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Opera will probably complain even if they are the first choice.

No. Håkon Wium Lie will suggest that it might be a good idea for the EU to force MS to present Opera's entry in a slightly more eye-catching font than anyone else, in addition to being first, and then go on to suggest that Debian and gNewSense might should make an exception to their most basic philosophical policies and do the same thing. And then OSNews reader "hangman" will bang out 47 more posts asserting that he was the only person who really read the article, doggedly ignoring all evidence to the contrary.

Edited 2009-07-28 19:52 UTC

I am thinking their next proposal will be that the icons will have to be sized in reverse proportion to their current market share, and when the mouse is passed over the Opera O, it must become bathed in holy light.

Nah, Opera will want a selection dialog with 10 different icons, all pointing to the Opera download

Awwww, somebody missed the short bus this morning. Or do they let you use computers in special ed summer school?

I am sorry , your life story does not relate in anwyway with what I said.

IE is barred from inclusion with Microsoft OS on the EU territory , they can do a ballot for the others , but they cant include IE. Sorry I showed your plan to put back IE back on the OS by breaking the ruling against you ...

Wow, that was pathetic - even most special ed students can come up with something better than "I know you are, but what am I."

Your school should probably start a remedial special ed class to accommodate your extra-specialness - wouldn't want you holding back the autistic and downs syndrome kids.



Hahaha, my plan? What, you think I'm actually Steve Ballmer? Dear God, you really are retarded!

No I made clear what I think , that Microsoft is once again circumventing the laws and doing what it want's because it was penalized for past and current criminal activity.

Your allowed ( apparently ) to fabulate and fantasize that I am some special ed child still in school that you can beat up on me and the persona you created because you somehow think you have an advantage ...

I don't think your Steve Ballmer.

Since you got nothing valid or inteligent to say here and now , I pass on replying to any further of your fabulation about me here in this thread.

You couldn't make a point clearly if your life depended on it.



Yes, that's what I was saying - I know it's difficult, but at least try to keep up.



WTH is a "fabulation"? Do you have some sort of idiot-savant gift for making up imaginary words?

Can you think of anything shipped with Windows that actually has a monopoly position that harmed the market?

Actually Thom, when it was just IE and Netcape having IE in there did basically kill off Netscape. Also when MS used to bundle Office on computers at most retail stores that pretty much killed word perfect. They started doing things things right when their competitors could have grabbed a real foot hold in the market.

Of course now it's totally different, and both the 2 products I mentioned had companies that worked with the OEM's for inclusion with windows as the defaults (Music match Jukebox also comes ot mind).

But, in this current market, a media player and a web brsowers are common place. To not have them is a disservice to the customer, and I do not sympathise with any company that isn't willing to play the game to get their product included on a system they themselves didn't create. This is not the late 90's, stop treating MS like it is. They did anti competitive things then, now they are doing the same as every other OS provider out there. The issue should have been dismissed in court with prejudice...

Edited 2009-07-28 20:15 UTC

The thing that most people seem to forget when they bring up the netscape thing, is by the end, netscape *really* sucked. It was a thorn in the side of web developers the same way IE6 is now, where special time always had to be alotted to working through its "quirks".

I always wonder if Netscape had won the browser wars, if we would all be using their proprietary LAYER extensions rather then the CSS standards that ms adopted in IE.

How about Windows Media Player?

WMA... WMV... other proprietary formats which are all over the Internet, and can only "legally" be played back on an OS Microsoft says you can (Windows, Windows, Windows, maybe Novell's Linux, and Mac...). And because Windows has a monopoly...a disgusting number of sites uses them.

The Apple side is really no better though, with QuickTime...

They might not be monopoly-level, but I think they've caused some damage when it comes to cross-platform media playback.

Edited 2009-07-28 20:24 UTC

Last time I checked, Apple fully pushes MPEG-4 with QuickTime, not VP7 or other proprietary codecs.

Don't they use h.264, which has a whole set of licencing requirements around it? I was under the impression that all of the video codecs aside from the OSS ones were 'proprietary.'

First, WMV isn't "proprietary", as VC-1 was standardized a few years ago as an STMPE standard. WMV today refers to Microsoft's implementation of that standard. WMV files can be played on any platform.

WMA, I don't think has been standardized, but it too can be played on any platform.

Neither format has a monopoly. WMA isn't used at all except for Zune (and PlayForSure) DRM'ed music (and some DVD players can play WMA CDs). WMV, I think, still rules the commercial downloaded videos space, but MPEG4 is catching up, DivX dominates the non-commercial downloaded video space (and is the preferred format for pirated DVD video), and Flash long ago took over the embedded video space.

Well, Microsoft Word; they basically have a lock on everything business related.

I was actually considering the implications of installing a system where you selected components via this ballot system, as opposed to the normal approach. Anaconda, as I mentioned, does have something like it, but if memory serves you can drill down a lot farther into it than just major applications. (Bluetooth libraries, etc.)

yes the Anaconda installer has been able to do that since (at least) readhat linux 8.0 (ah the blue curve theme, good times).

You mean like you could with Windows 95 / NT 4 and Windows 98(SE) ?

Once upon a time Microsoft actually gave the user the option to decide what to install and not install; heck, even the browser was completely optional

"I would like to see similar ballot box when I install your favourite ubuntu or pclos or mepis etc."

many linux installers give you said options already.

"i would like to see you guys demand ballot box for tires, windshield, colors etc when you buy a new car at GM or toyota"

have you ever been to an automotive companies website? most allow for customization.

"I would like to see you guys demanding ballot box for onions, lettuce, tomatos, bread when buying chicken sandwitch at Mcdonalds."

go to a sit down and order off a menu resturant, then you can make such requests, i know, i've done it . Hell even fast food joints typically understand a request for "No _________" (where ______ = what you don't want).

"I would like to see you guys demanding ballot box forr shirt buttons or pant zippers when you buy cloths."

you mean cutome tailerd clothing? my god, if only there were such a thing. oh wait, there is, its the thing i just said.

thanks for playing...

Edited 2009-07-28 21:09 UTC

Will you buy pant without zippers or car without tires..that is my point of difference between GPL and cruel business world.....
You have to accept whatever Microsoft offer at their stated price. You cannot demand whatever you like...
"I would like to see similar ballot box when I install your favourite ubuntu or pclos or mepis etc."

many linux installers give you said options already.
---NO, ubuntu, pclos etc dont give you choice to install browsers like FF, opera etc or openoffice vs abiword while installing the distro on HD. You get what they bundle in .iso file. You can happily 'uninstall anything' afterwards..
"i would like to see you guys demand ballot box for tires, windshield, colors etc when you buy a new car at GM or toyota"

have you ever been to an automotive companies website? most allow for customization.
---NO, you have to select from what 'they' offer. you cannot demand your choice of pink or yellow color

"I would like to see you guys demanding ballot box for onions, lettuce, tomatos, bread when buying chicken sandwitch at Mcdonalds."

go to a sit down and order off a menu resturant, then you can make such requests, i know, i've done it . Hell even fast food joints typically understand a request for "No _________" (where ______ = what you don't want).
--NO AGAIN. You cannot ask Mcdonalds to put your choice of roma tomatos or red onions. You have to 'select' from whatever 'they offer'

"I would like to see you guys demanding ballot box for shirt buttons or pant zippers when you buy cloths."

you mean cutome tailerd clothing? my god, if only there were such a thing. oh wait, there is, its the thing i just said.
---NO custom tailered shirts and pants are thing of past, because it is expensive finally, time consuming, and not worth of fitting and refitting...like linux installation vs tailer-made windows.

thanks for playing...

Edited 2009-07-28 21:29 UTC

Well, the Debian installer allows you to select packages right from the installer. Use Debian Yes, it's my favourite, if you couldn't tell

Already exists on most distros.


It's been a long time since I shopped for a new car, but last time I did I could chose tires and colour. I doubt things have changed.


I haven't been to McDonalds in years and years, but all hamburger joints I do go let me chose exactly what I want on my burgere.


Most clothes brands offer a range of options in shirts and pants, some with buttons some with zippers so again plenty of choice. And even if one brand doesn't offer what you're looking for the is no interoperability problems with buying shirts and pants from different vendors. Also most shirt vendors are happy to sell you just a shirt and don't demand that you also buy their pants if you don't need them. And even if I can't find any vendors offering a shirt that I like, there plenty of people who can quickly and easily make me shirt to my exact specifications without any problems.

By the way you do realize that the main driving force behind this is Opera Software, a for-profit company that has nothing to do with the GPL or Open Source software in any way. The GPL and its 'world' has nothing to do with this.

P.S.: Recognise with an "s", as spelled in the article, is British English. I study British English, so that's what I write in. I find it hilarious that people STILL don't know that. I mean, seriously.

I have the British English version of Chrome.

Edited 2009-07-28 20:50 UTC

I used to study British English in school, but I never accepted it. I'm a big fan of American English.

"Recognise" is more or less OK, but I just can't cope with stuff like "colour", "programme", "centre", etc.

To this day, I can never understand the Poms who spell "flour" with a u. How unnecessary.

(With things like "lighted" instead of lit, and words like "gotten" frequently used, putting a full stop after Mr, Mrs, Ms, etc - American English is hardly more efficient).

Without the "u", the word flour would read as the same pronunciation as floor, rhymes with door.

AFAIK, in countries where English is the first language, British spelling conventions are followed more often than American spelling.

Flour? You mean, the ingredient in cakes and breads? That's ALWAYS been spelled 'flour'.

Somehow I suspect you knew that though.

P.S.: Recognise with an "s", as spelled in the article, is British English. I study British English, so that's what I write in. I find it hilarious that people STILL don't know that. I mean, seriously. I have the British English version of Chrome. "

Recognise, spelled with an "s", is indeed the British English spelling.

Becasue the language English is actually British English, then this word is correctly spelled as it was (with an "s") in England, Australia and New Zealand, and most other places (mostly small) colonised by the British where English is now the country's official language.

In South Africa, English is only the third language. AFAIK, South Africa would also follow the British spelling conventions. Canada has probably been corrupted (spelling-wise) by its proximity to the US.

The Canadian English dictionnary usually accept both spellings. To my experience, the french-speaking minority learns English as second language with the American spelling, although the british spelling is usually closer to our own spelling.

OSnews: now with LanguageNews!

With British English 'recognise' can be spelled 'recognize' or 'recognise' - both are correct.

But, any Z spelling is seen as incorrect in formal language.

The use of the 'ize' instead of 'ise' is the spelling used by the Oxford English Dictionary and also used in academic publications that are published in the Oxford University Press.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_spelling

So? Many Britons do not follow the OED. I do not, and I find being told that my use of language is incorrect by a book as bloody cheeky. It is altogether too easy to adjust words and publish a dictionary. see: Webster and Color.

Well, if you are not connected to the internet, having a browser doesn't really matter anyway does it? You can always just click the icon on the desktop that opens the Ballot up and do it when you are connected to the net.

I hope you're right, but we'll see...

Mosaic.

LOL!
Including that would be a cool idea

Someone probably added it to that image as a joke - Mosaic has been officially discontinued in 1997, and the .doc mentions MS will ship the top-5 most popular (as measured by a source commonly agreed between Microsoft and the European Commission) browsers.

Gave me a smile, though .