Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 15th Jun 2009 18:14 UTC
Web 2.0 Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Flickr. All demon spawn from Web 2.0, and we all love to make fun of these websites and the services they provide. However, here in the West, where everything is at arm's length and democracy is something we do not remember fighting for, it's easy to forget that what looks silly and useless to us, can be of the utmost importance somewhere else in the world. Update: I've been informed that the first casualty has fallen at the hands of armed government supporters. Hundreds of thousands of people are now on the streets all over Iran. More updates inside.
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The fog of twittering
by kragil on Mon 15th Jun 2009 19:10 UTC
kragil
Member since:
2006-01-04

I think there is something rotten in the state of Iran.

That said, I don't give too much credence to user generated "news".

One year ago if one would have trusted Digg to predict the outcome of the presidential elections Ron Paul would have been the certain winner.

We like to live in a black and white world, but the world is really colourful.

Reply Score: 5

RE: The fog of twittering
by DigitalAxis on Mon 15th Jun 2009 20:33 UTC in reply to "The fog of twittering"
DigitalAxis Member since:
2005-08-28

I'm sure that's what the official Iranian media are claiming here: a bunch of people discontented because they didn't get what they want...

By the same token, though... We can laugh at the Ron Paul supporters, but do we want to erase evidence of their existence entirely?

Reply Score: 2

RE: The fog of twittering
by modmans2ndcoming on Tue 16th Jun 2009 15:18 UTC in reply to "The fog of twittering"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

that is why you should only pay attention to those who are posting pictures and video. of the things they say.

Reply Score: 2

Excellent news on the osnews!
by Monotheist on Mon 15th Jun 2009 19:13 UTC
Monotheist
Member since:
2009-06-15

Excellent news on the osnews!

Reply Score: 2

True
by emilsedgh on Mon 15th Jun 2009 19:23 UTC
emilsedgh
Member since:
2007-06-21

Here in Iran the situation is a little bit more complicated than just using these services.

Goverment is censoring many websites in Iran.They started it with the excuse of blocking non-islamic websites but they used it to block every single website, or weblog who critisizes the goverment (not only opposition) in the past few years.

Twitter and facebook has been block and unblocked several times in the past few weeks.

On the other hand, the internet has been seriousely slow in the past few days too.

Also there is a balatarin.com which is a digg-like website for persian users.They have been fights between balatarin users and goverment-dependant websites.

Balatarin users tried DOS attacking the farsnews.com (which is a goverment fan, no-mather-what) and farsnews started a 'light' version to decrease the pressure on servers.In the response, farsnews included hidden iframes to balatarin so that all hits to farsnews will have a hit on balatarin.
(Balatarin was down for a few hours but owners asked for donations to get news servers and they got the neccessary money and are back again)

Unfortunately, that doest stop here.Goverment is the only owner of TV and Radio.So they have total control on it.

SMS services of all three cell phone operators has been disabled since friday (when counting of votes begun).

Also whole cell phone service was down for almost a day too.

Edit: I forgot to mention that having sattelite tv's in iran is illegal, but almost everyone has them.Goverment tries to send 'noise' on the frequencies of the unwanted channels.Currently main opposition channels are not working in some parts of Tehran, including BBC Persian and Voice Of America (Persian).

So there is a media fight here.

Edited 2009-06-15 19:28 UTC

Reply Score: 6

RE: True
by oelewapperke on Mon 15th Jun 2009 22:02 UTC in reply to "True"
oelewapperke Member since:
2006-10-16

Generally if politicians care more about killing Jews than ... well anything, really, they're hiding something.

Fortunately that seems to be that Iran's tired of rhetoric of killing Jews masking 300%+ inflation rates.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: True
by blitze on Thu 18th Jun 2009 03:06 UTC in reply to "RE: True"
blitze Member since:
2006-09-15

Funny how you state that Iran's gov is only concerned with killing Jews when Iran has the largest *** Population outside of Israel and probably the largest Semitic *** Population in the world. If you bothered to dig a little into the Presidents transcripts instead of relying on MSM info what was being called for was the end to Israel being purely a *** State and the end of Zionism. Nothing what so ever with the death of *** people.

As for the Iranian elections and their results - are we much better off with our democratic Western Gov's? How many of you supported the Wars that are being waged by the COW? How about those young service personel being sacrificed on the alter of Big Business interests? When you have an election in USA/UK/Australia and have only 2 parties to really choose from and there is nothing seperating them from each other policy wise is that Democracy? How about when those parties represent nothing of public interest and only Big Business stepping on Citizens Rights and the Environment as a result?

Who are we in the West to point fingers? I also find it interesting that the Washington Post's own polling in Iran showed a similar result to what occured in the election. Time for the West to stop stomping on other countries an dpeoples rights in the name of their own interests and just leave the world to itself. As for what is show in the MSM - open your eyes and use your brain. You are not getting a true and real account of news and events.

Is Iran perfect - no but nor are we and to state otherwise is true hypocracy. Funny how Iran has a lot of Oil and Gass Reserves and that the US$ is being migrated away by the large up and coming econimic powers i.e. BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India and China).

Reply Score: 2

We had something similar in 2001
by RavinRay on Tue 16th Jun 2009 00:27 UTC in reply to "True"
RavinRay Member since:
2005-11-26

When the former president of the Philippines, Joseph Estrada, was being accused by a former friend and drinking/gambling buddy of improper conduct involving money, the abrupt termination of the senate hearing of that friend triggered mass street protests that culminated in "EDSA 2" or "People Power 2". Text messages were passed like brushfire all over the country telling people where to assemble. It reached a high point in the mass rally (which I attended the day before Estrada vacated the presidency) at the corner of two highways where a shrine and church were erected to commemorate the first People Power movement of 1986 to oust dictator Ferdinand Marcos. The local cellsites were so saturated with messages that the signal strength went down.

I'm curious to see how the situation in Iran will play out. I can only hope it is resolved to the benefit of the people.

PS Being from a non-Western country, I disagree with the occasional negative comments on articles about hobbyist OSes (like ReactOS), claiming them as supposedly impractical and useless. Maybe for those posters, but not for us who live in different conditions. It would do well to remind them that there are OSnews readers like me.

Reply Score: 2

v not thoms personal blog
by ntpb on Mon 15th Jun 2009 19:41 UTC
RE: not thoms personal blog
by fretinator on Mon 15th Jun 2009 19:48 UTC in reply to "not thoms personal blog"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

howdelera, you are one brainwashed puppy. put this crap opinion piece on your blog and save us.


An article about how Web 2.0 apps are being used by the people in Iran - why in the world wouldn't we want to hear about this? This may come as a shock, but sometimes the Tech world intersects with the Real world.

Reply Score: 3

RE: not thoms personal blog
by averycfay on Mon 15th Jun 2009 19:49 UTC in reply to "not thoms personal blog"
averycfay Member since:
2005-08-29

TBH, this is the first piece on osnews that has interested me in a few weeks. Also, I think the article is balanced and well written.

Only thing left out: go to search.twitter.com and search for #iranelection to follow twitter coverage.

Edited 2009-06-15 19:51 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: not thoms personal blog
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 15th Jun 2009 20:01 UTC in reply to "RE: not thoms personal blog"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Only thing left out: go to search.twitter.com and search for #iranelection to follow twitter coverage.


It's in there, under the "Twitter" link. Thanks though, because some might've missed it.

Reply Score: 1

RE: not thoms personal blog
by Bobthearch on Tue 16th Jun 2009 02:31 UTC in reply to "not thoms personal blog"
Bobthearch Member since:
2006-01-27

The topic is interesting and the article well-written. But since it's not Operating System news, I'd rather see this sort of stuff used as Page 2 filler.

Reply Score: 2

Thanks for the article
by ralph on Mon 15th Jun 2009 20:21 UTC
ralph
Member since:
2005-07-10

It is indeed fascinating to follow what his happening in Iran right now and new media seems to play a key role here.

Twitter, which I always found silly before, seems to really play an important part for the people in Iran and it's also one of the best ways to get first hand accounts of what is going on in Iran.

All in all blogs and twitter seem to be doing a much better job at covering the situation than much of the mainstream media. At least here in Germany, TV coverage is awful, to put it mildly, and international news channels like CNN are doing a terrible job.

For anyone who is interested, here are some sites I found worth following about the situation in Iran:
http://niacblog.wordpress.com/
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/13/iran-demonstrations-viole_...

http://twitter.com/TehranBureau/
http://twitter.com/iranelection09
http://twitter.com/StopAhmadi

Reply Score: 3

RE: Thanks for the article
by ssa2204 on Mon 15th Jun 2009 21:13 UTC in reply to "Thanks for the article"
ssa2204 Member since:
2006-04-22

It is indeed fascinating to follow what his happening in Iran right now and new media seems to play a key role here.

Twitter, which I always found silly before, seems to really play an important part for the people in Iran and it's also one of the best ways to get first hand accounts of what is going on in Iran.

All in all blogs and twitter seem to be doing a much better job at covering the situation than much of the mainstream media. At least here in Germany, TV coverage is awful, to put it mildly, and international news channels like CNN are doing a terrible job.

For anyone who is interested, here are some sites I found worth following about the situation in Iran:
http://niacblog.wordpress.com/
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/13/iran-demonstrations-viole_...

http://twitter.com/TehranBureau/
http://twitter.com/iranelection09
http://twitter.com/StopAhmadi


Just out of coincidence I happened to have gone over to Andrew Sullivan's site earlier just to see if he had written anything on the healthcare debate, and was surprised it was down due to increased traffic (although DOS was initially suspected). Huffingtonpost seems to be one of the few outlets truly covering this as extensively as they have. CNN, MSNBC, etc. all seem to have for most of yesterday and today treated this as a very small and insignificant event (at least not in proportion to the significance this has for the whole world!)

This is really an amazing event to watch and follow, because we simply have absolutely no idea where this could lead. Those of us who followed the initial days of the attempted August coup in the Soviet Union NEVER EVER would have thought this would lead to the dissolution of the entire Soviet Union. Then again, in China at Tiananmen Square many thought that change was going to come, that it was inevitable.

No matter what, Iran will never be the same. The demographics, much like here in the U.S., have shifted in favor of the young.

p.s. Doesn't news like this really make these lame techie arguments seem so childish and trivial?

Reply Score: 3

Time's poor taste.
by AlexandreAM on Mon 15th Jun 2009 21:56 UTC
AlexandreAM
Member since:
2006-02-06

Ok, I know this comment is slightly off-topic and may be seen as some as silly. But I've been following the situation for some long hours now and I've read many good comments on it and I don't think I can add much to a discussion on the theme.

On the other hand, reading the Time's article (linked by Thom's post, though I don't blame him) and following a link for "Pictures of Iran's presidential elections" really gave me a glimpse of Time's incredibly poor taste.

Without any warning or any disclaimer, the very first picture is that of a dead man, shot, lying on the sidewalk covered in blood. The second isn't much better, a man showing his injured arm, also covered in blood.

Is that what journalism has become for Time? I'm not overly-sensitive or anything like that, but there used to be some standards for this kind of information. To inform the reader of strong material being displayed, to warn those who might feel offended by it.


It's just saddening to see their extremely poor taste.

[/rant]

Reply Score: 1

RE: Time's poor taste.
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 15th Jun 2009 21:59 UTC in reply to "Time's poor taste."
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Truth hurts.

I don't see this as a problem. This is what the real world is like, outside of western comfort zones with universal remotes and 60" plasma displays.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Time's poor taste.
by AlexandreAM on Mon 15th Jun 2009 22:05 UTC in reply to "RE: Time's poor taste."
AlexandreAM Member since:
2006-02-06

I'm sure it does. I live in a country that was under a military dictatorship during 20 years.

And as I stated before, it's not about the images. I don't quite care much about those, but I do care about giving the viewer the CHOICE of not staring at a dead man covered in blood if they don't want to.

EDIT: I don't know if I made this point clear: I'm not advocating that the images shouldn't be there. Just saying that they should TELL the viewer that there are strong images ahead. They already open a pre-loadin screen that I have to click to start the slide show, why the hell can't they warn the viewerbefore he clicks to start?

Edited 2009-06-15 22:08 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Time's poor taste.
by testman on Wed 17th Jun 2009 13:28 UTC in reply to "RE: Time's poor taste."
testman Member since:
2007-10-15

Truth hurts.

I don't see this as a problem. This is what the real world is like, outside of western comfort zones with universal remotes and 60" plasma displays.

The "real world" is something that a vast majority of people in the first-world spend-big to ignore. Having it put in front of them risks forcing them to consider that their own lives may not be as stable as they imagined—that one day, that it may be their face on someone's TV standing in the disaster of what was once their home.

Would you like fries with that?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Time's poor taste.
by averycfay on Mon 15th Jun 2009 22:34 UTC in reply to "Time's poor taste."
averycfay Member since:
2005-08-29

I'm fairly sure that was a mixup on Time's part. The "5 reasons" article and the photo gallery were posted yesterday. The gallery was subsequently updated with the bloody photos today. New links from other time articles to that photo gallery include warnings about graphic photos. The old article doesn't have the same because the original gallery wasn't particularly graphic.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Time's poor taste.
by AlexandreAM on Mon 15th Jun 2009 22:40 UTC in reply to "RE: Time's poor taste."
AlexandreAM Member since:
2006-02-06

Thanks for the information. Considering that, even though they could have been a little bit more careful, I have to admit they're hardly as bad as I thought at first.

Looks like a fair mistake, nothing more, then.

Reply Score: 2

2 lessons
by averycfay on Mon 15th Jun 2009 22:44 UTC
averycfay
Member since:
2005-08-29

There are actually 2 lessons about the media that you can draw from this.

1.) New internet media is trumping old media. This is the point of the article and it's pretty much true. While CNN was playing reruns of crappy larry king interviews, huff post + andrew sullivan were basically around-the-clock live blogging what was happening using sources like twitter/youtube/etc.

2.) The flip side is that some old media will really never die. The reporting coming from the new york times, TIME magazine, and channel4 news in the uk has been nothing short of excellent. Each of those organizations have multiple reporters on the ground in Tehran right now. First-hand accounts and cell phone videos are useful and exciting, but there's no way they replace real comprehensive journalism.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by MamiyaOtaru
by MamiyaOtaru on Tue 16th Jun 2009 00:04 UTC
MamiyaOtaru
Member since:
2005-11-11

The scope of Ahmadinejad's claimed victory is suspicious, sure, but I'm not entirely convinced he didn't win.

Like someone mentioned earlier, if you were on the net you might have assumed Ron Paul was going to win. If you were on the net in 2004, you would have thought Bush had no chance. All the vocal internet users and news sites were pushing Kerry. But enough people were swayed by arguments to fear or religion or whatever that Bush won.

It could be the same with Ahmadinejad. Who are we most likely to be hearing from through Twitter and Facebook? The young, the tech savvy, the university educated. Those who speak English or French or whatever. We are most likely to be hearing from those who oppose Ahmadinejad. Could it be that we are hearing from the Iranian version of the Ron Paul supporters?

Obviously there are a lot of them, but as with Kerry supporters in '04, are they a majority? If not, they got the result democracy mandates, for better or worse.

Mousavi is supported by the Rafsanjanis, who give off a more elitist vibe. Ahmadinejad is a man of the people (and IIRC the first non cleric to be president), living in his small apartment which has some appeal to the masses. I really wouldn't be surprised if there was a non-twittering, conservative majority that voted for him again.

On the other hand, the reaction to their protests is the opposite of what one would hope for in a functioning democracy. If he really did win, Ahmadinejad should have no problem letting people address their perceived grievances, double check results, etc. The reaction to the protests has been typical totalitarianism, which does remove some credibility from Ahmadinejad's proclaimed victory. What a mess.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Tue 16th Jun 2009 03:04 UTC
kaiwai
Member since:
2005-07-06

I think the thing people are ignoring is this small little fact; regardless of who gets the 'reigns of power' - their influence over key policy decisions is next to zero. These key policy decisions such as foreign policy are controlled by Ali Hoseyni Khāmene’i and the cadre of clerics which rule over Iran.

One also must remember that the opposition leader labelled as a 'reformer' was the one who set off Iran's nuclear programme, he is socially conservative so don't expect an reforms when it comes to social policy, and given his past it is doubtful he'll be willing to negotiate on the nuclear issue.

But with that being said, one has to stand back and realise that there is a split within Iran; there are Clerics both now and in the past who oppose the Iranian regime, specifically, the role of clerics in the current setup. IIRC there was a cleric who in the 80s outwardly spoke against Ayatollah Ruhollah Musavi Khomeini but found his life came to a premature end.

As for Iran in the future; I don't think things are going to get better until there is a bloody revolution followed by a public trial of all those clerics and their supporters for treason. 1200 years ago Persia was invaded by Muslims, and Islam was collectively rammed down their throat - too bad Khosrau didn't repell that awful uncivilised Allahu Ackbar when the chance was given.

Edited 2009-06-16 03:06 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by kaiwai
by modmans2ndcoming on Tue 16th Jun 2009 15:40 UTC in reply to "Comment by kaiwai"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

One thing you are not thinking about... The protesters feel that they have been wronged by their government. This might easily spin out of control of the guardian council and they might find themselves fleeing for their lives.

Now.. back to likely reality, While the president and parliament need their laws "blessed" by the supreme leader for any legislation that they pass, a reform president and parliament decide what legislation is passed and is sent up to the supreme leader.

The choice of who sits in the seat as Supreme leader is also left up to a group of electors that the people vote on. The electors then choose a Supreme Leader from the Guardian Council. So, while the people don't have as much influence or rights in their country as they do in other republics, reformers can have a positive affect on the lives of the people.

Reply Score: 2

This is what people want
by Starlon on Tue 16th Jun 2009 06:48 UTC
Starlon
Member since:
2009-06-16

Some people will tell you democracy is not just a stupid idea, but that it's actually dangerous. Friends, I want to highlight Iran's opposition to basic human rights. First order of democracy is human rights.

Reply Score: 1

RE: This is what people want
by modmans2ndcoming on Tue 16th Jun 2009 15:46 UTC in reply to "This is what people want"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

Iran has "democracy" They are a democratic republic, just like the US. The problem is that the rights of the people were never codified and their parliament is not co-equal to the Guardian Council or the Supreme Leader so the voice of the people cannot protect the rights of the people like it does in other democratic republics like the US, the UK, Germany, France, Japan, etc.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: This is what people want
by h3rman on Wed 17th Jun 2009 19:33 UTC in reply to "RE: This is what people want"
h3rman Member since:
2006-08-09

Iran has "democracy" They are a democratic republic, just like the US. The problem is that the rights of the people were never codified and their parliament is not co-equal to the Guardian Council or the Supreme Leader so the voice of the people cannot protect the rights of the people like it does in other democratic republics like the US, the UK, Germany, France, Japan, etc.


Actually, the difference isn't that great at all. In Iran, the ayatollahs more or less decide who the eligible candidates are. In the US, Wall Street bankers and the business elite (who, purely coincidentally, happen to control the mass media) decides who the eligible candidates are.

Has anybody considered the option that Ahmadinejad actually *is* still a popular president? Polls by mind you, American polling agencies showed that there was no direct evidence for election manipulation. US, Israel benefit from efforts to destabilise Iran, in various ways. The CIA or whatever name America's agents provocateurs go by these days, and the Mossad are definitely active there too.

Reply Score: 2

modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

polling in a country where you need to fear any comment that can be considered sedition is unreliable.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: This is what people want
by h3rman on Thu 18th Jun 2009 06:44 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: This is what people want"
h3rman Member since:
2006-08-09

Well no, Iran isn't North Korea in that respect.
As anybody who has ever been there can testify.

Reply Score: 2

My take...
by melkor on Fri 19th Jun 2009 03:12 UTC
melkor
Member since:
2006-12-16

I wouldn't put it past it that the US government (read: CIA) are politically interferring here. Pretty much like what happened in 1955. The US does not like the current guy in charge and will use and dirty tracks to try and discredit and get rid of him.

How am I to provide proof of my suspicions when organisations like the CIA act in an underhanded and secretive manner, leaving little or no evidence behind of their tampering?

Dave

Reply Score: 2