Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 24th Sep 2009 00:01 UTC
Gnome Today, the GNOME team has released GNOME 2.28. It builds on the solid foundation laid out by all the previous releases, and adds in a number of new features and improvements, on top of all the bug fixes and performance improvements, of course.
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Comments
by leos on Thu 24th Sep 2009 00:24 UTC
leos
Member since:
2005-09-21

Congrats to Gnome on the release.

Something's up with the fonts on the first screenshot that makes it look pretty awful. Either it's been resized or the hinting is broken.. Not sure but it doesn't make a good first impression.

The tech behind empathy (telepathy) is coming along nicely. It's very quickly becoming the way to create connectivity applications, and we're looking at using it at work for some projects. Very cool stuff.

One bug users may experience in Epiphany, due to the change to WebKit, is not being able to save logins and passwords in forms. This bug will be fixed during the 2.30 development cycle.

Yikes. That's a pretty significant regression. Why was this not a showstopper for the release? I'm sure users could have dealt with gecko for another 6 months. Not being able to save passwords would make me ditch a browser for sure.

Otherwise some nice tweaks. Special kudos for the accessibility work, this is an area that is sorely lacking in most other open source projects.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Comments
by vivainio on Thu 24th Sep 2009 06:44 UTC in reply to "Comments"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26


Something's up with the fonts on the first screenshot that makes it look pretty awful. Either it's been resized or the hinting is broken.. Not sure but it doesn't make a good first impression.


Clearly the image has been resized.



One bug users may experience in Epiphany, due to the change to WebKit, is not being able to save logins and passwords in forms. This bug will be fixed during the 2.30 development cycle.

Yikes. That's a pretty significant regression. Why was this not a showstopper for the release? I'm sure users could have dealt with gecko for another 6 months. Not being able to save passwords would make me ditch a browser for sure.


Some would argue that Epiphany bugs shouldn't prevent a full Gnome release when everyone on Linux is using Firefox anyway.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Comments
by Calipso on Thu 24th Sep 2009 11:51 UTC in reply to "RE: Comments"
Calipso Member since:
2007-03-13

I don't think he meant prevent the gnome release but prevent the switch over to webkit and just release gnome with the old browser.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comments
by kenji on Thu 24th Sep 2009 15:00 UTC in reply to "RE: Comments"
kenji Member since:
2009-04-08

...when everyone on Linux is using Firefox anyway...

Not everyone uses Firefox on Linux. I don't use it exclusively, on any OS.

Where are the numbers that prove that 100% of desktop Linux users run Firefox exclusively?

Now if you had said Ubuntu users, that may be a different animal altogether (no offense meant towards Ubuntu).

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comments
by vivainio on Fri 25th Sep 2009 13:29 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comments"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

It was not meant literally. I don't even use firefox myself. The point is that users who won't tolerate breakage will use ff, while other browsers can have some flaws.

Reply Score: 2

gnome shell
by spikeb on Thu 24th Sep 2009 00:34 UTC
spikeb
Member since:
2006-01-18

gnome-shell is also part of this release. it is merely optional for the time being.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Thu 24th Sep 2009 02:12 UTC
kaiwai
Member since:
2005-07-06

I think one of the biggest things that got me excited is this:

The GNOME Web Browser, Epiphany, has switched to WebKit from Gecko for its rendering engine. With the exception of some performance enhancements, this change should be invisible. Long-term, the switch to WebKit will have significant benefits to Epiphany users. Switching to WebKit also fixes a number of long-standing bugs in Epiphany due to the old Gecko-based backend. You are encouraged to test this new version to confirm if your older problems have been solved.


GNOME is now hooked into the fast developing rendering and javascript support - as much as some here love Ghecko, I for one am happy to see it go. In the future it'll mean that new technologies will make their way quicker into Webkit (especially when it comes to acid test results) and better support for Google services.

Hopefully they'll speed up the removing of deprecated parts so that the installation of GNOME becomes smaller and less parts reliant on rickety components.

Edited 2009-09-24 02:12 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Small improvements
by ParanoidAndroid on Thu 24th Sep 2009 09:11 UTC
ParanoidAndroid
Member since:
2006-03-26

The improvements seem nice but scarce so isn't this more a bug fix release instead of a new version?

Reply Score: 2

Better and better
by another_sam on Thu 24th Sep 2009 09:14 UTC
another_sam
Member since:
2009-08-19

I like how the GNOME improvement process performs.

Focused, and nice, but noticeable. Without wasting energy on meaningless changes, and without willing to break up all on each release, but replacing/improving internal key components whenever it is convenient and possible.

However, despite of all the pleasant experience with 2.16 - 2.28 release history, I'm kind of stressed thinking that 3.0 will be sort of a hell of new-everything where I won't know how to use almost anything. Vista and KDE 4.0 are traumatic instances. Hopefully GNOME will not commit the same mistake.

Edited 2009-09-24 09:15 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Better and better
by Sodki on Thu 24th Sep 2009 10:01 UTC in reply to "Better and better"
Sodki Member since:
2005-11-10

However, despite of all the pleasant experience with 2.16 - 2.28 release history, I'm kind of stressed thinking that 3.0 will be sort of a hell of new-everything where I won't know how to use almost anything.


I doubt it. Most of the applications' user interface will remain the same. The major change will lie in the window manager, and you could still use the old one, so no problem there.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Better and better
by another_sam on Thu 24th Sep 2009 13:53 UTC in reply to "RE: Better and better"
another_sam Member since:
2009-08-19

Glad to hear that!

Reply Score: 1

Comment by SJ87
by sj87 on Thu 24th Sep 2009 10:32 UTC
sj87
Member since:
2007-12-16

Other changes include no more icons on buttons and menus --

OOOOPPPS! No they don't. On every screenshot in the release notes there is an icon in every pushbutton. Not a single button without an icon.

Edited 2009-09-24 10:33 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by SJ87
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 24th Sep 2009 11:03 UTC in reply to "Comment by SJ87"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Or, you read the release notes:

GNOME menus and buttons have been standardised across all applications to not display icons by default. Menu items with dynamic objects, including applications, files or bookmarks, and devices are the exception and can display an icon. This change will standardise the look and feel of menus and present a cleaner interface to users.

Reply Score: 1

weird
by _xmv on Thu 24th Sep 2009 11:32 UTC
_xmv
Member since:
2008-12-09

So they remove icons and ...

http://library.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/2.28/figures/gnome-2.28...

Checkout the *size* of epiphany's icons.
must be like 8x bigger than firefox's.

yes ok, they're probably optional, but most people agreed that icons were a good thing, just needed to be smaller in some cases, or better placed.

I'd also add:

"One bug users may experience in Epiphany, due to the change to WebKit, is not being able to save logins and passwords in forms. "

Switching backend and lose such key functionality sounds rather stupid to me. Of course, everyone uses Firefox so they don't care. But that's one of the reasons I suppose.


"Due to improvements in VTE, GNOME Terminal users will notice much less memory is used."

That one is nice.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by twitterfire
by twitterfire on Thu 24th Sep 2009 11:53 UTC
twitterfire
Member since:
2008-09-11

The GNOME Web Browser, Epiphany, has switched to WebKit from Gecko for its rendering engine


So GNOME team are in fact switching to KDE's HTML rendering engine, KHTML. Grats guys.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by twitterfire
by WereCatf on Thu 24th Sep 2009 12:30 UTC in reply to "Comment by twitterfire"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

So GNOME team are in fact switching to KDE's HTML rendering engine, KHTML. Grats guys.

Webkit and KHTML are two different projects.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by twitterfire
by lemur2 on Thu 24th Sep 2009 12:43 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by twitterfire"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

So GNOME team are in fact switching to KDE's HTML rendering engine, KHTML. Grats guys.

Webkit and KHTML are two different projects.


It is actually more like Webkit is a derivative of KHTML.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Comment by twitterfire
by WereCatf on Thu 24th Sep 2009 12:50 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by twitterfire"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

It is actually more like Webkit is a derivative of KHTML.

Yes, Webkit was started with using KHTML as the base, but as far as I know they are very different beasts nowadays and don't really have anything in common anymore. As such they are two very different projects now.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by twitterfire
by lemur2 on Thu 24th Sep 2009 13:04 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by twitterfire"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

It is actually more like Webkit is a derivative of KHTML.

Yes, Webkit was started with using KHTML as the base, but as far as I know they are very different beasts nowadays and don't really have anything in common anymore. As such they are two very different projects now.


They always were different projects ... but that is not the meaning of "derivative".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derived_work

A derivative work pertaining to copyright law, is an expressive creation that includes major, copyright-protected elements of an original, previously created first work.

As long as webkit still includes some KHTML code, which it does, then it will be a derivative work of KHTML.

Edited 2009-09-24 13:05 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: Comment by twitterfire
by sbergman27 on Thu 24th Sep 2009 13:27 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by twitterfire"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

As long as webkit still includes some KHTML code, which it does, then it will be a derivative work of KHTML.

Well, in that case KDE badly needs to switch to a derivative work of KHTML too. More so than Gnome does, in fact.

Reply Score: 4

Epiphany
by spiderman on Thu 24th Sep 2009 12:33 UTC
spiderman
Member since:
2008-10-23

I'm curious, are there people using it anyway?
I don't get what is the point of Epiphany. We already have Midori as a fast webkit based browser and Firefox as a full featured browser.
Originally, when firefox didn't use gtk, Epiphany was smaller while still giving most of the features of Firefox. But now Firefox uses native widget and they've broken accessibility on Epiphany. It's no more than Midori, so what is the point?
Anyway, it looks like a great GNOME release.

Edited 2009-09-24 12:36 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Epiphany
by joekiser on Thu 24th Sep 2009 13:29 UTC in reply to "Epiphany"
joekiser Member since:
2005-06-30

I'm curious, are there people using it anyway?
I don't get what is the point of Epiphany. We already have Midori as a fast webkit based browser and Firefox as a full featured browser.
Originally, when firefox didn't use gtk, Epiphany was smaller while still giving most of the features of Firefox. But now Firefox uses native widget and they've broken accessibility on Epiphany. It's no more than Midori, so what is the point?
Anyway, it looks like a great GNOME release.


AFAIK, Mozilla has used gtk for the past ten years. Galeon and later Epiphany existed for the same reason that Camino and K-Meleon existed; the suite contained features that people didn't need, and it didn't look native on any platform. Firefox changed that (although one could make the argument that it is more bloated than Seamonkey these days). So Epiphany exists as something that the Gnome guys can maintain independently, and integrate as they see fit into their DE.

Midori is going to be part of Xfce.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Epiphany
by daveak on Fri 25th Sep 2009 18:45 UTC in reply to "Epiphany"
daveak Member since:
2008-12-29

I'm curious, are there people using it anyway?
I don't get what is the point of Epiphany. We already have Midori as a fast webkit based browser and Firefox as a full featured browser.


Midori is a user interface nightmare. (or at least was last time I had the package installed)


Originally, when firefox didn't use gtk, Epiphany was smaller while still giving most of the features of Firefox. But now Firefox uses native widget and they've broken accessibility on Epiphany. It's no more than Midori, so what is the point?
Anyway, it looks like a great GNOME release.


No No No. Firefox is not native GTK, it looks similar, but it is not using GTK. Evidence? Try the menus, submenus to be specific, move the mouse on a diagonal to select a submenu item from the main menu, GTK works right, Firefox doesn't. It may be using GDK to do the drawing at some level, but it isn't GTK.

Epiphany is much more than Midori, it is a well designed clean browser, as it was when it was Galeon, or at least as Galeon was before Epiphany was started due to developer differences.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Epiphany
by zdzichu on Sun 27th Sep 2009 15:14 UTC in reply to "Epiphany"
zdzichu Member since:
2006-11-07

I started using Epi long ago, before Fx gained rudimentary integration with desktop and tagged bookmarks. Epiphany is still better in following points:
- passwords are stored in system keyring
- zeroconf bookmarks are supported

Reply Score: 1

RE: GNOME 2.28 Released
by TusharG on Thu 24th Sep 2009 12:36 UTC
TusharG
Member since:
2005-07-06

Congratulations to GNome team. You are one step closer to good desktop experience. GNome 2 onwards you have shown a great improvement in desktop side. Also you are becoming day by day more popular. I'll also say that KDE is jump from 3.5 to 4 actually helped GNOME gain some user and now most the users are still sticking gnome and are not jumping back to KDE4.
The current work GNOME team is putting is assuring that KDE users are sticking to GNome.
Only thing that puzzles me is why one more brower (Epiphany) when we already have Firefox, Mozilla, Opera, Konqueror and soon Chrome...! Also there will be extensions and pluings to manage the Epiphany.

Reply Score: 1

Congratulations
by EmperoR on Thu 24th Sep 2009 14:01 UTC
EmperoR
Member since:
2009-09-16

Gongratulations Gnome! Another step towards GNOME 3. Can't see any big reason to change from KDE based on these upgrades but obviously that's beside the point.

Reply Score: 1

Nice hope Debian SID gets it soon
by Toad on Thu 24th Sep 2009 15:15 UTC
Toad
Member since:
2005-11-27

But I am more worried about Gnome 3.0
I think 6 month is far too short period for a new major release... If they release 3.0 in 6 month
1. Not future safe api's or concept
2. Not well enough tested
3. Not enough time to get radical changes in upstream libraries and such

I think a gnome 3.0 "deserve" 2 year development cycle, otherwise it will deliver too litle and to bad quality.

Reply Score: 4

Ikshaar Member since:
2005-07-14

But I am more worried about Gnome 3.0
I think 6 month is far too short period for a new major release... If they release 3.0 in 6 month ...

Next release is 2.30 not 3.0

Reply Score: 0

Toad Member since:
2005-11-27

"But I am more worried about Gnome 3.0
I think 6 month is far too short period for a new major release... If they release 3.0 in 6 month ...

Next release is 2.30 not 3.0
"

You are wrong, to quote gnome
"The final decision whether GNOME 2.30 (to be released in March 2010) or GNOME 2.32 (scheduled for September 2010) will become GNOME 3.0 will be made in early November 2009. This decision will be based on the progress of new and current GNOME applications and libraries and their impact on accessibility, stability and usability."

Gnome has said that probably 2.30 or maybe 2.32 is to be Gnome 3.0.

But what I really said was that a 6 month is a far too short period to develop a major version, not that Gnome 3.0 would be released in 6 month, which I strongly doubt.

Reply Score: 2

MamiyaOtaru Member since:
2005-11-11

If 3.0 is all about taking 2.30 (or 2.32) and calling it 3.0, what is the point? It's just the name? For marketing?

Just curious what there motivation is for a major version number jump when it could just as easily be 2.30. "They don't do major disruptive jumps like KDE" is fine, but again, if it isn't a major jump, why the major version number change?

Reply Score: 2

kelvin Member since:
2005-07-06

If 3.0 is all about taking 2.30 (or 2.32) and calling it 3.0, what is the point? It's just the name? For marketing?

Just curious what there motivation is for a major version number jump when it could just as easily be 2.30. "They don't do major disruptive jumps like KDE" is fine, but again, if it isn't a major jump, why the major version number change?

3.0 will remove deprecated functionality from the 2.x series, thus breaking backward compatibility. One motivation of this is to enable future developments which are not possible within the old 2.x infrastructure.

Reply Score: 2

What will happen to Metacity
by neticspace on Thu 24th Sep 2009 16:35 UTC
neticspace
Member since:
2009-06-09

Metacity is the current standard WM for GNOME. When GNOME Shell becomes the new standard, GNOME devs should completely remove any legacy of Metacity (calling Mutter) and make a faster and practical windowing system for the Shell.

Reply Score: 2