According to a Novel-sponsored IDC survey, Linux seems to be gaining popularity among businesses implementing servers, and it has a bright outlook for both server and desktop installations in the coming future. On the other hand, netbooks have seen less and less default OEM installations of Linux. Windows now has over 90 percent of netbook sales, quashing any hopes of an open source revolution in the form of netbooks. Android, however, may be able to change things.
Post a Comment
Member since:
2005-07-06
Anyone surprised? half-assed support for their hardware, selecting for installation obscure Linux distributions no one has ever heard of and worse, the ability to purchase these said NetBooks with Linux is almost as rare as hen's teeth. What this speaks more about is the lack of willingness by Netbook vendors to spend the same time and effort into making sure their Linux offering is of the same standard as their Windows one.
Putting my tin foil hat on for a moment, its almost as though these are setup to fail or at least, Microsoft must be paying these vendors to keep putting out crappy linux Netbooks, claim that they have competition and then claim customers are choosing Windows over Linux and thus then claim that on a level playing field people choose Windows instead of Linux. Conspiracy theorist as it sounds - it is the only logical explanation as to explain how OEM's have made such a dogs breakfast of the whole thing.
Edited 2009-03-19 03:25 UTC
Member since:2005-11-10
Yeah I am with you. But I am thinking that MS is going to put out a locked down version of Windows 7 and ether people are going to have to spend an arm and a leg to upgrade or people are just going to hate the version of Windows they get and its going to turn people off to Netbooks.
Ether way you look at it MS would love to kill Netbooks. They can't make money money from them. The costs are too low. A $300 netbook cant leave much money for MS.
If they can turn people off to them and get them to go back to ether higher priced netbooks (Defeating the main purpose of a netbook outside of size) or just back to laptops, MS will make much more money.
Edited 2009-03-19 03:46 UTC
Member since:2008-12-06
Yuck. I hope the locked-down version of Windows 7 you mentioned doesn't come to pass. I really like the beta thus far, but being able to run only three applications at one time is idiotic. And what else were they artificially limiting on it? Ridiculous.
It may kill the netbook market... or what if there is no watered-down netbook version of 7 (gah, I hope not), and it forces MS to sell Windows 7 for cheaper all around? I won't lie, that would make the nerd within me happy.
Or... what if people hate the netbook version and Linux netbooks slowly make a comeback-- and actually come with usable, delicious systems? This is all speculation, of course, but they're possibilities.
Member since:2005-08-28
Member since:2005-07-06
It may kill the netbook market... or what if there is no watered-down netbook version of 7 (gah, I hope not), and it forces MS to sell Windows 7 for cheaper all around? I won't lie, that would make the nerd within me happy.
Or... what if people hate the netbook version and Linux netbooks slowly make a comeback-- and actually come with usable, delicious systems? This is all speculation, of course, but they're possibilities.
I guess it depends primarily on whether Microsoft see their future developing web based technologies, offering plugins for Linux end users on netbooks, and use their webservices to make money off non-Microsoft Windows customers. It would be a long shot given their addiction to domination rather than long term goals of making money via reoccurring revenue streams like subscriptions that can be accessed from a variety of non-Microsoft powered devices.
Member since:2007-09-06
I'd be interesting to see that happen. The sinic in me doesn't foresee it though. A long term goal would have to span multiple managers and restructurings. The MBAs at the top need short term goals to have that profit spike within there time at the desk so they can justify a promotion or pay increase too the board. It's all about the quick buck to look good rather than the long term buck to improve the company.
Member since:2005-11-10
It may kill the netbook market... or what if there is no watered-down netbook version of 7 (gah, I hope not), and it forces MS to sell Windows 7 for cheaper all around? I won't lie, that would make the nerd within me happy.
Or... what if people hate the netbook version and Linux netbooks slowly make a comeback-- and actually come with usable, delicious systems? This is all speculation, of course, but they're possibilities.
Yeah I am hoping that someone like Ubuntu, Google or Red Hat can take care of this Microsoft issue.
There is no way MS can make a full version of Windows 7 and sell it for $25 because people would go right out and stick it on their full sized PC. I can see MS trying to make a Netbook version that ether is locked down some way or only runs on machines with the Atom processor in them.
It will be interesting to see how this goes down. Will be very interesting if Netbooks with ARM processors come out, are lower cost then ATOM based machines and also run more like devices.
Notice how people care about what is on their PC but not so much what is on their phone. Meaning when it comes to PC's people tend to know and want Windows. But on something like a smart phone using the iPhone (Which can do a lot of the same tasks a PC can) is fine.
Someone or company needs to bridge that gap so that people will not care so much what is running on their netbooks.
Member since:2005-07-06
Rumour has it that they were going to offer Windows 7 Starter which limits to 3 applications at the same time and a host of other limitations. They then back pedalled and said that OEM's could install any Windows 7 Edition they wished.
But lets step back and consider this; Windows XP was sold to the Netbook manufacturers reportedly at a really low price - the only way to keep Windows on the Netbook viable would be lower the price or offer a crippled version.
Then comes back to the question; what is a netbook? is it based on price? specifications? screen size? because if they went down the track of an uncrippled Windows 7 that is licensed for use only with netbooks - how do you define what is a netbook versus a standard laptop versus an ultra portable?
If they can turn people off to them and get them to go back to ether higher priced netbooks (Defeating the main purpose of a netbook outside of size) or just back to laptops, MS will make much more money.
I don't know how Microsoft will approach it; will they offer Windows 7 embedded to manufacturers and have them do a custom version for their Netbooks rather than the vanilla Windows? then there is the obvious issue with netbooks, they're non-upgradable easily so it'll constrain their growth-of-bloat and worse, people will compare software prices to hardware prices and demand prices to be lowered since one can't justify putting a $300 office suite on a $300 (or cheaper) device.
Microsoft is now stuck between a rock and a hard place; netbooks are powerful enough for most people - heck, I now see students use it as their everyday laptop when in lectures. Its going to make Microsoft squirm and finally cave in and build a model that is based on something sustainable rather fleecing the customer through the gruesome OEM/Microsoft arrangement of more bloated software compels more hardware sales.
Member since:2006-05-26
I'm not convinced your suggestion that people won't put $300 software on a $300 machine is correct: there are a lot of laptops you can buy new for about that price when they go on special, that are likely to actually be more powerful than a net book.
Also, the size of device=cost of software isn't necessarily a good comparison/reasoning, either, because the whole point of getting something small is because you believe it fits your needs better than something bigger, and therefore you're willing/able to pay the inevitable premium for such a critter, as that's a value by itself, combined with the reality that it tends to cost more to make things smaller for the equivalent performance you could get cheaply in a larger machine. Look at the price of some of the smallest regular (or whatever you want to call them!) laptops: they cost a lot more than something that's just a bit bigger, physically, and far more than a desktop with the equivalent RAM/speed/etc. making portability a much more expensive thing.
Now, that's not to say that customers aren't always looking to get their software as cheaply as they can, as long as it fulfills their real or perceived needs 
Member since:2005-10-12
Is it the vendors that tweak Windows to run well on their netbooks, or is it that the netbook platform is so standardized that a standard offering from Microsoft works well (enough) on every vendor's netbooks? Linpus and Xandros are obviously in the game on the Linux side; as to the quality of their offering, the market has spoken.
Member since:2008-07-15
The vendors do indeed tweak Windows a bit, typically this involves slipstreaming the required drivers into their installation disks. Do you honestly think Windows XP Home supports all netbook hardware out of the box, or even most of it? It doesn't even have built-in drivers for the graphics chips, let alone anything else.
Installing a blank copy of XP on to a netbook is just like installing it on any other laptop these days, you need to go download the appropriate drivers for your hardware. This counts as tweaking the default installation in my book.
Member since:
2006-05-26
But one of the issues that'll be run into by non-geeks getting net books with Linux installed (I'd love to see statistics for what percentage of net book buyers aren't the technogeek crowd: anyone know a link?) is if it doesn't come with all the power of the standard Office applications they all know and love/loathe and the other things, not excluding various games, there may possibly be a bad PR backlash coming down the line, especially since all things Linux-derived are so fragmented.
Now, what would be interesting, and a lot of people are speculating about, is Apple coming out with a Net Book device of some type: my best guess is it'd be a scaled up iPod Touch/iPhone device using some sort of ARM processor mutation, and have a larger multitouch screen at a higher resolution, and would use all existing iPhone/iPod Touch software as-is. Sure, you can argue all you want about having tactile keyboards: haptic feedback (or something that emulates it, via the the silent mode used on the iPhone) is no big deal, if really desired, though people will still argue you can't type as fast as on a physical keyboard, but really, how many people are typing huge amounts of text and working with lots of detailed stuff on net books? If the main purposes people use it for are email and browsing the web, the keyboard isn't the top thing: portability and connectivity are, and with a cellular connection combined with WiFi and Bluetooth, that's a non-issue in most cases. With having the same iPhone OS on it, and iTunes, it makes finding software for it as simple as anything can be for pretty much all users (though the AppStore can use easier ways to search) which cannot be underestimated.
The biggest potential problem with Apple releasing their net book? Price! The biggest problem is NOT whether it cannibalizes the sales of other things they already have: they've already stated that if anyone is going to cannibalize their sales, they'll be the ones to do it, plus, if people really need a full laptop, they're not going to get a net book, and those that really want a net book because they want/need a larger GUI and faster typing capacity, well, they're not too likely to get an iPhone/iPod Touch, either. Apple already pretty much has the software side all taken care of: with 25,000 apps in the AppStore (granted, it seems probable 99% are pure crap and repeats of other crappy apps) with easily 50,000 developers busily creating new ones... well, all together, Apple has a better overall solution for a net book ecosystem, with the biggest remaining question being: price.
Nonetheless, I welcome Android to the mix, and other Linux-based systems: competition is a good thing, as long as there aren't too many mutations to attempt to develop for: too much fragmentation makes developer's lives hell, as well as user's lives not always as good, because it isn't feasible to target too many majorly different systems for development and testing costs.
Member since:
2006-09-22
The netbook situation doesn't surprise me at all. Heck, I'm a full time Linux user and I'd gladly buy a Windows netbook just to get better hardware. Moreover, the distros they usually ship with these devices are so ugly and ankward most Linux users wouldn't even touch them...
It's a real shame, netboks were perfect for Linux.
Member since:2009-03-19
Numbers can be deceiving since several people I know bought the windows netbook and slapped their favorite linux distro on it. I did it myself as well. I would imagine that quite a few linux users were drawn in by the larger traditional hard drives and with a usb CD/DVD drive installation is not that complicated for the moderate tech-able person.
Member since:2007-01-17
Member since:2005-07-06
Count me in for my Asus 1000HE. It was the most bang for the buck. It is being delivered today, and my USB flash drive has Ubuntu 9.04 netbook remix ready to go. However, I will be dual-booting for awhile. Eventually I'll give XP the boot after I get everything working under Ubuntu.
Member since:2008-06-09
It's a real shame, netboks were perfect for Linux.
I had the opposite experience. You can't buy a windows xp netbook with 2GB RAM. The hardware specs for XP netbooks even mention that the hardware supports a max of 1GB even though it can support 2GB.
Take the HP mini note ME for instance that is the only HP netbook with 2GB RAM.
Member since:
2005-07-06
I was in the futureshop next door and there was 6 aspire one , 1 dell mini and a toshiba ... all running Windows XP. I asked about GNU/Linux model and they where out , already sold out , due to lowest price according to vendor ... I asked if they could load GNU/Linux on it to show to someone , they said they come factory made like this , they don't do os swapping locally.
Member since:
2006-12-14
Member since:
2007-05-28
I know a bunch of people with netbooks (all students). For all of them goes that it's their only computer (maybe in addition to a games console), and they chose it over a standard-size laptop because of size and price. Of course they go for Windows due to familiarity. Most of them probably don't know what Linux is except in the most general of terms.
So until you put OpenOffice on Android I don't see that going anywhere, except for with OS geeks (like moi).
Member since:
2007-04-23
This summer and autumn will see a slew of new low-priced and slick ARM-based netbooks from a multitude of vendors. These will not be able to run XP, Vista or Win7 (except by emulation, and that will be dog slow), so they will almost certainly come with Linux, MacOS X (Apple only) or Symbian (Nokia?) instead.
The ARM-based netbooks are expected to be lower-priced and slimmer than the Atom-based counterparts (and the models that were shown at Comdex looked very slick), as well as having much better battery life. So while they don't run Windows, they will have enough merit to make that unimportant.
Remember that at first Asus Eee ran Linux only, but this didn't stop it from selling like hot cakes.
Member since:
2008-07-24
Let's all say it together three times. "The USA is not the world. The USA is not the world. The USA is not the world."
There are far more Europeans than Americans. There are far more Chinese than Europeans. China's economy will soon be bigger than the USA's. Microsoft is the USA's home team. Why would anyone expect US statistics to be representative of the whole world?
Much as I enjoy OSnews, I'm tired of the way this site insists on presenting US statistics as if they represented the entire planet. Maybe I need to move on to some other place that's more discerning.
Member since:2006-01-06
Your complaints are somewhat lame...a counter example would be the influence Japan has on the gaming industry even though their population is small.
I have my doubts about china surpassing the US...except that China at the local level is more capitalistic and their taxes are dramatically lower...for now their officials are still more corrupt. The US is the major driving force for computer sales in general.
I would be interested in seeing worldwide sales numbers of netbooks though.
As one person mentioned above in the US it's impossible (or nearly) to find a linux based netbook that's NOT using SSD. It seems as though the linux versions are locked into worse hardware with ~$20 more for a version with more desirable hardware + xp on it.
I personally really look forward to how well these ARM units work, but I believe Intel may have time to push atom to 32nm and move more to SOC in order to blunt the ARM advantage. The ARM guys could have knocked this out of the park if they'd gone into netbooks about the time atom was first released.
Member since:2008-07-24
Except that the USA has tended to lag Asia and Europe in the netbook market, not lead. The netbook phenomenon didn't start in the USA and many, if not most, new models aren't launched in the USA first. The big names in netbooks - Asus, Acer, etc aren't American.
Go read what the experts say: most economic forecasters expect China's GDP to be equal to the USA's in 8-10 years time. I put more weight on pronouncements from the IMF and independent economists than I do on your sketchily researched observations about corruption.
I don't know what 'major driving force' means. If you're attempting to say that trends emerge first in the USA, the rise of netbooks proves you wrong.
The world's economic axis is tilting sharply. I'm not sure that you've noticed.
Member since:2005-11-10
China's economy can only become bigger then the US if the US and Europe keep them growing. And right now that is not the case.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7844281.stm
The problem with China and India is that you have WAYYYY more poor people then wealthy and in China and India you don't have much of a middle class.
So when the world stops using China and India as their workshops and call centers how can China and India maintain their growth??
Both countries have over 1 Billion people. For instance in China you have about 400 million people doing ok and wealthy (Which is more people then the US as a whole) but almost 900 Million people who are poor. Same in India, and a similar but smaller issue in Europe with Eastern Europeans coming into the EU. How do you manage to take care of all those poor people? Will 400 million people in China be able to handle the downward pull of the other almost 1 Billion people??
Meaning will they be able to provide enough jobs, money etc to keep a growing economy? I doubt it but you never know.
Remember in the USA most people put more into the economy then they take out. Remember our poor are more closer to middle class then the middle class in most countries. In China ether the extra poor will have to be forgotten about (Which can't last forever if they want to keep peace and order) or they will provide a welfare like pull on the economy.
Member since:2008-07-24
I really don't want to turn this into a debate about economics, but you're seriously wrong on several counts. First, China's economy will become bigger than the USA's if it continues to enjoy a higher relative growth rate, and there's no sign of a reversal in that trend. Although China's growth has slowed, the major industrialised economies have gone into reverse, so China is catching up as quickly as it ever did.
Second, it's simply untrue to say that in the USA most people put in more than they take out - the opposite has been true on a massive scale, and the resultant global imbalances are a significant cause of the current financial crisis (if you're interested, you can read all about it in the UK Government's Turner report published yesterday).
Third, you're completely wrong to believe that China can't develop its economy without Western demand. It has a massive government surplus and a very high personal savings rate; when, over time this is switched into demand for domestic products, its growth rate could actually accelerate.
But my original post was about the idiocy of passing off US data as if it applied to the whole world. It doesn't, and, if that were ever true, it's becoming less true as Eastern economies grow. OSnews should apply higher journalistic standards.
Member since:2005-11-10
Sorry but you may want to read in more detail and not believe the fake growth numbers that China puts out.
http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/1101020617/cover.html
[q]Second, it's simply untrue to say that in the USA most people put in more than they take out - the opposite has been true on a massive scale, and the resultant global imbalances are a significant cause of the current financial crisis (if you're interested, you can read all about it in the UK Government's Turner report published yesterday).
When I said in the US people put more in then they take out I mean that the US is not a welfare state. Less then 1/4 of Americans are poor where as in China almost 3/4 of the people are. Poor people can not keeping an economy growing. Nor can large savings. If most people save a lot as you say they are doing in China then that too will kill the growth of the economy. Which is why: "Like other Asian countries, China is looking for ways to get people to spend in hopes of offsetting plunging foreign demand. The eastern Chinese cities of Nanjing, Hangzhou, and Ningbo, for instance, have spent millions distributing coupons to consumers for use in hotels, restaurants, and tourist destinations."
China has a very high personal savings rate among those who actually make money. But since that is only 1/4th of the population that doesn't make for a lot of money. And like I said above that also kills growth. And you also say the government has a high surplus, again that is not true. China has loaned almost 2/3 of that surplus to the US.. Why? Because they can't afford to lose us as a trading partner. On top of that they are pouring billions into stimulus packages just like we are.
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/mar2009/gb20090313_13...
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/mar2009/gb20090311_12...
I mean everyone is saying that China must grow at 8% per year to make enough jobs for the millions and millions of people that are now rolling from farming to work. This year they are already looking at dipping below 8% with 20 million people that were in the export business now out of work! Also for a country that does not need the US to grow they are sure worried about the buy American clauses in our stimulus plans.
Oh and one last thing. At this present time the GDP of China as of Q4 of 2008: $7.8 trillion, US GDP with all of our issues: $14.26 trillion (Almost double China)
You are right that the world does not revolve around the US like it used to and US data can not be applied to the whole world. But we are still and will continue to be for a while the big boys on the block just like Microsoft. You might not like us but you can't rid of us yet.
Member since:2008-07-24
Whatever makes you think I don't like the USA. On the contrary, I love and admire many things about the your country. I've spent many happy holidays in North America, and, in my experience, Americans and Canadians are amongst the most friendly, honest, principled and open minded people on the planet. But your star, although still bright shining, is on the wane - as is ours in Britain. That's not a good thing in my opinion, but it's a thing nonetheless.
Trends in computing in the USA are important, relevant and interesting to me. All this article (like, unfortunately, very many others on this site) needs is the letters 'USA' in both the title and the narrative.
Member since:2005-11-10
Trends in computing in the USA are important, relevant and interesting to me. All this article (like, unfortunately, very many others on this site) needs is the letters 'USA' in both the title and the narrative.
I apologize, I was just being sarcastic and didn't think you really didn't like the US. We are brothers (Britain and the US) Actually more like father and child or Mother and child (Britain being our mother or father land)
Really I just want to make sure the world knows that the reports of our death are greatly exaggerated. LOL!
But you are right. We have mostly had our time. The 20th century was that time and that time has now passed. :-(
But as long as we stick together all will be well for generations to come.
Member since:2009-03-21
That overlooks quite a bit. First that China has a rendezvous with demographics; it's One Child policy will catch up to them as this workforce ages.
Secondly, even with their growth it's below what they need so that they are losing GNP per capita
Second, it's simply untrue to say that in the USA most people put in more than they take out - the opposite has been true on a massive scale, and the resultant global imbalances are a significant cause of the current financial crisis (if you're interested, you can read all about it in the UK Government's Turner report published yesterday).
Apparently you've missed the last twenty years of Chinese economic growth where they developed their economy with Western demand. Chinese savings isn't enough to develop five years of growth, it certainly isn't enough to compensate for the demands of the EU and North American markets. Present per capita purchasing power certainly isn't enough to drive Chinese growth at current levels.
Chinese investment firms (with that savings surplus) aren't going to (voluntarily) invest internally when overseas returns in the US and the EU are dramatically higher. Chinese gov't surplus funds are in US dollars because, even with the US economy's problems US treasury bonds are considered safe and offer a good return on investment. It's especially true in the last few months when the dollar has appreciated.
I wouldn't put any money except that I'd be willing to lose on the Chinese, not just yet. They're still heavily dependent on exports, suffer from extreme poverty and may soon have demography problems.
Member since:2008-12-06
I'm just curious... how are these statistics for the US only? The 300 IT professionals were from varied locations around the world, and the netbook sales statistics are from a survey done of manufacturers' sales of netbooks with Windows installed by default; it doesn't specify whether these were worldwide sales, but it also doesn't specify that they were US-only sales, either. After reading the links provided in the article, I had assumed it was worldwide. Is there a link you could provide to support that they're not?
Member since:2008-07-24
You have to follow the link to the 90% statistic and then follow a link in that article to find the source data. In the second article, you find this:
And that's exactly the problem I have: US data presented as if it were worldwide. I suspect (but don't know for sure) that it's worse than that - if I recall correctly, NPD generally reports on retail sales excluding mail order. Tech-savvy buyers are far more likely buy by mail order, so total US sales will be much less biased towards Windows.
Member since:2008-12-06
Ah. I see it, now. It's in one of the quotes in that linked article. I can understand the frustration, only having US statistics and having them presented in a way that sounds as if they're worldwide. There's some form of accuracy to it, though, or at least in my opinion for whatever it's worth. I think the US as a whole is big enough and diverse enough to reflect somewhat of an accurate stance on many worldwide things... still, I'll maintain with you that the 90% statistic doesn't hold worldwide and that it's probably at least 20%-30% less (my very, very rough educated guess).
Member since:
2006-07-15
Member since:2006-12-27
Member since:
2006-03-12
Dell reports one third of netbooks shipping with Linux with approximately the same percentage of return rates which is none too shabby however you spin it.
2 things although I'm sure they have been discussed in more detail elsewhere is price comparison between Linux and Windows running on the same machine is insanely, and always come with changes in specification, and not always for the better.
gOS! Ubuntu! seriously I think what has been clear is that people want a little laptop for 300 pounds.
What I would love to see is those XP netbooks being turned into Linux machines. Simply because running an unsupported 8 year old OS will become clear.
Netbooks will come with the fantastically crippled Windows Stater Edition. The best news yet. That is there netbook strategy. Spend money to upgrade or move to another OS. Hmmmm
Yeah ARM, win lose or draw we are going to see come success of these if they can compete as well on paper over battery life and Cost which it looks like they can.
Why is android a competitor to what is already out there, Its continued success on mobile phones is because of its own merits. My next Mobile will be a better OpenMoko or an Android Phone.
Seriously though, Netbooks right now are simply to expensive to me right now. I was pondering buying one, but instead went for a 22" LG 16:9 1920x1080 for half the price of a netbook. I supect I'm not the only one choosing not to buy on price, and loosing Windows is a strategy for getting me closer to buy. Including Shareware Windows 7 is not going cut the mustard with anyone.
