OSNews

like this:

"honey I got you a present, go ahead open it. Its a new Mac laptop. What do you mean you don't know how to use OSX? oh i'm so sorry, i forgot you have a windows machine. Well I don't think i can return it, why dont we keep it and i can teach you how to use it every now and then. ok good, let me know when you want me to show you how it works... *darts off quickly with the laptop before wife has a chance to answer*

(this trick borrowed from a simposons episode where Homer buys himself a bowling ball with his name on it and tries to pass it off as a gift to Marge and keep it).

now as we all know a successfull relationship is built on honesty and trust (haha) but a more manipulative and slightly deciptive relationship gets you the mac laptop faster. personaly i think the trade off is worth it, these are awsome

Edited 2008-10-14 19:40 UTC

poundsmack suggested...

Noooo! Don't you remember the way that episode went? If you do that your wife will just end up taking the MacBook to a Apple store and run off Justin Long! THERE IS NO WAY THIS COULD BE A GOOD THING!

...might be epic though. Be sure to post pics if and when it happens, 'k?

--bornagainpenguin

didnt see the end, got 10 minutes into the episode before i got distracted buying my girlfriend a *gift* (hello old gaming machine)

poundsmack joked...

Oh man, how could you have missed it?!?

That's a very famous episode...still you wouldn't be the only one to get bit on the rear for not having seen the entire episode:

http://www.snopes.com/humor/mediagoofs/dearabby.asp

--bornagainpenguin

+1.

I'll try that.

Well, to start with, the price...

I know, troll, sorry.

I'd have to agree. I just compared an identically specced MBP to a Dell XPS and the dell was $900 (CAD) cheaper. I still want a new MacBook to replace my trusty old iBook but I might save up and wait for the next revision.

What material is your XPS made from? How does that compare to the Macbook?

just to answer your question: magnesium alloy. it's lighter and more robust than aluminium.

What's not to like? The lack of firewire for one. No target mode, no support for firewire camcorders, no support for audio interfaces. Also no express card slot to make up for the lost functionality.
Price is yet another point. They could've captured a lot of marketshare by pricing it lower, yet they insist on lowering the profit margins. That's no good news. They seem to no longer target the semi-pro crowd with that, but the general public would care less and instead opt for an alternative that is much cheaper.

Someone please tell me that Apple wasn't actually dumb enough to remove Firewire support from the plain 'ol Macbook. I hope it's the MB Air you're referring to - I know several people who purchased MacBooks, solely because they're a convenient way to import/edit video.

No, it is indeed the plain 'ole MacBook he's referring to.

I can finally stop ranting about the poor graphic performance... only to have another thing to knock it down. I think the number of people not able to use cameras or dabble in music, video, or podcast production really kills the point of getting the Apple machines. These new frames are probably absurdly expensive to manufacture... 2.5 lb. blocks of aircraft grade aluminum are not cheap, it's probably killing their margin. The nvidia chipset would not have included firewire and that would have been extra cost to add it back in on top of the extra cost of having a GPU now. Apple could have made up the price difference using slower processors and let performance be the key. That said Apple computers without firewire or expansion to add it is a big problem. They just kicked out a large group of customers from buying the cool Apple toys at the store. I suppose that's why they left the $999 vanilla macbook, to clear out inventory and to provide the firewire for those that need it.

I'd agree the lack of firewire is a face-smack to those building up a collection of mac-happy devices. The cheapest Macbook Pro is simply way too much money to justify unless you need the machine for work.

what exactly gave you the impression that Apple cares about capturing a bigger market share? Plus the increase in price and the feature reduction is due to the increase of manufacturing cost. A solid piece of aluminum and new manufacturing technology = high production costs. Ever wonder why no other company does that? But not to worry in about a year the price will be back to normal and I am guessing most of the features will be back with their latest revisions. Anyway Steve definitely lost my money this time around. Oh and the MBP DOES NOT have sli by default. Not to mention that it's a pain switching between cards...

I have to agree. I've been a long-time Thinkpad fan (primarily the x* series) - and while I still prefer them for my own use, the Macbook is the laptop I generally recommend to customers, co-workers, friends, etc.

As laptops go, the Macbook is the "just right" (to quote Goldilocks) for most people.

Actually, I didn't like'em so much. I prefer the looks of the actual MacBook line. So I guess I'll be running to a store soon so I can get a current generation MacBook before it goes away.

EDIT: And I just found out that the new MBs lack FireWire.

Edited 2008-10-14 20:21 UTC

Introducing the Apple iProduct...
http://cache.gizmodo.com/gadgets/images/iProduct.gif

On a serious note now, I wish Apple offered a black MacBookPro. When I see these white/silver keys and actually most of the case is silver, I can imagine how quickly it gets dirty. A 2-year old yellow Mac doesn't cut the mustard...

And a glossy black MacBookPro would be gorgeous.

:)

You fear that the silver one gets dirty quickly, but you'd wish for a glossy black one? I don't think there would be a big difference...

I think there is a difference. I have a black and glossy "Western Digital Passport" external hard drive, and it still looks brand new after a year (granted it's not like a keyboard, but still).

I used to have a white keyboard and after a few years, it got yellow, and cleaning it with a cloth and alcohol didn't remove the yellowish dirt.

I see that the new macbook pro does have black key, so it's not too bad, but there are still parts that aren't, such as the parts that you put your fists on.

Say... do you type on that external hard drive, or carry it with your hands, or open and close it, or do anything that requires you handling that black glossy device?

Because I can guarantee you that glossy black surfaces are a magnet for finger prints....

I bribed her to let me get an iMac about two months ago.

Here's how I did it:
"I'll sell every PC in the house (save the two servers in the closet) except the iBook. I'll sell all the parts I won't need any more. I'll clean out everything and throw old stuff that I can't use and can't sell out. And I'll get the nursery painted by the end of October."

That -almost- worked. But she wanted more. If I can go out and drop a thousand bucks on something that I arguably need, she wanted the right to do the same -- on a dresser (that can double as a changing table) for the nursery (baby due in December). I know she'll want the well-built dresser that costs $600+.

Since I've done a bit of woodworking the last few years, and I feel comfortable making a dresser, I pledged to build a dresser by the end of Nov. If I fail to, she gets to go buy whatever the hell she wants. Which means we'll have a $1200 dresser for a baby's room. Oh God.

But that was what it took. So I agreed.

Well, it's half-way through October, and I don't have the nursery painted. I'm still in the process of cleaning out all the 'stuff' from that room that once was my office. The next two weeks are going to be 'fire-sale on craigslist' time.

The next hardware refresh in our house will bring in a new laptop. Down the line, I'd like to replace the two 2U rackmount dual P3 servers with some smaller nano-based boxes and a disk array.

I'd like to cut the electricity bill.

Now that is cool. Give me one of those with a 16gb drive and sell it for NZ$799 and I'll purchase one straight away

If they require firewire, they'll be buying a Pro...

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html

Gotcha!

Yeah right. Most people don't need the Pro and won't want to pay the price. And considering how Apple is going on and on in their MacBook video about how much they're thinking about the consumer, this is ridiculous.

And yes, many camcorders coming out these days save to flash memory or hard disks. But a lot still don't, and the notion of having to buy a new camcorder just to be compatible with a new MacBook is even more ridiculous than the idea of having to buy a MacBook Pro.

That's the "gotcha." Though I hardly doubt anyone is doing professional video editing on a Macbook...

That's the "gotcha." Though I hardly doubt anyone is doing professional video editing on a Macbook... "

Do you think the Professional Video Editing market is driving the YouTube generation? Not hardly. It's the Macbook crowd who upload low quality videos very often.

Most of the junk on YouTube is of low quality. Most of the junk comes from College students.

They aren't going to be pulling an additional several hundreds bones out their asses to go to the Pro.

Most of the junk on YouTube is of low quality. Most of the junk comes from College students.

They aren't going to be pulling an additional several hundreds bones out their asses to go to the Pro.

You're saying Apple did a good thing then? To keep cheap DV cameras off the YouTubies...

You will be surprised to see how many people use these macbooks -- because they are small -- as viewing devices during shoots. Macbook Pros don't always required for HDV editing, a Macbook is PLENTY enough in speed for editing HDV or DV. So there is no reason to buy a Pro just because you think that DV/HDV video editing is heavy. But now, we are forced to pay $700 more for a firewire port!!!

Additionally, you forget that it's not only about professionals. 85% of home users have DV or HDV cameras, *not* the USB-based AVCHD just yet. So if these people can't use iMovie anymore, they won't buy this Macbook.

It's the same for home audio recording people, who use Garageband. It's a real blow to them too.

Trust me, this is a real problem for the Macbook. This is not an effort to belittle Apple, it's a real problem for potential customers, ranging from home users to pros. It makes more sense to buy the older Macbook model than the current one if you are into A/V.

No, Eugenia, they deserve to be belittled for such a monumental **** up. I don't believe in giving out lauds for badly designed items.

Dave

the lack of firewire is screwing me and my company

everyone loves the macbooks, apple won't make another small high end laptop like the old 12" powerbook, so the macbook is the next best thing

our photographers, our video guys, our designers, all MUST have firewire

if you have ever done an A and B side by side test between usb2 throughput and firewire throughput (not to mentione firewire's scsi like daisy chaining ability), then you know what i am talking about

usb2 has a theoretically faster throughput, but in the real world it is a joke when compared to firewire, especially when multiple devices need to be connected

i am directly in charge of technology buying for a very popular apparel company, this decision by apple is screwing my people and my self

will this force me to pay an exorbitant amount more for the larger in size mbp? NO! this will force me to seek out the previous generation black/white macbooks

not to mention...no more firewire target mode? great, so now i get to pretend i'm fixing a pc and use live boot media or yank the drive out

this decision is completely retarded for what i do and what the people i support do, keep your nvidia gaming/hd movie watching chipset and give me back firewire you sucka's! =p

i'm sorry, but i was going to place an order for one today, until i saw that the no firewire port thing was not rumor, but fact, so wack...steve jobs needs to go back to eating lsd and put the crack pipe down =p

it's ok, you can still purchase the previous macbook with firewire if you need it so badly. Sure the macbook is white and plastic but they are sturdy devices.

I know you probably didn't mean anything by calling the decision completely retarded, but for those of us with special needs kids, it's really very hurtful to read.

You do remember why the iMac DV (PowerPC G3 400 MHz, October 1999) was called DV, right?

Or they'll be not.

My Toshiba A200 is as powerful as the older MacBook units (and with a 15" LCD) and went for around AU $1300, some $500 cheaper. And that's with a copy of Vista, which is far more expensive than OS X.

Way overpriced. I'm glad I don't fall for the JBWA (JobsBrainWashingRoutine) that so many Apple Lovers TM do. I don't care if I get modded down, Apple is a mongrel of a company with overpriced products, and overrated products. Period.

Dave

It all depends on whether you're happy being stuck with Windows - that is the differentiator when it comes to Mac versus PC; do you want to run Windows or Mac OS X? The great irony of the whole thing, there are alot of great pieces of hardware out there (I personally love the Thinkpad/Thinkcentre range). Its funny the number of Mac users who would buy a Thinkpad or some other brand if they could run Mac OS X legally on it.

kaiwai mused...

Which is precisely why Jobs will never allow any clones as long as he is the CEO of Apple. At least not licensed ones any way, and we've all seen with the iPhones how willing Apple is to break software via updates...

--bornagainpenguin

Which is precisely why Jobs will never allow any clones as long as he is the CEO of Apple. At least not licensed ones any way, and we've all seen with the iPhones how willing Apple is to break software via updates...

--bornagainpenguin "

I some times wonder whether it would be better for Apple to purchase Adobe and turn into a software company who is picky about whom they licence the operating system too. On an OEM to OEM basis to ensure there is a consistent quality standard.

Yes, and this is why Apple is a bastard company, far far far far worse than microsoft ever has, or ever will be.

Dave

Oh, OS X is nice, yes, but it's not a deal breaker to me. Vista is damn nice imho, runs extremely well, looks good, and is very functional. let's remove parallels or bootcamp and OS X is piss weak software wise. Vista is godo out of the box, without any virtualisation. 'nuff said.

I'd be nice to see Microsoft cripple Apple by refusing to release Office for OS X. It really would be a nice pay back. Apple is really one of those bastard companies.

Dave

For me, I want the UNIX core, I want to be able to drop down to bash, and deal with a proper UNIX system. Sure, I could use Microsoft's half-assed, half-baked implementation called 'UNIX Subsystem', but it would require me purchasing Windows Vista Ultimate. Even after purchasing Windows Vista Ultimate and installing the UNIX Subsystem, it is still going to have the ugliness of Windows trying to appear to be a UNIX machine - only to find it still feels like one is using Windows.



Why are they a bastard company? the fact that Microsoft hasn't done a single damn thing with their operating system in the last 30 years? the fact we're subjected to the same crap from Windows NT since its inception - the continuous half baked compromises. The fact that Windows Vista to this day, is bloated inconsistent and a giant let down from the day it was released.

Sorry, if there was ever a 'bastard of a company', it would be Microsoft selling products which they hyped up, only to find that after spending several hundred on a new copy of Windows Vista, find that it is no better than the previous operating system; and in some cases, a step backwards.

If there was ever a bastard company, it is Microsoft - and now they are pissing and moaning because Apple is taking marketshare. Well, I say tough shit. They screwed the end user year after year, release after release - and now they are getting just deserts. I say, let them eat cake!

Well, Microsoft certainly hasn't been an angel, but I can guarantee that it's done a lot more for the computer industry than Apple ever has. The main driving force for computer hardware has been games. And Microsoft has been THE platform for games. The sheer commonness of Microsoft deployment has lead to cheaper hardware, and more powerful hardware as it tries to keep up with the software demands. Apple has always been a niche market of brainwashed users, a nutcase fanatical briefcase of blinded idiots.

Sure, Microsoft isn't perfect, but Vista (and Windows in general( works *just* fine for the VAST majority of people. It hasn't been users whipping up anti Vista sentiments, it's been the goddamn press media industry. And in most cases, it's been undeserved. UAC is not an issue, I've left it on and it rarely comes up. It's certainly no worsh than dropping to a shell and using sudo or su.

Not everyone uses or needs a shell, in fact, most people don't even know what DOS is, let alone how to get into it. And I'm not even touching the actually using it bit.

Apple continuously denies hardware issues, and only as a very last resort will it do anything (iPod mini issues, powerbook g4 battery issues both spring to mind). Apple will sue the ass of anyone it wants to. It's a legal bastard. As a company, it's a ****ing **** of a company to work for. I'll never work for a US company again, EVER. Have a look at the Apple kbase, it ****ing sucks now, a few years ago it was FAR superior. Why have they done this? So people can't find the answers and are forced to ring Apple for paid support. iTunes and encrypted MP3s? iPods with non removeable batteries and HUGE prices to get the ****ers fixed should something go wrong (highly likely). OS X with a multitude of bugs from each generation, most of which have NOT been fixed? Leopard has been a half baked disaster by all accounts, certainly no better than Vista, if not worse. I could go on, and on, and on...I'd rather Microsoft any day than Apple. Apple is a sly, bitch of a ****ed up company that I wouldn't piss on if it was on fire. Their products are good (mostly) but not the super hyped up crap that their idiotic fanbase incessantly blabbers on about.

Dave

So yet another person perpetuating the lie that Microsoft created the 'computer revolution'. If Bill Gates died at child birth - there still would have been a computer revolution - but it would have been some other vendor. Microsoft contributed nothing to the 'gaming industry'. Stop trying to grovel before Microsoft - with their contribution of nothing to the IT industry.



Based on what evidence? or do you need to resort to name calling?



Bullcrap. Windows Vista is a half baked piece of crap. If I sat down and pointed every piece of inconsistency - by the end of the day you would want to blow your brains out.



I want a damn shell, and a damn shell should be a common sense feature of any operating system. Why does Microsoft insist on doing things so different to the point of doing things an inferior way just to be different for the sake of being different?



And how is that any different to the denial Microsoft is putting up about Windows Vista?



Great, more broad sweeping generalisations - you're really on a roll tonight.

Edited 2008-10-15 22:28 UTC

quick guess, apple is slowly making people used to thinking of macbooks and imacs as entertainment consuming devices (think itms terminal), while the stuff marked pro is just that, aimed at the people with multiple DSLR's and HD video cams.

then when they have that split solidified, they can start showing of some kind of new os on their macbook and imac lines, simplified for entertainment consumption, mobileme and iwork.

hello "netbook", apple style.

or maybe we should call it a overgrown iphone?

hobgoblin posted...

I believe that's already been released as the HP Touch Smart:

http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaigns/touchsmart/alt/tsalt.html

--bornagainpenguin

wont stop people from cheering apple on as a innovator if they release a product of that kind.

btw, front row makes it kinda there already...

hobgoblin pointed out...

Heh and just imagine the Smart Touch running OSX86, with a hacked copy of the @ppleTV...yeah this is very nearly already there!

--bornagainpenguin

Upgrade to a new camcorder that uses USB. This seems to be the trend I'm seeing. The majority of the camcorders on Best Buy's website are using USB. A few of them are still using FireWire but they are on their way out.

A word of warning: Be careful what you buy. A camera that includes USB support does not necessarily support USB *on a Mac*. I speak from experience with two different camcorders (both Sony I believe, standard-definition DV models from a few years ago). They claimed USB support but it turned out special Windows drivers were a requirement for said support, and no Mac drivers were available.

If a camcorder you're looking at records to internal memory or flash media, you're probably safe, as you can usually copy the files directly over by connecting it as a mass-storage device.

If however it records to some kind of tape, don't buy it unless you are **absolutely, 100%** sure that it has *Mac USB* support, as recording from tape over USB always requires some kind of special driver.

Amen. You won't hear complaints from the pro Apple crowd here, they don't seem to give a **** about any negative (and constructive) criticism of Apple products. For an AU $2000+ laptop, I'd EXPECT FireWire capability.

What retard designed these new MacBooks? I find it especially odd, since Apple pioneered ieee1394 (as iLink) many years ago, way before it became a feature on PCs.

Might be time to hunt for nice bargains on the older MacBook units imho. I don't play much in the way of games, so fancy Nvidia graphics adaptors aren't needed for me. Which reminds me, why has Apple been charging a price premium for notebooks that have a crappy Intel onboard video graphics chip? Equivalent "PC" laptops offer far more features for far better value. It's a real pity that Apple won't let OS X onto generic computers, but then, it makes a nice buck from it's MHT (monopolistic hardware tax).

I definitely think it's far nicer to hack OS X and put it on a PC laptop ;-)

Dave

Wasn't Sony the one using the name iLink, since they couldn't/didn't want to license the FireWire trademark from Apple?

yeah, true, although interestingly, at internal Apple tech training, we were taught that it was originally called iLink. It wasn't until after I'd finished up with Apple that I realised that we were taught the wrong thing, old habits die hard though, and I still refer to it as iLink.

Dave

Probably no "retard" designed this is my guess. As the mom of a special needs child I took great offensive at your comment. My kid is doing the best she can. Wish I could say the same thing about you.
Slurs can really hurt so if that was your intention, you have succeeded.

because their manufacturing technology does not scale all the way up to the 17" case. The larger the detail gets the more waste you create and the more expensive the manufacturing is. Not so with the older manufacturing.

The glossy screens are an unfortunate design decision. If the build quality of Thinkpads was not going downhill under Lenovo management, then the decision would be an easy one.

That is correct.

exactly! the cheaper old one has the premium port on it now =p but i can NOT do work on the new one and play wow all night long...foolios i swear =p

I could possibly understand the rationale if there were USB 3.0 instead of USB 2.0, and there were tonnes of USB 3.0 devices. Then one could make a legitimate argument that Firewire on consumer versions makes little sense given the movement to USB 3.0 which is comparable to Firewire.

I'm still scratching my head to work out the rationale behind it, because it doesn't make sense. I'm also wondering what is going to happen to the white MacBook - are we finally going to see it get a x4500? I like the new MacBooks but given the GPU's are battery hogs, and there is no upgrade to the existing MacBook white range; I'm going to be in a confused state in 2 years time when I go about updating my hardware.

Modern GPUs are not battery hogs. It's always nice to have the processing power available should you ever do anything processor intensive.

do note that its "only" a 400, while the pro's get a 800 port.

Even so, I have my Firewire hard disk hooked up to my iMac (and use it on my MacBook too) and find I get a much more sustained throughput than I would using USB 2.0 (the external drive has Firewire 400, USB 2.0 and eSATA).

That's why there's no firewire - all the money went on thumbscoop research

when it comes to apple products, user experience is king.

Hmm... I guess flipping the lid open from that thumb scoop must be a pretty exhilarating experience.

Worth every penny!

The new macbooks do not appear to have an anti-glare option. Where do you see this option?

hmm, seems i got the apple webshop a bit confused, as the 17" macbook pro was not refreshed alongside the others. so it still have a antiglare option, unlike the rest of them.

funny enough, given its lack of refresh, it seems the only good thing about that model right now is the screen option. all the other stuff is outperformed by the new 15" pro, on paper at least.