Linked by weildish on Sat 27th Dec 2008 22:58 UTC
Linux Sick of Apple and Microsoft flaunting themselves about constantly with their "I'm a Mac/I'm a PC" advertisements? Had a vision for the first Linux commercial you've been wanting to put into place? The Linux Foundation is calling you. Not literally, of course. Beginning January 26th, 2009, the Foundation will be accepting 60-second video offerings from budding directors worldwide to begin their own "I'm Linux" advertising campaign. The winner takes all with "a flight to Narita in Japan from the airport closest to your home plus three nights at a hotel in order for the winner to attend the Linux Foundation Japan's symposium in October next year." Start those rusty creative gears turning-- it's certain that plenty will enter, and only one will win.
Order by: Score:
neozeed
Member since:
2006-03-03

With an A&T manual in hand… Sigh, once more again it’s lead, never follow from the Linux crowd.

They should try to do their own thing.

Perhaps go with RMS’s plant sex thing, I’m sure that’ll win the FSF some fans.

Reply Score: 4

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Rather a mediocre troll, neozeed. 3 out of 10, I'll give it.

I've seen a suggestion or two recommending Stephen Fry for this. I had my doubts. But while this video is a bit FSF-Centric, I could see Stephen playing the role of Linux pretty well:

http://www.gnu.org/fry/#

Reply Score: 2

segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

With an A&T manual in hand… Sigh, once more again it’s lead, never follow from the Linux crowd.

So what exactly are Microsoft doing?

Reply Score: 1

neozeed Member since:
2006-03-03

Why they have the Apple playbook in hand, naturally. They alreaddy bought & absorbed a *nix but true to MS fashion they are doing their best to pretend that SFU/SUA never existed.

I almost bet they saked the entire team to let the product languish...

Reply Score: 0

KAMiKAZOW Member since:
2005-07-06

"Services for Unix" is bundled with Windows Server since 2003R2.

Reply Score: 2

neozeed Member since:
2006-03-03

yes but have you seen ONE update to it?

I've got the same SUA on vista since shipping.

Reply Score: 1

google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

SFU is in Vista business/ultimate, windows 2k8 ultimate, and the beta of seven ultimate

Reply Score: 2

neozeed Member since:
2006-03-03

Yes I'm well aware of SFU going to SUA, and I have been running it on Vista since it shipped.

But have you ever seen an update for it?

Vista gets updates like dammed near once a week, and I haven't seen a single update for SUA since vista shipped.

It really does feel like the team has been disolved. It feels like once more again MS runs out gets a workable product, makes it somewhat good, then loses interest and abandons the whole thing... Much like Cobol, Fortran, Pascal etc etc....

Reply Score: 1

unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13

MS was originally a Unix company. They had Xenix before they even licensed QDOS.

Reply Score: 3

neozeed Member since:
2006-03-03

And...?

Linux has always been a copy of something out there. What original ‘anything’ have they ever brought to the table?

They cannot even promote themselves in an original manner.

Besides it’ll turn into yet another xyz destroy is better then zzy yet both are based on abc. Zzz.

Reply Score: 1

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Linux has always been a copy of something out there. What original ‘anything’ have they ever brought to the table?

It is interesting, the way you try to direct the dialog. Without agreeing with your implication that Linux (and FOSS, in general) does not sometimes implement original ideas, as does sometimes, Microsoft, Apple, and other players... I ask you in what way is implementing good ideas which originated elsewhere a bad thing? I fear that you are just copying Microsoft's "Innovation Mania" concept. Could you not have come up with a more original attack upon Linux and FOSS?

Reply Score: 3

neozeed Member since:
2006-03-03

It is interesting, the way you try to direct the dialog. Without agreeing with your implication that Linux (and FOSS, in general) does not sometimes implement original ideas, as does sometimes, Microsoft, Apple, and other players... I ask you in what way is implementing good ideas which originated elsewhere a bad thing? I fear that you are just copying Microsoft's "Innovation Mania" concept. Could you not have come up with a more original attack upon Linux and FOSS?


Well then I could add copying them... poorly but I guess you could fire back the same part about say CP/M vs MS-DOS... VMS to NT.. well maybe more like RSX…

I think the main thing that separates them is support. I've had 0 luck with the pimply teenage crowd with Oracle, then Microsoft...

And then there is the whole cost structure associated with the teenage photo copier crowd, but of course it's Redhat, and the "solution" is to use... yet another distro.

At least MS's os offerings are not, and never will be as fragmented as the linux thing. It's a shame that Linus didn't bundle some kind of install & userland back in the day letting SLS fit the bill back then....

I think that is the worst of it, is that I've been using linux since the sls days (remember hex editing the boot floppy to use the hard disk as root????) and it still feels the same. It's just as counter intuitive then as it is now. Unlike Solaris/HPUX/AIX/.. hell even Xenix the userland has never 'fit' linux, but rather been tacked on... But yes I know it's because the GNU tools arose in a vacuum with no kernel to fulfill it's environment.

It would have been nice had the 'lsb' thing worked, or if even Linus would say just freaking provide *SOME* consistent way of doing things...

But I know I'm dreaming.

I guess this is why HURD failed and why the photocopier worked. While the FSF was trying to innovate, they never shipped anything workable. Sure they made the most portable assembler, linker & c compiler ever but even cloning the v7 kernel seemed ‘beneath’ them and out of reach for the users….

Kind of funny then, if anything it shows the triumph of the photocopier and the failure of the FSF to be… unique.

By the way the sweaty nerd with the photocopier can be found here:
http://www.amazon.com/Lions-Commentary-Unix-John/dp/1573980137

Reply Score: 2

mabhatter Member since:
2005-07-17

one of the early "I'm a PC" commercials had a guy near the end with "I'm a PC and I have a beard!" That was a shot right at Linux/OSS, I'm surprised it got missed by the Microsoft bashing press.

Microsoft already beat them to it... sorry.

Reply Score: 2

neozeed Member since:
2006-03-03

That's what I get for not having TV.

Oh well now it has come full circle.

I wonder how many of these will feature 'bearded' penguins?

Reply Score: 1

v Not news anymore
by cyclops on Sun 28th Dec 2008 05:50 UTC
RE: Not news anymore
by sbergman27 on Sun 28th Dec 2008 06:05 UTC in reply to "Not news anymore"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Increasingly I get my news from google(by clicking the news button), which is simply better than getting the news from a site like this,

Yes, I know you have been. I've been keeping an eye on you with:

| user:cyclops "What's he been looking at?" |

Handy site, Google. :-)

Edited 2008-12-28 06:06 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE: Not news anymore
by Morgan on Sun 28th Dec 2008 14:33 UTC in reply to "Not news anymore"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

His mom must have made that penguin costume.


My first thought when this headline came up in my RSS was "Ok so we're going to have hundreds of nerds in penguin costumes from all over the world". First video? Guy in a penguin suit. Heh.

Reply Score: 5

I'm Linux ads
by Gone fishing on Sun 28th Dec 2008 07:01 UTC
Gone fishing
Member since:
2006-02-22
Another good Linux ad
by forever4now on Sun 28th Dec 2008 10:58 UTC in reply to "I'm Linux ads"
forever4now Member since:
2008-12-28

Here is another good Linux ad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fhp3PTeH2kQ&feature=related

Edited 2008-12-28 11:08 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: I'm Linux ads
by siride on Sun 28th Dec 2008 19:52 UTC in reply to "I'm Linux ads"
siride Member since:
2006-01-02

Those were cringe-worthy. The Linux chick annoyed the shit out of me.

Reply Score: 4

Yeah Right
by ManishChaks on Sun 28th Dec 2008 11:22 UTC
ManishChaks
Member since:
2007-04-24

A campaign which does "I'm Linux" will also have to address "Which Linux" as well.

Otherwise it would simply be a campaign about a kernel.. and try explaining that to someone's mom.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Yeah Right
by Morgan on Sun 28th Dec 2008 14:36 UTC in reply to "Yeah Right"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Otherwise it would simply be a campaign about a kernel.. and try explaining that to someone's mom.



You're right of course, but these days the only people who really care about separating the kernel from the userspace tools in conversation are kernel hackers and GNU founders. The rest of us generally think of our favorite distro when someone says "Linux".

Reply Score: 7

RE[2]: Yeah Right
by ManishChaks on Sun 28th Dec 2008 15:24 UTC in reply to "RE: Yeah Right"
ManishChaks Member since:
2007-04-24

"I'm Ubuntu" campaign makes more sense

(replace Ubuntu with your fav distro )

Reply Score: 1

I suggest this one
by usr0 on Sun 28th Dec 2008 12:36 UTC
usr0
Member since:
2006-10-27
F*ck Linux
by shevegen on Sun 28th Dec 2008 16:10 UTC
shevegen
Member since:
2008-04-04

I am using Linux since 2004.

In general I am fine with many things. I use what I like and discard the rest. There are also many great examples. For example I think the KDE team does a tremendous job altogether.

However, in other areas, I really want to scream loudly the "f*ck linux". And my biggest complaints are:

1- They dont listen to users. If experienced users complain about something, then maybe they should listen. And if they dont, I encourage everyone to flame them into oblivion.

2- See point 1. It really is important.

3- See point 1 again, for the last time. The whole LSB builds upon the FHS, which means that it will not allow flexibility. No AppDir approach. The curse of libtool for many years to come (I must say that the libtool developers are very very friendly and helpful, so be nice to them. Even if libtool sucks, the authors and helping people are good guys. Some other arrogant developers should reconsider their stance, or leave Linux - which would make me happier, since it is impossible to work with unfriendly developers.)

4- Please, no more propaganda from ANY side. If an application is good, it will spread. I can assure every stupid propaganda move that if Linux solutions ARE GOOD, that they WILL SUCCEED. Maybe ask WHY Linux is not installed everywhere yet. I tell you how to make this happen - LISTEN TO PEOPLE. Especially those that are using Linux solutions since a long time (but also newbies, because they bring fresh ideas and fresh visions into the pool).
Take RMS. I agree with him and the FSF in principle. But I totally disagree about preaching to INFORMED people. I already made my opinion after evaluating things for long. I do not want to be preached to anymore.

If there are valid arguments, I am fine with them. But I dont buy nor do I accept any propganda, be it from Microsoft or the FSF.

F*ck Propaganda.

PS: Correcting errors is fine. There is a separation between trolling/spreading propaganda, and correcting errors. I often have the impression that people rather want to defend an "ideal" vision which SIMPLY IS NOT CORRECT.

As I wrote above, if you want to convince people, convince them with the better solution. Do not go to great lengths to copy things, instead, make better things AND LISTEN to complaints.

Reply Score: 5

RE: F*ck Linux
by DRIQ on Sun 28th Dec 2008 18:29 UTC in reply to "F*ck Linux"
DRIQ Member since:
2008-04-28

Oh dear

I am all ears.

I can feel your frustration, but do not understand what exactly that you want. Can you be more specific? The community is working hard to provide solutions 24/7.

Reply Score: 2

RE: F*ck Linux
by factotum218 on Sun 28th Dec 2008 21:09 UTC in reply to "F*ck Linux"
factotum218 Member since:
2007-03-20

Absolutely.

Reply Score: 0

RE: F*ck Linux
by Moulinneuf on Sun 28th Dec 2008 21:59 UTC in reply to "F*ck Linux"
Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

Nice idea for an ads ...

Then at the ends someone tap him on the shoulder and say "I was right here no needs to yell" ...

Reply Score: 2

RE: F*ck Linux
by WorknMan on Mon 29th Dec 2008 03:20 UTC in reply to "F*ck Linux"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

4- Please, no more propaganda from ANY side. If an application is good, it will spread. I can assure every stupid propaganda move that if Linux solutions ARE GOOD, that they WILL SUCCEED. Maybe ask WHY Linux is not installed everywhere yet. I tell you how to make this happen - LISTEN TO PEOPLE. Especially those that are using Linux solutions since a long time (but also newbies, because they bring fresh ideas and fresh visions into the pool).
Take RMS. I agree with him and the FSF in principle. But I totally disagree about preaching to INFORMED people. I already made my opinion after evaluating things for long. I do not want to be preached to anymore.


Yeah, and if you want to start listening to people who aren't using Linux yet and are interested in finding out what they want, I'll give you your first mission:

If I download a package (say for the latest version of VLC, or whatever), I should be able to install it on any distro I'm running. The whole 'different packages for different distros' thing is retarded and needs to go away.

I don't care what package manager I'm using and I'll leave the details of how it all works underneath to the geeks who program the stuff, but you guys REALLY need to make that sh*t work. If you don't, you can run all the ads you want, but it's not going to do you a damn bit of good.

If you can't convert Windows 'power users' like myself, you're dead in the water, because I'm the 'guru' that all my friends and family call when they have computer problems, and most of them will run whatever I tell them to. So in a nutshell, if I switch, then they switch. If I don't, then they don't either.

Of course, you guys don't have to listen to me and can continue to do things ass backwards if you want, but your marketshare ain't gonna grow much that way.

Edited 2008-12-29 03:22 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: F*ck Linux
by sbergman27 on Mon 29th Dec 2008 03:36 UTC in reply to "RE: F*ck Linux"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

If you can't convert Windows 'power users' like myself, you're dead in the water,

Question to Linux fans: Do we want to convert "Windows 'power users' like WorknMan? What exactly *are* 'power users', anyway? Am I a Linux 'power user'? Any comments from MacOS or Haiku 'power users'?

Seems to me that pleasing regular folks might yield more benefits than going after 'power users' of another OS who would have so very much to unlearn. (Though 'power user' seems, to me, to be pretty much a Windows exclusive term. A part of the local pecking order of that particular domain.)

WorknMan, 'power user', you might be better off sticking with what you know.

Edited 2008-12-29 03:48 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: F*ck Linux
by WorknMan on Mon 29th Dec 2008 05:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: F*ck Linux"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

x fans: Do we want to convert "Windows 'power users' like WorknMan? What exactly *are* 'power users', anyway? Am I a Linux 'power user'?


Please don't be offended by my use of 'power user'. I'm just using it in this context for lack of a better term. I am by no means a computer expert, but I know a hell of a lot more than your average computer-using soccer mom. I am proficient in many apps. The last time I did a clean install of XP on my system, I counted the number of apps I installed, and it was something like 46. And for many of these apps, if you look on their forums (for those that have them), there are always people clamoring for a Linux or Mac version (or people trying to get it up and running with Wine), which leads me to believe that the grass isn't really greener on the other side. Case in point:

http://www.newsleecher.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13822

So you can probably understand why I'm not exactly gung ho about the prospects of switching to another platform, especially when some of the more zealous among the anti-MS crowd try to make me think that just because I'm not using their OS of choice, I'm either going to hell or simply not capable of making an intelligent choice about the OS that I use.

Seems to me that pleasing regular folks might yield more benefits than going after 'power users' of another OS who would have so very much to unlearn.


Most of the 'regular folks' you're talking about are the ones that I (and others like me) provide support for. Some of these people don't even know they're using Windows. I just set it all up and tell them where the web browser and email icons are, and off they go. Some of them of more literate than that, but they still depend on me for a lot of things.

Of course, you can set up Linux for the average noob as I described above, but who's going to do that? Certainly not me. You guys would have to go door-to-door like a bunch of Jehovah's Witnesses ;) Because even if you manage to put together some ads that don't suck, the majority of 'regular folks' won't even see them, unless you put together enough money to get them aired nationally. Even assuming that happens and my friends and family are interested, they're still going to come and ask me whether they should try it.

So in a nutshell, I've got you by the balls ;) Of course, you are able to convince some like me to switch by using propaganda tactics (eg - Bill Gates is a seal-clubbing bastard), but that only gets you the low-hanging fruit. Without others like me, your only other option is probably to try to sneak in the back door and get Linux on the desktop in the corporate world, but that presents its own set of challenges and is beyond the scope of this thread.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: F*ck Linux
by sbergman27 on Mon 29th Dec 2008 05:40 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: F*ck Linux"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

So in a nutshell, I've got you by the balls ;)
...
...but that only gets you the low-hanging fruit.
...
your only other option is probably to try to sneak in the back door...

Hey. Are you arguing with me or cruising me? ;-)

Edited 2008-12-29 05:41 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: F*ck Linux
by Gone fishing on Mon 29th Dec 2008 07:34 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: F*ck Linux"
Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

I would have voted Worknman's post up but I can’t as I've posted but most of his points are right on the mark. For a long time Linux was great for the computer illiterate and great for programming gurus but not for the folk in the middle - people like Worknman, me and the IT dep at the school - we would could probably all be described as Windows power users.

I think that is now changing - for me Ubuntu has stuck, I use it more than Windows and my kids and the next-door neighbours use Mint. Good graphical set-up tools are import to new Linux users (and have improved greatly) although as they get familiar, many will begin to use command line tools just because it quicker. The culture of the Linux community has changed, I rarely see “power of the command line” and “read the f****** manual” comments on help forums and so I can see more “Windows Power uses” giving Linux a try. An obvious advantage for such users (including myself) is the greatly reduced amount of free support I’m giving folk - you put on Linux and it “just works” you won’t have to go round every week to remove viruses and general malware.

I disagree with Worknman about installing Linux programs I don’t think its reasonable or necessary to ask all distro’s to use the same package management and as long as the repositories are up to date why is it needed? Using synaptic isn’t exactly difficult and has obvious advantages over windows when it comes to keeping the system fully patched. I can see that it would be nice if you could go to an applications website click a link and add the repository if its not present – maybe this will happen – I can also see that some graphical tools to build and install apps from source code might be nice, but generally I think this is an over rated problem.

There is still a problem with third party applications many Open source apps are great, but Open Office is not up to the standard of MS Office and many users simply need a Windows app, again this is less of a problem than it used to be Wine has improved crossover often works well – for some virtualisation looks a good option and I can see this becoming an even more viable option as react OS matures.

In conclusion – the Windows power user is important.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: F*ck Linux
by lemur2 on Mon 29th Dec 2008 09:21 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: F*ck Linux"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Good graphical set-up tools are import to new Linux users (and have improved greatly) although as they get familiar, many will begin to use command line tools just because it quicker.


If you actually run Linux, perhaps I can give an example of how help, written out on users forums such as this one, is actually better to use the command line that the graphical set up tools, no matter how good the latter are.

If I have to explain to you how to do something, and that explanation involves the use of a graphical set up tool, then it will necessarily take me a lot of trouble, some very awkward explanations, and I would need to include screen-shots more often than not.

OTOH, I could ask you to open up the terminal program alongside your browser as you read this post. Then select the following line of text, and with that text still selected in the browser window, middle-click anywhere in the terminal window:

echo "Command-line-based instructions are easier."

In actual fact, when communicated via the medium of an on-line forum such as this one, instructions are easier to compose for using the command line, quicker and more accurate to convey, and far easier for the recipient of the instructions to perform.

Furthermore, even though it uses the command line, it is still in a sense "GUI" and it takes only two clicks of the mouse per step (each step being one line of command text), and requires no typing at all on the part of the new Linux user.

Edited 2008-12-29 09:29 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: F*ck Linux
by Gone fishing on Mon 29th Dec 2008 11:11 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: F*ck Linux"
Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

I don't disagree. On help forums its often much easier to say open a terminal and paste in

gksu gedit /etc/network/interfaces etc

then add ... for example

It also helps the user begin to learn their way round the command line.

However, these commands need to be learnt or you need to be told, they are not intuitive and a new user cannot be expected to discover them. Graphical tools make the OS more accessible for example the graphical network manager in Intrepid is very intuitive and any reasonably knowledgable Windows, Mac or BeOS user would nave no trouble setting it up without prior knowledge without Googling for iwconfig etc. Similarly Synaptic is more obvious than apt-get and easier to search for a new app etc.

I’m not saying that the command line is a bad thing, but that good graphical tools are a good thing. Both make the OS superior and increase the range of options for all users.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: F*ck Linux
by WorknMan on Mon 29th Dec 2008 16:58 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: F*ck Linux"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

I disagree with Worknman about installing Linux programs I don’t think its reasonable or necessary to ask all distro’s to use the same package management and as long as the repositories are up to date why is it needed?


Well, if you look at it that way, why do we need a standard for HTML? Why can't we have every platform and/or distro using an incompatable standard, as long as each web browser is kept up to date? Don't tell me that it's not the same thing, because it is the same.

Note that I am not suggesting that all distros use the same package manager, but only the same packages.

And I don't mind using the command-line to install them either, as long as I have some of the same options on Windows (eg, whether or not to creat a desktop icon, etc), and as long as I can download a package that says 'Linux' on it and know tha it will work on whatever distro I'm using, so long as the distro supports that particular version of the package standard.

Using synaptic isn’t exactly difficult and has obvious advantages over windows when it comes to keeping the system fully patched.


Yeah, it usually has about 8 million packages, except for the one I happen to be looking for at the time. "Oh, but if it's not there, then you just have to change the IP of your repository source..." No, No, NO!!!!!

I can see that it would be nice if you could go to an applications website click a link and add the repository if its not present


Yeah, that's what non-Linux users are saying... that NEEDS to happen. So all you evangilists out there... drop the lame f**king ad campaign and get to work on this IMMEDIATELY.

There is still a problem with third party applications many Open source apps are great, but Open Office is not up to the standard of MS Office


And this also underscores the problem that you're never going to get some of these apps in your distro's repository either.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: F*ck Linux
by sbergman27 on Mon 29th Dec 2008 17:13 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: F*ck Linux"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Yeah, that's what non-Linux users are saying... that NEEDS to happen. So all you evangilists out there... drop the lame f**king ad campaign and get to work on this IMMEDIATELY.

Since ordering others about is now, apparently, acceptable behavior, I'm assigning this task to you. Let us know when you have it done so we can critique it.

P.S. to Adam: Whatever you just did to the CSS on the "Post a new comment" page is hideous. Avocado Green and Harvest Gold... I feel like I'm in the kitchen appliances department of Sears in about 1974. ;-)

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: F*ck Linux
by WorknMan on Mon 29th Dec 2008 18:46 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: F*ck Linux"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

Since ordering others about is now, apparently, acceptable behavior, I'm assigning this task to you. Let us know when you have it done so we can critique it.


Well, look at it this way... since there has been an effort to start up a Linux ad campaign, there is obviously a (large?) group of people out there who are trying to get Windows users like me to make the switch. If they're willing to work to make that happen, I'm telling them what to do. But if they don't want to listen, that's fine. They can continue with their current efforts for all I care, which will end up being about as productive as pissing into the wind.

Seriously, if you desire Linux to have more marketshare, you might want to pay attention to what non-Linux users actually want, and not what you THINK they want. We're telling you what needs to be done, and the response is, "Well, do it yourself." I mean, how f**king stupid is that? Of COURSE I'm not going to do it, because I have no reason to do it. I'm not the one who thinks the world is going to end because everybody and their grandma is not using Linux.

The reason people are trying to start an ad campaign is because they obviously think Linux is ready for people like me, but I'm telling you it's not ready. You can argue all day long that I'm wrong, but again... it goes back to the pissing into the wind thing. And the fact that I'm not using Linux yet just goes to show that I'm right and your wrong. What could you possibly have to tell me that I haven't heard a thousand times before?

Edited 2008-12-29 18:51 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: F*ck Linux
by Laurence on Thu 1st Jan 2009 20:10 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: F*ck Linux"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

as long as I can download a package that says 'Linux' on it and know tha it will work on whatever distro I'm using,


That can't be done though as distro's, due to their very nature, can and often do vary significantly from each other.
For example, my current preferred distro is Arch because (amongst other things) I like the way it organises it's init scripts. I prefer the fact that it doesn't use the traditional linux method (half a dozen or so directories) but rather a clean config file that's easy to edit.

While this method works better for me, it also makes it incompatable with application installers which set up daemons that run on boot as said installers would expect there to be directories rather then config files.


The biggest problem Linux faces with these incompatabilites isn't a lack of a unified package manager (as you suggest is a problem) but rather that Linux is the kernel only.
So your argument is a bit like saying every .EXE installer for windows should be labelled up as "NT" (when you know full well that some XP applications wont run on 2000, Vista or NT4 despite them all running variations of the same kernel.
Plus even when applications for windows do specify "windows XP" (for example) they sometimes only work on a version > SP n - so it's not even as if your literal example is entirely accurate.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: F*ck Linux
by tweakedenigma on Mon 29th Dec 2008 16:11 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: F*ck Linux"
tweakedenigma Member since:
2006-12-27

Personally I'm a little sick of this whole if I like this OS then I can't like the other BS everyone is always tossing around.

I'm a long time Linux user, and I run the local LUG. I love Linux and I think its a great OS with a lot of really good tools.

I'm an MCSE and I think Windows has some really great tools for somethings an not for others. I love active directory and think its one of the better LDAP implementations.

I have a couple of Macs in my house and I can honestly say they are the best at bringing their stuff together seamlessly. Granted its because they make everything themselves but just the way the Apple TV, Macs and ipods work so well together in my house it still astounds me.

In reality though out side of specific uses a normal user who checks their email, surfs the web, needs office products, just all around general computing all 3 platforms will do the job with ease.

We all know the places that each OS is better then the other, but lest cut the BS, more options is better its that simple.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: F*ck Linux
by j-kidd on Tue 30th Dec 2008 13:32 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: F*ck Linux"
j-kidd Member since:
2005-07-06

Just because you really enjoy being a Windows power user cum family tech support guy, doesn't mean that there isn't any power user cum family tech support guy who happens to use Linux.

The purpose of the ads is, of course, to get those in the former group who are more capable of making an intelligent choice about the OS to join the later group ;)

Reply Score: 1

Any advertising is good for Linux
by cmost on Sun 28th Dec 2008 16:11 UTC
cmost
Member since:
2006-07-16

Hey, I'm all for any sort of ad campaign for Linux. Too often people hear about Linux through word of mouth; which isn't necessarily a bad thing unless that mouth is attached to a zealot. This leaves a bad taste in anyone's mouth as the Linux community comes off as fanatical. (Aren't we though?!?) Also, all too often people curious about Linux have a knowledgeable friend install it for them but then they can't figure out how to get help when issues arise. Many of these folks invariably return to Windows. Most of the time when I strike up a conversation with someone whose curious about my Linux notebook they've never heard of it, or if they had, they think it's a new fangled thing that's difficult to use and not ready for mainstream. My point is that there's a lot of information out there about Linux but because of the embarrassment of choices our community has, the information is disorganized and overwhelming. So, however, trite these new commercials may be at least there will be some word about Linux getting out to the masses. For too long has the public been held hostage by Microsoft and their ilk. :-)

Reply Score: 1

Comment by BSDfan
by BSDfan on Sun 28th Dec 2008 16:50 UTC
BSDfan
Member since:
2007-03-14

Perhaps I'm blind.. but.. did they mention what major TV networks will be airing these commercials? :|

Reply Score: 2

Waste of Time and Money
by KAMiKAZOW on Sun 28th Dec 2008 18:48 UTC
KAMiKAZOW
Member since:
2005-07-06

The best ads for Linux are:
1.) Word of mouth
2.) The quality of Windows Vista
3.) The quality of Linux apps
4.) MS wants to convert PC gamers into Xbox gamers

The high-priced NYT newspaper ad did not convert a significant amount of users to Firefox. Lots of money was spent that would have done more good if invested into development time.

As you can see from my list, I think that MS itself helps Linux a lot -- of course not on purpose. Many people find Vista annoying and with MS's moves to install the Xbox as main gaming platform, many people's pro-Windows argument "I want to play games" is losing relevance as well.
No it's time to fill the gaps in Linux' software portfolio and the best way to do it is to employ full-time developers. Eg software comperable to iLife is missing or incomplete/unstable. There are a few other gaps as well, like driver support for cheap ink printers (IIRC mostly Epson and Canon) and so on.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Waste of Time and Money
by sbergman27 on Sun 28th Dec 2008 19:50 UTC in reply to "Waste of Time and Money"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

There are a few other gaps as well, like driver support for cheap ink printers (IIRC mostly Epson and Canon) and so on.

I thought Epson had an *excellent* reputation regarding Linux support? Last I had the misfortune of having a Canon inkjet, they sucked though, as did their reputation.

I think Samsung is a bit of an "unsung" hero. My Samsung ML-1710 is GDI, but has good FOSS drivers written by them. For my business customers, who's printing needs go far beyond my own, almost nonexistent ones, I've come to trust HP's LaserJets.

Over the years, I have found my visits to linuxprinting.org to be increasingly happy ones.

Edited 2008-12-28 19:51 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Waste of Time and Money
by factotum218 on Sun 28th Dec 2008 21:36 UTC in reply to "Waste of Time and Money"
factotum218 Member since:
2007-03-20

I think Microsoft going more into console gaming is great. I hate playing games on a PC outside of FPS's which have all pretty much been the same game for the last..oh I don't know, 12 or so years?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Waste of Time and Money
by lemur2 on Mon 29th Dec 2008 03:09 UTC in reply to "Waste of Time and Money"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

There are a few other gaps as well, like driver support for cheap ink printers (IIRC mostly Epson and Canon) and so on.


Linux has better support for printers than any other desktop OS.

Some printer manufacturers put a lot of effort into support for Linux, and provide open source code:

http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/index.html

Others just ignore Linux, but you can nevertheless find support for most of their printers in popular distributions, and for more obscure models there is a good chance of still finding support at linuxprinting.org

In contrast, if your cheap inkjet printer was out of production before the release of Windows Vista, then you have a fairly low chance of finding a driver for Vista (since any driver you may have for XP probably won't work).

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Waste of Time and Money
by sbergman27 on Mon 29th Dec 2008 03:14 UTC in reply to "RE: Waste of Time and Money"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Linux has better support for printers than any other desktop OS.

Your source for that?

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Waste of Time and Money
by lemur2 on Mon 29th Dec 2008 06:48 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Waste of Time and Money"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"Linux has better support for printers than any other desktop OS.

Your source for that?
"

http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2008/10/how-linux-supports-more-device...

http://changelog.complete.org/archives/644-linux-hardware-support-b...

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Waste of Time and Money
by sbergman27 on Mon 29th Dec 2008 06:53 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Waste of Time and Money"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Yes. I figured it would be Greg. Savior of boat anchors everywhere. But modern users care more about real, extant hardware than they do that a bunch of boat anchors are now supported. Lies. Damn lies. Statistics. And Kroah-Hartman presentations...

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Waste of Time and Money
by lemur2 on Mon 29th Dec 2008 09:08 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Waste of Time and Money"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Yes. I figured it would be Greg. Savior of boat anchors everywhere. But modern users care more about real, extant hardware than they do that a bunch of boat anchors are now supported. Lies. Damn lies. Statistics. And Kroah-Hartman presentations...


Oooh, nasty.

Meanwhile, Linux supports more real, extant hardware than any other OS distributed today.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Waste of Time and Money
by WorknMan on Mon 29th Dec 2008 03:27 UTC in reply to "Waste of Time and Money"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

The best ads for Linux are:
1.) Word of mouth
2.) The quality of Windows Vista
3.) The quality of Linux apps
4.) MS wants to convert PC gamers into Xbox gamers


Honestly, I find the quality of Linux apps (on the desktop anyway) to be quite lacking, which pretty much negates #2, especially since XP still works perfectly.

I don't really understand your point on #4... that's just the evolution of consoles. If they didn't have hard drives and online play, they'd be so 1990's ;) And personally, I'd rather buy a $300 console than have to upgrade my PC every 2-3 years to play the latest games.

Reply Score: 4

Because of delays at Redmond?
by factotum218 on Sun 28th Dec 2008 21:34 UTC
factotum218
Member since:
2007-03-20

What? The onslaught of "I switched to Ubuntu long enough to write this post" blogs that popped up everywhere around Vista's release time wasn't enough to sway people?

You've got to be kidding me!

Ah well, we'll just have to rely on good old linux desktop innovation...oh wait never mind.

I guess there's always the hundreds of compiz desktop vids on youtube to show just how, umm, "extreme" linux can be. Or how about the thousands of in depth tutorials and how-to's for applications like Quanta+ and other desktop alternatives that show exactly what a Linux or *BSD desktop is really capable of in productivity...oh yeah, those don't exist either.

Ah well, have fun. I have an evolving world of software to go play with elsewhere ;)

Reply Score: 2

and we all know how that turns out....
by Googol on Sun 28th Dec 2008 21:56 UTC
Googol
Member since:
2006-11-24

http://www.makeuseof.com/tech-fun/hello-i-am-linux/

What's next? I am OpenSuse 11.1 ?

Reply Score: 2

Sorry Linux is not Desktop ready yet...
by theTSF on Mon 29th Dec 2008 15:13 UTC
theTSF
Member since:
2005-09-27

It is fine for the Granda and the Geek but not much in the middle. There is a real UI Gap between the person who clicks the firefox icon to go to the internet and the guy who is happy with the command line. Even the Mighty Ubuntu (which is getting there) isn't quite there yet. There is this middle ground where people use computers for computing and real usage. They know about drivers and want to easily install them. They have use for the GUI environment they want to do more complex things in the GUI without having to go to the command prompt. Or hunt and peck for useless named applications.

Reply Score: 3

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Or hunt and peck for useless named applications.

Yes. Applications should be intuitively named, like "Excel" and "Outlook" so that the the user immediately knows what the application does.

Reply Score: 5

I'm glad
by NewbieLinuxGuy on Mon 29th Dec 2008 18:52 UTC
NewbieLinuxGuy
Member since:
2008-12-29

I'd like to check this thing out.

A few days ago on the Tyra show there was a guy claiming to earn 20k per month making youtube videos.

I suppose it'd be easier to make a list of things one won't find on youtube as opposed to things one will.

Thanks

Reply Score: 1

Here's the problem...
by tomcat on Tue 30th Dec 2008 08:38 UTC
tomcat
Member since:
2006-01-06

If the Linux Foundation starts looking for a diverse set of people to appear in "I'm Linux" commercials, all they're gonna find is a group of white guys with greasy hair and bad complexions.

Reply Score: 1

No need
by h3rman on Tue 30th Dec 2008 09:52 UTC
h3rman
Member since:
2006-08-09

Linux doesn't need propaganda. It's a waste of money.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by merkoth
by merkoth on Tue 30th Dec 2008 15:01 UTC
merkoth
Member since:
2006-09-22

"I am proficient in many apps"
"like 46 apps"

Learn how to do stuff rather how to use apps. You'll do yourself a great favor.

Reply Score: 2