Linked by Eugenia Loli on Thu 24th Apr 2008 15:42 UTC, submitted by M-Saunders
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu The Hardy Heron has taken flight: it's the second LTS (Long Term Support) release of the world's most popular distro. New features include the Wubi Windows installer and Firefox 3 beta 5. Grab a copy here, and check out Linux Format's overview of the release.
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Good Stuff
by SlackerJack on Thu 24th Apr 2008 15:59 UTC
SlackerJack
Member since:
2005-11-12

Good release, gvfs is nice and much needed, like the new clock applet and love the utube plugin for Totem(Though actually works with totem-xine).

Firefox 3 look real nice in this release with all the tango icons and native GTK theming. Does me well for my artwork and love GIMP 2.4. I like how you dont have to load up the Live CD now and just goes to the installer if you want.

Edited 2008-04-24 16:01 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Good Stuff
by flanque on Fri 25th Apr 2008 00:14 UTC in reply to "Good Stuff"
flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

I've been really waiting for this release to give Linux another go. Cannot wait to install it and see if I can do away with Windows.

Reply Score: 2

Wait a while...
by baadger on Thu 24th Apr 2008 16:01 UTC
baadger
Member since:
2006-08-29

I advise everyone to wait for the load on the servers to die down before upgrading.

I downloaded the 8.04 AMD64 alternative CD ISO (from a local mirror) and tried a CD upgrade. It asked if I would like to use the latest updates from the Internet and selecting no resulted in failure (unresolved dependencies or something). I tried again, this time selecting yes, and so I'm now in the middle of a painfully slow package downloading phase. 150MB of packages (apparently not from a local mirror) even with the CD being used as a upgrade source!

Still nothing can be worse than installing XP SP3 yesterday which completely wrecked one of my machines...

Reply Score: 2

RE: Wait a while...
by rockwell on Thu 24th Apr 2008 16:30 UTC in reply to "Wait a while..."
rockwell Member since:
2005-09-13

//Still nothing can be worse than installing XP SP3 yesterday which completely wrecked one of my machines.//

In other news, nothing can be worse than upgrading to Hardy Heron this morning and completely wrecking my wifi connection and blasting the X server into oblivion.

Moral: any upgrade on any OS can be troublesome.

Reply Score: 13

RE: Wait a while...
by baadger on Thu 24th Apr 2008 17:28 UTC in reply to "Wait a while..."
baadger Member since:
2006-08-29

Just an update. The update went smoothly. No problems whatsoever.

Reply Score: 4

v RE[2]: Wait a while...
by PJBonoVox on Fri 25th Apr 2008 08:01 UTC in reply to "RE: Wait a while..."
RE[3]: Wait a while...
by whitehornmatt on Fri 25th Apr 2008 12:19 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Wait a while..."
whitehornmatt Member since:
2005-07-07

With the SP3 RC2 Refresh I had a BSOD caused by GDI32.dll on each startup (caused by the nVidia graphics drivers according to what I read about it). If you have automatic restart enabled it will look like the system is destroyed.

All that I needed to do to fix it was pop in the install disc and copy the SP2 file (that is backed up when you install) over the top of the SP3 one and all is fine. Obviously it is a problem, but it is pre-release software so I'm not going to attack Microsoft for it (or nVidia). A fix was already available IIRC when I experienced it.

I haven't noticed much difference with SP3, but I'm sure it saved me a lot of updates to SP2 on a fresh install.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Wait a while...
by Robocoastie on Sat 26th Apr 2008 16:17 UTC in reply to "Wait a while..."
Robocoastie Member since:
2005-09-15

another reason to wait a while is that nvidia binaries are problematic right now. Nothing seems to work. Even setting xorg.conf up by hand and loading the latest binary driver manually instead of the provided one from Ubuntu you can download works. The ubuntuforums are filled with people pulling their hair out over it.

If you have an open source video card (and let's face it unless your computer is a 10 year old verge no one does) 8.04 is not ready for prime time.

Reply Score: 1

Excellent release
by REM2000 on Thu 24th Apr 2008 16:04 UTC
REM2000
Member since:
2006-07-25

Ubuntu and linux goes from strength to strength, it's great to watch this incredible technology grow at such a fantastic rate.

Reply Score: 12

Ubuntu 8.04
by protagonist on Thu 24th Apr 2008 16:10 UTC
protagonist
Member since:
2005-07-06

I have been running it since the late Alpha stage and it is a very impressive release. I installed one of the late betas on a friends system and it automatically picked up and installed the correct driver for his Brother laser printer as well as setting his video to the default resolution. A trip to the settings, turning on the 3D for his ATI card and rebooting were all that was needed to get that working.

If you have the room I would reccommend trying it. While it is not my main OS I still find it to be a very good release. (I have a fondness for PC-BSD on my Intel machine). :-)

Reply Score: 2

screenies
by lqsh on Thu 24th Apr 2008 16:14 UTC
lqsh
Member since:
2007-01-01
RE: screenies
by cmost on Thu 24th Apr 2008 17:07 UTC in reply to "screenies"
cmost Member since:
2006-07-16

The bird on the otherwise drab wallpaper is a nice touch, otherwise it looks much like the last five Ubuntu releases.

Reply Score: 1

Average release
by miscz on Thu 24th Apr 2008 16:24 UTC
miscz
Member since:
2005-07-17

Ubuntu folks have sorted out all the Nautilus/GVFS mess that I was experiencing in alpha releases but PulseAudio is still not there. What's worse, removing PulseAudio is often not a solution. Intel HDA, most popular integrated sound chipset now is often broken without PA (search on Launchpad for details). Since upgrade to Alsa 1.0.16 (in January/February) you have to recompile ALSA modules manually (with help of module-assistant) to have proper volume control.

As usual Ubuntu brings rather well integrated progress from lots of Linux projects, maybe not as bleeding edge as Fedora and not as user friendly as openSuse but it's balanced really good.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Average release
by Soulbender on Fri 25th Apr 2008 03:59 UTC in reply to "Average release"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I dunno, I have no problems with Intel HDA. In fact, on my new laptop, a Compaq Presario V3770TU, Ubuntu supports it's Intel HDA (Conexant SmartAudio 221) out of the box while there are no working drivers for it in XP at all. It also worked fine on my previous Fujitsu Lifebook.

Edited 2008-04-25 04:07 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Average release
by miscz on Fri 25th Apr 2008 10:41 UTC in reply to "RE: Average release"
miscz Member since:
2005-07-17

It might look like it works because PulseAudio provides it's own mixer. I do not like to beta test software so I have removed it and noticed that I'm left without any working way to control volume.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/192382

It probably doesn't apply to a noticeable fraction of Intel HDA users but since it's a very popular integrated audio solution this might potentially affect a lot of users.

Reply Score: 2

Fast mirroing!
by MaCkeR on Thu 24th Apr 2008 16:34 UTC
MaCkeR
Member since:
2008-04-21

It seems Ubuntu servers are dead slow and overloaded.

I'm mirroring torrents of DVD releases on http://www.aamod.co.nr and most of them on http://www.acc.umu.se/~mighty/ubuntu/

Happy Ubuntuing!!

Reply Score: 6

RE: Fast mirroing!
by JPisini on Thu 24th Apr 2008 16:38 UTC in reply to "Fast mirroing!"
JPisini Member since:
2006-01-24

Thank you the more mirrors the better.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Fast mirroing!
by BrianH on Thu 24th Apr 2008 16:44 UTC in reply to "Fast mirroing!"
BrianH Member since:
2005-07-06

If you go directly to any one of the mirror sites you will find the official torrents of all of the Ubuntu CDs. Using those will be much faster and help the most people.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Fast mirroing!
by MaCkeR on Thu 24th Apr 2008 17:59 UTC in reply to "RE: Fast mirroing!"
MaCkeR Member since:
2008-04-21

Yes you get torrents of CD's but not DVD's!
I've linked the DVD torrents..

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Fast mirroing!
by Lettherebemorelight on Thu 24th Apr 2008 22:18 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Fast mirroing!"
Lettherebemorelight Member since:
2005-07-11

Probably a silly question, but what exactly does the DVD iso include? I would guess off the top of my head that it would include alternate install + desktop live cd + server install, but at 3.7 GB my guess doesn't add up.

Reply Score: 2

v world's most popular distro?
by faltiska on Thu 24th Apr 2008 16:44 UTC
RE: world's most popular distro?
by fretinator on Thu 24th Apr 2008 16:57 UTC in reply to "world's most popular distro?"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06
Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

Page Hit Ranking = Distrowatch Site Statistics

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20060717

"Ladislav has said time and time again not to take the distribution Page Hit Ranking too seriously"

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS6997734761.html

"in his analysis Bodnar notes that "DistroWatch Page Hit Ranking doesn't mean all that much and we have been saying this for years."

http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=faq

"It is a light-hearted way of looking at popularity of distribution. Since each distribution has its own page, I though it would be fun to track the number of visitors viewing individual distribution pages. The HPD figure represents hits per day by unique visitors; as determined by the visitor's IP address."

Reply Score: 2

RE: world's most popular distro?
by sbergman27 on Thu 24th Apr 2008 16:58 UTC in reply to "world's most popular distro?"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Is this a fact?
Is it the "world's most popular distro"?
Or is this just your own opinion?

*sigh*

Please give it a rest. It's not important. And arguing back and forth about it does not change its relative popularity one iota either way. It does, however, become annoying and wastes yours and other's time. Whichever "side" (if any) one happens to be on regarding this issue, it makes sense to let the other "side" remain overconfident. So the most effective strategy is to say nothing.

Reply Score: 8

fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

So the most effective strategy is to say nothing.


Well said!

Reply Score: 4

Sodapop Member since:
2005-07-06

I think it's important. Saying it's the "Most Popular" might confuse Joe User into downloading a distro that might not be for him/her. Thus turning him off to Linux.

Reply Score: 1

s_groening Member since:
2005-12-13

I guess people interested in Linux would've heard of Ubuntu whether you like it or not or whether somebody calls it 'most popular' or not, and thus might very well have given it thought before someone else mentions Turbo Linux, Slackware, Fedora or any of the thousands of other distos our there ...

Actually people used to think like this about Red Hat and that has, I think, neither hurt nor helped Linux significantly ... What it does is give people an initial point of focus that might make it easier for them to choose Linux instead of driving them towards a certain distro ... Get people to get experienced and they'll form their own opinions, but I hardly think this little predicate is doing any harm ...

Reply Score: 2

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Joe User does not read osnews.
Stop whining just because your favorite distro isn't as popular or get as much attention.

Reply Score: 3

raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

I beg to differ.

http://osnews.com/search?q=joe+user&src=4

For all the Joe Users on here

Reply Score: 2

Firefox Beta 5
by Moya on Thu 24th Apr 2008 16:49 UTC
Moya
Member since:
2007-07-26

is not supposed this release be stable ( ubuntu i mean ) ? is right pack beta software in a stable release ?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Firefox Beta 5
by fretinator on Thu 24th Apr 2008 16:53 UTC in reply to "Firefox Beta 5"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

Remember that this is a LTS (long-term support) release. It is going to be around for 3 years on the desktop (5 on the server). Would you really want to be using Firefox 2.0 three years from now? Not me! I'm very glad they managed to squeeze FF 3.0 into this release, since it is the main application most users (including me) use on a daily basis.

Reply Score: 9

RE: Firefox Beta 5
by bousozoku on Thu 24th Apr 2008 17:18 UTC in reply to "Firefox Beta 5"
bousozoku Member since:
2006-01-23

is not supposed this release be stable ( ubuntu i mean ) ? is right pack beta software in a stable release ?


It may not be but the last one had beta software, early release software, release candidate software, so I don't see it as a big deal but then, I won't be using a browser that isn't finished to do financial transactions anyway.

Eventually, they'll have it done. I still don't have the latest Firefox (2.0.0.14) on Ubuntu 7.10, as it wasn't available in Software Update the last time I looked.

I'm looking forward to the new Ubuntu release. I think I'll wait until some Linux magazine has a disc included.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Firefox Beta 5
by Johann Chua on Fri 25th Apr 2008 04:29 UTC in reply to "RE: Firefox Beta 5"
Johann Chua Member since:
2005-07-22

7.10 already has Firefox 2.0.0.14.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Firefox Beta 5
by unoengborg on Thu 24th Apr 2008 19:35 UTC in reply to "Firefox Beta 5"
unoengborg Member since:
2005-07-06

There have been statements from Mozilla people that it should be OK, to use, or at least better than the 2.x versions, even though there still might be more bugs to kill. My personal experience with it so far seem to confirm this.

So yes, I think it was the right decision.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Firefox Beta 5
by miles on Fri 25th Apr 2008 00:18 UTC in reply to "Firefox Beta 5"
miles Member since:
2006-06-15

There's going to be a kind of .1 release in July, which will include Firefox 3 final.

They're explicitely advising LTS users to wait till July, while users that want the latest version can happily install now.

It does make far more sense than trying to keep with Firefox 2 for the next 3 years, especially considering that - at least on my desktop - Firefox 2.0 in Gutsy has proved far from stable (it's not really Mozilla's fault since it works ok on other distros/OS).

If you stop a minute and consider that businesses always wait for an SP1 before any migration, July's release is going to fit perfectly in the LTS scheme.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Firefox Beta 5
by Soulbender on Fri 25th Apr 2008 04:10 UTC in reply to "Firefox Beta 5"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

If it works, it works and it will be upgraded when he final FF3 is released anyway.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by dizzey
by dizzey on Thu 24th Apr 2008 16:55 UTC
dizzey
Member since:
2005-10-15

Hehe you can notice each ubuntu realese very well on the stats for acc:s ftp server. they host the swedish mirror.

http://www.acc.umu.se/technical/statistic/ftp/monitordata/index.htm...

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by dizzey
by milles21 on Thu 24th Apr 2008 19:07 UTC in reply to "Comment by dizzey"
milles21 Member since:
2006-11-08

I agree with you 100% I have felt that the OpenSUSE distro has been the only one truly differentiating themselves.

You can hate the start menu but lets be honest the Opensuse community has been delivering innovation. I expect to here the flames of the Microsoft deal. However that does not change the great work that they have been delivering. the stability of the distribution is also a great thing, their one-click system, opensuse build service, the control-center which many have adopted.

Grade the distro for it's merit Opensuse has been a true innovator, that is not to take anything away from ubuntu.

Reply Score: 0

Another Ubuntu
by unoengborg on Thu 24th Apr 2008 17:28 UTC
unoengborg
Member since:
2005-07-06

Perhaps I'm spoiled, but I don't get that Wow! feeling anymore when I install a new Ubuntu version that I used to get a couple of years ago. I still remember how Brezy Badger really stood out, compared to other distros.

This is not because Ubuntu or Hardy Heron is bad, on the contrary Hardy Heron is very good indeed. The difference is, that so are most other modern Linux distros. That's why Ubuntu doesn't stand out as something exceptional anymore.

Today, the only distro that stands out is OpenSuse, With the help of usability tests from Novell, it really have taken Linux usability to the next level.
I wish Ubuntu and other distros would borrow some of that for their future releases. Or even better that it was taken up by Gnome. That way it would almost automagically be common goods to almost every Gnome based Linux distro, not to mention OpenSolaris, and FreeBSD.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Another Ubuntu
by apoclypse on Thu 24th Apr 2008 18:22 UTC in reply to "Another Ubuntu"
apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

If you mean that crappy start menu thingy, then no thanks.

Reply Score: 6

RE: Another Ubuntu
by raver31 on Thu 24th Apr 2008 19:07 UTC in reply to "Another Ubuntu"
raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

Yes it might look good, but the usability goes downhill when you try to add software to it as RPM sucks plums, and YAST is a pain.

If OpenSuse dumps Yast, then it might be worth a look, until then, I will stick to Ubuntu and PC-BSD

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Another Ubuntu
by orestes on Thu 24th Apr 2008 20:06 UTC in reply to "RE: Another Ubuntu"
orestes Member since:
2005-07-06

Can't speak for Yast, as I've not used suse in years, but I haven't had any real issues with rpm based distros since the late 90s and really don't see where .debs are particularly more impressive.

Reply Score: 8

RE[2]: Another Ubuntu
by islander on Thu 24th Apr 2008 21:28 UTC in reply to "RE: Another Ubuntu"
islander Member since:
2007-04-11

Could not have said it any better.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Another Ubuntu
by miles on Fri 25th Apr 2008 00:25 UTC in reply to "RE: Another Ubuntu"
miles Member since:
2006-06-15

Let's hope they drop Yast AND rpm at the same time.

It might be a great distro, but .deb and Debian standards are not things you leave easily. Which is why I always wonder why some people can compare such distros with Ubuntu, when these distros aren't even based on Debian. Suse and Fedora are doing a great job and catering for the needs of their user base, but if they ever want to attract Debian users there's only one way to do it. Till then, it's like trying to sell meat to vegetarians.

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: Another Ubuntu
by h3rman on Fri 25th Apr 2008 15:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Another Ubuntu"
h3rman Member since:
2006-08-09

Let's hope they drop Yast AND rpm at the same time.


Sure, why not just fork Debian. Any idea how much work "dropping rpm" is? It's equivalent to killing your distro.

It might be a great distro, but .deb and Debian standards are not things you leave easily.


That's not a "standard". It's distro specific, it's not like Xorg or glibc or kdebase.

Which is why I always wonder why some people can compare such distros with Ubuntu, when these distros aren't even based on Debian.


The essence of comparing is comparing things that are *different*, not the same.

Suse and Fedora are doing a great job and catering for the needs of their user base,


I sense what you really mean is, 'for the handful of losers still using them..' ;)

but if they ever want to attract Debian users there's only one way to do it. Till then, it's like trying to sell meat to vegetarians.


You jest?
You believe for a second that Suse+dpkg=home_run?
Sorry, but it really doesn't work like that.
BTW I wonder what all those Debian users are flocking to CentOS for on servers? Could they actually believe there is an "rpm-based distro" that is doing *something* right? ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Another Ubuntu
by suser on Fri 25th Apr 2008 08:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Another Ubuntu"
suser Member since:
2005-08-04

Yes it might look good, but the usability goes downhill when you try to add software to it as RPM sucks plums, and YAST is a pain.


When was last time you try it? You might wanna reconsider ;-)

http://duncan.mac-vicar.com/blog/archives/296

Reply Score: 2

RE: Another Ubuntu
by milles21 on Thu 24th Apr 2008 20:06 UTC in reply to "Another Ubuntu"
milles21 Member since:
2006-11-08

I meant to reply here so I will try again
I agree with you 100% I have felt that the OpenSUSE distro has been the only one truly differentiating themselves.

You can hate the start menu but lets be honest the Opensuse community has been delivering innovation. I expect to here the flames of the Microsoft deal. However that does not change the great work that they have been delivering. the stability of the distribution is also a great thing, their one-click system, opensuse build service, the control-center which many have adopted.

Grade the distro for it's merit Opensuse has been a true innovator, that is not to take anything away from ubuntu.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Another Ubuntu
by OMRebel on Thu 24th Apr 2008 20:28 UTC in reply to "RE: Another Ubuntu"
OMRebel Member since:
2005-11-14

You're joking right? I'm sorry to burst your bubble but:
1. Copying the start bar isn't innovative.
2. Yast is pathetic and slow.
3. openSUSE is bloated and slow.

If that's the innovation you want, there's some stock in a company over in Redmond you should be looking into.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Another Ubuntu
by milles21 on Thu 24th Apr 2008 20:55 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Another Ubuntu"
milles21 Member since:
2006-11-08

Oh yeah maybe your right

XGL = bloat = Novell/OpensUSE,
banshee = bloat = Novell/Opensuse


Oh wait both are in ubuntu, oh and

SLES 10 in tons of businesses uses the opensuse as it's foundation ubuntu not so much!!!!!

Yup sounds all bloated to me you are right I don't want that type of innovation considering that before SLES 10 RHEL was the enterprise standard.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Another Ubuntu
by OMRebel on Thu 24th Apr 2008 21:08 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Another Ubuntu"
OMRebel Member since:
2005-11-14

openSUSE (which is what we're talking about) is MUCH slower on the same hardware than Ubuntu is. That is a FACT.

As many businesses that I've worked in and seen that use linux, RHEL is the only version that they use. Until Novell does something with Yast (either get rid of it, or fix it), then Suse will continue to be trying to play catchup.

Besides, aren't we focusing on desktops and not servers?

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Another Ubuntu
by milles21 on Thu 24th Apr 2008 21:16 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Another Ubuntu"
milles21 Member since:
2006-11-08

That is where we obviously differ, I have seen atleast 10 companies personlly that have moved from RHEL to SLES 10,
also in 3 of the companies YAST was one of the reasons they chose to move.

YAST may at time be slow however from an administration perspective with junior admins it is functional.

Also I know we are talking Ubuntu and OpenSUSE but Zenworks and SLES are really a winning combo. I am not saying ubuntu is a bad distro I am saying from an innovation perspective I see more of the innovative development coming from the Opensuse community. That does not make ubuntu a bad distro they package really well but that was not what we were discussing.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Another Ubuntu
by suser on Fri 25th Apr 2008 08:52 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Another Ubuntu"
suser Member since:
2005-08-04

openSUSE (which is what we're talking about) is MUCH slower on the same hardware than Ubuntu is. That is a FACT.


I disagree.
11.0 beta1 faster installation, faster package management and 64bit system done right.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Another Ubuntu
by glimpze777 on Fri 25th Apr 2008 11:52 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Another Ubuntu"
glimpze777 Member since:
2008-04-25

Are you nuts? I did compare Ubuntu and opensuse on the same hardware but ubuntu crashed! Opensuse works as a charm! its way better that other distro lots of innovation! I'm a school systems administrator and YAST is the best!

Reply Score: 0

RE[6]: Another Ubuntu
by 6c1452 on Fri 25th Apr 2008 12:15 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Another Ubuntu"
6c1452 Member since:
2007-08-29

Are you sure you're not a student? I'm pretty sure there are rules about school system employees not abusing punctuation like that....

Just installed 8.04. It has its' quirks, but overall the experience has been great. Installed without whining, booted to the desktop. My biggest complaint so far is that gnome-terminal randomly crashes when editing the profile. Well, that and that the package servers are overloaded.

You know what though? What I really want to do is set up a machine just for trying things. There must be at least a dozen distros I want to try, and half of those are high-quality desktops. Life is good.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Another Ubuntu
by Soulbender on Fri 25th Apr 2008 12:19 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Another Ubuntu"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Funny thing is, so did I. On the same hardware, HP dc5700, suse will crash and burn (unless you disable ACPI) while Ubuntu will just install and work like a charm.

Edited 2008-04-25 12:26 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Another Ubuntu
by polaris20 on Fri 25th Apr 2008 17:22 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Another Ubuntu"
polaris20 Member since:
2005-07-06

Are you nuts? I did compare Ubuntu and opensuse on the same hardware but ubuntu crashed! Opensuse works as a charm! its way better that other distro lots of innovation! I'm a school systems administrator and YAST is the best!


What don't you try using less abrasive language, so as to be taken more seriously?

I've compared OpenSuSe on the following:

XW6600
XW8600
Thinkpad T61p
NW9440
DC5750
XW4400
DC7800
NX6125
Dell M60
NC6120

All of these machines ran Ubuntu faster and with more stability.

Yast (granted on GNOME, which is our standard WM) is dreadfully slow.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Another Ubuntu
by segedunum on Fri 25th Apr 2008 14:07 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Another Ubuntu"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

openSUSE (which is what we're talking about) is MUCH slower on the same hardware than Ubuntu is. That is a FACT.

That is absolute tosh. The fact that you say stuff like this verbatim, and that you've been modded up, shows what we're dealing with - a bunch of people who really believe that Ubuntu is something that it isn't.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Another Ubuntu
by unoengborg on Thu 24th Apr 2008 21:53 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Another Ubuntu"
unoengborg Member since:
2005-07-06

You're joking right? I'm sorry to burst your bubble but:
1. Copying the start bar isn't innovative.


The innovating thing (Novell did) was not to copy the start bar, but rather that they tested it on ordinary users. I.e users that not are developers or sysadmins. This kind of tests are rare in the open source world, but very necessary if we want reach a wider market. If it looks like something from Redmond, so what, as long as users are comfortable with it lets use it, especially as it in this case is totally optional.


2. Yast is pathetic and slow.


The thing that is/was slow in YaST is software installation. However, I guess Yast for software management will go away just like, apt-get, synaptic, yum, urpmi will go away when Packagekit takes over.Not that package kit is such all that speedy, but it will provide a well integrated standard interface that will make it easier for the end user.


3. openSUSE is bloated and slow.


You could also say that it is feature rich, and contain a lot of feetures that actually are helpful to the user. Unfortunately, feetures need a little hardware to run well, but in comparison to some OSes developed in Redmond, I don't think OpenSuSE have much to worry about. And these Redmond OSes constitutes the main competition.

And after all, If you don't like SuSE there is always Ubuntu, and a whole lot of other distros that look and feel more or less the same as Ubuntu to chose from.

Even if Ubuntu currently IMHO is not the most usable Linux distro their is, the Ubuntu team can still be very proud to know that they have raised the standards for usability in the Linux desktop.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Another Ubuntu
by sakeniwefu on Fri 25th Apr 2008 01:01 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Another Ubuntu"
sakeniwefu Member since:
2008-02-26

The thing that is/was slow in YaST is software installation. However, I guess Yast for software management will go away just like, apt-get, synaptic, yum, urpmi will go away when Packagekit takes over.Not that package kit is such all that speedy, but it will provide a well integrated standard interface that will make it easier for the end user.


A superior user interface that makes it easier for the end-user does already exist. It is called "aptitude".

RPMs might be better now than they were when Red Hat pulled a Microsoft on the standards body, and YUM and YAST might be trying hard to clone functionality, but Debian-based distros were there ages before and it shows.

PackageKit is a problem looking for more problems. I wouldn't let it near any system I cared about.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Another Ubuntu
by benji on Fri 25th Apr 2008 08:02 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Another Ubuntu"
benji Member since:
2008-04-25

Actually, packagekit is a package management abstraction API. It does not replace any existing systems, but rather allows the creation of distribution independent software that is package management aware. Packagekit frontends will use yum on fedora, apt on debian, zypp on suse. etc. See http://packagekit.org for more information.


As for suse package management stack being slow, that's not really true any more. See http://youtube.com/watch?v=XB3o4Skka5Q

YaST uses the same package management library as the command line application, so sees all the same speed improvements.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Another Ubuntu
by sakeniwefu on Fri 25th Apr 2008 09:50 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Another Ubuntu"
sakeniwefu Member since:
2008-02-26

If everyone is going to use packages in their own format, why should we have a format abstraction daemon running?

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: Another Ubuntu
by benji on Fri 25th Apr 2008 17:37 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Another Ubuntu"
benji Member since:
2008-04-25

There is no packagekit daemon running all the time. It starts on demand.

And the package format is irrelevant. An application can ask to install a certain package and packagekit will install it, provided the package is packaged for the distribution currently running.

It uses the distributions' own packages. The application does not need to know what format the packages are in.

Perhaps you should read http://packagekit.org/pk-faq.html

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Another Ubuntu
by polaris20 on Fri 25th Apr 2008 17:12 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Another Ubuntu"
polaris20 Member since:
2005-07-06

You're joking right? I'm sorry to burst your bubble but:
1. Copying the start bar isn't innovative.
2. Yast is pathetic and slow.
3. openSUSE is bloated and slow.

If that's the innovation you want, there's some stock in a company over in Redmond you should be looking into.


I couldn't agree more. We're migrating over to Ubuntu at work from OpenSuse because it's proven to be far more stable on our machines (mix of HP servers and workstations, and laptops, as well as Thinkpads) as well as being faster and free of the tremendous bloat that SuSe has become saddled with in recent years.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Another Ubuntu
by Soulbender on Fri 25th Apr 2008 04:12 UTC in reply to "Another Ubuntu"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Today, the only distro that stands out is OpenSuse


I dont get the WOW feeling from OpenSUSE.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Another Ubuntu
by segedunum on Fri 25th Apr 2008 14:09 UTC in reply to "RE: Another Ubuntu"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

I dont get the WOW feeling from OpenSUSE.

Sigh........ The emperor is indeed naked, you know? I have never encountered one person who can name me one thing that Ubuntu is doing differently that matters.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Another Ubuntu
by lemur2 on Fri 25th Apr 2008 14:42 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Another Ubuntu"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"I dont get the WOW feeling from OpenSUSE.

Sigh........ The emperor is indeed naked, you know? I have never encountered one person who can name me one thing that Ubuntu is doing differently that matters.
"

One thing is that I can download Kubuntu or Xubuntu and get a fully functional fast or faster desktop without any mono dependencies or libraries installed by default.

No Novell encumber-ware at all.

Lots off nice GPL v3 protected independent software that Microsoft can't get its hooks into.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Another Ubuntu
by segedunum on Fri 25th Apr 2008 21:12 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Another Ubuntu"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

One thing is that I can download Kubuntu or Xubuntu and get a fully functional fast or faster desktop without any mono dependencies or libraries installed by default.

Ubuntu still bundles Mono and it's likely that you will see it installed at some point on your system. Indeed, Mark Shuttleworth has come out and said they see no problem with it.

Still, "Mono doesn't get installed on your system!" isn't a reason to start using Ubuntu.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Another Ubuntu
by lemur2 on Sun 27th Apr 2008 04:44 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Another Ubuntu"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"One thing is that I can download Kubuntu or Xubuntu and get a fully functional fast or faster desktop without any mono dependencies or libraries installed by default.

Ubuntu still bundles Mono and it's likely that you will see it installed at some point on your system. Indeed, Mark Shuttleworth has come out and said they see no problem with it.

Still, "Mono doesn't get installed on your system!" isn't a reason to start using Ubuntu.
"

I didn't say Ubuntu ... I said Kubuntu or Xubuntu. No Mono there, nor any programs that use Mono. The ones to watch out for are FSpot, Muine, Tomboy notes & Beagle serach. None of thos are distributed with Kubuntu or Xubuntu.

Or alternatively you could go with Mandriva or Fedora if you don't like Ubuntu's "no problem with mono" stance.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Another Ubuntu
by sontek on Sun 27th Apr 2008 06:59 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Another Ubuntu"
sontek Member since:
2008-04-27

They only reason they are not shipped with those applications is because they are GNOME applications not because they run on mono.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Another Ubuntu
by Soulbender on Fri 25th Apr 2008 15:20 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Another Ubuntu"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I didn't say I get the WOW feeling from Ubuntu but obviously it does enough things differently for me to prefer it over, say, OpenSUSE. Yes I've tried (Open)SUSE, Fedora, Slackware, Mandrake/driva etc but I still prefer Ubuntu.
Why? Mostly "soft" values like "i just like how it works", "it feels right" and such. It does also help that it has always worked well out of the box for me.
Like it or not, "soft" values matter tremendously. It's like music. I cant give you any facts on exactly why I like, say, Black Sabbath, I just do.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Another Ubuntu
by segedunum on Fri 25th Apr 2008 21:19 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Another Ubuntu"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

I didn't say I get the WOW feeling from Ubuntu but obviously it does enough things differently for me to prefer it over, say, OpenSUSE.

Like what? Does it have applications that Fedora and others don't have? Does it have applications that attract Windows users and make them stay? Does it attract developers to develop software for Ubuntu? Is there a wider range of software available for Ubuntu?

What?

Mostly "soft" values like "i just like how it works", "it feels right" and such. It does also help that it has always worked well out of the box for me.

So you haven't got a clue, in other words? Seriously, if there was something Ubuntu was doing differently to other distros then people would be able to list them pretty much immediately.

Like it or not, "soft" values matter tremendously. It's like music. I cant give you any facts on exactly why I like, say, Black Sabbath, I just do.

I'm sorry, but it is extremely easy and quantifiable to list what one system does over another. It does this, and this, and this is here that isn't on other systems and I can run this bit of software but not there or on Windows........... Those are the only reasons that matter, because that's what people move to a platform for.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Another Ubuntu
by HangLoose on Fri 25th Apr 2008 06:00 UTC in reply to "Another Ubuntu"
HangLoose Member since:
2007-09-03

For me the bests WOW thing is that it just works...

I tried to install the "big betas" in my Inspiron and all of them (fedora/opensuse) failed or to recognize my wifi or video...

On the other hand, Hardy was the only one to recognize everything... I'm not saying that I couldn't configure everything but if it can be done by the distro I wont say no... ;)

(My wife prefer opensuse ;) cos its cute) So I had quite some pain installing in her notebook

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Another Ubuntu
by miscz on Fri 25th Apr 2008 10:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Another Ubuntu"
miscz Member since:
2005-07-17

OpenSuse 11 beta was particularly bad. Ubuntu folks make sure that their alpha/beta images are at least possible to install and will mostly guarantee a stable snapshot. On the other hand openSuse 11 beta didn't even have GDM working, good job guys![/sarcasm]
It's usually a good idea to wait a month or so after release of new Suse because even supposedly proper versions are ridden with bugs that are mostly fixed in that time.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Another Ubuntu
by bornagainenguin on Fri 25th Apr 2008 22:57 UTC in reply to "RE: Another Ubuntu"
bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

HangLoose said....

I tried to install the "big betas" in my Inspiron and all of them (fedora/opensuse) failed or to recognize my wifi or video...


I have an Inspiron 5100 myself, I have a thread I try to keep updated semi-regularly over at Ubuntu Forums on the laptop and what tweaks I need to make here and there for it all to work. This has been the first time everything has just more or less worked right out of the box for me. The only gripe I have is the way Ubuntu blacklisted a bunch of ATI cards from being allowed to use Compiz-Fusion this time around...

I've been able to use Compiz-Fusion in both Gutsy and Feisty so I don't know what their problem is...

There's a work around for that issue though, thankfully and that's why I have the thread...

Maybe you'll find it useful?

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=4790762

--bornagainpenguin

PS: If there are any Arch Linux users here who use the Inspiron 5100, could they help me out with understanding the powermanagement section of the wiki that I linked to in the above post, towards the end? Thanks!

Reply Score: 2

propaganda
by JrezIN on Thu 24th Apr 2008 19:10 UTC
JrezIN
Member since:
2005-06-29

For the first time I feel like giving away all those Ubuntu live CDs may really have a good impact for Ubuntu/Linux.

Wubi installer together with Bulletproof X is a combination that most new users can actually try and almost no chances of bad experiences and lost data. live CDs are nice, but everyone knows that it can't give the full Desktop experience, mostly in terms of speed. Giving users the ability to install Ubuntu without the fear of loosing data or, even worse, post-traumatic experience of lost partitions (that usually comes together with warnings to all friends how that Operation System sux...) is the most important feature to gather new users...
...and the ability to not hit a dead end, thanks to bulletproof x, won't prevent users from installing most of their desktop needs (video/tablet/mouse/multiple monitors/etc), and enjoy the goods of Ubuntu.


That said, it's a really nice release. Too bad Firefox 3.0 final didn't hit at time, but beta 5 is stable and good enough from what I can tell. Most of the Desktop experience is mature enough, for home users and enterprise users too. I hope the next version (a non LTS one) will focus on more bleeding edge features, like a more ambitious desktop rework (something that is always postponed) to attract more users and usability work to make to step line for migration and everyone learning computing.

Reply Score: 4

RE: propaganda
by AlexandreAM on Thu 24th Apr 2008 22:24 UTC in reply to "propaganda"
AlexandreAM Member since:
2006-02-06

Wubi installer together with Bulletproof X is a combination that most new users can actually try and almost no chances of bad experiences and lost data.


* Sigh *

I just wished they'd pack the xorgconfig stuff together with their "Bullet Proof X" ... I've been using the beta for at least a month, but I had to handwrite my whole xorg.conf file to get my X running at my preferred resolution (1152x864@75Hz).

at least dpkg-reconfigure used to help, but now all it gives me is keyboard options.

Fortunately I have no problems in handwriting config files, and probably could have done it with something else to generate, but it was just faster to write it than to search for something to generate it.

Reply Score: 2

Been very happy!
by motang on Thu 24th Apr 2008 19:37 UTC
motang
Member since:
2008-03-27

I have been using Ubuntu 8.04 since Beta on my desktop and since the RC on my laptop and it one good solid OS. Has some wacky stuff dealing with GStreamer but other than that it's been great, and I am very happy with it.

Reply Score: 2

ubuntu codenames
by hussam on Thu 24th Apr 2008 20:33 UTC
hussam
Member since:
2006-08-17

To be honest, I don't use Ubuntu. But I really love their codenames. I wonder what the next Ubuntu release will be called. Anyone knows?

Reply Score: 2

RE: ubuntu codenames
by Adam S on Thu 24th Apr 2008 20:43 UTC in reply to "ubuntu codenames"
Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01
RE: ubuntu codenames
by theine on Thu 24th Apr 2008 20:44 UTC in reply to "ubuntu codenames"
theine Member since:
2005-09-29

Wow, first comment on Ubuntu's codenames in this thread, and it's not along the lines of "What's up with the goofy codenames?? That's so unprofessional!"

You're my hero.

Reply Score: 8

RE: ubuntu codenames
by fretinator on Thu 24th Apr 2008 20:48 UTC in reply to "ubuntu codenames"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

Intrepid Ibex - I really can't stand shy Ibexes (Ibeces?).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibex

Edited 2008-04-24 20:53 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: ubuntu codenames
by AlexandreAM on Thu 24th Apr 2008 22:27 UTC in reply to "RE: ubuntu codenames"
AlexandreAM Member since:
2006-02-06

Come on, you couldn't call anything with a pair of horns like that "shy". They almost scream: Hey! Look at me!

Gee... Those things are in for trouble in a thunder storm, I guess.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: ubuntu codenames
by sbergman27 on Thu 24th Apr 2008 23:02 UTC in reply to "RE: ubuntu codenames"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24


Wow. Another market for enlargement spam. ;-)

Reply Score: 3

Upgraded ok here...
by JCooper on Fri 25th Apr 2008 09:33 UTC
JCooper
Member since:
2005-07-06

... the only issue was Xorg dropped me back to 640x480 (on a 22" 1680x1050 display) after post-upgrade rebooting. After attempting to use the GUI tools to set the correct display, I gave up and moved all xorg.conf files (xorg1, xorg2 ... xorg5) to an "old" sub-directory and rebooted.

On the reboot, lo and behold, I have 1680x1050 back! That was pretty impressive ;)

Reply Score: 2

Cheers!
by factotum218 on Fri 25th Apr 2008 16:52 UTC
factotum218
Member since:
2007-03-20

I'm sure it is yet another fine release, like most other distro's available. I have a spare box and gave Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora, and openSUSE a whirl. Other than package management and KDE/GNOME desktop quirks they all run quite smoothly. Distro's are starting to gel a bit more from what I can tell. Just the round about way of getting them set up to your liking seems to be the defining element of what to use.
Cheers the the developers for all the hard work!
I myself celebrated early by updating my systems to FreeBSD 7.

Reply Score: 1

Kubuntu Live CD
by DrillSgt on Sat 26th Apr 2008 02:51 UTC
DrillSgt
Member since:
2005-12-02

does not boot properly. It can not seem to detect or set proper resolutions, causing a black screen or many vertical lines of different colors. Never see the actual screen. Downloading Ubuntu now to see if that has the same issues. The Kubuntu and Ubuntu forums are full of this issue. I highly recommend waiting..this release is broken.

Reply Score: 2

Problems with 8.04
by robertojdohnert on Sat 26th Apr 2008 06:55 UTC
robertojdohnert
Member since:
2005-07-12

I installed this release to test it because I rely on Ubuntu for my own distribution, PC/OS. There are still a few problems that plaqued the pre-releases that still plaque the new release. For 1, I still experience the constant crashing on my laptop with an Nvidia integrated GPU. Ndiswrapper will bring down the entire system causing it to freeze and I have to induce a hard reboot. if I extract an archive the folder disappears and I have to extract again and then I have two folders in Nautilus or Thunar. I guess I will have to wait until they fix it, or try to track down and fix the problems myself.

I tried the ndiswrapper problem on several machines to make sure that It wasnt hardware or system related and I was able to reproduce on 3 different systems using different devices.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Problems with 8.04
by OMRebel on Mon 28th Apr 2008 04:09 UTC in reply to "Problems with 8.04"
OMRebel Member since:
2005-11-14

Regarding NDISWrapper, I'm using that for my wireless (the open source driver is way too slow for some reason). It's worked perfectly on my broadcom card using Dell's R140747.EXE driver. The b43-fwcutter just wasn't working for me all that well.

Could be a problem with SSB? You didn't give enough detail to really explain what the issue is. You might want to try this:
http://www.ubuntu1501.com/2008/04/ndiswrapper-in-hardy-heron.html

Reply Score: 2

Comment by factotum218
by factotum218 on Mon 28th Apr 2008 17:53 UTC
factotum218
Member since:
2007-03-20

Ah, remember the good old days when it was expected that X was to be configured manually.

Reply Score: 1