As everybody had been more or less anticipating for months now, Sony has released the Playstation 3 Slim, a much smaller, lighter, and more energy-efficient variant of the regular Playstation 3. There's good news for people who held out on the PS3 because it was too expensive, and there's bad news for those of us who liked the idea of running Linux on the PS3.
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Member since:
2005-11-13
I'm kind of looking to pick up a blu-ray player for my parents for Christmas; they're not interested in games, so the PS3 seems like a bit much
Is the PS3 still the only future-proof blu-ray player on the market, or has the format matured enough that I can go out and buy the $100 Magnavox blu-ray player at Wal-mart and be assured that it's going to play every movie I throw at it? If I don't get a player with upgradable firmware, does that mean I'm screwed?
Edited 2009-08-18 23:36 UTC
Member since:
2006-09-22
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2005-11-05
Member since:2005-07-06
Member since:2005-07-06
No, they have explicitly said that the slim model is "the" model going forward. The 160GB is a limited time offer:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/08/sony-answers-our-questio...
Member since:
2008-04-10
Member since:2006-07-12
Member since:2009-04-17
It's Sony being dicks. Which is natural Sony behavior. They are pretty much constantly huge dicks.
Sony did not want Linux users having direct access to hardware so for the PS3 they implemented a 'secure' IBM VM that blocked a lot of access. (the PowerPC platform (which the PS3 is a family member) is designed from the ground up for virtualization so that is easy compared to x86 system).
Hackers on Linux found ways around the VM so they could access the Nvidia video card and started figuring out how to get acceleration from that.
But later Sony firmware upgrades closed that 'hole'. And prevented that from working.
Now with people have figured out enough about programming with the SPE that Linux folks now have things optimized to the point were you can play 1080-sized HD video on the PS3 without needing assistance from the video card.
So that is probably one of the reasons why Sony decided to kill it. The other major reason would be that they figured there was no point in licensing the IBM tech for the new PS3 to save a bit of money.
This is the problem with having a computer manufacturer that is also a major movie and music producer. They probably figured that people having the free ability to play whatever media they want on the PS3 would lead to too much piracy going on with that platform... so instead they probably want people to do the 'PS3 Home' for all there entertainment.
Seriously. f--k closed computers like the Xbox and PS3. Those things have lots of potential and they are cheap so they should be perfect targets for people hacking and wanting little multimedia power houses.
(look what XBMC did for the original Xbox)
Now instead you have locked-down systems with limited media support and very limited functionality that is designed to remove as much money from your wallet in the most efficient and corporate-friendly way possible.
Member since:2005-07-08
You have to thank the users of PS2 Linux for that.
It seems that the Yaroze project and then the PS2 Linux never quite matched Sony's expectations.
Regarding the PS2 Linux kit (I do own one myself), many users took it to run the PS2 as a cheap computer instead of using it to learn how to do PS2 game development. As Sony originally intended. Just browse the PS2 Linux forums at http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/forum.php?forum_id=4
And they will also be closing the PS2 site.
So now I know finally which game console I will not buy. Maybe "Heavy Rain" will change my mind, but for the time being I'll be keeping with my Windows PC for gamming.
Member since:2005-07-10
Most likely there Judgen. Basically it's the razors + blades approach, Sony makes money on the blades (games) and not razors. I imagine if they're smart they'll offer an OtherOS upgrade license pack to cover the shortfall, otherwise the long term it means hackers will crack the PS3 since it's more tempting now target wise.
Member since:2007-02-17
Yeah, I think they just blocked access int he firmware somewhere. Right now nobody knows if this will affect anyone who updates to the latest irmware or only people who get the Slim. My money is on anyone who updates.
Still this is what I've been waiting for. I'm definitley getting one now. Thank the heavens too because I was about to break down and buy an xbox360.
Member since:2006-03-22
As my PS3 attempts to model climate (and has never played a game), this would be rather annoying.
My contact at Sony seems to think the 3.0 firmware update will not (effectively) brick my machine....so I should remain happy.
It does mean that I can't justify my employer buying me anymore (Slim) PS3s.
Member since:
2006-08-15
Losing the ability to run Linux on the PS3 is no great loss. Sony refused to open up the video hardware for 3D use under Linux anyway which forced you to run all apps with just a 2D framebuffer.
It would have been nicer to open up the platform to 3D use under Linux, but what's the point? I can get a cheap netbook with better hardware and software support than will ever exist for the PS3. And it's a whole heck of a lot lighter than a PS3 too! My PS3 must weigh every bit of 15 lbs and no display!
Edited 2009-08-19 02:04 UTC
Member since:2006-09-22
Member since:2005-08-18
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Member since:2005-08-09
Typical user do not need linux on PS3.
It is for developers who want to explore the CELL processor.
RSX is irrelevant piece here. It is useless. I don't care if my PS3 has graphics output or not. I use text console anyway.
If you want 3D - your choice is, obviously, Windows PC with modern and powerful GPU and GIGs of RAM.
Edited 2009-08-19 12:41 UTC
Member since:
2006-08-15
Member since:
2005-07-12
I give it a week TOPS before someone blows right past that restriction with some form of mod.
Of course that the 'wonderful new MSRP' is what the street price has been on the older model for the better part of six months is also a laugh - HOPEFULLY that will bring the street price down even further, but I'd not hold my breath given how narrow the margin has become - at least in America - out of the desperation of trying to get them off shelves and out of warehouses before the poor shlubs selling them lose their shirts and end up eating inventory.
Now I'm not saying in America they aren't selling worth ****, but when I can go into Wally world and they have two year old stock piled to the ceiling while XBox 360's fly off shelves as fast as they can restock, well...
But then, there's a reason it was voted one of the top twenty tech flops of 2006, and nobody WANTS to write games for it. (and the developers who do say "Write the PS/3 version first, by comparison versions for the other consoles are a cakewalk)
Edited 2009-08-19 02:46 UTC
Member since:2007-03-26
Developers will have just have to learn to write multi-threaded games for multi-core systems because it's the way IT is heading.
It's far more practical to stick several cores in a system than it is to try and build smaller and smaller switches to gain every last MHz out of a single core CPU. It's both more practical in terms of overall system performance and in terms cost.
Member since:2007-03-26
While I don't have a problem with being modded down, at least reply and explain why you disagree.
If I'm wrong then I want to know why so I don't continue to spout inaccurate information.
(hit-and-run modding should only be applicable for removing trolls - and I clearly wasn't trolling).
Member since:2005-07-12
Member since:2006-01-03
*HA*HA*HA*
I do not care about Linux at all because of it's bad engineering practices of the kernel. But what has been done with the new slim PS3 to say that it's possible for me to use OpenBSD on there, did they tinker with the IRQ number configuration to block OS installs or something?
You actually have no idea what you're talking about, do you? *HA*HA*HA* "Bad engineering practices in the kernel" *HA*HA*HA* Boy, it seems nobody else has noticed. "tinker with the IRQ number configuration to block OS installs" *HA*HA*HA* I think they multiplexed the matrix vectors of the flooze controller, but that can be undone by injecting an encrypted protoframe in the GPU flow.
Member since:2008-02-26
Most of us(even the crackers) noticed that last week when news got out that a huge hole that had been open for 8 years was finally closed.
Seriously though, you should check your computer's capacitor, as it might have had a neutrino reflux in its core positronic memory that kept you from downloading that byte of data from the World Wide Web into your CPU. This is a known issue in linux-3.11.1.4 kernels but OpenBSD is unaffected.
Member since:
2005-09-17
I wonder what effect abandoning being able to install a regular OS and regular apps has on EU custom regulations.
If I recall correctly, Sony tried passing the PS2 as a computer to European Commission customs officers in order to avoid the higher taxes consoles are charged, without success.
I thought that the whole feature of being able to install Linux in the PS2 from launch day was to address that again. Now that it looses the feature, is it a console again and not a computer anymore?
Edited 2009-08-19 02:59 UTC
Member since:
2005-07-06
There must be more to this than Sony trying to rip off Europeans. How much is import duty into the EU? Is it more than the US? Maybe they have factories there? What about VAT?
Also, as far as normal goods and services go, $1 pretty much buys an American what £1 buys me here in the UK, more or less?
I'm genuinely curious about this because, especially when looking at Apple products, it's hard not to feel pretty hard done by.
Member since:2006-01-03
Member since:2005-07-06
An aspect that most people forget in these sort of debates is that employment costs are much higher in Europe. Not only do minimum (or close to) wage workers get paid more, companies have higher employer taxes and related fees compared to the US. Thus every link in the local supply chain, has to take slightly higher margins to cover theses costs and all that adds up quite quickly. So I wouldn't be so quick to simply blame Sony. I wouldn't be surprised if Sony makes basically the same profits no matter where the PS3 is sold
Member since:2006-01-18
This maybe true for Britain (well at least until the pound went down the gutters), but on the average it is not really true. If you count in that on the average the salary is higher for the same jobs in the US than it is on continental Europe than things start to even out.
I personally think that for an employer the employment costs are not too different between the US and western Europe.
As for Sony, they probably figured out that the Dollar/Euro difference+ less money to ibm for not having to pay VM royalities makes up for having to pay the higher import taxes hence they dropped the Linux support.
Member since:2006-01-16
Pricing varies with exchange rates, and exchange rates are incredibly variable. Companies have to fix their pricing in different territories and they have to factor in their costs and the variability of exchange rates, so they tend to be very conservative in their pricing. That's why in Europe and especially the UK we often end up getting comparatively high prices.
Things are also not always quite as they seem. Here in the UK VAT is by law always included in prices. In many other territories, especially the USA, sales taxes are never included in quoted prices. For a fair comparison you need to remove sales taxes, since Apple don't set those levels.
As for Apple's pricing, historically it was indeed the case that their prices were often a £1 = $1 mapping, but that hasn't been the case for many years now. A quick look shows me that, once you've stripped VAT off, a baseline 13" Macbook Pro only costs us $75/£46 more in the UK than the US price.
Shifting exchange rates meant that for a while last year many Apple products were actually cheaper in the UK than the USA. In my experience, generally these days they're comparable.
The iPhone is a notable exception to this and is much more expensive in the UK, but it's not Apple that sets the pricing for that product, but rather O2 in the UK and AT&T in the USA.
Member since:
2007-07-01
Not being an open platform anymore may end up being a good thing.
It seems that a closed platform is the most effective way to get developers interested. For instance iPhone and PSP are closed, but have a lot of developer interest, while Maemo (Nokia N810) is open but nobody cares to create applications.
Member since:2005-09-17
iPhone closed? That is a relative term, and when compared to consoles tell me of any console you can develop for for free, with tech support from the maker, and an impressive set of frameworks an impressive documentation, discussed all around the web.
Edited 2009-08-19 07:20 UTC
Member since:2005-07-06
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Member since:
2009-06-18
Being realistic here, how popular is it to use Linux on the PS3? Aren't people just excessively griping about a feature few actually use for the sake of griping about Sony in general?
I have an older PS3 and I have used YDL when it first came out. I started it up, got into Linux and said "Great, now what?", then booted it back in order to play games. I know some people here have specialized tasks, cloud-based processing, etc... but that's a small fraction of the userbase. I'm sure if they're looking for more PS3's to put Linux on it, some deal can be reached with owners of older ones capable of running Linux and a new slim PS3.
It's not the end of the world, folks. move on.
Member since:2005-09-16
I was waiting for the price cut to get a PS3 specifically to run Linux on it. And, certainly, I was eyeing some PS3 exclusive games. Now Sony lost me and the revenue from said games. How is that for sound business practices - remove sth that doesn't cost you anything (OtherOS support) and alienate your customers. I'm pissed off!
Member since:2005-07-06
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The problem is that I wanted a Slim - smaller, cooler, quieter. And there's one big question that remains WRT Linux on the old PS3 - will it survive the firmware upgrade. Is it the new firmware that strips off OtherOS support, or is sth missing from the Slim that prevents it from running Linux? I assume it's the former. And I'm very much concerned that if I buy the old one I (or someone in my family) may apply a firmware update and the console gets banished from Linux land.
Member since:2005-07-10
> The problem is that I wanted a Slim - smaller, cooler, quieter.
I thought so too but it doesn't seem to be much less power hungry (quieter, yes). Good for gamers & Blu-Ray but power wise I'd need to check it out over the long term.
> And I'm very much concerned that if I buy the old one I (or someone in my family) may apply a firmware update and the console gets banished from Linux land.
If that happens Sony will be in deep deep trouble. Think Amazon Kindle trouble all over again, I doubt they would get away with it in any shape or form.
Member since:2005-07-06
Member since:
2005-06-29
Does anyone knows if console/toy taxes have been slashed too? Because Linux for PS3 was intended to call it a Computer officially and avoid larger taxes... One would think that those taxes to avoid are now smaller, or they're not looking again at the system to update its taxes...
Member since:
2005-08-12
PS3 on Linux was already neutered. I don't understand their objection to giving people proper access though. I mean, if they were selling expensive workstations, clusters, etc. then yeah, they're not just going to give it all away for $300. But they're not. So where's the loss?
Member since:
2008-03-27
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2005-06-29
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2006-06-28
Too expensive (especially in a financial crisis) and no Linux. Sorry, but it was the main reason for choosing them over the others. If you compare the prices of the consoles with what they offer its hard to choose one.
Its really sad, but now Wii and Xbox became much more interesting.
I have been waiting a while for the slim version and now I'm really sad about the price and the missing Linux support. I also don't understand the reason. They say its the same, but how can this be if there is no Linux support anymore?
Member since:
2007-11-23
Well, to me installing Linux on PS3 was only a spicy detail. PS3 was no alternative for - say - nettops, of netbooks/notebooks. Most of the users didn't even know how to proceed with such PS3-linux installations, but it's sad that Sony crapped it out of this product.
Anyways, I still think that PS3 is the best choice for gaming, not some crappy XBoxes, WII's, or - "oh, lord, protect us from the fools" - PCs.
The price is almost always overwhelming though ...