Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 26th Nov 2008 22:45 UTC, submitted by pablo_marx
OSNews, Generic OSes Linux distributions come and go by the dozens almost every day, and most of them live and die an unknown, irrelevant life, mostly because no, changing three icons and adding the suffix '-nix' to any random word doesn't make it different from Ubuntu. Anyway, sometimes, a new distribution is started that brings something new to the table. One such "distribution" is Glendix, which aims to combine the Linux kernel with the userpsace tools from Plan 9. Distribution is probably not the right term for this project.
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Pointless?
by diegocg on Wed 26th Nov 2008 22:54 UTC
diegocg
Member since:
2005-07-08

The truth is, many people has been working into bringing Plan9 ideas to Linux. There's 9P protocol support, FUSE can be used to implement userspace filesystems and there has been a lot of work into making possible per-user FS namespaces. Sure, it's not so "pure" as Plan9, but the features are there.

IOW: it may not be worth to release a "Plan 9 Linux distro" - just work with the regular Linux distros to implement and use Plan9 features.

Reply Score: 7

RE: Pointless?
by modmans2ndcoming on Wed 26th Nov 2008 23:13 UTC in reply to "Pointless?"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

consider this the proving grounds for such tools on Linux.

Reply Score: 8

Nice name choice
by cypress on Wed 26th Nov 2008 22:56 UTC
cypress
Member since:
2005-07-11

"Plan 9 from Outer Space" was a movie made by Edward D. Wood, Jr. "Glen or Glenda" is another movie by the same director. Thus - Glendix. ;)

Reply Score: 6

RE: Nice name choice
by sbergman27 on Wed 26th Nov 2008 23:01 UTC in reply to "Nice name choice"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Glenda, the bunny, is the Plan 9 mascot. Like Tux the penguin is for Linux:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenda,_the_Plan_9_Bunny

And Glenda's supercomputing cluster at IBM:

http://tinyurl.com/2bz6mf

Edited 2008-11-26 23:10 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Nice name choice
by grfgguvf on Thu 27th Nov 2008 02:20 UTC in reply to "RE: Nice name choice"
grfgguvf Member since:
2006-09-25

And Glenda's supercomputing cluster at IBM:

http://tinyurl.com/2bz6mf


That looks photoshopped. I can tell from the pixels, having seen quite a few in my time.

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: Nice name choice
by sbergman27 on Thu 27th Nov 2008 02:47 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Nice name choice"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

That looks photoshopped.

Possibly. But the port is real. More information on the port to BlueGene/L hardware is here:

http://tinyurl.com/5d83r3

Edited 2008-11-27 03:04 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Nice name choice
by heron on Thu 27th Nov 2008 05:38 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Nice name choice"
heron Member since:
2005-08-07

Ummm... No, not photoshopped. Plan 9 on BlueGene was reported on Slashdot a while ago:

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/19/1215253

Plan 9 isn't some fly-by-night OS. It was written at Bell Labs as the experimental successor to UNIX. A number of features incorporated into UNIX have come from it /proc, devfs, and the Unicode to name a few.

Obligatory wikipedia mention:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs

The authors are the same guys who originally took part in writing UNIX. It goes without saying that they know what they're doing.

It doesn't have to be Linux to run on a supercomputing cluster. ;)

GC

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Nice name choice
by grfgguvf on Thu 27th Nov 2008 08:47 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Nice name choice"
grfgguvf Member since:
2006-09-25

Ummm... No, not photoshopped.

It isn't? Certainly does look shopped.

Plan 9 on BlueGene was reported on Slashdot a while ago:

And as we know everything posted Slashdot is truth!

Plan 9 isn't some fly-by-night OS. It was written at Bell Labs as the experimental successor to UNIX. A number of features incorporated into UNIX have come from it /proc, devfs, and the Unicode to name a few. Obligatory wikipedia mention


The authors are the same guys who originally took part in writing UNIX. It goes without saying that they know what they're doing.

It doesn't have to be Linux to run on a supercomputing cluster. ;)

Yeah... I have tried Plan 9 a few years ago. They know what they are doing in system design/research, but their aim was not producing a realworld OS. Plan 9 crashes all the time (it's also slow/not optimized and has nonexistent hardware support, but these don't matter on a cluster).

As far as I know there is a Plan 9 cluster run by Ron Minnich and Andrej Mirtchowski at a national laboratory (and it has no bunnies stitched to the racks...), but none at IBM.

GG

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Nice name choice
by heron on Thu 27th Nov 2008 14:44 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Nice name choice"
heron Member since:
2005-08-07

What exactly were you running it on? I've never had a problem with Plan 9 crashing at all.

Besides... just because it crashes on your x86 doesn't mean it won't run smoothly elsewhere.

And, no, I didn't say everything that is posted on slashdot is the truth, but the story does seem credible. If you search "Plan 9"+BlueGene on google you'll see that there has been work at IBM on this.

So... you're basing your disbelief on some pixels you think you see? Could you be specific beyond a "feeling" on what is leading you to believe that it is photoshopped? Or is it simply that you don't believe that anything but Linux could do this?

GC

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Nice name choice
by sbergman27 on Thu 27th Nov 2008 15:02 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Nice name choice"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Or is it simply that you don't believe that anything but Linux could do this?

Architecturally, Plan 9 is ideal for this use. Built from the ground up as a distributed system, the concept of "processor server" is basic to it (as are display servers, storage servers, print servers, camera servers, etc.), all communicating happily via 9P. As to how well optimized it, and its compiler is for this use, I don't know. According to the Glendix paper, KenCC, written in only 1/17th as many lines of code as gcc, can do everything that gcc can. One could be forgiven for having a few doubts about that, though.

Edited 2008-11-27 15:03 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Nice name choice
by heron on Thu 27th Nov 2008 15:16 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Nice name choice"
heron Member since:
2005-08-07

Have you ever seen GCC's source code? I can tell you from experience that I have no problems believing that a smaller, better written compiler is possible. There's a decent amount of bloat there.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Nice name choice
by shaunm on Thu 27th Nov 2008 06:11 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Nice name choice"
shaunm Member since:
2005-10-24

That looks photoshopped. I can tell from the pixels, having seen quite a few in my time.


Yeah, I've seen quite a few pixels in my time too. Oh hot damn, there's another one.

</smartass>

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Nice name choice
by StephenBeDoper on Thu 27th Nov 2008 18:45 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Nice name choice"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

"That reminds me of someone. You know who I mean... that person, the one who's always standing and walking."

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Nice name choice
by sbergman27 on Thu 27th Nov 2008 19:03 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Nice name choice"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

If you look really carefully, under a magnifying glass, you can see that each pixel has an Adobe logo in the bottom right corner.

BTW, I did some research, and the photo was, indeed, photoshopped by "Andrey":

http://graverobbers.blogspot.com/2007/04/more-plan-9-on-blue-gene.h...

Not as a hoax, but as an upfront little joke.

Plan 9 on BG/L is real. And I would be very interested in information regarding how useful it is in that capacity.

Edited 2008-11-27 19:14 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Nice name choice
by StephenBeDoper on Thu 27th Nov 2008 19:46 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Nice name choice"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

If you look really carefully, under a magnifying glass, you can see that each pixel has an Adobe logo in the bottom right corner.


Yes, and even just at a casual glance, the logos appear way too uniform to be anything other than a copy-paste job.

It was the wording of the original "This looks photoshopped because of the pixels" post that I found amusing, not the notion itself.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Nice name choice
by areimann on Thu 27th Nov 2008 04:47 UTC in reply to "Nice name choice"
areimann Member since:
2006-06-12

Why you know this is beyond me. ;)

Reply Score: 1

Comment by moleskine
by moleskine on Thu 27th Nov 2008 00:04 UTC
moleskine
Member since:
2005-11-05

Linux reviews come and go by the dozens almost every day, and most of them live and die an unknown, irrelevant life, mostly because no, changing three words and adding the prefix "new and improved" to any old name doesn't make today's review different from the last review.

That said, welcome to Glendix! The more the merrier, the website looks lovely and besides, I like the mascot.

Edited 2008-11-27 00:06 UTC

Reply Score: 4

Distribution
by Tias on Thu 27th Nov 2008 00:24 UTC
Tias
Member since:
2008-04-05

Distribution is still spot on.

Reply Score: 2

Plan9 brought us
by mmu_man on Thu 27th Nov 2008 01:32 UTC
mmu_man
Member since:
2006-09-30

the power and glory of UTF-8, and BeOS brought it to the desktop.
Hallowed is Plan9!

Reply Score: 4

Not 9wm, please
by twm_bucket on Thu 27th Nov 2008 02:20 UTC
twm_bucket
Member since:
2008-10-09

As as the long default WM isn't 9wm; it has to be the most cumbersome WM ever devised. Ugly. Your cursor is taken over until you manually draw a new window on the screen. No. Just no.

Reply Score: 2

Bringing the FUD of Plan9 to Linux?
by sbergman27 on Thu 27th Nov 2008 04:04 UTC
sbergman27
Member since:
2005-07-24

Section 2.1 of the comprehensive project report strains credibility a bit:

http://glendix.org/report.pdf

I'm not a huge fan of GNU, and always like to see alternatives. But I think I'd like to see some proof of the assertions made.

Reply Score: 3

anantn Member since:
2008-11-27

I would retract that rather overzealous statement if I could! However, the fact remains that GCC *is* rather bloated, even if the Plan 9 C compilers don't offer all the features GCC does.

Reply Score: 0

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

I would retract that rather overzealous statement if I could!

A drop in the bucket compared to the overzealous statements I've heard from GNU software fans. ;-)

Anyway, since I have a Plan9 knowledgeable person handy, and haven't been able to find it anywhere else, may I ask what are the current limitations of Fossil? Max file size? Max volume size? 9P gets all the press, but it's really just a wire protocol, like NFS, and not really a filesystem. (Not to belittle 9P. In an OS where *everything* is truly a file, the filesystem wire protocol takes on a whole new significance.)

Also, any comments on where Plan9 or Plan9 ideas have proved useful in the real world. UTF-8... (and powering the bell-labs.com site), of course. Other stuff?

Edited 2008-11-27 19:29 UTC

Reply Score: 1

abraxas Member since:
2005-07-07

Anyway, since I have a Plan9 knowledgeable person handy, and haven't been able to find it anywhere else, may I ask what are the current limitations of Fossil? Max file size? Max volume size? 9P gets all the press, but it's really just a wire protocol, like NFS, and not really a filesystem. (Not to belittle 9P. In an OS where *everything* is truly a file, the filesystem wire protocol takes on a whole new significance.)


To be honest I have not found much information about the max file size or the max volume size of Fossil/Venti (Venti is the actual storage server). I did however find a paper referencing Fossil/Venti's abilitiy to hold at least an exabyte of data. I would assume Plan9 has a large storage capacity but the information is slim.

Reply Score: 2

v Userspace, distribution, ain't that...
by Kochise on Thu 27th Nov 2008 07:24 UTC
Glenda
by mmu_man on Thu 27th Nov 2008 07:47 UTC
mmu_man
Member since:
2006-09-30

Btw, is it me or the Raving Rabbits look suspiciously Glenda like ?

Reply Score: 3

AbuHassan
Member since:
2008-08-26

.....both without the GNU cruft.

AnubisOS and now Glendix, who cares about the state of the global economy? Exciting times are ahead! ;)

http://anubis-os.org http://arix.sf.net

Reply Score: 2

nice one
by l3v1 on Thu 27th Nov 2008 08:55 UTC
l3v1
Member since:
2005-07-06

doesn't make it different from Ubuntu


Lines like this always remind me of an idiotic remark someone made about Tron after Matrix came out, i.e. that it was the Matrix of the eighties. I don't really care what people compare to Ubuntu or what they compare Ubuntu with, I just never got convinced that Ubuntu is the best there is, thus stating something isn't far from Ubuntu won't place either it below or above it.

Reply Score: 5

RE: nice one
by google_ninja on Thu 27th Nov 2008 13:43 UTC in reply to "nice one"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

he wasn't talking about that, he was talking about the eight billion Ubuntu "derivative" distributions.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: nice one
by de_wizze on Thu 27th Nov 2008 15:23 UTC in reply to "RE: nice one"
de_wizze Member since:
2005-10-31

Not to mention Debian derivatives?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: nice one
by Tuishimi on Fri 28th Nov 2008 11:10 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: nice one"
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

I never hear Debian mentioned anymore. ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: nice one
by sbergman27 on Fri 28th Nov 2008 11:16 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: nice one"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

I never hear Debian mentioned anymore. ;)

Debian is implicit in any mention of the Ubuntu family. In my opinion, Debian's strength and destiny lies with providing a solid foundation for derivative distros. I view Debian Stable as a sort of reference implementation to keep them on track.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: nice one
by Tuishimi on Fri 28th Nov 2008 17:34 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: nice one"
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

Implicit to your or me, but Ubuntu is pulling in all kinds of people who don't know anything about Linux, or the history of Ubuntu.

I ran Slack and Debian before Ubuntu was born... both were, and still ARE excellent distributions... but I understand that the success of marketing Ubuntu is also (in a way) success for linux in general.

I know Debian still lives and breaths, I just feel like it is never mentioned anymore... and that makes me sad because it is an excellent package.

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: nice one
by sbergman27 on Fri 28th Nov 2008 19:10 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: nice one"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

I know Debian still lives and breaths, I just feel like it is never mentioned anymore... and that makes me sad because...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Awww.ubuntu.com+debi...

Edited 2008-11-28 19:12 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: nice one
by Tuishimi on Fri 28th Nov 2008 19:56 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: nice one"
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

O.K. You win. Debian is everywhere and is mentioned frequently. There are a lot of Debian articles on OSNews and slashdot and everywhere else too. In fact, now that you mention it, I just turned around and saw the debian symbol in the stucco on my wall.

Reply Score: 2

LoC
by pure on Thu 27th Nov 2008 13:41 UTC
pure
Member since:
2007-12-19

So based on that the GNU has a lot of more lines they should use the plan 9 tools instead?

Reply Score: 1

Plan 9 on BG/L is real
by abraxas on Thu 27th Nov 2008 16:13 UTC
abraxas
Member since:
2005-07-07

Anyone who doesn't believe that IBM really has a BG/L Plan 9 Cluster is clearly uninformed. There are several papers and presentations online that describe the machine specifices and the hurdles encountered when building the machine. They also answer the question "Why not Linux?". The short answer is that Linux has a much longer, slower I/O path than Plan 9.

Here's the original OSNews article:

http://osnews.com/comments/18102

Edited 2008-11-27 16:22 UTC

Reply Score: 3