Linked by Amjith Ramanujam on Wed 9th Jul 2008 18:22 UTC, submitted by Thom_Holwerda
Microsoft Codename Midori is a derivative of Singularity that is meant to supersede Windows, and it is more than just a research project. Singularity, is an experimental microkernel and operating system project started in 2003 for which Microsoft posted the source code back in March. Unfortunately Singularity was developed exclusively for research purposes and is not intended for practical use.
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Comment by stestagg
by stestagg on Wed 9th Jul 2008 21:08 UTC
stestagg
Member since:
2006-06-03

My guess is that by the time this thing is released, backwards compatibility will be provided through virtualization, and so the compatibility barrier will be much lower

Reply Score: 5

RE: Comment by stestagg
by Luminair on Wed 9th Jul 2008 21:19 UTC in reply to "Comment by stestagg"
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

yes, I concur

Edited 2008-07-09 21:19 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by stestagg
by tdemj on Wed 9th Jul 2008 21:40 UTC in reply to "Comment by stestagg"
tdemj Member since:
2006-01-03

I agree, it's entirely possible. Think of the seamless virtualization of VMWare Fusion or Parallels. Users won't even notice that a window is running under a legacy OS. Only drivers and perhaps services will be required to be native on the new OS.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by stestagg
by helf on Wed 9th Jul 2008 22:33 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by stestagg"
helf Member since:
2005-07-06

which is what Vista shoulda had. Something like this should have been done a LONG time ago.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Comment by stestagg
by helf on Thu 10th Jul 2008 00:39 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by stestagg"
helf Member since:
2005-07-06

why is that being voted down? What the hell is wrong with you people?

Reply Score: 0

RE[4]: Comment by stestagg
by MollyC on Thu 10th Jul 2008 01:58 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by stestagg"
MollyC Member since:
2006-07-04

I'm guessing those that voted your comment down felt it was off topic and had the potential of derailing the thread into just one more "vista sucks" fest.

Reply Score: 4

About freakin time
by google_ninja on Wed 9th Jul 2008 21:36 UTC
google_ninja
Member since:
2006-02-05

Singularity is a very interesting OS. It is nice to see them actually doing something real with it.

Reply Score: 4

RE: About freakin time
by Whats That There on Wed 9th Jul 2008 22:22 UTC in reply to "About freakin time"
Whats That There Member since:
2005-09-21

How can you say it is a very good OS, when it is not released yet ?

Do you mean, in principle, it is a good OS ?
Or
it has the potential to become a good OS ?

Do not count your chickens

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: About freakin time
by google_ninja on Wed 9th Jul 2008 22:42 UTC in reply to "RE: About freakin time"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

It is based on singularity, and singularity has some very modern and innovative ideas. NT is based on VMS, which is fairly conservative as kernels go.

The big shame about singularity was that it has been a research project for years now. It went under MS-RL a few months ago, but that still kept people from making a working implementation (reference license basically means read-only source code)

If this actually takes off, I would say it would be the most interesting (serious) project in the OS space since the BeOS microkernel.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: About freakin time
by tomcat on Thu 10th Jul 2008 01:15 UTC in reply to "RE: About freakin time"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

How can you say it is a very good OS, when it is not released yet ?


Read for comprehension: He said it was a "very interesting OS."

Reply Score: 6

RE[3]: About freakin time
by Whats That There on Thu 10th Jul 2008 06:21 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: About freakin time"
Whats That There Member since:
2005-09-21

yes, but can I install it ?
can I buy it right now ?

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: About freakin time
by REM2000 on Thu 10th Jul 2008 08:45 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: About freakin time"
REM2000 Member since:
2006-07-25

you don't have to buy it, singularity is free to download and run/compile.

It obvious that Microsoft has to look ahead, we have newer technologies and newer methods and needs for using the technologoies.

I agree that the NT Kernel and most the NT systems are good, however how long can Microsoft keep extending these systems to take advantage of newer tech.

I think the biggest requirement for an OS is to take advantage of mutliple cores and to provide an easier way for applications that run on the OS to take advantage. We see apple going this way with Grand Central, intel have stated that they see future chips with hundreds and thousands of cores, we have GPU's which contain a wealth of computing power.

Microsoft really excell's when they are put under pressure, although sharing the same kernel the difference between Vista and Server 2008 is night and day, proving that the userland/UI is the biggest problem in Vista, we have Mac OSX and Linux (unix's) that will hopefully push Microsoft to get out of this medocracy pattern they have been in for the past 8 years and start giving some real value for money, everything after Windows 2000 seems like a can't be bothered slap some new paint on it approach.

Edited 2008-07-10 08:46 UTC

Reply Score: 2

v This seems rumour
by CrazyDude1 on Wed 9th Jul 2008 22:56 UTC
RE: This seems rumour
by google_ninja on Wed 9th Jul 2008 23:05 UTC in reply to "This seems rumour"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

Codename Midori (I wish Microsoft named it "Doors" instead) is a derivative of Singularity that is meant to supersede Windows, and it is more than just a research project. Still, it is not ready to be previewed and it definitely has not got anything to do with Windows 7. Microsoft has put aside substantial resources and has put many bright people behind the project, which is headed by Eric Rudder, but other than that, very little is known. If it ever does debut, it will probably become available some time before CEO Steve Ballmer retires, nine or so years from now


If you read the article, you would see

A) It is not a rumour
B) it is based on singularity

Chances are if v1 is done in 9 years, and we use NT adoption as a reference, we are talking 16 years before this would become mainstream. That means this is a "looking ahead" type of project.

Reply Score: 7

I have a feeling
by kaiwai on Thu 10th Jul 2008 04:18 UTC
kaiwai
Member since:
2005-07-06

I have a feeling that we'll start to see this in niche situations; possibly in the portable area first, then followed by maybe HPC, then work its way to the middle - then again, given the new devices these days, I have a feeling that eventually the desktop's days will be numbered.

I'd love to see this as a success - even as a Mac user, the added competition will improve product quality over all. Its too bad, however, that Microsoft does have a reputation for taking a wonderful idea and completely butchering it. Case in point would be Windows NT, and the silly things they did in NT4 (moving graphics into kernel space).

Reply Score: 1

RE: I have a feeling
by google_ninja on Thu 10th Jul 2008 12:53 UTC in reply to "I have a feeling"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

Isn't graphics normally in kernel space? Don't know how it works on a mac, but in linux it is too.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: I have a feeling
by kaiwai on Thu 10th Jul 2008 15:09 UTC in reply to "RE: I have a feeling"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Isn't graphics normally in kernel space? Don't know how it works on a mac, but in linux it is too.


Actually, if you look at Linux, only a *VERY* small amount exists in kernel space, infact, it is more of a 'door way' for the Xorg server driver to speed up talking to the video card.

The problem is that with Windows is they threw the WHOLE driver into kernel space. Rather than keeping the heavy loading in user space, and have a small short cut, they improved 'teh snappy' through brute force. Windows Vista has changed things, and from what it appears, more of the driver now sits in user space, which allows graceful recovery rather than a BSOD.

As for Mac, I'm unsure how things work in the Mac world given I haven't really investigated all that heavily into how the whole graphics layer works. What ever the case, it seems to do the job required with minimum fuss and bother.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: I have a feeling
by sorpigal on Thu 10th Jul 2008 18:01 UTC in reply to "RE: I have a feeling"
sorpigal Member since:
2005-11-02

NT was originally very microkernel-ish and sensibly put a lot of driver stuff in userspace, only later on moving graphics into the kernel. MacOS, which itself tries to be microkernel-ish, these days does what Windows does now and throws graphics into the kernel, for performance reasons.

Linux is much the same, though as a monolithic kernel it bears no shame for putting graphics stuff into the kernel. *nix systems in general try to leave as much as possible to X, but as I understand it a good deal winds up in the kernel anyway.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: I have a feeling
by andrewg on Thu 10th Jul 2008 23:22 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: I have a feeling"
andrewg Member since:
2005-07-06

Video is in userland in Vista.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: I have a feeling
by google_ninja on Thu 10th Jul 2008 23:45 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: I have a feeling"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

That is sorta what I understood, for hybrid kernels it makes sense to put graphics in kernel space due to perf issues.

Reply Score: 2