Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 25th Jun 2008 22:47 UTC, submitted by Flatland_Spider
Windows We're really on the subject of software installation issues on OSNews lately, and this story, making its rounds on the internet, fits in quite well. Back in the day, during the antitrust lawsuits against Microsoft, Microsoft had to make a whole slew of corporate email public. In light of Gates' imminent withdrawal from Microsoft, SeattlePI dug up a little gem among these emails, one in which Bill Gates goes on a full-blown rant about the difficulties he had trying to download and install Windows MovieMaker, back in 2003.
Order by: Score:
well
by stabbyjones on Wed 25th Jun 2008 23:16 UTC
stabbyjones
Member since:
2008-04-15

if that email was from 2003 why does microsoft.com still suck to use?

does he have to complain about everything to get things done?

Reply Score: 9

RE: well
by whartung on Wed 25th Jun 2008 23:50 UTC in reply to "well"
whartung Member since:
2005-07-06

Ya know, that seemed like a pretty matter of fact email. I don't know if I'd consider it angry or not.

But think if this happened at Apple.

Jobs wouldn't be sending an email, he'd be in someones (or several someones) faces, exploding and covering them with froth and spittle.

It's easy to disregard this email and file it under "yea, we should do something about that".

I imagine, however, that being in an angry Jobs RDF puts a little more fire in to someone.

It never ceases to amaze me how easy stuff is to install on the Mac. I always feel like I'm missing something. I'll gladly pay the download and extra disk space these apps take for that simplicity.

Reply Score: 8

RE[2]: well
by jabbotts on Thu 26th Jun 2008 12:14 UTC in reply to "RE: well"
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

Even better. Imagine the coked up Jobs (Disclamer; It seems the behavior presented if not the recreation chosen at the time but that's not a claim of fact by me) of the early years. Those years when he'd show up to interviews barefoot and kick the applications that wore suits out half way through..

Oh man I'd love to be a fly on the wall just to watch that. "And then Jobs snapped.. he lost it.. he fakes the developer out with a kind comment and a left hook then circles right.." hehehe.. this is going to keep me giggling all day..

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: well - ease of use
by jabbotts on Thu 26th Jun 2008 12:19 UTC in reply to "RE: well"
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

(second reply but it doesn't relate to the smartss first reply)

That was my biggest problem when I first started mucking with osX; it was too easy. I was sure I'd missed something. I had to install VLC so I downloaded it and a compressed file apeared on the desktop. I double clicked and there was a text file and an icon. I moved the icon to the list of programs then though; "ok, now what do I do to finalize this sucker so I can use it.. crap.. that's it? That can't be it.. where are the files, where are the save data folders?"

Everything became clear when I found my way to the terminal, saw that Unix cli stairing back at me and discovered the rest of the program files within the subdirectories manipulated as a single object through the icon representation.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: well
by Soulbender on Fri 27th Jun 2008 04:20 UTC in reply to "RE: well"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

But think if this happened at Apple.

Jobs wouldn't be sending an email, he'd be in someones (or several someones) faces, exploding and covering them with froth and spittle.


So what you're saying is that Gates is more professional than Jobs.
Being in your subordinates face spitting and frothing isn't good management.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by MechaShiva
by MechaShiva on Wed 25th Jun 2008 23:23 UTC
MechaShiva
Member since:
2005-07-06

I almost feel guilty, but reading that email made me smile.

I know Microsoft isn't a monlithic company by any stretch of the imagination, despite the branding. However, when the Chariman of the Board is as far out of sync with what the lawyers are telling the product managers are telling team leaders are telling the devs to actually do, how can you help but chuckle? And compared to Windows Vista, Microsoft.com is a usability dream.

That's just rough.

Reply Score: 7

microsoft.com rant
by google_ninja on Wed 25th Jun 2008 23:23 UTC
google_ninja
Member since:
2006-02-05

What has consistently amazed me for years now is how poor the website of the biggest tech company in the world is. Apart from poor design and ugly aesthetic, it is virtually impossible to find anything you are looking for. It is an order of magnitude easier to use google to get to a microsoft page then it is to use their search engine, which I have never had return the results I wanted before.

It doesn't stop there. MSDN and Technet have a ton of phenomenal documentation. I mean, I have been using the Microsoft DHTML reference way back since I was doing JSP work for firefox browsers deploying to solaris servers with an oracle backend.

But the same issues plague their tech sites. A ridiculous amount of poorly performing javascript to create a ui that is not only ugly and sluggish, but a pain to navigate. And again, a search function that is unique in how it never returns what you want. You would think that eventually with enough queries you would get good results for something, if by nothing more then plain dumb luck. nope. It is almost like they deliberately are trying to make a poor search engine.

It completely boggles my mind, and has for years.

Reply Score: 8

RE: microsoft.com rant
by sbergman27 on Thu 26th Jun 2008 20:07 UTC in reply to "microsoft.com rant"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

[quote]It completely boggles my mind, and has for years.[/quote]
Not surprising, really. Why should they work to make it better? Its users have to go there anyway.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: microsoft.com rant
by google_ninja on Thu 26th Jun 2008 20:53 UTC in reply to "RE: microsoft.com rant"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

Not really. The user part of the site is pretty much a sales pitch. Its the tech professionals that have to go there, and usually MS treats us like kings.

MS should be outsourcing the site to a web design firm. If they are already, they should fire that firm and hire another one.

Reply Score: 2

JonathanBThompson
Member since:
2006-05-26

This email indicates that regardless of all the naysayers, at least Bill Gates himself cares about quality enough to do something about it, to the best of his abilities in terms of his time and personal efforts. Unfortunately, it seems there's not enough like him that work for him to come up with proper consistency! I, too, would get very frustrated to have to deal with this all the time as a lead geek, and of course, his fortunes (which he probably doesn't care that much about, as it's moot) are affected by this, but, more than anything, his personal pride is.

Reply Score: 6

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

Would he have cared if it hadn't inconvenienced him? Us techs have been picking up the pieces from this kind of mess for years but when we say anything, we're naysayers. Odd how there wasn't any improvement in either the "last sane place" add/remove or in the website design. I still have a long list of "update Q3243219" left in my add/remove and if these are updates, why don't they just replace the files they update rather than make an add/remove entry; it's not like we're going to remove them later else it wouldn't be an OS Update Patch.

The letter was a great read when it hit the news sights though. A bunch of the regulars elsewhere have been trying to find any evidence that it's a hoax but it keeps turning up on reputable servers.

Reply Score: 3

BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

"Would he have cared if it hadn't inconvenienced him?"

No, he wouldn't have, because it would have worked. When was the last time you complained about something that works? Hows he supposed to know if something works if he doesn't try it?

Reply Score: 2

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

I don't mean if he'd tried it and it had worked flawlessly would he still complain.. that's just foolishness. Of course rational people don't complain because something works.

I should elaborate, if he hadn't tried to install Movie Maker and only heard of it not working for other people.. would he have taken such concern?

Reply Score: 2

BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

Hard to say, really, but we haven't seen the other 200,000 emails he has sent, so it's hard to say. I know that he sent an email about the security problems with XP in 2002.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2...

So I tend to think he might act on complaints, at least some of the time. Security today with Windows and Office has improved greatly.

Edited 2008-06-26 20:45 UTC

Reply Score: 2

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

I know he used to regularily send "good work" email to indavidual developers when he had the chance to do code review and spotted something particularily eligant. Once you get a business too the size of MS, it's a whole other animal though. I'd also like to think he's constantly pusing for product quality but that makes me wonder why he hasn't pushed the testing budget to back it.

Either way, the email was a great read.

Reply Score: 2

Pro-Competition Member since:
2007-08-20

This email indicates that regardless of all the naysayers, at least Bill Gates himself cares about quality enough to do something about it, to the best of his abilities in terms of his time and personal efforts.


Do you mean that "the best of his abilities in terms of his time and personal efforts" is writing an e-mail? He was the boss, wasn't he? Did any of those complaints get fixed?

Who was in charge when the Registry became unusable? Who was in charge when the file system became unusable?

I'm mildly impressed that he at least recognized that those things were broken, but that just makes me angrier that after 10+ years they have done nothing to fix any of it!

Oh well, at least Bill felt better after caring enough to send a nastygram.

P.S. None of this is meant to be offensive to the poster I am replying to. It's just that 15 years as a Windows developer has done its work on my blood pressure.

Reply Score: 1

pompous stranger
Member since:
2006-05-28

Check out #143079.

"The Steve Jobs version:

If the MovieMaker download site isn't working by tomorrow at 6 am I will come down there at 6:01 am and choke the living **** out of all of you."

Reply Score: 15

No Improvement
by LobalSurgery on Wed 25th Jun 2008 23:50 UTC
LobalSurgery
Member since:
2006-09-07

As for the message, Gates smiled and said, "There's not a day that I don't send a piece of e-mail ... like that piece of e-mail. That's my job."

I'm not sure which is more surprising: that Gates is acting as some sort of post-release quality control tester, or that after 5 years and (presumably) many hundreds of such messages, it doesn't seem to have made a difference in the quality and usability of Microsoft.com

In fact, visiting today, the first thing I see is an in-your-face dialogue to install Silverlight. It obscures the rest of the homepage until I either decline or accept. Gee, thanks.

Reply Score: 7

RE: No Improvement
by Soulbender on Thu 26th Jun 2008 05:24 UTC in reply to "No Improvement"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I dont know what microsoft.com you went to but the one I tried sure didnt have a gigantic dialog about installing silverlight. All I see is a small "bubble" about trying the site in silverlight. Not obtrusive in any way.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: No Improvement
by Splinter on Thu 26th Jun 2008 06:09 UTC in reply to "RE: No Improvement"
Splinter Member since:
2005-07-13

I dont know what microsoft.com you went to but the one I tried sure didnt have a gigantic dialog about installing silverlight. All I see is a small "bubble" about trying the site in silverlight. Not obtrusive in any way.


I just went to www.microsoft.com and got the "big window" like the parent post. Using Firefox 3.0.
This is the first time I have gone to microsoft.com in a LONG time so maybe it depends on browser and/or cookies.

EDIT... Just checked, went back to the sight and only the "small bubble" now. So it seems that cookies on the browser are involved as to what you see.

Edited 2008-06-26 06:17 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: No Improvement
by Soulbender on Fri 27th Jun 2008 04:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: No Improvement"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Aha, now that you mention it I do recall getting that hideously obtrusive window about installing Silverlight some time ago.

Reply Score: 2

Way too much to comment....
by Phloptical on Thu 26th Jun 2008 00:23 UTC
Phloptical
Member since:
2006-10-10

There is just so, so much to comment on in that email. It's a beautiful piece of work. I had to keep reminding myself that the owner of the company, who has single-handedly forced Windows down the collective throats of the computing world, composed this email.

This email should be broken down and analyzed sentence by sentence as it contains enough fodder to keep OS News going for at least 3 months. Paul Thurrott is probably reading that and weeping in the corner of his basement.

Anyway, my favorite part (other than the Moviemaker bashing) was this...

"Someone decided to trash the one part of Windows that was usable? The file system is no longer usable. The registry is not usable. This program listing was one sane place but now it is all crapped up."

Let's analyze, shall we? "The one part of windows that was usable." Ladies and germs, this email was written almost 2 years after XP went gold. Astounding. I now have a new-found affection for Bill Gates. It's very clear that Microsoft ran Bill Gates, not the other way around.

To that end, I will say this....Moviemaker is crap. Complete and utter crap. It's disgraceful to force your public to have to use that garbage.

Reply Score: 10

RE: Way too much to comment....
by sagum on Thu 26th Jun 2008 01:19 UTC in reply to "Way too much to comment...."
sagum Member since:
2006-01-23

Gates noted that Microsoft plans to include Movie Maker as part of Windows Live, so people will get the program when they download that online package.

Hopefully the Live team will get hold of this application and do their magic. So far, the upgrades they've provided on the other parts of the live suite have been good. Not as good as something from Apple, but it'll be better then the poor software we have at the moment with movie maker.

Reply Score: 2

Phloptical Member since:
2006-10-10

I hope you're right, or at least let it come close to competing with iMovie. Other than the terrible interface and usability, I really also want NOTHING to do with wmv. I want to take a home video off my miniDV camera and burn it to DVD. Period.

IMO, iMovie, iPhoto, and Garageband are the best "me-too" apps there are. Almost worth buying a Mac for.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Way too much to comment....
by jabbotts on Thu 26th Jun 2008 12:30 UTC in reply to "Way too much to comment...."
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

"we never expected anyone to use the download site for actually downloading anything"

That was favourite. I'm just completely stunned that any company would post a website and actually not think it was going to be used. Heck, I put a server on a network feed and I'm already getting visitors trying to do stuff and that's long before I get apache up with a website. Wow..

Reply Score: 2

Phloptical Member since:
2006-10-10

Apparently they also thought that no one would use their eopen site either. It sucks almost as bad as moviemaker. In fact, it loads faster under Firefox....if you can believe it.

Reply Score: 2

This is interesting
by Marcin on Thu 26th Jun 2008 00:52 UTC
Marcin
Member since:
2007-06-06

"they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." :-)

Reply Score: 10

RE: This is interesting
by crdiscoverer on Thu 26th Jun 2008 01:21 UTC in reply to "This is interesting"
crdiscoverer Member since:
2006-04-11

A golden quote indeed.

Reply Score: 2

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

I want it on a shirt.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by apoclypse
by apoclypse on Thu 26th Jun 2008 01:19 UTC
apoclypse
Member since:
2007-02-17

MS is probably buried under so much bureaucracy that getting anything fixed is probably impossible. Windows was never usable and good and I really doubt that Bill had any say in what goes into windows, office, etc. Jobs has say, things get done and having a strong leader is a must for a compnay as big as MS. Ballmer isn't it.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by apoclypse
by Pro-Competition on Thu 26th Jun 2008 21:00 UTC in reply to "Comment by apoclypse"
Pro-Competition Member since:
2007-08-20

MS is probably buried under so much bureaucracy that getting anything fixed is probably impossible.

Whose fault is that? Who built this bureaucracy?

Windows was never usable and good and I really doubt that Bill had any say in what goes into windows, office, etc.

Then who did?!

Jobs has say, things get done and having a strong leader is a must for a compnay as big as MS. Ballmer isn't it.

Apparently Bill wasn't either.

Reply Score: 1

Google is better than Microsoft.com
by pilotgi on Thu 26th Jun 2008 01:26 UTC
pilotgi
Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm not a Windows user but sometimes I'm 'tech support' for friends and relatives who are. Whenever I go to Microsoft's support website I can never find what I'm looking for. Entering a query into the search field returns all kinds of useless articles.

I type the same search into Google and I get exactly what I need, usually links to Microsoft knowledge docs on Microsoft's website that are somehow hidden using their own search protocols.

Loved the article.

Reply Score: 3

Well!!
by Hakime on Thu 26th Jun 2008 02:00 UTC
Hakime
Member since:
2005-11-16

"The email is massively long, but I'm reprinting it here anyway, for a number of reasons. One, it gives a good insight into how Microsoft is very well capable of criticising itself, something some other companies in the same business could take a few pointers from."

That does not make sense to say that. I really doubt that you know what is going on internally in every compagny out there, so your point is nonsense. Microsoft never makes such statement in public as any other compagny. Moreover what we see here is an internal email that should never have been made public, and any other compagny has such internal emails where employees communicates freely. So again what's surprising?

No, the real surprising thing for me is that Gates who is/was supposed to be the Chief Software Architect at Microsoft does not have a clue on what is going on, what the platform is doing and heck he does not how to fix an issue on its own system. I mean, come on, this guy is supposed to be in the computer industry so he should have gone to see the devs, talk to them and even contribute to fix the issue.

But i guess, being a Software Architect does not mean anything at Microsoft and this is all the drama of this compagny....

Reply Score: 2

RE: Well!!
by BSDfan on Thu 26th Jun 2008 04:15 UTC in reply to "Well!!"
BSDfan Member since:
2007-03-14

Bill gates isn't a programmer, and based on this email, much smarter then a novice computer user. (Elementary school qualifications?)

His resume: Some BASIC experience.

Do yourselves a favour, find a real operating system.. where the project leader, is actually a *true* developer. ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Well!!
by Alleister on Thu 26th Jun 2008 06:15 UTC in reply to "RE: Well!!"
Alleister Member since:
2006-05-29

Actually, he is. Read something about Microsofts early years, he even is a more gifted Programmer than the average CS students i encountered based on what software Gates wrote.

Of course when MS reached a certain size it wouldn't have made much sense for him to implement MS Apps himself.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Well!!
by wanker90210 on Thu 26th Jun 2008 08:41 UTC in reply to "RE: Well!!"
wanker90210 Member since:
2007-10-26

I just finished "The rise and fall of Commodore" in the loo (a good book but you're not really a fan of the Gould + Ali combo when you're done). The author gave billg quite some credits when it comes to programming.

I'd rather work at msft than apple without any hesitation whatsoever. Yes, Darth Ballmer and his evil sidekicks are part of the bargain, but Jobs is not and msft have some very cool stuff.

I have a 24" imac, Linux (FC & CentOS) and XP. I like all of them and I occasionally hate all of them.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Well!!
by dbodner on Thu 26th Jun 2008 14:02 UTC in reply to "RE: Well!!"
dbodner Member since:
2007-07-01

Bill gates isn't a programmer, and based on this email, much smarter then a novice computer user. (Elementary school qualifications?)

His resume: Some BASIC experience.

Do yourselves a favour, find a real operating system.. where the project leader, is actually a *true* developer. ;)


I'm a long time linux user, and really dislike windows and what it's become. That being said, you've completely missed the point of his email.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Well!!
by tomcat on Thu 26th Jun 2008 17:27 UTC in reply to "RE: Well!!"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Bill gates isn't a programmer, and based on this email, much smarter then a novice computer user. (Elementary school qualifications?) His resume: Some BASIC experience. Do yourselves a favour, find a real operating system.. where the project leader, is actually a *true* developer. ;)


You don't know WTF you're talking about. Gates wrote one of the first BASIC interpreters for the MITS Altair 8800. He wrote it in assembly language, and it fit into 4K (8K, for a later version) on extremely primitive hardware. Very few of you ass-clowns could do that TODAY, so lighten up on the guy. He's a true developer in every sense. Check the ideology at the door.

Edited 2008-06-26 17:28 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Well!!
by Pro-Competition on Thu 26th Jun 2008 20:52 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Well!!"
Pro-Competition Member since:
2007-08-20

"Bill gates isn't a programmer, and based on this email, much smarter then a novice computer user. (Elementary school qualifications?) His resume: Some BASIC experience. Do yourselves a favour, find a real operating system.. where the project leader, is actually a *true* developer. ;)


You don't know WTF you're talking about. Gates wrote one of the first BASIC interpreters for the MITS Altair 8800. He wrote it in assembly language, and it fit into 4K (8K, for a later version) on extremely primitive hardware. Very few of you ass-clowns could do that TODAY, so lighten up on the guy. He's a true developer in every sense. Check the ideology at the door.
"

I agree with you 100%. (And I suspect that the post you're replying to was tongue-in-cheek.)

But that just makes it worse! He knows better!

Reply Score: 1

This reminds me...
by sakeniwefu on Thu 26th Jun 2008 06:28 UTC
sakeniwefu
Member since:
2008-02-26

...of another great man, who once said: "This is 'high' priority because the wife will kill me if she doesn't have her videos.".

Reply Score: 4

I'm having the same problem!
by TLZ_ on Thu 26th Jun 2008 07:10 UTC
TLZ_
Member since:
2007-02-05

No, really. It's a tad different though, but I'm also trying to get Movie Maker. (Need to do some *very basic* video editing, thought Movie Maker was right for the job.)

I go to MS.com and search of Movie Maker and find Movie Maker download site quickly. There it says if I upgrade to XP SP2 I get movie maker.

The problem is: I'm on XP SP3.

On the side it also said I should see on Windows Update and get it there. So I checked. No Windows Movie Maker.

Reply Score: 1

RE: I'm having the same problem!
by MaxKlokan on Thu 26th Jun 2008 08:58 UTC in reply to "I'm having the same problem!"
MaxKlokan Member since:
2007-12-04

I am not sure, but I think it comes with Windows. Check Add/Remove Windows components

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: I'm having the same problem!
by TLZ_ on Thu 26th Jun 2008 10:11 UTC in reply to "RE: I'm having the same problem!"
TLZ_ Member since:
2007-02-05

It's not there, that was one of the first places I've checked.

Reply Score: 1

Alex Forster Member since:
2005-08-12

Type moviemk in the Run dialog. It's the only way I know how to get it open, short of finding the actual exe.

Reply Score: 2

Kabal Member since:
2005-07-09

Its been on the start menu, in the root under 'All Programs' by default in XP ever since SP2...

Reply Score: 1

so odd
by howiehowie93 on Thu 26th Jun 2008 08:12 UTC
howiehowie93
Member since:
2008-06-26

When I moved from Windoze 2000 to XP Pro, Moviemaker was part of the standard install package. So why would Bill want to down load it anyway?

Reply Score: 1

It wasn't a rant.
by nighty5 on Thu 26th Jun 2008 08:15 UTC
nighty5
Member since:
2005-12-18

I find it hard to see his email being a rant.

His a concerned executive that is passionate about his products and he wants to suceed. I have my reservations about Microsoft, but in the end Gates is completely right - his experience with Moviemaker, the terrible search functionality arguments are completely funded.

We run Sharepoint which drives significant portions of our intellectual property - and the search functionality sucks!

Check this link out, it describes another famous email by Jim Allchin - a Microsoft executive who was comparing Apple's software by sayingg MS had lost its way while painting Apple in a much better light by saying:

"I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft"

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/archives/110354.asp

Now that's some fighting words.

Reply Score: 3

RE: It wasn't a rant.
by LB06 on Thu 26th Jun 2008 09:37 UTC in reply to "It wasn't a rant."
LB06 Member since:
2005-07-06

Oh c'mon. If this isn't a rant then I don't know what is. In any large company this would have been considered inappropriate or at least highly unproffessional. Not to mention the reputation damage that is done to Microsoft, especially in the corporate world.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: It wasn't a rant.
by Soulbender on Fri 27th Jun 2008 04:30 UTC in reply to "RE: It wasn't a rant."
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

In any large company this would have been considered inappropriate or at least highly unproffessional.


The CEO having legitimate concerns about your product is inappropriate? Seriously? I dont know what large companies you've worked for (probably none) but I'm happy I dont work for those if voicing concerns internally about shortcomings in your product is inappropriate.

Not to mention the reputation damage that is done to Microsoft, especially in the corporate world.


You've never read any internal executive emails, have you? Much, much worse things are said in internal emails every day.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by darrelljon
by darrelljon on Thu 26th Jun 2008 09:17 UTC
darrelljon
Member since:
2008-05-29

apt-get install steve-jobs

Reply Score: 1

Microsoft.com is the worst.
by Windows Sucks on Thu 26th Jun 2008 11:44 UTC
Windows Sucks
Member since:
2005-11-10

I hate Windows for the most part, it has its place (Not in my house but other places) but I do Windows support for a living because all that spyware that needs removin pays well!

The one problem I have above ALL others is finding patches on MS.com.

First off I want to shoot the damn site for poppin up "Install Silverlight" On every damn page you go to. If I wanted Silverlight I would of installed it when I went to MS.com. I don't need it 10 layers into the site!

The next thing is the inconsistant way they label patches and the 50 different ways you can install them. Some are MSI's, some EXE's some can be installed silent, some not. Some force reboot, some require reboot but dont force it. And the kicker is having 5 different patches for different applications under the same damn KB number. GURRRRRR. For example there is a patch MS08-026 It applies to problems in Office. So we have Office 2003 SP2 at my site. I download the patch, install it and all is well. A couple of months later I add the Office 2007 compatability pack to our standard image. Go to Microsoft update, install all updates, all is well. I request a security scan of the image from our Sec Ops group and low and behold MS08-026 comes up missing and is a major security risk.

So I check add and remove programs, it's there. I check the registry, it's there. I check with Sec Ops and I find out that there is another patch with a different KB number but the same MS number. Even though this patch is not on the primary download page for MS08-026, even though for the compat pack it says this patch is not needed, there is a patch for the compat pack that has the same MS number but different KB number.

The point is that #1 this missing patch should of shown up on MS's update page. (But a lot of sec patches dont) #2 use a different MS number if the KB number is different. Having the MS number the same but the patch in a different location is silly.

Things like this are all around MAJOR headaches. Gurrrrr!

Reply Score: 2

Interruptions in Installation
by coupdetat on Thu 26th Jun 2008 12:51 UTC
coupdetat
Member since:
2008-06-11

Is anyone else horrified by the way Windows manages update installations? Download for 10 minutes, processes stops to ask you some questions, install for 20 minutes, another set of questions, force restart. It's absolute crap. I don't get how Microsoft never learned to ask users pertinent questions BEFORE patch installation so they don't have to babysit their machines for an hour while it goes along! And MS patch installation is incredibly slow, as Bill Gates also pointed out in his email. Compare this to Apple: All licenses, password prompts, and install options appear right at the beginning so you can spend 3 minutes and then leave the computer alone.

Reply Score: 2

re
by netpython on Thu 26th Jun 2008 16:58 UTC
netpython
Member since:
2005-07-06

[i]"There's not a day that I don't send a piece of e-mail ... like that piece of e-mail. That's my job."/i>

He should have send more e-mails during de development phase of Vista? Or less?

Reply Score: 2

I'd like to see...
by FunkyELF on Thu 26th Jun 2008 19:28 UTC
FunkyELF
Member since:
2006-07-26

I'd like to see a prominent Linux guy like the CEO of Red Hat or Suse complaining about trying to get ATI drivers to work. Wonder if Schwartz uses OpenSolaris personally.

Reply Score: 2