Linked by Jordan Spencer Cunningham on Wed 9th Sep 2009 21:36 UTC, submitted by Moulinneuf
Apple After back and forth rumors about the health of Apple's revered Steve Jobs way back in last year and the beginning of 2009, it turned out that he really did have some health problems: complications with his liver requiring a transplant. It was supposed that he'd return to Apple by the end of June, and now he's finally made his first public appearance since he first took his medical leave of absence earlier this year.
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Comment by macUser
by macUser on Wed 9th Sep 2009 21:45 UTC
macUser
Member since:
2006-12-15

Are you sure it wasn't a Pystar clone running JobsOS?

Reply Score: 7

RE: Comment by macUser
by Karitku on Thu 10th Sep 2009 06:46 UTC in reply to "Comment by macUser"
Karitku Member since:
2006-01-12

Are you sure it wasn't a Pystar clone running JobsOS?

Nono, JobsOS is virus free, that's why he recovered so fast.

Reply Score: 3

"...one more thing"
by poundsmack on Wed 9th Sep 2009 21:51 UTC
poundsmack
Member since:
2005-07-13

"Apple debuts industries lightest, thinnest CEO" ;)

I kid, its good to see Jobs back on his feet. couldn't help laught when he made the comment encouraging everyone to be an organ doner. I could just imagine him looking at everyone as they were appouding thinking, "excelent, the more doners the more organs, I will live forever!!!"

Reply Score: 7

RE: "...one more thing"
by rajan r on Thu 10th Sep 2009 06:31 UTC in reply to ""...one more thing""
rajan r Member since:
2005-07-27

Hmm, I think I shall have an organ doner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doner) roll for dinner.

Reply Score: 3

RE: "...one more thing"
by mgl.branco on Thu 10th Sep 2009 18:36 UTC in reply to ""...one more thing""
mgl.branco Member since:
2009-07-22

"I could just imagine him looking at everyone as they were appouding thinking, "excellent, the more doners the more organs, I will live forever!!!"


I cannot decide if your comment is just black humour or the most horrendous and cruel one I have ever read.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: "...one more thing"
by BallmerKnowsBest on Thu 10th Sep 2009 20:56 UTC in reply to "RE: "...one more thing""
BallmerKnowsBest Member since:
2008-06-02

""I could just imagine him looking at everyone as they were appouding thinking, "excellent, the more doners the more organs, I will live forever!!!"


I cannot decide if your comment is just black humour or the most horrendous and cruel one I have ever read.
"

Oh c'mon, what's horrendous about suggesting that Steve Jobs hungers for the flesh of the living?

Reply Score: 2

Comment by haus
by haus on Wed 9th Sep 2009 22:20 UTC
haus
Member since:
2009-08-18

"it turned out that he really did have some health problems"

This sounds like a "hah, I told you so." Was the fact that he had health problems ever in doubt. He took a very public medical leave of absence.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by haus
by tomcat on Wed 9th Sep 2009 22:32 UTC in reply to "Comment by haus"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

"it turned out that he really did have some health problems" This sounds like a "hah, I told you so." Was the fact that he had health problems ever in doubt. He took a very public medical leave of absence.


Oh, c'mon. Apple denied Jobs's health problems for a long time, and Jobs wasn't forthcoming when he claimed that he was taking leave for a "hormone deficiency". In fact, he left to have a liver transplant, and "hormone deficiency" issues were a symptom, not the cause of his departure. Apple and Jobs said what they said in order to blunt the impact on Apple stock. We should all be used to the stream of lies by now.

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: Comment by haus
by haus on Wed 9th Sep 2009 22:34 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by haus"
haus Member since:
2009-08-18

Didn't it start off with a hormone deficiency and then progress to what would ultimately be a liver transplant? At least that is what Apple said.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by haus
by tomcat on Wed 9th Sep 2009 22:40 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by haus"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Didn't it start off with a hormone deficiency and then progress to what would ultimately be a liver transplant? At least that is what Apple said.


No way. Jobs reported his "hormone imbalance" in January, and had a liver transplant by June. It's simply not credible to conclude that he didn't know the true nature of his condition at the point he took his medical leave.

Edited 2009-09-09 22:48 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by haus
by sbergman27 on Wed 9th Sep 2009 22:49 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by haus"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

I don't think so. Doctors would have evaluated Jobs's "hormone deficiency" to determine its cause, and they would have found the problem with his liver.

Most stockholders would never note the difference between "hormone" and "enzyme". I've never heard a doctor fretting particularly about anyone's liver hormones. It seems pretty logical that measured liver enzyme levels pointed to his liver problem.

What destroyed his liver in the first place, I wonder?

And... how did he get a new one so fast, with so many other people waiting? Did it have anything to do with his money?

Oh, and doesn't he look skeletal these days...

Edited 2009-09-09 23:02 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Comment by haus
by tomcat on Wed 9th Sep 2009 23:02 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by haus"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

"I don't think so. Doctors would have evaluated Jobs's "hormone deficiency" to determine its cause, and they would have found the problem with his liver.
Most stockholders would never note the difference between "hormone" and "enzyme" anyway. I've never heard a doctor fretting particularly about anyone's liver hormones. It seems pretty logical that measured liver enzyme levels pointed to his liver problem. What destroyed his liver in the first place, I wonder? And... how did he get a new one so fast, with so many other people waiting? Did it have anything to do with his money? Oh, and doesn't he look skeletal these days... "

Pancreatic cancer spread to his liver. Of course he got the liver so quickly because of money -- essentially, getting his name onto multiple lists, and paying people full-time to do nothing else than maximize his chances of receiving a liver. The average person could never have gotten one so quickly. Money talks. It's the only reason why Jobs is alive today.

Reply Score: 4

RE[6]: Comment by haus
by abraxas on Thu 10th Sep 2009 14:15 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by haus"
abraxas Member since:
2005-07-07

Pancreatic cancer spread to his liver. Of course he got the liver so quickly because of money -- essentially, getting his name onto multiple lists, and paying people full-time to do nothing else than maximize his chances of receiving a liver. The average person could never have gotten one so quickly. Money talks. It's the only reason why Jobs is alive today.


More BS without any evidence. The sickest patients go to the top of the transplant list and Jobs was on death's door. It's possible he got bumped up on the list because of wealth or celebrity but you're basing everything you have said on your own opinion and not on a single fact. If you're going to bash someone who almost died from disease you should at least back it up with at least one fact. Otherwise you just look like an asshole.

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: Comment by haus
by TechGeek on Thu 10th Sep 2009 14:24 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by haus"
TechGeek Member since:
2006-01-14

Actually the facts are pretty well known. Jobs registered on every transplant list in the country. To get on a list, you have to go through the entire battery of tests for each list. Normal insurance doesn't pay for that, or for transportation. He also has to be able to get to the hospital within 24 hours. So having a private plane certainly helps. The transplant was NOT done in CA, so he got the liver from a list he travelled to. He got the liver because he had the money to do these things. The problem is that he took a liver that probably would have saved someone else's life, who didnt have a fortune at their disposal.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Comment by haus
by UltraZelda64 on Thu 10th Sep 2009 08:24 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by haus"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

What destroyed his liver in the first place, I wonder?

Good question... but Steve/Apple will probably never tell the truth...

And... how did he get a new one so fast, with so many other people waiting? Did it have anything to do with his money?

Ding ding ding ding ding. Obviously. I mean, come on... he's Steve Jobs. Even if he, for some reason, didn't have the money for the best doctors and highest chance of survival out there (ha ha...), Apple the company would be quick to bail his ass out of death's grasp. If for no other reason other than to save their own asses, as a corporation, from a quickly-succeeding demise.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by haus
by TechGeek on Thu 10th Sep 2009 14:18 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by haus"
TechGeek Member since:
2006-01-14

I think what Tomcat was getting at was that Jobs got on every list in the country. Only someone with money can do that and it greatly increases his chances for a transplant. But since there aren't enough livers, the one he got would have gone to someone else who couldn't afford to fly all over the country. In essence, he bumped someone down the list, possibly killing them. And since it wasn't done where he lived, the only reason he got it was because of his money. Which is a crappy way for the system to work. I don't know if I blame Jobs, as much as the faulty system.

Reply Score: 4

RE[7]: Comment by haus
by David on Thu 10th Sep 2009 18:50 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by haus"
David Member since:
1997-10-01

On the other hand, he most certainly also would have died without the liver transplant too, so it's a case where someone (Jobs) got a liver transplant who needed one to live. Somewhere, someone whose liver disease isn't as serious, was bumped down a list. Someone else might die, or maybe not. Honestly, if two people have exactly the same likelihood of dying, and both need a transplant equally, it's not an easy task to choose who gets it and who doesn't. Isn't that person's willingness/ability to pay more just as good a way of deciding as any?

Truth is, if you have lots of money/power, your life is going to be better in a lot of ways, including some aspects of health outcomes, and this will happen in even the most egalitarian society. That's why everyone strives to be successful and make more money, and to some extent, we're all better off because everyone's working so hard.

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: Comment by haus
by tomcat on Fri 11th Sep 2009 04:18 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by haus"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

I think what Tomcat was getting at was that Jobs got on every list in the country. Only someone with money can do that and it greatly increases his chances for a transplant. But since there aren't enough livers, the one he got would have gone to someone else who couldn't afford to fly all over the country. In essence, he bumped someone down the list, possibly killing them. And since it wasn't done where he lived, the only reason he got it was because of his money. Which is a crappy way for the system to work. I don't know if I blame Jobs, as much as the faulty system.


That's precisely what I was saying. Jobs bought his liver. Somebody else who probably couldn't afford to get on every transplant list may have died because of this inequity. So, forgive me for not jumping for joy that Jobs is alive today.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by haus
by abraxas on Thu 10th Sep 2009 14:08 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by haus"
abraxas Member since:
2005-07-07

No way. Jobs reported his "hormone imbalance" in January, and had a liver transplant by June. It's simply not credible to conclude that he didn't know the true nature of his condition at the point he took his medical leave.


So you're a doctor now? I think it's pretty arrogant to assume you know exactly what happened behind the scenes based on absolutely zero evidence other than your own preconceived notions.

Reply Score: 3

Correction
by kenji on Wed 9th Sep 2009 23:15 UTC
kenji
Member since:
2009-04-08

Now that Steve is back, taking the rains from those he left in charge to hold the fort, and apparently recovering from his surgery quite well, I suppose things will go on as normal.

That would be reins, not rains.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Correction
by sbergman27 on Wed 9th Sep 2009 23:25 UTC in reply to "Correction"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

That would be reins, not rains.

Would it? With all the iPod and iPhone explosions in the news, exposures of very questionable business practices, and embarrassing revelations of their heavy handed legal tactics against the families of the victims of their defective products, etc. I should say that "taking back the rains" would not be an inappropriate phrasing.

Edited 2009-09-09 23:28 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Correction
by umccullough on Wed 9th Sep 2009 23:27 UTC in reply to "Correction"
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

Now that Steve is back, taking the rains from those he left in charge to hold the fort, and apparently recovering from his surgery quite well, I suppose things will go on as normal.

That would be reins, not rains.


Or maybe reign is more appropriate ;)

Reply Score: 7

Good for Him!
by Shakey on Thu 10th Sep 2009 01:09 UTC
Shakey
Member since:
2005-10-11

It's good to see Mr. Jobs back in action. I just say this because it warms my heart to see anyone who has battled a serious illness back living out their dreams.

Reply Score: 1

v RE: Good for Him!
by tomcat on Thu 10th Sep 2009 02:00 UTC in reply to "Good for Him!"
RE[2]: Good for Him!
by tobyv on Thu 10th Sep 2009 04:41 UTC in reply to "RE: Good for Him!"
tobyv Member since:
2008-08-25

They would be if their dream was of a new model iPod, and to not get a liver transplant.

:(

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Good for Him!
by UltraZelda64 on Thu 10th Sep 2009 08:32 UTC in reply to "RE: Good for Him!"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

I wonder which transplant candidate died because Stevie bought their liver. Guess they're not going to be "living out their dreams", eh?

From TFA, some person (sex unknown) in their mid-twenties who died in a car accident. And likely poor as hell compared to Jobs, the recipient of their liver. Quite sad, really. ;)

Money can get you anything. Steve has tons of it, and was able to buy someone's liver and likely top-notch doctors to keep himself alive... a luxury most people don't have. But the donor had a very young, unnecessary death... and Steve is going to continue profiting the hell out of Apple... just like he's always done... only now with someone else's body liver.

Words can't describe how I feel about this situation.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Good for Him!
by rockwell on Mon 14th Sep 2009 15:02 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Good for Him!"
rockwell Member since:
2005-09-13

I think tomcat is referring to one of the thousands of other folks awaiting a liver transplant, whom have been on the waiting list a lot longer than Jobs has.

Reply Score: 2

Oh Dear Folks
by alcibiades on Thu 10th Sep 2009 06:02 UTC
alcibiades
Member since:
2005-10-12

I'm no admirer of either Jobs, Apple or its products, but many of these remarks are really in rather bad taste. You do have to agree that Apple and Jobs misled the investing and buying public on the issue of his health. But we should don't have to descend to this level to acknowledge that.

Surely the interesting thing about the event was how little there was that is new? Two things strike me. One, that the iPod/iTunes saga is cresting and going over the top. Its not going to be a source of great growth from here on in. It was interesting that they did not bring out the greatly demanded camera, speculation being that it was a desire not to cannibalize iPhones. That is a warning signal - when you start takimng features the public wants out of your products in case it allows that same public to buy some rather than others, you are in danger. If you don't cannibalize your products, others will.

Notice, this is the same basic marketing strategy of forcing people to buy something more than or different from what they really want, in order to get some feature. In this case its, you want an Apple camera equipped device playing music, the entry price is an iPhone. Like it or lump it. Similar to the strategy of, if you want the OS, buy some hardware you may or may not want. Its really questionable how sustainable this is.

The second interesting thing is the story making the rounds recently, which OSN elected not to feature, that all carriers lose money on selling and carrying iPhones. This is the dog that did not bark at this event. It can't carry on forever, carriers being asked to treat Apple as a charity.

I'm not saying Apple is doomed, it has huge momentum behind it, and a fanatical consumer cult. But I do think evidence is building up that more growth is built into the stock price than exists in the product range at present. And evidence is building up that the marketing strategy of compulsory linked purchases may be coming to a point of consumer resistance outside the inner circle of fanatics.

We may turn out to be living in interesting times.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Oh Dear Folks
by Tony Swash on Thu 10th Sep 2009 15:27 UTC in reply to "Oh Dear Folks"
Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

I'm no admirer of either Jobs, Apple or its products, but many of these remarks are really in rather bad taste. You do have to agree that Apple and Jobs misled the investing and buying public on the issue of his health. But we should don't have to descend to this level to acknowledge that.

I'm not saying Apple is doomed, it has huge momentum behind it, and a fanatical consumer cult. But I do think evidence is building up that more growth is built into the stock price than exists in the product range at present. And evidence is building up that the marketing strategy of compulsory linked purchases may be coming to a point of consumer resistance outside the inner circle of fanatics.

We may turn out to be living in interesting times.



I agree that much of the comment about Steve's health is just poor taste or maybe immaturity, or maybe it comes from people who have yet to lose someone they love to a terrible illness (an experience we will all encounter if we are lucky enough to both love and live long enough). I happen to despise Steve Ballmer with a passion but if he had come back from an illness like Steve Job's I would be moved and supportive. We are, after all, all human.

I disagree when it comes to your analysis of the current position of Apple. A few points in response.

The sale of dedicated mp3 players may be at a plateau (a plateau that all Apples competitors would love to be able to get close to) but the sale of iPods continues to grow because iPhones are also iPods and the iPhone is flying off the shelf. What Apple is doing is putting its operating system into tens of millions of pockets, a process I expect to continue and to accelerate and a healthy music business will be part, but only part, of that model.

The point about "a point of consumer resistance outside the inner circle of fanatics" is just risible. Lets think - here is a company that has sold over 100 million iPods, continues to sell millions of iPods, is selling millions of iPhones as fast as they can make them, has sold getting on for 2 billion apps in the first year of the App Store and who offers at least ten times the number of apps than on any similar device. The gap between Apple and its nearest competitors is growing not shrinking. The notion that all this indicates some sort of turn against the company by consumers is wacky.

The way Apple rolls out iPod and iPhone products has to be carefully judged because they are their own biggest competitor. No other company is threatening to take any significant part of the iPod business from Apple (no other company is close) and Apple continues to eat aggressively into the smart phone market and to take significant business away from the established players in that market. So Apple will continue to roll out its product launches and add features in a way that creates a neatly segmented market for its products.

The results of Apples purchase last year of semi conductor business P.A. Semi has yet to reach the market - I strongly suspect that when the products arising from that investment do reach the market the impact will be huge. Apple makes very few purchases and all are deeply strategic, and in the past all have eventually led to major strategic moves. Another such move is coming. We are indeed living in interesting times

Reply Score: 2

you can also see how weird it all is
by alcibiades on Thu 10th Sep 2009 06:48 UTC
alcibiades
Member since:
2005-10-12

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/blog/2009/sep/09/apple-live

You can also see how weird the whole thing is by reading this blow by blow account of the event. Absolutely extraordinary, there are essentially no significant product announcements, and yet this almost total lack of news is being broadcast with bated breath, line by line. WTF is with these people? There is really nothing here at all, and yet, just because it is Apple, we have media hysteria. And presumably this is in response to fan hysteria? Weird or what?

The guardian does have, on its technology page, a story that is connected and does make some approach to journalism, where they discuss estimates of the installed base of iPods, and how many of the sales may be repeat sales to existing owners, and point out that there may be far fewer 'installed systems' from a music industry point of view than the sales figures suggest. Now that is interesting.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Thu 10th Sep 2009 16:38 UTC
kaiwai
Member since:
2005-07-06

I must have been the only person who shuddered when I saw the beginning of the video - the almost cult like adulation of people standing up, stomping their feet and clapping their hands. Sure, he is the CEO of Apple but there is no need to go over board. I was wondering whether someone from the crowd would throw their knickers on the stage.

As for the product line up, I'm annoyed they didn't add a camera to the iPod Touch; but I'm still looking at getting the 64gb model.

Edited 2009-09-10 16:39 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by kaiwai
by abraxas on Thu 10th Sep 2009 18:07 UTC in reply to "Comment by kaiwai"
abraxas Member since:
2005-07-07

I must have been the only person who shuddered when I saw the beginning of the video - the almost cult like adulation of people standing up, stomping their feet and clapping their hands. Sure, he is the CEO of Apple but there is no need to go over board.


I think you're misinterpreting the applause. There seems to be a general cultural difference between the US and other democratic societies where anyone in the US who has overcome adversity, beaten the odds, or conquered disease is adulated. The praise isn't because of who Jobs is as the CEO of Apple but who Jobs is as a survivor. You just don't seem to get the same kind of intense emotions from other western cultures.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by kaiwai
by alcibiades on Thu 10th Sep 2009 18:09 UTC in reply to "Comment by kaiwai"
alcibiades Member since:
2005-10-12

No you were not the only person.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by kaiwai
by Chicken Blood on Fri 11th Sep 2009 00:01 UTC in reply to "Comment by kaiwai"
Chicken Blood Member since:
2005-12-21

I must have been the only person who shuddered when I saw the beginning of the video - the almost cult like adulation of people standing up, stomping their feet and clapping their hands. Sure, he is the CEO of Apple but there is no need to go over board. I was wondering whether someone from the crowd would throw their knickers on the stage.


I think they were cheering because he has been very ill and it was his first public appearance since his leave of absence. I'm not really sure why you find that something to shudder at.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Fri 11th Sep 2009 01:23 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by kaiwai"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

I think they were cheering because he has been very ill and it was his first public appearance since his leave of absence. I'm not really sure why you find that something to shudder at.


There is a fine line between polite clapping and going overboard. The crowd at the presentation went overboard. Remember folks, this is Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple - not the second coming of the Messiah.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by kaiwai
by tomcat on Fri 11th Sep 2009 04:21 UTC in reply to "Comment by kaiwai"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

I must have been the only person who shuddered when I saw the beginning of the video - the almost cult like adulation of people standing up, stomping their feet and clapping their hands. Sure, he is the CEO of Apple but there is no need to go over board. I was wondering whether someone from the crowd would throw their knickers on the stage.


You weren't the only one. It's the Cult of Mac (TM). They worship Jobs. He can do no wrong. That's all that's required to be a member.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by kaiwai
by StephenBeDoper on Fri 11th Sep 2009 15:54 UTC in reply to "Comment by kaiwai"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

I was wondering whether someone from the crowd would throw their knickers on the stage.


That happened right before he started speaking in tongues and descending from the stage to cure audience members (via the laying-on of hands) of cancer, blindness, dead pixels on their Macbook screens, and other horrible afflictions.

You missed that part?!?

Reply Score: 2

Admirable
by mgl.branco on Thu 10th Sep 2009 18:49 UTC
mgl.branco
Member since:
2009-07-22

I think it's admirable.

He's wealthy enough. He had no need to return to Apple just yet. He could even not return any more and Apple could go on doing well. But he did. He was courageous enough to stand there clearly emaciated, with half his normal weight, with shaky voice and the first thing he does is thanking the organ donor... and encourage people to donate organs. And it isn't "image" but I think he meant it.

Reply Score: 3

How much money
by Phloptical on Fri 11th Sep 2009 23:23 UTC
Phloptical
Member since:
2006-10-10

did it take for him to get a liver? Organ donors must be pretty plentiful these days.

Some apple fanboy probably donated his own, just so he could die knowing Steve Jobs would live.

Reply Score: 2