Linked by David Adams on Tue 8th Jul 2008 23:11 UTC
OSNews, Generic OSes We'd like to formally welcome Quentin Hartman, Tony Steidler-Dennison, and Amjith Ramanujam to the OSNews team. We had a huge response to our recent call for contributors, and if you were one of the people who contacted us, we're not done with you yet. Whether you're interested in contributing daily news or writing articles, we'll be contacting you soon, and these new editors are specifically tasked with helping to marshall the efforts of the other contributors. These new editors join Thom Holwerda, who's taking a sabbatical while trying to recover from RSI, David Adams, our Publisher and business manager, Adam Scheinberg, our webmaster and back-end guru, and Eugenia Loli-Queru, who is still occasionally lured out of retirement until the trolls and platform zealots earnest advocates remind her why she found it less stressful to take up videography. Welcome, n00bs!
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Comment by merkoth
by merkoth on Tue 8th Jul 2008 23:32 UTC
Member since:

(...)until the trolls and platform zealots remind her why she found it less stressful to take up videography.

And we trolls and zealots sincerely congratulate her for her decision ;)

It's nice to see new faces, welcome new editors ;)

Reply Score: 15

RE: Comment by merkoth
by hobgoblin on Wed 9th Jul 2008 05:13 UTC in reply to "Comment by merkoth"
hobgoblin Member since:

heh, if one dont like sharks, do not swim in their waters...

but anyways, welcome to the new blood. hope they have taken their rabies shots and remembered their asbesto and chainmail undies...

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by merkoth
by kragil on Wed 9th Jul 2008 10:29 UTC in reply to "Comment by merkoth"
kragil Member since:

Eugenia deserves a lot of respect for all the things she has done for OSnews AND for open source ( gnomefiles etc. ).
I think eventually open source will get to a point where even a "high maintenance chick" ( with regards to software ) like her will like it again.
Might take KDE4.7 and some grand video editing tool on CentOS 7 tho ;) and all ffmpep options turned on ;)

Reply Score: 7

Member since:

I, for one, welcome our new editing overlords!

Reply Score: 2

Comment by apoclypse
by apoclypse on Tue 8th Jul 2008 23:44 UTC
Member since:

Until the trolls and platform zealots earnest advocates remind her why she found it less stressful to take up videography. Welcome, n00bs!

I'm pretty sure she was the one that started the whole mess.

Reply Score: 23

RE: Comment by apoclypse
by David on Tue 8th Jul 2008 23:57 UTC in reply to "Comment by apoclypse"
David Member since:

Is it too soon to try to make light out of a stressful situation? Speaking as a proud "Freetard", I didn't think so.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by apoclypse
by kaiwai on Wed 9th Jul 2008 00:11 UTC in reply to "Comment by apoclypse"
kaiwai Member since:

Until the trolls and platform zealots earnest advocates remind her why she found it less stressful to take up videography. Welcome, n00bs!

I'm pretty sure she was the one that started the whole mess.

I personally don't see anything wrong with what she says. She is very matter-of-fact about what she believes, and I see nothing wrong with that. Its too bad there are too many people far too precious. Instead of acknowledging these issues, these complainers choose to silence her through the moderation system.

Reply Score: 9

RE[2]: Comment by apoclypse
by Nelson on Wed 9th Jul 2008 00:31 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by apoclypse"
Nelson Member since:

I agree, if we have to put up with ranting and opinions from one side then we should be able to hear her side without her being modded down to oblivion.

I didn't find anything specifically wrong with the article, if it's wrong then so be it -- but it's exactly why it's desirable to have a diverse set of editors, it makes it easy to get a more balanced reporting.

If you'd like to read only things which agree with your ideas, then the internet is probably not for you. I'd try talking to yourself in the mirror, or singing in the shower.

Reply Score: 6

RE[3]: Comment by apoclypse
by rexstuff on Wed 9th Jul 2008 14:14 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by apoclypse"
rexstuff Member since:

I'd rather not put up with rantings and baseless opinions from either side. Inappropriate is inappropriate, regardless of where it comes from. One of the reasons I prefer OSNews over other news aggregators like Slashdot or Digg is the much higher quality of both the articles and the commentary. There is some fan-boy-ism, as there is everywhere, but it tends to be better balanced and even more informed, I've found.

As one of the more vocal critics of Eugenia's actions wrt the Linux Hater, I did not intend to defend my statements - they should stand on their own merits - and am generally immune to name-calling. But this notion that we should have let this action stand on the basis that "it's just her opinion" and "everyone should be entitled to their opinion" is disingenuous and must be addressed. That I or anyone else disagreed with her was not (or should not have been) the issue. There is a right way and a wrong way to put forward your opinion.

I am not a troll, nor even a platform zealot. I am an OS enthusiast, which is why I am here. I think all OSes should be criticized and commended, when appropriate, in a fair, honest and open fashion, with the goal of enlightening and informing readers.

I did appreciate that Eugenia brought a viewpoint was at odds with the opinions of most of the readers here. I regret that she will no longer be contributing. I also find it unfortunate that the some of the more zealous among us seized upon this opportunity to initiate name-calling and knee-jerking of their own. Two (or three, or four) wrongs do not make a right.

I would have even ignored the whole issue if Eugenia linked the LH clearly as being a humourous take on the issues that Linux faces. But she didn't, she linked it as a serious article and made it clear that she takes his opinions and point-of-view seriously.

I also would have forgiven the profanity and blatant intention to offend if the LH said anything of real substance. Old, recycled opinions, that attempt to be appear fresh with liberal use of profanity? Just because this sort of behaviour is common on the Internet does not mean it should be encouraged.

I, too, welcome our new editors, and look forward to reading their contributions. I offer a bit of advice: you may not be real 'journalists', as Eugenia pointed out, but that does not mean that professionalism is not a worthwhile goal.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by apoclypse
by legrimpeur on Wed 9th Jul 2008 07:19 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by apoclypse"
legrimpeur Member since:

I second your opinion. The behaviour of some people against Eugenia is a very sad example of what is bad in the human nature. I will be bold in saying that such intolerant behaviour in my opinion is not that far from what brings totalitarisms all over the wolrd...

This doesn't mean that I always agree with her. But I truly admire her ability to look at real essence of problems. Dogmatism and religiousness are generally bad attitudes in life but even more so in IT


Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by apoclypse
by tux2005 on Thu 10th Jul 2008 21:10 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by apoclypse"
tux2005 Member since:

There isn't anything wrong with what she's saying but there is with where she's saying it. I'm all for editors having their opinions but why can't they just put them in the comments like everyone else, the My/Our Take stuff just increases the appearance of bias.

Also posting content that is pretty close to pure flamebait and then not expecting a backlash is a bit silly.

Reply Score: 1

bem vindos
by JrezIN on Wed 9th Jul 2008 00:18 UTC
Member since:

Welcome, n00bs!

Welcome! (I hope you all brought your own shields...)

Reply Score: 2

by Manuma on Wed 9th Jul 2008 00:20 UTC
Member since:

I vote for the Linux Hater for the new editor.

Reply Score: 15

We'll eat you for breakfast
by mikesum32 on Wed 9th Jul 2008 00:57 UTC
Member since:

and make you run home and cry for your mother ;-)

Reply Score: 4

Pot calling the kettle black.
by JMcCarthy on Wed 9th Jul 2008 01:11 UTC
Member since:

Eugenia Loli-Queru, who is still occasionally lured out of retirement until the trolls and platform zealots

She linked to a blatant troll, and as usual couldn't take any criticism so she took her ball and went home. Again.

What she did is like linking to GodHatesFags in the middle of a social debate and then crying when you're derided.

Edited 2008-07-09 01:17 UTC

Reply Score: 15

google_ninja Member since:

You've got to be kidding me.

Linux Hater carries the proud tradition of the flaming of *nix by its users. He obviously uses it on a daily basis, and there is a lot of intelligence in what he says.

Even if that WASNT the case, you have some serious problems if you compare him and that situation to the God Hates Fags guy. One is about computers, the other is about the creator of the universe being a bigot. If you can't tell the difference, you need to get a life in a serious way.

I agree, it was inappropriate to link to something with that level of profanity and vitriol off of this site. But don't blow something out of proportion. Inappropriate and evil are completely and totally different things.

Reply Score: 11

leos Member since:

Even if that WASNT the case, you have some serious problems if you compare him and that situation to the God Hates Fags guy. One is about computers, the other is about the creator of the universe being a bigot.

You're right, Linux Hater is talking about real issues of the Linux operating system that affect real people, while the God Hates Fags guy is assigning an imaginary point of view to an imaginary deity. Big difference.

Then again Linux Hater is just as useless. People pretend like the things he says are even remotely new or useful contributions. All the issues he brings up are very well known problems that require a lot of coordinated work to solve. Bitching about them does not help anyone. Contrary to what many people here think, Linux devs are not blind to these issues, but they sure could use some help solving them. Complaining doesn't help when the issues have been known for years.

Reply Score: 14

RE: Pot calling the kettle black.
by tomcat on Wed 9th Jul 2008 02:15 UTC in reply to "Pot calling the kettle black. "
tomcat Member since:

She linked to a blatant troll...

If you read Linux Hater's blog, it's fairly obvious that he uses Linux all the time, his understanding of its architecture and problems is deep, and he's actually doing many of you a favor by pointing out the things that you would really prefer not to hear. Granted, if you'd prefer not to listen to what he has to say, that's fine, but at least have the balls to admit when he's right, which is much of the time.

Edited 2008-07-09 02:17 UTC

Reply Score: 5

-oblio- Member since:

"If you don't like it and don't contribute, don't use it, and STFU

Hey guess what. Your KDE desktop there? You're running some of my code. That's right, I used KDE for a while, and even wrote some code for you asshats. Too bad I was too blind to see at the time that KDE people don't care about their normal users. But if you want to continue to claim that I'm just an outsider talking shit, then try again, my friends."

If what he says is true, the whole situation (and most of the comments too) is marvelously ironic ;)

These new editors are supposed to bring new content to OSNews?

Reply Score: 2

PunchCardGuy Member since:

Hmm... Didn't know about the LinuxHatersBlog. I just went and had a look. Not a lot of useful content that I could see, but it was entertaining. That guy writes a lot like I talk sometimes, so maybe that's why I kinda like it.

As for all the discussion about flames and trolls, anyone who responds in kind to such is just throwing gasoline on the fires. There are ways to deal with this without descending to the same level. Or, they could just be ignored - flamers and trolls probably hate that more than anything else ;-)! Some folks on the InterWeb sure need to grow thicker skins, get some anger management therapy, or just find a life.

So anyways, welcome aboard to the new editors, and I look forward to some more good OS reportage.

Reply Score: 2

by UglyKidBill on Wed 9th Jul 2008 01:41 UTC
Member since:

Welcome to the new editors, hope you have some fun ;)

As for "the other issue", well, there will always be troll-ish people around, but you canĀ“t expect to have a mature and friendly place when your own staff repeatedly insults the reades. In the light of how many people has had trouble with her, you might want to reconsider if she was doing any good to OSN.

Best wishes.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Welcome
by Valhalla on Wed 9th Jul 2008 10:38 UTC in reply to "Welcome"
Valhalla Member since:

yes welcome new sucke... editors and I hope you have a pleasant stay.

if you just learn to lay low and thus avoid most of the flying shrapnel that ensues when the GPL-BSD, GNOME-KDL, WINDOWS-LINUX-MAC factions collide you'll probably get out of this gig with your sanity intact ;)

Reply Score: 4

by robertojdohnert on Wed 9th Jul 2008 02:10 UTC
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Congratulations to the new editors.

Reply Score: 3

Good luck. You're gonna need it.
by bousozoku on Wed 9th Jul 2008 03:29 UTC
Member since:

As you can see, you're for a bit of a wild ride.

Welcome. Hope that you survive well to bring us some interesting topics to provoke thought and serious debate.

(Bring cookies and coffee, also.)

Reply Score: 4

by Jimbo on Wed 9th Jul 2008 03:38 UTC
Member since:

welcome peeps.

Reply Score: 2

by aitvo on Wed 9th Jul 2008 04:27 UTC
Member since:

"Eugenia Loli-Queru, who is still occasionally lured out of retirement until the trolls and platform zealots"
Not quite. She lured herself out (to help you I'm sure) however when she was corrected for her inaccurate completely bias remarks (exactly what you'd expect from the common forum troll), she then cried wolf aka "oh poor me, you are all wrong, screw you guys I'm going home" like she always does, stomped her feet made more hate filled posts about all of us here and went off to do what she was good at which just so happens to not be osnews.

This post by you David is just another reason osnews has become completely useless.

Nothing but biased crap, and every post and moderation (including what you did to my posts the other day) just proves it further.

You get more non-bias reporting from *SLASHDOT* than you do here, how sorry is that?

'nuff said, off to find a replacement.

have a nice day.

Reply Score: 3

by TLZ_ on Wed 9th Jul 2008 06:21 UTC
Member since:

Welcome to the new editors, looking forward to see stuff from you. ;)

As for the Linux-hater blog thing I think he actually has some valid points. Hell, I'm not even sure if he actually does hate Linux as well, cause he seems to do his "oooh I'm controverisal and pissing off Linux-zealots" just to get attention(for the Linux-related problems).

I'm sure many people have put forward valid points in a far more polite manner, but they don't get the attention they should. Linux-hater secures his attention by being offensive and big-mouthed. Maybe not very elegant, but it works at least...

Reply Score: 1

by ralph on Wed 9th Jul 2008 06:47 UTC
Member since:

Welcome, it's nice to see new people around.

About Eugenia, as I was the one she so gracefully thanked for reminding her why she left OSNews in the first place:
The problem was, as it has always been with her, that she was the one abusing osnews to troll and flame and then started to ban people who dared to point this out.

Abusing an article submission about new distribution specific features to whine about her bugreport to upstream that hadn't immidiately been implemented is simply trolling and flaming. You don't have to be a zealot to point this out.

As to the linux-hater-blog, I personally love it. I think it's hilarious and many times straight to the point. So I don't see any problem with linking to it.

However, not understanding it and mindlessly parading around and proclaiming that you too think "f--k all these lusers" is a good attitude and well, you don't care anyway and well, you never lied in your life, is an entirely other matter, especially if you are supposed to be an editor of osnews.

Reply Score: 10

RE: Welcome
by SReilly on Wed 9th Jul 2008 07:57 UTC in reply to "Welcome"
SReilly Member since:

Well said.

So far, I have refrained from commenting on the situation with the Linux Haters blog but this last bit is the proverbial straw.

In the past, especially in the beginning, I really enjoyed Eugenia's work on this site but in recent years, as her interest has waned, I have found it harder and harder to reconcile my respect for her as a long standing (and correct me if I'm wrong, founding) editor of the site with the spite and vitriol she is currently partial too. Disabling someones account because that person disagrees has got to be the most childish thing I have ever seen her do and frankly, there is no excuse for it.

Although I understand, and even applaud, David's display of loyalty and respect for his fellow co-worker, I am not a little disappointed in his using his powers of moderation for 'revenge'. As for using the introduction of the new editors as a platform for having a dig at site users for a situation blatantly instigated by Eugenia herself, I find that just tasteless.

Not wanting to start things off on a bad not, I hasten to welcome the new editors with all the hart felt warmth I have seen this site muster over the years. I thank you in advance for your hard work and look forward to your submissions.

Cheers. :-)

Reply Score: 9

Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Wed 9th Jul 2008 07:38 UTC
Member since:

y0. Welcome, hope you have an enjoyable time.
As editors, don't troll. You'll be picked up for it more so than regular users. OSNews isn't as bad as people make it out to be, there are smart people here, a diverse economy of OSes and interests, and as long as the chosen articles are not provoking, people get on well and are constructive and witty.

As editors, your choice of articles will seal your fate ;)

Reply Score: 3

by Buck on Wed 9th Jul 2008 07:44 UTC
Member since:

Cut her some slack or something. She's the one that started the whole thing, OSNews. She's the one who's put most into it. Let her get biased a little, why do you get offended so easily? You KNOW her habits, and still you complain. If she was just somebody who's just registered then I could understand, but she's different and deserves to be treated with respect irregardless of what comments she makes here.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Eugenia
by ebasconp on Wed 9th Jul 2008 14:35 UTC in reply to "Eugenia"
ebasconp Member since:

Maybe it is removing past issues, but, though you are fully right in your appreciations and I agree with you, what I did not like occurred when Eugenia disabled someone's account just because he said things she did not want to hear, and that is an abuse of her power inside OSNews.

Edited 2008-07-09 14:36 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Eugenia
by Kroc on Wed 9th Jul 2008 17:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Eugenia"
Kroc Member since:

On a private website, there is no such thing as abuse of power. It might seem like that way, but at the end of the day people have to use this site under the condition that she can do as she chooses. This is not a publicly owned space and more people need to realise that when shouting off about what she should and shouldn't do.

I'm not saying that that's a good or bad thing, but that it's just fact.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Eugenia
by apoclypse on Wed 9th Jul 2008 15:14 UTC in reply to "Eugenia"
apoclypse Member since:

Its the lack of fairness, anyone here who did the same as her would be booted out or modded down to oblivion in a heart beat, by her no less. So for people to cry poor Eugenia is not really fair because no one started out with the intent of starting controversy but her. I have no issue at all with the blog she linked to but take issue with the way she responds to users who dare to disagree with her point of view. Not only did she say she has no respect for people on this forum but no respect for the site as well, as she implied that she was doing the site a favor and it was a waste of her time. She said as much across two different threads.

Reply Score: 4

by Dr-ROX on Wed 9th Jul 2008 08:19 UTC
Member since:

Welcome on board! And watch out for crazy fanatics!

Reply Score: 2

Comment by moleskine
by moleskine on Wed 9th Jul 2008 09:18 UTC
Member since:

Welcome guys, and very best wishes.

I think Eugenia's latest blog post suggests she may have more on her mind right now than operating systems. What a cock-up! Maybe if it comes to it, which I hope it never does, those incompetent lawyers can be sued for restitution of any lost income while away.

Life is too short for Linux-Hater. You can learn by looking at the stars or by looking at the bottom of a dirty ditch. I prefer to look at the stars.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by moleskine
by ebasconp on Wed 9th Jul 2008 16:39 UTC in reply to "Comment by moleskine"
ebasconp Member since:

I wanted to give you +1, but I already wrote a comment ;)

Nice comment dude!

Reply Score: 2

by JrezIN on Wed 9th Jul 2008 12:35 UTC
Member since:

OSes are the new religion!

Reply Score: 4