Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 26th Aug 2009 23:11 UTC
Mac OS X Yesterday we reported that Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, due for release coming Friday, contained some form of malware and/or virus protection. Since the scope of this protective measure was not yet known - nor if it even existed at all - I thought it would be best to write another post detailing that yes, it's real, and yes, it's all relatively crude.
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not impressed
by poundsmack on Wed 26th Aug 2009 23:17 UTC
poundsmack
Member since:
2005-07-13

if apple needs to keep updating that file it seems silly to do it that way. why not do it as a cloud type thing much the way that Immunet is doing.

Reply Score: 2

RE: not impressed
by helf on Thu 27th Aug 2009 13:40 UTC in reply to "not impressed"
helf Member since:
2005-07-06

Why would they?

Reply Score: 2

True, pretty crude
by kenji on Thu 27th Aug 2009 00:15 UTC
kenji
Member since:
2009-04-08

It would be much better if it could monitor and scan (if needed) all inbound files but it's better than nothing.

I would imagine that this would evolve into a real active scanner eventually. For now it's very rudimentary.

Reply Score: 1

Also not impressed
by Lazarus on Thu 27th Aug 2009 00:26 UTC
Lazarus
Member since:
2005-08-10

Would it have been so hard to include a real anti-virus/anti-malware solution instead of employing this laughably simple operation?

Does not the current Mac OS X Server come with Clam AV?

I'm certainly not making the claim that Macs are currently in great danger from viruses and the like, but within reason, more layers of security are a good thing.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Also not impressed
by MahRain on Thu 27th Aug 2009 07:39 UTC in reply to "Also not impressed"
MahRain Member since:
2008-06-05

If you purchase AppleCare you can (or could, i'm not sure) download McAfee's Virex for free from Apple. In a sense they always encouraged installing virus protection, and so can you if you feel it's necessary.

Windows doesn't (yet) come with built-in virus protection, and Windows customers are very well trained to purchase a protection suite with each PC.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Also not impressed
by righard on Thu 27th Aug 2009 10:52 UTC in reply to "RE: Also not impressed"
righard Member since:
2007-12-26

Not the customers of the hundreds of computers I have to fix.

Reply Score: 4

Different people view things...
by mrhasbean on Thu 27th Aug 2009 01:27 UTC
mrhasbean
Member since:
2006-04-03

...differently. When Microsoft started implementing their own anti-malware in Windows some people applauded them, others screamed like banshees that they were trying to take over the commercial space owned by those companies who derive profit from anti-malware solutions.

I sit somewhere in the middle, I'm (again scarily find myself agreeing with Thom) thinking that its good to see them making some effort, but I don't think it's quite far enough. Mounted devices - even if it was prompted - and maybe something that can use existing lists so it isn't up to Apple to keep it current, system files and processes that are "allowed" to directly interact with system components, and any applications supplied by Apple as part of the OS. But I don't think it should be their (Apple's) responsibility to protect everything - and there are other organisations who already do a good job of making products to do that anyway.

At the moment I use ClamXav and ClamXav Sentry and make sure all the apps I use download to a watched folder. That system seems to work well and wouldn't be hard for Apple to bundle with the OS. For the longer term though something more integrated that can be used in conjunction with whatever options the user wants to install would seem to be the solution. Microsoft's implementation works pretty well.

Reply Score: 2

wanker90210 Member since:
2007-10-26

In all fairness, Msft Defender seems to play along nicely with most other Anti-* packages, but two Anti-* packages more often than not start to fight each other off. To me it's no monopoly issue here, just a motivation to keep the competition on the edge.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Luminair
by Luminair on Thu 27th Aug 2009 01:59 UTC
Luminair
Member since:
2007-03-30

this is called picking the low fruit. if apple can stop a large portion of the mac os malware with a simple list and if-then statement, that is righteous.

Reply Score: 8

RE: Comment by Luminair
by Kroc on Thu 27th Aug 2009 06:44 UTC in reply to "Comment by Luminair"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Thank you, someone spells it out simply. A full blown scanner is not needed to solve the only two rare trojans.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by Luminair
by Budd on Thu 27th Aug 2009 08:02 UTC in reply to "Comment by Luminair"
Budd Member since:
2005-07-08

Mod up! Right you are mister.
On a related note, in Leopard there is a similar dialog when you open the first time a file you just downloaded. Rudimentary,but hey, it gives you a warning, isn't it?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Luminair
by jibadeeha on Thu 27th Aug 2009 10:36 UTC in reply to "Comment by Luminair"
jibadeeha Member since:
2009-08-10

this is called picking the low fruit. if apple can stop a large portion of the mac os malware with a simple list and if-then statement, that is righteous.


Perhaps they need to take a helicopter view on this one? ;)

Edited 2009-08-27 10:39 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Hold on a minute here...
by Kasi on Thu 27th Aug 2009 03:29 UTC
Kasi
Member since:
2008-07-12

Apple makes a very rudimentary, and possibly quite simple to thwart anti-malware/virus feature and everyone applauds.

Where have your heads gone people?

Don't you remember the hundred comment long threads about how this very same idea of including anti-malware was a forced performance-killer in windows; that microsoft should just learn how to code better from the begining.

Suddenly Jobs does the same thing and its a great idea?

I'm disappointed everyone in this thread. The whole point of paying more the hardware is to feel smug about running the "superior" software stack. If I wanted to have an anti-malware program running to protect myself from the low hanging fruit I could have saved a grand (and possibly have donated that money to Thom's strippers of world domination fund).

Reply Score: 0

RE: Hold on a minute here...
by spikeb on Thu 27th Aug 2009 04:42 UTC in reply to "Hold on a minute here..."
spikeb Member since:
2006-01-18

you're ranting about a situation that did not occur.

Reply Score: 3

Rather idiotic
by darknexus on Thu 27th Aug 2009 05:00 UTC
darknexus
Member since:
2008-07-15

Let's think about this. Only files downloaded from the listed apps will be scanned at all. Funny, no torrent clients or p2p software is on that list. Now, one last question... where, exactly, do most people get pirated software and hense from where are the trojans most likely to come? The only word I can think of to describe this is: duh?

Reply Score: 3

RE: Rather idiotic
by bert64 on Thu 27th Aug 2009 05:56 UTC in reply to "Rather idiotic"
bert64 Member since:
2007-04-23

Apple provide the APIs by which this is done, and third party applications like firefox seem to support them. Authors of torrent clients simply need to start making use of the provided APIs.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Rather idiotic
by darknexus on Thu 27th Aug 2009 06:09 UTC in reply to "RE: Rather idiotic"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

Um, right. So now it's the responsibility of each individual app to make sure it integrates with the os-provided file scanning? Please.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Rather idiotic
by apoclypse on Thu 27th Aug 2009 12:22 UTC in reply to "Rather idiotic"
apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

Well that's their fault isn't it? Other than not scanning mounted media, every user oriented base is covered. People using torrent software or P2P to download pirated applications get what they deserve, and if they are not smart enough to know how to protect themselves in the first place they shouldn't be using either.

Why should Apple protect pirates? Why should any company? MS has to do it because unfortunately its not just pirates that are affected. Anything downloaded in windows has the potential of being some form of malware, which is a situation that MS created themselves with IE5/6 and its lack of security, as well as the fact that they don't seem to have the balls to tell 3rd party software NOT TO REQUIRE ADMIN RIGHTS! There should be no app that requires admin rights other than something the needs to do system wide changes. I shouldn't need admin rights to delete an icon from my f'ing desktop.

Anyway rant aside I think this is a good first step and its something that Apple controls completely which is probably the way they like it.

Reply Score: 2

Why not check .dmg's and .zips too?
by MahRain on Thu 27th Aug 2009 07:36 UTC
MahRain
Member since:
2008-06-05

Since Apple is already verifying .dmg's using FSCK when mounting them, and the Archive Utility does some checksumming on .zips before extracting, it seems trivial to implement the Xprotect function in these toolchains too.

I can only imagine this is an easy update in 10.6.x if the need arises.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Thu 27th Aug 2009 08:12 UTC
kaiwai
Member since:
2005-07-06

I was doing some stuff on Snow Leopard and it issus a message when mounting an image - it will be interesting to see how useful it is in the future and whether people start to ignore it after a while:

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af23/kawaiigardiner/SnowLeopardW...

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by kaiwai
by Buck on Thu 27th Aug 2009 10:08 UTC in reply to "Comment by kaiwai"
Buck Member since:
2005-06-29

Oooh! I hope Apple removes that obscure wording from future versions. Doesn't help at all, only scares the user.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Thu 27th Aug 2009 11:32 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by kaiwai"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Oooh! I hope Apple removes that obscure wording from future versions. Doesn't help at all, only scares the user.


My reaction as well; it seems that it only turns on on some images but not with others; does the checker look for malformed image header then after it detects that it then checks for the two common pieces of malware? that seems to be the scenario which unfortunately will scare the crap out of people who might have downloaded an image that was legitimate.

Reply Score: 2

Torrents
by Buck on Thu 27th Aug 2009 10:06 UTC
Buck
Member since:
2005-06-29

I dunno, but didn't the majority of the infected cases come from pirated copies of iWork and CS downloaded from torrents? Unlike Windows where infections seem to perpetrate given any opportunity on Mac it was more of a conscious user choice.

Reply Score: 2

Security Forum
by dario78 on Fri 28th Aug 2009 13:47 UTC
dario78
Member since:
2009-08-28

This info. source (SCforum.info), look like very good Security Forum ?!

http://www.SCforum.info

Reply Score: 1