Linked by Jordan Spencer Cunningham on Tue 8th Sep 2009 21:21 UTC, submitted by wakeupneo
Microsoft According to a leak from a BestBuy employee, Microsoft is initiating a sort of "Anti-Linux Training" course for the employees, and those who take part in the said training are rewarded with a copy of Windows 7 for only ten dollars. The leaked screenshots of the campaign show Microsoft's comparison of its own system with an obscure "Linux" and how Windows is better in every way including security, "free downloads", and software and hardware compatibility.
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haha
by helf on Tue 8th Sep 2009 21:24 UTC
helf
Member since:
2005-07-06

This is pretty amusing. I would take it just so I could get Windows 7 cheaper.

Reply Score: 5

RE: haha
by tobyv on Tue 8th Sep 2009 22:04 UTC in reply to "haha"
tobyv Member since:
2008-08-25

Exactly! And at the end of the day, the sales staff will promote whatever sells: Linux or Windows, depending on the customer.

Sales commission is operating system agnostic.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: haha
by Calipso on Tue 8th Sep 2009 23:21 UTC in reply to "RE: haha"
Calipso Member since:
2007-03-13

I believe Best Buy employees don't work on commission. I think that's one of their selling points. That the staff won't pressure you because they don't work on commission

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: haha
by aesiamun on Tue 8th Sep 2009 23:36 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: haha"
aesiamun Member since:
2005-06-29

No but they do work on metrics...which are just as bad as commissions. You may not earn extra money for a sale, but you might lose your job if you don't sell enough.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: haha
by tobyv on Wed 9th Sep 2009 00:29 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: haha"
tobyv Member since:
2008-08-25

Thanks for pointing that out. I live in a country without Best Buy.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: haha
by Kyin on Wed 9th Sep 2009 03:18 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: haha"
Kyin Member since:
2009-01-19

What's it take to become a citizen there?

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: haha
by tobyv on Wed 9th Sep 2009 08:38 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: haha"
tobyv Member since:
2008-08-25

Not sure, but there is no Jason Taverner here either.

Reply Score: 1

Sad and desperate
by mgl.branco on Tue 8th Sep 2009 21:39 UTC
mgl.branco
Member since:
2009-07-22

To me, it's quite sad as win7 looks promising (for those liking windows). And this make me think that either, 1º, Micro has bunch of incompetents as the marketing department (though not stupids as they go the easy way, which is maintaining the monopoly using FUD) or, 2º, they're getting nervous because of having competitors.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Sad and desperate
by dimosd on Tue 8th Sep 2009 22:11 UTC in reply to "Sad and desperate "
dimosd Member since:
2006-02-10

Windows 7 looks great! I will definetely be running a pirated copy inside Virtualbox under Linux

Reply Score: 15

RE[2]: Sad and desperate
by Anon on Wed 9th Sep 2009 01:19 UTC in reply to "RE: Sad and desperate "
Anon Member since:
2006-01-02

Just make sure you set the networking of the Win7 VM to 'Host Only' or it will be potentially vulnerable to SMB 2.0 remote code execution...

Reply Score: 5

RE: Sad and desperate
by graigsmith on Thu 10th Sep 2009 04:08 UTC in reply to "Sad and desperate "
graigsmith Member since:
2006-04-05

it's not incompetent to get the people who are most likely going to be selling windows 7, a nearly free copy, and of it's selling points.

Reply Score: 1

For all MS appologists
by JAlexoid on Tue 8th Sep 2009 21:41 UTC
JAlexoid
Member since:
2009-05-19

This is exactly why "we"* "hate" Microsoft. Not for lack of technical merit, because they do not lack technical merit. Not for crappy software.

But their tactics of unbased FUD.

Reply Score: 4

RE: For all MS appologists
by sbergman27 on Tue 8th Sep 2009 22:13 UTC in reply to "For all MS appologists"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

This is exactly why "we"* "hate" Microsoft. Not for lack of technical merit, because they do not lack technical merit. Not for crappy software. But their tactics of unbased FUD.

Let the FOSS advocate who has never slung mud before cast the first glob.

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: For all MS appologists
by WereCatf on Tue 8th Sep 2009 22:24 UTC in reply to "RE: For all MS appologists"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

I don't think I've ever been slinging mud about Microsoft myself. Atleast I can't remember having done such. There's lots of things I don't like about them, but it doesn't mean every single employee there is bad. And having tried Win7 RC I must say it was actually pretty pleasurable, there shouldn't be a need for such mud slinging as they are doing now. Win7 will probably do quite fine on its own merits and that's what Microsoft should concentrate on.

Edited 2009-09-08 22:25 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: For all MS appologists
by cb_osn on Tue 8th Sep 2009 22:37 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: For all MS appologists"
cb_osn Member since:
2006-02-26

And having tried Win7 RC I must say it was actually pretty pleasurable, there shouldn't be a need for such mud slinging as they are doing now. Win7 will probably do quite fine on its own merits and that's what Microsoft should concentrate on.

Even though the article reads like an indignant rant that was copied straight from a Linux fan's blog, it seems that Microsoft's assertions were presented fairly, and I didn't read anything from them that I would consider mudslinging. To be honest, I don't think the crap that Microsoft is peddling here is any better or worse than the same type of crap you'll find at fsf.org or apple.com.

Or maybe it's just that some of us have the capability to filter all of it while those who are considerably (perhaps emotionally) attached to a specific platform will only filter the crap spewed by their favored team.

Apologies for the liberal use of the word crap.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: For all MS appologists
by invader zim on Tue 8th Sep 2009 23:59 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: For all MS appologists"
invader zim Member since:
2009-09-08

Even though the article reads like an indignant rant that was copied straight from a Linux fan's blog, it seems that Microsoft's assertions were presented fairly, and I didn't read anything from them that I would consider mudslinging. To be honest, I don't think the crap that Microsoft is peddling here is any better or worse than the same type of crap you'll find at fsf.org or apple.com.

Or maybe it's just that some of us have the capability to filter all of it while those who are considerably (perhaps emotionally) attached to a specific platform will only filter the crap spewed by their favored team.

Apologies for the liberal use of the word crap.


Well it would certainly help if Microsoft was not lying about linux and using a little more truth. Windows 7 is a good os and they don't have to lie about linux.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: For all MS appologists
by WereCatf on Wed 9th Sep 2009 00:11 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: For all MS appologists"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

it seems that Microsoft's assertions were presented fairly, and I didn't read anything from them that I would consider mudslinging.

I can see a lot of twisted half-truths and exaggerations in those slides actually. I use both Linux and Windows, I know quite well what I am talking about, and I am telling you that those slides misrepresent Linux very deeply.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: For all MS appologists
by Vanders on Wed 9th Sep 2009 01:04 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: For all MS appologists"
Vanders Member since:
2005-07-06

it seems that Microsoft's assertions were presented fairly


Some are, some are not. For example, from the first slide:

Windows Live Essentials (E.g. Messenger, Mail, Photo Gallery) - (Windows) Free Download - (Linux) Not supported


Well, duh. While perfectly technically accurate, it is obviously utterly misleading: any modern Linux distro will include everything and more that a Windows user can get from Windows Live Essentials, get them for free and not even have to download them to boot.

Reply Score: 7

RE[4]: For all MS appologists
by boldingd on Wed 9th Sep 2009 16:22 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: For all MS appologists"
boldingd Member since:
2009-02-19

Well, a significant part of the reason that this is more underhanded and objectionable than just another misleading add is that Microsoft isn't making their contestable claims in an advertisement to customers, where the bias would be obvious, and people would expect it; they're trying to bias to people who will be advising customers, who those customers are expecting to be more objective. It won't be obvious to customers that the information they're getting from the Best Buy sales people is biased information, from the vendor of the product they're being advised to buy. It's a similar problem to drug companies pushing their products to doctors, rather than patients.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: For all MS appologists
by Phloptical on Wed 9th Sep 2009 00:13 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: For all MS appologists"
Phloptical Member since:
2006-10-10

I don't think I've ever been slinging mud about Microsoft myself. Atleast I can't remember having done such. There's lots of things I don't like about them, but it doesn't mean every single employee there is bad. And having tried Win7 RC I must say it was actually pretty pleasurable, there shouldn't be a need for such mud slinging as they are doing now. Win7 will probably do quite fine on its own merits and that's what Microsoft should concentrate on.


Agreed. Ballmer's babyish tantrums against anything non-Microsoft will be it's undoing. If they just put all the time/energy/marketing into Win7, then they wouldn't have to worry about Linux and Apple gaining market share.

Personally, I'm not worried about any *nix product making inroads onto the desktop until I hear people like my parents talking about it. Then I'll believe the "Year of the Linux desktop" is even remotely a possibility. Bottom line is, it's still a Windows world, and everyone else is either living in it, or trying to work around it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: For all MS appologists
by tomcat on Wed 9th Sep 2009 00:23 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: For all MS appologists"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Agreed. Ballmer's babyish tantrums against anything non-Microsoft will be it's undoing.


Nonsense. Companies point out the shortcomings of other companies' products all the time. Look at Apple's commercials. Look at political commercials. Negative advertising works, when it's targeted properly.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: For all MS appologists
by fretinator on Wed 9th Sep 2009 14:36 UTC in reply to "RE: For all MS appologists"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

Let the FOSS advocate who has never slung mud before cast the first glob.


I have never cast mud at the soul-sucking, lifeless, pwned-by-the-man, drones who have sold their souls to a pointy-clicky ball of poo gass known as "The Winders".

I've always been polite, and as for the glob: `ls *`

Your friendly Unixish overlord

Reply Score: 2

RE: For all MS appologists
by Coxy on Wed 9th Sep 2009 08:13 UTC in reply to "For all MS appologists"
Coxy Member since:
2006-07-01

Maybe if you stopped using strange acronyms that are meaningless to most of the world, maybe people would actually listen to what you and others have to say. People listen to microsoft because they don't need a doctorate in geekiness to beable to understand what is being said. If you have to explain what your words mean then your using the wrong words.

Edited 2009-09-09 08:14 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: For all MS appologists
by Soulbender on Wed 9th Sep 2009 12:27 UTC in reply to "For all MS appologists"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Actually, I hate their products because, on the whole, they suck and I have to work with them.

Reply Score: 2

Poor Microsoft
by SlackerJack on Tue 8th Sep 2009 21:47 UTC
SlackerJack
Member since:
2005-11-12

Looks like a course in brainwashing their employees to me.

It's rather ironic that they're training their employees to show how bad Linux is compared to Windows, while lying about those same facts.

To me, it just shows how scared Microsoft are of Linux. Let's cripple the cheetah before it starts running, otherwise it will over take us.

Reply Score: 7

Oh boy...
by v_bobok on Tue 8th Sep 2009 22:05 UTC
v_bobok
Member since:
2008-08-01

Sweet mother of God, please. Microsoft must d..

Reply Score: 2

Can such a thing backfire?
by WereCatf on Tue 8th Sep 2009 22:06 UTC
WereCatf
Member since:
2006-02-15

This thing will be leaked all over the net in no time which in turn will stir up a whole lot of discussion and probably end up in several newspapers too.

Now, why is that a bad thing? Well, if you put up a big, red button with a sign "DO NOT PRESS THIS BUTTON" there's always someone who does exactly that. As such, this will only make people curious as to whether Linux indeed is as horrible as they claim. Undoubtedly it'll also make some of those workers try Linux out too and they might actually turn to like it.

I guess time will show if this backfires or not, I'm just saying I see the possibility of such.

Reply Score: 6

RE: Can such a thing backfire?
by Eddyspeeder on Tue 8th Sep 2009 22:11 UTC in reply to "Can such a thing backfire?"
Eddyspeeder Member since:
2006-05-10

Hmmm you mean like Linux becoming a "forbidden fruit"? Actually that's an interesting take.

Indeed, time will have to tell. I think it will mostly depends on how fiercely Microsoft intends to tackle Linux and whether they manage to stay on top of the public discussion about it.

Reply Score: 1

Considered in retrospect...
by Eddyspeeder on Tue 8th Sep 2009 22:07 UTC
Eddyspeeder
Member since:
2006-05-10

Well it was only a matter of time after already having had announcements such as:
- Microsoft Acknowledges Linux Threat (Aug 5, 2009)
- Ballmer: Linux Bigger Competitor than Apple (Feb 25, 2009)

But would Microsoft not be better off doing it on a larger scale rather than just focusing on BestBuy?

BTW, links for both articles:
http://www.osnews.com/story/21035/Ballmer_Linux_Bigger_Competitor_t...
http://www.osnews.com/story/21954/Microsoft_Acknowledges_Linux_Thre...

Reply Score: 3

RE: Considered in retrospect...
by Ford Prefect on Wed 9th Sep 2009 07:57 UTC in reply to "Considered in retrospect..."
Ford Prefect Member since:
2006-01-16

I assume Microsoft tries to keep their actions against Linux under the radar. They don't want to start a public debate (Linux vs Windows) on their own (for example by specific advertisements).

Reply Score: 2

Eddyspeeder Member since:
2006-05-10

LOL guess they failed avoiding the public debate nevertheless. This comment section is up to 89 comments (including this one) and counting :-P

Reply Score: 1

In other news
by Bit_Rapist on Tue 8th Sep 2009 22:08 UTC
Bit_Rapist
Member since:
2005-11-13

In other news, Apple trains employees at the Apple store about how Windows sucks and customers really want a mac.

Its marketing and I wouldn't expect anything less out of the marketing department.. at any company..

Reply Score: 3

RE: In other news
by Jokel on Tue 8th Sep 2009 22:20 UTC in reply to "In other news"
Jokel Member since:
2006-06-01

Hmmm...

Since when has Microsoft their own computer line and store?

Do not forget the Apple stores are a part of the total concept of Apple.

Do you really think this is only store Microsoft is "educating"? This is the only store -known- at this moment that has been "educated". Would you be surprised if this pattern would repeat worldwide?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: In other news
by drstorm on Tue 8th Sep 2009 23:18 UTC in reply to "RE: In other news"
drstorm Member since:
2009-04-24

Would you be surprised if this pattern would repeat worldwide?

So what if it does? It's just marketing, people. Besides, although it's probably way overstated, I highly doubt that there is no truth to what they are saying.

If memory serves me, I said it before: FSF should focus on getting their Free software to be Good software instead of trying to get all the software to be Free. (I am not saying it's bad, I'm just saying that it could be better.)

Worrying about a marketing campaign is pointless. Focus on creativity and positive thinking and chill! Sheeesh!

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: In other news
by Jokel on Wed 9th Sep 2009 06:23 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: In other news"
Jokel Member since:
2006-06-01

Marketing is one thing...

Giving people at a shop a "training" to outright lie to the customer is another thing in my opinion. To make sure they "understand" what they have to do, those people are given a "present". Sounds like those people are being "bought" by Microsoft - doesn't it?

When pharmaceutic industries are pushing their medicine using your doctor by giving him presents in order to prohibit the us of another (and maybe better) medicine you would be upset. If Micosoft is pushing their product using the sales person at the shop by giving him presents to in order to prohibit the use of another (and maybe better) OS, you say "nah - just marketing".

I think it is essential to keep an eye in the big company's (not only Microsoft) to make sure they keep behaving a little. If Microsoft is using it's (very) big weight, his big financial resources and his monopoly (yes - bigger than 60% market share counts as a monopoly) to crush even a (said) tiny 1% opposition this is certainly worrying. If this company is buying store personal to outright lie to the consumer in order to reach the goal of eradicating even the tiniest opposition on the planet, alarm signs should start ringing..

At the other hand ... it could be I had not enough coffee this morning. That's another possibility. Thankfully that one is solvable.... ;-).

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: In other news
by drstorm on Wed 9th Sep 2009 08:45 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: In other news"
drstorm Member since:
2009-04-24

You are right at large, but it's this "outright lies" part that I'm concerned with. Are they really just outright lies?

Also, if FSF had the power to do so, don't you think that they would provide the same kind of "education" about the "Windows 7 Sins"? At least Microsoft is not using that kind of hateful language.

I like the idea of Open software, but I don't like FSF at all. They are in some respects worse than Microsoft. The only difference is that they are not as powerful.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: In other news
by LighthouseJ on Wed 9th Sep 2009 12:40 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: In other news"
LighthouseJ Member since:
2009-06-18

Who said anything about lies?

MS could've picked the most shoddy, but still recent-ish distribution with a linux kernel to contrast with to produce their "results". Aren't we still debating what is "linux"? Is it the kernel, GNU utils, etc... Not trying to start a war, just illustrating the definition isn't quite determined.

Personally, I could find at least one thing on each slide that's not true (that linux *does* do that thing) with linux distributions I know of, but would be true (that linux *does not* do) on others.

Your knee-jerk reactions aside, shouldn't we be directing our reactions to Best Buy who let Microsoft in the whooshing doors? If one thing about MS is correct, is that they will always position themselves for more profit, so this shouldn't be surprising. The one contemptuous thing about MS is the $10 copy of Win7 though, yet they have exorbitant prices. The whole pirating Windows vs. pricey valid copies vs. OEM "Windows tax" on new PC's is a time bomb waiting to go off.

But if you're going to Best Buy to *purchase* Linux, then you're in a bad way anyway and you have bigger troubles to contend with. I guess this campaign is focused towards the narrow sliver of adventurous intermediate computer users that idly ask about Linux at Best Buy? I'll wait for the hidden camera videos about knowledgeable users going in there to debate the clueless Best Buy employees, the more chip-on-their-shoulder on either side, the better.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: In other news
by tomcat on Fri 11th Sep 2009 04:41 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: In other news"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Giving people at a shop a "training" to outright lie to the customer is another thing in my opinion.


Let me get this straight: It's "lying" to point out that Linux distros can't play AAC/MP3s/DVDs? That Linux can't run many/most Windows apps without installing/setting up WINE?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: In other news
by Ford Prefect on Wed 9th Sep 2009 08:00 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: In other news"
Ford Prefect Member since:
2006-01-16

If memory serves me, I said it before: FSF should focus on getting their Free software to be Good software instead of trying to get all the software to be Free.


And how would that exactly help them to reach their goal? Their goal is not market penetration or world domination, their primary goal is just to get as many free software as possible. Any proprietary software doesn't help them, even if it's "theirs".

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: In other news
by drstorm on Wed 9th Sep 2009 08:36 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: In other news"
drstorm Member since:
2009-04-24

If that's so, their goal is pointless. Who cares if there are tons of Free software if no one wants to use it.

So again, instead of throwing poo at various people and products they don't like, they should focus on their own back yard.

Most people do not care that Proprietary is "evil". All they care is whether the program gets the job done or not and whether it's easy to use and stable or not.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: In other news
by boldingd on Wed 9th Sep 2009 16:26 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: In other news"
boldingd Member since:
2009-02-19

Did I miss the connection to the FSF? How exactly are they relevant to all this?

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: In other news - FSF's relevance
by jabbotts on Wed 9th Sep 2009 19:06 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: In other news"
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

About a week or so ago, the FSF was in the news with windows7sins.org which is an anti-windows marketing website. It's about as distastefully hostile as Microsoft's anti-Linux marketing material. The sad thing is that I agree with the points the FSF is trying to present but the way in which they do it in a purely anti-marketing aproach rather than discussion of there own side's benefits really made me want to distance myself from it. Extremes are not attractive no matter which side they are on.

Reply Score: 2

boldingd Member since:
2009-02-19

Well, yeah, I know, that was kinda my point: it looks like a fight from an article last week is being carried over into this article, even tho they're not really related -- i.e. there's no reason inherent in the article to bring up the previous one.

Reply Score: 1

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

The sad thing is that I agree with the points the FSF is trying to present but the way in which they do it in a purely anti-marketing aproach rather than discussion of there own side's benefits really made me want to distance myself from it.

Precisely. And in the process, they make all of us look, if you will pardon the expression, like a bunch of "freetards". And we really shouldn't stand for that. We should speak out against the fanatics, when appropriate.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: In other news
by B12 Simon on Wed 9th Sep 2009 12:19 UTC in reply to "RE: In other news"
B12 Simon Member since:
2006-11-08

Hmmm...

Since when has Microsoft their own computer line and store?

Do not forget the Apple stores are a part of the total concept of Apple.

Do you really think this is only store Microsoft is "educating"? This is the only store -known- at this moment that has been "educated". Would you be surprised if this pattern would repeat worldwide?


Microsoft stores are on their way.

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/08/10/microsoft_store_scottsd...

Reply Score: 2

Amusing
by Jokel on Tue 8th Sep 2009 22:10 UTC
Jokel
Member since:
2006-06-01

This is rather amusing. You can speculate for the reason Microsoft is teaching this disinformation. What would it be?

1. Microsoft is acting like a totalitarian regime. It will not allow and will crush any opposition - even if it is only 1% size of the market. This would spell a grim future for the consumer, because if a company has total control of the market the consumer has no other choice than to accept anything the company demands. In that case the consumer has to serve the company and not the other way around as it should be.

or

2. Linux is growing bigger than the 1% most people project here. In fact the CEO of Microsoft said the non-Microsoft (desktop) market share is about 10% and growing. If that is the case this action of Microsoft is more understandable.

In both cases however, Microsoft is clearly misbehaving. This story will not do them good. I think some people will take notice of this behavior and add this to the growing list of bad acting they are collecting.

I think it's amusing Microsoft is more and more openly fighting Linux. Be prepared to see a increase of anti-Linux FUD as the release date of Windows 7 is nearing. I think this is just the start of a dirty campaign...

Edited 2009-09-08 22:25 UTC

Reply Score: 7

You have a typo in the article
by dvzt on Tue 8th Sep 2009 22:34 UTC
dvzt
Member since:
2008-10-23

...how Windows is better in every way including security-free downloads, and software and hardware compatibility.


There, I corrected it for you.

Reply Score: 2

iPod Compatibility
by jokkel on Tue 8th Sep 2009 22:39 UTC
jokkel
Member since:
2008-07-07

It's not that easy to use an iPod Touch or iPhone with Linux. You first have to jailbreak (hack) it. This means you lose all support from Apple. That much is true.

Reply Score: 3

Education
by ngaio on Tue 8th Sep 2009 22:44 UTC
ngaio
Member since:
2005-10-06

One of the most annoying things about Windows is how invasive it's updating process is when it comes to timely startups and shutdowns. Linux is light years ahead of it in this respect. I feel sorry for the people who spend their time peddling such rubbish. I have to wonder how many of them have actually used Linux.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Education
by Ultimatebadass on Wed 9th Sep 2009 08:26 UTC in reply to "Education"
Ultimatebadass Member since:
2006-01-08

One of the most annoying things about Windows is how invasive it's updating process is when it comes to timely startups and shutdowns. Linux is light years ahead of it in this respect.


Exactly how invasive? You just set it to "Check for updates but let me choose when to download & install" and you can update whenever you have time to do so. How is that different from updates that occur every so often on linux distros with a similar auto-update tools?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Education
by ngaio on Wed 9th Sep 2009 15:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Education"
ngaio Member since:
2005-10-06

"One of the most annoying things about Windows is how invasive it's updating process is when it comes to timely startups and shutdowns. Linux is light years ahead of it in this respect.


Exactly how invasive? You just set it to "Check for updates but let me choose when to download & install" and you can update whenever you have time to do so. How is that different from updates that occur every so often on linux distros with a similar auto-update tools?
"

It's very different. When Windows installs its updates and asks you to reboot, it modifies the shutdown and startup sequences. How much they are lengthened can vary from slightly irritating to highly annoying. And there is no warning as to how long it will take. And it can take a looooooong time. This is especially bad when you're on a laptop and you just want to shutdown and leave.

Whereas in Linux it is far better. Not only is it rare to need to reboot after an update, the entire installation takes place quickly and efficiently while you are working. You may have to reboot if the kernel was updated, but its always the same (fast) shutdown and startup sequence you normally expect.

This is a huge usability win for Linux.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Education
by boldingd on Wed 9th Sep 2009 16:35 UTC in reply to "RE: Education"
boldingd Member since:
2009-02-19

Heh, my petty complaint; it's hard to get Windows to leave you alone when it's found updates. This can be a pain if you just want to play a half-hour of Team Fortress 2 before going to bed. A little notification will pop up every, erm, half-hour or so, which minimizes your game every time. On my hardware, maximizing a D3D app (i.e. TF2) again takes almost 30 seconds, and doesn't always succeed, and can cause stability problems and graphical glitches (I'm on Vista, with ATI hardware). And then, if you let it download the update (or you've set it to download and install automatically), it will start trying to make you reboot; that's also really annoying, if you've managed to get a high-demand slot on a crowded server, that you may not be able to get back in to if you log out to reboot.
AFAIK, you can't tell the update agent to leave you alone completely; it'll always raise those notifications every so often.
Heh, one final gripe; I really don't like that the update agent runs in the background, because it makes the whole update process take longer. I'd much rather have it use as many system resources as it needs and finish quickly, than have it take half my bandwidth or a quarter my bandwidth (and, at some point, generate lots of disk I/O) and nag-force a reboot after two hours. But again, that's largely because of my PC-gamer usage patterns.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Education - manual
by jabbotts on Wed 9th Sep 2009 18:55 UTC in reply to "RE: Education"
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

My preference is to set the Windows Update fully off and visit the website when I choose too. When I go, I know there are updates waiting and have read the outcome of installing them through Internet Storm Center and similar sites.

I also go a step further and include the Windows Update service in my .cmd files that stop and start services. No reason to leave it consuming resources between patch tuesdays and it's a quick double-click to enable the three or so required services when I do choose to update.

Reply Score: 2

Really, some of you have no clue...
by tomcat on Wed 9th Sep 2009 00:20 UTC
tomcat
Member since:
2006-01-06

Read what Microsoft is saying. They're (rightfully) pointing out gaps in Linux. That doesn't mean that people can't work around it somehow. But it does mean that the average person who isn't familiar with some of these workarounds doesn't stand a chance.

What if you have a bunch of AAC files on your iPod? How do you play them under Linux? Chances are, you don't. Fail.

What if you don't know about the existence of WINE, or how to use it? Is that supposed to comfort a user, when he/she just wants to get an app up and running?

etc... etc ... etc...

It doesn't mean that Linux isn't capable of great things. It simply means that you have to jump through a lot of hoops to do things that are inherent in Mac/Windows and, since most consumers lack the experience/knowledge to do that, Microsoft should definitely point that out in their marketing materials. I would. Why not?

Reply Score: 1

UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

Read what Microsoft is saying. They're (rightfully) pointing out gaps in Linux.

Pointing out gaps, eh? Well, they must be doing a pretty good job, because they make a "gap" the size of a pothole look more like a lunar crater. Even the blind could probably see it. And obviously on purpose, to make themselves look like a god and their competition look like shit.

Microsoft is the *last* company anyone should trust regarding the quality of "alternative" operating systems; the way they present this information makes that clear as can be. Microsoft... the king of FUD. If they were doing it "rightfully," they wouldn't have been vague to the point of being meaningless and downright false. Hell, even Apple does a better job with the "facts" with their Mac vs. PC commercials.

Reply Score: 3

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Pointing out gaps, eh? Well, they must be doing a pretty good job, because they make a "gap" the size of a pothole look more like a lunar crater.

Gaps the size of potholes *do* seem like lunar craters to the average computer user in 2009.

Edited 2009-09-09 05:41 UTC

Reply Score: 2

r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

It doesn't mean that Linux isn't capable of great things.

It simply means that you have to jump through a lot of hoops

to do things that are inherent in Mac/Windows and, since most

consumers lack the experience/knowledge to do that, Microsoft

should definitely point that out in their marketing materials.

I would. Why not?


The problem with this presentation is that the truthful points

are mostly artificial. No support for MS produced software.

Well, duh. What should we expect from a company who at one

time compared Linux to cancer and an Intellectual Rights

destroying Pacman?

The iPod thing is mostly true, but who cares about iPod with a

zillion more versatile and open options out there? If you buy

iPod, you should buy a Mac too. A closed music player from a

closed company peddling closed consumer wares.

The most irking stuff are the blatant lies about security and

updating. How dare a company, whose "security features"

allowed such beauties as "I love you", Code Red, Slammer,

Nimda and Conficker, badmouth a competitor who to my knowledge

never had a global infection event!

When it comes to updating. What is easier?

Windows:

Go to Windows update (all MS software does update and install

automatically!), go to the antivirus manufacturer site, go to the burning software manufacturer site, go to the video editor

manufacturer site, go to the photo editor manufacturer site,

go to whatever software manufacturer site and download all

updates seperately. Install them seperately.

Mainstream Linux Distribution:

See the updatemanager screen pop-up. Inspect the available

updates for both the OS and the applications and click apply.

After authenticating with your password, all updates are

downloaded and installed automatically. Done.

This latest presentation is just one of the many things that

prove that MS preys on the gullible. The people who still

think of computers as black magic. The people who want to

write an occasional letter and surf the net. Who go to a store

and are sold a quad core, 4 GB RAM, gaming rig, but who

would have been served better with a decent nettop.

The real sad part of this, is that Windows 7 doesn't need this kind of "support". 7 is very nice. A worthy successor to Windows XP SP2. Instead of really touting what 7 can do, MS decides to spout cheap FUD.

That is my problem with MS in general. It's not the technology, but the practises that make me forego MS as a possible main software supplier.

Reply Score: 4

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

They're (rightfully) pointing out gaps in Linux.


Correction. They are "helpfully" pointing out gaps in products from their competitors.

But it does mean that the average person who isn't familiar with some of these workarounds doesn't stand a chance.


There are plenty of things in Windows that someone not familiar with the workarounds will never be able to fix. I don't expect Microsoft to point out those gaps though.

On the upside this clearly shows that MS is certainly feeling the pressure from the competition otherwise they would not bother with this.

Reply Score: 2

l3v1 Member since:
2005-07-06

you have to jump through a lot of hoops to do things that are inherent in Mac/Windows


Well, since you were born with Windows knowledge pre-recorded in your genes, tell us, how does it feel?

edit:typo

Edited 2009-09-09 12:07 UTC

Reply Score: 2

boldingd Member since:
2009-02-19

Just to point this out, a number of those gaps are artificial. Media format support is a great example; it's not for technical reasons that Linux distros usually don't include MP3 playback or DVD playback in their default install. Great MP3 playback and DVD playback packages exist, but they're not technically legal in the States. If you're going to go picking out flaws, it would be more... professional, I suppose, or perhaps more accurate, to be honest about where some of those flaws are coming from. Especially when they're artificially imposed and beyond the control of the creators of the software that you're criticizing.

Reply Score: 2

tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Just to point this out, a number of those gaps are artificial. Media format support is a great example; it's not for technical reasons that Linux distros usually don't include MP3 playback or DVD playback in their default install. Great MP3 playback and DVD playback packages exist, but they're not technically legal in the States. If you're going to go picking out flaws, it would be more... professional, I suppose, or perhaps more accurate, to be honest about where some of those flaws are coming from. Especially when they're artificially imposed and beyond the control of the creators of the software that you're criticizing.


Irrelevant. Customers can't play MP3s or DVDs, by default. They are gaps.

Reply Score: 2

Never take Best Buy seriously...
by cmost on Wed 9th Sep 2009 01:29 UTC
cmost
Member since:
2006-07-16

I simply assume that most people take for granted that Best Buy employees are blithering idiots when it comes to anything technical. Most of them are kids making (slightly above) minimum wage and couldn't care less about we customers. I can't count the number of times I was given patently untrue information or mis-advice by an allegedly knowledgeable sales person. I think it's rather fun to play dumb and see what idiotic nonsense a Best Buy sales person will dole out. I'm sure these are well-meaning employees who receive this bullshit training and take it as fact. Unfortunately, the mainstream public will probably eat it up hook, line and sinker and that's to the detriment of Linux.

Reply Score: 7

They go hand-in-hand
by bousozoku on Wed 9th Sep 2009 01:29 UTC
bousozoku
Member since:
2006-01-23

BestBuy isn't exactly a comfort when it comes to computers and their policies.

They had been cited earlier for not following the extended warranty plans they sell. According to a technician, they will search every computer brought for repair.

Knowing that the two companies cooperated on the Laptop Hunters advertising, is this a surprise?

Microsoft has a history of being heavy-handed and, like the mob, it won't stop anytime soon. If they'd spend the time to make the software work properly, they wouldn't need to coerce people to use it--people would want to use it.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by computrius
by computrius on Wed 9th Sep 2009 01:33 UTC
computrius
Member since:
2006-03-26

Im not a huge linux fan by any means but this is just low.

Reply Score: 5

Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Wed 9th Sep 2009 02:31 UTC
kaiwai
Member since:
2005-07-06

I have nothing against the idea of putting up the facts and saying, 'ok, this is what happens with our competitors product and this is how ours operates - ours is superior'. It occurs in all markets; from shampoo to floor cleaner. Each claims to get your windows streak free or your brights even brighter.

The problem I have is the misinformation that they placed in the training; for example, "Linux updates and upgrades are easy" where they put "the real facts" state that the claim of easy updates and upgrades is false and difficult to understand. Anyone who has ever run Ubuntu, Fedora or OpenSUSE will tell you in the update widget they make it quite clear to differentiate between a security update, an important update and a feature update.

Correct me if I am wrong but as far as I remember by default all three automatically select critical and security updates by default so even if you're clueless to the exact nature you can leave it up to Linux to make the decision and then press the button to continue the update.

"Linux is safer than Windows" - by what metric? the security updates of the respective open source projects have a faster turn around than Microsoft and in many cases have been found by the projects themselves rather than a third party. The security updates I see from point of announcement to fix by the project then to the deployment via the distributions is normally within 24 to 48 hours. Compare that to Microsoft who says, "well, its really critical but you'll have to wait until patch Tuesday - just pray nothing goes wrong until then".

As for parental controls - um, anyone realise that it is the PARENTS responsibility to regulate children's behaviour and not the computer. I know the concept of parental involvement in raising children isn't cool or hip anymore but you know - just for shits and giggles, give it ago one time. You might actually realise that being a parent is part of the requirement of having a child in the first place.

The last slide is so pathetic it isn't even funny; by what metric? has anyone ever tried to use the Microsoft website? I would sooner roll my body naked over 1,000 razor blades and then doused in lemon juice than ever attempt to find something in their website. Wireless problems with Windows Vista is epidemic and yet their is little to no real in depth information on trying to find out the source of the problem. Try to find information on how to delete a driver so you can clean re-install and then find out that WIndows Vista doesn't actually delete the driver when you choose to do so in the Device Manager; again, no information on Microsoft's website about that.

Microsoft: if you're going to do a comparison - do a honest comparison. Does Windows 7 have some superior qualities over Linux? Of course it does! focus on those and ignore the rest. Hardware compatibility - why not promote the fact that you can go into a random shop and purchase things off the shelf and for them to just work? why not talk about the huge array of third party vendors selling applications and games of all varieties? I really question who wrote/ran this campaign because they seem to be totally clueless to marketing and what end users actually care about.

Edited 2009-09-09 02:36 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE: Comment by kaiwai
by merkoth on Wed 9th Sep 2009 02:42 UTC in reply to "Comment by kaiwai"
merkoth Member since:
2006-09-22

(...) Microsoft: if you're going to do a comparison - do a honest comparison. Does Windows 7 have some superior qualities over Linux? Of course it does! focus on those and ignore the rest. Hardware compatibility - why not promote the fact that you can go into a random shop and purchase things off the shelf and for them to just work? why not talk about the huge array of third party vendors selling applications and games of all varieties? I really question who wrote/ran this campaign because they seem to be totally clueless to marketing and what end users actually care about.


Because honest comparisons will work if and only if you have a superior product. Microsoft is making sure that, no matter what crap they put out, people will stick to it because "you can't use iPods, printers or Live Messenger in Linux".

Making yourself look good is hard, making the others looks bad is much easier, specially for something people can't find out easily. For most users, even burning a live cd is beyond their abilities. And somehow people has to justify buying crap: "Yeah, Vista sucks, but you can't do this, this and that on Linux".

I'm not saying that every MS product sucks, of course. Hope you get the idea ;)

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Wed 9th Sep 2009 03:44 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by kaiwai"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Because honest comparisons will work if and only if you have a superior product. Microsoft is making sure that, no matter what crap they put out, people will stick to it because "you can't use iPods, printers or Live Messenger in Linux".

Making yourself look good is hard, making the others looks bad is much easier, specially for something people can't find out easily. For most users, even burning a live cd is beyond their abilities. And somehow people has to justify buying crap: "Yeah, Vista sucks, but you can't do this, this and that on Linux".[/quote]

It wouldn't be too difficult though - talk about Microsoft and their relationship with big name software vendors who make desktop applications and games. They could easily say, "Linux is a great operating system but end users need more than just a great operating system - they need game, applications and hardware support". It wouldn't be a lie, it wouldn't be a baseless attack and more importantly it would be speaking to the end user.

[quote]I'm not saying that every MS product sucks, of course. Hope you get the idea ;)


Microsoft's operating system I found has always been horrible from a GUI and functionality perspective but their middleware I've never had problems with.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by kaiwai
by merkoth on Wed 9th Sep 2009 04:10 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai"
merkoth Member since:
2006-09-22

I agree, but with your method some people could think of evaluating the competition (ie. "Right, but I need this PC for X reason that doesn't involve big apps nor games, maybe Linux would do?") and MS won't allow that.

I know that the FUD acronym grew very old very quickly, but in this case, spreading FUD makes sure customers won't even think of using anything else but MS products.

It's quite amusing how hard MS tries to suffocate competition when, most of the times, their best products came from the pressure of falling behind competitors.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Wed 9th Sep 2009 05:38 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by kaiwai"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

I agree, but with your method some people could think of evaluating the competition (ie. "Right, but I need this PC for X reason that doesn't involve big apps nor games, maybe Linux would do?") and MS won't allow that.

I know that the FUD acronym grew very old very quickly, but in this case, spreading FUD makes sure customers won't even think of using anything else but MS products.

It's quite amusing how hard MS tries to suffocate competition when, most of the times, their best products came from the pressure of falling behind competitors.


Reminds me of the lady in Australia who didn't know that Mac's had Microsoft Office and she could bring home documents form work and work on them at home. For Microsoft they bank on that kind of ignorance. What stuck in my head was what she said: "if more people knew that, I think there would be a lot more people using Mac's".

Just a side note: my dad has a Dell Inspiron 1318 running ArchLinux + GNOME + OpenOffice.org for his work; he is pretty damn happy with how things are going.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by kaiwai
by Soulbender on Wed 9th Sep 2009 11:46 UTC in reply to "Comment by kaiwai"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

um, anyone realise that it is the PARENTS responsibility to regulate children's behaviour and not the computer.


Oh come on, don't be silly. That's dangerously close to actually being a responsible parent and taking an interest in what your child is doing. What kind of hippie nonsense is that?

Reply Score: 3

Comment by merkoth
by merkoth on Wed 9th Sep 2009 02:31 UTC
merkoth
Member since:
2006-09-22

Yes, it's cheap.

But then again, it's marketing. I used to work at a computer shop where we offered an extremely crappy AV system. Every single month we would receive some lectures about how good it was and how nice persons we were for offering it to our customers.

And you know what? Some people eventually started believing it and recommending whole-heartedly the product.

On the other hand, some of us refused to lure our customers, but guess which group got more frequent promotions?

Reply Score: 2

Thanks Best Buy!
by evilshenaniganz on Wed 9th Sep 2009 03:00 UTC
evilshenaniganz
Member since:
2007-11-24

And to think I was almost fresh out of reasons never to set foot in your stores again! Clutch move! You've talked me away from the (sliding glass) edge once again!

Reply Score: 3

UltraZelda64
Member since:
2006-12-05

Seriously. Windows, with Windows XP (SP2 and up) and Windows 7, has finally started to become less of a joke technically and an overall-better competitor. Why can't Microsoft just shut their f***ing mouths and let their products do the talking, instead of outright lying and spreading poorly-explained FUD?

It's this FUD primarily, as well as their lockdown (DRM, WGA, regkeys), lock-in and lack of interoperability (filesystems, document and media formats), disgustingly over-priced products, their upgrade$$$ treadmill, and perception that they "own" and "control" everything on your computer if it runs Windows that pisses me off the most about the company these days. Hell, with the patent threats, they seem to think they "own" your computer, whether Windows or a Microsoft filesystem has ever seen the light of day on it or not.

Just when they put out something decent, they always find a way to lose that trust again. Way to go, Microsoft... I'm quite happy on my "Linux" system, though.

Edited 2009-09-09 03:15 UTC

Reply Score: 4

Ah, the moral dilemma
by coreyography on Wed 9th Sep 2009 03:46 UTC
coreyography
Member since:
2009-03-06

Let's say you are the rare Best Buy employee who actually has used both Windows and Linux, understands the strengths and weaknesses of each, and where each is the right tool for the job. Do you a) tell Microsoft you and your principles can't be bought for (Win7 ridiculous MSRP) - $10? Or b) take the training class and your $10 Win7 -- the article didn't say you actually had to _sell_ Win7 over Linux, right?

(Um, is that Win7 the Home Crippled version, or Ultimate? ;)

My apologies to any competent Best Buy employees out there. Most of the ones I have met are teenagers or college kids, there for the job, without much passion for, and consequently knowledge of, the technology they peddle.

It looks like Win7 is pretty good (SMB sploits notwithstanding). But it's overpriced. I won't buy it unless I find it for <= $100 US for at least the Professional version. It's just not worth more than that over XP.

My other observation is that if I pulled something like this with a customer, or let a supplier influence me like this where I work, I'd be summarily fired for code-of-conduct violations. I think if Red Hat or Canonical filed suit, they'd have a case.

Edited 2009-09-09 03:50 UTC

Reply Score: 4

Compare this to windows 7 sins
by Jonix on Wed 9th Sep 2009 07:19 UTC
Jonix
Member since:
2007-02-14

The mud pie throwing is now at full speed. FSF has recently opened their windows7sins.org which creates FUD for all the sins that are Windows, and Microsoft is telling Best buy customers how bad GNU/Linux really are.

I prefer GNU/Linux with all the choice that it includes, but FSF with windows7sins.org is just as bad.

Reply Score: 3

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

The mud pie throwing is now at full speed. FSF has recently opened their windows7sins.org which creates FUD for all the sins that are Windows, and Microsoft is telling Best buy customers how bad GNU/Linux really are.

And the sad thing is that we could have claimed the high ground if RMS and his fanatic followers hadn't eroded it so badly.

Reply Score: 1

It says something about their product
by spinnekopje on Wed 9th Sep 2009 07:29 UTC
spinnekopje
Member since:
2008-11-29

This kind of actions give me the feeling there is something wrong with their product. Most probably things we don't know about (yet).

I use linux as main OS and I don't understand why MS is so scared about it. If the linux community can give hardware vendors a good reason to write good drivers than MS should start to be scared...
As long as the linux community asks for good drivers but at the same time says they only want open source ones, linux will never beat windows on that very important point.

Reply Score: 1

Jokel Member since:
2006-06-01

Well - I think you are "on" to something. There must be something wrong with Windows 7 if they put so much time and effort in a smear campaign against an OS that's only said to have 1% of the market.

Oh - and about the "Linux community"....

I think you are confusing a small (but vocal) minority of purists with a huge majority of just ordinary users. I belong to that latest group, and I can assure you I don't give a dime if a driver is closed or open source. I use the closed source NVIDIA drivers an I am very pleased with the very good performance they give.

I would like to see the majority of Linux users not be punished for the outbursts from the small minority of purists (well - you can always dream hm?).

Back to Windows 7. I tried the latest RC and can say it is a decent product. Despite the enthusiasm outed by a few reviewers, my impression is it is faster than Vista, but in no way as fast as XP. Overall impression is decent, but not exiting. To be earnest - I think Windows 7 is a bit boring. I "played" with it for a while, but find myself closing it down after a relatively short time. I sit behind the screen and say to myself "ohh-kaay - it runs. So what?"

I have been troubleshooter in large Windows (and UNIX) networks for years, so I am very familiar with both systems (yeah - I know, I know - UNIX is not exactly Linux, but anyway). With XP (and NT) I felt comfortable and "at home". This is not longer the case with Windows 7. I feel more "at home" with Linux (Mandriva 2009.1) at this moment. I do not "hate" Windows, but I do not feel comfortable with it any longer. I guess once I tasted the freedom Linux offers me, I felt "locked in" and restricted when using Windows. I have no better explanation.

This feeling is increased by actions like this "education" of sales people....

Reply Score: 3

Laurence
Member since:
2007-03-26

what do you, the loyal reader, think about this campaign?

Disgusted, yet somewhat unsurprised.

MS motto:
If first you don't succeed; then lie, cheat and bribe.

I'd love to think this degree of FUD is illegal and MS could be told to cease and desist, but sadly it's a difficult case to prove and Linux is too segmented to fight a unified counter attack.

Reply Score: 3

FUD - like in those good ol' OS/2 times
by warpcafe on Wed 9th Sep 2009 09:53 UTC
warpcafe
Member since:
2009-09-09

Oh, -yawn- they did it again?

That's the same thing they did when they literally "hired" people to FUD against OS/2 years ago (or was that "decades ago" by now?).
They seem to be become very desperate at Redmond if they are willing to take such ridiculous attempts. Linux has obtained a different flavor of "critical mass" - in different areas than OS/2 at that time. And there's much more acceptance by (different types of!) users with Linux than with OS/2. Let's sit back, take a good laugh at them and then get back to more important things...

Cheers
Thomas

Reply Score: 2

hmm.
by graigsmith on Wed 9th Sep 2009 12:22 UTC
graigsmith
Member since:
2006-04-05

you should hear what the apple store guy says about microsoft products while in best buy. im sure apple does the same thing.

Reply Score: 1

Not surprising
by Drunkula on Wed 9th Sep 2009 12:47 UTC
Drunkula
Member since:
2009-09-03

I hate to admit it but I like Win 7. BUT I still give GNU/Linux the nod for better reliability.

Hmmm? If I were so inclined I'd put together an inverse presentation about how proprietary OS from mega-corporations suck compared to an OS that doesn't lock you into their bloatware. Of course I'd offer a free copy of a Linux distro - free (of course) on completing it. But I'd also offer it free without having to complete it.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Not surprising
by graigsmith on Thu 10th Sep 2009 04:07 UTC in reply to "Not surprising"
graigsmith Member since:
2006-04-05

yeah windows 7 is nice. and as for better stability. mabey debian linux, where your software is a year behind all the new stuff coming out. windows 7 has been on my system since the release candidate and it has seriously not crashed a single time. i had the video driver quit. but it reloaded and just like that everything was ready to go again. then i upgraded my driver, and diddn't even have to reboot.

i used ubuntu for 2 years, and it is nothing near the stability of windows 7. and alot of that is the fault of the video drivers provided by ati and nvidia. but hey, open source is where the framework came from. things are only as stable as their framework. And with every driver under the sun loaded into the kernel, any bit of buggyness is going to bring it down. Linux used to have the one up on microsoft on stability. i wouldn't say that's the case anymore.

Reply Score: 1

Many thanks to Balmer
by Janvl on Wed 9th Sep 2009 14:15 UTC
Janvl
Member since:
2007-02-20

Let us thank Steve for his stupidity, the community cannot finance a large advertising campaign but with this lies, that are so obvious, Steve is doing us the biggest favour ever, giving us a campaign that make people curious about Linux.

Keep up this kind of "intelligence" Steve B., you are the best advocate for Linux the world has produced so far.

BTW win7 is not so bad either.

Reply Score: 1

Best Buy Drones
by kenji on Wed 9th Sep 2009 15:23 UTC
kenji
Member since:
2009-04-08

It is sad that so many Americans think that the people that work at Best Buy are knowledgeable, dependable and looking out for the customer. I don't think that this is the fault of the employees, but the way in which Best Buy trains them. As far as I know, this type of marketing driven 'training' is the basis of the salespeoples' product knowledge. Hardware and software vendors send representatives to the store to 'train' them on how to sell the products most effectively.

They only know market-speak not real knowledge. To think that they really know what they are talking about is absurd.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by antilock_brakes
by antilock_brakes on Wed 9th Sep 2009 15:53 UTC
antilock_brakes
Member since:
2009-09-09

I apologize if I repeat anything that's been said, first off.

This training is not available to just Best Buy employees. I work for another employer that sells electronics, and the site is readily available to any retail employee provided you give them your place of work. Hell, you only need a Windows Live or Hotmail ID to log in.

You take quite a few little training courses, not just one covering Linux, obviously with a heavy Microsoft bias, and at the end *while supplies last* you are offered a copy of Windows 7 Ultimate at ten bucks.

Yes, that particular course is heavy anti-Linux, but in terms of what retail employees encounter on a daily basis it is somewhat true.

Aside from you all-knowing wonders who decide to grace us with your presence, many people who come in to look at computers (especially in higher traffic retail channels) only have a slight grasp on how they actually work, and that slight grasp is based on using a Microsoft product. Every now and again a more advanced user will come in to shop, but that's a bit of a rarity. While the audience on here will certainly give exceptions about a friend/significant other/etc. taking to a Linux distribution like a fish to water, most customers look at me completely dumbstruck when I say "Linux".

I know I'm pissing into the wind here, especially considering the tone of the article and the comments posted, but right now Windows 7 is the superior option for an *AVERAGE* retail customer, simply because it is a Microsoft product and when the computer shits itself (and they all do at one point or another) there are innumerable more support channels that the customer will be able to pursue.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by antilock_brakes
by coreyography on Thu 10th Sep 2009 00:11 UTC in reply to "Comment by antilock_brakes"
coreyography Member since:
2009-03-06

...right now Windows 7 is the superior option for an *AVERAGE* retail customer, simply because it is a Microsoft product and when the computer shits itself (and they all do at one point or another) there are innumerable more support channels that the customer will be able to pursue.


Yeah, me and others like me: computer-savvy friends, relatives, and coworkers. I'm going to end up with a copy of Windows 7 to help me help my family and friends with their new, incontinent machines.

Fortunately they all heard about Vista on their own, and stayed away, so I didn't have to deal with that much :-D.

Edited 2009-09-10 00:14 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Comment by daedalus8
by daedalus8 on Wed 9th Sep 2009 16:08 UTC
daedalus8
Member since:
2008-03-10

I like the "It's more secure" part.. LOLz

Please read the articles below to find a 0day exploit!! Affecting Win7/Win Srv 08. Just uber owned. I can't believe this BS.

http://isc.sans.org/diary.html?storyid=7093

And here's some sample code for those that can do ASM ;)

http://www.reversemode.com/index.php?option=com_mamblog&Itemid=15&t...

Anyways, I believe that MS scare tactics are just way overboard and needs to stop. You should sell your product by showing how much better it is rather than showing how much worse the others are.

I do agree that there's areas where Linux has to work quite a bit, but I also believe that the market share of the OS is also a factor. If I'm a company making a game I will target the OS with the biggest footprint (Windows).

That's my two cents.

Reply Score: 2

damn
by po134 on Wed 9th Sep 2009 16:23 UTC
po134
Member since:
2009-05-15

the author obviously didn't take the time to inform himself @ www.microsoft.com/getthefacts, all the facts are there.

Damn that felt go, no kidding! The part with the 10$ copy of w7 is a great incentive for the seller to promote Microsoft's product and it's pretty smart marketing to aim at the seller instead of the buyer directly, that part of their advertising was already covered.

Very smart move, but they shouldn't feel the need to put things like live essentials, their library of apps, games, support, peace of mind and familiarity should suffice, after all even I wouldn't use linux so I won't recommend it to anybody, just not for most of the reasons mentioned in their "course" ;)

Edited 2009-09-09 16:24 UTC

Reply Score: 1

my email to bestbuy
by yossarianuk on Wed 9th Sep 2009 17:33 UTC
yossarianuk
Member since:
2009-04-01

I am a former customer of yours.

Having seen the 'training' that Microsoft is giving your staff regarding other operating systems

i.e : http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/09/06/microsoft-indoctrinates-best...

I will not be shopping with you anymore until I have heard you have stopped this method of training and you have issued a full apology, I will also be advising everybody I know to also shop elsewhere - this is a shame for you as I am the local techy and there about 30-40 people who ask me for advice when it comes to purchasing computer equipment.

By the sounds of it you should be spending money on actually training your staff with technical knowledge instead of lies.

I wonder what damage the revelation has done to your business.

Many regards

Reply Score: 1

First they ignore you...
by just-me on Wed 9th Sep 2009 19:24 UTC
just-me
Member since:
2009-09-09

"First they ignore you..."
"Then they laugh at you..."

So we're through the first 2 stages and have now reached the
"Then they fight you..."
phase.

Will take a while - but only 1 phase left after that. ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtdnZNYN0MM
("Truth happens" by Red Hat)

MS is loosing market share - both to MacOS and Linux. Slowly for now - but gradually.
Vista was a flop and a marketing debacle.
W7 will recover some of that - but it will only help delay the trend away from MS Windows.
Whole government departments move away from windows for cost, security and political reasons.

Cloud computing is bad for Windows.
VMs on servers is bad for Windows.
On Netbooks MS could only compete by giving away an obsolete version for almost free. They were forced to do so because they couldn't risk that millions of regular users could buy pre-installed Linux Machines (removing most of the typical problems that new users have with Linux) and find out that running FF on Linux is basically the same click-click as on windows.

The fight will be interesting, but in the long run MS can't win.

Prediction: Windows will eventually go open source (in ca a decade I guess) and be given away so MS can still sell services and add-on products (eventually following IBMs lead).
Yeah - sounds radical now - but the software market has changed many times (and it wasn't always dominated by MS). IMHO MS hardly has a fighting chance. It's just happening so gradually that people don't quite realize it. And most people underestimate the speed at which Linux improves while Windows glacially crawls to its doom.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Stephen!
by Stephen! on Sat 12th Sep 2009 23:07 UTC
Stephen!
Member since:
2007-11-24

How come BSD never gets attacked by Microsoft?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Stephen!
by sbergman27 on Sat 12th Sep 2009 23:11 UTC in reply to "Comment by Stephen!"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

How come BSD never gets attacked by Microsoft?


1. It's not perceived as so much of a threat.
2. It's not copylefted.

Edited 2009-09-12 23:11 UTC

Reply Score: 2