Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 15th Jul 2009 15:50 UTC, submitted by google_ninja
Windows "The latest version of Microsoft's flagship operating system, Windows 7, is available for pre-order in the UK. Amazon said that sales of Windows 7 in the first eight hours it was available outstripped those of Windows Vista's entire 17 week pre-order period."
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_VERY_ small supply
by kragil on Wed 15th Jul 2009 16:18 UTC
kragil
Member since:
2006-01-04

Amazon _GERMANY_ had 1500 "copies" .. for 82+ million people!
That supply lasted 7 minutes.

This is what I call "artifical shortage generation"(tm).

Quite pathetic if you ask me.

Reply Score: 4

RE: _VERY_ small supply
by Piranha on Wed 15th Jul 2009 17:07 UTC in reply to "_VERY_ small supply"
Piranha Member since:
2008-06-24

They're going to have to ramp up their copies then, since people will just start pirating it like candy if they "WANT" it that badly and can't get ahold of it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: _VERY_ small supply
by Doc Pain on Thu 16th Jul 2009 12:17 UTC in reply to "RE: _VERY_ small supply"
Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

They're going to have to ramp up their copies then, since people will just start pirating it like candy if they "WANT" it that badly and can't get ahold of it.


I can confirm this (to clarify: I am from Germany), because I know several people who are already using "Windows 7" as a pirated copy. That's absolutely common in Germany. People can't live without their expensive "professional" software, and because they don't care, they use pirated copies they "got from a friend" or that "a friend installed who is professional with computers". Of course, corporate users are not that keen on "Windows 7" because they want to keep their "good XP" as long as they can, and being scared by the rumours about "Vista" and "how bad it is" and it has "different pictures", they are just going to skip it, being forced to use "Windows 7" as long as their "good XP" doesn't get activated or supported anymore. (Sidenote to terminology: "pictures" refers to how a GUI looks like, like in "I want the same pictures at home as I have them at work.") Finally, they'll find a way to run their "good XP" for some time after MICROS~1's MS and ES ended, but soon, hardware won't support this anymore (no drivers).

Reply Score: 2

RE: _VERY_ small supply
by Hiev on Wed 15th Jul 2009 18:39 UTC in reply to "_VERY_ small supply"
Hiev Member since:
2005-09-27

for 82+ million people!

Why AMAZON germany would be prepared for 82 million+ people? That's a lot more then the German population.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: _VERY_ small supply
by fretinator on Wed 15th Jul 2009 19:03 UTC in reply to "RE: _VERY_ small supply"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

for 82+ million people! Why AMAZON germany would be prepared for 82 million+ people? That's a lot more then the German population.



A quick google came up with this for the population of Germany:

82,369,552 (2008)

What do you mean?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: _VERY_ small supply
by RogerBryce on Wed 15th Jul 2009 19:24 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: _VERY_ small supply"
RogerBryce Member since:
2008-07-07

Native German speakers are a lot more than the population of Germany.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: _VERY_ small supply
by fretinator on Wed 15th Jul 2009 19:52 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: _VERY_ small supply"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

I don't think Amazon German means the regular Amazon translated to German, but rather Amazon taylored to the country of Germany, but I could be wrong - it seems to be happening a lot these days!

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: _VERY_ small supply
by Hiev on Thu 16th Jul 2009 14:39 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: _VERY_ small supply"
Hiev Member since:
2005-09-27

Wow, I didn't know that.

That's a lot of people.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: _VERY_ small supply
by sbergman27 on Thu 16th Jul 2009 15:59 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: _VERY_ small supply"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

A quick google came up with this for the population of Germany: 82,369,552 (2008)

Indeed. Color me surprised. The population density of my own home countrym the USA, is 31/km2. The population density of Germany is 230/km2. Well over 7 times higher. I did not realize that there was *that* much difference. We in the US forget just how much *space* we have. Now imagine the effect that the sparse population density, and vast area of more or less homogeneous culture, language, etc. has upon our views of the world. It's easy to see how some of us might come to think that we *are* the world, and that "everyone else" is just foreigners.

Edit: Growing up in the 70s, I was alwats told that the we represented 5% of the world's population, but used 25% of the World's resources. It's interesting to note that using figures from the "Earth" and "USA" pages of Wikipedia, today we represent 4% of the worlds population, and use 20% of its habitable land area.

Edited 2009-07-16 16:10 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: _VERY_ small supply
by tyrione on Thu 16th Jul 2009 07:35 UTC in reply to "RE: _VERY_ small supply"
tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

for 82+ million people!

Why AMAZON germany would be prepared for 82 million+ people? That's a lot more then the German population.


Feeling witty now I bet.

Reply Score: 2

Anything
by JAlexoid on Wed 15th Jul 2009 20:38 UTC
JAlexoid
Member since:
2009-05-19

Given that Vista was such a big failure, anything would outstrip it.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Anything
by bugjacobs on Thu 16th Jul 2009 04:59 UTC in reply to "Anything"
bugjacobs Member since:
2009-01-03

Come to think of it Vista almost had to strip bare nekkid to sell ANYTHING ! :-P

Now I just wonder when/if Win7 is available for preorder in Norway .. It will be all of 5 copies for sale I guess. Considering we have 4,5 mill people..

Edited 2009-07-16 05:02 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Anything
by Shannara on Mon 20th Jul 2009 15:44 UTC in reply to "Anything"
Shannara Member since:
2005-07-06

Such a popular myth. Surprised you failed for it.

Reply Score: 1

I wonder how this will hurt MS...
by DrillSgt on Thu 16th Jul 2009 05:44 UTC
DrillSgt
Member since:
2005-12-02

FTA...

"Because of a recent European Commission anti-trust ruling, Windows 7's European version will not be integrated with Windows' Internet Explorer, meaning that a browser will have to be installed separately."

So, without a browser to begin with, seriously, how does one download another browser to install? Unless you know the FTP sites off the top of your head, you sure can't research them now can you. Of course if you know this ahead of time, which the average consumer will not, you can download it ahead of time and put it on a USB drive or something. The average consumer will just say what a horrible OS it is shipping without a browser. MS will get beat about the head and shoulders for not having a browser by default. Hell, why don't we all just switch to Linux now, since if the EU has it's way, MS will be out of business. Some may see that as a good thing, I don't, as then that leaves us with Apple as the monopoly. If Linux and other open source projects can fix the myriad of issues, I am sure people will happily use them.

Reply Score: 3

liamdawe Member since:
2006-07-04

Since when did a real average user actively go out to buy an operating system? Besides any good salesman will tell them it doesn't have a browser pre-installed, to not is just slack.

Reply Score: 1

DrillSgt Member since:
2005-12-02

Since when did a real average user actively go out to buy an operating system? Besides any good salesman will tell them it doesn't have a browser pre-installed, to not is just slack.


Well, I actually know quite a few. Then they take it into a shop for an upgrade by some twit with an MCSE that really doesn't even know how to install an OS but can read about them. As for the salesman, they would lie to their own Mother if they thought a sale would come of it, so you can expect them to be slack.

Reply Score: 2

liamdawe Member since:
2006-07-04

I don't have a single friend or know of anyone who would go out to buy an operation system, i am talking about average people here, the whole "to a user the UI is the operating system".

Also just a poke, i am a salesman and i wouldn't do anything for a sale, there isn't honestly many that would.

Reply Score: 1

DrillSgt Member since:
2005-12-02

I don't have a single friend or know of anyone who would go out to buy an operation system, i am talking about average people here, the whole "to a user the UI is the operating system".


My experience is opposite, as I know plenty of people like you describe that must have the "latest and greatest". They do buy operating systems.

Also just a poke, i am a salesman and i wouldn't do anything for a sale, there isn't honestly many that would.


No offense intended, though you must be one of the few and far between. Every sales person I know would do whatever it took to get that commission. Most retail sales people don't even have a clue about what they are selling, let alone be technical.

Reply Score: 2

r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

"Because of a recent European Commission anti-trust ruling, Windows 7's European version will not be integrated with Windows' Internet Explorer, meaning that a browser will have to be installed separately."

This is slightly misleading. It reads as MS being forced to remove IE from Windows 7. Truth is that MS removed IE from Windows 7 of their own accord. The EU was planning on having MS bundle competing browsers with Windows.

Since rumour has it that MS can't stand competition, they neutered Windows to avoid having to offer choice.

Reply Score: 2

Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

So, without a browser to begin with, seriously, how does one download another browser to install?


Simply by using the software installation tool brought by the system. And yes, I am aware that such thing doesn't exist in "Windows", so my answer is quite generic to operating systems except "Windows". If you already know which browser you want to use, you simply install it, for example by running "pkg_add -r opera", or you search through a list of available browsers for your OS by the means of the software management tool.


Unless you know the FTP sites off the top of your head, you sure can't research them now can you.


See example above. Of course, you have to know about how your OS works, and you have to know something about browsers because you can't see any screenshots or reviews before you installed it.

Of course if you know this ahead of time, which the average consumer will not, you can download it ahead of time and put it on a USB drive or something.


You are correct. My statement above does not apply to the averare "Windows" user.

The average consumer will just say what a horrible OS it is shipping without a browser.


Exactly. And this will be a reason to avoid this particular OS.

Hell, why don't we all just switch to Linux now, since if the EU has it's way, MS will be out of business.


Haha, very funny. :-) The EU's infrastructure, as well as the IT infrastructure of many (read: most) companies in Europe relies on "Windows".

If Linux and other open source projects can fix the myriad of issues, I am sure people will happily use them.


I don't think that's a task for Linux and FOSS, it's rather a task for education. In schools, pupils learn (haha) that there is nothing except "Windows". With this in mind, being confirmed by seeing "Windows" in offices, then you can't use anything else. PCs from the shop come with preinstalled "Windows", and "friends who are professionals in computers" are very quick handing you a pirated copy of "Windows". It is that simple, really.

Reply Score: 3

DrillSgt Member since:
2005-12-02

I don't think that's a task for Linux and FOSS, it's rather a task for education. In schools, pupils learn (haha) that there is nothing except "Windows". With this in mind, being confirmed by seeing "Windows" in offices, then you can't use anything else. PCs from the shop come with preinstalled "Windows", and "friends who are professionals in computers" are very quick handing you a pirated copy of "Windows". It is that simple, really.


I disagree here. It is a task for Linux and FOSS. The software the average person wants needs to be available for it, and in many cases there is not an equal equivalent. There are plenty of packages that may be "Good Enough" for those of us that know our way around things. It is funny that the people I have switched to Linux, my distro of choice being OpenSuse, with Kubuntu a second, all wanted Windows back within 2 weeks. So far is a total of 20 people. The primary reason? They can't find the software while out shopping that says it runs on Linux. Even after being showed the choices of software available in the repos. That is why it is a Linux/FOSS issue, not just education.

Reply Score: 2

Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

"I don't think that's a task for Linux and FOSS, it's rather a task for education. In schools, pupils learn (haha) that there is nothing except "Windows". With this in mind, being confirmed by seeing "Windows" in offices, then you can't use anything else. PCs from the shop come with preinstalled "Windows", and "friends who are professionals in computers" are very quick handing you a pirated copy of "Windows". It is that simple, really.


I disagree here.
"

Me too. :-) Let me explain:

It is a task for Linux and FOSS. The software the average person wants needs to be available for it, and in many cases there is not an equal equivalent.


What software - for the average user NB - do you mean? As far as my experiences go, the software for the average user is already available and has been for years in FOSS. And equivalents? I think they're already present.

There are plenty of packages that may be "Good Enough" for those of us that know our way around things.


Linux isn't "for geeks only" anymore.

It is funny that the people I have switched to Linux, my distro of choice being OpenSuse, with Kubuntu a second, all wanted Windows back within 2 weeks.


I can understand this, because I had similar experiences. But contradicting ones, too. For example, my parents are using Linux - without even knowing it! Sure, they have "different pictures" than they have at work, but that doesn't seem to be a problem. And guess what they are using - it's OpenSuSE with Gnome (because the german internationalization is better than in KDE). They don't want "Windows" back, because they realized that it made only problems that needed me to solve them (but I refused to do so).

So far is a total of 20 people. The primary reason? They can't find the software while out shopping that says it runs on Linux.


You're mentioning a valid point, but again, it's not Linux's or FOSS's task to help here. Linux, as well as software *for* Linux, should be made available the same way people are presented "Windows" and software for "Windows" - in pretty boxes, maybe with a litte manual with many pictures, available from a shop. I know that it is quite old fashioned to buy software from a shop, but that's the way many average users are getting software. Okay, there are those who download everything they can get from the web; and finally, they are those who host illegal sharing platforms, botns and other malware and spyware on their home PC. The web is the main source for programs for most average users, allthough it's often overcomplicated and old fashioned because - I mentioned it - Linux distributions usually come with a means to install, update, remove and (generally) manage software, and it's encouraged to use this excellent means.

A second point that comes into mind is "comes preinstalled with". PCs should be available with Linux preinstalled and preconfigured. Printers, multifunctional devices and cameras should have Linux drivers and Linux applications on the CDs and DVDs they come with. And manufacturers of PCs should support Linux the same way they support "Windows", with drivers and specifications, so distributors would be able to offer OEM systems with Linux that works out of the box.

Just for entertainment, we should take into mind that Linux should be pirated, so users can illegally download it, crack the protection and then install it on their home PCs, just as they do with nearly every MICROS~1 or "Windows" product. :-)

Even after being showed the choices of software available in the repos. That is why it is a Linux/FOSS issue, not just education.


I agree, not *just*, but *too*. I think we have a consensus here: FOSS and Linux should be marketed (!) the same way MICROS~1 does.

Reply Score: 2