Linked by David Adams on Thu 30th Jul 2009 23:14 UTC
Editorial I think I'd like to start an internet movement. Due to Apple's recent actions regarding the Google Voice app, I intend to criticize Apple every day at OSNews for 1984 days, or until they perform a very subtle and simple act of contrition. I'd like to enlist the help of every tech journalist, blogger, twitterer, Facebook denizen, and person who ever talks to another person. I'm that girl in the running shorts with the hammer, people! I'm throwing the hammer at the big creepy guy on the screen! We don't have to be slaves anymore! Read on for the full manifesto.
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Comment by i3X171UM
by Alex Forster on Thu 30th Jul 2009 19:54 UTC
Alex Forster
Member since:
2005-08-12

Five and a half years?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by i3X171UM
by Tuishimi on Thu 30th Jul 2009 19:54 UTC in reply to "Comment by i3X171UM"
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

For the love of Pete I am OSNews - challenged today. I can't do anything right.

Edited 2009-07-30 19:55 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by i3X171UM
by cchance on Thu 30th Jul 2009 23:39 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by i3X171UM"
cchance Member since:
2006-02-24

I think this can work, but wheres the site badge for showing support, wheres the domain with fancy banners i can fly to bitch about things i mean serious i own 4 domains and will add them to all of them and post daily something.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by i3X171UM
by David on Thu 30th Jul 2009 20:03 UTC in reply to "Comment by i3X171UM"
David Member since:
1997-10-01

If you read my byline at the bottom I admit that the 1,984 number is just a gag. But I'm committed to at least a couple of months, especially if I can get other sites to go along. Really.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by i3X171UM
by kragil on Thu 30th Jul 2009 20:45 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by i3X171UM"
kragil Member since:
2006-01-04

I like the idea. Keep them coming ;) !

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by i3X171UM
by Alex Forster on Thu 30th Jul 2009 20:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by i3X171UM"
Alex Forster Member since:
2005-08-12

Well then otherwise I think it's a pretty neat idea. It would be a quite a sight if the entire tech journalism community came together and got big-bad-Apple to apologize. Keep us updated on how the other news outlets that you've contacted respond to your proposal.

But, please, if it turns out that no one else will come on board, don't make the readers of this site suffer.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by i3X171UM
by David on Thu 30th Jul 2009 20:51 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by i3X171UM"
David Member since:
1997-10-01

Don't worry, I plan to have fun with this, and I promise to not make it boring.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by i3X171UM
by memson on Fri 31st Jul 2009 08:42 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by i3X171UM"
memson Member since:
2006-01-01

David Adams : I reject your reality and substitute my own. So NO. No thank you. You have extremely narrow vision and have alienated everyone outside of the US.

(edit to clarify whose reality I reject.. LOL, sorry i3X171UM, could have been misconceived as yours - which I reserve the right to reject too, but at this moment accept.)

Edited 2009-07-31 08:44 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by i3X171UM
by Odwalla on Fri 31st Jul 2009 23:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by i3X171UM"
Odwalla Member since:
2006-02-01

So you're only behind the idea if other people do the work? Way to stand behind your convictions.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by i3X171UM
by KrimZon on Fri 31st Jul 2009 09:57 UTC in reply to "Comment by i3X171UM"
KrimZon Member since:
2009-06-24

I've been boycotting Sony since Lik-Sang closed down, though I've hardly mentioned it to anyone else. Their open source stuff might have me reconsider though.

Reply Score: 1

No
by Tuishimi on Thu 30th Jul 2009 19:59 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

...and NO.

Talking about Bizarro... bizarro-article.

Reply Score: 4

RE: No
by Morgan on Fri 31st Jul 2009 01:31 UTC in reply to "No"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

I'll second that NO. I'm pissed at Apple for this and other recent dumb moves and I am on David's side of the argument. But using this site to wage his own private war, tongue-in-cheek or not, is unfair to the readers and may even cost OSNews financially if it loses readership.

To David: Post it on your personal blog, that's what it's there for right?

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: No
by gustl on Fri 31st Jul 2009 09:00 UTC in reply to "RE: No"
gustl Member since:
2006-01-19

Depends mostly on which things he will write. If these things are factual, he should put them here. Well-reasoned opinion pieces are a corner-case.
Unreasoned flaming would definitely not belong here.

Reply Score: 3

Ridiculous
by darknexus on Thu 30th Jul 2009 20:01 UTC
darknexus
Member since:
2008-07-15

FTA:

Apple needs to pay a price for coddling AT&T, and they definitely need to suffer some fallout for all the other crap they've pulled with the App Store.

Coddling AT&T, eh? So, it's only their deals in the U.S that you give a rat's behind about, huh? How very... American (in the worst possible way).
So, Apple does some things we don't like, such as the bs with the app store. I'm no fan of that, nor some of their controlling practices. But Microsoft does a lot of things none of us like (EEE, artificial hardware limitations for netbooks, Zune DRM... anyone?). Yet, on this site, all I ever see is Microsoft praise. Funny, that, and it makes me wonder why...
Deliberately tossing complaints around is not the kind of journalism I'd like to see take the tech world by storm. Look how much good it hasn't done in other fields. This is completely counterproductive, and osnews should not become a venue for your personal agenda now that so many rely on it for news about, well, operating systems. By all means, put whatever complaints you want on your personal blog... but do not turn a news site into such a blog.

Reply Score: 11

RE: Ridiculous
by David on Thu 30th Jul 2009 20:12 UTC in reply to "Ridiculous"
David Member since:
1997-10-01

You're absolutely right, and I'm ashamed that I didn't mention this opportunity that Apple has to disrupt mobile carriers' power worldwide. Here's the paragraph I added to my manifesto:

And, as a reader so astutely pointed out, this isn't, of course just about AT&T. Right now, AT&T is the most influential carrier, but as the iPhone moves across the globe, Apple has a chance to set the carriers straight all over the place. They should make an example of AT&T and put the world's other carriers on notice.


And as for "deliberately tossing complaints around," it's not like I'm going to have to bend over backward to find things to complain about. Even for a die-hard Apple fan like me, there's a lot to talk about. But just like I don't believe we should get bored with the protests in Iran and stop talking about them, I think that Apple will be less likely to disrespect its customers if we show determination not to let the issue drop.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Ridiculous
by darknexus on Thu 30th Jul 2009 20:21 UTC in reply to "RE: Ridiculous"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

Nevertheless, I think care is warranted here. Anyone can find anything to complain about, no matter what it is, if they look hard enough. I think, in this case, you need to take care that your complaints about Apple are actually valid in this context--e.g. complaining about the app store would be valid, complaining about the look of various icons in os x would not make sense in this context and would only muddle the issue you're trying to expose. Even though you , I'm sure, will take this into mind there's no guarantee that other tech sites and their writers will do the same and that we won't just end up with a shouting match that will only serve to bury the real issues further. If this is to work, the messages need to be along the same lines everywhere, and one also needs to play fair. There's no sense berating Apple on one hand, for example, while praising some of Microsoft's monopolistic and controlling practices on the other (note: Microsoft is an example, substitute any other company name if Microsoft promotes a knee-jerk reaction).
Also, thanks for taking my words concerning other carriers into account. I was, I think, a bit harsh in the way I said them and for that I apologize.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Ridiculous
by WorknMan on Thu 30th Jul 2009 21:56 UTC in reply to "Ridiculous"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

So, Apple does some things we don't like, such as the bs with the app store. I'm no fan of that, nor some of their controlling practices. But Microsoft does a lot of things none of us like (EEE, artificial hardware limitations for netbooks, Zune DRM... anyone?).


But everybody already knows that Microsoft sucks, so complaining about them is like preaching to the choir ;) IMHO, there's way too many people out there that look the other way when Apple does stupid sh!t, but would turn around and blackball MS if they committed the same offenses. Personally, I think it's time to spread more of the Apple hate until the Mac fanboys realize that Apple isn't really any different than MS underneath. In other words, they both suck.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Ridiculous
by Bobthearch on Fri 31st Jul 2009 00:09 UTC in reply to "Ridiculous"
Bobthearch Member since:
2006-01-27

Yet, on this site, all I ever see is Microsoft praise.


You must be thinking of a different website. ;)

Reply Score: 3

fretinator
Member since:
2005-07-06
Hmmm...
by EddyGL on Thu 30th Jul 2009 20:24 UTC
EddyGL
Member since:
2009-04-12

If everything you say is what you REALLY mean... then do the one thing that'll hurt Apple the most..
Buy an Android Phone!!! Ouch... that one they'll understand!

Reply Score: 7

RE: Hmmm...
by darknexus on Thu 30th Jul 2009 20:34 UTC in reply to "Hmmm..."
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

If everything you say is what you REALLY mean... then do the one thing
that'll hurt Apple the most..
Buy an Android Phone!!! Ouch... that one they'll understand!


No, they won't. Apple doesn't notice single customers when it comes right down to it. NOw, if every iPhone owner were to ditch it for an Android phone, that might just get the message across... but what's the likelyhood of that, especially given that Android doesn't yet offer all of the iPhone's feature set?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Hmmm...
by David on Thu 30th Jul 2009 20:54 UTC in reply to "RE: Hmmm..."
David Member since:
1997-10-01

I agree with this. I don't think that even a well-organized and widespread boycott would work fast enough or be easily identifiable enough to really get Apple's attention. The reason I thought up this bad PR idea is because I think it's the only way to actually get clear results. Of course, I can't do this one by myself either.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Hmmm...
by unoengborg on Fri 31st Jul 2009 03:27 UTC in reply to "RE: Hmmm..."
unoengborg Member since:
2005-07-06


NOw, if every iPhone owner were to ditch it for an Android phone, that might just get the message across... but what's the likelyhood of that, especially given that Android doesn't yet offer all of the iPhone's feature set?


That may be true, but iPhone doesn't offer the full feature set of Android either. E.g. you can change battery and SIM card on all HTC android phones. To change battery in an iPhone you need to remove more than half a dozen of screws, and about the same amount of small flexible circuit board connectors until you get to the battery, that is taped to the bottom of the case. In HTC you just snap the back cover off, and pick out the battery.

You can connect a HTC Android phone to a PC or charge it using a standard mini USB cable without any extra adapters.

All Android phones use full multitasking.

In Android there are no apps that are more equal than others, This means that the home Application, the Phonebook etc, can be replaced by your own app. In combination with the theming abilities in the Android OS, this makes Android phones very customizable.


There are more good free apps for Android, where in the iPhone world good apps usually cost money.

This is probably a result of the fact that it is much easier to develop for Android than it is to develop for iPhone.

Besides, there are a lot more java developers out there are objective C developers, this will eventually tip the scale in Androids direction.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Hmmm...
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 30th Jul 2009 20:38 UTC in reply to "Hmmm..."
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

I have my reservations on andriod as well. While based on a more open system, you can't actually install your own apps on it with out going through an app store like gatekeeper with the carrier's various whims enforced. I think you can buy a developer version that doesn't have that restriction, but then you can't access the pseudo app store. Feel free to correct my misunderstandings as necessary.

I'm actually waiting for an andriod device with no restrictions and a real headphone jack, or the next nokia tablet. Which ever cost less that is introduced in the next couple of months.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Hmmm...
by anevilyak on Thu 30th Jul 2009 20:43 UTC in reply to "RE: Hmmm..."
anevilyak Member since:
2005-09-14

I have my reservations on andriod as well. While based on a more open system, you can't actually install your own apps on it with out going through an app store like gatekeeper with the carrier's various whims enforced.


Incorrect, all you have to do is check a box (Settings -> Applications -> "Unknown Sources") and you can download random apps from web sites if you so desire. The main difference with the developer phones that I'm aware of is that they're unlocked (carrier-wise), and have some extra hardware onboard to aid in debugging.

Edit: I forgot, the developer phones will also run arbitrary nightly builds of Android. To my knowledge the stock G1, myTouch, etc. will only run builds signed by the carrier, assuming they haven't been jailbroken.

Edited 2009-07-30 20:45 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Hmmm...
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Mon 3rd Aug 2009 15:04 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Hmmm..."
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Good to know, I may have gotten those two things confused ( application installation and os update).

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Hmmm...
by unoengborg on Fri 31st Jul 2009 03:33 UTC in reply to "RE: Hmmm..."
unoengborg Member since:
2005-07-06


I'm actually waiting for an andriod device with no restrictions and a real headphone jack, or the next nokia tablet. Which ever cost less that is introduced in the next couple of months.



HTC Hero have a standard headphone jack, not to mention a very slick userinterface, including multitouch. It also supports Adobe flash.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Hmmm...
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Mon 3rd Aug 2009 15:06 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Hmmm..."
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Yes, but its missing a real physical keyboard. I want something almost exactly like the first Google phone, but with a headphone jack. Its exclusion is as mind boggling as Apple's long time insistence on a one button mouse.

Reply Score: 2

Revenge?
by sarahannalien on Thu 30th Jul 2009 20:36 UTC
sarahannalien
Member since:
2009-05-07

You know, if you wanted to get back at Apple for its iPhone-related atrocties, you could, you know, just not buy an iPhone....?

The iPhones seem nice, but at the moment, they don't meet my needs due to the service plan required... so I don't have one. And then I just forget about it and go on and do other things... Very little anger. No manifesto.

Try it, you might like it.

Edited 2009-07-30 20:37 UTC

Reply Score: 6

RE: Revenge?
by luismpedro on Thu 30th Jul 2009 22:01 UTC in reply to "Revenge?"
luismpedro Member since:
2009-06-10

And this is a perfect answer. Seriously, it is.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Revenge?
by macUser on Thu 30th Jul 2009 22:09 UTC in reply to "Revenge?"
macUser Member since:
2006-12-15

But I need to pitch a fit! If you won't let me pitch that fit, then I will pitch another fit until I get what I want.

Next, I will hold my breath until you give me what I want.

Reply Score: 2

Childish
by Larz on Thu 30th Jul 2009 20:39 UTC
Larz
Member since:
2006-01-04

I haven't commented here for what feels like ages. But I must comment on this post; do you really intend to whine for 1984 days?

Each to his own - but I think this is pretty childish.

Buy yourself an Andriod phone instead.

Reply Score: 5

Not only NO
by sigzero on Thu 30th Jul 2009 20:39 UTC
sigzero
Member since:
2006-01-03

But HELL NO!

Reply Score: 2

v Comment by Almafeta
by Almafeta on Thu 30th Jul 2009 20:41 UTC
Not really
by abcxyz on Thu 30th Jul 2009 20:49 UTC
abcxyz
Member since:
2009-07-30

The fact reasonable smart phones where not available or at least not widely advertised or supported by cell phone service providers in the US does not really make Apple's iPhone revolutionary or pivotal point in the history of mobile communication.

It actually kindda drives me nuts when I hear comments that my pre-iPhone system is iPhone like device. It's like saying Ford Model T was piggy backing on the momentum of vehicle mass production ideas driving (original) VW Bug. This annoying hype and even some parts of this article show, how great of a marketing job has Apple done and that they may even succeed rewriting the history: "Account of the world according to Apple".

Reply Score: 4

RE: Not really
by David on Thu 30th Jul 2009 20:56 UTC in reply to "Not really"
David Member since:
1997-10-01

Which device are you referring to? It's true that there were good mobile computing devices before the iPhone. But none of them got enough popular attention to be used as a lever to force the grip of the carriers to slacken, though.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Not really
by abcxyz on Fri 31st Jul 2009 09:20 UTC in reply to "RE: Not really"
abcxyz Member since:
2009-07-30

iPhone might have been a *marketing* revolution in US (or not just use in the sense the hype was world wide... I am not aware of people camping out for any other phone in front of the store, even though it could be a way superior device), but its historical significance ends there.

There are parts of the world where cell phones are much like any other consumer electronics and you are not as dependent on carriers' push and support. You get a (smart)phone, you pop in your SIM card and go. This might be of an interest to you. In that world iPhone is available unlocked (wrt cell service provider, not w/ what you run on it and how you use it)... and its price tag is somewhere around $800. You certainly can get better for less (bigger bang for your buck).

I was trying to avoid reference to any particular device or maker. I would say there were and are several. I am happy HTC user. My current phone is couple years old (not even top of the line), was about $500 and even now it its third incarnation Apple was not able to provide all the functionality and usability I've had all that time. Even though I have to admit, one feature at a time, year by year, it is slowly getting somewhat closer. ;)

Reply Score: 3

sergio
Member since:
2005-07-06

iPhone is a very strange Apple product... It only appeals to non-Apple fans. ;)

For me, It's an over-featured microsoftesque shit.

Reply Score: 1

kenji Member since:
2009-04-08

iPhone is a very strange Apple product... It only appeals to non-Apple fans. ;)

For me, It's an over-featured microsoftesque shit.

I'm confused. How is being 'over-featured' a bad thing? Is 'under-featured' better?

BTW, the iPhone is quite popular among the Apple fans I know so I don't understand that comment.

Reply Score: 1

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

I'm confused. How is being 'over-featured' a bad thing? Is 'under-featured' better?

Over-featured is when, for example, in an spreadsheet application, there are so many options controlling what the fonts look like in the graphs, what color they are, what face they are, what rotation they are, what kind of hinting they use, whether the background should be solid, pattern, gradient, or image, how thick the lines between cells should be, what color they should be, whether they should be dashed, double dashed, solid, or transucent, and if tranlucent, then what should the level of translucency be, whether the borders should be sharp, bevelled, hybrid, inset, raised, or rounded, and what percentage of strontification should be used on the splinelets... that you can spend hours and hours trying to figure out how to tell it what *data* to present and come away frustrated and unsuccessful.

Now, I don't have an iPhone, and would never buy one. But for a phone, over-featured might involve it having so many extra-phonal features that its hard to figure out how to, say, call 911.

Edited 2009-07-31 19:47 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Those shorts look terrible on you
by Drumhellar on Thu 30th Jul 2009 21:01 UTC
Drumhellar
Member since:
2005-07-12

I always knew David Adams was a girl.

Hah hah hah. Just joking :-)

"And Apple is dependent enough on a constant stream of good PR, that a sustained torrent of bad PR will get their attention. "

No, Apple is dependent on a constant stream of profitable revenue. They already get plenty of bad PR. Look at the burning iPods, overheating 3Gs', faulty graphics in some laptops, and App Store, App Store, App Store. Yet, their products still sell like crazy. The only way to make them change is to stop buying stuff from the App Store.

However, if you want to spend your time whining incessantly, well, there's an app for that.

Reply Score: 3

What do you mean by "throw under the bus"
by dindin on Thu 30th Jul 2009 21:02 UTC
dindin
Member since:
2006-03-29

I am not sure I follow you.

What do you want Apple to do? Sell the devices as unlocked phones and let people pay $699 and $799 without the subsidies?

Do you want it to move the device to Verizon? Sell a device on the CDMA or build a more expensive World Phone so that it can be used in the rest of 95% of world's network? Verizon is a control freek of equal maginitude. remember, the iPhone was first offered to Verizon.

Do you want Apple to let any and all applications to be available? So Apple can block applications that compete with its own but let through any app that might compete with their network partner? if this happens and people start making cheap calls they will end up paying for higher data plans - No matter who runs the network. Carriers took out Billions in loans to buy their Spectrum.

I am not sure when Verizon will get the iPhone but they will ahve to deal with the same issue - lots of web browsers hitting their 3G/EVO network. Verizon actually does bandwidth throttling to control throughput.

I am not as attached to my device as you are. 2-Years from now, when I renew my contract I will be looking out for myself and choose the best device thta can serve my needs.

Reply Score: 4

David Member since:
1997-10-01

What do you want Apple to do?


I don't expect any of those things to happen. I just want AT&T and Apple to know that abusing your developers and disregarding your customers is a dead-end street. I want them both to continue to be profitable. I complain because I care!

Reply Score: 2

Kalessin Member since:
2007-01-18

Well, you're certainly complaining about what Apple is up to. And given that you took the effort to come up with this rant and boycott campaign, you definitely must care. However, what are you really looking for? "Apple needs to improve" or "Apple needs to know that customers care" just isn't specific enough. If you really want to start a major PR campaign to get Apple to change, you need to be very explicit and clear about what you want the to do differently. Otherwise, it just comes off as complaining and ranting (which it may anyway, but then at least you can have clear arguments and requests for Apple to reply to).

Clearly, you think that Apple is screwing up a major opportunity and screwing over its customers in the process. But if you want anything to change, you need to be clear about what you want to change. This is even more the case when you want others to join you to present any kind of single front. X number of customers complaining about a specific thing is going to do a lot better than X customers complaining about X different things (even if many of those things are similar).

Reply Score: 2

memson Member since:
2006-01-01

What do you want Apple to do? Sell the devices as unlocked phones and let people pay $699 and $799 without the subsidies?


I think Apple should allow out of contract iPhones to be unlocked, but subsidies are normal practice in the UK as well as the US, so I have no problem with them.

The option to buy unlocked would be cool though, yes.

Do you want it to move the device to Verizon? Sell a device on the CDMA or build a more expensive World Phone so that it can be used in the rest of 95% of world's network? Verizon is a control freek of equal maginitude. remember, the iPhone was first offered to Verizon.


This is a very US centric issue. Apple is not going to make a CDMA based phone. Why would they? CDMA has a couple of years left to run and then it will start getting phased out when the 4G mobile technologies arrive. GSM is what 80-90% of the rest of the world use. We don't even have ANY CDMA capability in the UK. Your CDMA phone may as well be a brick.

Do you want Apple to let any and all applications to be available? So Apple can block applications that compete with its own but let through any app that might compete with their network partner? if this happens and people start making cheap calls they will end up paying for higher data plans - No matter who runs the network. Carriers took out Billions in loans to buy their Spectrum.


The app store is reasonable control. The process used to accept apps in to the store is at fault. As this is down to human judgement and US morals, maybe the international app stores should have their own regional moderation? I see apps that *should* be accepted get rejected, but I also see where Apple is coming from. They need to rubber stamp apps worldwide. This is the real issue.

I am not sure when Verizon will get the iPhone but they will ahve to deal with the same issue - lots of web browsers hitting their 3G/EVO network. Verizon actually does bandwidth throttling to control throughput.


In the UK, the 3G speed is actually really good. You get spotty reception in some areas, but in major cities, I have no issues. I even got basic GPRS in the middle of nowhere in Wales a few weeks ago - which I totally wasn't expecting given the supposed "horror" people like to throw over iPhone reception. I guess we Brits expect a certain level and O2 aren't the best overall coverage, but I think we're spoilt when compared to the US situation and are a bunch of whining idiots when we complain. I feel for you US people.

The other thing - you guys are getting screwed for your phone contracts (plans if you want to use your terms - I don't, contracts it is..) In the UK, the minimum contract is £30 inc VAT (aka taxes - actually, it's a little less cos VAT was reduced by 2.5%), so that is very roughly around US$50 (and that includes both phone, unlimited data and some free minutes call time/text messages) with nothing to pay on top if you don't make any outgoing calls over your free minutes. And we do not pay for incoming calls, or incoming text messages too. Next level up is £35 - and has a lot more free minutes and texts (which I am on and never manage to exceed.) Contracts are 18 months too.

Gutted US people? I would be.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by moleskine
by moleskine on Thu 30th Jul 2009 21:07 UTC
moleskine
Member since:
2005-11-05

Lol, some of us twigged all this about Apple ten or twelve years ago. The point is to stay well away from the magic powder, not just lay off it for a while. That phrase "insanely great" is only too true. Thinking too highly of yourself is a form of insanity and it usually ends pretty badly. That's the core problem with Apple: if you consider yourself so very superior, then before long you consider your customers almost beneath notice, less than human and fit to be bilked and bullied. Corporate ethos, or maybe the ethos of a part of Silicon Valley, and not down to just one guy.

Anyway, my guess is that the 1984 days will go as follows:

Day 1: Shame! I will never use Apple again!
Day 2: Here are my conditions for even considering using Apple again.
Day 3 (after absolutely no response from Apple to my demands): Hmmn, well I might use Apple again if and but ...
Day 4: I have started using Apple again but only under the strictest limitations.
Day 5: Steve, gimme more of that powder. You're a God.

In other situations, it's called relapsing.

Reply Score: 8

RE: Comment by moleskine
by Morgan on Fri 31st Jul 2009 01:48 UTC in reply to "Comment by moleskine"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

For me, it's always been about OS X. I never was an Apple fan (nor hater for that matter) back in the OS 9 and earlier days. Every modern Mac I've ever owned, I've sold because it could only be upgraded so far. The resale value was such that I could build something three times as powerful and run some form of Linux or BSD and have the majority of the functionality with added versatility. Now that building a Hackintosh is as easy as buying off the shelf hardware with the same chipsets as Apple's gear, there's no reason for me to buy another Mac for a while. Apple won't miss me anyway; with the exception of the 1st gen mini I've bought all my Macs secondhand.

The iPhone, while hardware-wise is all Apple, is severely limited when you look at the non-jailbroken OS. It may be a subset or variation of OS X but it is locked down so tight that there is no longer any common ground. Some say that is a necessity in a phone for stability and security reasons, but then I point to my BlackBerry, with enterprise-class security and sandboxed apps, and wonder why the iPhone can't be so open. Granted, the BlackBerry's UI is decidedly unintuitive and could use an overhaul to bring it closer to WebOS, iPhone OS or even Android's ease of use.

I know I'm wishing for the impossible, but I'd like to see Apple allow an "expert" mode on the iPhone that allows one to legitimately install current jailbreak-only apps with no expectation of support or warranty from Apple itself. I know it will never happen as it would destroy interest in the App Store, but it would be nice.

Reply Score: 2

In agreement with concept, article sucks.
by matthekc on Thu 30th Jul 2009 21:15 UTC
matthekc
Member since:
2006-10-28

I agree Apple could use a wakeup call over business practices that at best are annoying and at worst are monopolistic.
I would like to to see Ipods and Iphones able to update and sync with Linux either through a third party app or even Itunes.
While I agree apple might respond to a little backlash, this article is very bizarre.

Reply Score: 2

Points of attention
by Eddyspeeder on Thu 30th Jul 2009 21:21 UTC
Eddyspeeder
Member since:
2006-05-10

I have very mixed feelings about this.

1. I agree with you 100% on the reasons why you choose to do this (App store, opaque App validation process, etc.). They are all valid and noticed. All these issues have been previously featured on OS News.

2. However, you write that your goal is NOT for Apple to change its ways, but more like a hostage threat. You'll get off Apple's back once the Google Voice app is allowed on the iPhone. But what about the issues you mentioned, that drove you to this action in the first place? Apple won't have to change a thing about that, and you'll stop complaining anyway. Where's the sense in that?

3. 1984 days... that's almost 5.5 years! By that time, the iPhone will probably have been replaced by Google Voice anyway. So are you sure you want to commit to such an extensive project? -- (EDIT: in reading the comments, there are more people who have used a calculator today!)

4. If other tech sites won't follow you in your endeavour the next 5.5 years, you'll turn OS News into a sort of "anti-Apple" site. Careful now! Even if you intend to "have fun with it" (as you write in the comments), it will at least scare off the Mac-enthousiasts who prefer a balanced picture (those who want only positive or negative news have their respective channels, OS News is supposed to deliver both the good and the bad, without a predefined emphasis on any of the extremes).

5. I guess Apple will not let you "see" the Apple 3Gi ( http://www.theonion.com/content/news/apple_claims_new_iphone_only ). -- (EDIT: as I was reading the other comments before posting, I saw fretinator has also noticed this one!)

In addition to your story on "missing the potential", may I also remind you of the wrong move Apple made with overpricing Firewire usage. It was and is undoubtedly superior to USB; even USB 3.0 will be slower than the already widely available Firewire 800, whilst Firewire 1600/3200 are already under development. They missed the boat there - can they still catch up?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Points of attention
by Eddyspeeder on Thu 30th Jul 2009 21:38 UTC in reply to "Points of attention"
Eddyspeeder Member since:
2006-05-10

By the way, here's a constructive idea I just thought of:

Behind the scenes, there must have been a lot going on between Google and Apple. Google is a major player these days. So besides (NOT "instead of") pointing our arrows at Apple and AT&T, are there ways in which we can persuade Google to launch some sort of campaign?

Or perhaps that's too early as Google Voice is only beginning to take shape as we speak. In that case the question might be: what actions is Google preparing (and willing) to take towards Apple once Google Voice does take off?

Reply Score: 1

Come on Apple, you can do this
by vijayd81 on Thu 30th Jul 2009 21:30 UTC
vijayd81
Member since:
2008-07-18

There is an official Google voice app for Blackberry users (under AT&T). I think, in the future, iPhone will be the only one smartphone without Google voice. This just sounds ridiculous.

I think its unfair that, under the same carrier, only users of certain phones enjoy more benefits.

I also don't believe that AT&T has more power over Apple. If Apple wants, they can change anything. They have to change their App accepting policies. "No duplicated product allowed" is a ridiculous clause and they should remove it.

Reply Score: 3

**YAWN**
by KingRocky on Thu 30th Jul 2009 22:16 UTC
KingRocky
Member since:
2009-07-30

Last time I checked, the iPhone doesn't belong to anyone but Apple. They can do with it what they want. You can either purchase the iPhone, or NOT purchase the iPhone, but you can't get MAD at Apple for not including some feature that you want.

You whiners need to STFU. You don't have ANY control over what Apple does with Apple's products. That's the way it has ALWAYS been with Apple, and if you don't like it, then DON'T BUY THEIR PRODUCTS.

Reply Score: 0

RE: **YAWN**
by BallmerKnowsBest on Thu 30th Jul 2009 22:49 UTC in reply to "**YAWN**"
BallmerKnowsBest Member since:
2008-06-02

Last time I checked, the iPhone doesn't belong to anyone but Apple. They can do with it what they want. You can either purchase the iPhone, or NOT purchase the iPhone, but you can't get MAD at Apple for not including some feature that you want.


So you're saying that Apple is allowed to do whatever they want - but no one is allowed to get "MAD" at them for it? I see that your Reality Distortion Field is at 100%.

As for "you can't get MAD at Apple" - get over yourself, no one needs your permission ("last time I checked," to quote your post).

That's the way it has ALWAYS been with Apple, and if you don't like it, then DON'T BUY THEIR PRODUCTS.


You heard it here first, folks: don't buy Apple products. Sounds like a plan to me!

Edited 2009-07-30 22:49 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE: **YAWN**
by robojerk on Thu 30th Jul 2009 23:04 UTC in reply to "**YAWN**"
robojerk Member since:
2006-01-10

Last time I checked, the iPhone doesn't belong to anyone but Apple. They can do with it what they want. You can either purchase the iPhone, or NOT purchase the iPhone, but you can't get MAD at Apple for not including some feature that you want.


Last time I checked, when I buy a device I own it. I own my blackberry and am able to install any application I want on it.

AT&T's service offers access to the internet. So now AT&T is an ISP to handset devices but they are deciding to lock down access to sites like Skype, GV, etc. Imagine how people would react if AT&T DSL and fiber optic ISP blocked those sites?

Also, MacOS X is the operating system on the phone (according to Apple), will Apple also lock down a desktop PC from allowing me to install Google Voice?

Okay, the previous paragraph is a little tin foil hat'ish, but if Apple is left to do this then I can see them or someone else attempting to do this in the future if not with a handset maybe with a Netbook, Tablet or something else.

You whiners need to STFU. You don't have ANY control over what Apple does with Apple's products. That's the way it has ALWAYS been with Apple, and if you don't like it, then DON'T BUY THEIR PRODUCTS.

WOW.

Edited 2009-07-30 23:05 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: **YAWN**
by rhavenn on Thu 30th Jul 2009 23:33 UTC in reply to "RE: **YAWN**"
rhavenn Member since:
2006-05-12

You can still do anything you want with it. Jailbreak it and have fun, just don't expect Apple to support you or whine to Apple or OSNews when you hose your iPhone.

Apple sells a cohesive platform from soup to nuts and they sell a brand image. They want to control that image from A-Z. You can buy a copy of OS X and try and install it anywhere you want. Apple just won't support you and they shouldn't have to.

I think OS X rocks and is a excellent combination of usability, stability and looks. However, I will not buy an Apple product until they're a little more open with their hardware and software including the iPhone / iTouch and their desktop offerings. I vote with my wallet and so should you.

If you're really that unhappy with them then sell your iPhone, cancel your ATT contract and let both Apple and ATT know why. Of course, it's most likely that you won't do so because the other 90% of the functionality that the iPhone provides falls in your "must have column" and/or it's a image thing and you're following the rest of the sheep around who have to blindly have the latest Apple toy.

Otherwise, jail break your phone and enjoy your freedom.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: **YAWN**
by robojerk on Fri 31st Jul 2009 00:18 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: **YAWN**"
robojerk Member since:
2006-01-10

If you're really that unhappy with them then sell your iPhone, cancel your ATT contract and let both Apple and ATT know why. Of course, it's most likely that you won't do so because the other 90% of the functionality that the iPhone provides falls in your "must have column" and/or it's a image thing and you're following the rest of the sheep around who have to blindly have the latest Apple toy.


I said I owned a Blackberry. I don't own an iPhone. Next phone will probably be an Android or Pre.

Edited 2009-07-31 00:20 UTC

Reply Score: 1

stabbyjones
Member since:
2008-04-15

There's a reason why i don't own an iphone/ipod/imac/ietc.

I don't agree with the way Apple operates.
I don't agree with lock in and secrecy.
I don't agree with their marketing and spin.
I don't agree with the fervor fans have for what is essentially the same thing offered by everyone else.
I don't agree with the lack of freedom i would have with any Apple device.

So because of those things i will not even consider Apple products. Anyone (especially on osnews) who didn't realise that this was going to happen with the iphone was kidding themselves.

So if you don't like the way Apple has handled the iphone you shouldn't have bought one in the first place.

If you bought one because it's a good phone and then remembered that you don't agree with the way Apple has handled things, you have already spent money and they don't care what you think anymore.

Reply Score: 9

IvoLimmen Member since:
2005-07-06

Hear! hear!

Reply Score: 0

morglum666 Member since:
2005-07-06

100% quoted for the truth.

I'm sort of torn about apple myself. I bought my wife an Ipod and she uses it daily - mainly for running activities (Nike's add on) and frankly it does have a handy, friendly interface and its remarkably simple. I will pay extra to not have to do tech support for products after they are purchased.

But for myself - the thought that someone is going to buy a $500 plus phone, and then lock them selves into a certain network just means they have more money than brains. Theses are the same people who bought Blue Ray players immediately and don't mind paying a massive premium for every BR movie they buy, instead of waiting a year or two.

My Canadian $.15 cents

Morglum

Reply Score: 2

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

So if you don't like the way Apple has handled the iphone you shouldn't have bought one in the first place.

While voting with one's wallet is certainly to be encouraged, kicking them in the groin, in addition, yields that extra measure of effectiveness, and is eminently more satisfying.

Reply Score: 2

Bringbackanonposting
Member since:
2005-11-16

I say run with it. It would be good to publish all the dirty laundry of that rotten Apple out in front of the public eyes. I can't wait to see what you come out with (as well as reader's contributions). Thumbs up.

Reply Score: 3

LOL
by jonas.kirilla on Thu 30th Jul 2009 23:42 UTC
jonas.kirilla
Member since:
2005-07-11

Great rant! More of this on OSNews. ;)
Some genuine emotion.

(and the good stuff from Page 2, pretty please)

Reply Score: 3

v ...
by Hiev on Thu 30th Jul 2009 23:53 UTC
v OS? News?
by skingers6894 on Fri 31st Jul 2009 00:49 UTC
Guys...
by jackastor on Fri 31st Jul 2009 01:58 UTC
jackastor
Member since:
2009-05-05

If we don't do something, then the terrorists win!

I think the PR attack is a good idea, although a constant spew of bad press for Apple from a few sites has the possibility of alienating their respective readers.

Since the "You Find It You Keep It" commercials seem to be getting on Apple's nerves, maybe some enterprising film students could make a youtube video of the same sort but along the lines of "I want a phone that does blah blah and generally doesn't suck balls." Maybe put some naked college girls in there to help boost the number of views.

Reply Score: 2

+1
by anilg on Fri 31st Jul 2009 03:23 UTC
anilg
Member since:
2009-03-27

I'm adding myself to the "Want-to-see-this" side.. but yes, don't make it boring.

Good or Bad idea.. you sure got a lot of reaction.

Reply Score: 1

Yes, but no
by membrain on Fri 31st Jul 2009 03:24 UTC
membrain
Member since:
2008-06-19

David, the impulse is right but the idea of execution isn't.

Start an own site, which does not cross the boundary of uh, well... fair journalism, and do it there. Don't do it on OSnews. Don't do it on a personal blog (it will seem like personal vendetta against evil Apple and will diminish the effect). Make it a highly collaborable (is that a word?) site, allow people to post articles maybe on something like a wiki, allow multiple people to work on them, then select them, and post them on a newsfeed.

Again, don't do it here. It will highly lower the value of both OSnews, and your own plan just as well.

PS: You could even start a site like OSnews, but more critical, and not limited to Apple. Who knows, maybe this kind of journalism suits you (not ironic). Call it "Core Access", and post stuff with the shameless observational attitude of BuzzFeed, and the rigorosity of NASA's Mars lander engineers.

Edited 2009-07-31 03:30 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Please not on OSNews
by Anon9 on Fri 31st Jul 2009 04:26 UTC
Anon9
Member since:
2008-06-30

I don't mind you doing this, but Apple is not an interesting topic to me. My only apple product I own is an iPod, but I rarely use it and I only have it because my Mom won it as a prize and she gave it to me. I follow OSNews because I am interested in news, especially about the less popular operating systems. I also enjoy the occasional technical explanations of topics. I am NOT interested in reading rants about a company I don't care that much about.

It reminds my of my news feed to GameDev.net. Someone started a "The Daily GameDev.net" series with news from the games industry, but I am not interested in news about the games industry, I am interested in new technical information about making games. I eventually dropped the feed from my feed-reader. Sorry for ranting about a totally different site here, but if there is a series of rants against Apple here, it will be to me like that annoying daily news in my GameDev.net feed.

I'm not suggesting you don't do this, I just hope you don't do it on this site.

Reply Score: 2

Blackmail
by hyriand on Fri 31st Jul 2009 05:12 UTC
hyriand
Member since:
2006-04-03

Blackmailing Apple... How very mature...

If you think they're that bad, just gather some developers and lawyers and settle this the grown-up way.

There's probably something wrong with the App Store scheme (basically, it's a rigged lottery), but this isn't the way to settle it.

Edited 2009-07-31 05:20 UTC

Reply Score: 0

RE: Blackmail
by IvoLimmen on Fri 31st Jul 2009 05:32 UTC in reply to "Blackmail"
IvoLimmen Member since:
2005-07-06

Doing it the grown-up way? Lawyers? And spend a lot of money on something you'll never win. Apple has too much money. No individual (or group of individuals, unless extremely large) will ever win a lawsuit, like this, against a gigantic corporation; like Apple.

Reply Score: 2

Good call
by IvoLimmen on Fri 31st Jul 2009 05:30 UTC
IvoLimmen
Member since:
2005-07-06

1) Beware for Mac Fanboys. Some people wll hate you for doing this.
2) I myself don't use Apple hard- and or sortware (and will likely never do) simply because of what you just described. If I can contribute in any way: I will...

Reply Score: 1

1984...
by DrillSgt on Fri 31st Jul 2009 05:42 UTC
DrillSgt
Member since:
2005-12-02

Shouldn't this be a boycott against Amazon's latest blunder??

They are the ones watching and deleting what you have on your device after all that you bought and paid for... ;P

Reply Score: 2

Wow, really OSNews?
by yiorgos on Fri 31st Jul 2009 08:48 UTC
yiorgos
Member since:
2005-07-06

Disclaimer -- I am an Apple fan. I love their products, and they all work well for me. Yes, I have dabbled with Windows, Linux, AmigaOS etc, but for one reason or another I use OS X and my iPhone on a daily basis, and I have no problems with any of their hardware or software.

Having said that, I am already tired of the Apple bashing that OSNews dishes out every few days or so. What you editors don't seem to understand is that if you don't like it -- don't buy it. It's one thing to report on tech news, and it's another to provide your opinion (and heavily negative at that). Hey, it's ok to provide an opinion, but when your bias seeps into what you call "news" on this site, then you're going to lose me as a reader.

Which is a real shame, because I've been reading this site almost every day for the past 5 years or so, and a member for 4. If you're just going to bitch and moan about Just Another Freaking Company, for 1984 days no less, then all of the sudden I won't be interested in this site anymore.

Even your reminiscing was negative! Sheesh!

Funny how the tables have turned somewhat -- people on here saying that if you don't like what you see, vote with your feet. I'm doing exactly that for OSnews.

Ta ta! I won't let the door hit me on the way out, I promise.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Wow, really OSNews?
by Eddyspeeder on Sat 1st Aug 2009 02:32 UTC in reply to "Wow, really OSNews?"
Eddyspeeder Member since:
2006-05-10

Well this is exactly what I predicted in my above comment. People leave.

By the way, still waiting on the entry for day 2.

Reply Score: 1

Narrow minded
by Troels on Fri 31st Jul 2009 09:20 UTC
Troels
Member since:
2005-07-11

As i read this, i find it very narrow minded. You don't want a truly open iPhone, you just want them to listen to the customers. That sounds good on the surface, but what you REALLY say is that you just want YOUR pet application included.

And those customers you want them to listen to, who are they? Please don't fool yourself into thinking that a few geek websites are "the customers".

Then there is the application you throw your support behind, an application made by a multi billion dollar company, who should be more than capable of fighting its own battles. But you don't want to fight for an open iPhone, so the smaller developers who don't stand a chance of fighting back, and who the public will never hear about, they are on their own.

Finally you pick a fight that is limited against one carrier in one market picking an application that is only useful in that one market, so if the fight wasn't niche enough already...

If the development community had stood together from the start and ignored the app store until the terms were better, then there would be no problem today, but no, they all wanted to make a quick profit, so they made tons of apps which helped make the phone a huge succes. Now some of them bitch, but the fight was forfeit, the phone is too profitable for Apple to have to listen, and now you want to put up a fight for a few scraps.

PS: I still am going to buy a 3G S eventually, so i'm no better.

Reply Score: 2

Official initiative title?
by biffuz on Fri 31st Jul 2009 09:36 UTC
biffuz
Member since:
2006-03-27

If I write a complain on Apple on my blog, and I want to link it to this initiative, what should I write? "This post joins the 1984 Days of Bad PR for Apple initiative from OSNews" or what?

Reply Score: 1

Why?
by spiderman on Fri 31st Jul 2009 10:00 UTC
spiderman
Member since:
2008-10-23

I'm not an Apple fan. I don't see what the iPhone has that make you so excited about it. Turning point? WTF? Is it about pinching?
The iPhone is sold in a niche market to people who want to look cool. It has 1 or 2% of the market. It has nothing to do with the IBM PC.
I just don't get it. I don't care at all about the iPhone, there are hundreds of other superior phones. Just buy another one! And if you really want to hurt Apple, don't talk about them!

Reply Score: 2

Umm...
by theTSF on Fri 31st Jul 2009 11:13 UTC
theTSF
Member since:
2005-09-27

if you don't like what Apple is doing buy a different phone. There are other good phones out there, like blackberries, and other smart phones. Even if the iPhone is the best phone out there it doesn't mean you need to get one if you don't like they way they run things.

Buying a phone and bitching for 5 years means to apple that you bought and liked their phone.

Buying someone elses means there is something that they are doing wrong to not get your sale.

Reply Score: 3

As easy as that?
by eriwik on Fri 31st Jul 2009 11:43 UTC
eriwik
Member since:
2009-07-31

Are you really sure Apple can just terminate their agreement with AT&T as easy as that? Do you seriouslly think that all AT&T got out of the deal was to be the sole operator offering the iPhone while being at Apple's mercy?

No, deals like these are usually regulated by contracts which makes and Microsoft EULA look tiny. Most probably Apple is stuck with AT&T for at least a few more months, perhaps even years. And they are probably also required to prevent certain types of apps that are in direct competition with AT&T's offerings.

Not that I'm defending Apple's actions or anything, but it seems quite naïve to think that they are doing this just because they are a bunch of assholes or AT&T tells them to. In modern economics things are rarely that simple.

Reply Score: 1

RE: As easy as that?
by memson on Fri 31st Jul 2009 11:55 UTC in reply to "As easy as that?"
memson Member since:
2006-01-01

Are you really sure Apple can just terminate their agreement with AT&T as easy as that? Do you seriouslly think that all AT&T got out of the deal was to be the sole operator offering the iPhone while being at Apple's mercy?


Moreover - if they did cancel their agreement, which mobile provider have you got as an alternative in the US? T-Mobile is it for GSM... so if they don't play ball, going with any other provider would mean that every iPhone user would then need a new phone? Now that *really would* be Apple screwing everyone in the US over.

Edited 2009-07-31 11:56 UTC

Reply Score: 2

And we've hit a new low.
by bryanv on Fri 31st Jul 2009 13:16 UTC
bryanv
Member since:
2005-08-26

This is not news. It's info-tainment.

Sorry OSNews, but this is the last straw. What was left of your integrity is now... let's just say it's on par with the App Store approval process.


I'll bailing.

Reply Score: 2

RE: And we've hit a new low.
by test on Fri 31st Jul 2009 17:36 UTC in reply to "And we've hit a new low."
test Member since:
2005-07-06

This article/rant feels like reading The Sun or the Daily Mirror.

OSNews used to be about information. Now it seems it's like a shared blog where people publish their opinions.

I'm after information, so I won't come back to OSNews.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: And we've hit a new low.
by Eddyspeeder on Sat 1st Aug 2009 08:29 UTC in reply to "RE: And we've hit a new low."
Eddyspeeder Member since:
2006-05-10

It sure is a long way off from really well-written "anti" articles like this one from 2006:
http://www.osnews.com/story/14577/Why_I_Will_Probably_Never_Buy_Ano...

Or even this in-depth analysis from 2005:
http://osne.ws/950

Edited 2009-08-01 08:29 UTC

Reply Score: 1

jweinraub
Member since:
2009-06-22

I am not too sure if this is the American form of innovation or not, but I find this to be appalling if Apple is sleeping with AT&T and as a result, they got rid of Google Voice.

I can not be surprised by this either seeing what has been done in the past, especially with Verizon.

I don't know about them now, but in the past, they were known for removing the operating system from the phone, and replace it with their own, buggy one. Causing the phone to crash often, remove features, cripple others (bluetooth, anyone?)

This sort of practice has to stop.

AT&T forced RIM to remove from as I can tell, two features on the BlackBerry Bold (and I am sure other models too). BB Maps was removed and the ability of turning off 3G. The reasoning AT&T had for removing BB Maps is unfathomable. I understand they want their customers to pay up a monthly fee, and use their own stupid Navigator software. But, T's is just that, navigation, turn-by-turn directions. BB Maps is just an Atlas. There is a difference, and the fact that Google maps does the same thing, is mind boggling. That RIM had to "block" their own software and the fact that they were so willing to get effed in the ass by AT&T is strange.

Nokia for example refused to listen to AT&T. They said no we won't remove our mapping software and we don't give to sheets if you don't sell it.

RIM should have the upper hand here, and yet they bow down.

Apple is a different company, for thinking differently, not conforming. Obviously, we don't know what this whole contract says that they both signed, but innovation from 3rd parties shouldn't be affected by it!

I don't get this whole duplicate functionality tosh. Duplicate functionality causes innovation because it creates competition!

Apple is now making too many decisions on our behalf when it comes to owning a device. They don't want to allow multitasking because it ruins battery life. You know what? Some people could care less. At least give us an option that can be turned on or off in the preferences!

I understand they want to prevent viruses and such, but you know what? People should have the ability of installing their own apps without an App store if they so desired.

The lack of freedom is the most troubling part of it all, because that is so 1984ish thing to do!

Reply Score: 2

Apple not Hurt Competition
by middleware on Fri 31st Jul 2009 14:42 UTC
middleware
Member since:
2006-05-11

In the past few days, I was keep saying what Apple did might be ego, might be complacent, might be disgusting, but is NOT anything harming competition. So whatever Apple does, unless they really hurt interoperability or reach to the point of monopoly, you can always vote by your choice rather than cursing.

And someone always answer me "but Apple is the best in usability and user experience and I can not find another competitive vendor, so how can I have other choice?"

Reply Score: 1

Big Mac Attack
by jrmyers on Fri 31st Jul 2009 16:27 UTC
jrmyers
Member since:
2009-07-31

I have some serious problems with Apple as well. Good for you, sir, taking them on and trying to keep them honest. Someone once told me that if the Apple/Microsoft market share was reversed, Steve Jobs would make Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer look like saints. Apple has fiercely maintained a proprietary standard with products that are brilliantly designed, ridiculously priced, and have a rabid fan base ... who could ask for more? I will read OSnews for the next 1982 days.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Big Mac Attack
by middleware on Fri 31st Jul 2009 17:36 UTC in reply to "Big Mac Attack"
middleware Member since:
2006-05-11

Someone once told me that if the Apple/Microsoft market share was reversed, Steve Jobs would make Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer look like saints.


I think no one here to take serious who is saints and who is (what you call) "Bill Gates". The point is, when Ballmer said Vista is the safest OS, I just turn away from Vista, rather than say I will keep cursing you until you take that words back. I think you should do the same to Jobs or Apple when you think they do something stupid, rather than cursing 1984 days.

Apple has fiercely maintained a proprietary standard with products that are brilliantly designed, ridiculously priced, and have a rabid fan base ... who could ask for more? I will read OSnews for the next 1982 days.


As far as I know most of users of Mac mainly use HTML browser, Office, Create Suite, etc, most of which use open standard and some of which are even open source. So people are not forced to buy Apple's product but want to buy. If something are brilliantly designed and people want to buy them, they are not over-priced. A product is over-priced only when most of consumers think they don't want to pay the price exchanging the value of purpose. And someone in OSNew told me "if people want something they want it."

You may list specs of Mac and PC and prices to suggest people one would be over-priced, but the final judgement is the choice of the mass. That's like you could say one country would win a war against another by comparing their military force in prior, but the result is determined by fight. And if Mac's share keep going up, in my opinion it is not over-priced, or otherwise you think you are smarter than the mass in a way more ego than what you think Apple would be.

Reply Score: 1

Good luck!
by adricnet on Fri 31st Jul 2009 18:46 UTC
adricnet
Member since:
2005-07-01

If you only had their absurd attitude problems about the iPhone to go on, you might have trouble getting to five years.

Luckily there's a whole grab bag of crap they have served us to be pointed to and someday corrected. Maybe if they can pivot back away from the course of stupid, I'll be able to stomach buying another Mac laptop or get work to buy another Mac server. Having used three Mac notebooks straight, I'm looking at amd64 books rather than the firewire-stealing, black-mascara adding, no mouse buttons, no function keys, no nmber pad, useless displayport adaptor dongle upsale, card slot missing, DRM laden, slow garbage they are selling now. And my 17" overheats it's GPU and crashes, btw.

If any of y'all annoyed by David's post are still reading for some reason ... the trouble is that Apple is not acting according to its own ethos. David said it right, they must believe they are IBM, BigBrother.

Oh, and they went before the US Congress with a pack of FUD and lies, don't leave that out.

Anyway, g'luck and I'm looking forward to see where you get with this.

Reply Score: 1

Well the FCC is involved now
by fridder on Sat 1st Aug 2009 01:49 UTC
fridder
Member since:
2007-11-03

According to Gizmodo(via the WSJ) the FCC is looking into why the app was pulled and also whether AT&T was involved: http://gizmodo.com/5327640/fccs-now-investigating-apple-for-google-...

Reply Score: 1

divide_by_zero
Member since:
2009-07-11

Go ahead, make my 1984 days!...

Reply Score: 1

Apple was never what we thought it was
by alcibiades on Sat 1st Aug 2009 06:55 UTC
alcibiades
Member since:
2005-10-12

Some are only just now discovering it, but Apple has not changed at all over the years. What has changed is us. Apple has always wanted to control its users and what they do with the products, its always wanted to be a closed little world, and its always engaged in cult marketing and encouraged the mac fanatics. This has been going on for 20+ years now.

The only difference with the iPod and the iPhone is that they managed to realize their vision more thoroughly than with the Mac itself, and with the iPhone more successfully than with the iPod. And the other difference is that because of the wider distribution of these devices, their control strategies are much more in your face.

Many years ago, their mania for mind control was accompanied by a parallel track of focus on usability and peoples relation to the computer. But since XP all that has remained of this is an increasingly absurd conservative and dictatorial attitude to the user interface, which is now slightly different from the Windows interface but no better or worse. Many years ago there was a genuine hardware quality difference from mass market PCs, of which all that now remains is premium prices and fancy design cases housing standard mid range components.

Its a pretty dreadful company. But it always was. Its just that its dreadfulness has been getting more and more obvious over the years, and there has been less and less compensation for its dreadfulness in the quality of the products. Now even the self confessed Apple devotees find themselves waking up one day and realizing it.

So I would say to David, welcome to the ex-Mac club. Open the windows, go out into the garden, and take a deep breath. Yes, the air is a lot fresher out here. Its more relaxed. You can straighten up and stretch. All in all, its a better place. You will wonder why you stayed so long in that strange little cramped place, being harangued by a bunch boring fanatics about how much nicer it was than outside. When it plainly is not.

And like the recovering alcoholic, you need to take one more step. Don't restrict yourself to denunciation. You also need to pour the stuff down the sink. Convert all your users and machines to Windows or Linux, and then take your macs to the dump. Don't sell them or give them away, trash them. And the iPhones and iPods too. That's when you will really have freed yourself for good.

Reply Score: 2

When do we get...
by cefarix on Sun 2nd Aug 2009 19:34 UTC
cefarix
Member since:
2006-03-18

When do we get the OpenPhone?

Reply Score: 1

applaud the spirit but you're exactly wrong
by natden on Mon 3rd Aug 2009 06:00 UTC
natden
Member since:
2009-08-03

AT&T is a short term bump.
It's the app review process that has to go.
Apple rejects far and wide... if AT&T was behind this one than they've given them lots of cover.

"duplicates existing functionality". WTF?

We can only use The One Set of True Apps.

That IS 1984.

Apple has become exactly what it was supposed to oppose. And not even for money (more apps arguably would make them more money)... but just because it's a control freak and can't help itself.

The Think Different company now insists its developers Think Alike.

AT&T will go under the bus someday. But real innovation is going to Android.

The scariest way is how iPhone users are like the grey people in the audience of that famous 1984 ad. Believing in Steve and His One True Set of Apps.

AT&T is just a pipe. Apple is the new Big Brother. Meet the new boss same as the old boss. The new walmart censoring what can be sold. EVERY value they were supposed to oppose. And just because they can.

Edited 2009-08-03 06:02 UTC

Reply Score: 1

alcibiades Member since:
2005-10-12

Apple has become exactly what it was supposed to oppose

Wish that were really the story. Alas, the real story is that it always has been 'what it was supposed to oppose'.

The incomprehensible thing is that it managed successfully to portray itself as different. And that lots of people managed to convince themselves it was different. Well, maybe recent events are making clear to the world, finally, what it really is.

Reply Score: 2

Is this practical?
by malcognition on Mon 3rd Aug 2009 08:02 UTC
malcognition
Member since:
2009-08-03

I'm with you, but I think there are better ways for you to repair things. Like do your best to cover whatever new OS is going to replace the iphone.

The blogs will whine forever and people will still buy the iphone -- after all the Mac has survived 25 yrs. of badmouthing.

Not surprising that after all these years, Apple is evil. No clear anti-Apple, but rather we've got to support an open playing field.

Reply Score: 1

Twit with #hate_apple
by H4mm3r on Mon 3rd Aug 2009 19:12 UTC
H4mm3r
Member since:
2009-08-03

Everyone, I can't agree more. That's why I twit all the bads news about Apple with #hate_apple

Reply Score: 1