Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 4th Jun 2008 22:08 UTC, submitted by TLZ_
Hardware, Embedded Systems Acer has stated that it will be pushing Linux aggressively on its laptops and netbooks. The company is already heavily promoting Linux for its low cost ultra-portable netbook range out later this year, but senior staff have said that Acer will also push Linux on its laptops. Acer has already started selling Linux in its Media PC business but this should now spread, according to Gianpiero Morbello, vice president of marketing and brand at Acer. "We have shifted towards Linux because of Microsoft," he said. "Microsoft has a lot of power and it is going to be difficult, but we will be working hard to develop the Linux market."
Order by: Score:
Woot!!!
by airwedge1 on Wed 4th Jun 2008 22:18 UTC
airwedge1
Member since:
2006-02-22

Woot!!!

Reply Score: 2

RE: Woot!!!
by gustl on Thu 5th Jun 2008 19:27 UTC in reply to "Woot!!!"
gustl Member since:
2006-01-19

Well, I would first wait and see what really is going to happen.
There is a certain likelyhood that Acer is doing that because they want to have a better price/feature set from Microsoft.

Reply Score: 2

Why do i have the feeling...
by Alleister on Wed 4th Jun 2008 22:24 UTC
Alleister
Member since:
2006-05-29

Why do i have the feeling that this will last until Microsoft waves some money in front of them. Maybe because of OLPC? maybe because of ASUS?

These day Linux seems to most big hardware companies to be only a leverage to get some discounts out of Microsoft.

Reply Score: 8

RE: Why do i have the feeling...
by r_a_trip on Wed 4th Jun 2008 22:31 UTC in reply to "Why do i have the feeling..."
r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

These day Linux seems to most big hardware companies to be only a leverage to get some discounts out of Microsoft.

Probably true, but either way it will create a Linux market, because continually squeezing Microsoft will bleed them dry eventually. If the money stops, the incentive for cheaper wares gets stronger.

Reply Score: 10

Stephen! Member since:
2007-11-24

Most of Microsoft's attempts to deal with Linux don't seem to have been particularly successful. Get the Facts outlived it's usefulness. SCO ended up bankrupt, despite Microsoft's funding and they've yet to prove there's any truth to the so-called patent violations ....

Edited 2008-06-05 00:19 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE: Why do i have the feeling...
by bnolsen on Fri 6th Jun 2008 04:59 UTC in reply to "Why do i have the feeling..."
bnolsen Member since:
2006-01-06

At some point Microsoft will start to call these company's bluffs. That's when things will get more interesting.

Reply Score: 2

Little More Information?
by TheIdiotThatIsMe on Wed 4th Jun 2008 22:53 UTC
TheIdiotThatIsMe
Member since:
2006-06-17

Its great that Acer wants to push Linux, and we know that they are currently going to offer it on their upcoming Eee competitor, but I would like to know what some of their other plans are for their lines?

What distribution?
- If it stays it's own (which I believe they use their own on Aspire One), will it remain cost effective instead of using another distribution as a base?
Will it be customized (like Dell including DVD playback)?
Will it be advertised?
Will it be pushed into retailer stores?

Just searching through their website, I couldn't find any of the media center PC's that are supposed to have Linux, and only saying that they will be aggressively pursuing Linux leaves a lot of questions.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Little More Information?
by WereCatf on Wed 4th Jun 2008 23:19 UTC in reply to "Little More Information?"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

I sure hope they do ship with DVD playback software enabled and all that. It's just too much of a hassle for some newbie to have to figure out how to add DVD playback to an OS he/she isn't even familiar with. Besides, there's only 1 legal DVD playback software out there: LinDVD.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Little More Information?
by melkor on Thu 5th Jun 2008 03:10 UTC in reply to "RE: Little More Information?"
melkor Member since:
2006-12-16

LinDVD is the only legal option if you live in the US, or countries affiliated with the US 4th reich. The decss work around is perfectly legal, it's the DMCA that's horridly illegal.

Dave

Reply Score: 8

RE[3]: Little More Information?
by lemur2 on Fri 6th Jun 2008 12:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Little More Information?"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

LinDVD is the only legal option if you live in the US, or countries affiliated with the US 4th reich. The decss work around is perfectly legal, it's the DMCA that's horridly illegal.

Dave


DeCSS is a Windows program.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeCSS

Linux DVD players use libdvdcss ... which has never been challenged in court.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libdvdcss
"libdvdcss is not to be confused with DeCSS".

Unlike DeCSS, libdvdcss does not use a cracked DVD player key. Therefore libdvdcss itself does not "copy" anyones IP.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Little More Information?
by melkor on Sat 7th Jun 2008 05:15 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Little More Information?"
melkor Member since:
2006-12-16

Good points - I actually did mean libdvdcss btw, my bad!

Dave

Reply Score: 2

RE: Little More Information?
by Johann Chua on Thu 5th Jun 2008 05:40 UTC in reply to "Little More Information?"
Johann Chua Member since:
2005-07-22

The last two Acers I bought came with Linpus Linux. I installed Windows and Ubuntu on both. At least in the case of the laptop (last year), Linux was mentioned on promotional flyers and ads.

Reply Score: 3

the one ?!
by robinh on Wed 4th Jun 2008 22:56 UTC
robinh
Member since:
2006-12-19

Have you seen the "Acer One" - EEE PC Killer? Looks nice:

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/06/03/acer_launches_one/

I particularly like the part about possible HSDPA support.

It runs the "Linpus" distro which I've never heard of before. I'm assuming this is either RH or Debian based?

(or is that what they wanted me to say.........)

Reply Score: 3

RE: the one ?!
by VistaUser on Wed 4th Jun 2008 23:24 UTC in reply to "the one ?!"
VistaUser Member since:
2008-03-08

According to the comments on that link, it is based on Fedora.

Since the last Linpus release (9.4) was in late 2007, I assume it is either Fedora 7 or 8 based.

(no Idea if any of this post is accurate or not as it is based on a single comment.)

Either way, the One looks good.

Edited 2008-06-04 23:25 UTC

Reply Score: 2

look down.
by Beta on Wed 4th Jun 2008 23:03 UTC
Beta
Member since:
2005-07-06

Year of Linux Desktop.

Need more be said?

Edited 2008-06-04 23:04 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE: look down.
by IvoLimmen on Thu 5th Jun 2008 05:12 UTC in reply to "look down."
IvoLimmen Member since:
2005-07-06

I think last year was the year of Linux as Dell started selling machines with Linux on it. After that the other hardware suppliers followed.

Reply Score: 4

RE: look down.
by miscz on Thu 5th Jun 2008 06:54 UTC in reply to "look down."
miscz Member since:
2005-07-17

It's not a year of Linux Desktop. It's a year of Linux Netbook ;)

Reply Score: 6

RE: look down. - crap, you broke it
by jabbotts on Thu 5th Jun 2008 12:25 UTC in reply to "look down."
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

You had to go and say it "year of the Linux Desktop".. just like every year since '95.

The heck with "The Year".. it's come and gone.. Linux based OS work fine as a desktop but everyone will always have there preference and always claim that this is or is not the year of the XYZ Desktop and death of the UVW Desktop.

Use it or don't; stop looking for everyone else's approval and agreement because for some, there will always be an infintesmal reason it won't be their year of the Linux based OS.

(Rant directed generally rather than at an specific poster)

As for Acer, we'll have to see how it works out in the end. Dell has kept it going though still lacks marketing and obfuscates the website. Asus is playing both sides but as a hardware manufacturer they should be leveraging software competition.

With the decline of the benefits of the EeePC (or evolution into just another little notebook), we'll have to watch how the subnotbook market goes now that other contenders are joining in.

Reply Score: 3

I always did like them
by tuaris on Wed 4th Jun 2008 23:03 UTC
tuaris
Member since:
2007-08-05

I always did like Acer, now I know why ;)

Reply Score: 4

hmm`
by liamdawe on Wed 4th Jun 2008 23:07 UTC
liamdawe
Member since:
2006-07-04

100 pounds more for a windows xp model with less battery life, I think that sway a lot of people to the linux model, if only for price.

Reply Score: 7

Ubuntu Netbooks remix...
by apoclypse on Wed 4th Jun 2008 23:23 UTC
apoclypse
Member since:
2007-02-17

This would go very well with the Ubuntu Netbook remix that is being worked on at the moment, since its being targeted specifically for this type of device. Ubuntu would be the perfect match for Acer, and they are aready working with Intel on the same type of platform. I definitely see Ubuntu being the platform of choice for the netbooks era and Acer would do well to pay attention.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by moleskine
by moleskine on Wed 4th Jun 2008 23:26 UTC
moleskine
Member since:
2005-11-05

Some of these new gizmos look very nice; some not so nice. I guess it will be a few months before Intel's Atom beds down, though.

I'm suspicious of quite a lot of the Linux noise around these new "laptots". You'd think that if some of the hardware companies - many of them big names - behind these new machines were really serious, they'd be using solid and well-known distros. Instead they are using no-name stuff and home-brew. It's hardly a vote of confidence in Red Hat/Fedora, SuSE, Mandriva or Ubuntu all of whom have topnotch, tried and tested desktop offerings.

This couldn't be, could it, because the Far Eastern hardware outfits don't give a rat's posterior about Linux itself, and probably don't understand it as an eco-system either. It's just cheap and Microsoft, caught napping, didn't have a ready OS to slot into the machines. As others have pointed out, wads of cash are only too likely to decide this one. Like any company, Acer are betting big on profits, not on an operating system.

I'm looking forward to see what the Dell offering turns out to be like, or even a Mac one which would be really k.

Edited 2008-06-04 23:28 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE: Comment by moleskine
by ari-free on Wed 4th Jun 2008 23:58 UTC in reply to "Comment by moleskine"
ari-free Member since:
2007-01-22

if the linux community itself understood the concept of ecosystem we wouldn't have all of these distros. There would be one OS called Linux and you could play with it any way you want but it wouldn't be an official linux OS.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by moleskine
by Stephen! on Thu 5th Jun 2008 00:07 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by moleskine"
Stephen! Member since:
2007-11-24

"if the linux community itself understood the concept of ecosystem we wouldn't have all of these distros. There would be one OS called Linux and you could play with it any way you want but it wouldn't be an official linux OS."

We could call it PCLinuxOS ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by moleskine
by WereCatf on Thu 5th Jun 2008 00:12 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by moleskine"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

if the linux community itself understood the concept of ecosystem we wouldn't have all of these distros. There would be one OS called Linux and you could play with it any way you want but it wouldn't be an official linux OS.

It just won't happen. Some distros have feature A, whereas other have feature B, and then while it would be possible to have both A+B in a distro there is also the feature C which isn't compatible with either..Ie. distros are aimed at different kinds of groups and uses. Some distros are a lot better suited for f.ex. running servers, while some of them are aimed at very old hardware and need to be light, and so on.

Besides, there isn't just one version of Windows either...you need two hands to count the different versions of Vista for example.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Comment by moleskine
by WorknMan on Thu 5th Jun 2008 01:00 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by moleskine"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

Besides, there isn't just one version of Windows either...you need two hands to count the different versions of Vista for example.


You're right.. but ideally, there should be only one version of Vista too.

And anyway, you're comparing apples to oranges. If I compile a program in one version of Vista, the same executable will almost always install and run unmodified in any other version. I don't have to re-package/modify it to run on a different version. And in most cases, it'll also work on all versions of XP and 2k.

Edited 2008-06-05 01:02 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by moleskine
by raver31 on Thu 5th Jun 2008 06:26 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by moleskine"
raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

You are twisting the truth there.
Vista only apps will never run on XP, no matter how hard you try...

Compiling an application from source will run on any Linux distro, and with a little modification, on BSD systems too !

BUT, I think you meant pre-packaged applications from one system will not install correctly on another.

hmm... well for Debian based Linux distros there is the Alien package, which will convert RPM files in DEB files.. and vice versa.

So lets look at the whole Linux packaging.

DEB = Used on Debian based systems, Debian, Ubuntu, Mepis: Can be converted by Alien
RPM = Used on Redhat based systems, Redhat, Fedora, Mandriva: Can be converted by Alien
TGZ - Used by Slackware based systems, Slackware, Vectorlinux: Source code tarball that should compile on any other system.


So, can you now tell me how I can install Halo 2 on an XP machine ?

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Comment by moleskine
by jabbotts on Thu 5th Jun 2008 12:33 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by moleskine"
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

your win64 compiled apps run on win2k?

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Comment by moleskine
by melkor on Thu 5th Jun 2008 03:14 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by moleskine"
melkor Member since:
2006-12-16

And that is both Linux' strongest and weakest points. Choice is good, but only if your market is capable of making use of the choice. Your average computer user doesn't give a flying **** about choice, they just want it to work. Too much choice is confusing, and therefore undesirable.

All the people pushing Linux just must not be able to look at computers and software from the eyes of the average user, cos Linux keeps making the same mistakes.

One DE. One package management system. One distro. That is the ONLY way Linux will go forward in the market. We'll still be here in 20 years with Linux having 3% of the market I honestly believe, unless things change.

Dave

Reply Score: 6

RE[4]: Comment by moleskine
by agrouf on Thu 5th Jun 2008 08:55 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by moleskine"
agrouf Member since:
2006-11-17

I don't believe it has anything to do with choice.
Linux is just a kernel. The OS is Mandriva, Ubuntu, Linpus, Xandros, Fedora, XP, Vista and OpenSuse.
Mandriva packages are not compatible with Ubuntu packages, yes. But neither are Windows XP packages with Fedora ones. Here it's not a problem of unity. Mandriva is united, and so is Fedora, Ubuntu and Windows XP.
And yes, 1000 copies of Windows XP are sold when one Ubuntu is installed. You believe it's because Ubuntu is not compatible with Mandriva? I don't think so. Look at reactos. reactos is (at least aims at) compatible with windows. Do you know reactos? How many people know Reactos?
The problem is elsewhere in my opinion.
I'd point out the egg and the chicken problem. Applications are not ported to Ubuntu or Fedora because almost nobody use them, whereas everybody use Windows. Everybody use Windows because the apps are available. People know windows and they buy Windows because their neightbour use Windows.
Ubuntu and Mandriva have a compatibility layer (wine), which is almost stable at version 1 (release candidate 3 as I speack). Reactos is fully compatible. Most Windows apps work on wine and therefore on Ubuntu and Mandriva. And yet, people don't know it.
The biggest problem here is marketing. Mandriva is free. Mandriva has not the same money as Microsoft to advertise and will never pay Acer to put their OS on their computer. Another chicken and egg problem. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. This always has been and this always will be. The monopoly sustains itself and nothing can change that.

Edited 2008-06-05 08:58 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: Comment by moleskine
by Cymro on Thu 5th Jun 2008 17:22 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by moleskine"
Cymro Member since:
2005-07-07

I can't believe that you're using ReactOS as an example of the failure of open-source to get a userbase. ReactOS is not "fully compatible" as you state, and it's currently alpha-quality software at version 0.3.4. It tells you right there, in bold, on their web-site that it's not for everyday use. Perhaps you're claiming the same for Wine, but regardless of whether it's at version 1.0 or 3.0, it does not run every Windows application flawlessly.

There are many reasons why it's taken Linux a long time to gain a userbase, but your argument that "it hasn't happened yet, so it's never going to happen" is just a big blanket denial of all future developments. If that were fair, we wouldn't even see the mainstream Linux devices that are appearing now.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by moleskine
by melkor on Thu 5th Jun 2008 23:36 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by moleskine"
melkor Member since:
2006-12-16

Firstly, don't nitpick me about Linux is only the kernel, I'm well and truly aware of it and was probably using Linux before you were (circa 97). I used Linux as a generic term, because that's what most people do (mistakenly I do admit).

Yes, I know of reactos - alpha quality software, probably always will remain alphaware due to the small numbers both using, and developing it.

Microsoft is part of the reason why Linux is not seeing further adoption, but only part of the problem.

Get out and talk to ordinary users - ordinary people. You will see that the vast majority of them both dislike computers, and do not understand both the technology, and how to use them, at least to varying degrees. Herein lies the problem. When someone doesn't understand something, they dislike complexity, or choice. Choice means more things to think or worry about, or to try and understand. When people just want to use something to get the job done, they don't want to have to think about it. The trained monkey scenario is sadly quite true in the average home/workplace.

All this choice - Ubuntu, Fedora, Suse, Mandriva and so on and forth only splinters the Linux machine. The same applies to package management systems etc and desktop environments. Linux needs to adopt the freebsd approach - one system. It'll make things easier for adoption by system manufacturers. At the moment, Linux is a nightmare to ensure compatibility. Imagine you're a super application writer like Adobe. Getting a Linux release of Photoshop will probably not happen, because making it install on a current Linux distribution might be easy, but on all of them, with different system locations? Doubtful, complex and expensive. Making it work on older Linux systems with different versions of glibc? Forget it. Whilst Windows isn't perfect, it's a helluva lot better than Linux in this respect. Something made for Vista will almost certainly (in most cases) install on Windows 98 and vice versa.

Dave

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Comment by moleskine
by lemur2 on Fri 6th Jun 2008 12:58 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by moleskine"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

You will see that the vast majority of them both dislike computers, and do not understand both the technology, and how to use them, at least to varying degrees. Herein lies the problem. When someone doesn't understand something, they dislike complexity, or choice. Choice means more things to think or worry about, or to try and understand. When people just want to use something to get the job done, they don't want to have to think about it. The trained monkey scenario is sadly quite true in the average home/workplace.

All this choice - Ubuntu, Fedora, Suse, Mandriva and so on and forth only splinters the Linux machine.


For the type of user that you describe, a Linux ULPC (such as the EEEPC or this new Acer One) is actually an ideal and non-confusing choice.

The OS is pre-installed, all the useful applications are pre-installed ... you don't have to get anything extra, no setup required, turn it on and go ... and most importantly you don't have to bother about hard-to-understand choices ... you can just turn it on and go.

Meanwhile, because the kernel is Linux and the drivers are open source ... no-one who does want to make a different choice is excluded either. Just put Mandriva 2008.1 or Ubuntu Remix on your machine if you want to ... the machine runs Linux, and if it runs one Linux it runs them all.

Best of both worlds. Everybody wins.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Comment by moleskine - goals
by jabbotts on Thu 5th Jun 2008 12:39 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by moleskine"
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

Is the goal to kill Microsoft?
Is the goal to take the market?
Is the goal to have great software that can be studied?

For many, the goal is simply good software without synthetic limitations.

"Linux" is the commodity part which many have chosen to build there own specialized distribution with. Turns out, it supports a boggling wide array of different uses.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by moleskine
by jabbotts on Thu 5th Jun 2008 12:32 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by moleskine"
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

There is just one Linux; there are multiple distinctly different but very similar OS distributions that choose to use Linux as there kernel.

I like Mandriva OS which happens to use the Linux kernel. Other's like Debian OS while Ubuntu OS is the favourite in the media.

(I just get so tired of "there should be only one distribution" crap because choice and evolution through darwinism are two of the biggest strengths)

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by moleskine
by h3rman on Thu 5th Jun 2008 07:06 UTC in reply to "Comment by moleskine"
h3rman Member since:
2006-08-09

... I'm suspicious of quite a lot of the Linux noise around these new "laptots". You'd think that if some of the hardware companies - many of them big names - behind these new machines were really serious, they'd be using solid and well-known distros.


That's pretty irrelevant, given the fact that Xandros, for instance, is Debian based. It's a bit outdated but it's stable.
Please don't forget that in order for Linux to make an impression on non-fanboys it has first and foremost to be stable. Believe me, nobody cares what the distro is.

Instead they are using no-name stuff and home-brew. It's hardly a vote of confidence in Red Hat/Fedora, SuSE, Mandriva or Ubuntu all of whom have topnotch, tried and tested desktop offerings.


No-name stuff and home-brew, irrelevant categories in the Linux/FLOSS world. Four years ago, nobody had ever heard of Ubuntu.

This couldn't be, could it, because the Far Eastern hardware outfits don't give a rat's posterior about Linux itself, and probably don't understand it as an eco-system either.


That's obvious in any corporocracy. But are you claiming that Novell does? Or IBM? Don't be shocked if I tell you that they're in it for the money too, and nothing else. No FLOSS "ideals" there either. Just a model of making money.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Comment by moleskine
by moleskine on Thu 5th Jun 2008 07:21 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by moleskine"
moleskine Member since:
2005-11-05

"Four years ago, nobody had ever heard of Ubuntu."

And in four years' time, how many people do you think will have hard of Linpus, a name that sounds like a nasty boil? I suspect you're making a false comparison. Hardware makers are interested in profits from hardware; they have no commitment to a Linux distribution, unless they think they are in a business different from the one they are actually in. Canonical have made Ubuntu a success because they are interested in Linux and F/OSS.

Actually, I've read that the Dell ultra-mobile may pack Ubuntu, which is surely good news. Which means that Dell owners can look forward to some solid support from a large community of developers and a solid upgrade path for years to come. Somehow, that's got to be rather more than Linpus-fanciers are likely to get. I mean, how many Far Eastern hardware companies are known for supporting their products rather than dumping them after 6-12 months?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by moleskine
by h3rman on Thu 5th Jun 2008 08:00 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by moleskine"
h3rman Member since:
2006-08-09

"Four years ago, nobody had ever heard of Ubuntu." And in four years' time, how many people do you think will have hard of Linpus, a name that sounds like a nasty boil? I suspect you're making a false comparison.


I was merely stating that being "no-name", "home-brew" means nothing. There isn't any kind of moral obligation on the part of OEMs to install distros like Ubuntu. Ubuntu is simply not as stable as RHEL, Xandros, Debian Stable or other distros that many Linux hipsters look down upon because its either corporate, or old, or non-shiny, or whatever. Stability and things being extremely well-tested is a thousand times more important than the latest Compiz plugin running on the latest X.org beta.

Hardware makers are interested in profits from hardware; they have no commitment to a Linux distribution, unless they think they are in a business different from the one they are actually in.


Sorry for asking, but what point are you trying to make? Of course they are. They're not a charity. Do you think they care about non-FLOSS software? They don't care as long as it works for the consumer and it works for them.
Obviously, you're right about that last part, but your scorn of the non-cool distros is just not realistic.

Canonical have made Ubuntu a success because they are interested in Linux and F/OSS. Actually, I've read that the Dell ultra-mobile may pack Ubuntu, which is surely good news. Which means that Dell owners can look forward to some solid support from a large community of developers and a solid upgrade path for years to come.


What do you mean, that people that just want to use their laptop are going to RTFM, JFGI and scroll down thousands of Ubuntu forums? Who says that a company cannot give support?
There is a difference between Linux fans and Linux users. My dad would never google a problem with his Linux desktop, he calls me. And he's right. Why do Linux fans, a group among which I could count myself, pretend that all Linux users are studying for their RHCE??

Somehow, that's got to be rather more than Linpus-fanciers are likely to get. I mean, how many Far Eastern hardware companies are known for supporting their products rather than dumping them after 6-12 months?


What's that about? In what sense are Asus, Sony, Lenovo, Acer, MSI, Toshiba, Fujitsu Siemens, Samsung, more likely to give consumers the finger than HP, Apple or Dell? Does it matter what the origin of the corporation is? It's all more or less a multinational business anyway.

This is about corporations finally becoming a bit more independent of MS. That's in itself an interesting development, especially since this is not a one-dimensional process. Xandros is clearly a MS satellite, a more interesting question would be if this Linpus business is *less* so. I suspect it actually is more independent.
Don't forget on every Asus Eee there's a few bucks in it for Microsoft. Most people don't even know, though.

Reply Score: 7

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

Didn't Nintendo just recently stop supporting the first or second generation console? hehe.. must be just another far east company dropping the product 6 to 12 months out.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by moleskine
by lemur2 on Fri 6th Jun 2008 12:40 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by moleskine"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

And in four years' time, how many people do you think will have hard of Linpus, a name that sounds like a nasty boil?


It doesn't matter ... Linux is Linux. Different distributions package together different application sets ... but there is only one Linux kernel.

The drivers are part of the kernel. The fact that Acer runs Linpus Linux means it runs the Linux kernel, and that Linux drivers exists for all of its hardware.

That means I can put Mandriva 2008.1 on it, or Ubuntu Remix, or any other Linux varinat designed for one of these ULPMC machines ... and it will run. Guaranteed.

All of the applications are the same anyway ... OpenOffice 2.3 running on Linpus Lite is the same application as OpenOffice 2.3 running on Ubuntu.

It doesn't amtter one whit if Linpus Linux does not exist in four years time ... your machine will still be supported by some Linux distribution somewhere, and you will still be able to run all of the latest updates of the same applications.

Don't sweat it ... and don't get so mired in Windows-think.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by moleskine
by Zaitch on Thu 5th Jun 2008 12:20 UTC in reply to "Comment by moleskine"
Zaitch Member since:
2007-11-23

I'm suspicious of quite a lot of the Linux noise around these new "laptots". You'd think that if some of the hardware companies - many of them big names - behind these new machines were really serious, they'd be using solid and well-known distros. Instead they are using no-name stuff and home-brew. It's hardly a vote of confidence in Red Hat/Fedora, SuSE, Mandriva or Ubuntu all of whom have topnotch, tried and tested desktop offerings.


You are right in what you say - all these distros are great

But what happens when (say) ubuntu upgrades from 8.04 to 9.xx? When all those acer "laptot" users click "upgrade my distribution" and it has some flaw that renders it inoperable on all those laptots?

Acer suddenly is faced with a support nightmare across tens of thousnads of users and horrific bad press, and the majority of these will be casual users without a clue how to fix it -> call Acer, who may not even be able to do anything once the damage is done.

that is why they won't trust their name to an external entity, no matter how good it is right now, they want confidence and testing on their own distro they control.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by moleskine
by apoclypse on Thu 5th Jun 2008 14:38 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by moleskine"
apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

" I'm suspicious of quite a lot of the Linux noise around these new "laptots". You'd think that if some of the hardware companies - many of them big names - behind these new machines were really serious, they'd be using solid and well-known distros. Instead they are using no-name stuff and home-brew. It's hardly a vote of confidence in Red Hat/Fedora, SuSE, Mandriva or Ubuntu all of whom have topnotch, tried and tested desktop offerings.


You are right in what you say - all these distros are great

But what happens when (say) ubuntu upgrades from 8.04 to 9.xx? When all those acer "laptot" users click "upgrade my distribution" and it has some flaw that renders it inoperable on all those laptots?

Acer suddenly is faced with a support nightmare across tens of thousnads of users and horrific bad press, and the majority of these will be casual users without a clue how to fix it -> call Acer, who may not even be able to do anything once the damage is done.

that is why they won't trust their name to an external entity, no matter how good it is right now, they want confidence and testing on their own distro they control.
"

They can do what Dell does and have Canonical support the OS themselves. Not only does Canonical get user feedback and customer service experience but Acer doesn't have to support the OS themselves other than your basic troubleshooting steps. They can roll the cost of service into the price of the netbook or provide an extended service package where users can pay an extra fee for Canonical's service. I mean this is how companies like Red Hat built their corporation, the distro is free, its the support that people pay for.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by moleskine
by lemur2 on Fri 6th Jun 2008 12:21 UTC in reply to "Comment by moleskine"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Some of these new gizmos look very nice; some not so nice. I guess it will be a few months before Intel's Atom beds down, though.

I'm suspicious of quite a lot of the Linux noise around these new "laptots". You'd think that if some of the hardware companies - many of them big names - behind these new machines were really serious, they'd be using solid and well-known distros. Instead they are using no-name stuff and home-brew. It's hardly a vote of confidence in Red Hat/Fedora, SuSE, Mandriva or Ubuntu all of whom have topnotch, tried and tested desktop offerings.

This couldn't be, could it, because the Far Eastern hardware outfits don't give a rat's posterior about Linux itself, and probably don't understand it as an eco-system either. It's just cheap and Microsoft, caught napping, didn't have a ready OS to slot into the machines. As others have pointed out, wads of cash are only too likely to decide this one. Like any company, Acer are betting big on profits, not on an operating system.

I'm looking forward to see what the Dell offering turns out to be like, or even a Mac one which would be really k.


EEEPC uses Xandros (based in turn on Debian). Xandros is based in Canada.

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=xandros

HP 2133 mini-note uses SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10.

MSI Wind uses SuSe.

Wallmart's Cloudbook uses gOS, which in turn is Ubuntu-based.

Acer uses Linpus Lite ... which in turn is based on Fedora.

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=linpus


Dell already uses Ubuntu ... so Dell's upcoming mini-Inspiron is most likely to use Ubuntu remix, IMO.

Reply Score: 3

Acer website is teh suck...
by umccullough on Thu 5th Jun 2008 00:03 UTC
umccullough
Member since:
2006-01-26

I'll believe this when Acer cleans up their website to be alt-os friendly, and gets rid of the "best viewed with IE6..." bullshit.

Until then, I chalk it up to "me too" marketing.

Reply Score: 12

RE: Acer website is teh suck...
by wannabe geek on Thu 5th Jun 2008 17:09 UTC in reply to "Acer website is teh suck..."
wannabe geek Member since:
2006-09-27

Besides, I tried to find some more info in their site and got this:

-----
HTTP 403.9 - Access Forbidden: Too many users are connected
Internet Information Services

More information:
Microsoft Support
-------

So much for betting big on Linux
;D

Reply Score: 2

Comment by satan666
by satan666 on Thu 5th Jun 2008 00:33 UTC
satan666
Member since:
2008-04-18

Even if Acer vents the Linux thing to get a discount from Microsoft it is still great news. The simple thing that another hardware vendor will sell linux PCs is great news. Microsoft was caught with the pants down. Maybe Bill $ Steve will try to put together a Windows version for Acer, maybe they will even succeed. Still the fact that Acer will offer an alternative to Windows, is great news. The market share of Linux will go only up. Steady but up.

Reply Score: 4

Also known as (this is the reality)
by Anon on Thu 5th Jun 2008 01:42 UTC
Anon
Member since:
2006-01-02

"ACER is pushing aggressively to secure big discount on it's Windows volume liscense agreement with Microsoft, by saying they'll sell Linux (and to not actually bother), they'll scare Microsoft, get a big discount like the OLPC folks did, and profit."

You SERIOUSLY think ACER wants to waste money selling Linux to a few Zealots?

A: Nup!

Reply Score: 1

tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

"ACER is pushing aggressively to secure big discount on it's Windows volume liscense agreement with Microsoft, by saying they'll sell Linux (and to not actually bother), they'll scare Microsoft, get a big discount like the OLPC folks did, and profit." You SERIOUSLY think ACER wants to waste money selling Linux to a few Zealots? A: Nup!


Sadly, I have to agree. I don't think that Acer has the stones to primarily offer Linux (because, let's face it, the market for Linux is still nascent) so, really, this just seems to be a play to reduce its Windows OEM licensing costs. We can confirm this within a few months by going to Acer's website: If they aren't promoting Linux models, we'll know they were full of it.

Edited 2008-06-05 02:20 UTC

Reply Score: 5

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

They dont sell Linux, they sell computers. They really dont care what OS is on it as long as a) it is cost effective and b) the customer is happy with it.

Reply Score: 7

netpython Member since:
2005-07-06

"You SERIOUSLY think ACER wants to waste money selling Linux to a few Zealots? "

So analogue everyone who lacks $1000 is a zealot?

Reply Score: 4

Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

* Acer sold millions ...
* Asus sold millions ...
* Dell Sold millions ...

Etc ...

They are all increasing there GNU/Linux offers and even GNU/Linux is behind the netbook category ...

Reality is that there is no zealot as reportaed by anonymous coward like you and others here but millions of clients and that the OEM are making sure they are competiting for that high paying market category.

That don't mean Windows won't be offered , just yet , just that it's not going to be the only choice available on some models.

Reply Score: 2

hamster Member since:
2006-10-06

* Acer sold millions ...
* Asus sold millions ...
* Dell Sold millions ...


Care to provide anything to backup your claims? Dell wouldn't tell how much they sold last time they were mentioned in an articel here on osnews.


Reality is that there is no zealot as reportaed by anonymous coward like you and others here but millions of clients and that the OEM are making sure they are competiting for that high paying market category.


But reality is what you claim it is..?


That don't mean Windows won't be offered , just yet , just that it's not going to be the only choice available on some models.


And thats good as long as i don't have to pay some linux tax insted of a windows tax.

Reply Score: 4

Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

"Care to provide anything to backup your claims?"


We already established numerous time before That I unlike you don't make claims or lies or inuendo ...

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8541837412.html

http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/tags/Linux/default.aspx

http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2005/05/03/acer-starts-...

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071105-game-changer-asus-eee...

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/laptops/0,39029450,49297132,00.htm

http://gizmodo.com/5012578/msi-wind-priced-to-kick-assus

"Dell wouldn't tell how much they sold last time they were mentioned in an articel here on osnews."


I know Dell or OsNews don't really have an interest in keeping you up to date , since your into bulshit and lies and being a coward ...

But reality is what you claim it is..?


No , Reality is what I say , I dont make claims.

And thats good as long as i don't have to pay some linux tax insted of a windows tax.


GNU/Linux is asked by clients , unlike Windows witch Microsoft bribe it's way into the default.

Theorically Computer from OEM should be available without an OS or with the OS of your choice or with all the OS an OEM can offer on the model. Otherwise your in a Monopoly ( witch Microsoft is convicted off ) or collusion situation ( again Microsoft was convicted of this ).

Apple is the exception as they create there own hardware and there own OS. They also provide the tools to install other OS an don't bar anyone else OS from there computers.

Reply Score: 0

hamster Member since:
2006-10-06


We already established numerous time before That I unlike you don't make claims or lies or inuendo ...


You making your usual claims doesnt make it established...



What a waste of time. You fail yet again at providing anything to backup your claims. The only thing you can show is that the Mac outsells both linux and windows.


I know Dell or OsNews don't really have an interest in keeping you up to date , since your into bulshit and lies and being a coward ...


Sadly for you i don't have to lie to make my point unlike you. I don't have to provide bs claims either again unlike you. But do provide the dell numbers.


No , Reality is what I say , I dont make claims.


But in the real world what you say arent reality.


GNU/Linux is asked by clients , unlike Windows witch Microsoft bribe it's way into the default.


What clients? I'm happy to pay for my software but i don't pay for crapware. Hence i don't wanna pay those OS taxes.


Theorically Computer from OEM should be available without an OS or with the OS of your choice or with all the OS an OEM can offer on the model. Otherwise your in a Monopoly ( witch Microsoft is convicted off ) or collusion situation ( again Microsoft was convicted of this ).


I'd take a computer without a OS everyday in the week.
You started out so good but then you failed yet again. You don't get a monopoly from OEMs only selling pc's with an OS. And you don't get convicted for having a monopoly you get convited for misusing the power that comes with the monopoly thats how it works in the real world but in your world it migth be different.

Reply Score: 2

hamster Member since:
2006-10-06


I dont make claim and yes it's established , sorry for your usual delusion.


What would you call it then?


I agree , your dumb and usal shit are a real waste of time.


The only dumb thing i have done recently is replying to your posts and by that feeding a huge troll.


I failed nothing , I showed , as alwats that I was right and offered many site that provide the information you requested. as always it's not sufficient to please your nonsense and fabultaion.


Uhh big words from a small mind. Do provide those quotes you say show the so called high sale of linux computers.


No It shows that GNU/Linux sells in the millions , that the numbers are on records that many vendors are starting to push more models too and that they make deal at the default level too. Learn to read properly in english ...


It seems your the one with reading and understanding problems. But again you should provide quotes to backup your so called facts.


Your delusionnal , your the one lying right now and all the time ....


And yet your the only one that was cougth in a lie. Again i might add.


I don't make claim , your the one always making BS and you provided absolutely NOTHING.


You got something almost right. I do not provide all that much. I unlike you do try to make sure my claims are backuped by facts. Without me having to provide a bs logic like yours on them to make them fit.


Same offer as always stop being a coward and lets meet in court to prove your point ...


And i would bother because? A quick look shows that most of your posts arent to good. And most arent in touch with reality either.


The one reported in the links I gave that you suddenly went senil in seeing , being included in my last comment ...


First link tells os that OSX outsells windows and that the auther personal seems to think that linux will outsell them both.

Guess the millions of clients must be those asus predicts they will sell in 2008.

Second link tells os that dell will be at Linux Foundation Collaboration Summit. I see thats a big deal.

Third link tells us nothing about numbers but only that acer will be selling linux computers. Who really cares?

Fourth link tells us about asus again without numbers. One could think you wrote it if only it wasnt written by someone with a sane mind.

Fith tells us that dell will join the party with yet another small laptop. Wonder if they will make it same say they do it with the ubuntu offerings.

The last link tells us about the MSI Wind. This one can also be bought as a windows version. Wonder why that is if linux is all that..?


Yes so ? It's personnal preference and like I said , the market nor anyone don't really care about fullfilling the need of an online personna ... The GNU/Linux industry and the GNU/Linux clients on the otehr end are beginning to be satisfied in greater number.


what industry and what clients are you talking about? You claim that i could see what clients it was by reading your links but yet again you failed and was cought in a lie.


I failed at nothing , have never failed responding to you and never will ...


You fail as usual at providing any thing to backup your so called argument


Reality and the courts around the world disgaree with you , as usual...


Because you say so right?


You don't live in the real world Hamster ... that's why you hide your real name.

http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=microsof...

I replyed to you , it is satisfactory for everyone else who is not a moron or coward like you.


I do not live in the kind of world you live in thats right. I don't live in my parents basement.

You might wanna learn the meaning of a monopoly it surely would help you. But then again so would makeing sure your so called facts are facts.

Reply Score: 2

Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

"What would you call it then? "

Recorded facts.

"The only dumb thing i have done recently is replying to your posts and by that feeding a huge troll. "

No , you don't respond or participate you simply insult me.

"Uhh big words from a small mind. Do provide those quotes you say show the so called high sale of linux computers. "

At least I have a mind ... I gave you full article.

" It seems your the one with reading and understanding problems. But again you should provide quotes to backup your so called facts."

I said something witch I backed up with article , that enough for normal people ...

"And yet your the only one that was cougth in a lie. Again i might add."

I made no lie I said Asus , Dell , Acer sold millions of GNU/Linux computer and provided source article to backup that facts. You are the one lying when you say it's not enough and that those where lies ...

"You got something almost right. I do not provide all that much. I unlike you do try to make sure my claims are backuped by facts. Without me having to provide a bs logic like yours on them to make them fit."

No I was 100% right your not providing anything and are just making up lies as usual.

"And i would bother because? A quick look shows that most of your posts arent to good. And most arent in touch with reality either."

Easy money then , but we both know your the one always lying and know that my comment are accurate , they just show the opposite of what you want people to believe.

"First link tells os that ... Wonder why that is if linux is all that..? "

You just confirmed that you did not read entirely the link I gave , sure you took what you wanted from them but the real summary differ from your reworded fabulations ...

"what industry and what clients are you talking about?"

GNU/Linux , GNU/Linux desktop , GNU/Linux OS , etc ...

"You claim that i could ... and was cought in a lie. "

I don't make claims I said anyone not biased and lying like you can see the numbers I am talking about in the links I gave.

"You fail as usual at providing any thing to backup your so called argument"

Now they are arguments ... I did not fail to substantiate my facts about what I said with links that provide information on different vendors.

"Because you say so right?"

Nope , Because the judges and court said so , I am just remembering them and mentioning them.


"I do not live in the kind of world you live in thats right. I don't live in my parents basement. "

You live in your parent hatics , nice of for you ...

"You might wanna learn the meaning of a monopoly it surely would help you. But then again so would makeing sure your so called facts are facts."

I got it right , but we both know your an illegal lying coward , You don't care about fact , reality and the truth or being right , you only care about insulting me.

See you in court when you grow up kid.

Reply Score: 2

elsewhere Member since:
2005-07-13



Am I the only one that finds it ironic that Moulinneuf uses a proprietary closed-source browser?

Reply Score: 5

Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

I use all browsers ( that I know of ) all OS that I know of and all computer system that I know of and have access to.

What's your point ? The fabulation you have of me don't meet reality ? What a surprise !!!

I am using flock now ouhhhhh that's gonna make you the talk of the kennel.

Reply Score: 2

not that big
by be4truth on Thu 5th Jun 2008 02:20 UTC
be4truth
Member since:
2008-06-05

I live in India and bought a Acer laptop recently preinstalled with Linux - I thought.
When I picked it up Windows XP was on it.
I contacted the dealer to at least give me the Linux DVD. I never received it.
When contacting Acer I found out that the Linux laptops 'come with XP' (unlicensed) because otherwise we can't sell them.

Doesn't feel so big. At least not here in India.

Edited 2008-06-05 02:21 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: not that big
by PlatformAgnostic on Thu 5th Jun 2008 09:00 UTC in reply to "not that big"
PlatformAgnostic Member since:
2006-01-02

Are you saying that they ship their laptops with an install of XP that is not properly licensed? I find it hard to believe that such a large manufacturer can get away with that.

Reply Score: 2

Its not that Linux is so great...
by IkeKrull on Thu 5th Jun 2008 04:35 UTC
IkeKrull
Member since:
2006-01-24

Its that Microsoft has completely failed to deliver for OEMs and hardware manufacturers over an over again. PocketPC, TabletPC, UMPC, PlaysforSure MediaCenter PCs - none of the platforms that Microsoft mandates seems to hit the mark as far as the consumer is concerned - And now that somebody has finally come out with a hit hardware formfactor (eeePC), how does MS support them? By grudgingly offering a last-generation OS thats largely unsupported.

Microsoft have just quit serving their OEMs by offering them superior software, preferring to dictate the details of hardware platforms - and acting as if innovative approaches other than those with the 'Invented at Microsoft' stamp simply don't exist.

As an OEM who sees customers crying out for products that don't fit into Microsoft's boxes, this must be highly frustrating.

Reply Score: 3

Great to see this!
by obsidian on Thu 5th Jun 2008 07:05 UTC
obsidian
Member since:
2007-05-12

It'll be really good to see Acer getting aggressive in selling Linux-based systems. Would be good to see them selling BSD-based ones too - maybe they'll eventually do so.

Linux-based systems seem to be being announced almost every week now. The trend to non-MS systems is likely to intensify too, with Haiku and Syllable making good progress. Add in the BSDs, and there are some great options for non-MS systems.

Edited 2008-06-05 07:06 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Linux good, Xandros sucks
by ozonehole on Thu 5th Jun 2008 12:21 UTC
ozonehole
Member since:
2006-01-07

I recently bought an Asus eeePC. Great little machine that fits my needs. It's just a pity that they put Xandros on it rather than a "real" Linux distro. Fortunately, with some effort you can install either Pupeee (Puppy Linux for eeePC) or eeeXubuntu.

It's not that Xandros has to be retarded. In fact, at first glance, this easy-to-use distro looks like just the ticket to give Windows a run for its money. So what's my complaint?

To begin with, it's totally insecure (at least the version on the eeePC is). To make it fit into a small memory footprint, they didn't even compile iptables into the kernel. That means that there's no firewall, and it's not possible for you to enable one unless you recompile the kernel. And recompiling the kernel isn't exactly a "user-friendly" activity that will attract newbies.

You'd have a hard time recompiling anyway seeing how Xandros doesn't come with a compiler, nor is there even a terminal window so that geeks can get to the command line to fix this insecure system. To make matters worse, it comes with a bunch of dangerous daemons enabled by default (ie Samba) which aren't necessary and open new security holes. From what I've been reading, people are saying that Xandros users often get rooted within an hour of connecting to the Internet.

If interested in Pupeee, go here:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?search_id=1743416936&t=2...

If interested in eeeXubuntu:

http://wiki.eeeuser.com/ubuntu:eeexubuntu:home?s=eeexubuntu

Reply Score: 1

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

I believe Mandriva has an Eee friendly build also. I've been seeing more and more of those 480/240 ratio screenshots for different Distros too.

For me, the excitment will be seeing more distros booting on the Nokia N series. I hear Debian boots on the N810 with full support except for the gps or some other odd piece.

Reply Score: 2

A sempron laptop
by fithisux on Thu 5th Jun 2008 14:18 UTC
fithisux
Member since:
2006-01-22

with Fedora9 and/or Belenix seems YUMMY!!! I do not want to pay the Microsoft tax if I choose not.

Reply Score: 2

Good News.
by gan17 on Thu 5th Jun 2008 18:33 UTC
gan17
Member since:
2008-06-03

I'm new to Linux.

This seems to be good news.... for the moment. As many have stated, Microsoft may wave some money to their faces and all that.... but I'm going to be optimistic. It may be Novell's (Microsoft's slightly less evil twin) Suse Linux Enterprise.... but I'm hoping they optimize the hardware for most of the popular distro's.

Ubuntu 8.04 seems to have got hardware detection down pretty good.... and the next version promises even better wireless networking and maybe even 3G/3.5G connectivity (sayonara ndiswrapper).

Here's hoping more manufacturer's follow suit....including my favorites, NEC and Fujitsu. ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Good News.
by lemur2 on Fri 6th Jun 2008 12:51 UTC in reply to "Good News."
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Ubuntu 8.04 seems to have got hardware detection down pretty good.... and the next version promises even better wireless networking and maybe even 3G/3.5G connectivity (sayonara ndiswrapper).


Most "generic" Linux distributions and all Linux LiveCDs ship with "every driver there is" and a good on-boot hardware detection algorithm.

This is not necessary with one of these ULPCs that are designed to run Linux, and which have a known, and fixed, hardware configuration.

This is part of the reason why these new breed of Linux ULPCs boot so quickly ... they don't have to do hardware detection.

Reply Score: 3