Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 15th Jan 2008 18:36 UTC
Apple During the MacWorld keynote Steve Jobs introduced various new products. Jobs started off with Time Capsule, an AirPort Extreme base station with an integrated hard drive, so you can use Time Machine wirelessly. The 500GB version is USD 299, the 1TB version USD 499. Apple also released an update to its Apple TV (free software update for current owners), which now does not require a computer to access new content. You can rent movies (new in iTunes) straight from the Apple TV, in DVD or HD quality. Lastly, as anticipated, Apple introduced the MacBook Air, which is quite thin at 0.16" to 0.76". It has a 13.3" display, multi-touch trackpad, optional SSD 64GB drive, Core 2 Duo processor (1.6-1.8Ghz), and 2GB of memory. The device lacks an optical drive, but you can either 'borrow' one from another Mac, or buy an external one for USD 99. The machine costs USD 1799.
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...
by Hiev (3.8) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 18:45 UTC
Hiev
Member since:
2005-09-27

To me the atraction is the solid state HD that comes with it.

RE: ...
by Riba (2.18) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 18:53 UTC in reply to "..."
Riba Member since:
2006-02-12

SSD does not come with it, it is an optional and very expensive extra.

RE: ...
by buff (3.08) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 23:32 UTC in reply to "..."
buff Member since:
2005-11-12

To me the atraction is the solid state HD that comes with it.

If solid state HD interests you check out newegg's solid state drives. I swapped an IDE magnetic drive with the 32 MB Samsung solid state. It is amazing how fast the laptop starts up. I've come to realize you don't need solid state for all your OS needs. If you switch your main drive with your applications to solid state you get a real boost in application opening times.

RE: ...
by StephenBeDoper (2.8) on Wed 16th Jan 2008 14:49 UTC in reply to "..."
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

To me the atraction is the solid state HD that comes with it.


To me, the attraction is that it's the first Apple laptop that's actually competitive with machines sub-notebooks like the x-series Thinkpads.

Awesome hardware
by PlatformAgnostic (2.44) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 18:47 UTC
PlatformAgnostic
Member since:
2006-01-02

Maybe I'll buy one to run Vista.

v Comment by hackmeister
by hackmeister (2.5) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 18:51 UTC
RE: Comment by hackmeister
by FunkyELF (3.84) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 19:15 UTC in reply to "Comment by hackmeister"
FunkyELF Member since:
2006-07-26

Was there any new DRM announced?
I know there was with the AppleTV rental scheme but what DRM are you talking about?

SSD
by Harald (2.12) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 18:55 UTC
Harald
Member since:
2006-03-10

I'm looking forward to the death of the hard drive.

But at 64GB it's just not there for me yet.

Edited 2008-01-15 18:55 UTC

RE: SSD
by Lokken (3.16) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 20:51 UTC in reply to "SSD"
Lokken Member since:
2006-06-27

The size isn't as much of a concern as the price, for me.

I think the 64 GB SSD adds another $1k on to the price.

RE[2]: SSD
by aesiamun (2.36) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 23:43 UTC in reply to "RE: SSD"
aesiamun Member since:
2005-06-29

That's cheap compared to other SSD drives:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820609244

Same size, larger enclosure, 50% more than the addon for the macbook air.

RE[3]: SSD
by bogomipz (2.36) on Sat 19th Jan 2008 14:45 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: SSD"
bogomipz Member since:
2005-07-11

Don't forget that the $1k is the *difference* between the 64GB SSD and the 80GB HD. The HD is probably < $100, though, so it's still a nice deal. Personally, I'll wait for SSD prices to drop.

Anticipate a lot of drive failures
by bousozoku (2.64) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 18:56 UTC
bousozoku
Member since:
2006-01-23

The iPod classic's drive is being used in the machine, so that should be interesting to see how it does but I suspect a lot of drive failures.

Still, it's less expensive than the Sony models and reasonably well-equipped. The new trackpad should turn some heads.

RE: Anticipate a lot of drive failures
by TaterSalad (3.44) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 20:57 UTC in reply to "Anticipate a lot of drive failures"
TaterSalad Member since:
2005-07-06

My 4th gen iPod lasted me 3 years before the drive died, which is surprisingly better than some of the PC drives I've had which lasted less than 2 years.

Johann Chua Member since:
2005-07-22

Eh, a PC hard drive gets a lot more stressed than an iPod's. iPods have to use a lot of energy-saving measures that usually mean accessing the hard drive as little as possible. Sure you could use an HDD-based iPod as an emergency boot drive for Macs, but if you did that regularly....

Kidney
by Thom_Holwerda (Staff) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 18:57 UTC
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

Me want now.

You only need one kidney, right?

RE: Kidney
by hackmeister (2.5) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 18:59 UTC in reply to "Kidney"
hackmeister Member since:
2006-10-26

Or a testicle. God gave us spares.

RE[2]: Kidney
by hackmeister (2.5) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 19:05 UTC in reply to "RE: Kidney"
hackmeister Member since:
2006-10-26

Do you think they'll take my 8 month old son for a trade?

RE[2]: Kidney
by KAMiKAZOW (3.16) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 19:06 UTC in reply to "RE: Kidney"
KAMiKAZOW Member since:
2005-07-06

Doesn't a liver grow back to full size after a half of it has been removed? Maybe it grows fast enough to get a new model every release cycle. ;)

RE[3]: Kidney
by Gryzor (2.48) on Wed 16th Jan 2008 09:50 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Kidney"
Gryzor Member since:
2005-07-03

LOL, no. ;)

Ethernet post missing
by andrewg (2.48) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 19:01 UTC
andrewg
Member since:
2005-07-06

I can't wait to see it in person. I can probably persuade myself to live with an external DVD/RW but the having that missing and also the ethernet port missing is a problem. I know there is a USB2.0 to ethernet adapter but thats just klunky.

I do realise that for many people none of the above is a problem and that Apple probably knows that for a many maybe even most people looking for a thin and light notebook it won't be a problem either.

edit: typos

Edited 2008-01-15 19:14 UTC

RE: Ethernet post missing
by Flatland_Spider (2.76) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 19:13 UTC in reply to "Ethernet post missing"
Flatland_Spider Member since:
2006-09-01

Double post.>:|

Edited 2008-01-15 19:21 UTC

RE: Ethernet post missing
by Flatland_Spider (2.76) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 19:20 UTC in reply to "Ethernet post missing"
Flatland_Spider Member since:
2006-09-01

My girlfriend has a Dell X300 which is a one spindle laptop, and she hasn't missed having a CD-ROM permanently attached. The last time it had a the media base attached was when I installed Xubuntu on it in September.

No Ethernet port? Only a dongle? What are they mad?

Install/Restore DVDs
by Lokken (3.16) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 19:12 UTC
Lokken
Member since:
2006-06-27

I've got to say, that one jumped out at me.

The laptop doesn't come with an optical drive, and yet it ships with Install/Restore DVDs.

Why not ship it with an Install/Restore USB key?

Not that I plan on getting one, I can't see myself living without a wired network connection.

I'm not a big fan of a laptop not meeting my needs without additional purchases.

Then again, I'm probably not their target audience.

Still, looks pretty spiffy.

RE: Install/Restore DVDs
by Adam S (Staff) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 19:16 UTC in reply to "Install/Restore DVDs"
Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

Because install/restore usb key = 1GB+ of media. At least. And that will cost a whole hell of a lot more than the 12c the DVD costs them.

RE[2]: Install/Restore DVDs
by Lokken (3.16) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 19:19 UTC in reply to "RE: Install/Restore DVDs"
Lokken Member since:
2006-06-27

Yes, I'm aware that it would cost more. How much more? Probably a lot more than $0.12, but probably less than the cost of me buying an external DVD drive.

I suppose I just dislike the thought getting a laptop with media that I can't use out-of-the-box.

RE[2]: Install/Restore DVDs
by Chicken Blood (1.8) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 19:19 UTC in reply to "RE: Install/Restore DVDs"
Chicken Blood Member since:
2005-12-21

Because install/restore usb key = 1GB+ of media. At least. And that will cost a whole hell of a lot more than the 12c the DVD costs them.

2GB USB keys can be got here in the US for about $10 (retail)

I'm sure that price could have easily been absorbed in the sticker for an $1800 notebook.

RE[2]: Install/Restore DVDs
by miscz (3.32) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 19:52 UTC in reply to "RE: Install/Restore DVDs"
miscz Member since:
2005-07-17

I have seen 8GB flash drives for 240zl/pln (about 100$ at current exchange rates), I guess that would be way more than enough.

RE[3]: Install/Restore DVDs
by sultanqasim (3) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 22:26 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Install/Restore DVDs"
sultanqasim Member since:
2006-10-28

Actually all 8 GB will be used up if there is only one install key. Leopard = ~ 6 GB + iLife etc. and it will be full

RE[3]: Install/Restore DVDs
by aesiamun (2.36) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 23:46 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Install/Restore DVDs"
aesiamun Member since:
2005-06-29

Leopard comes on a dual layer DVD, so it's probably close to 8GB if you include EVERYTHING on it.

RE[2]: Install/Restore DVDs
by WereCatf (3.24) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 22:18 UTC in reply to "RE: Install/Restore DVDs"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Because install/restore usb key = 1GB+ of media. At least. And that will cost a whole hell of a lot more than the 12c the DVD costs them.

True that, but would a read-only USB media be cheaper than the read-write USB media? I'd imagine so, but I don't know for sure. Anyway, it would be very useful, especially so in this case as there is no optical drive.

Though..2GB USB key costs like 15 euros and they would have gotten it for even cheaper price as they would have of course bought it in large amounts..

RE[3]: Install/Restore DVDs
by Cymro (2.72) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 22:29 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Install/Restore DVDs"
Cymro Member since:
2005-07-07

I would've thought if you were mad enough to spend £2,028 on a laptop with 64gb of storage, 1280x800 resolution screen, Intel graphics, no ethernet, no optical drive, no replaceable battery... the least you could expect would be a crummy USB key with your software on!

Edited 2008-01-15 22:30 UTC

AppleTV is a bust
by Eugenia (Staff) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 19:19 UTC
Eugenia
Member since:
2005-06-28

I blogged here about the AppleTV:
http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/01/15/apple-oh-how-you-failed-me...
I am personally unhappy about it.

RE: AppleTV is a bust
by KAMiKAZOW (3.16) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 19:28 UTC in reply to "AppleTV is a bust"
KAMiKAZOW Member since:
2005-07-06

Advertising a blog in the comments section is usually called spam.

RE: AppleTV is a bust
by Luminair (4.04) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 20:40 UTC in reply to "AppleTV is a bust"
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

Yeah it is pretty shitty that industry can't unf--k itself enough to produce a high quality system of hardware and software for media commerce. The hardware is cheap and common, the software is free and out there. I think Vudu probably does the movie rental thing the best so far though.

Edited 2008-01-15 20:41 UTC

Sorry to say this ...
by s_groening (2.72) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 21:35 UTC in reply to "AppleTV is a bust"
s_groening Member since:
2005-12-13

...but it seems as if you'd like to sound a bit 'VIP' in terms of your opinion by pointing out 'how you've already blogged about Apple TV' instead of simply bringing on the arguments concerning this discussion in this forum.

If it's not worth for you to repeat, it's not worth for us to read anyway, I'm sure ...

And knowing you, I'd like to point out that I'm not being hostile - I'm simply questioning whether you have something to say ... -Just as you may wonder that when reading this, which by the way I'm totally OK with ;)

RE: AppleTV is a bust
by cranfordio (2.13) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 23:41 UTC in reply to "AppleTV is a bust"
cranfordio Member since:
2005-11-10

I read your blog (but I can no longer post to it) and while I agree with most of what you say I think there are reasons why they don't yet support 1080p and why they don't support WMV, though why they don't support DIVX is beyond me. The main reason I think they don't offer 1080p is because first the current AppleTV doesn't support it and I think they were not ready to put a lot of money behind developing a new AppleTV (it hasn't done very well so far) just for 1080p support or allow for all of the additional bandwidth the larger file sizes would take up. The reason I believe they don't support WMV is because Microsoft doesn't support or develop WMV for Mac. It may be a dumb reason, but I think a legitimate one. Think about it, someone gets an AppleTV to use with their Windows PC, puts a lot of WMV files on it, then decides to get a Mac and then suddenly they can't use those files with their computer, then their on the phone with Apple asking for help with something Apple can't help them with. I also don't think Apple wants to put anything on their products that will have to say Windows only. The simple answer is, if it doesn't work with the Mac then they are not going to allow or support it period.

RE[2]: AppleTV is a bust
by Eugenia (Staff) on Wed 16th Jan 2008 00:11 UTC in reply to "RE: AppleTV is a bust"
Eugenia Member since:
2005-06-28

I don't ask for 1080p for the current version, but for proper 720/30p. 1080p requires hardware update.

As for WMV, it can be ported to the Mac, should Apple shells the cash to license the codec.

RE[3]: AppleTV is a bust
by Gryzor (2.48) on Wed 16th Jan 2008 10:03 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: AppleTV is a bust"
Gryzor Member since:
2005-07-03

…only that the Apple TV's target doesn't care and will never care about it.
Cry a river, build a bridge and get over it. The fact that you became an "expert" in movie/codec/video stuff lately, doesn't mean that you can scream like hell at a product that is clearly not targeted at you.

You overreacted too much. It's silly.
But wait... you can.

RE: AppleTV is a bust
by bornagainenguin (2.96) on Wed 16th Jan 2008 05:15 UTC in reply to "AppleTV is a bust"
bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

Why link a blog post on OSNews.com and then close the blog to comments simply because they aren't in agreement with your own stance? Suelry you knew that by linking to OSNews.com you'd get people who would want to discuss your post? Or do you think you are the last word on all things video related, now that you're no longer interested in OSes?

As for the format discussion on your blog, I personally would like to see MKV support as well as DivX\Xvid support added to the @TV. As well as every other format that can possibly be added--it's a media center set top box, to me that means it should support as many possible media types as can be found. Otherwise, what's the point?

--bornagainpenguin

RE[2]: AppleTV is a bust
by Johann Chua (2.48) on Wed 16th Jan 2008 06:07 UTC in reply to "RE: AppleTV is a bust"
Johann Chua Member since:
2005-07-22

Apple unsurprisingly wants to use the Apple TV to support the iTunes Store. Supporting formats that QuickTime/iTunes doesn't is probably a longshot.

RE[3]: AppleTV is a bust
by bornagainenguin (2.96) on Thu 17th Jan 2008 05:25 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: AppleTV is a bust"
bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

Yeah, I get that--only then why the emphasis on podcasts, particularly video podcasts in the iTunes store? User created video is going to be a driving force on any set top box like the Apple TV. It seems foolish to me to shut out any formats on the basis "it's not an Apple format" and still hope to make a media player box that just works.

I can understand Apple's reluctance in dealing with Microsoft and WMV--a quick scan at the latest with regard to their "Plays for Sure" audio files ought give any one a pause. I have a more dificult time understanding Apple's decision not to license codec support from more approachable companies like DivX or using open standards like OGM, OGG, Theora, etc...

Bottom line it comes down to the question of whether Apple can afford to build a walled garden in this day and age...and whether or not customers will let them. Not supporting DivX at the very least these days would be like releasing the first iPod without MP3 support because Apple would prefer users buy from their store--an expensive and costly mistake.

--bornagainpenguin

What's the deal with thin?
by AdamW (3.6) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 19:22 UTC
AdamW
Member since:
2005-07-06

I don't get the obsession with thin.

I don't care how thin my laptop is. I care how *big* it is. A difference of 0.2" of thickness really doesn't make any practical difference to me, but the difference between a 12" and 13" screen size does. I can fit a 12" laptop in my shoulder courier bag, a 13" one I can't.

Given that most people just wind up sticking their laptop in a carrying case with a bunch of other stuff, why the obsession over a fraction of an inch of thickness? Just don't get it. Height / width and weight matter more in most cases, I'd think.

overall, looks like a nice system, though.

RE: What's the deal with thin?
by andrewg (2.48) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 19:37 UTC in reply to "What's the deal with thin?"
andrewg Member since:
2005-07-06

I agree. I was looking at an acer 12inch the other day. Not the thinnest thing in the world, not great looking but not disagreeable. You buy a docking station with it, maybe a spare battery and you have pretty much the best of both worlds. Nice large screen, normal keyboard and mouse when at your desk and a small easy to use notebook for on the road while remaining powerful and sturdy enough for most applications.

This macbook air is more about show than any actual superior functionality - maybe the trackpad is more functional - its about the rush you get showing your buddies your cool new ultra thin notebook. You show them the trackpad features the wireless stuff, how thin the screen is. You take it to the coffee shop, the park, wherever people are so they can see you have style.

Too thin
by leos (4.68) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 19:32 UTC
leos
Member since:
2005-09-21

Looks like it would be very flimsy, and reduce the keyboard travel. No optical drive is fine, but no ethernet port? What the hell. I would accept that on a bargain laptop like the EeePC (which actually does have one), but on a $1800 machine?

This is more style accessory than useful I think.

Edited 2008-01-15 19:33 UTC

RE: Too thin
by andrewg (2.48) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 19:47 UTC in reply to "Too thin"
andrewg Member since:
2005-07-06

One reason the ultra thin notebook was predicted was because of a patent on notebook shell(chassis) construction. Basically it describes how to use glue and electrical bonding via a conductive paste to replace screws and rivets in many places. So you basically get a one piece shell which is stronger than one riveted and screwed together whichs allows thinner designs while maintaining required strength.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/05/17/new-apple-pate...

Note: I am not sure if this technique was used in the macbook air.

Edit: spelling

Edited 2008-01-15 19:55 UTC

No doubt
by Yoda (1.5) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 19:47 UTC
Yoda
Member since:
2006-05-30

Most sexy laptop.
Ever.

No user replacable battery
by Moulinneuf (2.04) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 20:11 UTC
Moulinneuf
Member since:
2005-07-06

Apparently they got the thin in but left everything else out ...

- The Graphic card is a low end Intel GMA 3100 with no upgrade option.

- The price is too high if they leave out the optical drive as an accessory.

- There is no remote included.

- There is no user replacable battery.

- It assume everyone is on wifi ...

RE: No user replacable battery
by tyrione (2.52) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 20:27 UTC in reply to "No user replacable battery"
tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

GMA X3100. Of course they limited it to 144M whereas it could have been upped to 384MB.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA#Table_of_GMA_graphics_cores_...


Remote: $19 add-on.

Battery: Bad design decision.

I think if they could have achieved a low-profile replaceable battery they would have done so.

The 60% reduction in Chip-size by Intel is impressive.

RE: No user replacable battery
by Luminair (4.04) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 20:44 UTC in reply to "No user replacable battery"
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

No replaceable battery means it has 3 years of useful battery life in it before half the capacity is gone and it becomes a pariah.

RE: No user replacable battery
by KugelKurt (3.88) on Wed 16th Jan 2008 08:36 UTC in reply to "No user replacable battery"
KugelKurt Member since:
2005-07-06

I just watched the keynote and it seems that the battery is just above the bottom cover of the MBA. It doesn't seem to be complicated to replace the battery: Just remove the 4 screws on the bottom and plug in a new battery.
Of course this is just the impression I got from the small schematic that was shown during the keynote. We'll have to reserve our final judgement until somebody really disassembled one of those.

some good points
by AdamW (3.6) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 20:26 UTC
AdamW
Member since:
2005-07-06

Intel graphics is good for anyone on Linux, but you're right about no user-replacable battery being bad. Better get AppleCare on this one if you want it to last more than three years (about median lifetime for Li-I batteries).

slow hard disk
by AdamW (3.6) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 20:31 UTC
AdamW
Member since:
2005-07-06

Also just noticed the hard disk is 4200RPM.

Working with a 4200RPM hard disk can resemble dental surgery without an anaesthetic, at times. It gets the job done but it's slow, troublesome and very painful. ;)

Nice Toy, but...
by porcel (7.52) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 20:49 UTC
porcel
Member since:
2006-01-28

I will say three things:

1) That laptop is a thing of beauty, but I won't be paying that price tag anytime soon. If I need a UMPC, I primarily need wireless web access, VoIP, email, a word processor and a terminal, all of which are provided by the Asus eee laptop.

In fact, I can get myself 5 eee Asus laptops for the price of that laptop. Or rather get one and take my wife and son on a nice weekend trip and have money left over to put into a college or retirement fund. But hey, I know there is a market for these shiny toys, I am just not in that target market.

2) Congratulations to Apple for pushing the envelope, although I have seen laptops that were just as innovative in the Japanese market.

3) No ethernet port is a big deal to me.

RE: Nice Toy, but...
by MattPie (2) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 21:16 UTC in reply to "Nice Toy, but..."
MattPie Member since:
2006-04-18

In fact, I can get myself 5 eee Asus laptops for the price of that laptop. Or rather get one and take my wife and son on a nice weekend trip and have money left over to put into a college or retirement fund. But hey, I know there is a market for these shiny toys, I am just not in that target market.

This device isn't an UMPC. I don't know if you've played with an eee or any other UMPC*, but UMPC keyboards are merely sufficient for basic use and the screens (generally 800x480) are barely large enough for reasonable use.


* I've played with a Sony UX280P a bunch for work. I took it home one night and while I could check mail, writing anything took forever. The model had a 1024x600 screen which wasn't bad, but I can't see 800x480 being useful unless you're using the mobile-device feeds. The eee's keyboard should be a bit better; I tried to get my hands on one, but the project shot it down since the screen didn't have the res.

Apple does "it?" again!
by intangible (2.72) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 20:52 UTC
intangible
Member since:
2005-07-06

So they're releasing a new laptop and it's suddenly the second coming?

It has no DVD drive, no 3D support, no ethernet and costs $500 more than a similar VAIO that has a faster 160GB drive, faster processor, and 3D support... but somehow, Apple is the "innovators" yet again?

Ah, so none of that matters, it's the "thinness" that really matters. Well, why isn't the Intel Mobile Metro heralded as the second coming, it's comparable in specs, AND thinner: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/intel-mobile-metro-notebook/

I'll never understand the undying love people have for a corporation.

RE: Apple does "it?" again!
by AdamW (3.6) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 21:08 UTC in reply to "Apple does "it?" again!"
AdamW Member since:
2005-07-06

The Mobile Metro is a *concept*. i.e., you can't actually buy it. You can buy this and have it delivered in two weeks.

RE[2]: Apple does "it?" again!
by intangible (2.72) on Tue 15th Jan 2008 21:11 UTC in reply to "RE: Apple does "it?" again!"
intangible Member since:
2005-07-06

Looks like I can only pre-order it.