Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 3rd Nov 2008 19:25 UTC
Windows Microsoft's Professional Developers Conference might be over, but that doesn't mean news about Windows 7 suddenly stops coming in. We have news for you on the elusive MinWin kernel, which created a sort of crazy hype a year ago, and Rafael Rivera found a way to enable the new taskbar on the pre-beta build handed out to PDC attendees. This build, carrying number 6801, didn't have the latest taskbar revamp - you needed a newer build for that, build 6933, which hasn't been released to the public.
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by hraq on Mon 3rd Nov 2008 20:20 UTC
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This version of windows 7 is very fast when compared to vista; plus it was less annoying; scaling to bigger dpi now works fine and makes your screen readable without glitches; refused to install Symantec Endpoint protection 11 x86; It has accepted nvidia latest drivers for GF9800GTS and I was able to play FarCry african action game with fantastic graphics on DX10.

Network access speed needs to be more faster.
73 active processes arerunning when you log on with nothing loaded and alot of services are running too; but despite this things seem to be on steroids. RAM usage is high around 500MB but RAM now is cheap.

Hardware: Asus P5e WS + E4700 CPU + 8GB RAM + GF9800GTS

Nested windows still not fixed and you will never find quickly whatever you want unless you search for it.

Network daemon is a very very good tool now.

I will be further testing it and check on its stability.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Fast
by linumax on Tue 4th Nov 2008 03:30 UTC in reply to "Fast"
linumax Member since:

...refused to install Symantec Endpoint protection"

In my book, refusing to install any Symantec products is a most welcome consumer protection feature. ;)

Edited 2008-11-04 03:31 UTC

Reply Score: 12

RE: Fast
by MollyC on Tue 4th Nov 2008 06:09 UTC in reply to "Fast"
MollyC Member since:

"Nested windows still not fixed and you will never find quickly whatever you want unless you search for it."

I've been using Visa for a while now, but am unfamiliar with the "nested windows" problem. Can you tell me problem you're referring to?

I also don't know what "you will never find quickly whatever you want unless you search for it" means, so can you explain that too? ;)

Edited 2008-11-04 06:12 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Fast
by suryad on Wed 5th Nov 2008 15:06 UTC in reply to "Fast"
suryad Member since:

I think I am going to spend some time this weekend building a vm to test out this W7 build. Thanks for the informative post!

Reply Score: 2

MinWIn Expectations
by PlatformAgnostic on Mon 3rd Nov 2008 20:32 UTC
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Just to set some specific matters straight: MinWin so far involves absolutely no changes to the NT Kernel itself. It mainly contains changes to the way the low-level usermode parts of Windows (like kernel32.dll, advapi32.dll and others) relate to each other and to higher level dlls. The NT subsystems have long been well-componentized and do not need modification.

Edited 2008-11-03 20:43 UTC

Reply Score: 3

v Very uninpressed!
by kragil on Mon 3rd Nov 2008 20:55 UTC
The Core of Windows
by REM2000 on Mon 3rd Nov 2008 21:00 UTC
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As it has been said before the core of windows is actually very well written, as is a lot of their components. I have seen in many forums people asking for a newer File system or Microsoft to move Windows to ZFS, and the question is why. NTFS as a lot of Windows systems is very reliable, mature and very modern, it has been evolved over many years.

I think the main problem with vista on Release was the userland the UI. In many ways it was hurried, placing a large botchy stack of code on top of a solid foundation. However a year and a Service Pack we have a windows which should have always been. Vista is now reliable and fast enough for anyone to use. Memory alone has changed from using approx 1GB idle to 600MB idle.

The old adage of Microsoft is still very much true (perhaps it's true of a great many companies). That when left the company releases any old crap (i always though Windows XP fell into this catagory, as it offered nothing really over Windows 2000). However when microsoft has competition they work hard and produce some excellent products, for this i have always held up Windows Server as an example. As windows has always been seen as the runt of the NOS, Microsoft had to work hard to get into the server market and get itself seen as a serious contender. Windows 2008 Server is an excellent product that offers features, speed and reliability galore.

Which now leaves Windows 7, which i have great hopes for. I have always prided myself as software/hardware argonostic, in that i will use whatever fits the purpose. I am a massive fan of Apple Mac's for home and iLife uses such as photography and video. Windows ive always found to be a better client for day to day working such as office documents etc.. Where as although i do like Linux a lot i still mainly use as a server OS.

Roll on 2009/10 the OS scene is getting more interesting every year.

Reply Score: 2

RE: The Core of Windows
by kragil on Mon 3rd Nov 2008 21:54 UTC in reply to "The Core of Windows"
kragil Member since:

600 mb for just the OS. "Not bad."

But Vista is _NOT_ for everybody. You always have to check your application compatibility. It is crazy.

For example: I "upgraded" a architect friend of mine to Vista. She got XP and Vista with her 1GB RAM Core Duo Laptop. So I upgraded the RAM to 2GB and installed Vista SP1.

I just assumed Apps would work... Well most of the stuff she had was not Vista ready. AutoCad 9 and other stuff with Dongle copy protection _WILL NOT_ fly with Vista. No Chance. You have to buy new versions or better solution:

Go back to XP.

Conclusion: Proprietary vendors mostly suck.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: The Core of Windows
by riha on Tue 4th Nov 2008 20:19 UTC in reply to "RE: The Core of Windows"
riha Member since:

Actually, no need to criticize Vista when you in this case did it the wrong way.

As for all upgrades, for all different OS:es or applications, it is up to you to check the compatibility before doing the upgrade.

If something doesn´t work after upgrading and you find out that the app is not compatible, then you didn´t make your homework.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: The Core of Windows
by BluenoseJake on Wed 5th Nov 2008 13:10 UTC in reply to "RE: The Core of Windows"
BluenoseJake Member since:

Considering how old Autocad 9 is, that's not exactly unexpected. A little research would have saved you a lot of headaches.

Reply Score: 2

Can't wait for build 6809 then!
by mmu_man on Mon 3rd Nov 2008 22:39 UTC
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or 68000...
Is it just me or half of the articles are about windows 7 ? :p

Reply Score: 2

OS Archaeology
by joshv on Tue 4th Nov 2008 13:12 UTC
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It struck me, listening to Russinovich, the degree to which the kernel term had to resort to what is effectively OS archaeology - uncovering and documenting the structures that are present, rather taking a top down design approach. To create things like MinWin, the kernel team has had to do a deep dependency analysis, revealing a massive hairball of dependencies that don't easily decompose into neatly separable layers, and then nudge system calls around to retroactively impose structure. The Windows kernel does not appear to be an onion, it's more like an omelet.

Perhaps this is just something that happens when a project gets this complex, but one wonders if perhaps things got a little out of hand in Redmond. There appears to have been no overarching design process in the kernel, at least in the last decade. Hopefully they will do a little better job in the future.

Reply Score: 2

RE: OS Archaeology
by Nelson on Tue 4th Nov 2008 13:25 UTC in reply to "OS Archaeology"
Nelson Member since:

I got that impression too, however someone earlier pointed out that MinWin is actually a componentization of the higher level subsystems in Windows.

Either way, you make a very good point.

Reply Score: 2

RE: OS Archaeology
by PlatformAgnostic on Tue 4th Nov 2008 22:27 UTC in reply to "OS Archaeology"
PlatformAgnostic Member since:

MinWin isn't about the kernel (i.e. what runs in ring0) at all. It's mostly about ring3 components that have had lots of contributors and development by a large and diverse set of people (a number of different teams within Microsoft).

Few/no actual syscalls are affected by this.

Reply Score: 2