Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 14th Mar 2008 21:56 UTC
Hardware, Embedded Systems Geek.com reviews the ThinkPad X300. "The ThinkPad X300 is an exercise in balance. It's designers were tasked with balancing performance and usability with size and weight and they did an excellent job."
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v Vista
by drynwhyl on Fri 14th Mar 2008 22:16 UTC
RE: Vista
by Kokopelli on Fri 14th Mar 2008 22:33 UTC in reply to "Vista"
Kokopelli Member since:
2005-07-06

The moment I saw the disgusting Vista sticker on it, I knew I dont need to have one, regardless of how the hardware performs.

Is it just me or did MS in the meantime really start to hurt hardware manufacturers by driving their sales down because of the mandated Vista on the hardware?


I think it is mostly you. If it makes you feel any better the X300 models on Lenovo's site come with XP Pro by default, not Vista. So you may be stuck with the sticker for as long as it takes you to peel it off but not with the OS.

Reply Score: 8

RE: Vista
by kaiwai on Sat 15th Mar 2008 01:14 UTC in reply to "Vista"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, not to be cynical, but one would assume if one went and purchased a Lenovo, they obviously like Windows. If they wanted something else, they can easily go out, download their favourite operating system - *BSD, Linux or Solaris/OpenSolaris and replace the pre-installed copy of Windows.

I really don't understand what the whining is all about; I love my Mac very much, but if all the software I wanted was on a non-Microsoft platform, I'd purchase the lenovo instantly. There are people who don't mind Windows Vista, and I don't know why people have come up with the doom and gloom just because of a rocky start when it was first released.

Reply Score: 7

RE[2]: Vista
by l3v1 on Sat 15th Mar 2008 14:08 UTC in reply to "RE: Vista"
l3v1 Member since:
2005-07-06

they obviously like Windows


Actually, I also don't understand the whining, since Thinkpads have always been the most easy to install and use Linux on, so that sticker shouldn't bother one much. I just find that 2.5k-3k price range [i.e. in USD, but it'll be ~2.5k-3k in euros too, as usual] a bit high.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Vista
by kaiwai on Sat 15th Mar 2008 15:34 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Vista"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

"they obviously like Windows


Actually, I also don't understand the whining, since Thinkpads have always been the most easy to install and use Linux on, so that sticker shouldn't bother one much. I just find that 2.5k-3k price range [i.e. in USD, but it'll be ~2.5k-3k in euros too, as usual] a bit high.
"

I just had a look at it in NZ$; its not too bad; I mean, when I look, my current laptop upgraded to 2gig, along with three years of Apple Care set me back NZ$2400 incl. GST, so the price of the lenovo isn't as far out of reach as say the Apple Air is.

Regarding 'they obviously like Windows' - one would assume if they were purchasing a PC laptop, they would be most likely end users who use Windows; sure, Thinkpad run various *NIX's nicely, but that isn't Lenvo's primary customer base. Their customer base is MBA wizkid with money to burn.

With that being said, it'll be interesting to see how the scene will look as KDE 4.x is ported to Solaris, and we start seeing greater usability focus by opensource programmers.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Vista
by Ford Prefect on Sat 15th Mar 2008 15:39 UTC in reply to "RE: Vista"
Ford Prefect Member since:
2006-01-16

If they wanted something else, they can easily go out, download their favourite operating system - *BSD, Linux or Solaris/OpenSolaris and replace the pre-installed copy of Windows.


Err... wait. And why do they need to pay a Windows license for it to be preinstalled and then replaced anyway in first place?

I will buy a Lenovo and just get lost of that sticker on it without complaining -- but regardless of that it really sucks that I *have* to buy Windows with it, although everybody knows the Linux compatibility and userbase of ThinkPads..

I see no reason to *not* complain about that!

Reply Score: 4

A very nice laptop
by irbis on Fri 14th Mar 2008 22:45 UTC
irbis
Member since:
2005-07-08

This is a good example of why I would probably buy a Lenovo laptop if I had to buy one. The structure does not emphasize fashionable design over sturdiness and usability. X300 is very portable at 13.3", yet has a good 1440×900 display. It has good battery life, and has both a trackpoint and a trackpad which is good as many people, including me, prefer trackpoint.

Edited 2008-03-14 22:46 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: A very nice laptop
by Doc Pain on Fri 14th Mar 2008 23:05 UTC in reply to "A very nice laptop"
Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

X300 is very portable at 13.3", yet has a good 1440×900 display. It has good battery life, and has both a trackpoint and a trackpad which is good as many people, including me, prefer trackpoint.


And if I see it correctly, it has three mouse buttons: a left one, a right one and - hooray - a middle one, neccessary for good usability on UNIX and Linux. :-) (And I do prefer the trackpoint since the days of the old IBM ThinkPads.)

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: A very nice laptop
by polaris20 on Mon 17th Mar 2008 14:01 UTC in reply to "RE: A very nice laptop"
polaris20 Member since:
2005-07-06

No, that's the scroll key. Holding it down and moving the eraser head scrolls the document you're on (or webpage). I love it!

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: A very nice laptop
by Doc Pain on Tue 18th Mar 2008 01:25 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: A very nice laptop"
Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

No, that's the scroll key. Holding it down and moving the eraser head scrolls the document you're on (or webpage). I love it!


Me too! :-) The behaviour you're describing (pressing middle mouse key, moving mouse in Y direction = vertical scroll) is something I really like about three button mice (Sun Type 6 mouse here); I don't like the wheel at all (too unhandy, too unprecise, and unhealthy for your fingers).

It should be possible to have the standard function of the middle mouse key (outputting selection buffer - "one button copy and paste") enabled with a tweak in mouse.c of the X server (I've tried this). Additionally, pressing both the left and the right key should emulate the middle one's functionality by default.

Reply Score: 2

I love Thinkpads...
by mikesname on Fri 14th Mar 2008 23:15 UTC
mikesname
Member since:
2005-10-01

Ah, god bless the trackpoint, I don't know what I'd do without them (be very clumsy I guess.) It's good to see Lenovo still making cool Thinkpads.

It does seem that this should be an extra-thin T-series rather than an X-series though - footprint wise it seems to be about the same as my old T30. I find that the smaller the footprint the less fragile laptops seem, so you're more inclined to use them out-and-about (and they fit into a smaller bag). I'd love an X61 for this reason, but since I'm poor I'm more likely to end up with an Eee or something, touchpad be damned.

Reply Score: 1

RE: I love Thinkpads...
by StephenBeDoper on Sat 15th Mar 2008 11:29 UTC in reply to "I love Thinkpads..."
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Used x40 Thinkpads on ebay go for about the same amount as a Eee. There are also stores online that specialize in used/older laptops - usually a bit more expensive than what you can find on ebay, but less risky (got mine "factory-refurbished" from a place called "thinkpadworld").

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: I love Thinkpads...
by StephenBeDoper on Sat 15th Mar 2008 19:49 UTC in reply to "RE: I love Thinkpads..."
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Bah, that should be "an Eee." Can't believe I missed that - not only does the next word *start* with a vowel, it's nothing *but* vowels.

Reply Score: 2

It's not Apple!
by bousozoku on Fri 14th Mar 2008 23:44 UTC
bousozoku
Member since:
2006-01-23

Nice to see something else, but especially since this machine has a higher density display, more USB ports, and inbuilt EV-DO. The last bit would save me another USB port.

I don't really care for an ultra-light or ultra-portable machine but this one is certainly appealing. The processor vs. battery tradeoff is the only thing that would bother me. You can carry another battery (with restrictions, right?) but you can't make the processor go faster.

If MacBook Air is selling out, the X300 should trounce it, except with the style-conscious.

Reply Score: 2

God help us
by Phloptical on Fri 14th Mar 2008 23:47 UTC
Phloptical
Member since:
2006-10-10

Once this thing gets out, it's going to spread like cancer amongst all the executive uppity-mucky-mucks in my company. Not that I'm complaining, because if the performance is there, I probably wouldn't mind having one too. Also, it would be a lot easier to administrate if we had a bunch of people using, not just the handful we have running on X60s and X61s now. That way, it wouldn't be such an oddball if I have to work on one.

Keep it up, Lenovo, I hope you keep the quality and service the same like it was from IBM. I'd hate to have to deal with HP.

Reply Score: 3

thinkpads freaking rocks!
by djames on Sat 15th Mar 2008 03:46 UTC
djames
Member since:
2006-04-18

I don't normally post messages unless 1) I'm trolling 2) I feel I have something important to contribute to the topic.

X300 is giving Lenovo good publicity - I think they deserve it. Many people for unknown reason believe Lenovo has trashed the Thinkpad models, they have no idea what they're talking about. If they do have a valid reason to trash Lenovo, it's related to customer service or receiving dead parts on delivery (blank screen, screwed up disk). But I have never had a problem with them.

I've bought an old T30 and it was built like a tank. I just bought a t60p, it is the best laptop I've owned...so far. I switched from a Macbook Pro and I'm not planning to go back to a Mac. Without Thinkpads I would still be on a Mac.

I just want to tell you all Thinkpads simply kicks @ss.

Reply Score: 5

RE: thinkpads freaking rocks!
by bousozoku on Sat 15th Mar 2008 16:36 UTC in reply to "thinkpads freaking rocks!"
bousozoku Member since:
2006-01-23

I don't normally post messages unless 1) I'm trolling 2) I feel I have something important to contribute to the topic.

X300 is giving Lenovo good publicity - I think they deserve it. Many people for unknown reason believe Lenovo has trashed the Thinkpad models, they have no idea what they're talking about. If they do have a valid reason to trash Lenovo, it's related to customer service or receiving dead parts on delivery (blank screen, screwed up disk). But I have never had a problem with them.

I've bought an old T30 and it was built like a tank. I just bought a t60p, it is the best laptop I've owned...so far. I switched from a Macbook Pro and I'm not planning to go back to a Mac. Without Thinkpads I would still be on a Mac.

I just want to tell you all Thinkpads simply kicks @ss.


Have things improved since IBM? I had bad experiences with IBM rushing products to market and having to go through 4 people for each problem to get the machine working properly. That's the main reason I wouldn't buy a ThinkPad.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: thinkpads freaking rocks!
by kwanbis on Mon 17th Mar 2008 04:03 UTC in reply to "RE: thinkpads freaking rocks!"
kwanbis Member since:
2005-07-06

Have things improved since IBM? I had bad experiences with IBM rushing products to market and having to go through 4 people for each problem to get the machine working properly. That's the main reason I wouldn't buy a ThinkPad.

I have had a 701C (butterfly, that still works), a 755, a 380ED, a 380XD, a 600, a T40, a T41 a T60, and a Z61.

I have never had any issues, but expected ones, like keyboards wearing out after 4 years of heavy use.

I have never had any "rushed-to-market" issues.

Edited 2008-03-17 04:04 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Docking Station?
by B. Janssen on Sat 15th Mar 2008 14:41 UTC
B. Janssen
Member since:
2006-10-11

I'm under the impression that the X300 has no docking station connector. I hope, I'm wrong.

Reply Score: 2

Overpriced
by cmost on Sat 15th Mar 2008 17:17 UTC
cmost
Member since:
2006-07-16

This is an overpriced designer laptop created for business types who have more money than brains. People who think something is better because it costs more. I can get a laptop from Tigerdirect or even an electronics store that does everything this one does for a fraction of its cost. Sure, people will point out that my warranty isn't as good or the reliability isn't on par blah blah blah. It's a computer folks; it's obsolete the minute you purchase it. The bottom line is that I don't need a Bentley where a Chevy will do just fine.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Overpriced
by h3rman on Sat 15th Mar 2008 17:28 UTC in reply to "Overpriced"
h3rman Member since:
2006-08-09

This is an overpriced designer laptop created for business types who have more money than brains.


Sorry, you clicked on the wrong link. Being discussed here is the Thinkpad X300, not the Macbook Air. ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE: Overpriced
by StephenBeDoper on Sat 15th Mar 2008 19:53 UTC in reply to "Overpriced"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

I can get a laptop from Tigerdirect or even an electronics store that does everything this one does for a fraction of its cost.


And, to paraphrase Douglas Adams' comment on the first Mac "portable", that laptop you refer to will also make a great surface to eat sandwiches on - since it will be slightly lighter than carrying around a table.

Reply Score: 2

Design
by arokh on Sat 15th Mar 2008 18:15 UTC
arokh
Member since:
2008-01-29

It's 2008, why does Thinkpads still have the same _horrible_ design as in 1995?

http://www.umcrookston.edu/helpdesk/images/NotebookPhotos/380XDBric...

I know, design isn't the most important aspect of a laptop, but that doesn't mean it should be completely ignored.

Reply Score: 0

RE: Design
by Bit_Rapist on Sat 15th Mar 2008 18:40 UTC in reply to "Design"
Bit_Rapist Member since:
2005-11-13

It's 2008, why does Thinkpads still have the same _horrible_ design as in 1995?

Its the same color scheme and keyboard design, other than that they are very different machines than in 1995.

I personally love the look and sturdy build of the machines. You know a thinkpad when you see one and you never have to worry that the latest 'rev' of the hardware has become cheap or the keyboard on your new laptop has been totally redesigned and cheapened up.

While different designs from Lenovo would be welcome on new models, I hope they never change the basics of the thinkpad.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Design
by irbis on Sat 15th Mar 2008 19:06 UTC in reply to "Design"
irbis Member since:
2005-07-08

Although personally I think these notebooks look quite stylish, you may have a point. I have a woman friend who is looking for a suitable but not too big laptop. So I emailed her a link to this review and said that something like this good be suitable laptop if she can afford the price. The reply: she complained, maybe partly as a joke but still..., that the laptop is too dark and dull-looking to suit her tastes... ;) Well, I wouldn't have guessed that, and like I said, I would like the current looks. But maybe Lenovo could indeed try to put more effort also into the aesthetic design of their laptops, so that all the models wouldn't have the same old industrial black/dark gray looks and there would be more design choices too.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Design
by StephenBeDoper on Sat 15th Mar 2008 20:09 UTC in reply to "RE: Design"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

I don't recall the specific models (and it looks like the Lenovo online store is down), but I believe Lenovo has already started doing that. IIRC some of the newer consumer-oriented models that Lenovo has introduced (aka, models that didn't exist in the IBM days) are marginally "flashier". But still fairly minimalist, compared to laptops from Apple or Sony.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Design
by StephenBeDoper on Sat 15th Mar 2008 20:03 UTC in reply to "Design"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Do you mean design, or aesthestics? If you mean the design, I assure you that it *has* indeed changed over the years - speaking as the former owner of a Thinkpad 560x, and the current owner of a x30.

If you mean aesthetics, it's not *trying* to be beautiful, it's not designed for people who see their laptop as a way to attract the opposite sex at Starbucks.

I'd argue that, aesthetically, Thinkpads at least succeed at being *not ugly* (unlike many Dell/HP/Acer laptops, that look as if the designers had to be restrained from adding a spoiler & spinners).

Edited 2008-03-15 20:10 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Design
by Kokopelli on Sat 15th Mar 2008 21:31 UTC in reply to "RE: Design"
Kokopelli Member since:
2005-07-06

In case anyone actually wonders where the original concept of the thinkpad design came from it was based on the Japanese Bento box.

http://lenovoblogs.com/designmatters/?p=72

From a brand recognition standpoint it is probably the most recognizable design out right now for laptops. While I would not call the thinkpad stylish, it is functional and neither guady or ugly. It is a solid design and look that has lasted longer than any other computer design I am aware of.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Design
by arokh on Sun 16th Mar 2008 12:12 UTC in reply to "RE: Design"
arokh Member since:
2008-01-29

It's looking the same as 1995.

Why isn't it trying to be beautiful? Having style is not all about attracting the other sex you know.

Let me assure you, the Thinkpad is ugly. It might look "not ugly" to some, but nowawadays non-geeks use computers as well.

Sounds harsh, but it's the truth. Have you seen all the inconsistencies on the outer shell of these laptops? It has bumps all over, stuff pointing out. I mean, there are plenty of alternatives that have the same specifications and look much better.

Also, did you ever actually use a Thinkpad? Even today, the Lenovo laptops are so loaded to the brink with crap that it is almost not useable. It takes 30 minutes to remove all the unnecessary software that's on there.

These laptops just seem to appeal to businesses that signed a deal with IBM 10 years ago and are scared to death of change.

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: Design
by h3rman on Sun 16th Mar 2008 23:14 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Design"
h3rman Member since:
2006-08-09

Let me assure you, the Thinkpad is ugly. It might look "not ugly" to some, but nowawadays non-geeks use computers as well.


Well, uh, that's just your, opinion, man.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Design
by polaris20 on Mon 17th Mar 2008 14:17 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Design"
polaris20 Member since:
2005-07-06

It's looking the same as 1995.

Why isn't it trying to be beautiful? Having style is not all about attracting the other sex you know.


I think that they're more concerned with form following function, and making a fantastic laptop. They succeeded.

Let me assure you, the Thinkpad is ugly. It might look "not ugly" to some, but nowawadays non-geeks use computers as well.


Thanks for your opinion.

Sounds harsh, but it's the truth.


No, it's the opinion of a person who clearly hasn't used a Thinkpad for any length of time.

Have you seen all the inconsistencies on the outer shell of these laptops? It has bumps all over, stuff pointing out. I mean, there are plenty of alternatives that have the same specifications and look much better.


First of all, you're exaggerating. Any "bump" or inconsistency is there for a reason. Second, you clearly have never had to support laptops before if you think that specifications are all that matter when comparing laptops. Build quality, support, and design all factor into what makes a great laptop, or computer in general.

Also, did you ever actually use a Thinkpad? Even today, the Lenovo laptops are so loaded to the brink with crap that it is almost not useable. It takes 30 minutes to remove all the unnecessary software that's on there.


I agree with you, they do come with a lot of crap. Just like Sony, HP, Dell, and Gateway. The best solution for all of them is to reformat, or re-image.

These laptops just seem to appeal to businesses that signed a deal with IBM 10 years ago and are scared to death of change.


No, they appeal to businesses and individual users alike that value solid construction, great performance and great service.

Am I biased? Certainly. I love my T61p and wouldn't trade it for anything, and I love the fact that at least with the Thinkpads here in the office, I won't constantly be placing service calls for replacement parts like I do with the HPs and Dells.

But I give my opinion with the experience of supporting HP, Dell, and Sony for the past 7 years at various companies.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Design
by StephenBeDoper on Mon 17th Mar 2008 19:04 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Design"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Why isn't it trying to be beautiful?


Why in the world *would* it?

Having style is not all about attracting the other sex you know.


But since you haven't offered a single practical reason why style is essential in this context, then we should... just take your word for it? Or perhaps we should just guess wildly?

Let me assure you, the Thinkpad is ugly.


So... let's see if I understand. You're saying that it's incredibly significant that the Thinkpad is "ugly," yet you can't explain WHY it's significant - or qualify your assertion that it's ugly.

You haven't even given a single example of a laptop that you think *is* stylish / "not ugly". So why should anyone take your assurances the least bit seriously?

It might look "not ugly" to some, but nowawadays non-geeks use computers as well.


So subjective aesthetic whims/sensibilities are terribly important - but only those of non-geeks?

Sounds harsh, but it's the truth.


No, it sounds like yet another amateur "backseat design expert" who can't distinguish between subjective taste and objective fact.

The statements you've made so far can be boiled down to nothing more than "I don't know art, but I know what I hate (even if I can't give any actual specific reasons)."

Also, did you ever actually use a Thinkpad?


Um, yes. Was I excessively-subtle when I wrote that I've owned two of them, or should I have specified that they were used as computers (rather than, say, paperweights)?

Even today, the Lenovo laptops are so loaded to the brink with crap that it is almost not useable.


So the "style" of a piece of hardware is now defined by the software that it's pre-loaded with? That's some very interesting.... oh, let's say "reasoning."

And you *do* realize that massive amounts of pre-loaded crap is the status quo when it comes to OEM Windows PCs, right?

These laptops just seem to appeal to businesses that signed a deal with IBM 10 years ago and are scared to death of change.


That's possibly the most facile statement you've posted so far. You don't have to look any further than this comment thread to find less-simplistic reasons why someone would choose a Thinkpad.

If people want to make computer purchasing decisions primarily based on the exterior appearance, they're perfectly free to. But I, for one, am glad that there's still at least one line of portables meant to appeal to people who consider utility, functionality, serviceability, etc, as more important than aesthetics.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Design
by remenic on Sun 16th Mar 2008 15:40 UTC in reply to "Design"
remenic Member since:
2005-07-06

I have a Thinkpad 600 (from 1999) and a Macbook. Both are very similar in size and weight. The Macbook is completely white, while the IBM is completely black, but both are simply beautiful.

Many of the clones to fine too, though. I have also owned an Acer Ferrari 3000, and while it's a pretty good looking laptop, it looks like a device will a limited life-span. Hell, it already has had several revisions, so that probably means a lot of people didn't like the looks that much. Oh and I had to bring it in for repairs, twice, too.

The Thinkpad on the other hand is indestructible and timeless. In fact, It's still working! I expect the Macbook to last a long time too. Apple and IBM. The rest are just cheap clones, copying the originals.

My next "PC laptop" will be a Thinkpad again. No doubt about that. At first I was disappointed when IBM handed over the Thinkpad line to Lenovo, but so far they seem to be doing fine.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Design
by BiPolar on Mon 17th Mar 2008 13:23 UTC in reply to "Design"
BiPolar Member since:
2007-07-06

It's 2008, why does Thinkpads still have the same _horrible_ design as in 1995?


Because many people still find it to be a solid and nice design, and keep buying it?

It's good to have alternatives, you know. ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Design
by kwanbis on Tue 18th Mar 2008 04:39 UTC in reply to "Design"
kwanbis Member since:
2005-07-06

As i said before, i have had from a 701C, to a Z61. They are very similar, black, with a trackpoint (the best pointing device var none), and a screen, and that is about it.

I also have a macbook. A macbook is no more flashier than a ThinkPad.

And i rather have the minimalist looks of the ThinkPads/Macbooks, than the horrible HPs that look like a discotecke where everything has a light, etc.

Reply Score: 2