Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 19th Feb 2008 13:42 UTC, submitted by Karl
Linux Already at their second beta release [German], Zebuntu is an Xfce-based Ubuntu distribution with heavy - you guessed it - Zeta influences. Bernd Korz explains the goals of Zebuntu in the project's announcement [German]: "Our goal is to use BlueEyedOS to offer a new platform for our former Zeta customers. In the future, Zeta, BeOS, as well as any future Haiku applications, will run natively on Zebuntu. This also offers a distinct advantage for developers for these platforms; they can use Zebuntu to develop for their platforms while utilising the performance and versatility of Linux." In other words, run BeOS applications on Linux. They have not forgotten about BFS support either. The project is, of course, completely open source. The website is only available in German for now, but Zebuntu developer Leszek Lesner confirmed to me that work is being done on an English variant (there already is an English development blog). Download the second beta from their download page, and, of course, see some screenshots.
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Adurbe
Member since:
2005-07-06

Zeta version

Reply Score: 8

Re: Zeta on Linux
by mind!dagger on Tue 19th Feb 2008 14:18 UTC
mind!dagger
Member since:
2007-06-26

Good luck.

Reply Score: 2

Flash screenshots?
by Sodki on Tue 19th Feb 2008 14:28 UTC
Sodki
Member since:
2005-11-10

Why would someone use Flash to show some simple screenshots? Now I can't see them, nor can anyone using only Free Software.

Reply Score: 19

RE: Flash screenshots?
by Leszek Lesner on Tue 19th Feb 2008 14:35 UTC in reply to "Flash screenshots?"
Leszek Lesner Member since:
2007-04-08

Gnash will work fine.

If not try the gallery on the dev.-blog ( http://dev.zebuntu.com )

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: Flash screenshots?
by Beta on Tue 19th Feb 2008 15:03 UTC in reply to "RE: Flash screenshots?"
Beta Member since:
2005-07-06

Gnash doesn’t work fine with it for me, I see the load screen and nothing more.

Not sure why they wouldn’t just link to real images, like most of the Internet does.

Reply Score: 13

RE[3]: Flash screenshots?
by J. M. on Tue 19th Feb 2008 23:53 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Flash screenshots?"
J. M. Member since:
2005-07-24

Especially when it deals with an exotic operating system. I could perhaps understand it if it was some Windows-only website, but not in this case.

Reply Score: 4

I'm really skeptical about this.
by SReilly on Tue 19th Feb 2008 14:31 UTC
SReilly
Member since:
2006-12-28

The last time Bernd got his greasy mitts on something, he ended up screwing up bad. I'm sure I don't need to go into the whole mess that was Zeta to anybody else interested in BeOS.

Granted, it's open source so he can hardly be accused of the same copyright infringements. Still, I'll believe it when I see it.

What I don't get is why he doesn't get on board with the Haiku development process and actually help get the real show on the road!

Reply Score: 12

Valhalla Member since:
2006-01-24

I thought that if ever Bernd were to dip his fingers in the Beos world again it would be through Haiku, or perhaps more likely 'Zaiku' ;)

still, the idea of being able to develop for Haiku/Beos on the linux platform is pretty nice, however my guess is Haiku will be a pretty stable development platform long before this compability layer is done.

Reply Score: 3

SReilly Member since:
2006-12-28

I'm hoping your right. The only thing is it seems BlueEyedOS, which had/has quite a bit of development behind it, is being used as the basis for the compatibility layer. If the code 'inherited' from BYOS is enough to get this show on the road, we may see Bernd rise again.

I know which of the two I'd rather see.

Reply Score: 2

yahya Member since:
2007-03-29


still, the idea of being able to develop for Haiku/Beos on the linux platform is pretty nice, however my guess is Haiku will be a pretty stable development platform long before this compability layer is done.


Your comment implies that you believe that it will eventually be done. I honestly don't believe so. The one art in which Bernd Korz is a master is that of making colorful announcements. I wouldn't believe anything he announces, before having verified myself that it actually exists.

I would also see little benefits from this compatiblity layer. Compared to Unix or GNU/Linux, there are so few state-of-the-art apps for BeOS that a Linux compatibility layer for BeOS would make much more sense than the other way round. Further, running BeOS apps on top of a Unix desktop like XFCE is exactly the opposite of the consistency and elegance that BeOS stood for.

Finally, the German announcement is full of the same old ugly marketspeak. They hail themselves for the ability of handling MS Office file formats through OpenOffice and further they announce that they are having an Outlook-like application (Kontact), that they have an MS Windows compatiblity layer (wine) and so forth. Well, that's really laughable. I mean, this is what definitely every distro has.

Edited 2008-02-20 12:33 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Phloptical Member since:
2006-10-10

I don't think those at Haiku would want this guy anywhere near their code given the allegations and brouhaha surrounding Zeta. In fact, I'd say it would be better for Haiku if this guy forgot BeOS ever existed altogether.

Reply Score: 4

Source Code?
by KugelKurt on Tue 19th Feb 2008 14:34 UTC
KugelKurt
Member since:
2005-07-06

I browsed the site yesterday and I didn't find a way to download the sources. I hope for them that the sources are inside the DVD image. If they are not, Bernd continues his legally dubious tactics (after all ACCESS said yellowTab never licensed the BeOS sources for Zeta).

Reply Score: 4

RE: Source Code?
by Leszek Lesner on Tue 19th Feb 2008 14:36 UTC in reply to "Source Code?"
Leszek Lesner Member since:
2007-04-08

Sources are included on DVD or can be downloaded via apt-get source packagename.

Reply Score: 3

The Bernt
by 10wattmindtrip on Tue 19th Feb 2008 15:01 UTC
10wattmindtrip
Member since:
2007-04-01

I just do not trust this guy. Granted, he's starting over again with the right thought: OSS. However, mark my words: He will do 'something' to strike doubt in peoples eyes again.

I say leave it Haiku to bring back the BeOS spark. They seem to have it right. This guy is just beating the whole BeOS thing to a pulp.

Reply Score: 7

RE: The Bernt
by Leszek Lesner on Tue 19th Feb 2008 15:05 UTC in reply to "The Bernt"
Leszek Lesner Member since:
2007-04-08

Haiku is far beyond to be ready this or the next 2 years.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: The Bernt
by 10wattmindtrip on Tue 19th Feb 2008 15:12 UTC in reply to "RE: The Bernt"
10wattmindtrip Member since:
2007-04-01

Bernd just doesn't have what it takes. Maybe Haiku won't be done for another 2 years. So what? At least they have the right ideas. And who knows, maybe more will get involved with Haiku with more publicity.

I don't know..I don't like this Zebuntu idea. Maybe I'm just not able to let go of BeOS. No.. That's not it.. I just don't like 'The Bernt".

Reply Score: 6

RE[3]: The Bernt
by Leszek Lesner on Tue 19th Feb 2008 15:20 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: The Bernt"
Leszek Lesner Member since:
2007-04-08

There is no "TheBernt" Code" included that will bite you ;)

Lets give it at least a try ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: The Bernt
by 10wattmindtrip on Tue 19th Feb 2008 15:32 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: The Bernt"
10wattmindtrip Member since:
2007-04-01

Indeed, you're right. I will dip my eyes in the water for a while to test it. I'm a huge fan of OSS so I try almost everything.
But .. Linux .. BeOS? ... ehhhhh, dunno dude.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: The Bernt
by KugelKurt on Tue 19th Feb 2008 17:51 UTC in reply to "RE: The Bernt"
KugelKurt Member since:
2005-07-06

Haiku is far beyond to be ready this or the next 2 years.

That may be true, but Linux distros don't have "the BeOS spark".
BeOS is small, fast, and consistent.

You, OTOH, mix XFCE (uses GTK) with its HIGs together with OpenOffice (uses VCL with a GTK wrapper, but has different HIGs or some may say OO has no HIGs at all), Kontact (Qt app with KDE HIGs), and in the future also Haiku/BeOS apps (BlueEyedOS toolkit).

Not only does mixing all those toolkits waste lots of RAM, it also makes the OS inconsistent. Zebuntu is yet another Linux distro that's going to have limited BeOS compatibility in the future. Not that being "yet another Linux distro" is bad (Ubuntu itself started as one), but it does not and will not have the BeOS spirit.

Edited 2008-02-19 17:52 UTC

Reply Score: 7

RE[3]: The Bernt
by schattenmann on Tue 19th Feb 2008 18:05 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: The Bernt"
schattenmann Member since:
2006-02-09

You, OTOH, mix XFCE (uses GTK) with its HIGs together with OpenOffice (uses VCL with a GTK wrapper, but has different HIGs or some may say OO has no HIGs at all), Kontact (Qt app with KDE HIGs), and in the future also Haiku/BeOS apps (BlueEyedOS toolkit)

You´re right. It seems that this was fixed in upcomming Beta 3.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: The Bernt
by KugelKurt on Tue 19th Feb 2008 22:37 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: The Bernt"
KugelKurt Member since:
2005-07-06

They replaced Qt with GTK. That's one step towards consistency and less RAM useage, but BlueEyed is still going to be included and OpenOffice and other GTK apps still clash when it comes to HIGs. OpenOffice is also not as "snappy" as typical BeOS apps. Zebuntu, as it currently stands, is just a relabeled Xubuntu. It has nothing to do with BeOS experience.
Personally, if I was going to try to mimic BeOS using a Linux distro, I'd use KDE 4 as foundation. KDE is more modular than most GTK/GNOME apps. Just compare KOffice to OpenOffice or Kontact to Evolution. Custom app launchers are also easier with Plasma.
I'm not saying that Zebuntu should switch to Qt/KDE, because if it did, it was nothing more than a relabeled Kubuntu.

I don't have anything against Linux at all. I use it on my PC as main OS. It's great, but it's not BeOS. It's different. And with all those distributions out there, desktop Linux is almost always a similar experience (not including really exotic WMs like RatPoison or Ion).

If Berd wants to become a Linux distributor, fine. But then he shouldn't tell potential users that he's recreating the BeOS experience, because he isn't. He can't. It's just impossible to do by reskinning Xubuntu.
If he is serious about recreating the BeOS experience, he should support Haiku and help make Haiku 1.0 reality sooner. He seems to have lots of money anyway (he had two financial disasters with InsideBeOS and Zeta and still continues to employ people), so why not employ some Haiku developers full time?

Edited 2008-02-19 22:41 UTC

Reply Score: 7

RE[5]: The Bernt
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 19th Feb 2008 22:39 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: The Bernt"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

If he is serious about recreating the BeOS experience, he should support Haiku and help make Haiku 1.0 reality sooner. He seems to have lots of money anyway (he had two financial disasters with InsideBeOS and Zeta), so why not employ some Haiku developers full time?


You don't spend a lot of time in the Haiku community, do you?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: The Bernt
by emerson999 on Wed 20th Feb 2008 01:09 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: The Bernt"
emerson999 Member since:
2007-12-08

The ambitious way to get by that would be to get developers to go through apps, one by one, and modify the gui to conform to beos. Then just let packages into the apt repository one by one when finished. It's a big job, but not so huge a one that I couldn't see a few full time developers able to chug through the majority in a month or so. Getting the changes merged back into the normal codebase as a configuration option on the other hand would be more of a pain.

Reply Score: 1

RE: The Bernt
by Luposian on Tue 19th Feb 2008 17:52 UTC in reply to "The Bernt"
Luposian Member since:
2005-07-27

I just do not trust this guy. Granted, he's starting over again with the right thought: OSS. However, mark my words: He will do 'something' to strike doubt in peoples eyes again.

I say leave it Haiku to bring back the BeOS spark. They seem to have it right. This guy is just beating the whole BeOS thing to a pulp.


I agree 100%. Which is why I am extremely glad he isn't touching Haiku at all. He'd either fragment the user base, or take credit for something he hadn't done or something bad. He's bad news one way or another... just watch.

Of course, the question is... how does he plan to get revenue out of this "Zebuntu" distro? Tech support? Zebuntu CD/DVD sales? Extra apps?

Knowing what it's about and who is behind it, I wouldn't touch Zebuntu with a 100ft pole, personally.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: The Bernt
by Leszek Lesner on Tue 19th Feb 2008 17:59 UTC in reply to "RE: The Bernt"
Leszek Lesner Member since:
2007-04-08

Zebuntu itself will be avaiable for free download for ever.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: The Bernt
by KugelKurt on Tue 19th Feb 2008 22:53 UTC in reply to "RE: The Bernt"
KugelKurt Member since:
2005-07-06

I am extremely glad he isn't touching Haiku at all. He'd either fragment the user base, or take credit for something he hadn't done or something bad.

No matter if it's Linux or Haiku: As long as he and his team contribute modified sources back to the community under its original license (eg. not releasing changes to Haiku's MIT licensed code under GPL), then why not?

Reply Score: 2

RE:
by Yomama on Tue 19th Feb 2008 15:05 UTC
Yomama
Member since:
2005-07-21

Another distro with a Zeta theme. What strikes me is that "ZEBUNTU SAGT GUTEN TAG" http://zebuntu.com/downloads/25-das-projekt/46-zebuntu-sagt-qguten-... is written by "Bernd Korz" .

No, thank you.

Reply Score: 5

Comment by zizban
by zizban on Tue 19th Feb 2008 15:06 UTC
zizban
Member since:
2005-07-06

Hey, give them the benefit of the doubt.

It looks good, so far, nice job with the BeOS look within xfce.

I'll try it when it's in English.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by zizban
by Leszek Lesner on Tue 19th Feb 2008 15:09 UTC in reply to "Comment by zizban"
Leszek Lesner Member since:
2007-04-08

Zebuntu includes english and german language pack.

Edited 2008-02-19 15:13 UTC

Reply Score: 3

hmmm .... just another Ubuntu derivate
by searly on Tue 19th Feb 2008 15:06 UTC
searly
Member since:
2006-02-27

So let me get this straight ... this is just another Ubuntu Derivate based on XFCE with a look and feel of the old Zeta / BeOS, etc ... what is so great about that?

Reply Score: 3

zizban Member since:
2005-07-06

Some people like the idea of this.

People need to give Bernd some slack. Why? No court has ruled against him, or Zeta, regarding legality, ever.

There is considerable doubt but no judgement.

Reply Score: 5

schattenmann Member since:
2006-02-09

nothing, if you are not interested in having an ubuntu running that looks a little bit like Zeta.

Reply Score: 2

merkoth Member since:
2006-09-22

nothing, if you are not interested in having an ubuntu running that looks a little bit like Zeta.


Actually, if they're really going to use BlueEyedOS as a base then you should be able to recompile your BeOS app without source modifications. That's way more then just "a Zeta look". Strangely enough, I was pretty sure that project was long dead.

Reply Score: 4

stew Member since:
2005-07-06

Strangely enough, I was pretty sure that project was long dead.

It's under the LGPL, so anyone is free to pick it up and continue working on it. I'm happy about it, B.E.OS was a good project.

Reply Score: 2

robertojdohnert Member since:
2005-07-12

BeOS had such a great user interface, lightweight and fast XFCE was a superb choice because of the customization ability of the DE and the fact it is as light weight brings it on par with what tracker was. I agree with that statement. For right now I can only see this as a way for people who have old BeOS apps they want to run. On the other hand we havent seen any BeOS apps running on Zebuntu so this may be another Bernd blowing smoke. Im a little skeptical but as a BeOS fan its hard not to get excited. We will see if this is for real or just another skinned 'buntu.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by zizban
by zizban on Tue 19th Feb 2008 15:39 UTC
zizban
Member since:
2005-07-06

I just tried it.

Nice job at the BeOS look and feel. It's not perfect but it's pretty spiffy. Nice to see things where you'd expect them to be.

I don't like those shiny YelloTab/Zeta colors...I'd like to be to use R5 colors as well.

I give it a B+

Reply Score: 5

Too many Buntus
by gogglesguy on Tue 19th Feb 2008 16:03 UTC
gogglesguy
Member since:
2007-08-10

Can someone explain why every little variation of used packages (desktops, themes, applications) needs to be a separate "ubuntu" distribution. How about a Opera based Ubuntu ("Obuntu") distribution, in which FireFox is replaced by Opera. Or a xine based Ubuntu distro (XineBuntu), instead of gstreamer?

Reply Score: 4

RE: Too many Buntus
by Leszek Lesner on Tue 19th Feb 2008 16:07 UTC in reply to "Too many Buntus"
Leszek Lesner Member since:
2007-04-08

Because people want a familiar OS look and feel and they don't want to get this all manually.

Edited 2008-02-19 16:07 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Too many Buntus
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 19th Feb 2008 16:09 UTC in reply to "Too many Buntus"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Can someone explain why every little variation of used packages (desktops, themes, applications) needs to be a separate "ubuntu" distribution. How about a Opera based Ubuntu ("Obuntu") distribution, in which FireFox is replaced by Opera. Or a xine based Ubuntu distro (XineBuntu), instead of gstreamer?


You failed your reading classes, didn't you?

They are aiming for a compatibility layer for BeOS applications on Linux. Not just a theme.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Too many Buntus
by gogglesguy on Tue 19th Feb 2008 16:16 UTC in reply to "RE: Too many Buntus"
gogglesguy Member since:
2007-08-10


You failed your reading classes, didn't you?
They are aiming for a compatibility layer for BeOS applications on Linux. Not just a theme.


Mine was more a general comment on the whole "Create your own Ubuntu distribution" attitude. A lot of these things can just be added as additional packages. Including a compatibility layer for BeOS applications.

Reply Score: 8

RE[2]: Too many Buntus
by yahya on Wed 20th Feb 2008 23:55 UTC in reply to "RE: Too many Buntus"
yahya Member since:
2007-03-29

"Can someone explain why every little variation of used packages (desktops, themes, applications) needs to be a separate "ubuntu" distribution. How about a Opera based Ubuntu ("Obuntu") distribution, in which FireFox is replaced by Opera. Or a xine based Ubuntu distro (XineBuntu), instead of gstreamer?


You failed your reading classes, didn't you?

They are aiming for a compatibility layer for BeOS applications on Linux. Not just a theme.
"

... which still doesn't warrant yet another Ubuntu derivate. Wine is just normal Debian package, like 19,000 others. A BeOS compatibility layer (if it would ever materialise, which I doubt it will, given Bernd's track record) would be the same, if you have a sensibly packaging strategy.

If they would offer their work in form of an add-on Debian package repository, as many other third-party software providers do, with a "zebuntu" metapackage, which depends on all the components, I would be tempted to try it out. Not so if I need to install yet another copy of the operating system just to switch the theme.

Additionally, by forking Ubuntu, they take onto themselves the responsibility for maintaining an entire distribution, including timely security updates, something which else would be provided by the Ubuntu team. I don't believe that the two people behind zebuntu would be up to this huge challenge.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Too many Buntus
by merkoth on Tue 19th Feb 2008 16:14 UTC in reply to "Too many Buntus"
merkoth Member since:
2006-09-22

Can someone explain why every little variation of used packages (desktops, themes, applications) needs to be a separate "ubuntu" distribution. How about a Opera based Ubuntu ("Obuntu") distribution, in which FireFox is replaced by Opera. Or a xine based Ubuntu distro (XineBuntu), instead of gstreamer?


For example, if I want an XFCE-based Ubuntu, would I rather download the xubuntu-desktop metapackage and then uninstall the GNOME packages or just download and install a premade Xubuntu iso? Sure, your examples would be pretty stupìd distros for sure, but it's not the case. Zebuntu is supposed to not only look different but also provide certain degree of campatibility with the original BeOS, everything as a one-stop solution. You can't tell your Zeta customers "to download and install this Ubuntu Linux thing, open a shell and run sudo apt-get install zebuntu-desktop zebuntu-compat". It's just an example, don't try this at home ;)

Reply Score: 5

RE: Too many Buntus
by nelvana2005 on Tue 19th Feb 2008 16:19 UTC in reply to "Too many Buntus"
nelvana2005 Member since:
2005-07-29

Please pay attention to Canonical's rules referring to the use of the Ubuntu/*buntu trademark(s):

http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy

If an Ubuntu-derived distribution would be more than just an Ubuntu with a little variation of a few "peripheral" packages, it could not be called *buntu.

And, please, give Leszek a chance. He seems to be the "head" behind Zebuntu.

Reply Score: 2

yet another useless linux distro
by casuto on Tue 19th Feb 2008 16:30 UTC
casuto
Member since:
2007-02-27

yet another useless linux distro

Reply Score: 2

BlueEyedOS
by stew on Tue 19th Feb 2008 17:54 UTC
stew
Member since:
2005-07-06

So just to get this right - this is based on the BlueEyedOS source code? I could not find this verified on the web page (and the ISO is still downloading).

If yes, it's a good thing. This would give us a system that for the most part looks and feels like BeOS, but allows to use the wealth of Linux drivers that Haiku unfortunately does not have access to. With all due respect to the Haiku developers, I'm not expecting full OpenGL with hardware support for shaders or WPA2 for exotic PCMCIA cards soon - this project however will have it.

Reply Score: 4

Integration
by hornett on Tue 19th Feb 2008 17:57 UTC
hornett
Member since:
2005-09-19

Is anything going to be done to make the GTK/Linux + BeOS environments work together well?

For instance, will they patch the file browsers to be the same for BeOS and GTK apps, will you be able to drag and drop from one to the other and will they both be able to use the same file system layout?

Looks like it could become a very interesting project though..!

Reply Score: 1

Zebuntu = Community Project
by Leszek Lesner on Tue 19th Feb 2008 18:13 UTC
Leszek Lesner
Member since:
2007-04-08

Zebuntu is an OpenSource Project with an democratic leadership by the ones who work on it.
So there is the possibility to join us, help us and even participate and influence the future of Zebuntu.

One example :
Mixing KDE/QT and Gnome/GTK Apps together was criticized by community members and helpers.
Now in Beta 3 we deleted all KDE packages to have an clean and faster "GTK only" Desktop.
OpenOffice is for now the slowest package thats true, but it is the most powerful aswell and we working hard to get it faster and less memory intensive.

more on Beta 3 + some Screenshots:
http://dev.zebuntu.com

Reply Score: 7

Ehhh...
by miqlas on Tue 19th Feb 2008 18:26 UTC
miqlas
Member since:
2008-02-19

Please Bernd don't do that with the BeOS/Haiku community. Be happy that ACCESS hasn't sued you. Leave us f*cking alone and get an other toy to screw up.
Thanks in advance :p

"I just do not trust this guy." Correct.

[miqlas]

Reply Score: 1

v RE: Ehhh...
by Tanner on Tue 19th Feb 2008 18:38 UTC in reply to "Ehhh..."
RE[2]: Ehhh...
by headispropeller on Tue 19th Feb 2008 19:00 UTC in reply to "RE: Ehhh..."
headispropeller Member since:
2008-02-19

And in what EXACTLY should we don´t trust? This is Ubuntu based Open Sourced Linux distro and it´s downloadable for free.If you have personal problems with other people, get some professional help to get over it.

Reply Score: 4

Bernd for President!
by miqlas on Tue 19th Feb 2008 19:26 UTC
miqlas
Member since:
2008-02-19

Yeah, I agree that Ubuntu's free and open source but it's bound by licenses. Will Mr. Korz comply these licenses? History says no ... He has already violated the Ubuntu license by using the Ubuntu name. Maybe does he have a permission from Canonical? I don't think so ...
This behaviour is shame for the community ;) Go away, Bernd!!!

Reply Score: 1

RE: Bernd for President!
by Leszek Lesner on Tue 19th Feb 2008 19:35 UTC in reply to "Bernd for President!"
Leszek Lesner Member since:
2007-04-08

miqlas go away for yourself if you don't know anything.

We never ever violeted any trademarks from canonical.

Please read it for yourself:
http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy

Especially the Permitted Use and "Derived Works" Section.

Leave Bernd out of this. If you have some problems with him its your problem.
We just want to create a Operating System that looks and behaves like our beloved BeOS/ZETA.

Edited 2008-02-19 19:40 UTC

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: Bernd for President!
by fithisux on Tue 19th Feb 2008 20:09 UTC in reply to "RE: Bernd for President!"
fithisux Member since:
2006-01-22

If blueeyed os can work on it it can be a great platform to develop Haiku software and put it back to haiku when it is finished. I would appreciate if Bernd and his coworkers can contribute to Haiku or even open source their additions to Zeta.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Bernd for President!
by r_a_trip on Tue 19th Feb 2008 21:06 UTC in reply to "RE: Bernd for President!"
r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

Snip:

Therefore, if you are creating a derivative of Ubuntu, you may use the Trademarks in association with the software product provided:

* the changes are minimal and unsubstantial, as described above

* there is no commercial intent associated with the new product

* the Trademark is used in a way that makes it clear that your project is a development effort related to the Ubuntu source, but that the software you are working upon is not in fact Ubuntu as distributed by the Ubuntu project. The approved naming scheme to facilitate this is through designation “Remix”. For instance, a new ISO image which has been packaged special tools for software developers could be called “Ubuntu, Developers Remix”, or an image was has been created with Thai language packs could be called "Ubuntu Thai Remix". Words such as "Edition" and "Version" should be avoided, as they have specific meaning within the Ubuntu project. Prefixes, such as “ThaiBuntu” should also be avoided. Any other naming scheme will require explicit permission.

* there is no suggestion (through words or appearance) that your project is approved, sponsored, or affiliated with Ubuntu or its related projects unless it has been approved by and is governed by the Ubuntu Community Council.
[/i]

So apart from the (violated?) minimal changes clause, why is it called Zebuntu and not Ubuntu Zeta Remix?

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Bernd for President!
by zizban on Tue 19th Feb 2008 23:55 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Bernd for President!"
zizban Member since:
2005-07-06

Man, you need to relax. In all seriousness, if this wasn't Beos-ish and have Bernd involved, you wouldn't care. You have an axe to grind, grind it elsewhere.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Bernd for President!
by pepa on Wed 20th Feb 2008 06:57 UTC in reply to "RE: Bernd for President!"
pepa Member since:
2005-07-08

I would think this applies:

If you are producing a new product which is based on Ubuntu but which has more substantial changes than those described above as a Remix, you are allowed to state (and we would encourage you to do so) that your product is "derived from Ubuntu", "based on Ubuntu", or "a derivative of Ubuntu" but you may not use the Trademarks to refer to your product. In some cases you may be allowed to use the Trademarks, but we'll need to discuss that. In that event, these products will need a trademark license, and such a license can be revoked if the nature of your divergence from Ubuntu changes.

Reply Score: 2

I was wondering what became of BlueEyedOS
by Syphadias on Tue 19th Feb 2008 19:37 UTC
Syphadias
Member since:
2008-02-16

Not sure this hold the same promise as the Haiku project, none the less it is BeOS related so it's good to hear that it's being done.

Reply Score: 1

Interesting Distro
by Big Al on Tue 19th Feb 2008 19:44 UTC
Big Al
Member since:
2005-06-29

Just yesterday I was playing around with Fedora and Unbuntu in VMWare Fusion and although Ubuntu worked well (I had problems with Fedora) they just didn't excite me. Same ol' Linux distro but apart from the free source I didn't see much to offer over OS X. I do a bit of media work, and I really appreciate the tight integration of everything in OS X (coming from the BeOS world this is no surprise).

Having downloaded Beta 2 (and waiting for Beta 3), I have to say this looks like a nice distro. I did have an issue with the deskbar and dock disappearing (permanently) so it's not quite there yet, but it seemed like a well-put together distribution so far.

What excites me about Zebuntu, though, is that you can have WINE installed, run Windows, Linux and hopefully BeOS apps pretty seamlessly. Don't forget that Bernd has access (not sure about the legality of it) for some video editing apps on Zeta and a few other programs that would be nice to have ported over to run on a Linux distribution.

All things being equal, it's nice to see someone trying something new with Linux instead of making it "just another distribution". Could be something different, which is sorely missing from computing these days.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Interesting Distro
by schattenmann on Tue 19th Feb 2008 19:52 UTC in reply to "Interesting Distro"
schattenmann Member since:
2006-02-09

It also reminds me on some other distros like Dreamlinux (www.dreamlinux.com.br), those guy do an incredible job in adding some MacOS X flavour to Linux.

I can´t see any negative in trying to tweak a great distro like Ubuntu in a way some people enjoy it more than the original.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Interesting Distro
by Big Al on Tue 19th Feb 2008 20:09 UTC in reply to "RE: Interesting Distro"
Big Al Member since:
2005-06-29

Downloading it now... interesting distribution indeed! ;)

Reply Score: 2

Sorry.
by miqlas on Tue 19th Feb 2008 19:58 UTC
miqlas
Member since:
2008-02-19

Sorry Leszek Lesner. You have right.

Goodbye.

Reply Score: 0

Comment by Leszek Lesner
by Leszek Lesner on Tue 19th Feb 2008 21:48 UTC
Leszek Lesner
Member since:
2007-04-08

It is called so because we decided to have a mixture name Zeta + Ubuntu = Zebuntu

I think we have no problem in changing the name if it is necessary.

Reply Score: 1

Good for them!
by darkwyrm on Tue 19th Feb 2008 21:52 UTC
darkwyrm
Member since:
2006-03-15

Unlike many naysayers in this forum, I personally welcome the news. Don't get me wrong -- I'm 100% behind Haiku's efforts, but I fail to see how this could hurt BeOS in general. I'm typing this from a highly-customized Xfce environment, and a distro like this can (a) get more mindshare about BeOS, (b) advance Linux usability, (c) give Bernd a chance to redeem himself (yeah, I know, fat chance), and (d) give end-users a chance to try something BeOS-like with all the things that people have long complained that were missing, such as hw-accelerated OpenGL, better hardware support, eye candy, Java, and a lot of other things. Now don't get me wrong -- BeOS on top of Linux is still Linux, but it's better than nothing, too. Many people can't run BeOS or Zeta, but they could run this.

The best of luck to all involved.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Good for them!
by KugelKurt on Tue 19th Feb 2008 23:30 UTC in reply to "Good for them!"
KugelKurt Member since:
2005-07-06

I don't think that the majority of "naysayers" think that it hurts Haiku or BeOS, but we fail to see the point of Zebuntu. No, not that it's bad that he wants to revive the BlueEyed toolkit, but to maintain B.E. you don't need a whole Linux distro. You also don't need a whole distro for a theme that could as well just be submitted to http://www.xfce-look.org/

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Good for them!
by zizban on Tue 19th Feb 2008 23:53 UTC in reply to "RE: Good for them!"
zizban Member since:
2005-07-06

You fail to see the point, but others like the idea.

Reply Score: 2

Wrong focus?
by fernandotcl on Tue 19th Feb 2008 22:25 UTC
fernandotcl
Member since:
2007-08-12

The term "distribution" means you're distributing - not creating - software. Of course, stuff like Yast, Anaconda, Upstart, etc. was developed by distribution makers, but it's a different thing. Those programs were part of a greater project, they were created to solve issues found when integrating all the upstream packages together. They glued the parts of the system together.

Achieving BeOS/Haiku/Zeta compatibility is not a trivial feat. If the Zebuntu guys are going to develop technologies that allow you to run BeOS binaries on Linux, then perhaps they should focus first on implementing this compatibility and then create a distro to promote the technology or something like that.

Maintaining a *buntu distro is a lot of work, those guys are going to need to think about artwork and stuff like that. They shouldn't be worried about what wallpaper to distribute with Xfce, they should be taking a look at how they could implement this compatibility layer. You first work on the core stuff, and then when everything mostly works you can consider creating a shell for it and promoting it.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by JPisini
by JPisini on Tue 19th Feb 2008 23:12 UTC
JPisini
Member since:
2006-01-24

I am personally glad to see this project and want to thank all those involved. I love Linux and I love Beos and look forward to seeing how this grows.

Reply Score: 1

greenbuntu!
by renhoek on Tue 19th Feb 2008 23:58 UTC
renhoek
Member since:
2007-04-29

coming up next, greenbuntu! the ubuntu distro using a green background by default!

come on, why do we need so many distro's? and for everyone who says they need choice : we have only one kernel (linux) and one x server (xorg) and everyone seems completely happy with it.

maybe i'm just brainwashed by steve and bill, but for those people who enjoy it, have fun.

Reply Score: 2

RE: greenbuntu!
by deb2006 on Fri 22nd Feb 2008 12:22 UTC in reply to "greenbuntu!"
deb2006 Member since:
2006-06-26

coming up next, greenbuntu! the ubuntu distro using a green background by default! come on, why do we need so many distro's? and for everyone who says they need choice : we have only one kernel (linux) and one x server (xorg) and everyone seems completely happy with it. maybe i'm just brainwashed by steve and bill, but for those people who enjoy it, have fun.


It depends. IF there are enough people who have a demand for a distribution with a green wallpaper, fine. Otherwise noone will care.

There is not only one kernel. What we have is the kernel as released by the kernel developers at kernel.org. But then you have distributions such as Novell, Red Hat, Ubuntu, Debian, Mandriva etc. that patch the original kernel up to a certain degree. I think Slackware is probably the only distribution that takes the original kernel as is (well, more or less).

It's all about having fun, isn't it? ;) )))

Reply Score: 1

ZFS
by Babi Asu on Wed 20th Feb 2008 04:37 UTC
Babi Asu
Member since:
2006-02-11

I was thinking Zebuntu is Ubuntu with ZFS, but it just simply a theme?

Reply Score: 0

Just a Xubuntu with a Zeta theme
by plfiorini on Wed 20th Feb 2008 08:35 UTC
plfiorini
Member since:
2005-06-30

I don't see how this Zebuntu is based on BlueEyedOS code. At this time it's just a Xubuntu with a modified theme.
Not more, not less.

Reply Score: 1

schattenmann Member since:
2006-02-09

I think that´s why they say that their GOAL is to provide a B.E.OS-based Distro. There´s no statement that they´re already where they plan to go.

Reply Score: 1

plfiorini Member since:
2005-06-30

Uh! Ok maybe next time I will read better, sorry!

Anyway I welcome a new Linux system (built from Linux from scratch is better) using only BlueEyedOS. It can provide you the same look and feel of BeOS without the Haiku problems (no killer applications, not much applications, few drivers, very young and incomplete kernel, ...).

A Ubuntu with Xfce, a Zeta-inspired theme and the BlueEyedOS layer doesn't make much sense to me. It's not what you want from a BeOS-alike operating system.

The good news here is that Bernd changed his mind because if I remember well he did laugh at the idea of running the BeOS experience on the Linux kernel.

Reply Score: 1

steveh2005 Member since:
2007-06-28

All I know about Bernd is that he tried to make a commercial go at picking up where the BeOS left off and the market voted a "no" with their wallets. That's business. That's the way it goes.

If he wants to continue BeOS-type efforts, he would find the next-best effort with the Haiku group. However, it seems that Bernd wants to lead "something", and, in their group, he would have to follow. So it's probably not his cup of tea.

But still, I like the ZeBuntu Beta 2. If they got to the point where I could develop BeOS-interface apps on ZeBuntu, that could have some development-realted value to me for Haiku. One neat project would be to develop a BeOS Window Library for Mono on Linux without having to port Mono over to Haiku first.

Speaking of Mono, now THAT would be a worthy porting project to Haiku. It wouldn't take near the effort that that full-on Java port is going to take.

Reply Score: 1

Naysayer
by Tanner on Wed 20th Feb 2008 21:47 UTC
Tanner
Member since:
2005-07-06

As you can see:
"naysayers" (I've learnt a new english term today) have, on this topic, much more motivations and longer argumentations than other "oh yay, nice work, really impressive, this is good" people.

Lets face it: a monolithic kernel (Linux) with a "compatibility layer" for apps designed for Beos (known as the real multithreaded, C++ written, ultra lightweight and lightning fast OS). This smells like shit, and is a non-sense project for the Beos followers, Haiku fans..
Expecially now that Haiku is gaining momentum (you know, "now its self-hosting", R1 is near, and so on)


P.ierluigi F.iorini: hai visto che adesso anche quel pirla di Korz ha avuto la tua malsana idea di mescolare la cultura unix con l'innovazione e la gioventù di BeOS? Mi chiedo cosa avete nella zucca...
(sorry folks, i know this user.. do you remember "Mockup"?)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Naysayer
by Leszek Lesner on Wed 20th Feb 2008 22:04 UTC in reply to "Naysayer"
Leszek Lesner Member since:
2007-04-08

We are not in competition with Haiku here.
It is a completely other technology.

One of our intentions was to create a compatibility to use BeOS Applications on Linux OS.
On the other hand, there is also a chance for all those developers who want to program for haiku but can't because of issues in booting either Haiku or BeOS.
I know that it is possibile to create Haiku software under linux right know. But it is not possibile to test this software on linux. This is one interesting aspect I think.

My intention personaly was to create an Operating System that looks and feels some kind of my beloved OS BeOS/ZETA but has better hardware support and runs well on my hardware. And I wanted to share this distribution with every one that might think it is interesting. Nothing more nothing less.

Edited 2008-02-20 22:07 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Naysayer
by Tanner on Wed 20th Feb 2008 22:25 UTC in reply to "RE: Naysayer"
Tanner Member since:
2005-07-06

My intention personaly was to create an Operating System that looks and feels some kind of my beloved OS BeOS/ZETA but has better hardware support and runs well on my hardware. And I wanted to share this distribution with every one that might think it is interesting. Nothing more nothing less.


Ok, let's cooperate. ;)
Can you tell me why can't you test your software in Haiku right now? Because you cant boot Haiku yet? Wrong, you CAN boot Haiku in VMWARE, and with networking too!
I don't get the point of creating new stuff and complicated situations, when the right direction is clear and shiny like the sun...

Bear in mind that if you look at this ticket:
http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/1102
you will see that they already had an idea about running the haiku kernel on top of linux, as a separated process (aka. Virtual Kernel)
With this feature you can run BeOS applications under the Haiku kernel, which is executed under the Linux kernel.. with all the devices and drivers fully functional and supported.

As you can see, the points left to justify Zebuntu development are really a few.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Naysayer
by Leszek Lesner on Wed 20th Feb 2008 23:00 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Naysayer"
Leszek Lesner Member since:
2007-04-08

Thats very nice to hear about this
( http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/1102 )
I did not know this before.

Boot Haiku in VMWare is a nice idea. But it feels some kind of strange and runs too slow for me.
Don't get me wrong Haiku is and will become a great OS of that I am sure. And I personally will support it as far as I can. (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thQmHGeFb98 for example )
But I want an OS that I can run now and use for my everday useage. And exactly therefor I created Zebuntu.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by JPisini
by JPisini on Thu 21st Feb 2008 01:59 UTC
JPisini
Member since:
2006-01-24

Leszek Lesner Don't let the naysayers get you down if you enjoy doing this then do it. Thanks again from me I can't wait to try this out.

Reply Score: 1

Give it a shot
by DLazlo on Sat 23rd Feb 2008 06:18 UTC
DLazlo
Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm glad to see someone pick up the B.E.O.S. code again, but also think doing it as a 'distro' is biting off more than you need to. Work on the Blue Eyed code until it gets working good enough to where you need something that looks right around it. Up until then, it's realy just a pared down, themed Ubuntu.

I understand your wanting to run BeOS/Zeta on your newer hardware, but just be patient. Or do like I do. I have a dedicated x86 and Mac PowerPC, both cheap, and both MP with BeOS running well. With them networked to other boxes, I get things done wherever and however works best. No one tool or OS does it all.

Btw, congrats on Bernd's leaving. People distrust him for reasons of his own doing!

Reply Score: 1

Bernd and Zubuntu go separate ways
by nelvana2005 on Sun 24th Feb 2008 18:17 UTC
nelvana2005
Member since:
2005-07-29

On
http://dev.zebuntu.com/
you can read the following message:
"Bernd and the Zebuntu Team decided to go different ways. This has some consequences to Zebuntu.
(...)"
One consequence seems to be that "the development of the BeOS Compatibility Layer and integration is now frozen."

Reply Score: 1