Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 28th Jul 2009 19:10 UTC
Internet & Networking We've been talking about the browser ballot screen for a while now, which led to some obvious questions we couldn't answer. As it turns out (and I completely missed this), Microsoft actually posted a fairly detailed description of its proposal [.doc] on its website last Friday. It details everything from what it means not to have Internet Explorer installed to what the ballot screen will look like.
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Opera
by poundsmack on Tue 28th Jul 2009 19:28 UTC
poundsmack
Member since:
2005-07-13

$50 says Opera complains if they arn't the first choice of the alternative broswers...

Reply Score: 5

RE: Opera
by Tom9729 on Tue 28th Jul 2009 19:31 UTC in reply to "Opera"
Tom9729 Member since:
2008-12-09

Opera will probably complain even if they are the first choice.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Opera
by sbergman27 on Tue 28th Jul 2009 19:40 UTC in reply to "RE: Opera"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Opera will probably complain even if they are the first choice.

No. Håkon Wium Lie will suggest that it might be a good idea for the EU to force MS to present Opera's entry in a slightly more eye-catching font than anyone else, in addition to being first, and then go on to suggest that Debian and gNewSense might should make an exception to their most basic philosophical policies and do the same thing. And then OSNews reader "hangman" will bang out 47 more posts asserting that he was the only person who really read the article, doggedly ignoring all evidence to the contrary.

Edited 2009-07-28 19:52 UTC

Reply Score: 8

RE[3]: Opera
by google_ninja on Tue 28th Jul 2009 21:06 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Opera"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

I am thinking their next proposal will be that the icons will have to be sized in reverse proportion to their current market share, and when the mouse is passed over the Opera O, it must become bathed in holy light.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Opera
by l3v1 on Wed 29th Jul 2009 06:08 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Opera"
l3v1 Member since:
2005-07-06

Nah, Opera will want a selection dialog with 10 different icons, all pointing to the Opera download ;)

Reply Score: 3

v Microsoft astroturfer team budget ....
by Moulinneuf on Wed 29th Jul 2009 12:51 UTC in reply to "Opera"
BallmerKnowsBest Member since:
2008-06-02

Awwww, somebody missed the short bus this morning. Or do they let you use computers in special ed summer school?

Reply Score: 0

Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

I am sorry , your life story does not relate in anwyway with what I said.

IE is barred from inclusion with Microsoft OS on the EU territory , they can do a ballot for the others , but they cant include IE. Sorry I showed your plan to put back IE back on the OS by breaking the ruling against you ...

Reply Score: 1

BallmerKnowsBest Member since:
2008-06-02

I am sorry , your life story does not relate in anwyway with what I said.


Wow, that was pathetic - even most special ed students can come up with something better than "I know you are, but what am I."

Your school should probably start a remedial special ed class to accommodate your extra-specialness - wouldn't want you holding back the autistic and downs syndrome kids.

Sorry I showed your plan to put back IE back on the OS by breaking the ruling against you ...


Hahaha, my plan? What, you think I'm actually Steve Ballmer? Dear God, you really are retarded!

Reply Score: 0

Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

No I made clear what I think , that Microsoft is once again circumventing the laws and doing what it want's because it was penalized for past and current criminal activity.

Your allowed ( apparently ) to fabulate and fantasize that I am some special ed child still in school that you can beat up on me and the persona you created because you somehow think you have an advantage ...

I don't think your Steve Ballmer.

Since you got nothing valid or inteligent to say here and now , I pass on replying to any further of your fabulation about me here in this thread.

Reply Score: 1

BallmerKnowsBest Member since:
2008-06-02

No I made clear what I think


You couldn't make a point clearly if your life depended on it.

I am some special ed child still in school


Yes, that's what I was saying - I know it's difficult, but at least try to keep up.

Since you got nothing valid or inteligent to say here and now , I pass on replying to any further of your fabulation about me here in this thread.


WTH is a "fabulation"? Do you have some sort of idiot-savant gift for making up imaginary words?

Reply Score: 2

Ballot for everything
by DigitalAxis on Tue 28th Jul 2009 20:02 UTC
DigitalAxis
Member since:
2005-08-28

It will be interesting to see what happens later down the road... will other types of program be subject to this sort of balloting process? Music player? Instant messaging application? Office suite?

Installers like Anaconda already ask, but their system for selecting stuff has a lot of, well, helper programs rather than full-featured applications on it too. And there are lots of choices.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Ballot for everything
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 28th Jul 2009 20:03 UTC in reply to "Ballot for everything"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

It will be interesting to see what happens later down the road... will other types of program be subject to this sort of balloting process? Music player? Instant messaging application? Office suite?

Installers like Anaconda already ask, but their system for selecting stuff has a lot of, well, helper programs rather than full-featured applications on it too. And there are lots of choices.


Can you think of anything shipped with Windows that actually has a monopoly position that harmed the market?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Ballot for everything
by poundsmack on Tue 28th Jul 2009 20:14 UTC in reply to "RE: Ballot for everything"
poundsmack Member since:
2005-07-13

Actually Thom, when it was just IE and Netcape having IE in there did basically kill off Netscape. Also when MS used to bundle Office on computers at most retail stores that pretty much killed word perfect. They started doing things things right when their competitors could have grabbed a real foot hold in the market.

Of course now it's totally different, and both the 2 products I mentioned had companies that worked with the OEM's for inclusion with windows as the defaults (Music match Jukebox also comes ot mind).

But, in this current market, a media player and a web brsowers are common place. To not have them is a disservice to the customer, and I do not sympathise with any company that isn't willing to play the game to get their product included on a system they themselves didn't create. This is not the late 90's, stop treating MS like it is. They did anti competitive things then, now they are doing the same as every other OS provider out there. The issue should have been dismissed in court with prejudice...

Edited 2009-07-28 20:15 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Ballot for everything
by google_ninja on Tue 28th Jul 2009 21:04 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Ballot for everything"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

The thing that most people seem to forget when they bring up the netscape thing, is by the end, netscape *really* sucked. It was a thorn in the side of web developers the same way IE6 is now, where special time always had to be alotted to working through its "quirks".

I always wonder if Netscape had won the browser wars, if we would all be using their proprietary LAYER extensions rather then the CSS standards that ms adopted in IE.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Ballot for everything
by UltraZelda64 on Tue 28th Jul 2009 20:22 UTC in reply to "RE: Ballot for everything"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

How about Windows Media Player?

WMA... WMV... other proprietary formats which are all over the Internet, and can only "legally" be played back on an OS Microsoft says you can (Windows, Windows, Windows, maybe Novell's Linux, and Mac...). And because Windows has a monopoly...a disgusting number of sites uses them.

The Apple side is really no better though, with QuickTime...

They might not be monopoly-level, but I think they've caused some damage when it comes to cross-platform media playback.

Edited 2009-07-28 20:24 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Ballot for everything
by KugelKurt on Tue 28th Jul 2009 20:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Ballot for everything"
KugelKurt Member since:
2005-07-06

The Apple side is really no better though, with QuickTime...

Last time I checked, Apple fully pushes MPEG-4 with QuickTime, not VP7 or other proprietary codecs.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Ballot for everything
by PlatformAgnostic on Tue 28th Jul 2009 21:52 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Ballot for everything"
PlatformAgnostic Member since:
2006-01-02

Don't they use h.264, which has a whole set of licencing requirements around it? I was under the impression that all of the video codecs aside from the OSS ones were 'proprietary.'

Reply Score: 3

I think you're wrong here.
by MollyC on Wed 29th Jul 2009 01:24 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Ballot for everything"
MollyC Member since:
2006-07-04

First, WMV isn't "proprietary", as VC-1 was standardized a few years ago as an STMPE standard. WMV today refers to Microsoft's implementation of that standard. WMV files can be played on any platform.

WMA, I don't think has been standardized, but it too can be played on any platform.

Neither format has a monopoly. WMA isn't used at all except for Zune (and PlayForSure) DRM'ed music (and some DVD players can play WMA CDs). WMV, I think, still rules the commercial downloaded videos space, but MPEG4 is catching up, DivX dominates the non-commercial downloaded video space (and is the preferred format for pirated DVD video), and Flash long ago took over the embedded video space.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Ballot for everything
by DigitalAxis on Tue 28th Jul 2009 20:27 UTC in reply to "RE: Ballot for everything"
DigitalAxis Member since:
2005-08-28

Well, Microsoft Word; they basically have a lock on everything business related.

I was actually considering the implications of installing a system where you selected components via this ballot system, as opposed to the normal approach. Anaconda, as I mentioned, does have something like it, but if memory serves you can drill down a lot farther into it than just major applications. (Bluetooth libraries, etc.)

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Ballot for everything
by poundsmack on Tue 28th Jul 2009 20:29 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Ballot for everything"
poundsmack Member since:
2005-07-13

yes the Anaconda installer has been able to do that since (at least) readhat linux 8.0 (ah the blue curve theme, good times).

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Ballot for everything
by dylansmrjones on Tue 28th Jul 2009 20:36 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Ballot for everything"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

You mean like you could with Windows 95 / NT 4 and Windows 98(SE) ?

Once upon a time Microsoft actually gave the user the option to decide what to install and not install; heck, even the browser was completely optional ;)

Reply Score: 2

rakamaka
Member since:
2005-08-12

Sorry for my rant..
I would like to see similar ballot box when I install your favourite ubuntu or pclos or mepis etc.
i would like to see you guys demand ballot box for tires, windshield, colors etc when you buy a new car at GM or toyota
I would like to see you guys demanding ballot box for onions, lettuce, tomatos, bread when buying chicken sandwitch at Mcdonalds..
I would like to see you guys demanding ballot box forr shirt buttons or pant zippers when you buy cloths. Of course linux gurus like choices, so why not choice for zippers....
GPL has its own nice world of freedom and choices. It should not interfere(and vice versa) in the cruel and notorious world of for-profit businesses....Both should stay their courses to make world happy

Edited 2009-07-28 20:46 UTC

Reply Score: 2

poundsmack Member since:
2005-07-13

"I would like to see similar ballot box when I install your favourite ubuntu or pclos or mepis etc."

many linux installers give you said options already.

"i would like to see you guys demand ballot box for tires, windshield, colors etc when you buy a new car at GM or toyota"

have you ever been to an automotive companies website? most allow for customization.

"I would like to see you guys demanding ballot box for onions, lettuce, tomatos, bread when buying chicken sandwitch at Mcdonalds."

go to a sit down and order off a menu resturant, then you can make such requests, i know, i've done it ;) . Hell even fast food joints typically understand a request for "No _________" (where ______ = what you don't want).

"I would like to see you guys demanding ballot box forr shirt buttons or pant zippers when you buy cloths."

you mean cutome tailerd clothing? my god, if only there were such a thing. oh wait, there is, its the thing i just said.

thanks for playing...

Edited 2009-07-28 21:09 UTC

Reply Score: 2

rakamaka Member since:
2005-08-12

Will you buy pant without zippers or car without tires..that is my point of difference between GPL and cruel business world.....
You have to accept whatever Microsoft offer at their stated price. You cannot demand whatever you like...
"I would like to see similar ballot box when I install your favourite ubuntu or pclos or mepis etc."

many linux installers give you said options already.
---NO, ubuntu, pclos etc dont give you choice to install browsers like FF, opera etc or openoffice vs abiword while installing the distro on HD. You get what they bundle in .iso file. You can happily 'uninstall anything' afterwards..
"i would like to see you guys demand ballot box for tires, windshield, colors etc when you buy a new car at GM or toyota"

have you ever been to an automotive companies website? most allow for customization.
---NO, you have to select from what 'they' offer. you cannot demand your choice of pink or yellow color

"I would like to see you guys demanding ballot box for onions, lettuce, tomatos, bread when buying chicken sandwitch at Mcdonalds."

go to a sit down and order off a menu resturant, then you can make such requests, i know, i've done it ;) . Hell even fast food joints typically understand a request for "No _________" (where ______ = what you don't want).
--NO AGAIN. You cannot ask Mcdonalds to put your choice of roma tomatos or red onions. You have to 'select' from whatever 'they offer'

"I would like to see you guys demanding ballot box for shirt buttons or pant zippers when you buy cloths."

you mean cutome tailerd clothing? my god, if only there were such a thing. oh wait, there is, its the thing i just said.
---NO custom tailered shirts and pants are thing of past, because it is expensive finally, time consuming, and not worth of fitting and refitting...like linux installation vs tailer-made windows.

thanks for playing...

Edited 2009-07-28 21:29 UTC

Reply Score: 2

l3v1 Member since:
2005-07-06

---NO, ubuntu, pclos etc dont give you choice to install browsers like FF, opera etc


Well, the Debian installer allows you to select packages right from the installer. Use Debian ;) Yes, it's my favourite, if you couldn't tell ;)

Reply Score: 2

dagw Member since:
2005-07-06

I would like to see similar ballot box when I install your favourite ubuntu or pclos or mepis etc

Already exists on most distros.

i would like to see you guys demand ballot box for tires, windshield, colors etc when you buy a new car at GM or toyota

It's been a long time since I shopped for a new car, but last time I did I could chose tires and colour. I doubt things have changed.

I would like to see you guys demanding ballot box for onions, lettuce, tomatos, bread when buying chicken sandwitch at Mcdonalds..

I haven't been to McDonalds in years and years, but all hamburger joints I do go let me chose exactly what I want on my burgere.

I would like to see you guys demanding ballot box forr shirt buttons or pant zippers when you buy cloths.

Most clothes brands offer a range of options in shirts and pants, some with buttons some with zippers so again plenty of choice. And even if one brand doesn't offer what you're looking for the is no interoperability problems with buying shirts and pants from different vendors. Also most shirt vendors are happy to sell you just a shirt and don't demand that you also buy their pants if you don't need them. And even if I can't find any vendors offering a shirt that I like, there plenty of people who can quickly and easily make me shirt to my exact specifications without any problems.

Reply Score: 2

dagw Member since:
2005-07-06

GPL has its own nice world of freedom and choices. It should not interfere(and vice versa) in the cruel and notorious world of for-profit businesses

By the way you do realize that the main driving force behind this is Opera Software, a for-profit company that has nothing to do with the GPL or Open Source software in any way. The GPL and its 'world' has nothing to do with this.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by FunkyELF
by FunkyELF on Tue 28th Jul 2009 20:44 UTC
FunkyELF
Member since:
2006-07-26

Opera actually complained about the use of icons, stating that it provides an unfair advantage to IE, as people will recognize the icon more easily.


Complain about having the name of the browser too... people will recognize Internet Explorer more easily.
Shut up, stop crying.

P.S. That wasn't a direct quote, I fixed the spelling of recognize. Whoever wrote this should have used Firefox with built in spell checking.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by FunkyELF
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 28th Jul 2009 20:50 UTC in reply to "Comment by FunkyELF"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

P.S. That wasn't a direct quote, I fixed the spelling of recognize. Whoever wrote this should have used Firefox with built in spell checking.


P.S.: Recognise with an "s", as spelled in the article, is British English. I study British English, so that's what I write in. I find it hilarious that people STILL don't know that. I mean, seriously.

I have the British English version of Chrome.

Edited 2009-07-28 20:50 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by FunkyELF
by drstorm on Tue 28th Jul 2009 21:40 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by FunkyELF"
drstorm Member since:
2009-04-24

I used to study British English in school, but I never accepted it. I'm a big fan of American English.

"Recognise" is more or less OK, but I just can't cope with stuff like "colour", "programme", "centre", etc.

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: Comment by FunkyELF
by rajan r on Tue 28th Jul 2009 23:13 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by FunkyELF"
rajan r Member since:
2005-07-27

To this day, I can never understand the Poms who spell "flour" with a u. How unnecessary.

(With things like "lighted" instead of lit, and words like "gotten" frequently used, putting a full stop after Mr, Mrs, Ms, etc - American English is hardly more efficient).

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Comment by FunkyELF
by lemur2 on Wed 29th Jul 2009 00:01 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by FunkyELF"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

To this day, I can never understand the Poms who spell "flour" with a u. How unnecessary. (With things like "lighted" instead of lit, and words like "gotten" frequently used, putting a full stop after Mr, Mrs, Ms, etc - American English is hardly more efficient).


Without the "u", the word flour would read as the same pronunciation as floor, rhymes with door.

AFAIK, in countries where English is the first language, British spelling conventions are followed more often than American spelling.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by FunkyELF
by DigitalAxis on Wed 29th Jul 2009 07:17 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by FunkyELF"
DigitalAxis Member since:
2005-08-28

Flour? You mean, the ingredient in cakes and breads? That's ALWAYS been spelled 'flour'.

Somehow I suspect you knew that though.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by FunkyELF
by lemur2 on Tue 28th Jul 2009 23:53 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by FunkyELF"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"P.S. That wasn't a direct quote, I fixed the spelling of recognize. Whoever wrote this should have used Firefox with built in spell checking.
P.S.: Recognise with an "s", as spelled in the article, is British English. I study British English, so that's what I write in. I find it hilarious that people STILL don't know that. I mean, seriously. I have the British English version of Chrome. "

Recognise, spelled with an "s", is indeed the British English spelling.

Becasue the language English is actually British English, then this word is correctly spelled as it was (with an "s") in England, Australia and New Zealand, and most other places (mostly small) colonised by the British where English is now the country's official language.

In South Africa, English is only the third language. AFAIK, South Africa would also follow the British spelling conventions. Canada has probably been corrupted (spelling-wise) by its proximity to the US.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by FunkyELF
by Wrawrat on Wed 29th Jul 2009 01:01 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by FunkyELF"
Wrawrat Member since:
2005-06-30

Canada has probably been corrupted (spelling-wise) by its proximity to the US.

The Canadian English dictionnary usually accept both spellings. To my experience, the french-speaking minority learns English as second language with the American spelling, although the british spelling is usually closer to our own spelling.

OSnews: now with LanguageNews!

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by FunkyELF
by daveh87333 on Wed 29th Jul 2009 11:04 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by FunkyELF"
daveh87333 Member since:
2005-08-27

With British English 'recognise' can be spelled 'recognize' or 'recognise' - both are correct.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by FunkyELF
by memson on Wed 29th Jul 2009 12:33 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by FunkyELF"
memson Member since:
2006-01-01

With British English 'recognise' can be spelled 'recognize' or 'recognise' - both are correct.


But, any Z spelling is seen as incorrect in formal language.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by FunkyELF
by daveh87333 on Wed 29th Jul 2009 15:34 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by FunkyELF"
daveh87333 Member since:
2005-08-27

The use of the 'ize' instead of 'ise' is the spelling used by the Oxford English Dictionary and also used in academic publications that are published in the Oxford University Press.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_spelling

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: Comment by FunkyELF
by Beta on Wed 29th Jul 2009 17:40 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by FunkyELF"
Beta Member since:
2005-07-06

The use of the 'ize' instead of 'ise' is the spelling used by the Oxford English Dictionary and also used in academic publications that are published in the Oxford University Press.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_spelling

So? Many Britons do not follow the OED. I do not, and I find being told that my use of language is incorrect by a book as bloody cheeky. It is altogether too easy to adjust words and publish a dictionary. see: Webster and Color.

Reply Score: 2

Download on Windows install?
by jokkel on Tue 28th Jul 2009 20:59 UTC
jokkel
Member since:
2008-07-07

When I read the paper from Microsoft, I noticed the following:

"An “install” link will connect to a vendor-managed distribution server, which, upon the user’s confirmation, can directly download the installation package of the selected web browser"

So let's assume I install Windows from a CD and don't have an internet connection set up already. Then I won't be able to download a different browser, because it would have to be downloaded from the internet.
This situation will also occur, when I buy a new PC and it's internet connection is not setup already.

Granted this situation hasn't happened to me in the last 8 years. I always had a LAN or WiFi network I could easily connect to.

The best news on this browser ballot is, that it'll also be on Vista and Windows XP. All newspapers will run stories on the alternative browsers, when the ballot is pushed out by Microsoft on auto-update. This is a great thing for the other browsers.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Download on Windows install?
by DrillSgt on Tue 28th Jul 2009 21:11 UTC in reply to "Download on Windows install?"
DrillSgt Member since:
2005-12-02

So let's assume I install Windows from a CD and don't have an internet connection set up already. Then I won't be able to download a different browser, because it would have to be downloaded from the internet.



Well, if you are not connected to the internet, having a browser doesn't really matter anyway does it? You can always just click the icon on the desktop that opens the Ballot up and do it when you are connected to the net.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by TBPrince
by TBPrince on Tue 28th Jul 2009 21:40 UTC
TBPrince
Member since:
2005-07-06

That document is very detailed. Well, end of the story: Microsoft gave up on creating their own special environment via IE and reverted to compliant implementation.

This probably has much more to do in promoting their server-side stack. Anyway, we won't miss browser war for sure. This will be a better world for Web Developers ;-)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by TBPrince
by drstorm on Tue 28th Jul 2009 21:43 UTC in reply to "Comment by TBPrince"
drstorm Member since:
2009-04-24

Anyway, we won't miss browser war for sure. This will be a better world for Web Developers ;-)

I hope you're right, but we'll see...

Reply Score: 1

Not going to be a ballot for everything
by Yamin on Tue 28th Jul 2009 21:58 UTC
Yamin
Member since:
2006-01-10

There's not going to be a ballot for everything.

The EU is being a bit of pain. That's for sure. I personally don't see anything wrong with any bundling, not conforming to standards... Yes, i know many here think you must be satan not to conform to web standards... but I don't. Let's leave it at that. I'd like to leave it to people and customers to push for things to get done.

That said... the things the EU are pushing back on are things we would consider platforms on their own. Things that *could* create an entirely new market and they don't want that market tied to a single OS.

It doesn't take a genius to see the web browser as a new platform for application.

It doesn't seem that important now, but back when they pushed back against media players, that was also seen as a platform to distribute media. Sadly, MS did such a terrible job of developing it into a platform ;)

Do I think this option will help users? Not really. Should this option be provided more towards OEMs (Dell, HP...) absolutely. At least the OEM's would be responsible for supporting the product and choice of web browser in that case.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by motang
by motang on Tue 28th Jul 2009 23:03 UTC
motang
Member since:
2008-03-27

Was going to complain as to why XP is on the list but considering the fact as to how dominant that OS is still it makes sense, plus netbooks are coming with XP also.

Reply Score: 1

4 alternatives
by elmimmo on Wed 29th Jul 2009 02:15 UTC
elmimmo
Member since:
2005-09-17

More than I expected:

> The Ballot Screen will prominently display the final releases of the five web browsers with the highest usage share in the EEA as measured by a source commonly agreed between Microsoft and the European Commission

I guess that means Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer, Safari and Opera. Pretty much everybody is in (unless I am missing something).

Reply Score: 1

What's that?!
by Glynser on Wed 29th Jul 2009 06:03 UTC
Glynser
Member since:
2007-11-29

What's the rightmost icon in the article's picture?

Reply Score: 2

RE: What's that?!
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 29th Jul 2009 07:22 UTC in reply to "What's that?!"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

What's the rightmost icon in the article's picture?


Mosaic.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: What's that?!
by Glynser on Wed 29th Jul 2009 07:46 UTC in reply to "RE: What's that?!"
Glynser Member since:
2007-11-29

LOL!
Including that would be a cool idea ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE: What's that?!
by raboof on Wed 29th Jul 2009 17:40 UTC in reply to "What's that?!"
raboof Member since:
2005-07-24

Someone probably added it to that image as a joke - Mosaic has been officially discontinued in 1997, and the .doc mentions MS will ship the top-5 most popular (as measured by a source commonly agreed between Microsoft and the European Commission) browsers.

Gave me a smile, though ;) .

Reply Score: 1

why the complaints
by waynej on Wed 29th Jul 2009 07:48 UTC
waynej
Member since:
2007-07-04

Given all the historical complaining about the mess that is IE and the complaints about the monopolistic nature of Microsoft, I don't quite see where the complaints (especially from a knowledgeable group such as the posters on this forum) are coming from.

IE has been a disaster for years. Due to the refusal to fully embrace established web standards, many web sites (though not so much now) would not fully work with anything but IE – surely not a good situation?

The acknowledged ease with which IE allows malware to corrupt machines has been a favourite subject for many years.

There has historically been no incentive for Microsoft to improve their product to address the many shortcomings with their browser. Inertia is a powerful force, especially when coupled to ignorance of the alternatives.

Then along came Firefox. Now let's be clear, in my opinion, the main innovation with this browser has been the marketing and the development model. Other than the ‘add-in' facility I don't really see great innovation. Opera has innovated for years. Firefox is excellent, no doubt, but innovative, no.

So where are we?

Default installation in Windows gives us a malware attracting, non-standards compliant ‘mare of a program. We have Firefox that is an excellent piece of software that has rightly taken a chunk out of the IE market share. We also have Opera, a program that really has suffered from the early releases where it is was necessary to pay for the non-ad supported version. This created a cloud of negativity that has never dissipated.

The EU, at the prompting of others, looks at the situation and deems that due to the monopolistic position of windows the position above needs to be examined and something done and we now know the 'solution' to the problem.

Why the complaints?

This move will improve things in my opinion. The worst case scenario is that MS will have to improve IE. As more people are exposed to the alternative programs available, the options will be exercised by ever more people. And unless IE improves to keep pace, MS will lose out. We can all see that in the future, more and more work will be done within the browser and this is a market MS cannot afford to lose out in.

Many are whining about Opera's stance. Do you realise how much could be at stake in the future? If you were in their position would you do differently?

Another point. When I install PCLinuxOS, I get 2 browsers by default – Firefox and Konqueror. 100% more choice than with Windows – not a bad thing in my book.

Edited 2009-07-29 07:50 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Open approach and fair attitude
by jemmjemm on Wed 29th Jul 2009 09:11 UTC
jemmjemm
Member since:
2007-08-06

The step itself is luckily into the right direction.

But Microsoft's attitude and open and fair approach is visible in the simple fact that the document is published in proprietary format (.doc). If they don't like standards initiated by competitors (like pdf of OpenDocument), then they at least should use standards initiated by themselves (OOXML).

Reply Score: 1

OpenSuse Software Selection screen
by darrelljon on Wed 29th Jul 2009 11:59 UTC
darrelljon
Member since:
2008-05-29