Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 16th Apr 2009 21:39 UTC
Graphics, User Interfaces About a year ago, OSNews reported on Grape, a new way to manage your desktop. Back then, Grape was only a concept, a set of ideas without an implementation. This is different now: Grape has been turned into an actual piece of working software, and the people behind the project, Yann Le Coroller and Dockland Software's Stephane, gave us early access by means of a beta release. We are also giving away beta access, se be sure to read on to the end of the article to find out how you can get beta access (hint: post a comment). Update: The response has been more substantial than I anticipated, so the cut-off point is 50 comments. Twelve comments left, guys and girls, so hurry up! Update II: Sorry guys, we're full already (that was quick)! Thanks for the enormous interest from everyone. I'll send the invites out today! Update III: All invites have been sent out. Enjoy testing Grape, and be sure to post your findings here on OSNews. Also, report any bugs here.
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Beta-access
by Arno on Thu 16th Apr 2009 21:45 UTC
Arno
Member since:
2006-01-10

Looks like a useful way to manage your desktop. I would like beta-access.

Reply Score: 1

Invite Please
by Laughing Man on Thu 16th Apr 2009 22:01 UTC
Laughing Man
Member since:
2009-04-16

I'd like to try it out as well. Do you know if it works with Compiz? Since it runs as a program and not as a desktop I imagine it would.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Invite Please
by csasso on Thu 16th Apr 2009 23:31 UTC in reply to "Invite Please"
csasso Member since:
2007-02-27

It's for Macs only.

Reply Score: 1

(sees bandwagon) *spacebar*
by poundsmack on Thu 16th Apr 2009 22:03 UTC
poundsmack
Member since:
2005-07-13

...yes I too would like a beta invite. I really hope someone gets the refference i made in the title of this post ;)

Reply Score: 2

me too
by broken_symlink on Thu 16th Apr 2009 22:10 UTC
broken_symlink
Member since:
2005-07-06

I want beta access too. And I think people who ask if it works with Compiz should not be given access for obvious reasons.

Reply Score: 8

RE: me too
by flanque on Fri 17th Apr 2009 00:28 UTC in reply to "me too"
flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

I agree.. does it work with DirectX? Please sign me up.

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: me too
by Ian Christie on Fri 17th Apr 2009 02:23 UTC in reply to "RE: me too"
Ian Christie Member since:
2005-07-06

I agree.. does it work with DirectX? Please sign me up.


First, NO it won't work with DirectX and to an earlier poster, most likely not with Compiz either. Requests like this show that you may not have read the article properly as Grape is ONLY for MAC OSX. Not Windows, Linux, BSDs etc. Admittedly I don't know if Compiz is available on Mac or not, but the article did list the technologies that it works with.

With all that said, I'd love to try it but I don't have a Mac so I can't.

Edited 2009-04-17 02:24 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: me too
by flanque on Fri 17th Apr 2009 02:36 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: me too"
flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

Uh... It was a bit of a joke about the other person asking about Compbiz....

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: me too
by google_ninja on Fri 17th Apr 2009 16:15 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: me too"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

Does it work on Be?

Reply Score: 3

Looks interesting..
by cm49 on Thu 16th Apr 2009 22:11 UTC
cm49
Member since:
2007-03-23

..and I would of course like beta access.

Reply Score: 1

Count me in.
by the_webers_inc on Thu 16th Apr 2009 22:11 UTC
the_webers_inc
Member since:
2005-07-07

I would like access to the beta as well.

Reply Score: 1

Thanks
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 16th Apr 2009 22:14 UTC
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

Okay guys, I'll process everybody's requests tomorrow CET (it's 00:14 here, bedtime).

Keep 'm coming!

Reply Score: 1

Beta me up!
by fsolerio on Thu 16th Apr 2009 22:15 UTC
fsolerio
Member since:
2009-04-16

I'd love to be in Grape beta testing.

Reply Score: 1

EMAIL ADDRESS!
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 16th Apr 2009 22:23 UTC
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

By the way, I do require an email address. If you have no valid email address, you're out of luck.

Reply Score: 1

beta
by jemmyw on Thu 16th Apr 2009 22:43 UTC
jemmyw
Member since:
2009-02-06

I'd love to try this out

Reply Score: 1

Looks nice
by dragossh on Thu 16th Apr 2009 22:50 UTC
dragossh
Member since:
2008-12-16

I'd love to play with this, sounds promising. Count me up too.

Reply Score: 1

Interesting
by galaxstar on Thu 16th Apr 2009 23:32 UTC
galaxstar
Member since:
2008-07-12

The video on their website looks promising. I'm definitely interested in the beta

Reply Score: 1

beta please
by atompowered on Thu 16th Apr 2009 23:32 UTC
atompowered
Member since:
2009-04-16

I'm also interested in the beta

Reply Score: 1

RE: beta please
by atompowered on Mon 20th Apr 2009 03:38 UTC in reply to "beta please"
atompowered Member since:
2009-04-16

I'm in the first 50, but I didn't receive an invite. Did I miss something?

Reply Score: 1

I want!
by tijuana on Thu 16th Apr 2009 23:49 UTC
tijuana
Member since:
2009-04-16

I want a grape beta invite!

grape@tijuana.otherinbox.com

regards!

Reply Score: 1

I'd try it :)
by Gryzor on Thu 16th Apr 2009 23:58 UTC
Gryzor
Member since:
2005-07-03

Looks interesting. At least is seems different. ;)

Reply Score: 2

Comment by merkoth
by merkoth on Fri 17th Apr 2009 00:01 UTC
merkoth
Member since:
2006-09-22

Looks interesting, it's a shame I don't have a Mac though.

Reply Score: 2

great
by nrgexplosion on Fri 17th Apr 2009 00:22 UTC
nrgexplosion
Member since:
2009-04-17

Considering my level of clutter this may be a new paradigm, I would definitely love to test it.

Reply Score: 1

Hmm
by Savior on Fri 17th Apr 2009 00:44 UTC
Savior
Member since:
2006-09-02

The in-place, resizeable preview is very cool, but aside from that, I fail to see the point. Why would anyone keep a bunch of unrelated photos / videos on his or her desktop? Most desktops I've seen are either empty (like mine), or full of links to programs (most in Windows).

Granted, the search box is a good idea in the latter case as well. I'm just wondering if the same can be achieved by a folder view on KDE4. Is the folder view searchable?

Edited 2009-04-17 00:44 UTC

Reply Score: 1

I'm game,
by jimbofluffy on Fri 17th Apr 2009 00:46 UTC
jimbofluffy
Member since:
2008-07-15

I have a Mac to try it on. Thanks.

Reply Score: 1

beta please
by smc100 on Fri 17th Apr 2009 01:20 UTC
smc100
Member since:
2009-04-17

I would like to try the beta out. Thankyou

Reply Score: 1

oooh pretty
by SnowBuddha on Fri 17th Apr 2009 01:45 UTC
SnowBuddha
Member since:
2009-04-17

Look there, I finally registered at osnews to request a beta invite. Please? It looks real purty.

Reply Score: 1

Yes please
by jimaz on Fri 17th Apr 2009 02:32 UTC
jimaz
Member since:
2006-03-14

I'd love to beta-test it - and I do have a Mac ;)

Jim

Reply Score: 1

Comment by mith
by mith on Fri 17th Apr 2009 02:38 UTC
mith
Member since:
2007-03-15

I would love to be in the beta too.

Seems like a great application.

Reply Score: 1

doing good
by transputer_guy on Fri 17th Apr 2009 03:06 UTC
transputer_guy
Member since:
2005-07-08

I saw the original movie demo when the story broke last year and was quite impressed with the vision too. Glad to see a developer has taken up the challenge of building it, so add me to the beta list please.

As a user of OSX, Windows, Ubuntu and also BeOS, I have more or less given up on any real progress in UIs that force modality at every single turn. Apple used to be all about no modality, but really all the current OSes are as bad as each other but in very different respects.

Of course one should have continuous zoom control over all objects in ones possession, real or virtual. I regard a desktop as nothing more than a database of objects with windows/folders or other tools used to organize and view them by media type, name, size, content or any criteria one could think of and the OS should remember what the user wants it to remember and forget what they don't need to keep. We currently got the exact reverse of this.

Any half decent CAD program that can view chips, machine designs, buildings, cities or whatever has capabilities that no mere mortal will ever see in current OSes but Grape gives a glimpse of that and their UIs are often quite easy to use. CPUs have had more than enough power to do this 2d/3d rendering since FPUs were integrated too, but the UI pros locked us all up in the 80s desktop theme. All we get now is endless tinkering of trivial theme issues, wobbly this, animated that.

Look forward to seeing this puppy fly!

Reply Score: 3

RE: doing good
by JonathanBThompson on Fri 17th Apr 2009 06:09 UTC in reply to "doing good"
JonathanBThompson Member since:
2006-05-26

Err, last I checked, CAD programs required an underlying OS for them to run: therefore, they can only do as much as the underlying OS, and that's how I remember things being when I was employed writing 3D CAD software. Is there a distinct CAD system that is its own entire OS that I haven't heard of before now? If so, I'd certainly like to know ;)

That being said, Grape is also limited by the underlying OS: nothing in the Mac OS X GUI absolutely requires modality: the OS-provided GUI shell applications often have modality designed and implemented in them, for whatever reasons they saw fit, whether that's because they thought it was the most correct way to apply things for what it acts on, or sheer laziness. Pages demonstrates in many cases that modality is not an absolute of the underlying OS in terms of what it is capable of doing: at best, one can only surmise that the developers of the native desktop applications that come with OS X were developed by people that couldn't be bothered to go out of their way to make them modeless, where it may have actually made sense for them to be modeless.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: doing good
by transputer_guy on Fri 17th Apr 2009 07:48 UTC in reply to "RE: doing good"
transputer_guy Member since:
2005-07-08

I was thinking of Calma GDS and some others of the 80s. Of course there was still an OS underneath, but it was merged somewhat with the CAD command set. No other apps came with these beasties. My employer also built its own hardware just to run some CAD too, as did others. Also Lisp was often used in CAD work, it was it's own OS if I remember right.

Anyhow the point I make is that Grape looks like an outside the box desktop replacement for Finder but not ready to replace it and likely never could, but still useful as an alternative way of browsing whatever mime types it can support. If you have a GUI kit that supports all of the file types you want to manage, then it becomes easier to prototype something like this. Perhaps Qt could too.

While current OSes allow one to change the zoom scale of window icons to some degree or almost no degree, they are too clumsy to bother with and hopelessly modal, I have given up spatial for plain detail lists, not that I ever wanted to do that. The fact that they all moved to using tons of white space for stuff like side panels just tisses me more.

One thing CAD programs do is to puts lots of tools in front of the user with quick access to tool changes, something Apple has long put down, forcing us into the one button menu bar roundtrips model better suited for ...... At least we still got 2 buttons. As an engineer I miss having direct control of my objects.

Reply Score: 3

Beta
by brother bloat on Fri 17th Apr 2009 03:11 UTC
brother bloat
Member since:
2005-07-06

This looks great! Please send me a beta invite as well.

Reply Score: 1

Get your stinkin' paws off ...
by MacTO on Fri 17th Apr 2009 03:23 UTC
MacTO
Member since:
2006-09-21

... my regimented desktop of 32x32 icons that are arranged according to their rank and division, you damned dirty code monkeys!

More seriously though: sounds like a cool idea. Wish you luck with it. But I will reserve the right to use the tried and true.

Reply Score: 2

another note
by transputer_guy on Fri 17th Apr 2009 03:25 UTC
transputer_guy
Member since:
2005-07-08

I'll assume the developer has built Grape on the Cocoa APIs which is fair enough.

But I'll just mention that the Qt4.4 platform which is cross platform also includes classes or widgets that do 2d zoomable rotatable collection spaces but they come inside a window view so not Grape like. Perhaps Qt might also be capable of implementing portable desktops that look more like Grape and less like KDE or Finder.

Reply Score: 2

RE: another note
by tyrione on Fri 17th Apr 2009 21:15 UTC in reply to "another note"
tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

I'll assume the developer has built Grape on the Cocoa APIs which is fair enough.

But I'll just mention that the Qt4.4 platform which is cross platform also includes classes or widgets that do 2d zoomable rotatable collection spaces but they come inside a window view so not Grape like. Perhaps Qt might also be capable of implementing portable desktops that look more like Grape and less like KDE or Finder.


Qt 4.5 is still quite a ways away from the Cocoa APIs. It's nice that Cocoa interfaces were added to Qt4.5 but pretty interfaces are just the top of the iceberg of what makes up Cocoa.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: another note
by transputer_guy on Fri 17th Apr 2009 22:33 UTC in reply to "RE: another note"
transputer_guy Member since:
2005-07-08

You would have to be a developer of Cocoa for awhile to appreciate everything it has to offer and I admit I haven't and have no interest to ever be limited to one platform API or its special language. I prefer to remain platform agnostic and use cross platform tools where possible. Don't even care if they don't conform to the platforms guidelines as long as they are self consistent.

Even with Qt having less mass than Cocoa, it still has more than enough to build cross platform desktops far more interesting than what I saw in KDE3. I am investing my energy there for now.

One example of what I am thinking about follows.

Suppose in a better designed desktop, you group select 2 or more folders that you know or believe to contain the same duplicate content or substantially the same or overlapping in file content to a very deep level. You could go find a dedupe type of app and run that to remove dupes, but shouldn't the desktop already have ways to highlight that 2 files or folders are the same or how similar they are. Then offer the possibility to replace all redundant dupes with 1st class references. In fact multiple references to the same file should be much better managed too with tools for navigating between any instance to any other instance to same file or object. These ideas are usually built into CAD tools where all instances of an object are equal to begin with.

In the real world we use our senses to tell us alot about the objects in front of us with out having to get special tools to tell us what we can already judge with senses fairly well. We get the tools out when out senses are not precise enough. In desktops, we mostly have to use special apps for every little task because the OS can not be bothered to tell us even rudimentary things about relations of things. None of this thinking requires Cocoa to build it, maybe if you want to bling it to death.

I am reminded of that StarTrek NG episode where the shy engineer got his IQ boosted by alien influence. No longer was the Enterprise computer UI good enough for him, it became so frustrating he had to go to the Holodeck and instruct the dumb computer how to build the UI he needed in order to accomplish his immediate task. Unfortunately we can't really do that with the desktops we have unless we can code, but that is so tedious.

Anyway I can go look at the beta now.

Reply Score: 2

Yeah!
by Chicken Blood on Fri 17th Apr 2009 03:50 UTC
Chicken Blood
Member since:
2005-12-21

Gimmee a copy, this looks proper bo' !

Reply Score: 2

Comment by me
by pandronic on Fri 17th Apr 2009 06:06 UTC
pandronic
Member since:
2006-05-18

Beta access, please? Thanks.

Grape sure looks nice, but I believe it wouldn't hurt to be able to turn on/off the filenames. I imagine it would be pretty hard to distinguish between two text files based on a tiny preview. Sure, you could zoom in and actually see the content, but what if you have two very similar but not identical files?

Reply Score: 2

Looks intriguing
by dimitrij on Fri 17th Apr 2009 06:35 UTC
dimitrij
Member since:
2009-04-17

That's what desktop/stacks should look like. I kindly ask for beta licence. Thanks!

Reply Score: 1

ooo beta-access
by alpayerturkmen on Fri 17th Apr 2009 06:55 UTC
alpayerturkmen
Member since:
2008-12-25

I have already seen this and went to their page for beta but unfortunately haven't heard from them since.

It would be great to try this new technology and maybe write a blog post about it.

Reply Score: 1

Beta access too please.
by andy_js on Fri 17th Apr 2009 07:07 UTC
andy_js
Member since:
2008-02-29

I just got a Dual 1.42ghz PowerMac G4 and this would be cool.

Reply Score: 1

Seems interesting...
by looncraz on Fri 17th Apr 2009 07:32 UTC
looncraz
Member since:
2005-07-24

Seems like a very interesting idea indeed. No hardware here with which to test, though I could probably emulate.

I hope files of different types can be grouped together without creating a folder.

One, as of yet unimplemented, feature of my yet-to-be-released LoonTracker ( for Haiku ) is file grouping - even naming of groups if you desire. The idea is to select various files/folders of any type, right click on the group, then click something akin to "Create Group."

From then on the group could be manipulated as a whole in various ways. Files and folders need to be capable of being in more than one group, but I am still stuck on my choices for handling this scenario - if anyone has an idea, I'd LOVE to hear it.

On the whole it sounds interesting, a beta invite would be nice - I can always find a way to get into whatever version of MacOS I need ;-).

--The loon


EDIT: stupid me ending sentences with propositions...

Edited 2009-04-17 07:33 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Beta Access Please
by chr1skearney on Fri 17th Apr 2009 07:51 UTC
chr1skearney
Member since:
2006-03-20

I would like beta access ;)

Reply Score: 1

Beta invite
by mrfabbri on Fri 17th Apr 2009 07:52 UTC
mrfabbri
Member since:
2009-04-17

I'd like to try out Grape, it looks very promising and interesting. Please, send me an invite at mrfabbri@gmail.com .

Reply Score: 1

count me in
by witold.bolt on Fri 17th Apr 2009 07:53 UTC
witold.bolt
Member since:
2009-04-17

I'd like to give it a try as a beta test...

Reply Score: 1

Great Concept
by inetman on Fri 17th Apr 2009 07:56 UTC
inetman
Member since:
2006-05-30

This Sounds very pomising, I'd Love to have Beta Access!

Regards
Patrick

Reply Score: 1

Comment by boyfarrell
by boyfarrell on Fri 17th Apr 2009 08:02 UTC
boyfarrell
Member since:
2008-12-11

Would also love to try this out!

Reply Score: 1

hmmm
by Darkness on Fri 17th Apr 2009 08:02 UTC
Darkness
Member since:
2005-08-27

Even though the idea is not bad, it is still not very usefull if it is only some kind of desktop alternative.
My desktop is 99.9% of the time not visible and I am not going to minimize all applications to just go play with the stuff on the desktop.

As Thom pointed out, when they integrate this with finder windows or for windows alternatives in windows explorer, then it might be a little more usefull but I am not admiring the nice stuff on my desktop all day. Work needs to be done ;-)

Reply Score: 1

oooh.
by Tommie_Hammr on Fri 17th Apr 2009 08:04 UTC
Tommie_Hammr
Member since:
2009-04-17

This looks pretty cool and i'd love to play with the beta.

Reply Score: 1

yes please
by REM2000 on Fri 17th Apr 2009 08:08 UTC
REM2000
Member since:
2006-07-25

i would be interested in the beta test.

Thanks

Reply Score: 2

Comment by caspy7
by caspy7 on Fri 17th Apr 2009 08:15 UTC
caspy7
Member since:
2009-04-17

I would very much like beta access!

Reply Score: 1

nice
by kometen on Fri 17th Apr 2009 08:16 UTC
kometen
Member since:
2007-04-22

Nice

Reply Score: 1

would love beta access
by siraf72 on Fri 17th Apr 2009 08:21 UTC
siraf72
Member since:
2006-02-22

If its still offered, would love to try this.

Fanks...

Reply Score: 1

damnit! 51st
by hyriand on Fri 17th Apr 2009 08:23 UTC
hyriand
Member since:
2006-04-03

just my luck.

Reply Score: 1

RE: damnit! 51st
by Laurence on Fri 17th Apr 2009 08:48 UTC in reply to "damnit! 51st"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

just my luck.


+1 funny

(I was thinking the same when I opened OSNews)


Back on topic, this project does look good

Reply Score: 2

opensource version
by Tanner on Fri 17th Apr 2009 11:44 UTC
Tanner
Member since:
2005-07-06

I think it wouldn't take much to implement such thing for Linux, if a team of python coders start doing it.. using gtk or the compiz plugin framework..

Reply Score: 1

RE: opensource version
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Fri 17th Apr 2009 14:52 UTC in reply to "opensource version"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Depends on your definition of "much". I don't have too much in depth knowledge of the compiz plugin, but I know the Mac has the core image api which makes it simple to do a lot of cool image manipulation tasks.

Edited 2009-04-17 14:53 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Nice idea
by StephenBeDoper on Fri 17th Apr 2009 15:31 UTC
StephenBeDoper
Member since:
2005-07-06

That video looks quite slick. Maybe longer-term they could combine it with some Expose-like functionality - so that you could iconify running applications and manage them the same way (E.g, drag icons to the trash to close an application, or use drag-and-drop to move multiple icons to another virtual desktop, etc).

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Shane
by Shane on Fri 17th Apr 2009 16:48 UTC
Shane
Member since:
2005-07-06

Why is it a private beta now? I downloaded this a few days ago from their website.

Reply Score: 1

Lowfat
by abraxas on Sat 18th Apr 2009 13:45 UTC
abraxas
Member since:
2005-07-07

This looks a lot like the Lowfat demo on Linux from a few years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkrM4ymkiDo

Reply Score: 2

Grape Beta access
by speedytangent on Mon 20th Apr 2009 04:49 UTC
speedytangent
Member since:
2008-08-06

Its sounds to be good Idea, i tried BumpTop and realdesk too... so give me beta access ...
that would be nice to find out which one is the best...

Reply Score: 1

RE: Grape Beta access
by speedytangent on Tue 21st Apr 2009 07:50 UTC in reply to "Grape Beta access"
speedytangent Member since:
2008-08-06

Still did not receive any invitation....

Please Mr Admin... Im waiting Sir..... ;) )

Reply Score: 1