Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 13th Aug 2008 12:10 UTC, submitted by judgen
Linux As we all know by now, netbooks are the latest craze in the computing world. Small notebooks, perfect for on the go, and relatively cheap. The interesting thing is that these netbooks are often offered with Linux pre-installed instead of Windows, and this prompts many to believe that it is the netbook niche where Linux will gain its first solid foothold among the general populace. "It does a lot to level the playing field. In fact, Linux looks to be quick out of the gate," said Jay Lyman, analyst with the 451 Group. However - is that really happening?
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wobble wobble
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 13th Aug 2008 12:12 UTC
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

I actually deleted the last line of this item. It read: "How am I supposed to get chicks when my windows don't wobble?"

I was afraid of people claiming unprofessional behaviour.

Reply Score: 14

RE: wobble wobble
by fretinator on Wed 13th Aug 2008 17:48 UTC in reply to "wobble wobble"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

I always get knocked for lack of transparency.

Reply Score: 3

quick out of the gate?
by jabbotts on Wed 13th Aug 2008 12:23 UTC
jabbotts
Member since:
2007-09-06

"It does a lot to level the playing field. In fact, Linux looks to be quick out of the gate,"
- said Jay Lyman

Out of the gate? Nah, the folks at the track betting there paycheques are just finally realizing that the horse is on the track nose and nose with the other horses; and has been the last many laps.

Religion aside, it really is the better software choice for size of machine it's being pushed through. It will be interesting to see what competition does in this space and how quickly the Eee friendly third party distros will include installs for the other blocks of hardware.

Reply Score: 4

Comment by lemur2
by lemur2 on Wed 13th Aug 2008 12:38 UTC
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

I firmly believe that many, many of the Linux netbooks are in fact turned into Windows XP netbooks. In other words, it is hard to say just how many netbooks are out there running Linux.


Interesting.

Are you aware of the emerging evidence that Linux versions of these netbooks are out-selling Windows versions?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/pc

In some recent news about netbooks it transpired that one model (I think it was an EEEPC) had been produced 50% Linux and 50% Windows, and the Linux versions had sold out but there were still plenty of Windows machines available.

For the significant majority of machines sold the OS will not be changed for the life of the machine. Most people do not have the ability or the confidence to install a different OS.

PS: As far as more general machines go, this is an interesting development:

http://www.linuxloop.com/news/2008/08/11/select-dell-notebooks-now-...

Edited 2008-08-13 12:40 UTC

Reply Score: 7

RE: Comment by lemur2
by hobgoblin on Wed 13th Aug 2008 13:22 UTC in reply to "Comment by lemur2"
hobgoblin Member since:
2005-07-06

hell, most will ask a geek friend or relative to run the recovery media that came with the machine. or even pay the company that made it or someone that work where they got it to do the same.

these locked down mini-laptops are in a way exactly the same as the original iphone. a friendly set of icons on the front, ready to be used.

want somewhere safe to store your work files? get a memory card to stick and put it in there, end of story.

its kinda like one have come full circle with the memory cards acting as the floppy and the mini-laptop taking over for the C64...

but then i have long been voicing the opinion that many would be more happy typewriter with a net connection then a full blown computer. the modern computer just have to many hidden tasks and complexity. and that its connected to a whole world of other, equally complex machines dont help.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by lemur2
by darknexus on Wed 13th Aug 2008 13:38 UTC in reply to "Comment by lemur2"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

Interesting.
Are you aware of the emerging evidence that Linux versions of these netbooks are out-selling Windows versions?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/pc

In some recent news about netbooks it transpired that one model (I think it was an EEEPC) had been produced 50% Linux and 50% Windows, and the Linux versions had sold out but there were still plenty of Windows machines available.

For the significant majority of machines sold the OS will not be changed for the life of the machine. Most people do not have the ability or the confidence to install a different OS.

PS: As far as more general machines go, this is an interesting development:

http://www.linuxloop.com/news/2008/08/11/select-dell-notebooks-now-...


This is exactly why I believe sales figures really never tell the story of how many users are using any platform. There's a couple reasons I can think of that people would buy the Linux version:
* For Linux, obviously
* You can sometimes get more bang for the buck buying the Linux models, case in point being the EEE PC 901. The XP version comes with a total of 12gb of SSD, the Linux version is 20gb total. That's 8 more gb for the same price. Many people will simply see that and won't look at the operating system it's running because honestly, consumers for the most part don't care. And, as long as the provided Linux does everything they need, they probably won't feel the need to change it. A lot of people are looking at these not as computers, but as appliances like their cel phones. If you ask an ordinary consumer what operating system their cel phone's running, they wouldn't be able to tell you. I think in a lot of cases the same is beginning to apply to these netbooks.
Still, there's no way of knowing how many users install Windows on their netbook, or pay someone to do it. I think that the netbook market may be one area where Linux may eventually gain a hold, but it won't be desktop linux that gets it, and that's an important distinction. The consumer who's seeing Linux is not seeing SuSE, Ubuntu, or Fedora, even if Linpus (yick, what a name) is based on Fedora. The end users see the desktop, and it's not Fedora's desktop. It's not even Linpus's desktop. It's a manufacturer-customized interface, with each netbook being different. This, in my mind, contributes to the appliance feel for most people rather than the computer feel.
So, is Linux gaining a foothold here? Possibly. But due to the nature of these pre-installed distros, don't expect Desktop usage to skyrocket, even if every netbook bought with Linux keeps running it. These custom distros are optimized to fit the hardware exactly, and to make using the netbook easier. Simple as that. The experience they have with Linux on a netbook is not going to be what they get on the desktop. The same kind of users who need to install XP are the same kind of users who need to install a standard Linux distro--they either have specific needs, or just want a standard environment.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by lemur2
by Zerix01 on Thu 14th Aug 2008 12:59 UTC in reply to "Comment by lemur2"
Zerix01 Member since:
2007-07-26

Even if a large group of netbook owners have installed Windows on their device, how many actually paid for a new copy of XP rather than just installing one they already had? So Microsoft would not be getting paid for another license but the Linux distro of choice for that device would be. This is the same effect as buying a computer with Windows installed then wiping it out for Linux but never trying to get your money back for your Windows license. I would also like to point out you can find tons of information on and people asking questions about getting Linux installed on their computers that once had windows. Apparently this only adds up to about 4% of the users, maybe it's the same figure for netbooks.

Ultimately just like in the PC world most systems sold with Windows stay with Windows installed. I'm sure most Linux netbooks sold will always have Linux installed.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by lemur2
by mrnagrom on Sat 16th Aug 2008 14:31 UTC in reply to "Comment by lemur2"
mrnagrom Member since:
2008-08-13

thats because people are getting them cheap and installing windows xp on them.. borf.

i didn't want vista so i bought a crapbuntu dell... used it for a while, realized drivers were an afterthought when my sound stopped working and nobody could fix it..... installed xp and it's all good.

Reply Score: 1

Human nature - resistant to change
by waynej on Wed 13th Aug 2008 13:06 UTC
waynej
Member since:
2007-07-04

There is no question that the existence of these devices will increase the market share of Linux - ridiculous to suggest otherwise - but many people will either purchase the models with XP or try to install it afterwards.

Why?

Simple. Linux is different. It is not Windows and people are resistant to change. It really is as simple as that. There will be people who will give Linux a chance and find they like it but at the same time there will be people who will not like it purely because it is different. Fine.

There will be people who give it a chance, discover that Linux is easy to administer and find that even if their favorite software is not available, there are free alternatives that do the same job (sometimes better). There will be people who will refuse to use any alternative to their favorite package and therefore need windows. Fine.

People are resistant to change. My father-in-law is having to completely re-install his XP box. Again. He only needs the pc for browsing, e-mails and to do office tasks for his business. A distro such as PClinuxOS would be perfect for him. Will he give it a try? No. It's different, too much effort to learn (?), can't get "Microsoft" on it, etc.

He's the kind of person that given the choice of what he knows and something different will always choose the familiar. He's not alone in his attitude and in someways it's hard to argue with. It's human nature.

Also, some people will always try to install this piece of software on that piece of hardware for the hell of it or to prove some kind of point.

Linux is making headway, of that there is no question. These devices are exposing more and more people to the platform and it will gain market share - there can be no doubt about this. But many people will want to stick to what they know and are familiar with.

Where things will get interesting is when XP's life comes to an end early next year. Will Vista be installable on these machines? That is the interesting factor. People like and are familiar with Windows and as Vista gains more and more exposure and people want it on all their platforms (familiarity again) what will they do when it can't be installed on these inherently less powerful machines.

The long game may favour Linux more than we think.

My tuppence.

Reply Score: 4

hobgoblin Member since:
2005-07-06

specifically, its exsposing the younger ones.

something like the aspire one is perfect for bringing to class and take notes. its so small that it do not hide the user and do not become to much of a burden, yet loaded with enough software to cope with the days tasks.

only problem i can see is that it cant do itunes (even tho most linux media players can handle the ipod).

Reply Score: 2

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

specifically, its exsposing the younger ones.

something like the aspire one is perfect for bringing to class and take notes. its so small that it do not hide the user and do not become to much of a burden, yet loaded with enough software to cope with the days tasks.

only problem i can see is that it cant do itunes (even tho most linux media players can handle the ipod).


http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT7150747782.html

http://www.forbes.com/2005/03/28/cx_ah_0328tentech.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/03/22/apple_blocks_pymusique/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/120146/pymusique_author_hacks_apples...

... it is an ongoing thing. Information "wants to be free".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_wants_to_be_free

Reply Score: 2

hobgoblin Member since:
2005-07-06

yet these are not itunes.

that brandname is just as important as the features provided.

hell, its a kind of brandname that microsoft never was able to create on the home desktop (but somewhat managed in the office).

edit: what im trying to say is that when you show up at school and unfold the laptop, and itunes is not your default media player, your not part of the "in" kids...

Edited 2008-08-13 14:09 UTC

Reply Score: 0

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

what im trying to say is that when you show up at school and unfold the laptop, and itunes is not your default media player, your not part of the "in" kids...


What world do you live in...? That has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Reply Score: 5

hobgoblin Member since:
2005-07-06

believe me, the school world can be downright strange...

Reply Score: 1

Adurbe Member since:
2005-07-06

I think he is trying to say that certain programs/services become so popular they almost become a verb

in the uk 'to google' means to search online for something.

you put many people inform of a pc with google.com blocked, they suddenly feel uncomfortable, msn/yahoo isnt QUITE the same. All that user will want is google again!


p.s. since thinking of this anology I have blocked google on a collegues pc and they are indeed pulling their hair out now :-D

Reply Score: 2

MattPie Member since:
2006-04-18

Where things will get interesting is when XP's life comes to an end early next year. Will Vista be installable on these machines?

Microsoft will probably just make an exception for XP on these devices, just like they're doing now. I don't think you can truly buy XP on regular PCs now, just can just buy Windows Vista Business with XP Pro Downgrade (as Dell puts it).

Microsoft isn't stupid. They'll keep selling XP on these machines until they have something else (PocketVista?) ready. To them, it's better than people buying them with Linux installed.

Reply Score: 2

1c3d0g Member since:
2005-07-06

Exactly. They're just steaming through to finish Windows 7 as that O.S. will be easier to run on a netbook (compared to Vista).

Reply Score: 2

cyclops Member since:
2006-03-12

Vista is pushing 2 years RTM its hardly a new OS and ignoring all the vapourware nonsense that Windows 7 has the potential to replace. At best it only addresses one humiliation and thats putting an 8 year old OS on the machine is the only way they can compete. It doesn't address the main reasons Linux is being chosen which is price The only thing they can do is give the OS away, and try to make money on streaming content from a main computer, but there are several companies who are better positioned to do this simply by being content providers. The bottom line is for the social networker on the move why use *any* Microsoft product. I can think of several stable free(as in cost) alternatives for both browser and OS.

Reply Score: 2

tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

It doesn't address the main reasons Linux is being chosen which is price


People said the same things about XP and the OLPC XO: "Microsoft will never be able to run on that hardware, it's too big, it costs too much, blah, blah, blah..." Final result? XO is shipping with XP, not Linux. Want to know why? MS reportedly dropped the price tag for XP on the XO down to $3. Never underestimate MS. They still make money, even at that price point, and they have reason to try to prevent Linux from getting a toehold in this market.

Reply Score: 2

Lobotomik Member since:
2006-01-03

Final result? XO is shipping with XP, not Linux. Want to know why? MS reportedly dropped the price tag for XP on the XO down to $3. Never underestimate MS.


There is some truth in what you say, but you're wrong in one account: The XO is NOT shipping with XP; what has happenned is that now, XP is an option. It's cost is higher than $3, too, because it absolutely needs to come installed in a sizeable SD card. AND you don't get standard XP, but a version doctored (butchered?) to run in the limited environment of the XO.

I have not tried XOXP, but I'm sure its performance when running any standard XP package will be far less than stellar. And never forget that most or all of that software that makes XP unsubstitutable costs money, often much more than the XO itself.

So, I'm sure the XOXP is pretty much DOA. It may be initially required by some goverments, but any poor government that is going to shell out for hundreds of thousands of XOXPs will test first, and there is no way XP will pass. A butchered XP that will only be used to slowly run free apps at a higher cost than the alternative is an absurd proposition.

Of course, I hope not, but it may well be that the XO itself is also DOA for many reasons. But if the project wont fly under Linux, don't believe for a moment that XP will provide the lift.

Reply Score: 2

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"Final result? XO is shipping with XP, not Linux. Want to know why? MS reportedly dropped the price tag for XP on the XO down to $3. Never underestimate MS.
There is some truth in what you say, but you're wrong in one account: The XO is NOT shipping with XP; what has happenned is that now, XP is an option. It's cost is higher than $3, too, because it absolutely needs to come installed in a sizeable SD card. AND you don't get standard XP, but a version doctored (butchered?) to run in the limited environment of the XO. I have not tried XOXP, but I'm sure its performance when running any standard XP package will be far less than stellar. And never forget that most or all of that software that makes XP unsubstitutable costs money, often much more than the XO itself. So, I'm sure the XOXP is pretty much DOA. It may be initially required by some goverments, but any poor government that is going to shell out for hundreds of thousands of XOXPs will test first, and there is no way XP will pass. A butchered XP that will only be used to slowly run free apps at a higher cost than the alternative is an absurd proposition. Of course, I hope not, but it may well be that the XO itself is also DOA for many reasons. But if the project wont fly under Linux, don't believe for a moment that XP will provide the lift. "

Precisely so. The whole point of XOXP is to kill the OLPC, not to actually run and do anything useful.

The underpriveledged kids (via their government) would have to spend a great deal extra per machine for a special SD card just so the machines could boot XPXO (a modified Windows of questionable compatibility) slowly so that the kids could then run ... Notepad, Calc and Paint. Slowly.

To address this fatal flaw (no actual educational applications) Microsoft seems to be begging to have Sugar (which they originally bagged) ported to XPXO. What in heavens name for? ... the XO already runs Sugar just fine without Windows.

Edited 2008-08-14 07:00 UTC

Reply Score: 4

tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

"The whole point of XOXP is to kill the OLPC, not to actually run and do anything useful."


Michael Gartenberg of Jupiter Research apparently disagrees with you. And since, between the two of you, he's actually been EVALUATING XP on XO, I'm gonna have to go with his opinion...

http://weblogs.jupiterresearch.com/analysts/gartenberg/archives/200...
"It is much better than the stock OLPC OS IMHO and I imagine much more useful as well."

Reply Score: 2

tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

The XO is NOT shipping with XP; what has happenned is that now, XP is an option. t's cost is higher than $3, too, because it absolutely needs to come installed in a sizeable SD card.


Stop kidding yourself. Negroponte has essentially acknowledged that the shift to Windows is practically inevitable:

"OLPC's founder Nicholas Negroponte also told the Associated Press on Tuesday that an insistence upon using only free, open source software had hampered the XO's usability and scared away potential adopters."

Price is a non-differentiator in countries with 90%+ piracy rates. The people in these countries simply don't have ethical concerns about violation of copyright.

AND you don't get standard XP, but a version doctored (butchered?) to run in the limited environment of the XO.


The version of Linux running on the XO was similarly stripped-down.

I have not tried XOXP, but I'm sure its performance when running any standard XP package will be far less than stellar.


It's not a "standard XP package". It's tuned specifically for the machine. Michael Gartenberg of Jupiter Research says this about XP on XO: "It is much better than the stock OLPC OS IMHO and I imagine much more useful as well."

http://weblogs.jupiterresearch.com/analysts/gartenberg/archives/200...

And never forget that most or all of that software that makes XP unsubstitutable costs money, often much more than the XO itself.


See comments on piracy above. Also, you are aware that most FOSS software runs on Windows, right?

So, I'm sure the XOXP is pretty much DOA. It may be initially required by some goverments, but any poor government that is going to shell out for hundreds of thousands of XOXPs will test first, and there is no way XP will pass. A butchered XP that will only be used to slowly run free apps at a higher cost than the alternative is an absurd proposition.


Again, stop kidding yourself. XP on XO is inevitable. Negroponte would not have reversed course on Sugar unless he knew the same.

... don't believe for a moment that XP will provide the lift...


Saying or hoping something doesn't make it true. I'll trust people who are actually USING the software, not politically-motivated folks.

Reply Score: 2

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Will Vista be installable on these machines?


A very few of these machines offer Vista Home basic ... a crippled version of a dog of an OS that runs extremely poorly on this class of machine. Many of these machines have only 512MB of RAM.

In general, the answer to your question is: No.

More precisely, the answer to your question is: Not enough of them and not well enough to matter.

Reply Score: 4

hrmf...
by hobgoblin on Wed 13th Aug 2008 13:13 UTC
hobgoblin
Member since:
2005-07-06

lately i have found me wondering about using webforum traffic to track anything.

its the classical case of the silent majority again.

also, the impression i get is that those that install windows on xp are those that want to use the specific software that they are used to, that they are a more demanding set of user.

its the same kind of user thats messing about installing and updating the default apps of the linux distro. replacing firefox 2.x with 3.x and so on.

basically people that have been using computer so much for so long that they have created a work habit of apps and interfaces. kinda like living in the same place for a long time, you know where everything is.

heh, that reminds me of the ending of the web geek vs sales guy video, where after his desktop got sorted the sales guy complains that he will not be able to find anything anymore.

all in all these are people that do more then surf the web, use mail and watch youtube videos. its people that have been eying ultra-portables but could not justify the cost.

if one look at the number of apps that a aspire one provide out of the box, its similar to a winxp laptop with ms office bundled, and maybe then some. at the very least it probably supports more media formats then the windows laptop do unless the company have added some extra sauce.

Reply Score: 2

RE: hrmf...
by lemur2 on Wed 13th Aug 2008 14:06 UTC in reply to "hrmf..."
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

lately i have found me wondering about using webforum traffic to track anything.

its the classical case of the silent majority again.


There is also this effect:
http://boycottnovell.com/2008/03/10/slashdot-tagging-tweak/

also, the impression i get is that those that install windows on xp are those that want to use the specific software that they are used to, that they are a more demanding set of user.

its the same kind of user thats messing about installing and updating the default apps of the linux distro. replacing firefox 2.x with 3.x and so on.

basically people that have been using computer so much for so long that they have created a work habit of apps and interfaces. kinda like living in the same place for a long time, you know where everything is.

heh, that reminds me of the ending of the web geek vs sales guy video, where after his desktop got sorted the sales guy complains that he will not be able to find anything anymore.

all in all these are people that do more then surf the web, use mail and watch youtube videos. its people that have been eying ultra-portables but could not justify the cost.

if one look at the number of apps that a aspire one provide out of the box, its similar to a winxp laptop with ms office bundled, and maybe then some. at the very least it probably supports more media formats then the windows laptop do unless the company have added some extra sauce.


If people are installing XP because they want to run some Windows-only application like Photoshop or AutoCAD or some high-end recent 3D game ... then what do they think they are doing buying one of these netbook mini-machines?

Talk about barking up the wrong tree.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: hrmf...
by hobgoblin on Wed 13th Aug 2008 14:11 UTC in reply to "RE: hrmf..."
hobgoblin Member since:
2005-07-06

If people are installing XP because they want to run some Windows-only application like Photoshop or AutoCAD or some high-end recent 3D game ... then what do they think they are doing buying one of these netbook mini-machines?

Talk about barking up the wrong tree.


your guess is as good as mine...

Reply Score: 2

A dissagree w/ u
by marcel.luna on Wed 13th Aug 2008 13:14 UTC
marcel.luna
Member since:
2008-08-13

I just can say that it´s the same when you buy a PC or laptop w/ windows. Theres a lot os videos and blogs and forum teaching u how to install linux. I think is the same. It´s like install a distro, every one has your preference. My note cames w/ windows XP MCE, but im using linux.

Reply Score: 2

Forum bias ...
by MacTO on Wed 13th Aug 2008 13:17 UTC
MacTO
Member since:
2006-09-21

Of course forums are going to be biased towards installing and configuring XP. These people are posting to forums specifically because they are trying to do something out of the ordinary. If they were trying something ordinary, like running the pre-installed version of Firefox or OpenOffice, you probably wouldn't hear a peep out of them. After all, most people have better stuff to do than talk to strangers about how great their toys are.

Reply Score: 4

I'm pessimistic
by Alleister on Wed 13th Aug 2008 13:33 UTC
Alleister
Member since:
2006-05-29

As long as i see people installing XP over those Linux distributions, living with default error messages on *every* boot and suffering through non resizable Windows Dialogs which are too big for the Netbook screens, because of "crucial" Apps that won't run on Linux (and which you don't run on a netbook anyway because they are unusable on such devices) i will remain pessimistic.

Reply Score: 4

RE: I'm pessimistic
by lemur2 on Wed 13th Aug 2008 13:53 UTC in reply to "I'm pessimistic"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

As long as i see people installing XP over those Linux distributions, living with default error messages on *every* boot and suffering through non resizable Windows Dialogs which are too big for the Netbook screens, because of "crucial" Apps that won't run on Linux (and which you don't run on a netbook anyway because they are unusable on such devices) i will remain pessimistic.


One of my favourite quotes is this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Schiller#Quotations
"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." - (Talbot in Maid of Orleans)

It fits absolutely perfectly in this context.

Some more context:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/off-the-field/bills-blue-screen-of-death...

http://gizmodo.com/5035456/blue-screen-of-death-strikes-birds-nest-...

Edited 2008-08-13 13:56 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: I'm pessimistic
by cyclops on Wed 13th Aug 2008 22:29 UTC in reply to "I'm pessimistic"
cyclops Member since:
2006-03-12

"critical Apps that won't work on Linux"

If you had said familiar this would have possibly made some sense, and I mean IE instead of Firefox, and WMP instead of Mplayer etc which are hardly complex apps. There are perhaps more for those people using them as little laptops, but its not what they are best at.

Reply Score: 2

Don't care... I'm gettin one.
by gan17 on Wed 13th Aug 2008 13:50 UTC
gan17
Member since:
2008-06-03

I'll definitely be buying one soon... probably before Christmas.... and it'll be a Linux one (not too keen about Linpus, though, so I'll probably install Debian or Ubuntu)

Where I live, I calculated that for the price of a powerful notebook (say one with a new 45nm Centrino2 + 4GBram + Blu-Rey drive), I'd be able to get a similarly spec'd "DIY" desktop and one of these netbooks....

2 beats 1.

All I do when I'm on the road is checking mail, Skype and reading manga.... all of these a netbook is more than adequate for.... plus I've got a desktop that will be easier to upgrade and cheaper to repair back home.

Reply Score: 2

Asus 901 with Linux is not available here
by asgard on Wed 13th Aug 2008 14:06 UTC
asgard
Member since:
2008-06-07

I wanted to buy Asus EEE 901 with Linux (because of Linux), but unfortunately, it's not available in my country (Czech Republic). The localization is not a problem - they have localized Linux version of 701 available here.

But they are apparently worried that people would buy 901 with Linux because of the bigger SSD, and install (pirated) XP on it. So they won't sell it at all here.

I find it amusing that people are wanting XP on it. It is bare bones system, has less battery life (from what I have heard) and is old.

I will have to wait for Acer or Dell to come here with Linux netbook. I think they will have worse parameters than 901 (it has excellent battery life), and I am not sure about good Linux support on Acer (I have an Acer notebook which came with "Linux" preinstalled, and it doesn't have a very compatible hardware).

Reply Score: 1

disagree
by project_2501 on Wed 13th Aug 2008 14:19 UTC
project_2501
Member since:
2006-03-20

I disagree - these netbooks are powerful. A GB of RAM. GBs of storage. CPU cycling at over 1Ghz. these things run XP easily. Linux would only have had a chance if these things were truly underpowered. Turns out power management works better in XP too so adding to the portability.

My netbook has "heavy" Solaris installed and is better specified than some of the production servers at my work place that have been running mission critical services for years (512MB RAM, 15GB disk, 800Mhz cpu).

Reply Score: 3

RE: disagree
by lemur2 on Wed 13th Aug 2008 14:30 UTC in reply to "disagree"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

I disagree - these netbooks are powerful. A GB of RAM. GBs of storage. CPU cycling at over 1Ghz. these things run XP easily. Linux would only have had a chance if these things were truly underpowered. Turns out power management works better in XP too so adding to the portability.


Power management in Linux works fine if the ACPI BIOS is correct.

The netbooks are not powerful enough to run Vista in an acceptable way. XP is end-of-life. The only version of Windows that Microsoft permits to sell on these netbooks is XP home ... which is not viable to use in a business network LAN.

Finally, even if you put XP Pro on such a machine (illegally, since Microsoft will not license it for such use) ... thinking that you need it say to use with a sharepoint server ... think again:

http://www.cmswatch.com/Trends/1331-Alfresco-as-a-SharePoint-altern...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10004398-16.html

It gets more and more difficult every single day to think of a single valid reason why anyone would want XP on such a machine (let alone Vista).

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: disagree
by Adurbe on Wed 13th Aug 2008 15:42 UTC in reply to "RE: disagree"
Adurbe Member since:
2005-07-06

I installed vista on my MSI Wind (advent 4211) to see how it faired, the answer...

fine

no real complaints, seemed about as responsive as xp was

I was running vista Biz btw, nothing stripped out. It behaved on my work network also.

You can buy a xp pro licence and install it legally, as with any other PC, please dont talk rubbish

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: disagree
by lemur2 on Wed 13th Aug 2008 23:48 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: disagree"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

I installed vista on my MSI Wind (advent 4211) to see how it faired, the answer... fine no real complaints, seemed about as responsive as xp was I was running vista Biz btw, nothing stripped out. It behaved on my work network also. You can buy a xp pro licence and install it legally, as with any other PC, please dont talk rubbish


You are restricted (by Microsoft) as to what machines you can be licensed to install XP Home on:

http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/07/microsoft-eases-up-on-ulcpc-crite...

You can no longer buy an XP Pro license.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: disagree
by Adurbe on Fri 15th Aug 2008 16:00 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: disagree"
Adurbe Member since:
2005-07-06
RE[2]: disagree
by project_2501 on Wed 13th Aug 2008 15:45 UTC in reply to "RE: disagree"
project_2501 Member since:
2006-03-20

""
Power management in Linux works fine if the ACPI BIOS is correct.
""

That's a big IF.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: disagree
by intangible on Wed 13th Aug 2008 17:13 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: disagree"
intangible Member since:
2005-07-06

If it comes pre-configured for Linux, then the ACPI should be correct from the factory. ACPI problems should be a non-issue for the Linux versions of netbooks.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: disagree
by PlatformAgnostic on Wed 13th Aug 2008 16:49 UTC in reply to "RE: disagree"
PlatformAgnostic Member since:
2006-01-02

Does Suspend to Ram and Hibernate to Disk work reliably now with typical mobile device drivers? Just curious.

Edited 2008-08-13 16:49 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: disagree
by lemur2 on Wed 13th Aug 2008 23:43 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: disagree"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Does Suspend to Ram and Hibernate to Disk work reliably now with typical mobile device drivers? Just curious.


It will work correctly with a recent Linux kernel installed and a correct ACPI-compliant BIOS.

Unfortunately, that does not however mean that hardware OEM manufacturers are competent enough to ensure that the Linux OS and the BIOS they install actually fulfill these easy-to-meet requirements.

When I see one come out with an independent Linux OS (no deals with Microsoft), engineered for the machine, from a competent supplier:

http://www.canonical.com/netbooks

... then I might be confident enough to answer "yes" to such an enquiry.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: disagree
by PlatformAgnostic on Thu 14th Aug 2008 07:32 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: disagree"
PlatformAgnostic Member since:
2006-01-02

I'm pretty sure that BIOS doesn't play that large of a role in the Windows suspend story. I was under the impression that the Linux suspend problems were on the driver/kernel interface level: http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Separating_Suspend_and_Hibernation.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: disagree
by lemur2 on Thu 14th Aug 2008 10:34 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: disagree"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

I'm pretty sure that BIOS doesn't play that large of a role in the Windows suspend story. I was under the impression that the Linux suspend problems were on the driver/kernel interface level: http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Separating_Suspend_and_Hibernation.


There are problems on some motherboards with ACPI that cause problems with Linux suspend as well.

The recent Foxconn fiasco highlighted this:
http://ubuntu-virginia.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=869249

(Kudos to Foxconn BTW for addressing this issue).

Apparently there is a "smoking gun" email from Bill Gates that was uncovered as evidence in an anti-trust case where Bill writes that Microsoft should "leverage" its work on ACPI to ensure that Linux suspend/resume wouldn't work properly.

I will try to dig up a link for you if you are interested ...

PS: It might be somewhere on this page:
http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=2005010107100653#...

PPS: Found it, here is the link:
http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/3000/PX...

Edited 2008-08-14 10:46 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[6]: disagree
by PlatformAgnostic on Thu 14th Aug 2008 16:45 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: disagree"
PlatformAgnostic Member since:
2006-01-02

That's not what happened. ACPI is an open standard that was developed jointly with Intel and actually published. It may not be a very good standard, but it is a standard nonetheless.

Even if Bill Gates asked the kernel team to develop ACPI in a Windows-specific manner, it's pretty much impossible to do something like that for the type of thing ACPI is. Also, ACPI is only a minor piece of what can go wrong with Suspend/Resume.

It looks like Linux doesn't have a great implementation of power management yet and according to that LKML post, it's moving more towards the Windows method (which has its own problems that have only recently been solved by WDF).

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: disagree
by lemur2 on Fri 15th Aug 2008 04:02 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: disagree"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Even if Bill Gates asked the kernel team to develop ACPI in a Windows-specific manner, it's pretty much impossible to do something like that for the type of thing ACPI is.


We have a specification that is supposed to be open, for a design (motherboard/BIOS) that started out as IBM's design but over time became effecvtively public property.

We have the CEO of the major near-monoply player in the software market that runs atop of that design sending out a memo that suggests a desire to close out some functionality from competitors that also run atop the same design.

Lo and behold, ten years on, we still have closed BIOS implementations that give out incorrect information only when Linux is detected. When the BIOS code is disassembled, it is found to have code that detects the OS and returns different information (which is supposed to reflect the same motherboard after all) depending on what OS it believes is requesting the information. The information is incorrect in subtle ways that at first blush don't appear to be incorrect, yet the errors cause subtle crashes, instability and inability to suspend/resume.

We have motherboard/BIOS suppliers claiming that they are compliant with the open specification when they are not. Finally, we have the developers of the Linux kernel forced to deliberately keep "secret" from the BIOS the fact that a Linux kernel is running, and to pretend instead that Windows 2000 is running.

Make of it all what you will.

Reply Score: 3

Preinstallation: Shoe on the Other Foot
by segedunum on Wed 13th Aug 2008 14:22 UTC
segedunum
Member since:
2005-07-06

The reason why Linux tends to get installed on these devices is because Windows isn't necessary for what people do with them (I'm not rushing to install Office 2007 on here any time soon) and as cheaper devices a Windows license makes up more of the total cost.

Microsoft has mitigated this somewhat with special deals which are nicely ring-fenced via rules as to what a mobile device is, but one wonders how long they can keep on doing that considering how many cheap devices will come along over the next few years. They'll have to do special deals with everyone, and try and convince many manufacturers why Windows is a given.

I firmly believe that many, many of the Linux netbooks are in fact turned into Windows XP netbooks.

I find this funny, mostly because you get jokes about how many people in the world really wipe Windows to put Linux on. The answer is, probably not many, and the reasons are obvious. I just see no evidence for this.

I'm writing this from an eeepc, have installed more operating system than I care to think about and I haven't considered faffing about installing Windows on this machine or even another Linux distro. Why? Firstly, there's nothing running on Windows I want on here and secondly, I just cannot be arsed to start plugging in external drives to install something else. This is more the case on one of these devices than it is for me on any other.

Exactly, the ones that detail how to install Windows XP on netbooks that ship with Linux (and threads that detail with issues concerning XP after installation). Like this one. Or this one. Or this one. Oh, and over here. And so on, and so forth.

There's an awful lot of traffic on the internet about how to install lots of Linux distributions, but I doubt whether the majority are wiping their pre-installed operating system to go with something else.

Reply Score: 7

Linux-only netbooks
by torbenm on Wed 13th Aug 2008 14:37 UTC
torbenm
Member since:
2007-04-23

There are some netbooks that wil never run XP: The cheap Chinese MIPS-clone-based netbooks that sell for around $200. They are, however, hardly worth buying even at that price: Slow CPU (400Mz MIPS clone), little memory (128MB RAM + 2GB flash), low screen resolution (800x480).

But better netbooks could be made using non-x86 processors. Some of the high-end ARM processors can compete with Intel's Atom on compute power and are cheaper, more integrated and less power-hungry. And they run Linux just fine. With the right devicde drivers, you could even run Mac OS X (as on the iPhone). If Apple (as many people think) makes a netbook, it could well be based on ARM and use a variant of the iPhone software.

Reply Score: 2

Dual boot
by jack_perry on Wed 13th Aug 2008 14:41 UTC
jack_perry
Member since:
2005-07-06

Has anyone considered the fact that maybe people are installing Windows so that they can dual-boot Linux and Windows? That might explain the apparent paradox of what the author observes on the forums and what someone has noted about Linux netbooks outselling XP netbooks.

Reply Score: 2

MS going to have to come down on pricing
by Yamin on Wed 13th Aug 2008 15:01 UTC
Yamin
Member since:
2006-01-10

This is another indication that MS is going to have to come down on pricing. As computer prices plummet, to have windows take up 1/3 or more of the cost is just pointless.

For these small devices, windows should be no more than 25 bucks. People would pay that much for windows as opposed to linux.

Reply Score: 1

re
by netpython on Wed 13th Aug 2008 15:19 UTC
netpython
Member since:
2005-07-06

I hope the netbook sales will bring linux more in to the spotlight. I'm confident a lot of people could use them on a day to day basis.

Ordinary people starting to know the name linux would be something. Then again the same niche people who know will likely buy those netbooks so i doubt much will change.

Reply Score: 3

Battery life
by Novan_Leon on Wed 13th Aug 2008 15:45 UTC
Novan_Leon
Member since:
2005-12-07

My biggest problem with these mini-notebooks is the battery life. I'm sorry but a three hours charge doesn't seem very good to me.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Battery life
by darknexus on Wed 13th Aug 2008 17:20 UTC in reply to "Battery life"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

My biggest problem with these mini-notebooks is the battery life. I'm sorry but a three hours charge doesn't seem very good to me.

This is typical with the three-cell batteries a lot of these netbooks ship with. You can get a six-cell battery and double the battery life, but it'll add a bit more weight to the netbook. Personally, I'd take the little bit of weight (we're talking about 1 lb or less here) and get double the battery. You do pay a bit more for those batteries though, and they're not available in all countries. Most of these batteries don't mess up the form factor either, the exception being the six-cells for the hp mininote 2133 series, which a lot of reviewers say are bulky and raise the back of the machine up at an angle. Haven't seen an hp mininote yet so I can't confirm or deny this.

Reply Score: 2

Netbook craze good for Linux
by abraxas on Wed 13th Aug 2008 16:37 UTC
abraxas
Member since:
2005-07-07

Personally I think the netbook craze can be a good thing for Linux. Most netbooks are not powerful enough to run Vista well and XP is decaying slowly now that Microsoft's focus is on Vista. Linux distros need to strike while the iron is hot to get a foothold in the market now. The main focus now should be on improving what makes netbooks popular which means word processing and spreadsheets for business people and students. Also audio/video messaging and social networking tools for people who need to stay connected. As long as Linux netbooks perfect applications commonly used on netbooks (which I believe is far fewer than common laptops) they can get enough consumer attention to possibly cross over into full notebooks and desktop computers.

Reply Score: 2

v Linux? Yeah right!
by theCyberHawk on Wed 13th Aug 2008 16:56 UTC
RE: Linux? Yeah right!
by lemur2 on Wed 13th Aug 2008 23:35 UTC in reply to "Linux? Yeah right!"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

I can configure and detect my network HW without any pain and troubles in Windows XP/Vista... Well, I've tried to do so with either Mandriva One and OpenSUSE without results and with lot of wasted time. Although I dislike Microsoft but Linux is waaaayyy too crappy to catch on on the desktop... Sorry, no big future. It's better if Linux people threw there efforts behind ReactOS since I think it's the only real threat to Microsoft and the only real (viable) alternative.


I don't believe you.

When I installed Mandriva or OpenSuSe or Ubuntu ... each one of them finds the network on boot up to a LiveCD without any configuration whatsoever. In fact they find the network and can use it before they are even installed on the machine.

Windows XP or Vista on the same machine ... can't even recognise the network card out of the box until I insert an additional CD (motherboard drivers CD) after fully installing the OS (having had to reboot two or three time in the process before I even get to that point).

However ... stepping beyond all that ... your point (even if it were true) is utterly moot for a netbook machine with pre-installed Linux on it. Such a machine will have a vastly more functional and useable desktop than any version of Windows pre-installed on the same hardware ... because the Windows machine will not have any Office suite or productivity applications installed.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Linux? Yeah right!
by cyclops on Wed 13th Aug 2008 23:50 UTC in reply to "RE: Linux? Yeah right!"
cyclops Member since:
2006-03-12

"I can configure and detect my network HW without any pain and troubles in Windows XP/Vista... Well, I've tried to do so with either Mandriva One and OpenSUSE without results and with lot of wasted time. Although I dislike Microsoft but Linux is waaaayyy too crappy to catch on on the desktop... Sorry, no big future. It's better if Linux people threw there efforts behind ReactOS since I think it's the only real threat to Microsoft and the only real (viable) alternative.


I don't believe you.

When I installed Mandriva or OpenSuSe or Ubuntu ... each one of them finds the network on boot up to a LiveCD without any configuration whatsoever. In fact they find the network and can use it before they are even installed on the machine.

Windows XP or Vista on the same machine ... can't even recognise the network card out of the box until I insert an additional CD (motherboard drivers CD) after fully installing the OS (having had to reboot two or three time in the process before I even get to that point).

However ... stepping beyond all that ... your point (even if it were true) is utterly moot for a netbook machine with pre-installed Linux on it. Such a machine will have a vastly more functional and useable desktop than any version of Windows pre-installed on the same hardware ... because the Windows machine will not have any Office suite or productivity applications installed.
"

As much as I respect your posts. The netbooks are non-productive devices, they have a whole host of productive uses...its a fantastic troubleshooting device, and to lots here it is, but your points much more relevant to what is bound to happen next, and thats disposable laptops. the Elonex laptop has already been pointed out, and I can only see these getting more and more popular. Microsoft are weaker in this space because only Distributions can supply instant on; everything you need; no maintenance computing, to the technophobic.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Linux? Yeah right!
by tomcat on Thu 14th Aug 2008 04:39 UTC in reply to "RE: Linux? Yeah right!"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

I don't believe you. When I installed Mandriva or OpenSuSe or Ubuntu ... each one of them finds the network on boot up to a LiveCD without any configuration whatsoever. In fact they find the network and can use it before they are even installed on the machine.


So what. You have no fscking clue what network hardware that he's running, so claiming that there will ALWAYS be drivers on a LiveCD is a pile of bullshit.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Linux? Yeah right!
by lemur2 on Thu 14th Aug 2008 06:47 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Linux? Yeah right!"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"I don't believe you. When I installed Mandriva or OpenSuSe or Ubuntu ... each one of them finds the network on boot up to a LiveCD without any configuration whatsoever. In fact they find the network and can use it before they are even installed on the machine.
So what. You have no fscking clue what network hardware that he's running, so claiming that there will ALWAYS be drivers on a LiveCD is a pile of bullshit. "

I made no such claim.

The claim that I did make (paraphrased) is that you are far more likely to find drivers for your network card on a Linux LiveCD or Linux install CD than you are on a Windows install CD.

With Windows, the required drivers for your network card are far more likely tio be found on a separate CD that came with your motherboard or network card as the case may be. It is relevant to note here that netbook machines don't actually have CD drives ...

I also pointed out that the point is moot anyway for a pre-installed OS (either XP or Linux) on a netbook machine (or any machine for that matter) ... either one will have the correct drivers pre-installed for you.

My suggestion ... why don't you go and get YOURSELF a fscking clue?

Reply Score: 4

3g Broadband
by Liberty4All on Wed 13th Aug 2008 17:39 UTC
Liberty4All
Member since:
2008-08-13

I think the moment one of these is offered with integrated 3g wireless I'll unfold my wallet. I intensely dislike broadband USB modems for Windows. I'd be overjoyed if they came pre installed with Linux AND broadband.

Reply Score: 1

RE: 3g Broadband
by fretinator on Wed 13th Aug 2008 17:46 UTC in reply to "3g Broadband"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

I think the moment one of these is offered with integrated 3g wireless I'll unfold my wallet. I intensely dislike broadband USB modems for Windows. I'd be overjoyed if they came pre installed with Linux AND broadband.


This is an honest question, not a flame. I've always wondered what the attraction/benefit is of 3G modems (cards/usb/built-in). I use my phone with Ubuntu (tethered with USB or bluetooth) and get 500k broadband, and it only costs me an additional $15/month on my phone plan for unlimitted use. It seems like the broadband card plans cost about $40-$60/month for unlimited. Are they that much better speed? I've never figured out the attraction.

Reply Score: 2

v linux.. haha
by mrnagrom on Wed 13th Aug 2008 19:20 UTC
v Maybe not
by Ricardo_NY on Wed 13th Aug 2008 19:28 UTC
RE: Maybe not
by irbis on Wed 13th Aug 2008 22:27 UTC in reply to "Maybe not"
irbis Member since:
2005-07-08

If people still have to type command lines the answer is NO.

You can already install and use, for example, Ubuntu Linux without touching the commandline. If you don't want commands, simply don't use them. Commands may help a lot but they are not absolutely necessary. Using commands is just an extra feature that especially power users tend to like.

Absolute computer newbies have hard time learning to use computer mice and Windows menus and other features too. You know, I've helped tens of active Windows users who still didn't have the slightest idea what, for example, a Windows control panel or Windows Update is, to configure and use their Windows PCs... Learning new technology takes time what ever the user interface is.

Although I tend to agree that MS Windows has had rather good usability, and that Linux desktops have not often reached the same level of unification and ease of use, the common feeling that Linux would be very difficult doesn't have very much to do with commandline features. It has more to do with the geeky history and social and cultural image of Linux, and Linux simply being different, and not as widely used everywhere like MS Windows is. Many are just used to the Windows way of doing things, are afraid of PCs in general and are afraid to learn new operating systems just because they have had enough of traumatic experiences with MS Windows already... Another important thing is that the software that people are used to (Photoshop, games etc.) may not be available for Linux.

I know many people who have been tempted to buy an Apple Mac (Macs are supposed to be super easy to use, aren't they?) but have chosen a Windows PC instead of a Mac - just because they are used to MS Windows already. So the choice has not had much to do with "poor" Mac usability or with Macs having a commandline too... Macs are just different and people who find computers in general difficult, may avoid them if they don't have any Mac geeks near to help them.

Reply Score: 3

My prediction
by tomcat on Wed 13th Aug 2008 21:57 UTC
tomcat
Member since:
2006-01-06

Anybody who thinks that Microsoft is going to cede the ultra-mobile market to Linux is crazy. Nope, Microsoft will give steep price cuts -- just like they made price cuts for the XO (XP on XO costs approx $3) -- and price won't be a differentiator at all. And doing this won't be a stretch for Microsoft, since the ultra-mobile segment is a new market category, and Microsoft has already done the work to downsize XP to fit on XO. It has been very beneficial to have Linux place competitive pressure on Microsoft, though.

That said, I don't believe that the ultra-mobile market is really that sizable. Please don't mistake my comments as disparaging the ultra-mobile concept. I think it's an interesting concept, it fills a definite niche, and I do expect it to grow. BUT ... given the fact that an ultra-mobile machine costs essentially the same amount as a low-end notebook, I have a hard time believing that the sweet-spot of the market is going to move to ultra-mobile machines. After all, ultra-mobile machines can't link to iTunes, they lack a DVD+/-R drive, the screen is comparatively tiny and not really suited for long use, etc. In my estimation, they're more of a geek toy for corporate execs and IT guys, not a broad-market thing.

I won't be buying one, personally, but it will appeal to early-adopting toy-buyers.

Edited 2008-08-13 22:08 UTC

Reply Score: 0

RE: My prediction
by wrocic on Wed 13th Aug 2008 23:20 UTC in reply to "My prediction"
wrocic Member since:
2008-07-10

At the minute, the netbooks are costing a touch under the cost of a low-end laptop.
However, have a look at the Elonex One, at less than £100

http://www.elonexone.co.uk/

Don't know exactly how useful this one might be, but if it can play mp4 or divx it might end up to be a cheapo travelling companion for me ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE: My prediction
by lemur2 on Thu 14th Aug 2008 00:57 UTC in reply to "My prediction"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Anybody who thinks that Microsoft is going to cede the ultra-mobile market to Linux is crazy. Nope, Microsoft will give steep price cuts -- just like they made price cuts for the XO (XP on XO costs approx $3) -- and price won't be a differentiator at all. And doing this won't be a stretch for Microsoft, since the ultra-mobile segment is a new market category, and Microsoft has already done the work to downsize XP to fit on XO.


Does it work properly, though? There is some doubt:
http://blog.laptopmag.com/exclusive-hands-on-with-olpcs-xo-running-...
http://www.liliputing.com/2008/08/xp-on-the-xo-needs-more-ram.html

It has been very beneficial to have Linux place competitive pressure on Microsoft, though. That said, I don't believe that the ultra-mobile market is really that sizable. Please don't mistake my comments as disparaging the ultra-mobile concept. I think it's an interesting concept, it fills a definite niche, and I do expect it to grow. BUT ... given the fact that an ultra-mobile machine costs essentially the same amount as a low-end notebook, I have a hard time believing that the sweet-spot of the market is going to move to ultra-mobile machines. After all, ultra-mobile machines can't link to iTunes, they lack a DVD+/-R drive, the screen is comparatively tiny and not really suited for long use, etc. In my estimation, they're more of a geek toy for corporate execs and IT guys, not a broad-market thing. I won't be buying one, personally, but it will appeal to early-adopting toy-buyers.


http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080813-intel-thrilled-with-a...

... for a very different view (coming from Intel themselves).

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: My prediction
by tomcat on Thu 14th Aug 2008 04:35 UTC in reply to "RE: My prediction"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Does it work properly, though? There is some doubt


Not surprisingly, you neglected to mention this important point from YOUR OWN LINK. Why am I not surprised? You're shameless.

"Updated Editor’s Note:It has been brought to our attention that the XO we saw yesterday at OLPC’s offices was not the final release of the XP software. In fact, OLPC showed us a prototype XO that should significantly differ from the final release to Microsoft manufacturing (RTM) version.

Michael Gartenberg of Jupiter Research has actually had the RTM version of the XO with XP for a few weeks and is reporting that his experience has NOT been the same as ours. The XO with XP that we saw did not have the correct commercial BIOS slated to ship in Phase-1 devices nor the final 2GB SD card. Gartenberg reports that his system boots in less than a minute. OLPC and Microsoft have told us that application boot time is much quicker."


... for a very different view (coming from Intel themselves).


Would you seriously expect Intel to say they aren't excited about their own product? How is this news, or even relevant to anything that I said?

Reply Score: 0

Pave the way? Not sure...
by dlundh on Thu 14th Aug 2008 06:09 UTC
dlundh
Member since:
2007-03-29

They will certainly get a lot of people who have never tried Linux to do so, and let's face it - some of them will like it, some will not.

Of those who don't, many will install something else and some won't do anything about it (a LOT of people do not know how to install operating systems of any kind, let alone something as likely to go wrong as a fresh XP or Linux install).

If some of the really small guys came out with insanely great support for Netbook hardware, say SkyOS or Syllable - that would make waves in the press and might get people curious enoguh to try it out.

Who knows, they might like it?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Pave the way? Not sure...
by lemur2 on Thu 14th Aug 2008 11:38 UTC in reply to "Pave the way? Not sure..."
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

If some of the really small guys came out with insanely great support for Netbook hardware, say SkyOS or Syllable - that would make waves in the press and might get people curious enoguh to try it out.

Who knows, they might like it?


In order to get drivers, you need a bit of "volume" behind your effort. SkyOS and Syllable and quite a number of other alternative OS projects just don't have the mindshare that Linux is gathering.

For example, the latest Linux kernel now includes drivers for most of the Atheros wireless chipsets (The Atheros ath9k Now In The Kernel):

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjY1Mg

... and support for full 3D drivers for ATI graphics chipsets is slowly emerging:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_r600_soon&nu...

... and Linux is gathering native support for some really high-end graphics cards:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_4870x2_open&...

... AFAIK, that just about only leaves Broadcomm and Nvidia out in the cold.

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nvidia_173_14_12...

:( ... for Nvidia and Broadcomm.

Reply Score: 2

Hope...
by spanglywires on Thu 14th Aug 2008 21:35 UTC
spanglywires
Member since:
2006-10-23

I *HOPE* that Linux does make some in roads on UMPC/netbooks/whatever they are called. I have an Asus EEE 900 (too impatient to wait for the 901) and quite honestly, the built in Xandros is a total disaster. Its slow, its got security holes as its such an old release of Xandros and Firefox etc. The driver support is bare minimum with no updates. It just kinda works, but not very elegantly.

Ubuntu-eee and eeebuntu kind-of improve things, but neither works properly. Time will tell but its not looking good right now.

To be fair, most of it is due to Asus and the hardware manufacturers (ie Atheros) not releasing the sources and specs.

Fingers crossed...

Reply Score: 1

RE: Hope...
by lemur2 on Fri 15th Aug 2008 00:28 UTC in reply to "Hope..."
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

I *HOPE* that Linux does make some in roads on UMPC/netbooks/whatever they are called. I have an Asus EEE 900 (too impatient to wait for the 901) and quite honestly, the built in Xandros is a total disaster. Its slow, its got security holes as its such an old release of Xandros and Firefox etc. The driver support is bare minimum with no updates. It just kinda works, but not very elegantly. Ubuntu-eee and eeebuntu kind-of improve things, but neither works properly. Time will tell but its not looking good right now. To be fair, most of it is due to Asus and the hardware manufacturers (ie Atheros) not releasing the sources and specs. Fingers crossed...


Try Mandriva 2008.1 on an EEEPC ... it is supposed to work.

http://eeepc.net/mandriva-20081-works-with-eee-pcs/

As for Atheros ... they have indeed released specs, they have even hired a programmer to produce open source driver code, and the resulting open source drivers are now part of the kernel ...

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjY1Mg

The problem here is strictly with ASUS and Xandros, not with Atheros or Linux.

Edited 2008-08-15 00:29 UTC

Reply Score: 2

XP or Linux ? why not both
by Different on Fri 15th Aug 2008 04:10 UTC
Different
Member since:
2007-07-03

You can always install XP on a dual boot Netbook or use a thin client software such ThinServer to "run" Windows on the Netbook

http://www.aikotech.com/thinserver.htm

Reply Score: 1

OSX on Netbooks
by Onetrack on Sun 17th Aug 2008 16:20 UTC
Onetrack
Member since:
2006-03-17

One thing people seem to be missing is the fact that the Atom processor in these netbooks can run OSX Leopard very well. Here is a short performance video I made on an MSI Wind with an intel Atom n270 @ 1.6ghz to drive that point home.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=a3CNIO4ZLYE

Reply Score: 1