Linked by David Adams on Tue 5th Aug 2008 21:15 UTC, submitted by peskypescado
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless I have recently been in the market for a new smartphone. The iPhone looks like some nice hardware and I'm already an AT&T customer, but after Apple's trend of pulling Apps from iTunes lately I'm just not buying. Apple has proven to me that I don't want to live in a closed ecosystem. It made me realize what my real issue with Apple is: their business practices.
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HTC vs iPhone
by OSGuy on Tue 5th Aug 2008 21:29 UTC
Member since:

iPhone? Are you serious? I will never buy an Apple product. Let me just repeat what I just said: *NEVER* "I realized what my real issue with Apple is though: their business practices." - Enough said!
I'd rather go for the HTC Diamond. The new one comes with expandable keyboard!

Check this out! and and and finally this which shows the keyboard well:,239036203,339289451...

Edited 2008-08-05 21:39 UTC

Reply Score: 6

I hope it helps
by MacMike on Tue 5th Aug 2008 21:30 UTC
Member since:

I just got my iPhone 3 days ago and am having a blast. Just make sure you're punishing Apple more than you're punishing yourself by not having one.

I'd say for now the high demand is overwhelming your message. Even after 3 weeks of being available I still had to wait in a line that I'd estimate at 300 people deep in Nashville, TN. It took me a total of about 2.5 hours before I was out the door with my iPhone 3G. I'd say I was somewhere between the 75-100th person in line as I arrived 40 minutes before the store opened.

Reply Score: 1

RE: I hope it helps
by Imp of the Perverse on Wed 6th Aug 2008 01:28 UTC in reply to "I hope it helps"
Imp of the Perverse Member since:

Trillions of flies eat shit, but that doesn't make it Haute cuisine.

My apologies if I didn't fail to be not uncordial.

Edited 2008-08-06 01:29 UTC

Reply Score: 10

RE[2]: I hope it helps
by StaubSaugerNZ on Wed 6th Aug 2008 01:42 UTC in reply to "RE: I hope it helps"
StaubSaugerNZ Member since:

Trillions of flies eat shit, but that doesn't make it Haute cuisine.

My apologies if I didn't fail to be not uncordial.

That has to be one of the best (if repulsive) ways of stating that large numbers of adopters doesn't make something 'right' or the best. Brilliant!

Reply Score: 5

Maybe a different proposition
by ameasures on Tue 5th Aug 2008 21:50 UTC
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One of the things I love about Linux and the BSDs is the way that all my apps, drivers and so on are updated through a narrow channel of trustworthy supply.

In contrast: Windows updates are mostly on a per app or per supplier basis, if they volunteer to update at all. And frankly Apples OSX ecosystem is little different.

With the iPhone Apple have taken positive control to provide unified updates and to exclude malware (rather than waste CPU and RAM detecting and suppressing it).

Time will tell whether they have it right or not. No doubt they will fine tune it. I sincerely doubt they are malign on this - I just think there is a different value proposition for the consumer than we see elsewhere.

Reply Score: 4

Faustian Deal
by ahmadster on Tue 5th Aug 2008 22:28 UTC
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The way I see it, Apple went into a Faustian Deal with AT&T. When OSX came out, Apple was trying to play nice. You could tell this was not going to last once they were on top. The iPhone is showing us Apple's behavior when they have a majority market share.

Strike 1: "There is no SDK!, use Safari". NO Copy & Paste.
Strike 2: No SMS, MMS, Video, Voice Record, Bluetooth sync, Locked and Bricked iPhones, no contact sharing. NO Copy & Paste.
Strike 3: No video chat, NO Copy & Paste.

Now with 3G, you get to pay an extra $10/month for giving up all ability to SMS text messaging. Oh yeah.

I gave my iPhone away in February, so before the 3G hoopla.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Faustian Deal
by Morgan on Tue 5th Aug 2008 22:47 UTC in reply to "Faustian Deal"
Morgan Member since:

While I pretty much agree with everything you said, I have to point out one inaccuracy for posterity's sake. You said:

Strike 2: No SMS

But there is indeed SMS, in an iChat bubbly format no less. You can even send one message to multiple recipients as of 1.1.4, and reportedly you can SMS for free using AOL IM for the iPhone (I've not tried it myself).

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Faustian Deal
by ahmadster on Wed 6th Aug 2008 15:11 UTC in reply to "RE: Faustian Deal"
ahmadster Member since:

Yes, true, I mistyped. I was thinking no contact sending through SMS. I couldn't believe it when someone asked me to send them someone else's phone number and I couldn't. I had to find a pen and paper to write it down. I'm use to simply selecting a contact and then SMS'ing it over.
But you are correct, SMS did exist unlimited under iPhone 1

Reply Score: 1

RE: Faustian Deal
by OSGuy on Wed 6th Aug 2008 12:32 UTC in reply to "Faustian Deal"
OSGuy Member since:

"Now with 3G, you get to pay an extra $10/month for giving up all ability to SMS text messaging. Oh yeah."

Your ending is missing a spice! Probably a better ending would have been:

"Now with 3G, you get to pay an extra $10/month for giving up all ability to SMS text messaging. Oh yeah and by the way did I mention No Copy & Paste??" ;) ;)

Sorry couldn't resist it - either way, I don't have one nor have I used one so I can't confirm whether it does have it or not but if it doesn't then that's pretty poor. Even my SEW810 has a Copy & Paste. When you type an SMS, you click on More->Edit and you have Copy, Copy All and Paste. When you press Copy, a little button appears saying "Start" and when you press Start, it starts selecting the text when you move the arrows. A neat work around for a non smart phone. My next phone might be one of the HTC Windows ones but I want them to fix the few issues mentioned in the reviews first - battery life and few other more minor ones.

Edited 2008-08-06 12:39 UTC

Reply Score: 3

OpenMoko ?
by mmu_man on Wed 6th Aug 2008 00:00 UTC
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You've been warned: ;)

OpenMoko seems to be gaining momentum...

Reply Score: 4

RE: OpenMoko ?
by bsharitt on Wed 6th Aug 2008 00:38 UTC in reply to "OpenMoko ?"
bsharitt Member since:

I like the idea of the Freerunner, and might actually get one to hack around with, but so far it doesn't look up to the task of actually being a day to day phone. The UI look horrible at the moment.

Reply Score: 1

RE: OpenMoko ?
by lurch_mojoff on Wed 6th Aug 2008 06:39 UTC in reply to "OpenMoko ?"
lurch_mojoff Member since:

You've been warned: ;)

OpenMoko seems to be gaining momentum...

Sure it does:

So much momentum I'm shocked it hasn't pulled out orbit by now.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: OpenMoko ?
by OSGuy on Wed 6th Aug 2008 12:43 UTC in reply to "RE: OpenMoko ?"
OSGuy Member since:

:) I watched the video. I don't know what to say but the OpenMoko doesn't look like a good product to me and it's ugly too! Seriously, what were they thinking? That thing is ugly!

By the way, I agree 100% with the points mentioned in the "5 reasons not to use an iPhone" article. I am just being real and honest here. He has some very valid points but suggesting the OpenMoko as a solution was quite funny. If you don't like MS, just suggest SE the P series or Nokia N9x but don't suggest OpenMoko just because it is open source.

P.S. Doesn't the Windows Mobile based wPhone give you more freedom than the iPhone? Come on, be honest! I'd like to know the restrictions created by MS for any Windows Mobile OS. Do they brick your phone?

Edited 2008-08-06 12:54 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Poor arguments!!
by Hakime on Wed 6th Aug 2008 06:49 UTC
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"Why will Adobe’s CS4 suite be 64-bit only on Windows? An Apple business decision."

No way, Apple decided not to provide a 64 carbon (even though it was available in the first leopard builds) because they realized that it is the only solution to force big editors like Adobe to switch to Cocoa. Apple wants to go forward and having a legacy of Carbon applications is not going to help. Dropping gradually Carbon is important for Apple, this the sort of decision that Microsoft can't do and that everyone in few years will acknowledge.

"Why is the iPhone only available on AT&T? An Apple business decision."

Granted that Apple should better go for other carriers too, but when they introduced the iPhone, going for a single carrier was certainly the best thing to do as Apple is a new player in the phone market.

"Why couldn’t .Mac users wait until MobileMe was stable to switch their e-mail over? Again, an Apple business decision."

Granted that Apple should have done it differently, Apple has admitted the mistake, Jobs itself has admitted the mistake.

"It may seem funny, but it would really bother me to have Apple deciding what I can and cannot use. "

Apple does not....

"After Apple’s trend of pulling Apps from iTunes lately I really can’t say I trust them."

So far two applications, probably for good reason. And it seems that NetShare will be back soon.

And also recall this:

where it is written this

"Furthermore, unlimited plans (except for DataConnect and BlackBerry tethered) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device (through use of, including without limitation, connection kits, other phone/PDA-to-computer accessories, Bluetooth or any other wireless technology) to laptops, PCs, or other equipment for any purpose."

Reply Score: 3

does not connect...
by bolomkxxviii on Wed 6th Aug 2008 10:33 UTC
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Can I transfer files from my desktop computer (Mint Linux) to the iphone? No? No sale.

Reply Score: 4

Comment by ashcrow
by ashcrow on Wed 6th Aug 2008 13:24 UTC
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Totally agree. I owned an iPod touch for a bit. I figured that even though it was closed it would do what I wanted (a rare laps in judgement). I quickly found out it didn't. It would only sync with iTunes, the battery life was poor, applications were very VERY few, it supported only a few audio formats and I couldn't write anything for it. It was jail break it or sell it .... so I did one, was still disappointed, then the other.

Basically it is really hard for me to think that people pay money (and really it's a lot of it) for essentially adding the phone call features.

I can also say I use to have some respect for Apple products until iPod's stopped 'just working' with versions of OS X (had to help my mother with that), the OS X stability issues, iTunes silly DRM, and the iPhone/iTouch super proprietary setup.

Reply Score: 2

I love my centro
by Pokaia on Wed 6th Aug 2008 18:53 UTC
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I have a palm centro and love it. i also will never buy an apple product

Reply Score: 1

RE: I love my centro
by Art Carnage on Wed 6th Aug 2008 21:22 UTC in reply to "I love my centro"
Art Carnage Member since:

Amen to that. The iPhone users seem a bit like the fish I catch with a spinner lure. The lure is bright and shiny, but has no nutritional value. All you get is reeled in.

Right now, I'm typing on my laptop, using my Palm Centro as a tethered 3G modem (with Radio Paradise streaming in the background) using a 3rd party app. Speed's about the same as DSL. Maybe a little faster. It can do the same trick via Bluetooth - "untethered" tethering - though the Bluetooth connection cuts the speed a bit. I pay $15 a month for unlimited data access. And since the Palm is an open platform, I pay ziltch, zero, nada, nothing extra a month to tether that data stream to my laptop. Sweeeeet!

I actually see the Centro (and most other smart phones) vs. the iPhone to be a bit like Firefox vs. Opera. Firefox lets you add whatever add-ons you want to enhance it, and make it work the way you want. Opera? Not so much. You get what they want you to have. For example, I wanted to add voice dialing to the Centro. Bought the app, installed it. I now have voice dialing. Voice dialing on the iPhone? Nope. Maybe I want to control all the IR devices in my home with my Centro. Again, not a problem. iPhone? Oh, never mind. No IR capabilities. No ability to shoot video either. And my computer can see the Centro's storage card as just another USB Mass Drive. I can rip MP3s and 3GP video directly into the phone, no "rip then copy" needed.

But look, you can turn the iPhone on its side, and the screen changes orientation. That cool. Right? Right...?

Edited 2008-08-06 21:39 UTC

Reply Score: 3

by PJBonoVox on Thu 7th Aug 2008 09:23 UTC
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Apple values forms over function, and open alternatives tend value function over form.

Is there a middle ground?

Reply Score: 2

Now you understand
by alcibiades on Thu 7th Aug 2008 10:06 UTC
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Now you understand why it was so important to have all apps bought via Apple. And restricted access to and discussion of APIs. Because otherwise people might write inappropriate apps. Because otherwise people might make inappropriate use of their phones, and load on stuff like netshare. That would contravene agreements with the carriers who had exclusives. That would be real bad. It would affect your seamless integration of network, phone and PC

It might affect profits too. That would be even worse.

Reply Score: 2