Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 1st Apr 2009 10:39 UTC, submitted by John Mills
Internet & Networking And so Firefox continues its march into Europe. It is no secret that alternative browsers are much more popular in Europe than they are in North America, and recent statistics by StatCounter confirm that Firefox 3.0 has actually surpassed Internet Explorer 7, making it the most popular browser in Europe.
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Comment by punktyras
by Punktyras on Wed 1st Apr 2009 10:52 UTC
Punktyras
Member since:
2006-01-07

Mixed feelings about statistics. Good to hear FF is doing well. But to hear it on 1 Apr. is not as funny as it could be on any other day of the year ;)

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by punktyras
by benjay on Wed 1st Apr 2009 11:23 UTC in reply to "Comment by punktyras"
benjay Member since:
2009-04-01

Mixed feelings about statistics.


Same here. And switching to bar view doesn't make me feel better ... ;-)
In bar view, Firefox is still behind IE. Hmm, did I miss something ....?

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Comment by punktyras
by bousozoku on Wed 1st Apr 2009 15:54 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by punktyras"
bousozoku Member since:
2006-01-23

"Mixed feelings about statistics.


Same here. And switching to bar view doesn't make me feel better ... ;-)
In bar view, Firefox is still behind IE. Hmm, did I miss something ....?
"

Did you notice that Firefox (all versions) is about 10 % behind IE (all versions)?

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by punktyras
by Delgarde on Wed 1st Apr 2009 20:20 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by punktyras"
Delgarde Member since:
2008-08-19

Did you notice that Firefox (all versions) is about 10 % behind IE (all versions)?


Probably reflecting the fact that Firefox users are more likely to be running the current version than IE users. Going by that chart, IE6 still makes up nearly a third of the total IE userbase. It's unkillable, that piece of junk...

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by punktyras
by xfranky on Wed 1st Apr 2009 11:44 UTC in reply to "Comment by punktyras"
xfranky Member since:
2006-09-19

The news was featured on arstechnica on March 31, so I believe it's got nothing to do with today's madness ;)

http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/03/firefox-3-marketsha...

Edited 2009-04-01 11:44 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by punktyras
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 1st Apr 2009 11:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by punktyras"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Indeed. I don't want the April Fool's nonsense on OSNews. Have you ever seen a website make an actually funny April Fool's joke?

Thought so.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by punktyras
by Slapo on Wed 1st Apr 2009 11:54 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by punktyras"
Slapo Member since:
2005-07-06

The slashdot OMG!!! Ponies!!! skin was a fairly good joke (or so I think).
Google "slashdot omg ponies" for screenshots.

Reply Score: 6

This is great news.
by Laurence on Wed 1st Apr 2009 10:53 UTC
Laurence
Member since:
2007-03-26

As much as I'm not a Firefox user myself (preferring Opera), it's great to see that many Windows users are coming to realise that there is a choice out there and that they're not stuck with the shipped browser.

Next mission is to get offices on board as many users are tied into Internet Explorer (and often older versions of IE too) by their businesses IT department.

Reply Score: 6

RE: This is great news.
by Liquidator on Wed 1st Apr 2009 16:40 UTC in reply to "This is great news."
Liquidator Member since:
2007-03-04

I'm happy to see Opera has 7% market shares around here ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: This is great news.
by werpu on Sun 5th Apr 2009 08:41 UTC in reply to "RE: This is great news."
werpu Member since:
2006-01-18

I'm happy to see Opera has 7% market shares around here ;)

The problem I have with Opera is that it still has a hellish load of bugs in its 9.0 revisions regarding CSS all of them are fixed in the 10.0 alpha. But the bugs were severe enough that I had to limit a site ones to the features IE6 got, because a load of extended DHTML/Web2.0 features triggered exactly those bugs. As much as I love Opera, I cannot wait until version 10 is finally here, which is really good, even in its alpha stage!

Reply Score: 1

RE: This is great news.
by DrillSgt on Wed 1st Apr 2009 16:58 UTC in reply to "This is great news."
DrillSgt Member since:
2005-12-02

Next mission is to get offices on board as many users are tied into Internet Explorer (and often older versions of IE too) by their businesses IT department.


Actually it is not the IT departments for the most part. It is normally the marketing department or accounting department who use specialized software. The IT department, contrary to popular belief, usually just recommends things and then the management makes the decision on it. The management being usually Operations, of which accounting falls under, and then the Sales/Marketing department. Sad, but true.

Reply Score: 2

Also Firefox 1.x is not counted
by lindkvis on Wed 1st Apr 2009 11:18 UTC
lindkvis
Member since:
2006-11-21

... and is likely to be a decent part of the "Other" category along with Mozilla/Netscape and IE 5.x and earlier.

The main thing is that IE no longer has a browser monopoly meaning that if you ignore other browsers you are chucking away a considerable part of the market, something no businesses can afford.

Reply Score: 4

unoengborg Member since:
2005-07-06

Actually, the lost business might be even worse than the statistical differences in browser usage may imply.

This might be especially true if your business is IT related. The users that are willing to spend time and effort to switch browser may also likely be more willing thant the average user to spend time/maoney on other IT related products.

Reply Score: 4

Not only numbers but facts
by Damnshock on Wed 1st Apr 2009 11:53 UTC
Damnshock
Member since:
2006-09-15

In the real worl, the world out there and not this of numbers says that firefox is *really* growing and so does linux.

Let me explain: no so long ago, say 2-3 years I never saw a single computer/laptop with firefox and/or linux installed on it and everyone that knew I wasn't using Microsoft but Linux/FreeBSD thought I was a complete geek. They still think I am although the trend has changed: I see people in college with linux, home computers using firefox as browser (even with linux!) and, the *really* good news is that I've seen some companies/shops working with linux (usually Red Hat based distros).

I'm not claiming for the Opensource dominance but to free choice! Once the world has realised that there's not only Microsoft on software products things will improve a lot!

Just my two cents...

Damnshock

Reply Score: 8

RE: Not only numbers but facts
by Adurbe on Wed 1st Apr 2009 12:17 UTC in reply to "Not only numbers but facts"
Adurbe Member since:
2005-07-06

same can be extended to Macs

In the mid 1990s when I was at school there was me and 1 Girl in the entire school that had a mac at home!!!

Now they are becoming incredibly popular! (I know as being known as the mac user for all those years has also made me the point of support calls no.1)

As you say, linux is getting through, my mum is now using ubuntu :-)

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Not only numbers but facts
by Kroc on Wed 1st Apr 2009 12:23 UTC in reply to "RE: Not only numbers but facts"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

And fat people.

When I was at school (early 90s) there was one large kid in the whole school, and even then he wasn't obese, or unfit.

Now kids are right chunkamunkas with a packet of crisps surgically attached to the left hand.

Reply Score: 4

Hypnos Member since:
2008-11-19

Obviously, using alternative OSes makes you fat.

Reply Score: 2

Hussein Member since:
2008-11-22

correlation is not causation

Reply Score: 1

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Obviously, using alternative OSes makes you fat.

correlation is not causation

===

Agreed. We must base our hypotheses upon evidence.

Let's start here:

http://www.fsf.org/photos/ted-tso-free-software-award-2006

Edited 2009-04-01 23:04 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Hypnos Member since:
2008-11-19

[/sarcasm]

Reply Score: 1

AbuHassan Member since:
2008-08-26

I'm surprised we Europeans aren't up there with the Yanks using IE7, as we seem to be closely imitating them with regards to obesity, bad manners and listening to shite music these days! ;)

Reply Score: 1

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Now kids are right chunkamunkas with a packet of crisps surgically attached to the left hand.

And a mobile phone to the other. :-(

Edited 2009-04-01 20:23 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Not only numbers but facts
by Fergy on Wed 1st Apr 2009 20:32 UTC in reply to "RE: Not only numbers but facts"
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

same can be extended to Macs

In the mid 1990s when I was at school there was me and 1 Girl in the entire school that had a mac at home!!!

Now they are becoming incredibly popular! (I know as being known as the mac user for all those years has also made me the point of support calls no.1)


In which country? I live in the Netherlands and know nobody with a mac. I am also tech-support for everybody I know. It's all windows.

Reply Score: 1

puenktchen Member since:
2007-07-27

"same can be extended to Macs ... Now they are becoming incredibly popular!


In which country? I live in the Netherlands and know nobody with a mac.
"

it also depends on the city you live in and the people you know. if you go to any hip coffeehouse in the center of berlin, you'll get the very wrong impression that a majority of the inhabitants of germany uses macbooks. if you go the library of the law school, you'll still see about a quarter of these rather conservative students using macs. but in the library of the law school of leipzig, you'll hardly see a single mac.

Edited 2009-04-02 08:39 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Not only numbers but facts
by werpu on Sun 5th Apr 2009 08:39 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Not only numbers but facts"
werpu Member since:
2006-01-18

I live in Austria, and i see a hellish number of people in the trains using macs (mostly students with macbooks)
and in the office where I work, given the option of buying new workplace pcs and notebooks a lot of people have shifted towards macs. I think there are about 2-3 pc users left, the rest uses macs :-)

Reply Score: 1

I have better news
by utumno on Wed 1st Apr 2009 15:45 UTC
utumno
Member since:
2008-02-10

The same page tells me that Firefox currently holds 100% of the market in Antarctica:

http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-an-weekly-200904-200913

Moreover, those guys claim Opera holds 44% of the market in Ukraine:

http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-UA-weekly-200904-200913

which I find utterly ridiculous.

Edited 2009-04-01 15:53 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: I have better news
by Liquidator on Wed 1st Apr 2009 16:42 UTC in reply to "I have better news"
Liquidator Member since:
2007-03-04

LOL....This is what a marketer would call "unrepresentative". When you don't have enough people, figures aren't reliable.

Reply Score: 2

RE: I have better news
by frodirk on Wed 1st Apr 2009 21:43 UTC in reply to "I have better news"
frodirk Member since:
2009-04-01

What browsers do the friends you have in Ukraine use?

What makes you so sure the Ukraine stats are so uttely ridiculous?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: I have better news
by Liquidator on Thu 2nd Apr 2009 08:19 UTC in reply to "RE: I have better news"
Liquidator Member since:
2007-03-04

Because there's obviously something wrong with the stats. How many people were counted in Ukraine? 1? 2? Probably no more than that to have such results.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: I have better news
by spiderman on Thu 2nd Apr 2009 13:20 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: I have better news"
spiderman Member since:
2008-10-23

You can't have 44% with 1 or 2 people counted, you can only have 0%, 50% or 100%.
I don't find that ridiculous at all, I find it quite possible. It's not because in your country everybody talk english that it is not possible that there are only 1 or 2% in Ukraine who do. What is so ridiculous?
Look at that:
http://www.google.fr/trends?q=opera%2C+firefox%2C+internet+...
Google trends says the same thing as the article.
I believe it to be very close to the truth.

Edited 2009-04-02 13:28 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: I have better news
by lindkvis on Thu 2nd Apr 2009 16:08 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: I have better news"
lindkvis Member since:
2006-11-21

While Opera may be slightly overrepresented in this survey, it seems very clear that they do have a very strong market share in Russia and the Ukraine.

Look at these:
http://index.bigmir.net/users?&d=0&y=1
http://www.liveinternet.ru/stat/ru/browsers.html?period=month

Maybe Opera simply has very good Russian and Ukrainian language versions?

Reply Score: 1

Drop in IE7
by steogede2 on Wed 1st Apr 2009 20:47 UTC
steogede2
Member since:
2007-08-17

IE 7 would be tying Firefox 3.0 for the lead if the increased number of IE 8 users were using IE 7. If Firefox 3.1 were released tomorrow, half of the Firefox users would be using it in a week, which would make the figures for 3.0 and 3.1 look pretty low.

What is more interesting, IMHO, is how slight the uptake of IE 8 has been since it's official release this week. I suppose next week might show a slightly higher uptake.

I'm not complaining though, it is nice to see so many people using 'alternative'/'minority' browsers - could be very useful for beating the banking websites (and similar) round the head with.

BTW the reason that IE is in the lead in the bar chart is that the bar chart shows an aggregate figure for the last 9 weeks - in the line chart the figures for each week are separate.

Reply Score: 1

The big thing is
by Splinter on Wed 1st Apr 2009 21:04 UTC
Splinter
Member since:
2005-07-13

Even world wide Firefox 3.0 surpasses IE 6. So all the arguments saying we have to support IE 6 fully for site visitors also should be saying the same for FireFox!.

Reply Score: 1

RE: The big thing is
by deathshadow on Sat 4th Apr 2009 08:18 UTC in reply to "The big thing is"
deathshadow Member since:
2005-07-12

... and that's the thing - REALLY there is NO good reason NOT to be able to support all of them, IE6 and newer with minimal effort, apart from the fact that nobody has been coding web pages CORRECTLY the past decade. Tables for layout, non-semantic markup, presentation in the markup, lack of understanding the box model, over-reliance on content sizes, lack of testing...

Worst part is, 90% of the books on shelves are complete outdated trash, and don't even get me STARTED on the education aspect of web development.

Like most other statistics you are going to see people trying to use it to justify taking sleazeball shortcuts that will do nothing but cost them in the long run... remember at the end of the day the numbers may be real, but you can spin them to say anything through omission...

Take the headline itself "FF outpaces IE7" people aren't going to pay much attention to the 7 part and assume you mean IE as a whole...

Which is funny since if you look down the graph you'll notice that IE8 went up the exact same amount 7 went down... So IE7+IE8 is still greater than FF3. Wait, the number of IE7 users dipped when IE8 was released? Who'd have thunk it?

Reply Score: 2

Serious numbers
by werpu on Sun 5th Apr 2009 08:37 UTC
werpu
Member since:
2006-01-18

I ran google analytics on a programmers centric site I have out there and the result was amazing:
70% firefox, all of them on various incarnations of Firefox3

20% on IE around a little bit less than half of them still on IE6 and.
The rest is other browsers (Dominated by Safari, Opera and Chrome)

Ok this is a german site and programmers centric. But it is a nice indicator of where things are heading!
The best number is the number of IE6 users which soon will be under the you can finally ignore them border of around 5-7%!
In about a years time at least for programmer centric sites you can finally start to ignore the browser.

My personally guess is all of the IE6 users are from corporations and are forced to use it. Most private users nowadays either have shifted to fox or use already ie7, but corporations are the biggest problem!

The weekend numbers will probably show almost no IE6 users if any IE numbers but that will take a little bit longer to gather (the site is relatively new)

Reply Score: 1