Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 13th Feb 2008 20:50 UTC, submitted by Mark Wielaard
Java The IcedTea project provides a harness to build the source code from OpenJDK using Free Software build tools and provides replacements libraries for the binary plugs with code from the GNU Classpath project. This release adds the "Zero-assembler" port which will allow IcedTea to run with zero (ok, minimal) porting effort on any GNU/Linux architecture that has a gcc and libffi port available. JNLP support has been added through the addition of NetX, which makes a lot of java webstart applications work out of the box. Check out the screenshots. Gary Benson will give a talk about the zero-assembler port at FOSDEM during the free Java developer meeting where GNU Classpath, OpenJDK and many other Free Java projects come together to plan the future of Free Java on GNU/Linux.
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Cool
by mabhatter on Wed 13th Feb 2008 22:28 UTC
mabhatter
Member since:
2005-07-17

This makes the "free" Java project somewhat usable moving out of the extreme hobby project relm. Good for them. While Java is "free as in money" it's still heavily patented and copyrighted. It's extensive use at the student and enterprise level has had many Pure-OSS fans up in arms for years... afraid of the days when you had to BUY a C++ compiler to do any programming at all returning if Sun didn't stop "moving the cheese" or open up. Sun's even opened a free version of Java up to the point it is "blessed" as "real java" and can meet OSS rules.

That means 100% OSS projects like Debian can include Java compatibility in the distro, it also opens up all the cool R&D people have been doing and putting into OSS, but projects like Debian wouldn't touch any of that because the base language of Java wasn't free. Now the "real" OSS people will support Java fully as an OSS platform. Now there's no excuse to bother with Mono either!

Reply Score: 2

RE: Cool
by superman on Wed 13th Feb 2008 23:17 UTC in reply to "Cool"
superman Member since:
2006-08-01

95 % FUD.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Cool
by nunogt on Wed 13th Feb 2008 23:38 UTC in reply to "Cool"
nunogt Member since:
2006-01-27

It is generally considered a good thing knowing wtf you're talking about before actually posting a comment.

Last time I checked the OpenJDK project (which btw is the official Sun effort to open the JDK under the GPLv2 with classpath exception) was possible to bootstrap resorting exclusively to open source software and was more than 97% feature complete, with some subsystems such as crypto and JNLP stubbed. This new work towards both of these technologies will increase the compatibility even more and is an important milestone.

IcedTea is already supported and included as the default JVM in Fedora 8.

Edited 2008-02-13 23:40 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Cool
by superman on Wed 13th Feb 2008 23:49 UTC in reply to "RE: Cool"
superman Member since:
2006-08-01

IcedTea is an ephemeral projet. Everything will be put in OpenJDK.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Cool
by SEJeff on Thu 14th Feb 2008 05:23 UTC in reply to "Cool"
SEJeff Member since:
2005-11-05

agreed. This is pretty exciting. I disagree about mono being a bad thing though

Reply Score: 2

Improvements...
by kajaman on Wed 13th Feb 2008 23:35 UTC
kajaman
Member since:
2006-01-06

Great, that's fantastic.

Currently I run setup, where I have 64-bit version of IcedTea installed on my laptop to launch desktop applications and applets. Works with both 90% of times to all what I need. But I have also installed 32bit version of Java _just_ for running java web start applications. And I also have 64 bit official Java from Sun installed, which I use to launch apps that refuse to work properly with icedtea (like netbeans to some point).

I hope that after installing Java I can dramatically reduce number of Java VM's on my machine ;D.

Reply Score: 2

Hopefully redundant soon
by KugelKurt on Wed 13th Feb 2008 23:46 UTC
KugelKurt
Member since:
2005-07-06

The IcedTea project is cool for doing the initial work on 100% free Java but hopefully it will be redundant soon, because the official OpenJDK project might absorb IcedTea's changes to the source code soon.

Edited 2008-02-13 23:47 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Hopefully redundant soon
by jasutton on Thu 14th Feb 2008 01:28 UTC in reply to "Hopefully redundant soon"
jasutton Member since:
2006-03-28

I believe Sun has done the "initial" work on 100% free Java, since they donated 96% of the java codebase to the open source community. ;)

They're legally obligated not to release the other components, as they were licensed from third parties.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Hopefully redundant soon
by KugelKurt on Thu 14th Feb 2008 12:09 UTC in reply to "RE: Hopefully redundant soon"
KugelKurt Member since:
2005-07-06

I believe Sun has done the "initial" work on 100% free Java, since they donated 96% of the java codebase to the open source community. ;)

Who delivered the first 100% free and functional Java version? Sun or IcedTea/RedHat?

Reply Score: 3

Fedora8
by RHCE07 on Thu 14th Feb 2008 02:58 UTC
RHCE07
Member since:
2007-12-08

Yes, Fedora8 has iced-tea java and it works, however you still are required to download the Sun version for the ability to run apps that require it.

The biggest problem I have with Java is it is specific to run an app with this release or version or something. From working with IBM blade centers they use Java for the management apps and they work about 1/2 the time. It is a real pain, you know if it worked and it did not require version 1.6.03 ect..... It is really a pain setting up Servers and trying to find the 'correct' version of Java on Sun's website. I am not sure if anyone else has had the pleasure of downloading the Enterprise versions but be prepared for lots of pain in searching their website.

From the way I understand and what I have heard the .NET developers are what is wanted more than Java devs anyways. Maybe it actually works without have to search Sun's website and pray you find the right version, that will work for the app that can't be upgraded because it will break ect... I am fed up with fooling with it, I wish they could standardize the dang thing.

Reply Score: 0

RE: Fedora8
by ahmetaa on Thu 14th Feb 2008 05:17 UTC in reply to "Fedora8"
ahmetaa Member since:
2005-07-06

The biggest problem I have with Java is it is specific to run an app with this release or version or something. From working with IBM blade centers they use Java for the management apps and they work about 1/2 the time. It is a real pain, you know if it worked and it did not require version 1.6.03 ect..... It is really a pain setting up Servers and trying to find the 'correct' version of Java on Sun's website. I am not sure if anyone else has had the pleasure of downloading the Enterprise versions but be prepared for lots of pain in searching their website.

From the way I understand and what I have heard the .NET developers are what is wanted more than Java devs anyways. Maybe it actually works without have to search Sun's website and pray you find the right version, that will work for the app that can't be upgraded because it will break ect... I am fed up with fooling with it, I wish they could standardize the dang thing.

honestly, i never had your issues. if you are one of the unlucky person have to deal with IBM webspehere, that is another issue. Also what you "heard" is not really true

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Fedora8
by RHCE07 on Fri 15th Feb 2008 00:58 UTC in reply to "RE: Fedora8"
RHCE07 Member since:
2007-12-08

honestly, i never had your issues. if you are one of the unlucky person have to deal with IBM webspehere, that is another issue. Also what you "heard" is not really true


So what you are saying because you said so that makes it not true.

I guess if the sun comes up when you see it then it is true, if I seen it this becomes false???

Whatever, I do not believe you have worked with anything except lying...

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: Fedora8
by ahmetaa on Fri 15th Feb 2008 12:37 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Fedora8"
ahmetaa Member since:
2005-07-06

i have been working with real life projects in the last 5 years all involved with java in server and client side (mostly server tough) i never had any serious problem with Sun's java. we used different operating systems, different IDE's, deployed in various operating systems. i am not saying it was without issues, but no show stoppers. claiming somebody as liar is very condescending, because i hate liars. Maybe you can be nice to explain one of your issues with Java instead.
Also, i follow the market trend for developer resources, i know for a fact that Java is still the most used and sought technology.

Edited 2008-02-15 12:46 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Fedora8
by rabid on Fri 15th Feb 2008 05:18 UTC in reply to "Fedora8"
rabid Member since:
2006-08-30

Don't count on hearsay. Java's still top dawg:
http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm

And I know of three large companies in Iowa that are trying to get off Websphere and onto open source. IBM's tools are buggy, which is funny because Eclipse by itself is darn solid, and an awesome development platform.

If you wanna learn another language though, don't let the market stop you.

Reply Score: 1

Great Work but ...
by ashcrow on Thu 14th Feb 2008 04:12 UTC
ashcrow
Member since:
2008-02-02

It's great work ... but it amazes me how long it took to get to the point of truly open jdk. I'm also a bit surprised people are motivated to do the work .... like a lot of developers I have not written Java in quite some time! Back in the glory days I remember being excited about Kaffee :-).

Reply Score: 3

RE: Great Work but ...
by sbergman27 on Thu 14th Feb 2008 04:29 UTC in reply to "Great Work but ..."
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

It's great work ... but it amazes me how long it took to get to the point of truly open jdk. I'm also a bit surprised people are motivated to do the work .... like a lot of developers I have not written Java in quite some time! Back in the glory days I remember being excited about Kaffee :-).


This is not entirely an appropriate comment. But I can't help but being reminded of a thought that crosses my mind from time to time:

Open Source is where dying companies go to die.

By that I certainly don't mean that adopting an OSS strategy is a bad idea. But it seems to me that companies really have to be backed into a corner to see that. And by the time they do, they are in bad enough shape that the news stories are all about "Can Linux save Zombie, Inc.?" And, of course, they've waited too long and the cancer was too advanced for OSS to help.

But in this case, I think that the patient might live. Sun is alive and kicking and making some solid decisions.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Great Work but ...
by fithisux on Thu 14th Feb 2008 15:02 UTC in reply to "Great Work but ..."
fithisux Member since:
2006-01-22

Please don't forget jamvm and cacaojvm. Both are quite impressive in terms of performance and I use them extensively.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Great Work but ...
by Sodki on Thu 14th Feb 2008 15:48 UTC in reply to "RE: Great Work but ..."
Sodki Member since:
2005-11-10

The problem has never been Free Java virtual machines, but Free Java classes. Project GNU Classpath is the original hero in this story. I'm excited about this because Java has always been a pain on platforms not supported by Sun. The whole "compile once, run anywhere" mantra was totally bullcrap.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Great Work but ...
by krausest on Fri 15th Feb 2008 18:05 UTC in reply to "RE: Great Work but ..."
krausest Member since:
2006-01-11

Regarding jamvm and cacaojvm: Do you have any performance figures to show? Last time I tried cacaojvm with e.g. scimark it was very, very far from being an alternative to the JVM from either Sun, IBM or Bea (or JET and GCJ).

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Great Work but ...
by fithisux on Sat 16th Feb 2008 09:18 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Great Work but ..."
fithisux Member since:
2006-01-22

Impressive in terms of what they have succeded. Not in terms of absolute performance. Sorry if I am not clear.

Reply Score: 1