "configure" and CHANGE the panel size. If you're not willing to customize even that, how are you ever going to manage to install an application?

One quick google search gives examples:
http://jamesthevicar.com/images/png/desktop-20050325.png
and
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8272/capture145su.png

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: That Taskbar...
by apoclypse on Fri 11th Jan 2008 19:51 UTC in reply to "RE: That Taskbar..."
apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

I think he's talking about KDE4, meanwhile you are showing pics of KDE3 and gnome. In KDE4 you can't change the size, or at least you can't do it by right clicking on the panel which will only give you the option of the widget which is closest at the point of click. At this time, at least to my knowledge you can't change the size of the panel. Maybe I'm wrong, and if that is the case please tell me how to do it because I've clicked everywhere trying to change the size to a less fisherprice setting.

Reply Score: 6

RE[3]: That Taskbar...
by Boldie on Fri 11th Jan 2008 20:21 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: That Taskbar..."
Boldie Member since:
2007-03-26

No you are right. I'm an idiot, it's KDE3. Very sorry.

well I hope it gets fixed soon (Both the panel size and me being an idiot.)

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: That Taskbar...
by czubin on Fri 11th Jan 2008 19:53 UTC in reply to "RE: That Taskbar..."
czubin Member since:
2005-12-31

It is fixed in a heartbeat. Right-click on the panel, choose "configure" and CHANGE the panel size. If you're not willing to customize even that, how are you ever going to manage to install an application?

Since the panel in KDE4 doesn't have it? ;)

(unless my KDE4 release packages are out of date, which I doubt)

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: That Taskbar...
by merkoth on Fri 11th Jan 2008 20:16 UTC in reply to "RE: That Taskbar..."
merkoth Member since:
2006-09-22

I usually don't reply to stuff but this is just a stupid thing to complain about.

It is fixed in a heartbeat. Right-click on the panel, choose "configure" and CHANGE the panel size. If you're not willing to customize even that, how are you ever going to manage to install an application?

One quick google search gives examples:
http://jamesthevicar.com/images/png/desktop-20050325.png
and
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8272/capture145su.png


So smart, so swift. It's a shame KDE4 doesn't feature such functionality. Next time at least read what are we talking about.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: That Taskbar...
by Boldie on Fri 11th Jan 2008 20:27 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: That Taskbar..."
Boldie Member since:
2007-03-26

Yes, so swift, so trigger happy, so stupid. Very sorry.

Please mod me down!


(How to edit the comments?)

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: That Taskbar...
by merkoth on Fri 11th Jan 2008 22:01 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: That Taskbar..."
merkoth Member since:
2006-09-22

Sorry for the harsh reply, I got up with the wrong foot today, I'm sorry too. And I also hope that too, it's really annoying.

Reply Score: 2

v RE[2]: That Taskbar...
by Meanwhile on Fri 11th Jan 2008 21:50 UTC in reply to "RE: That Taskbar..."
RE[2]: That Taskbar...
by Joe User on Fri 11th Jan 2008 22:52 UTC in reply to "RE: That Taskbar..."
Joe User Member since:
2005-06-29

But of course you can right-click it and change its height, and of course if you want an additional functionality you can go to the library, rent a C++ Bible and start coding it yourself.

The problem is that it is not properly set up as default. That is the problem. Same for the look & feel. Of course you can go to kde-look and change the look & feel, but you shouldn't have to.

Compare with OS X or Windows. I yet have to see some one who feels the need to change default settings. Good decisions vs. bad decisions. That is the problem with KDE.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: That Taskbar...
by BluenoseJake on Fri 11th Jan 2008 23:29 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: That Taskbar..."
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

"Compare with OS X or Windows. I yet have to see some one who feels the need to change default settings"

WTF? Nobody you know has ever changed the wallpaper? Turned off luna? Changed the DPI? Changed the font size?

I can't believe it.

Reply Score: 6

RE[4]: That Taskbar...
by melkor on Mon 14th Jan 2008 11:39 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: That Taskbar..."
melkor Member since:
2006-12-16

Get out into the real world - most people do NOT change the font size, turn off Luna etc. Most people do NOT know how to do those things. Some figure out how to add new wallpaper, but a lot of average users don't - they'll download something like webshots and do it that way, cos it's easier.

I have to agree with others though - KDE 4 is ugly. Ugly fonts, ugly buttons, and the window/panel decorations aren't much better. Come on KDE - first impressions are everything, how about releasing KDE 4 with a much better look to it? KDE 3.x looks far more sexier on its default install imho.

To all those saying "but this is v4.0, the real release is 4.1", I say so what? OS X looked damn sexy on the 10.0 release. Apple understands that looks are nearly everything. Get that right, and people will be more predisposed to try it. Compare it to dating - how many of you will date an ugly person, or give them a dating chance, when there's a much more attractive alternative? Get my point?

Dave

Reply Score: 1

Startup speed
by czubin on Fri 11th Jan 2008 16:55 UTC
czubin
Member since:
2005-12-31

Has anyone noticed the speed on a second login?
On a second login it takes about 2 seconds to have a fully working desktop.
Now I'm wondering if they could preload some stuff in kdm and what not, to have the first login the same speed and dump the splashscreen(replace by 'fade in' or something) ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE: Startup speed
by elsewhere on Fri 11th Jan 2008 19:32 UTC in reply to "Startup speed"
elsewhere Member since:
2005-07-13

Now I'm wondering if they could preload some stuff in kdm and what not, to have the first login the same speed and dump the splashscreen(replace by 'fade in' or something) ;)


KDM3 already does that for KDE3, so I suspect it won't be long before KDM4 becomes optimized, in fact I'm not even sure KDM4 is part of the package yet(?). I guess the drawback is that the majority of distros, even those shipping KDE4, will likely be using KDE3 as well. So then it will become a tossup for KDM3 or KDM4, which means one will be optimized and the other not. Unless they can build some intelligence to preload libraries for the default desktop?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Startup speed
by apoclypse on Fri 11th Jan 2008 19:52 UTC in reply to "RE: Startup speed"
apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

There is no reason whatsoever that KDM4 can't load KDE3, so they could just use KDM4 and add KDE3 as a desktop entry.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Startup speed
by elsewhere on Fri 11th Jan 2008 20:17 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Startup speed"
elsewhere Member since:
2005-07-13

There is no reason whatsoever that KDM4 can't load KDE3, so they could just use KDM4 and add KDE3 as a desktop entry.


Absolutely, but that's not what I meant. In terms of preloading base libraries, would KDM4 preload KDE4, KDE3 or both?

Just pointing out that there may be some quirks to be worked out during the transition period where both versions will probably be in use interchangeably.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Startup speed
by apoclypse on Fri 11th Jan 2008 20:24 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Startup speed"
apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

Hmmm. I would say that it would preload KDE4, but I;m not sure if the preloading functionality isn't just a file somewhere that you could point to that lets you configure this for KDE3.

Reply Score: 2

Congrats...
by tux68 on Fri 11th Jan 2008 17:04 UTC
tux68
Member since:
2006-10-24

Congrats to the KDE team for reaching such an important milestone. Seems there are a lot of great developments and a good foundation for a strong desktop. Looking forward to trying it out for myself.

I do have to agree with people who are complaining about the look though. It seems a shame to do such great work under the hood and yet release it _looking_ like it does. Fat borders around windows and a huge ugly task bar etc.

Programmers can't be expected to be graphic designers though, would be nice to see KDE get some artistic talent lending a hand so that it could look as good out of the box as all its underlying technology warrants..

Anyway, Cheers!

Edited 2008-01-11 17:09 UTC

Reply Score: 2

kragil
Member since:
2006-01-04

Will all the excellent KDE appz be available on the proprietory plattforms soon?

I really hope so. K3b on Mac and Windows would be great!

Reply Score: 1

anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

Will all the excellent KDE appz be available on the proprietory plattforms soon?


The avialability on any platform largely depends on developers on said platforms participating in the project.

For example there are quite active developer groups on BSDs and now also on OpenSolaris, which means those platforms have "their" KDE pretty much available instantly.

OSX and Windows groups currently have only very limited man power and it takes more time to discover all platform specific issues and fix them.

Reply Score: 4

Kongrats but...
by irbis on Fri 11th Jan 2008 18:30 UTC
irbis
Member since:
2005-07-08

My congrats to KDE too! KDE4 looks quite nice indeed. Hopefully KDE4 will also better solve some shortcomings (often to do with usability) of older KDE releases that have actually made quite many people to switch to something else (Gnome, Xfce, Enlightenment etc.) instead of KDE. Time will tell?

As a side note - and don't take this too seriously, but at least I have got quite tired of the way KDE people like to name their applications: K this, K that, K there and K everywhere... How does that habit improve usability when almost every app starts with the same letter?? Consistency? Well, not really as not every app name that starts with K is related to KDE and vice versa. Oh, and I do have sense of humor too, and it may have been funny for a while to see applications named Kaffeine, Kopete, etc. but the joke has started to taste a bit sour at least in my mouth already years ago... In fact, I think that KDE has made me a bit allergic to the letter K... ;)

If there would be no other reason why Dolphin's a better KDE file manager than Konqueror, it is its naming... ;)

Anyway, KDE4 looks kool & kosher. Kongrats! ;)

Reply Score: 2

"KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4"
by Luminair on Fri 11th Jan 2008 19:15 UTC
Luminair
Member since:
2007-03-30

"KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4"?

Apparently KDE is now being developed in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twilight_Zone

Reply Score: 3

RE: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4"
by lemur2 on Sat 12th Jan 2008 05:15 UTC in reply to ""KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4""
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Sigh!

KDE 3.0 was released April 3rd, 2002.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_KDE_development

KDE 3.0, released April 3 2002, was not KDE 3.

KDE 3 was this:
# 3 April 2002: KDE 3.0 released[17]

* 22 May 2002: KDE 3.0.1 released[18]
* 2 July 2002: KDE 3.0.2 released[19]
* 19 August 2002: KDE 3.0.3 released[20]
* 9 October 2002: KDE 3.0.4 released[21]
* 18 November 2002: KDE 3.0.5 released[22]
* 21 December 2002: KDE 3.0.5a released[23]

# 28 January 2003: KDE 3.1 released[24]

* 20 March 2003: KDE 3.1.1 released[25]
* 9 April 2003: KDE 3.1.1a released[26]
* 19 May 2003: KDE 3.1.2 released[27]
* 29 July 2003: KDE 3.1.3 released[28]
* 16 September 2003: KDE 3.1.4 released[29]
* 14 January 2004: KDE 3.1.5 released[30]

# 3 February 2004: KDE 3.2 released[31]

* 9 March 2004: KDE 3.2.1 released[32]
* 19 April 2004: KDE 3.2.2 released[33]
* 9 June 2004: KDE 3.2.3 released[34]

# 19 August 2004: KDE 3.3 released[35]

* 12 October 2004: KDE 3.3.1 released[36]
* 8 December 2004: KDE 3.3.2 released[37]

# 16 March 2005: KDE 3.4 released[38]

* 31 May 2005: KDE 3.4.1 released[39]
* 27 July 2005: KDE 3.4.2 released[40]
* 13 October 2005: KDE 3.4.3 released[41]

# 29 November 2005: KDE 3.5 released[42]

* 31 January 2006: KDE 3.5.1 released[43]
* 28 March 2006: KDE 3.5.2 released[44]
* 31 May 2006: KDE 3.5.3 released[45]
* 02 August 2006: KDE 3.5.4 released[46]
* 11 October 2006: KDE 3.5.5 released[47]
* 25 January 2007: KDE 3.5.6 released[48]
* 22 May 2007: KDE 3.5.7 released[49]
* 16 October 2007: KDE 3.5.8 released[50]


Likewise, KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4, but merely the very first version in the series of releases that will be KDE 4.

After all, we are not talking about Windows here, KDE is an open source project.

Release early, release often = open source, remember?

http://catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/cathedral-bazaar/ar0...
http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue3_3/raymond/#d4
http://radio.weblogs.com/0103807/stories/2002/12/01/understandingTh...

Did I point out enough KDE 3 releases to illustrate this point for you?

Edited 2008-01-12 05:20 UTC

Reply Score: 8

RE[2]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4"
by Luminair on Sat 12th Jan 2008 07:33 UTC in reply to "RE: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4""
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

Man do you really believe that? KDE 3.0 is not KDE 3? Instead, every release of KDE 3 is KDE 3? And wouldn't that mean every release of KDE 4 (which is only KDE 4 right now) would also be KDE 4?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4"
by segedunum on Sat 12th Jan 2008 09:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4""
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

Man do you really believe that? KDE 3.0 is not KDE 3? Instead, every release of KDE 3 is KDE 3?

KDE 3 consists of the whole development cycle and point releases in the KDE 3.x cycle. Which part of that did you fail to understand? Notice that the minor release numbers are prefixed by a 3.

And wouldn't that mean every release of KDE 4 (which is only KDE 4 right now) would also be KDE 4?

Well yes, because it has 4 as its major revision number. KDE 4 is talked about because it's taken as a whole, and is a development journey on the way to something a fair bit better than what we've had before in the freedesktop world.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4"
by Luminair on Sat 12th Jan 2008 10:02 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4""
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

So you think KDE 4.0 is KDE 4. That is good, because it is. Since you agree with me I'm not sure why you replied as if you don't.

The guy I replied to said exactly this, copied directly from his post: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4", which we both agree is clearly not correct.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4"
by segedunum on Sat 12th Jan 2008 20:19 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4""
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

So you think KDE 4.0 is KDE 4.

KDE 4.0 is a part of KDE 4. By definition, it can't be the whole of KDE 4 can it (denoted by the is in that sentence), since we've got further releases to go?

The guy I replied to said exactly this, copied directly from his post: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4", which we both agree is clearly not correct.

KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4. However, it is a part of KDE 4. There are further parts to come. This is what you didn't understand.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4"
by lemur2 on Sat 12th Jan 2008 09:36 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4""
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Instead, every release of KDE 3 is KDE 3? And wouldn't that mean every release of KDE 4 (which is only KDE 4 right now) would also be KDE 4?


Every release of KDE with the major version number = 3 (that is, every release that matches the pattern KDE 3.*.*) is a KDE 3 release. All those releases represent KDE 3.

It is the same for Windows ... people just don't realise it. Windows XP, Windows XP SP1, Windows XP SP2, and now Windows XP SP3 are all Windows XP.

Windows doesn't have quite the same number of releases as KDE within a given major release cycle, but it does have them nevertheless. We are already looking at Vista SP1 aren't we?

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4"
by Luminair on Sat 12th Jan 2008 09:55 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4""
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

You just said that KDE 3 is KDE 3 and KDE 3 is not KDE 3.

> KDE 3.0, released April 3 2002, was not KDE 3.

> Every release of KDE with the major version number = 3 (that is, every release that matches the pattern KDE 3.*.*) is a KDE 3 release.

So KDE 3.0 is not KDE 3. But KDE 3.0 is KDE 3. Do you actually believe this, or are you getting tongue-tied?

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4"
by sbergman27 on Sat 12th Jan 2008 10:34 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4""
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

So KDE 3.0 is not KDE 3. But KDE 3.0 is KDE 3.


It's quite simple. If the facet of KDE X.0 under discussion makes KDE X look good, then KDE X.0 is KDE X. And if the facet of KDE X.0 under discussion does not make KDE X look good, then KDE X.0 is not KDE X.

Does that clear things up? ;-)

Edited 2008-01-12 10:38 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4"
by lemur2 on Sat 12th Jan 2008 10:38 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4""
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

You just said that KDE 3 is KDE 3 and KDE 3 is not KDE 3.

> KDE 3.0, released April 3 2002, was not KDE 3.

> Every release of KDE with the major version number = 3 (that is, every release that matches the pattern KDE 3.*.*) is a KDE 3 release.

So KDE 3.0 is not KDE 3. But KDE 3.0 is KDE 3. Do you actually believe this, or are you getting tongue-tied?


I'm not getting tongue tied, and I said nothing of the sort.

It works like this:
- KDE 3.0 is part of the KDE 3 series or releases, the first one (release) of the series in fact.
- The KDE 3 series of releases is most often referred to as simply "KDE 3".
- Typically, when one says "KDE 3" one means the whole series, not just the one release KDE 3.0.0 (or for that matter any other release KDE 3.something.something).
- Ergo, KDE 3.0.0 is not KDE 3. KDE 3.0.0 is just one release within KDE 3.
- Likewise for KDE 4.0.0. Although KDE 4.0.0 happens right now to be the only release in the KDE 4 series, that won't remain true even for the whole of just this year.
- Ergo, KDE 4.0.0 is not KDE 4.

Follow?

It doesn't matter if you do, or don't follow, it is perfectly clear to people of adequate intelligence.

The term "Windows XP" does not refer exclusively to just any one of these products:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_xp#Editions
... nor does it refer exclusively to any particular one of these releases:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_xp#Service_packs

Rather the term "Windows XP" refers to the whole set:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_xp
"Windows XP is a line of operating systems developed by Microsoft for use on general-purpose computer systems, including home and business desktops, notebook computers, and media centers."


Just as the term "Windows XP" refers to a whole series of operating system releases, so to does the term "KDE 3" refer to a series of desktop releases. The term "KDE 4" refers to a newer series of the same line, just as the term "Windows Vista" refers to a newer series of a line of operating system releases from Microsoft.

Reply Score: 4

RE[6]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4"
by Luminair on Sat 12th Jan 2008 15:22 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4""
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

It works like this:
- KDE 3.0 is part of the KDE 3 series or releases, the first one (release) of the series in fact.
- The KDE 3 series of releases is most often referred to as simply "KDE 3".
- Typically, when one says "KDE 3" one means the whole series, not just the one release KDE 3.0.0 (or for that matter any other release KDE 3.something.something).
- Ergo, KDE 3.0.0 is not KDE 3. KDE 3.0.0 is just one release within KDE 3.



Man, I've taken some propositional logic courses in my life time, and you just failed them. You are definitely in a crazy minority on this.

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4"
by DigitalAxis on Sat 12th Jan 2008 19:24 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4""
DigitalAxis Member since:
2005-08-28

KDE 4.0.0 is KDE 4, but KDE 4 is not KDE 4.0.0. By that I mean it is not ALL of KDE 4, just a subset, and right now a subset with some... rough edges.

For instance, all the flash ads on OSNews are creating 100% opaque bars at the very top right of my screen) when I use Firefox, the system settings window changes size depending on what page you're on, the default clock does not allow you to change the font size, the default taskbar only has options for 'show tooltips' (I'm not even sure if you can move it), and for some reason my taskbar Pidgin icon is not displaying properly (and is now just plain missing, yet the empty space is clickable).

I need to figure out if these are Kubuntu bugs or KDE bugs.

On the plus side, the Dolphin that ships with KDE 4 is a lot better than the one that shipped with Kubuntu 7.10

Edited 2008-01-12 19:40 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4"
by lemur2 on Sun 13th Jan 2008 03:15 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4""
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Man, I've taken some propositional logic courses in my life time, and you just failed them. You are definitely in a crazy minority on this.


Unsupported assertion.

Your saying something does not make it so.

If you wish to point out a logic error, then by all means do so ... but make sure you point out the actual error. Just saying to your opponent "you are wrong" and "you are crazy" doesn't cut it.

In fact, your own argument boils down to an ad hominem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Naughty naughty.

You are not within the OSNews posting rules.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4"
by WereCatf on Sat 12th Jan 2008 16:30 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4""
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15


It works like this:
- KDE 3.0 is part of the KDE 3 series or releases, the first one (release) of the series in fact.
- The KDE 3 series of releases is most often referred to as simply "KDE 3".
- Typically, when one says "KDE 3" one means the whole series, not just the one release KDE 3.0.0 (or for that matter any other release KDE 3.something.something).
- Ergo, KDE 3.0.0 is not KDE 3. KDE 3.0.0 is just one release within KDE 3.


KDE 3.0.0 is not WHOLE KDE 3, but it is one release within KDE 3 and as such it can be referred to as "KDE 3". KDE 3.0 is as much KDE3 as KDE 3.5 is KDE3. Ergo, KDE 4.0 is as much KDE4 as KDE 4.1. Either you call them all KDE4 or you call none of them KDE4.

As for trying to use Windows XP as an example..well, you call Windows XP without any SP applied Windows XP anyway, don't you? So KDE4.0 is KDE4 too.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4"
by Thom_Holwerda on Sat 12th Jan 2008 18:47 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: "KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4""
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

So KDE4.0 is KDE4 too


KDE 4 is a concept, a vision, a set of ideas put together. KDE 4.0 is just the first step en route to that vision.

Take the Porsche 911. The first one, over 40 years old now, sucked balls. A car with the engine in the back, behind the rear axle? A suicide box on wheels, that's what it was. It's performance wasn't superb, and its handling was probably worse than that of a unicycle with a square wheel.

Over the past four decades, however, Porsche refined this wrong design (yes, that's a wrong design), up until the 911 we have today (type 997). It's still ugly as sin, but its handling is... Near perfect. There are few cars that can compare to the 911 favourably when it comes to its handling.

Ferdinand Porsche had a vision, a set of ideas, the concept of the "911". However, their first attempt, version 1.0 so to speak (type 911), just didn't conform to this vision at all - in fact, it sucked balls. The car needed many revisions, and today we are at version god-knows-what (type 997) that conforms to Ferdinand's vision much more closely than the original 911.

KDE 4.0.0 is the type 911 of the KDE 4 vision, while the last revision of KDE 4.x will be the type 997* of the KDE 4 vision. It's really not that hard to understand.

* Assuming for argument's sake that the type 997 would be the last and final version.

Edited 2008-01-12 18:47 UTC

Reply Score: 3

v All this development time
by bryanv on Fri 11th Jan 2008 20:30 UTC
v RE: All this development time
by Joe User on Fri 11th Jan 2008 22:47 UTC in reply to "All this development time"
RE[2]: All this development time
by BluenoseJake on Fri 11th Jan 2008 23:31 UTC in reply to "RE: All this development time"
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

"he final version is here, and, well, have a look at it. Linux people have complained about Vista's lack of refinement and testing. KDE4 is no better. When a development team starts ignoring its user base, it's time to wake up."

Everybody knows that 4.1 is the real release. The Devs have already says so. Comparing something the Devs say is unfinished, to something that MS says is finished, but has serious flaws, is just not right.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: All this development time
by segedunum on Sat 12th Jan 2008 09:01 UTC in reply to "RE: All this development time"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

You're modded down, but you're not the only one disappointed. Check on open-source forums, in newsgroups, in mailing lists. Many many people have been disappointed by the poor decisions taken by the KDE team lately.

Note the Windows icon used for this user ;-).

Reply Score: 5

Waiting for apps
by joekiser on Fri 11th Jan 2008 20:38 UTC
joekiser
Member since:
2005-06-30

I'm excited about this release, if only because now the applications will start trickling over. I'm one of the many who won't move over until this thing becomes as useful as my KDE 3.5x desktop. I've been using KDE for the better part of the last two years now after moving back from Gnome 2.x, and while initially I missed the aesthetic appeal of Clearlooks and the beauty of gtk font rendering, KDE's fast response and stability, as well as the practical nature of the experience (the apps and configurability), was persuasive. I'm hooked on Amarok and Kaffeine, and Konqueror is one of the more well thought out file managers I've used (although I'm told that this new Dolphin thing that worked its way into my default Kubuntu install before I appropriately uninstalled it, will be the default in KDE4). Only when these programs have been ported over will I be convinced to switch; until then, there's no use running two sets of libraries with little added functionality in the DE--I might as well be running Amarok in Gnome if that were the case.

BTW, for those saying KDE is ugly, I've found that the Polyester theme mated with the Tango icon set and Microsoft fonts is--dare I say it--beautiful. Much more pleasant on the eyes than the default Plastik or this new Oxygen thing.

Reply Score: 2

Perspective
by elsewhere on Fri 11th Jan 2008 21:27 UTC
elsewhere
Member since:
2005-07-13

One of the posters on the dot included this link: http://groups.google.com/group/de.comp.os.linux.misc/msg/cb4b2d67ff...

It's Matthias Etrich's proposed Kool Desktop Environment announcement from 1996.

Fascinating to see how far the project has come, and from pretty much humble beginnings. From reading the thread that followed, it's also evident that KDE had detractors and naysayers right from the beginning, the usual assortment of luddites, toolkit/language zealots, GPL-or-death-ers, armchair quarterbacks et al. and likely always will. As will every other software project on the planet.

If the complaints for this latest release amount to panel size or font appearance, I think the devs have done one hell of a job. And I suspect that much (but certainly not all) of the superficial complaining right now will be dust in the wind once applications start appearing that take advantage of those new frameworks and people can really start using KDE4, which was the whole point of KDE 4.0 being released now.

Reply Score: 10

HOME button
by John Blink on Fri 11th Jan 2008 21:39 UTC
John Blink
Member since:
2005-10-11

For those who have tried the new Konqueror.

Is the Home button a button that will take you to your default home page or your home folder?

Reply Score: 1

RE: HOME button
by czubin on Fri 11th Jan 2008 21:55 UTC in reply to "HOME button"
czubin Member since:
2005-12-31

home folder

Reply Score: 2

v RE[2]: HOME button
by Joe User on Fri 11th Jan 2008 22:40 UTC in reply to "RE: HOME button"
Memory Usage
by sb56637 on Sat 12th Jan 2008 03:29 UTC
sb56637
Member since:
2006-05-11

So what's the final word on memory usage under KDE 4.0? Does it use 40% more or less than KDE 3.x or what?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Memory Usage
by mat69 on Sat 12th Jan 2008 14:25 UTC in reply to "Memory Usage"
mat69 Member since:
2006-03-29

You can't say that easily as memory usage is hard to measure reliable -- so that the results have any value.
Nevertheless 40% is unrealistic.

Some parts use less because of Qt 4 and changes in the libaries, other use more -- double caching ...

Still memory usage is not a real KDE problem. A standard KDE 3 desktop hardly really uses 100mb directly after the start (free -m), after heavy usage I seldomly reach 400mb (especially because of non KDE progs).

Reply Score: 4

Wow
by kadams on Sat 12th Jan 2008 08:09 UTC
kadams
Member since:
2007-08-31

That is pretty ugly. I'll stick with KDE 3.x or Gnome when i'm on a linux box untill KDE 4 gets a bit more polished.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Wow
by mat69 on Sat 12th Jan 2008 14:27 UTC in reply to "Wow"
mat69 Member since:
2006-03-29

That is a good decision.
Wait for a version that brings actually value to you.
For most that won't be 4.0.0 but maybe later versions.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by rjtd
by rjtd on Sat 12th Jan 2008 14:37 UTC
rjtd
Member since:
2006-10-05

IMHO, KDE 4 default is ugly as hell.
The icons lack contrast and a clear border, and are generally not very well made. They lack quality and clarity. Like something done in the past century.
The taskbar is too big, and has way too big elements like the clock and the icons in it.
I really don't like the kicker menu as well. It's really ugly. Take a look at Mac OSX, Gnome Slab or even Vista. All their menus are way way better.
The window theme lacks contrast.
The fonts generally lack rendering quality. In this chapter, Gnome fonts look a lot better (I really love DejaVu Sans Condensed), and almost as good as Mac OSX ones.
Overall, the visual quality is really mediocre. They should work with real designers and usability experts. Programmers generally are not very good on this tasks.
But I'm sure that some "third-party" guys will have some beautifully themes for it. It's just that this default look will not give a very nice first impression.
As for the rest, KDE 4 is looking good. I really like Dolphin, and the integration of the desktop.
Thanks to the team for the effort put in such a big project.

Edited 2008-01-12 14:48 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by rjtd
by superstoned on Sun 13th Jan 2008 10:25 UTC in reply to "Comment by rjtd"
superstoned Member since:
2005-07-07

Well, you (and many others) clearly prove how taste differs. Imho, Oxygen looks incredibly good. Maybe you should use it for a while, I found it really grows on you. I used to try many themes for KDE 3, switching themes every few weeks. After using KDE 4 for a while, I stopped looking for KDE 3 themes - none came close to what KDE 4 has by default.

Really, Oxygen is better than you might think from a few screenshots. And it'll get better, the Oxygen artists will continue working on it.

Reply Score: 2

Sorry devs
by raver31 on Sat 12th Jan 2008 17:13 UTC
raver31
Member since:
2005-07-06

But KDE4 is not for me.
I was looking forward to the final version getting released, I did not want to dirty my Ubuntu system with an alpha/beta/rc version. I waited until final came out.
So, away I went, updated my sources and installed kde4-core.

It sucked. In fact, it sucked so much I opened a console and typed

sudo aptitude install ubuntu-desktop

Why ?

I have been a KDE 3.5 user for ages now, and it was great, and I was really looking forward to the things promised by the screenshots and user comments. So imagine how disappointed I felt when I found KDE4 is not for me. I have now moved back to Gnome and am pinning my hopes on that for the future.

I feel like a Vista user, promised the world then getting something he doesn't like.

Other people around here may love KDE4, they might think it is the best system ever, well, I am glad for them. It is not for me, but that is the beauty of Linux, we have that choice.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Sorry devs
by raver31 on Sun 13th Jan 2008 06:37 UTC in reply to "Sorry devs"
raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

No, 1 day of Gnome was enough. I am now back with KDE 3.5.8 It feels like a well fitting glove.

Hopefully, KDE 4.1 will be more polished than that offering, but until then, I am back in the KDE playground.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Sorry devs
by superstoned on Sun 13th Jan 2008 10:27 UTC in reply to "RE: Sorry devs"
superstoned Member since:
2005-07-07

That's OK, really. KDE 4.0 still has quite a few issues - it probably works fine for most users, but we really didn't have time yet to fix all cornercases. A little patience, and within 6 or 7 months you'll have 4.1 on your desktop ;-)

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Sorry devs
by Kokopelli on Sun 13th Jan 2008 21:03 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Sorry devs"
Kokopelli Member since:
2005-07-06

it probably works fine for most users, but we really didn't have time yet to fix all cornercases.


I think the KDE4 line has potential, but to say 4.0 will work fine for most users is a bit optimistic IMHO.

1) The very unifinished state of Plasma is a serious issue for the day to day use of the desktop. Panel can not be moved, resized or set to hide as examples.

2) keyboard shortcuts can not be configured via a right click on the menu item. As far as I can tell you can't set new application keyboard shortcuts at all from the GUI. It is there in the System Settings but does not allow you to set values.

3) xrandr does not work well with KWin/Plasma from either the command line or from the display applet. Once the screens are resized (even to the current existing settings) redraws are not done properly on either of my primary laptops.

4) The use of Plasmoids in place of icons for files on the desktop is clunky at best.

5) No clean way to configure the menu items for either the new, Suse-like, or traditional menu.

6) In addition to the above in general the System Settings application is anemic for options compared to kcontrol. As a recent convert to KDE (I guess about 6 months now), it was the ability to customize every aspect of my desktop that made me switch. KDE4 at this time is even less configurable than Gnome, much less XFCE or KDE 3.x.

7) Let the user turn off the "add widgets" hot corner. It is annoying.

It is not all bad mind you. My main points of grief lies with the desktop. The KDE4 versions of Dolphin, gwenview, and kate have already replace the KDE3 versions in my daily routine. ksysguard is also very nice, and I am sure there are many others that I simply do not use. This does not change the fact that, IMHO, KDE4.0 is NOT suitable for a day to day end user. I am sure with time KDE4 can be made a great experience for the end user, but 4.0 is not there.

I very much look forward to 4.1 though and despite the comments above think the KDE team is doing a great job.

EDIT: fixed a typo.

Edited 2008-01-13 21:13 UTC

Reply Score: 2

tried
by l3v1 on Mon 14th Jan 2008 21:49 UTC
l3v1
Member since:
2005-07-06

OK, so now I've been trying it for a little time, so I have some opinions. While I can recognize that in the long run this environment will be really cool (at least I hope so, the possibility is there, and big time), at this moment I felt like having a weird kde with the configurability of a really broken gnome.

Yes, it's a .0 release, yes, I know and acknowledge how kde development used to work and I don't complain, on the contrary, I'm a big fan. Still, these days many non-knowledgeable people keep an eye on new releases, and crowds of bloggers and forum posters are already spreading the word how borked this release is.

You can't convince them by saying it will be better in time, because they don't care. There are people, myself included, who are not really pessimistic, since kde didn't disappoint us for a long while now. But for the rest of them out there, well, this .0 release only gives a chance to talk about how kde has become dogfood.

And I'm sorry to see that. However, I look forward for the day when we can laugh in their faces.

Reply Score: 2